_______ __ _______
| | |.---.-..----.| |--..-----..----. | | |.-----..--.--.--..-----.
| || _ || __|| < | -__|| _| | || -__|| | | ||__ --|
|___|___||___._||____||__|__||_____||__| |__|____||_____||________||_____|
on Gopher (inofficial)
(HTM) Visit Hacker News on the Web
COMMENT PAGE FOR:
(HTM) Pyspread â Pythonic Spreadsheet
pasc1878 wrote 10 hours 40 min ago:
There used to be a python spreadsheet that worked as a spreadsheet -
Resolver One.
It was .Net based but did not make enough money. I wonder if done now
there would be enough support to open source something like this.
For a review see
(HTM) [1]: https://blog.jonudell.net/2007/09/27/first-look-at-resolver-an...
cognomano wrote 13 hours 6 min ago:
> Execution order between cells is not guaranteed to be stable and may
differ for different versions of Python.
golem14 wrote 20 hours 8 min ago:
I'm curious how it compares to emacs' calc / spreadsheet mode in org.
Looks like it is
a) a stand-alone X11 app (not easily runnable on macos)
b) using python instead of elisp.
Is that roughly accurate ? I can't easily understand from the post.
JosephRedfern wrote 20 hours 22 min ago:
Interestingly, Giles Thomas (the guy behind Python Anywhere) originally
developed a Pythonic Spreadsheet application, called Resolver One, and
then iterated to a a web-based version, called Project Dirigible.
Python Anywhere eventually span out from Project Dirigible when they
realised that it was mostly being used for "generic" Python development
rather than being used as a spreadsheet. There's an interesting
write-up on this evolution here: [1] , and a demo of Dirigible here:
[2] .
Project dirigible ended up being open sourced here: [3] .
(HTM) [1]: https://blog.pythonanywhere.com/197/
(HTM) [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZoIp-5NaiQ
(HTM) [3]: https://github.com/pythonanywhere/dirigible-spreadsheet
Aliyekta wrote 20 hours 23 min ago:
the api page doesn't seem to work.
breckognize wrote 20 hours 42 min ago:
Shameless plug: If you have bigger data sets, check out [1] We scale up
to hundreds of millions of rows and have native Python support.
You can define functions in Python and call them as formulas from any
spreadsheet cell. We seamlessly marshal Pandas dataframes from Python
land to spreadsheet land and back. [1] We're also hosted and support
real time collaboration like Google Sheets. We reimplemented the Excel
formula language. We connect directly to Postgres, S3, Snowflake,
Redshift, and Databricks. And the first workbook is free. [1]
/docs/code-window
(HTM) [1]: https://rowzero.io
(HTM) [2]: https://rowzero.io/docs/code-window
blagie wrote 16 hours 59 min ago:
Shameless suggestion: Instead of one free workbook, make unlimited
free workbooks, but unusable for corporate settings. I'd recommend
binary sharing:
- Only I have access (private / personal use)
- The universe has access (open-source use)
But one free workbook still beats the typical 30-day trial.
justin_oaks wrote 22 hours 11 min ago:
I'd like to give praise for the "Target User Group" section on the
homepage.
Not only does it say what users the app is for, but also who it is NOT
for. I think this kind of information is invaluable in deciding whether
or not to use or suggest an app.
I can understand if app developers want EVERYBODY to user their app
(whether or not its the best for the job) or if the app developer just
doesn't want to take the time to write out who the app is NOT for. But
I will praise those who do include that information.
worldwidelies wrote 13 hours 24 min ago:
I found a typo in the "Target User Group" section.
Original Sentence:
> Furthermore, Peter is worried about algorithmic errors and
calculation inaccuracies is his complicated tables.
Correction:
> Furthermore, Peter is worried about algorithmic errors and
calculation inaccuracies in his complicated tables.
okigan wrote 17 hours 29 min ago:
After reading the parent comment - I thought to myself âso whatâ.
But after reading it on the product page - I fully agree: seeing
clearly the targeted personas and out of scope usage significantly
elevates my trust in the product and the team behind it.
Have not used the software, but now I want to try
behnamoh wrote 19 hours 27 min ago:
And yet, it is not available on macOS, presumably THE platform where
that target user group lives.
hanche wrote 9 hours 38 min ago:
Not quite true, as others have pointed out. However, the
installation instructions say this:
> While there have been reports that pyspread can be used on OS X,
OS X is currently unsupported (can you help?).
I think that would make many non-technical users uncomfortable.
jhbadger wrote 12 hours 53 min ago:
pip install pyspread works just fine on macOS (assuming you have
pip and python installed, which anyone who would be interested in
having a python-enabled spreadsheet would have).
yazzku wrote 15 hours 55 min ago:
And what makes you think that?
tazu wrote 15 hours 4 min ago:
I wish Stackoverflow included "daily operating system" in their
surveys, but I'd wager that 50%+ of professional developers use
MacOS. For many reasons probably, but for me it's simply because
it's a nice BSD system that translates well to Linux servers
(prod).
throwaway2037 wrote 14 hours 8 min ago:
> but I'd wager that 50%+ of professional developers use MacOS
Ok, I will take that bet against you. If you think it true,
then you are living in a bubble. Probably 90% use MS Windows
with no choice, because they work in a big enterprise that uses
MS Office and Exchange/Outlook. For enterprise email, is there
any competition at this point? I don't know any.
tazu wrote 11 hours 51 min ago:
> If you think it true, then you are living in a bubble.
This is probably true. I only really talk to US startup devs.
throwaway2037 wrote 7 hours 58 min ago:
In that case, I would take your side of the bet! US
startup devs appears (from HN) to have pretty liberal
hardware policies. If choosing a laptop, many will choose
the best hardware, which is currently a MacBook.
Atotalnoob wrote 2 hours 22 min ago:
Startups donât employ the majority of engineers.
Windows would still dominate.
Edit: I canât read. Disregard.
TheCleric wrote 20 hours 37 min ago:
I like it and I'll take it a step further. I think this is important
information for a developer to admit to THEMSELVES at least. Being
all things to all people is a route straight to burnout for an open
source project.
dang wrote 1 day ago:
Related. Others?
Pyspread â Spreadsheet with deep Python integration - [1] - Feb 2022
(1 comment)
Pyspread â Spreadsheet implementation in Python, cells return Python
objects - [2] - April 2014 (1 comment)
Show HN: Spreadsheets using Python - Have you seen this? - [3] - Nov
2010 (47 comments)
PySpread: A spreadsheet that accepts a pure python expressions - [4] -
Aug 2008 (3 comments)
(HTM) [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30426053
(HTM) [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7593603
(HTM) [3]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1884896
(HTM) [4]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=265132
eigenket wrote 1 day ago:
I'm also interested in the least pythonic spreadsheet, has anyone
worked on that?
voxelghost wrote 12 hours 39 min ago:
I heard microsoft made an attempt
eigenket wrote 7 hours 37 min ago:
That was the joke, I guess it wasn't appreciated ;)
brudgers wrote 1 day ago:
Related? Python in Excel:
(HTM) [1]: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/get-started-with-py...
mhh__ wrote 22 hours 22 min ago:
Awful. They don't seem to understand excel anymore.
If you want to see this done properly (on some limit) look at pyxll.
ptx wrote 1 day ago:
Not actually "in Excel", though. The Python code runs on Microsoft's
servers (they say in the introduction) and Excel is just a client.
There's no reason they couldn't embed CPython in Excel, but maybe the
intention was for the online version of Excel to have feature parity
without having to compile Python to JavaScript?
cyanydeez wrote 16 hours 26 min ago:
the intention is to lock in orgs to their cloud services. This is a
value-add. They really know that Excel, Word are "feature complete"
and the only way they're going to make money on it is by harvesting
and locking in the users.
Kim_Bruning wrote 1 day ago:
nix run nixpkgs#pyspread
Not saying Nix(os) Is The Way, but sometimes it does ok.
just_testing wrote 17 hours 27 min ago:
I just downloaded nixos for WSL2. Way easier than I thought. Thank
you!
ingenieroariel wrote 1 day ago:
I did not believe you and just typed it on OSX, half a minute later
the app was ready for me to use.
nix run nixpkgs#pyspread
[0/1 built, 3/113/132 copied (1311.8/1721.6 MiB), 280.4/300.7 MiB
DL] fetching llvm-16.0.6 from [1]
(HTM) [1]: https://cache.nixos.org
(HTM) [2]: https://pasteboard.co/P1eh7B7W8C9R.png
adolfopd wrote 1 day ago:
Eneble number line to 2^25 or minimal 2^22 by default.
Kill many user from Excel limitation 2^20!!
regularfry wrote 1 day ago:
Shame it's GPL3. That counts it out of being included in FreeCAD,
which I can't help but feel would be an improvement on the current
spreadsheet workbench.
dfox wrote 1 day ago:
It seems to not be a true spreadsheet with dependency tracking and
instead it recomputes everything after each change. Whis probably
kind-of obvious as how to track the dependencies for arbitrary Python
code is not that obvious. But without resorting to some static analysis
magic one could just track accesses to the magic S[] during the
excecution of the cell, its value cannot depend on anything else than
what was accessed during the evaluation.
movpasd wrote 1 day ago:
One issue with this is that arbitrary Python code can have arbitrary
side-effects.
Your suggestion reminds me a lot of fine-grained reactivity like in
SolidJS, which makes sense, since spreadsheets basically operate on
reactive programming. Some great articles by Ryan Carnatio on the
topic.
The side-effects thing comes in if a user puts in some side-effect in
a dependent cell, which is equivalent to adding side-effects in a
memo in reactive-speak.
dgacmu wrote 1 day ago:
That gets broken by constructs like sum(all of column 5) when new
rows or columns are added.
(It's very similar to the problem of locking in databases)
cmcconomy wrote 1 day ago:
what if you wrap all your cell contents with a memoize
mewpmewp2 wrote 1 day ago:
Or maybe worst case allow user to add deps like in React useEffect.
WillAdams wrote 1 day ago:
I would really like to see a distribution which puts all the best
alternative software together:
- pyspread for a spreadsheet
- LyX for a word-processor
- OpenSCAD for a 3D modeler
- TkzEdt (or ipe) for 2D drawing
&c.
(and I'd be interested in suggestions for similar software for other
tasks, esp. presentations and database work)
throwaway2037 wrote 14 hours 8 min ago:
Debian should do.
stainablesteel wrote 15 hours 9 min ago:
anything that replaces powerpoint?
WillAdams wrote 6 hours 7 min ago:
If you're a hardcore LaTeX user there's beamer.
I think there are a plug-ins for Inkscape for presentations.
TheCleric wrote 20 hours 36 min ago:
I tend to use AlternativeTo for that.
For example:
(HTM) [1]: https://alternativeto.net/software/pyspread/
diath wrote 1 day ago:
But why do you even need a distro to begin with just to ship certain
software set? Install Arch/Gentoo and install whatever is your
preferred software of choice, or hell, you can even do that on any
other distro.
cryptonector wrote 17 hours 24 min ago:
A pkg group is enough.
comte7092 wrote 23 hours 8 min ago:
The value a dedicated distro provides here is that you donât have
to do the legwork to research and find the best tools.
As power users we may want to do that ourselves, but a lot of
people place value in having that curation done for them.
WillAdams wrote 1 day ago:
I think it would be an interesting thing for a distro to
market/focus on, and it might help to find/identify/encourage
additional such software.
everforward wrote 21 hours 58 min ago:
Isnât that basically package groups (or whatever the
district-specific terms are)?
Eg Im pretty sure Ubuntu Desktop has some kind of
âProductivityâ package group that includes a word processor
and spreadsheets and an email client and what not. Iâm pretty
sure itâs selected by default when you do a full desktop
install. I donât recall what the actual software is, but I
would imagine LibreOffice.
I would agree with OP that it doesnât really make sense for a
distro, though. People really want to âmake a distroâ for
some reason so we end up with silly shit like Kubuntu (Ubuntuâ¦
with KDE pre-installed).
My general rule of thumb is if I can point the distroâs OS
package manager to the distroâs upstream (ie Ubuntu for
Kubuntu, or Debian for Ubuntu) and everything works or mostly
works, it should be a script or apt repo and not a distro.
There are way too many âUbuntu but with a different default
DEâ distros that could really just be a modified install ISO or
post-install script.
LeifCarrotson wrote 1 day ago:
KiCad for electronics development.
Blender for 3D graphics.
Gimp for photo editing.
Inkscape for illustration.
Though I'd recommend FreeCAD over OpenSCAD as a 3D modeling tool for
most users as an alternative to traditional CAD tools...and therein
lies the distro problem.
johnmaguire wrote 23 hours 14 min ago:
Gimp is really not great for photo editing IMO - it really shines
at photo manipulation. (i.e. it is Photoshop, not Lightroom.)
For RAW development (a la Lightroom), DarkTable and RawTherapee
exist. I've only tried the former, and found it incredibly
difficult to use.
I also prefer Krita for digital illustration (though maybe that's
unfair - it's best at digital painting specifically.) Of course, if
you need vector support, Inkscape is the obvious answer.
synergy20 wrote 1 day ago:
drawio for diagrams
WillAdams wrote 1 day ago:
Good points.
I was trying to think of unusual programs with non-standard
approaches.
Perhaps rather than FreeCAD either BRL-CAD, or maybe the recently
announced Dune 3D: [1] Also, Blender w/ CADsketcher (the Solvespace
solver) is quite good: [2] Though maybe Solvespace would be a
better match?
(HTM) [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40228068
(HTM) [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34856383
(HTM) [3]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33571555
heggy wrote 1 day ago:
When would you take OpenSCAD over Blender?
constantcrying wrote 23 hours 8 min ago:
Blender can't do CAD. At least it can't do what you would want to
do in a CAD program.
The most important difference is that Blender operates on meshes,
CAD programs don't.
gibspaulding wrote 1 day ago:
OpenSCAD is really good for parametric designs. One of the first
things I designed in OpenSCAD was a bicycle sprocket where you
could input how many teeth you wanted, link length, how thick, etc.
and OpenSCAD would generate the sprocket according to those
parameters. I recall seeing a while back that blender was adding
support for this kind of thing so I'm sure it's possible, but it
was very intuitive in OpenSCAD.
For any large project I'm sure Blender (or FreeCAD) would be a
better choice, but as someone with some programming background just
starting out, OpenSCAD feels way more accessible.
WillAdams wrote 1 day ago:
I've tried a lot of 3D software over the years, and OpenSCAD has
been the one I've been most successful with (along w/ Carbide
Create, but I work for that company....)
Currently working on a library which makes the two work together:
[1] (which is currently quite primitive/basic, and even when
fully developed is not likely to be used by anyone else)
(HTM) [1]: https://github.com/WillAdams/gcodepreview
bitdivision wrote 1 day ago:
Blender wasn't originally designed to be used for CAD type
applications. It's possible of course, but you're likely better off
with something specifically meant for precision CAD models.
Specifically for 3d printing, I don't think blender is ideal.
I think most programmers like OpenSCAD - what better way to make
parametric CAD models than by writing code?
giancarlostoro wrote 1 day ago:
My understanding is that with CAD software you can go backwards and
have (near?) infinite edit history, in a way you cannot with
Blender. Which makes it very, very useful.
constantcrying wrote 23 hours 4 min ago:
This is called parametric design. Since CAD programs do not
operate on meshes, this allows you to e.g. change the dimension
on some part and have the rest adjust accordingly.
How well this works depends on the situation, if changing a
parameter causes new faces to appear on the object this is
usauayvwry difficult to handle, even for commercial CAD programs.
spott wrote 1 day ago:
A lot of cad software actually has an editable history: you can
go back 100 steps and modify a dimension or a step and have the
rest of the model updated to take that new dimension into
account.
I wouldnât work with any cad software that didnât have that
ability.
DrNosferatu wrote 1 day ago:
I couldn't understand what's the datatype of each cell.
- How to use NumPy and others?
tichiian wrote 1 day ago:
Python is a bad language for this, because one-liners are awkward.
Multiline code is possible but ugly due to indentation-based syntax.
Brace-based languages would be far more suitable here.
toss1 wrote 1 day ago:
Are you suggesting a flavor of Lisp? Because THAT could be very nice
in a cell-format.
hodapp wrote 23 hours 1 min ago:
There is SIAG (Scheme in a Grid) that has been around for ages:
(HTM) [1]: https://siag.nu/siag/
behnamoh wrote 19 hours 28 min ago:
I like Lisp but why are almost ALL Lisp-related websites so ugly?
They still have the 90s look and feel.
amias wrote 1 day ago:
this seems like a huge reinvention of jupyiter , i really hope they
aren't going to recreate all the bugs.
cdrini wrote 1 day ago:
I think one major difference between spreadsheets and Jupyter
notebooks is state/dependency graph. In a notebook, cells don't
depend on each other. They can be run many times, and the order
they're run in matters. This is one of the major gotchas with
notebooks. With spreadsheets, they're generally deterministic. There
is no notion of "cell order", cells are recomputed automatically
depending on the dependency graph between the cells. This results in
a pretty big user experience difference.
ziml77 wrote 1 day ago:
But according to other comments here, that's unfortunately not how
this spreadsheet program works.
cdrini wrote 1 day ago:
Yes in that it doesn't appear to use a dependency graph to track
recomputes; it recomputes everything on a cell change (according
to another commenter anyways). But the UX effect is still the
same in that the user never has to think about cell order, and
every cell is always consistent with each other.
ssl232 wrote 1 day ago:
I see it uses numerical designations for both the columns and rows
allowing indexing like a 2D matrix. Nice. One of the many annoyances of
Excel is the alphabetic columns that make even less sense beyond 26.
cyanydeez wrote 16 hours 28 min ago:
some of us have some logical dyslexia, so when I see a tuple of
numerics, even if you say (this is the row, this is the column, this
is the table), when I'm manipulating references, or finding a tuple
in the dark, I easily mix up the order of the bits, because lets face
it, it's arbitrary.
So, while your logic makes sense, it voids humanity in a rather stark
way which I suppose is fine, but it's not like I'm incapable of
programming. I just have to be careful about how I name variables and
use keywords in python more often than args.
tichiian wrote 1 day ago:
That A1 mode is Excel "Baby-Mode", you can switch to R1C1 mode in
settings. Things are far easier then, and more sane.
His Excel-lence also recommends this:
(HTM) [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxBg4sMusIg
mhh__ wrote 22 hours 23 min ago:
Never seen anyone actually use this.
The "real" answer is to use names and tables. That and generally
not having data flying up down left and right.
steine65 wrote 22 hours 11 min ago:
Agreed! Hard cell references should rarely be used. Names for
metadata variables (eg. Current_Month) and tables for datasets.
tichiian wrote 18 hours 49 min ago:
Yes. But many parts of excel don't support those. E.g.
conditional formatting just doesn't deal with names.
Also, when you need names, it is a sign to reach for a proper
programming enviroment like Delphi or Lazarus.
falcor84 wrote 1 day ago:
Baby mode?! As a full grown adult, I find the cognitive load of the
base 26 arithmetic of "what column is an offset of 8 to the right
of AW" to be exactly what I needed to fully forget about what I
came there to do in the first place
epcoa wrote 1 day ago:
Babyâs lack object persistence and a formed theory of mind,
seems to check out.
zero-sharp wrote 1 day ago:
I wonder what the performance is like?
oulipo wrote 1 day ago:
I guess it would be "easy" to compile to WASM using pyodide or such,
and have a full in-browser version? might be cool
codingglass wrote 1 day ago:
Looks like the interface/windowing is built on Qt/PyQt. QT does have
a WebAssembly build, but I don't think it's all that simple of a
transition.
voxelghost wrote 1 day ago:
I am Jacks endless disappointment.
j/k - it looks nice - how would you compare/position it against
something like jupyter lab?
metadat wrote 1 day ago:
What is the meme behind this reference: "I am Jack's endless
disappointment"?
I searched the web but still unclear.
fishyjoe wrote 23 hours 18 min ago:
(HTM) [1]: https://www.quora.com/What-does-Im-Jacks-complete-lack-of-...
voxelghost wrote 12 hours 43 min ago:
This is of course the correct answer to the question. But
additionally, I made the joke because I somewhat Identified with
the 'Jack' use case mentioned in one of the pages on the
PySpreads site
fab13n wrote 1 day ago:
the magic power of spreadsheets is that they encourage improvisation,
and it probably applies to that one.
you have only one data structure (the 2D table), data types are
super-weak, there are no variable names... all of this guarantee a
maintenance nightmare, and rightfully scares developers. But it's
also a very low barrier to entry. You've got data, you paste them
into the grid, and you start toying with them, before having figured
anything about them.
That's an amazing superpower, when targeting non-developers, and
that's why Excel is the most used programming language over the
world, by far: it's probably got an order of magnitude more users
than there are trained developers in the world.
WillAdams wrote 1 day ago:
and _that_ is why I'm still very sad that Lotus Improv didn't make
it in the marketplace --- gathering all the formulae into one pane
was _incredible_ for organization and providing a single top-level
view of what a spreadsheet was doing.
I really wish Flexisheet would get to a usable point, or that
Quantrix wasn't so expensive.
kwhitefoot wrote 1 day ago:
I tried to install, and discovered yet again why I fell out of love
with Python.
Executing:
pip3 install -r requirements.txt
gave this error:
" Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/tmp/tmprhazpypn", line 126, in
prepare_metadata_for_build_wheel
hook = backend.prepare_metadata_for_build_wheel
AttributeError: module 'sipbuild.api' has no attribute
'prepare_metadata_for_build_wheel'
...
ERROR: Command errored out with exit status 1: /usr/bin/python3
/tmp/tmprhazpypn prepare_metadata_for_build_wheel /tmp/tmpl72s0sfd
Check the logs for full command output."
I'm on Linux Mint 19.
pasc1878 wrote 20 hours 53 min ago:
Compare this with the comments above re nix where it just ran -
although to get a python app to build on nix is a pain but at least
only one person has to do it.
globular-toast wrote 23 hours 30 min ago:
You're not really supposed to pip install applications. pip is a
developer tool. There is pipx which is great, but I still think it's
a developer tool. It's annoying when projects say to pip install
stuff. It's never the right thing to do.
resource_waste wrote 1 day ago:
Stop using debian-family.
Dealing with outdated/bugs is just a regular day under the guise of
'stable'.
The only reason you even are using Mint is because conical did a
marketing trick sending free CDs in 2000s.
ceving wrote 1 day ago:
Debian has it out of the box:
$ LANG=C apt-cache policy pyspread
pyspread:
Installed: 2.2.3-1
Candidate: 2.2.3-1
Version table:
*** 2.2.3-1 500
500 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian trixie/main amd64
Packages
500 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian trixie/main i386
Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
kwhitefoot wrote 1 day ago:
Thank you!
sorenjan wrote 1 day ago:
Use pipx to install applications instead. It even works on Windows.
> pipx install pyspread
installed package pyspread 2.2.3, installed using Python 3.12.3
These apps are now globally available
- pyspread.exe
done!
Qem wrote 1 day ago:
Under Fedora 39 I was able to pip install and run it withhout
problems, inside a venv environment:
(pyspread) [xxxx@fedora ~]$ pip install pyspread
Collecting pyspread
Obtaining dependency information for pyspread from
https://files.pythonhosted.org/packages/a5/e2/19ddb20b46ae46f11102f90
95bf5bf00cb28cc79b35f38257f84a98ecd1d/pyspread-2.2.3-py3-none-any.whl
.metadata
Downloading pyspread-2.2.3-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (4.8 kB)
Collecting PyQt5>=5.10 (from pyspread)
Obtaining dependency information for PyQt5>=5.10 from
https://files.pythonhosted.org/packages/2f/e6/a1f9853e4933c312c6de9c7
9d126c7d92ef69ae0e53895fb1ceb0ecc77a6/PyQt5-5.15.10-cp37-abi3-manylin
ux_2_17_x86_64.whl.metadata
Downloading
PyQt5-5.15.10-cp37-abi3-manylinux_2_17_x86_64.whl.metadata (2.1 kB)
Collecting markdown2>=2.3 (from pyspread)
Obtaining dependency information for markdown2>=2.3 from
https://files.pythonhosted.org/packages/5a/09/a9ef8d5fe4b08bfd0dd1330
84deefcffc4b2a37a9ca35a22b48622d59262/markdown2-2.4.13-py2.py3-none-a
ny.whl.metadata
Downloading markdown2-2.4.13-py2.py3-none-any.whl.metadata (2.0
kB)
Collecting numpy>=1.1 (from pyspread)
Obtaining dependency information for numpy>=1.1 from
https://files.pythonhosted.org/packages/0f/50/de23fde84e45f5c4fda2488
c759b69990fd4512387a8632860f3ac9cd225/numpy-1.26.4-cp312-cp312-manyli
nux_2_17_x86_64.manylinux2014_x86_64.whl.metadata
Downloading
numpy-1.26.4-cp312-cp312-manylinux_2_17_x86_64.manylinux2014_x86_64.w
hl.metadata (61 kB)
âââââââââââââââââââââââ
ââââââââââââââââ 61.0/61.0 kB 311.8
kB/s eta 0:00:00
Collecting setuptools>=40.0 (from pyspread)
Obtaining dependency information for setuptools>=40.0 from
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amias wrote 1 day ago:
stop trying to use the system python for application development.
You will break your OS and you will make your code machine specific.
Go read up on Virtual Envs , you were the problem here.
sensen7 wrote 23 hours 30 min ago:
If venvs were a reasonable solution here, presumably the pyspread
authors would have included them in the installation instructions.
Instead they just say to "pip install", which predictably does not
work for most people.
It sounds a bit unfair to tell someone that "they're the problem"
when they followed the official installation instructions to the
letter. I would agree in classifying this as another case of python
developers being unable to provide a working way to install their
software (if code that the average person can't even get to execute
can even be called "software".)
UncleEntity wrote 1 day ago:
> stop trying to use the system python for application development.
Umm... who exactly makes sure the app runs correctly with the
version of python installed by the system?
I, for one, aren't going to bump up a python version to run a
single app in a virtual environment because some dev decided to use
'python nightly' to code against.
kwhitefoot wrote 1 day ago:
Why is this directed at me? I'm not the one doing the software
development, I was just trying to install an application.
adolph wrote 1 day ago:
venv not always a panacea for system python
$ docker run --rm -it python bash
[...]
root@211646f0fa99:/# which python
/usr/local/bin/python
root@211646f0fa99:/# python -m venv .venv
root@211646f0fa99:/# source .venv/bin/activate
(.venv) root@211646f0fa99:/# which python
/.venv/bin/python
(.venv) root@211646f0fa99:/# ls -l "$(which python)"
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 May 7 14:47 /.venv/bin/python ->
/usr/local/bin/python
metadat wrote 1 day ago:
Correct, virtualenv isolates package installation but doesn't
handle installing or managing arbitrary Python versions.
Node.js is similar with npm.
Is there something like nvm but for Python?
djd20 wrote 23 hours 23 min ago:
Try pyenv - very handy, includes funkier editions like pypy
evilduck wrote 1 day ago:
Python has like a dozen competing solutions in their package
management space. Python is clearly the problem, not the user.
Their docs donât say that, they advertise exactly what the GP
ran. Python needs to unfuck its ecosystem.
smaudet wrote 1 day ago:
Yeah they kinda screwed the pooch on that.
That being said, venv is the official solution, and it works
fairly well. pipenv/pipx are some alternatives...but yeah.
What exactly is your system installation for if you aren't
supposed to install anything to it? The package system should be
able to attempt installing via venv or be able to block
uncompatible packages with sane error messages.
tupolef wrote 1 day ago:
And for the lazy ones, pipx uses Virtual Envs and can install most
things from a path, an archive or a package name. Install pipx and
check pipx install --help.
kreddor wrote 1 day ago:
I tried to install it on ubuntu 22.04 and got a different error using
pip. I'm not experienced enough with Python to quickly figure out how
to proceed. It's a shame it isn't easier to install.
rbanffy wrote 1 day ago:
The Gods have listened to me!
frognumber wrote 1 day ago:
This looks a very good idea.
This would be an ideal place for a semi-technical user to contribute
documentation. Good starter open-source contribution. Without that,
it's hard to figure out if it would work for me, let alone give
feedback.
photochemsyn wrote 1 day ago:
pandas has a good documentation model for installation and usage: [1]
(HTM) [1]: https://pandas.pydata.org/docs/getting_started/install.html
(HTM) [2]: https://pandas.pydata.org/docs/user_guide/10min.html
sevagh wrote 1 day ago:
Every dev here loves throwing unglamorous volunteer work to
non-developers, acting as if it's a favor.
resource_waste wrote 1 day ago:
>Every dev here loves doing volunteer work as a favor.
Devs are expected to contribute to FOSS, write free educational
blog posts about technology, and fix your friends computer!
Ask a doctor why something hurts and they tell you to come into
their office and insurance will bill you.
sevagh wrote 23 hours 24 min ago:
This sounds made up tbh. I mean, I agree it's common to feel this
"pressure" but the day you discover the pressure isn't real is
the day you level up. And I charge plenty for fixing peoples'
software pains.
I do open-source and write blog posts to satisfy my own desire to
publicize my work, and for exposure, and to put my skills on
display. Not as a race to the bottom. I could have had a career
without those things.
JulianChastain wrote 1 day ago:
Some of the motivation for this comes from how often devs want to
contribute to open source but are intimidated by how difficult the
barrier of entry is, particularly for large projects. It's
surprisingly hard to find a good list of projects that a beginner
or even intermediate programmer can substantially contribute to.
The ones that do exist tend to have the low hanging fruit plucked
pretty quickly.
frognumber wrote 19 hours 28 min ago:
A few points:
- Most of my career was made by being the author of one popular
open source platform which happened to do well.
- I've recruited people based on open-source contributions. If I
want an expert in [X], finding someone who contributed to [X] is
a good bet.
- The flip side is I've made (minor, helpful) contributions to
many projects in part for exposure. My name is in the commit list
of many systems in domains where I have wanted to work.
- Many mid-sized contributions look good on a resume, especially
for a junior developer. Indeed, I've made one case to promote
someone based, in part, on contributing to a library we were
using (even if only tangentially).
If you want a job in e.g. network security, find something in a
firewall, anonymzing proxy, packet sniffer, or whatnot, and make
a PR. It's often quick, easy, and helpful. A corollary is you do
actually learn a lot about a system by contributing.
I have no axe to grind here, but I think the cynicism is
unwarranted.
sevagh wrote 18 hours 51 min ago:
I love open source. My cynicism isn't about open-source, but
about the OP's first post being "these docs suck, snaps fingers
maybe one of you non-devs can work on it."
frognumber wrote 18 hours 29 min ago:
Good life lesson: You don't know until you ask.
That's more a salesperson mantra than SWE, where for every
10-100 people you ask, someone buys something. However, I've
raised money many times simply by shamelessly asking.
Second good life lesson: Don't assume things about others.
People who make $1/day, $10/day, $100/day, $1000/day,
$10,000/day, etc. have fundamentally different priorities and
motivations. Ditto on many other axes. Good synergies are
leveraged working across such differences.
blitzar wrote 1 day ago:
"You will be paid in exposure" - this is where the venn diagram for
devs & social media influencers intersect.
jjmarr wrote 1 day ago:
Except when you contribute to open-source, you typically have a
legal document (the licence) that explains how the exposure will
be paid.
psychoslave wrote 1 day ago:
So what, who want raw wild naked large exposure? If you donât
get an army of free PR specialists, lawyers and body guards to
protect you and your beloved ones h24 every single day for the
rest your lives, itâs an obviously net negative situation.
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