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#Post#: 16312--------------------------------------------------
French Foreign Legion
By: Beowolff Date: March 5, 2021, 4:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[center]
(HTM) https://i.postimg.cc/C11MM6y1/d10a65ffc44d4c3a9d2caa1af4a8c7f1.jpg[/center]
[center]The French Foreign Legion[/center]
Ah, the Foreign Legion! Of course this dredges up old memories
of myself as a kid watching those old black and white shows on
TV, those old movies... of gallant and brave Legionnaires
bravely marching through the burning desert always under threat
of attack by brutal tribesmen just over the next sand dune!
Oh how 'I' wanted to join up with them! But of course I wasn't
eligible as a kid of five or six, eh? LOL! ;D
(HTM) https://i.postimg.cc/PrxSTWFq/b08091164c4126245c8e4dab169563e3.jpg
Those were the days of big dreams...my childhood...for stuck on
a hard scrabble farm/ranch where I was expected to work like a
grown man even at the tender age of four didn't leave me a whole
lot of 'fun' to have. I had to 'steal' time to play and just be
a kid and so such adventuresome, romantic ideas of gallant
Legionnaires (and cowboys and Indians and such) always filled my
head in what little spare time I had to play.
Of course true life wasn't so glamorous as my
daydreams/imagination would have it.
The Legionnaires had it rough, very rough, especially in the
early days and it's still no cakewalk today.
(HTM) https://i.postimg.cc/wTMYZsXX/2ab6c170245384849152fbee370a0ed8.jpg
(HTM) https://i.postimg.cc/jjr9xW7k/7fafa63028a3c35ae59f5025c4970956.jpg
{Source Wiki)
[font=sans-serif]Since 1831, the Legion has consisted of
hundreds of thousands in active service at its peak, and
suffered the aggregated loss of nearly 40,000
men[/font][sup][font=sans-serif][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Foreign_Legion#cite_note-11][color=#0645ad][11][/iurl][/font][/color][/sup][font=sans-serif]<br
/>in
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France][font=sans-serif]France[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algeria][font=sans-serif]Algeria[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco][font=sans-serif]Morocco[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunisia][font=sans-serif]Tunisia[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar][font=sans-serif]Madagascar[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Africa][font=sans-serif]West<br
/>Africa[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico][font=sans-serif]Mexico[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy][font=sans-serif]Italy[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>the
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea][font=sans-serif]Crimea[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain][font=sans-serif]Spain[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-China][font=sans-serif]Indo-China[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway][font=sans-serif]Norway[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria][font=sans-serif]Syria[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad][font=sans-serif]Chad[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaïre][font=sans-serif]Zaïre[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon][font=sans-serif]Lebanon[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Africa][font=sans-serif]Central<br
/>Africa[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabon][font=sans-serif]Gabon[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuwait][font=sans-serif]Kuwait[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwanda][font=sans-serif]Rwanda[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djibouti][font=sans-serif]Djibouti[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>former
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia][font=sans-serif]Yugoslavia[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia][font=sans-serif]Somalia[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>the
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Congo][font=sans-serif]Republic<br
/>of Congo[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivory_Coast][font=sans-serif]Ivory<br
/>Coast[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan][font=sans-serif]Afghanistan[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali][font=sans-serif]Mali[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>as well as others. The French Foreign Legion was primarily use
d
to help protect and expand the
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_colonial_empire][font=sans-serif]French<br
/>colonial empire[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif] during the 19th
century. The Foreign Legion was initially stationed only in
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Algeria][font=sans-serif]Algeria[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>where it took part in the
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacification_of_Algeria][font=sans-serif]pacification[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif]<br
/>and development of the colony. Subsequently, the Foreign Legio
n
was deployed in a number of conflicts, including the
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Carlist_War][font=sans-serif]First<br
/>Carlist War[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif] in 1835, the
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War][font=sans-serif]Crimean<br
/>War[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif] in 1854, the
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Italian_War_of_Independence][font=sans-serif]Second<br
/>Italian War of Independence[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif] in
1859, the
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_intervention_in_Mexico][font=sans-serif]French<br
/>intervention in Mexico[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif] in 1863,
the
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Prussian_War][font=sans-serif]Franco-Prussian<br
/>War[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif] in 1870, the
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonkin_Campaign][font=sans-serif]Tonkin<br
/>Campaign[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif] and
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-French_War][font=sans-serif]Sino-French<br
/>War[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif] in 1883, supporting growth
of
the
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_colonial_empire][font=sans-serif]French<br
/>colonial empire[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif] in
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-Saharan_Africa][font=sans-serif]Sub-Saharan<br
/>Africa[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif], the
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Franco-Dahomean_War][font=sans-serif]Second<br
/>Franco-Dahomean War[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif] in 1892, th
e
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Madagascar_expedition][font=sans-serif]Second<br
/>Madagascar expedition[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif] in 1895 a
nd
the
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandingo_Wars][font=sans-serif]Mandingo<br
/>Wars[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif] in 1894. In
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I][font=sans-serif]World<br
/>War I[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif], the Foreign Legion fough
t
in many critical battles on the
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Front_(World_War_I)][font=sans-serif]Western<br
/>Front[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif]. It played a smaller role
in World War II than in World War I, though having a part in the
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Campaign][font=sans-serif]Norwegian[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria-Lebanon_Campaign][font=sans-serif]Syrian[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif]<br
/>and
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_African_Campaign][font=sans-serif]North<br
/>African[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif] campaigns. During the
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indochina_War][font=sans-serif]First<br
/>Indochina War[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif] (1946–1954), the
Foreign Legion saw its numbers swell. The Legion lost a large
number of men in the (for them) catastrophic
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dien_Bien_Phu][font=sans-serif]Battle<br
/>of Dien Bien Phu[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif] against forces
of the
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viet_Minh][font=sans-serif]Viet<br
/>Minh[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif].
[/font]{source quote end}
So, as you can see from the above, the Legion has never had it
easy... they've been thrown into combat all over the world in
the hottest of hot spots, they've been marched into slaughter
time and time again and for the most part (no matter the good or
bad of the political situation driving them) they've performed
magnificently.
Go here for more historic (wiki) information:
[iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Foreign_Legion]French<br
/>Foreign Legion - Wikipedia[/iurl]
Modern Legionnaires continue that trend from what I can
tell/read/hear about.
Now how do 'I' feel or what do 'I' (as an adult) feel about the
Legion? Well, I know they've not always been used wisely, many
times they've simply been the French Government's Enforcers
rather than Defenders... I get that. I also get that 'most'
military forces around the world has been used similarly from
time to time. (Sadly enough.) That's the way of life, I
suppose. Military units may not 'be' political (well, until
recently anyway) but the military has always been stuck with
having to do the political whims (good or bad) of governments
and politicians since time immortal. I doubt if it'll ever
change.
I still feel an excitement about the Foreign Legion...to this
day! Ha! Their [font=Roboto, sans-serif]Esprit de Corps has
always been and still is one of their main linchpins/attractions
for me. Of course they've 'still' got the coolest uniforms and
some darn exotic/cool looking weapons too. Too old and too fat
now to be a gob-smacked 'good-looking' Legionnaire I still
'imagine' myself marching along through the desert with them
though...lol!
Here is a link to an official site:
[iurl=
(HTM) https://www.legion-etrangere.com/]LEGION
ETRANGERE
(legion-etrangere.com)[/iurl][/font]
A map showing recent and current Legion deployments and other
info:
(HTM) http://foreignlegion.inf
o/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/operation-barkhane-map-20
17.jpg
A link to more current info on the Legion:
[iurl=
(HTM) http://foreignlegion.inf
o/2018/03/29/foreign-legion-overseas-deployments-2018/]Foreign
Legion: Overseas Deployments 2018 | French Foreign Legion
Information[/iurl]
These guys are superbly trained combat soldiers, certainly I
respect them immensely. I (as you might have already noted)
haven't always agreed with the political aspects of their
deployments...yet I have and still do feel they are a powerful
force (usually) for good in this world. Certainly they are no
one to mess with when it comes to hot combat!
Discussion on this subject is VERY welcome, as are comments and
shooting the breeze conversation.
Please join in and let us know your views, thoughts, opinions
here.
S!
Beo
#Post#: 16317--------------------------------------------------
Re: French Foreign Legion
By: Dreamk Date: March 5, 2021, 5:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The whole size of the Foreign Legion is less than 9000 men. Most
of the French troops operating in the Sahel area are not Foreign
Legion but regular French army units.
The Foreign legion is made of 8 regiments (including 1 paratroop
regt, 1 cavalry regt, 2 engineers regt , 2 infantry regt and 2
non-combat regt that can serve in case of need as combat support
units) and a "half-brigade" (an expanded motorized infantry regt
operating in support of a light armour regular French regiment
to which it is integrated - roughly on the model of the
panzergrenadier units.
The Paratroop regiment and the 2 Infantry regiments are,
together with the 3rd marine Infantry Regiment, the best troops
of the French army - some say the only good troops, and in fact
till the intervention in Sahel they were the only French troops
with operational experience - The growing needs of troops for
the French intervention there has demanded huge changes in the
training of other regular French army units so as to bring them
to an acceptable operational status, an objective which seems to
have been reached in the last two years, that have seen a
drastic increase in the professionalism of French soldiers
involved in the Sahel operations - but also of their losses as
they are now directly involved in active fighting.
#Post#: 16318--------------------------------------------------
Re: French Foreign Legion
By: Beowolff Date: March 5, 2021, 9:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Excellent information, DK! 8) Thank you for your comment and
response!
9000 men seems such a small amount for the firepower they can
put out, eh!
For people unfamiliar with the name Sahel, here is more info:
[font=Roboto, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Sahel is the ecoclimatic
and biogeographic realm of transition in Africa between the
Sahara to the north and the Sudanian savanna to the south.
Having a semi-arid climate, it stretches across the
south-central latitudes of Northern Africa between the Atlantic
Ocean and the Red Sea.
Link to Wiki pages info-
[iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahel#cite_note-38]Sahel
-
Wikipedia[/iurl][/font]
[font=Roboto, Helvetica, sans-serif]
(HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Camels_in_Chad.png[/font]
[font=Linux Libertine, Georgia, Times, serif]Instability and
violence (from wiki)[/font]
[font=sans-serif]Terrorist organizations including
[iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boko_Haram][color=#0645ad]Boko<br
/>Haram[/iurl] and
[iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda_in_the_Islamic_Maghreb]Al-Qaeda<br
/>in the Islamic Maghreb[/iurl] (AQIM) operating in the Sahel ha
ve
contributed to the violence, extremism and instability of the
region.[/font][/color]
[font=sans-serif]The violent
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herder–farmer_conflicts_in_Nigeria][font=sans-serif]herder–farmer<br
/>conflicts in Nigeria[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_2019_attacks_against_Fulani_herders][font=sans-serif]Mali[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif],<br
/>[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_nomadic_conflicts][font=sans-serif]Sudan[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif]<br
/>and other countries in the Sahel region have been exacerbated
by
climate change, land degradation, and
[/font][font=sans-serif][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_growth]population<br
/>growth[/iurl].[/font][font=sans-serif] Droughts and food
shortages have been also linked to the
[/font][iurl=
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Mali_conflict][font=sans-serif]Northern<br
/>Mali conflict[/font][/iurl][font=sans-serif].[/font]
[font=Roboto, Helvetica, sans-serif]French forces there:
(HTM) https://i.postimg.cc/q7nzYSkf/Frances-Operation-Barkhane-1024x765.jpg[/font]
[font=Roboto, Helvetica,
sans-serif]
(HTM) https://i.postimg.cc/NjvMXb6p/b98c076d9b62a0ff24bb4c210b9d1b6bc4179993.jpg[/font]
#Post#: 16320--------------------------------------------------
Re: French Foreign Legion
By: Cashmere_Dave Date: March 5, 2021, 3:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
From memory, there was a time in the early 1980s when they were
banned from training with the French army. The Army soldiers
sustained too many inuries. ;)
#Post#: 16324--------------------------------------------------
Re: French Foreign Legion
By: Beowolff Date: March 5, 2021, 6:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Cashmere_Dave link=topic=2275.msg16320#msg16320
date=1614979144]
From memory, there was a time in the early 1980s when they were
banned from training with the French army. The Army soldiers
sustained too many inuries. ;)
[/quote]
I heard that too but have no idea if it's true... anybody for
sure on that or is it just people talking? 8)
#Post#: 16330--------------------------------------------------
Re: French Foreign Legion
By: Beowolff Date: March 6, 2021, 8:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Looks like the old FAMAS (and newer modified versions) along
with HK's are the standard rifles of the Legion. Nice weapons.
I have fired a FAMAS (and thought it a grand weapon), I've not
shot the HK but there's little doubt it's a quality weapon.
[iurl=
(HTM) http://foreignlegion.inf
o/equipment/#:~:text=French
Foreign Legion Weapons PA MAC 50 PA,(MAC)%2C thereafter by
Manufacture d’Armes de Saint-Étienne (MAS).]Equipment | French
Foreign Legion Information[/iurl]
(HTM) https://i.postimg.cc/BncWMpGM/f1famas30.jpg
#Post#: 16332--------------------------------------------------
Re: French Foreign Legion
By: Dreamk Date: March 6, 2021, 10:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The French army underwent a drastic change in the end-80s: they
stooped being a conscription army ('people army"), the army
being from now on a smaller professional army.
The conscription army was fully ineffective (what can you do
with masses of conscripts, staying only 12 months overall under
the flag, beyond basic training) - and the combined training
exercises involving both such conscripted units and professional
units like the Foreign legion, resulted in a high level of
accidental injuries (or worse), as could be expected - thus the
ensuing logical decision to keep these units training
separately.
The French army of today is much more efficient for intervention
in small conflicts (but of course totally unsuited to a full war
situation) - implementing the model of training and logistics of
the Foreign legion but also the branches integration seen in the
US marines - this can bee seen on the map of the Barkane
operation were armor, helicopters, engineers, logistic and
infantry are integrated in a fighting force. The Air force
remains the weakest point of the French army, and will
apparently remain so in the coming years.
#Post#: 16335--------------------------------------------------
Re: French Foreign Legion
By: Beowolff Date: March 6, 2021, 10:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Again, great information, DK... thank you. Question though,
you mentioned aircraft being a weakness... what is the problem
there? France has throughout the years had wonderful and
sophisticated military aircraft (especially in the years AFTER
WW2) so what has happened there to cause trouble?
S!
Beo
#Post#: 16336--------------------------------------------------
Re: French Foreign Legion
By: Dreamk Date: March 6, 2021, 12:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[font=Verdana]French air force main mission is still mainly
focused on being a strategic nuclear vector - together with the
aging ballistic submarines - something still more stressed after
the French dismantled their land-based nuclear missile (both
strategic and tactic) arm.[/font]
[font=Verdana]Close air support has never been seriously
developed since the sixties - the Franco-British Jaguar were a
return to the failed concept of "vol rasant", once again using a
badly armored plane, with an average overall weapon load (the US
also implemented at this same period the "vol rasant" concept
but with the A-10 which was a "flying tank") and the use of the
Mirage F1 in this role were still worse. [/font]
[font=Verdana]This is currently the most acute problem of the
French air force - the Mirage 2000 is a quite good interceptor
but not suited to close air support. And close air support is
what is needed for the kind of military operations for which the
modern French army is designed.[/font]
[font=Verdana]Another huge problem is the logistics branch -
still using the short-range short-capacity Transall, they were
compelled, for the intervention in Sahel, to ask the US for
support by temporary leasing them C-130 Hercules.[/font]
[font=Verdana]PS. I see that I forgot the Rafale which is an
issue by itself - once again, an aircraft initially designed as
a pure fighter with some degree of stealth capability, it
underwent a series of successive transformations over the years
to become suited to a "multi-figher" role. The result is a
fighter roughly equivalent to the F-18, but with a cumbersome
(and expensive) maintenance. Maintenance in combat operations is
are further questioned while at the looking overall very small
numbers of aircraft built (overall 200 produced including 140
for France) - as compared with the over 4600 F16 produced - has
the expected result of a permanent strain on replacement stocks
(parts and whole aircraft). Maintenance and supply are a classic
plague of the French air force: during the short intervention in
Lybia, to oust Khaddafi regime (and put a hand over the oil
refineries...), the French air force found it soon limited due
to...the exhaustion of their stock of bombs, as these are
exclusively French produced, and once again in very limited
numbers. The re-entry of France in Nato as not improved the
situation, as France keeps insisting on using only French
designed and built equipment, instead of aligning with Nato
standardization.[/font]
#Post#: 16350--------------------------------------------------
Re: French Foreign Legion
By: Beowolff Date: March 7, 2021, 3:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Dreamk link=topic=2275.msg16336#msg16336
date=1615056634][font=Verdana] The re-entry of France in Nato as
not improved the situation, as France keeps insisting on using
only French designed and built equipment, instead of aligning
with Nato standardization.[/font]
[/quote]
Yes, I see your point. Perhaps it's the French "vive la
différence!" that is getting in the way? :D
We have our share of that here too, unfortunately.
You mentioned the Rafale, which is a 'very' attractive looking
aircraft. I have not studied it's actual effectiveness but from
what you say it seems quite powerful and useful, in particular
if it could standardize it's armament around the NATO supply
chain.
[img]
(HTM) https://www.fliegerweb.com/data/NewsPictures/Rafale_F3R_Standard_640.jpg?c=8551[/img]
Still, effective as a ground attack or not, I suppose it cannot
(as you mentioned earlier) replace/take-the-place-of such
dedicated ground sluggers as the US A-10 for low, pinpoint,
close-in tank/troop/weapon position/etc. strike/attack. Sadly
the USA continues to try and get rid of the vaunted A-10 here
despite it's continued, provable value in attack/close support.
The A-10 survives here... but only because there is nothing to
replace it with no matter how much brainless politicians want to
do away with it.
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