Subj : For you SBBS Sysops o To : Gamgee From : Accession Date : Sat Jun 29 2024 11:20 pm On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 18:14:00 -0500, you wrote: G> Yes, I would agree with all of that. Graphics drivers almost certainly G> the cause of such problems, and many others. Proprietary graphics drivers, to be specific. This was before there were any open source drivers out there. When open source drivers were introduced, there were problems at first, but then most of the graphic related problems went away. G> I guess it's mostly the (assumed) philosophy that "let us manage all G> your startup processes the way we think is best, and you don't worry G> about the details". I know that isn't quite accurate, because you can G> of course tweak systemd like most anything else, but that's as close as G> I can come to a reason. I like to know exactly what's happening and G> have as much control over that as I can. Another claim is that systemd G> does things "in parallel all at once" and thereby reduces boot time. I G> don't care one little bit about that, as I don't reboot often and don't G> care if it takes 12 seconds, or 14 seconds. Yeah, I don't care about losing a couple seconds on boot time, whatsoever. I make just about every one of my systemd startup scripts myself, so in a sense, I'm pushing the 'what to do', and systemd takes care of the "how to do it". I guess I'm all for moving forward as long as it doesn't take away from the original goals. G> Yes, I've toyed with Manjaro a few times and liked it OK. I suppose G> those are the two most popular desktops, with Gnome only being there G> because of Ubuntu, IMHO. I used to love Gnome but it became so G> dumbed-down looking (I think it looks like a Fisher-Price toy) that I G> moved (years ago) to XFCE and love it. Kind of Gnome-ish but light and G> fast, and very configurable. Gnome is definitely different from how it used to be. Once they began catering to tablets and touchscreens, I lost interest. However, nowadays, they definitely still do that, but have relaxed the focus they used to have on that a bit to continue to do actual desktop environment kind of stuff. I didn't mind it, and to be honest, I may have liked it a little bit better (aesthetically) than whatever direction they went with KDE. The bouncing icon next to the mouse pointer was cool 10 years ago, not now. The default window borders aren't all that exciting. However, programs like Konsole I like better than Gnome Terminal, Konversation for IRC, KTorrent, K3b, Kate, and a couple others are better than the Gnome variants, if Gnome even has a variant of some of those. G> Next time you're bored, spin up a VM with MX Linux (xfce desktop) and G> see what you think. It's about the only one I like any more. Thanks for the heads up, I've downloaded the XFCE as well as the Fluxbox (brings back memories) variants, and will give them a shot in the morning and get back to you. The only issue I see is that it's Debian based. The first thing from Debian that turns me off is that it's usually so far behind the times (I get it, their main focus is stability, but damn). For example, MX XFCE 64bit uses a 6.6 kernel, and here on Archlinux I'm using 6.9.7 currently, and it's rock solid stable. *shrug* G> I use Linux as my daily driver, on mulitiple desktop/laptops, so it's G> important to me. Servers/BBS run on Slackware, and even my daily laptop G> has been Slackware for many years. Transitioning to a new laptop and G> decided to go with MX Linux, as it's just less work. The only two G> Windows computers in the house are my work laptop and my wife's desktop. G> :-) Understood completely. My main PC here is Windows, just because I have a Steam library that would cripple most people here. I still like to play AAA games, and Linux just hasn't convinced them to port their stuff just yet. Anything BBS/FTN/server related though, goes straight to my server machine, running nothing but Linux. I may have a 'tinkering' FreeBSD VM just to mess around, but it will most likely never go further than that. Regards, Nick .... Take my advice, I don't use it anyway. --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (723:1/1) þ Synchronet þ _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) .