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#Post#: 32615--------------------------------------------------
PCM Parking PCN – £60 for a 5 min stop – Millbrook Park Coop
By: bubsie012 Date: August 7, 2024, 3:55 pm
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Hello,
I would really appreciate some advice on appealing a recent
'Postal Notification of Parking Charge to Keeper' letter :-\
The driver entered the car park bay at 15:27 and went into the
coop to get an item. There was another person sitting and
waiting in the car at this time. A person in the car behind us
took the images of the vehicle stopping and leaving. No ticket
was issued on the spot. The driver returned to the car and left
at 15:32. On 7th August, the registered keeper (who was not the
driver at the time) received the postal notification of parking
charge to keeper letter.
Here is the front of the letter:
(HTM) https://imgur.com/a/ZRcstYb
and the back:
(HTM) https://imgur.com/a/LYpPv4z
And here is the image provided as evidence of the car arriving:
(HTM) https://imgur.com/a/n55Rjf7
and leaving:
(HTM) https://imgur.com/a/cNZV4Gw
The signage at the car park indicates that the first 30 minutes
are free but vehicles must be registered for this parking
session. Here is the signage:
(HTM) https://imgur.com/a/umv7bvQ
Please could someone help me appeal this? We were only there for
5 minutes and no PCN was issued to the driver on the spot. It
was so sneaky of them to sit in the car and take pictures like
that. Also, the dates are so confusing - according to the letter
the PCN was "issued" on 27th July, the date of posting the
notice is 31st July, the date the notice is given is 2nd Aug and
it was received today on 7th Aug.
I would really appreciate any help. This seems really unfair...
Thank you so much in advance!
#Post#: 32662--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCM Parking PCN – £60 for a 5 min stop – Millbrook Park Coop
By: b789 Date: August 8, 2024, 6:14 am
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It is unfair but you are dealing with a firm of ex-clamper thugs
who are out to scam you. This is easily defenced, however, any
initial appeal and subsequent secondary appeal is not going to
work.
PCM are an IPC member and their trade association are simply a
cartel whose only interest is protecting their members. Their
secondary, supposedly "independent" appeals service, is simply a
kangaroo court and less than 5% of appeals submitted are
accepted.
Not to worry though. There are 4 plans of action. Plan A is to
get the landowner or whoever contracted PCM to get the PCN
cancelled. Find out if it is the Co Op who either own the land
or contracted PCM to manage the car park. If so, email the CEO
or as high up the management food chain you can go and explain
that as a patron of their store, you do not expect to be
invoiced by an unregulated private parking company for £100.
Plan B is to appeal to PCM, for what it's worth. However, there
is a flaw in their Notice to Keeper (NtK) which renders it
non-compliant with The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA).
What this means is that if they do not know the identity of the
driver, they cannot transfer liability to the keeper. So, any
appeal is made by the keeper and, as there is no legal
obligation to identify the driver to an unregulated private
parking company, you decline to do so.
The keeper will need to make sure that they do not identify the
driver inadvertently or otherwise. If selecting any options, do
not select "driver". Only "keeper" or "other".
As the Plan B appeal will be rejected, there is then Plan C.
Personally, I wouldn't bother but others on here would suggest
that a less than 5% chance of convincing a cabal of incestuous
paralegals that they should deny their paymasters their scam
money, is still worthwhile.
Which leads on to Plan D, the ultimate dispute resolution
service, the small claims track in the County Court where the
only truly independent arbiter, a judge, would decide whether
you owe PCM a debt. This is the most likely outcome but it is
rare that it would actually get to a hearing as most of these
claims are discontinued.
The keeper would receive a whole load of debt collector letters
before this stage but they can ll be safely ignored as the debt
collectors have no powers as they are third party to the
contract the driver is alleged to ahem breached. This process is
solely aimed at getting the low-hanging fruit on the gullible
tree to capitulate and pay up. They rely on the ignorance of the
majority of their victims on how the civil litigation process
works. If you are here getting advice, you will not be
low-hanging fruit.
There is a very small (minuscule) risk that a defence to a claim
is not accepted by the judge, in which case they would find
against the defendant and a CCJ is issued. However, there is no
danger of a CCJ being on your credit record as long as it is
paid in full within 28 days of judgment. If paid in full within
that period, the CCJ is expunged from the record as though it
never existed. As this would be a "small" claim, costs are fixed
and any fake add ons already claimed by the useless debt
collectors are not allowed. In the very worst case scenario
where a claim was unsuccessfully defended, it would be no more
than the £100 PCN charge plus a £35 court fee and £50 fixed
legal costs. However, as I have said, that is an extremely
remote likelihood.
The normal modus operandi of these scammers is to try and scare
you into paying with useless threats of litigation and then
filing a claim through one of the roboclaim firms of
bottom-dwelling solicitors and going all the way up to the date
they have to file their trial fee and if the defendant hasn't
capitulated by then, they discontinue and move on to
lower-hanging fruit.
We also have a very good defence which is likely to lead to a
claim either being struck-out or discontinued before it ever
gets to a hearing. The latest defence strategy having been
advised by a long serving district judge who knows how these
abusers of the court system operate.
So, for now, you need to try Plan A. Any Plan B appeal, for what
it's worth, can be made just before the 28 day deadline. Just
remember, do not identify the driver. The keeper is doing all
the work and simply says things like "The driver did this or
that...". No "I did this or that...".
#Post#: 32732--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCM Parking PCN – £60 for a 5 min stop – Millbrook Park Coop
By: bubsie012 Date: August 8, 2024, 1:42 pm
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Thanks b789 for your detailed and considered reply!
Thugs, indeed! I read the T&Cs for IPC and it was all about
making more money and supporting their members, as you
mentioned. >:(
I'll try Plan A, and Plan B if that fails - fingers crossed!
It's always worth a try even if it fails.
#Post#: 34418--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCM Parking PCN – £60 for a 5 min stop – Millbrook Park Coop
By: bubsie012 Date: August 23, 2024, 4:08 pm
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Just in case anyone is interested, I won the appeal! ;D
I wrote to PCM and told them that 5 minutes is simply not enough
consideration time for the driver to understand/accept the T&Cs.
I also said that this was covert surveillance to issue a PCN
where the consideration period had not ended.
Also threw in a bit about the charge being disproportionate and
not commercially justifiable (the amount charged is not based
upon any commercially justifiable loss to their company or the
landowner).
#Post#: 34421--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCM Parking PCN – £60 for a 5 min stop – Millbrook Park Coop
By: b789 Date: August 23, 2024, 4:22 pm
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Wow… well done. Perhaps you should go purchase a lottery ticket.
#Post#: 34422--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCM Parking PCN – £60 for a 5 min stop – Millbrook Park Coop
By: DWMB2 Date: August 23, 2024, 4:24 pm
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[quote author=b789 link=topic=2753.msg34421#msg34421
date=1724448173]
Perhaps you should go purchase a lottery ticket.
[/quote]
And if you do, tell us your numbers! I think that's the first
time I've ever seen PCM accept an appeal.
#Post#: 34423--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCM Parking PCN – £60 for a 5 min stop – Millbrook Park Coop
By: bubsie012 Date: August 23, 2024, 4:35 pm
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[quote author=b789 link=topic=2753.msg34421#msg34421
date=1724448173]
Wow… well done. Perhaps you should go purchase a lottery ticket.
[/quote]
Haha I think I will :) I think I just got lucky but this forum
really helped - I wouldn't have normally even appealed so really
grateful to the community here!
#Post#: 34424--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCM Parking PCN – £60 for a 5 min stop – Millbrook Park Coop
By: bubsie012 Date: August 23, 2024, 4:36 pm
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[quote author=DWMB2 link=topic=2753.msg34422#msg34422
date=1724448277]
[quote author=b789 link=topic=2753.msg34421#msg34421
date=1724448173]
Perhaps you should go purchase a lottery ticket.
[/quote]
And if you do, tell us your numbers! I think that's the first
time I've ever seen PCM accept an appeal.
[/quote]
Ha, I think I used all my luck while fighting this ticket! I
just wanted to share an update to spread some hope! :)
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