X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: f996b,45198f6278fb284a,start X-Google-Attributes: gidf996b,public X-Google-Thread: fbb9d,45198f6278fb284a,start X-Google-Attributes: gidfbb9d,public X-Google-Thread: f7789,45198f6278fb284a,start X-Google-Attributes: gidf7789,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 1994-12-12 15:32:54 PST Path: nntp.gmd.de!dearn!blekul11!idefix.CS.kuleuven.ac.be!ub4b!EU.net!Germany.EU.net! howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!sashimi.wwa.com!not-for-mail From: jittlov@erehwon..caltech.edu (Mike Jittlov) Newsgroups: alt.fan.mike-jittlov,alt.ascii-art,rec.arts.ascii Subject: Line: Happy Holiday Card (replay)(long) Date: 12 Dec 1994 12:23:57 -0600 Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 383 Sender: boba@gagme.wwa.com Approved: boba@wwa.com Message-ID: <3ci4ft$e8d@gagme.wwa.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: gagme.wwa.com Summary: The Perils of Posting Keywords: Jittlov, Xmas, posting, roasting Xref: nntp.gmd.de alt.fan.mike-jittlov:6006 alt.ascii-art:18025 rec.arts.ascii:3296 TV networks are all reshowing Xmas cartoons from the past 30 years, so I'm reshowing this, from its original posting/flame-fest last December: ---------------------------------------------------------------->8 clip & save I would like to apologize to all concerned for the following ascii scene and request for "Happy Holidays", "Happy New Year", and "Merry Xmas" as spoken around the world (temp list of 42 languages & general cultures): *%\@/*%$%*\@/*%$%*\@/*%$%*\@/*%$%*\^/*%$%*\@/*%$%*\@/*%$%*\@/*%$%*\@/*%* * X ! X ! X ! X ! . ! X ! X ! X ! X * * O O O O .|. O O O O * * -*- * * Athbhliain Faoi Mhaise! '|` _ Happy New Year! * * Inpakaramaana Vidumurai! *:* ("D Chag Sameach! * * Frohliche Weihnachten! * . * ~(=r Boas Festas! * * Sarbatori Fericite! ** ** .../__\ Gut Yontif! * * Joyous Solstice! *** o *** [MJ] Iyi YIllar! * * Mele Kalikimaka! *\ O * Hyvaeae Lomaa! * * Merry Christmas! ** \\ ** Wesolych Swiat! * * Happy Hanukkah! *** \\ *** Stastny Novy Rok! * * Pari Artsagourt! * o \\ * Kellemes Unnepeket! * * Shub Naya Baras! ** O \\** Blwyddyn Newydd Dda! * * Vesele Vanoce! ***\\ o \*** Ching Chi Shen Tan! * * Feliz Navidad! * \\ o * Felichan Jarfinon! * * Joyeux Noel! ** o \\ O ** Joy to the World * * Bom Natal! **** \\ o **** - And to All a * * God Jul! ** o o \\ o ** Good Night! * * Cheers! *** O \\ *** * * *:D o_ ***************************** e@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ * _ <' )~ ___ ##### _v_ @@@"""""""""""""* * /<~ ["""] V o [___] _@_ #####__|~|_ A @" ___ ___________ * %'= @|HHH|[~] U |\ /|/^^^\##[{}{}{}{](") ! II__[w] | [i] [z] | * %' ) /%|HHH||$|/V\|XXX|~~~~~##[}{}{}{}](:)<*> {======|_|~~~~~~~~~| * %(__6 |==D|HHH||$|\^/|/ \|=====##[{}{}{}{](:) V /oO--000'"`-OO---OO-' ************************************************************************ Thankfully, all public responses have been helpful and gracious. But back in my email mountain (population now 1286), I'm getting really flamed over this innocent request for holiday phrases of good cheer. xxxxxxx@egr.msu.edu: #SINCE WHEN DID THEY START LETTING TWITS INTO CAL TECH?!!??! MY GOD, YOU #ARE A MORON. GET A CLUE WILL YOU? (i hear they are on sale at walmart) #THERE A HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF LANGUAGES IN AFRICA!! THERE ARE OVER 80 #IN MY COUNTRY ALONE (ETHIOPIA). why dont you go read a book or something. a) "twit - n. a taunting allusion"...yeah, it could fit. Okay, fine. b) I'm not a Caltech student (the Dean said I was "too creative"). The university just has the terminal through which I access Internet. c) IMHO, calling your own god a moron reflects poorly on the believer, and could be risky if your deity has significant power. d) Wal-Mart's out of clues, after last week's big holiday sale. But I've collected a goodly number and am posting them below. Help yourself ;) Xxxx.Xxxxxx@imag.fr: How could you beleive that african is ONE language... ? Valid question. I don't. But I also don't know the names for the hundreds of languages in Africa, India, Asia and the Americas. My first list was assembled using the available soc.culture catagories -- in which there are many European groups, but only those general soc.culture.african, soc.culture.india, soc.culture.native groups. I did ask that readers please add their own cultures/languages (and to kindly speak up, instead of complaining about not being spoken for). Many people were very generous and warmly encouraging (especially the Esperanto, Nordic & Slavic groups, providing many phrases world-wide). Unfortunately, _none_ of the flamers cared to add a single language, or offer a single phrase in any of the neglected languages. ...Wait, I did get one sentence of sage advice: xxxxxxx@egr.msu.edu: # ever heard of a map? Why...that's brilliant! Therefore, in Andorra, they speak Andorrian! ...Mmmmm, no, it's Catalan. Okay, cut to Africa: In Kenya...Kenyan? Nope - English, Swahili, Bantu. In Malawi, it's Chichewa. Ethiopians speak Amharic, Cushitic, Semitic, Nilotic, and English. Nigerians officially speak English, but the nation has 250 more dialects. One emailer said Cameroon has 600 languages (and another said it's 257). Just because there is a country (like Austria, or Yugoslavia) on the map, with a NetGroup (ie, soc.culture.austria, soc.culture.yugoslavia), doesn't mean there's a special language for that country (Austrians speak German; Yugoslavs speak Serbian, Croation, Slovenian, Macedonian, Albanian, and Hungarian). Basque isn't even on the map (its speakers straddle the Pyrenees between Spain and France), but that language is renowned for its complexity. xxx@iexist.att.com: #Africa is a big continent with different languages and cultures. #Geez, people are really ignorant! Can't say, but I doubt any of the Geez-speaking folks would appreciate your comment. Geez is an ancient Semitic language spoken in Ethiopia. And the National Geographic Atlas states there are almost 2,800 languages worldwide -- 125 alone for the Aboriginal tribes of North and South America -- plus uncounted dialects (every Norwegian fjord seems to have its own). I am following this post with a list of 419 of the more common languages. If Yours is not on the list, please flame Roget's International Thesaurus. (Note: I'm a film/video-maker, not a linguist -- that was my father's gift. With his near-fluency in 80-90 languages & dialects, Dad could have filled out much of that list from memory. In lieu thereof, I've been posting for InterNet help. There's no big reason for this, I'm doing it in my spare time, all for free and open for everyone to use.) Xxxx@everest.cs.dartmouth.edu: #I don't have any idea whether you realize it, but your card which you #poseted on many news groups is o^?extremely offensive and I am shocked #that you posted it. I'm sure you know enough to be abkle^?^? tio Again, my apologies. You get flamed for printing transliterations that resemble U.S. obscenities (which probably works both ways). And you get flamed for printing real obscenities that some clever emailer sent especially to You -- instead of to a public netgroup. A word can also have its meaning changed, if you omit diacritical marks like an accent acute, accent grave, breve, cedilla, circumflex, hachek, umlaut, macron, tilde, and the rest (whose inclusion in this ascii format can sorely compromise the greeting's once-simple design). I'm also limited to this uni-cultural keyboard and system, which is unwieldy regarding non-English letters. A Scandinavian ring-A could be written aa or }, but {\aa} is the proper code. Then there are the entirely new letters, like a few in Icelandic, more in Cyrillic, a couple thousand more in Mandarin and Cantonese, etc. Phonetic (USA) spelling is my only recourse. An it aint alwiz purdy. XXXXXXX@civil.lan.mcgill.ca #Please note language of Nepal is NEPALI not Nepalese. You get further flamed (albeit politely) for misspellings of language names -- as well as arrogantly using the English form of Their Language (which varies greatly: German = Deutsche = Allemand = Nemetzky = Tysk). It's Magyar, not Hungarian. And it's even more fun when you're emailed three _different_ greeting versions in the _same_ language. #''Merry Christmas'', because not everyone believes in your Diety. I believe that's spelled "deity". "Diety" is more like `God - Lite' (lower in calories, easier to swallow). BTW, I'm not a Christian. Spiritual, but nonreligious. Too crazy. Just basic Golden Rule -- try to be more understanding, caring, and gentle. (Then get the h*ll out.) "Merry Christmas" was listed on the far side, because not all cultures celebrate it. Certainly not in the manner that Y*H*W*H intended, as exemplified here in the Land of E Pluribus Unum with the customary exchange of colorful neckties for last year's petrified fruitcake. So, my specific "Merry Christmas" request is dropped -- neutered into the less impassioned, politically-correct "Season's Greetings". #Christmas Angel flitting about your cheery old Christmas greetings #* Athbhliain Faoi Mhaise! '|` _ Happy New Year! #* Inpakaramaana Vidumurai! *:* ("D Chag Sameach! #* Frohliche Weihnachten! * . * ~(=r Boas Festas! #* Sarbatori Fericite! ** ** .../__\ Gut Yontif! #* Joyous Solstice! *** o *** [MJ] Iyi YIllar! #* Mele Kalikimaka! *\ O * Hyvaeae Lomaa! It's not an angel -- it's my ascii attempt at Snoopy riding his flying doghouse. But the cartoon character violates the dignity of religious observance, and Snoopy is mostly white, and American, so he's out. Xxxxx@xxxx.xxxxxx.xxx: #protest you placing our much older language beneath a nation which hass # #* Athbhliain Faoi Mhaise! '|` Happy New Year! #* Inpakaramaana Vidumurai! *:* Chag Sameach! #* Frohliche Weihnachten! * . * Boas Festas! #* Sarbatori Fericite! ** ** Gut Yontif! #* Joyous Solstice! *** o *** Iyi YIllar! #* Mele Kalikimaka! *\ O * Hyvaeae Lomaa! #* Merry Christmas! ** \\ ** Wesolych Swiat! #* Happy Hanukkah! *** \\ *** Stastny Novy Rok! #* Pari Artsagourt! * o \\ * Kellemes Unnepeket! It's really hard to please everybody here. Should these be arranged chronologically, alphabetically, east-to-west, north-to-south, by population, by length, or by protest volume? Calendars and customs also vary -- Jewish New Year was September 15, Chinese is February 10, Armenian new year is the same but Xmas is January 6... Too complex, it's best to leave this to the experts. All greetings are herewith temporarily erased, until after the next UN Council meeting. #is inappropriate to use a pagan yule-tree in your Christmas picture # . #* .|. #* -*- #* '|` #* *:* #* * . * #* ** ** #* *** o *** #* *\ O * #* ** \\ ** #* *** \\ *** Tell that to a million U.S. shops and shoppers, now decorating their Xmas trees. Also tell them to stop using other Pagan symbols, like mistletoe and holly plants, wassail bowls, and halos. Not to mention, the Cross (a _very_ old symbol, used worldwide, but not by Christians until the 7th century AD), and the Virgin Mary (possibly a little misunderstanding of Immaculate Conception, in the first translation of the Bible into Greek, plus misreading the original Hebrew _almah_ (young woman of marriageable age) as _betullah_ (virgin) -- but I defer to Net Scholars for full historical clarification). BTW, "Xmas-time" was a Pagan festival long before Xtianity, and a traditional winter solstice date for many non-Christian cultures (including the Hopi, Chumash, and other Pre-American tribes). It was still a radical Jewish sect, when Dec 25th was being celebrated by the Romans as the Rebirth of Sol Invictus Day (the emperor/sun-god consolidated with the Iranian cult of Mithras). The popular holiday was Christianized in 333 AD, commemorating Jesus of Nazareth's birth, even though nobody knew the original date. The earliest placing of the Nativity was by Clement of Alexandria (as May 20), and the most recent (based on Biblical references) is sunset, September 23, 7 BC. The tree tradition may have been adopted from the ceremonial evergreens used in Saturnalia and Kalend fests for preceding centuries. But it was also reputedly begun by Christian Saint Boniface; and/or Protestant Martin Luther; and/or Adam taking a sprout from the Tree of Knowledge when he and Eve left Eden; and/or Isaiah's "the glory of Lebanon shall come unto you - the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box tree, to beautify the place of My Sanctuary." Amen & PTL. But I have seeeen the light -- the Xmas Yule Tree is too botanically biased for a globally-acceptable greeting. It is hereby X-ed out. And the little Xmas star, too. #think a Japanese movie monster is nota little ofensive in your "Happy #* _ ___ _v_ @@@"""""""""""""* #* /<~ ["""] V o [___] _@_ ____|~|_ A @" ___ ___________ #* %'= @|HHH|[~] U |\ /|/^^^\ [{}{}{}{](") ! II__[w] | [i] [z] | #* %' ) /%|HHH||$|/V\|XXX|~~~~~| [}{}{}{}](:)<*> {======|_|~~~~~~~~~| #* %(__6 |==D|HHH||$|\^/|/ \|=====| [{}{}{}{](:) V /oO--000'"`-OO---OO-' Alright, Godzilla is out. (..Holy Jee-Zeus, you try to give the flamers and politicians a little representation...) #just like you Americans to symbolize Christmas with material possessions XXXXXXX@U.WASHINGTON.EDU: #What a good old jolly idea you had! It's such a happy world, we're #all feeling so Christmassy... this little Christmas card is all that #people around the world are missing for perfect and complete happiness. #Take the Bosnians, for example. Or the Tibetans, or the East Timorese, #the Somalis, the Cambodians, the Angolans, the Palestinians, the African #* ___ _v_ @@@"""""""""""""* #* ["""] V o [___] _@_ ____|~|_ A @" ___ ___________ #* @|HHH|[~] U |\ /|/^^^\ [{}{}{}{](") ! II__[w] | [i] [z] | #* /%|HHH||$|/V\|XXX|~~~~~| [}{}{}{}](:)<*> {======|_|~~~~~~~~~| #* |==D|HHH||$|\^/|/ \|=====| [{}{}{}{](:) V /oO--000'"`-OO---OO-' Oh shucky darns :p ...Forgive me, I am so insulated here in harmonious & crime-free Los Angeles. But you're right, using international bandwidth to convey optimistic sentiments and playful visions is short-sighted and pollyannish, when so many governments and corporations are chess-gaming citizens at each other's throats. It's time to make a difference. The little ascii toys and other gifts are now being removed from the scene, and emailed for your more educated distribution to the ascii-less and strife-torn regions around the planet. All I ask for is world peace. * @@@"""""""""""""* * @" ___ ___________ * II__[w] | [i] [z] | * <*> {======|_|~~~~~~~~~| * /oO--000'"`-OO---OO-' ************************************************************************ And I'd better remove the train, before I get flamed by rec.railroad for the wrong wheels, and placing the passenger car after a steam engine. * <*> * ************************************************************************ Which doesn't leave us with much... a border of asterisks, and a kiss from Meriday Beth. Oh well...some may say that's celebration enough ;) See the New and Expanded Listing of 419 Languages on a separate posting. And I've decided to completely revise my holiday ascii picture with a symbol more in keeping with the current riptide of InterNet sentiment. ----------------------------------------------------------------->8 cut *%\@/*%$%*\@/*%$%*\@/*%$%*\@/*%$%*<*>*%$%*\@/*%$%*\@/*%$%*\@/*%$%*\@/%* * X ! X ! X ! X ! ! X ! X ! X ! X * * O O O O O O O O * * * * \|/ , \|/ * * _..-'( _ __/| )`-.._ * * ./'. '||\\. \`O.o' .//||` .`\.. * * ./'.|'.|||||\\|.. =(_ _)= ..|//||||`.`|.`\. * * ./'..|'.||||||||\`````-. ,U. ,-'''''/||( )|||.`|..`\. * * ./'.||'.||||~||||||||||||.V V.|||||||||||||||||.`||.`\. * * /'|||'.||||( >|||||||||||||. .||||||||||||||||||^||.`|||`\ * * '.|||'.|||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||( )|.`|||.` * * '.||| |||||||||||/' ``\||`|( )|'||/'' `\||||< ||| |||.` * * |/' \./' `\|/ \||\ /\V/ \|/' ~`\./ `\| * * V V V V `||\\ ` V V V * * ` ` ` ' || \\ _ ' ' ' * * (( \\// * * \\ \/ * * /_\ * * " " * * * ****************************************************************jittlov Coming Next: "Happy Birthday!" -- "Have a Nice Day!" -- "Bah Humbug!" -- as spoken around the world!! And be sure to check the new NewsGroup: alt.flame.happyholiday.die.die ________________________________________ __ _ _ __ Mike Jittlov - Wizard, etc _ _=/===\_= _! =_==\_ =/== Hollywood, CA 90026-2714 =============/= \^ _=======/==== jittlov@gumby.cs.caltech.edu _=(: May All Your==_V\==Book Dreams <& alt.fan.mike-jittlov> ==and Pine Wishes=======Comb True:) ================================================================== Copyright 1993 by Mike Jittlov (as if this provides any protection) "Never eat more than you can lift." -- Miss Piggy Post-Post: ~~~~~~~~~ Newsgroups: all of the above Subject: "Happy Holidays" - Apology for apology Summary: Crosspost roasting on a mega-flame...: #1 You made disparaging remarks about fruitcake. Now I know that I'm in #2 How dare You utilize Bill the Cat as a matrix for a vampire bat???? #3 that your posting is typical of the pagan secular humanist satanist #3 politically correct crap that liberals are imposing on everyone else ...but seriously: #4 THESE PEOPLE PAY MONEY FOR EVERY CHARACTER YOU POST #4 so please *THINK* before posting *HUGE* files. Major faux pas, pardonnez-moi/chiedo scusa/dispe'nseme/desculpe/dovolte scuzati-ma(/entschuldigen sie/excuseer/ursa"kta/undskyld/senkulpigu min izvinite/przepraszam/bocsa'natot ke'rek/anteeksi/vabandage/dovano'kite ludzu atvainot/me sin-xore'te/me" falni/o"zur dilerim/samehni/:( - and all those who emailed me my full 361-line post to emphasize that. #5 you understand that peoples are paying for downloading ymessages, and #5 posting lengthy, non-related issues is considered as extremly unpolite? My experience is limited to this system, and I didn't realize everyone doesn't first see a listing of authors, their subjects, and line-lengths, and then have the freedom to choose which post (if any) to read. #6 Please repost the original apology. I found it very entertaining. No way! That was my last mega-crosspost, ever!! (...Until the Voices tell me the Big One is due, and then I crosspost the whole InterNet!!1) - Have a good one. Or not. Whatever. Aloha (etc ;) ___________________________________________ __ ._`.*.'_._ ____ ____ Mike Jittlov - Wizard, etc . . + * .o o.* `.`. +. . Hollywood, California, USA ' * . ' ' |\^/| `. * . * ` jittlov@gumby.cs.caltech.edu (: May All Your \V/ Good Dreams . + <& alt.fan.mike-jittlov> and Fine Wishes /_\ Come True:) .`. ================================================ _/ \_ ============::::. * Copyright 1994 by Mike Jittlov (for all the protection that provides)