(DIR) Return Create A Forum - Home --------------------------------------------------------- True Left (HTM) https://trueleft.createaforum.com --------------------------------------------------------- ***************************************************** (DIR) Return to: Ancient World ***************************************************** #Post#: 4833-------------------------------------------------- The superiority of pre-colonial aesthetics By: 90sRetroFan Date: March 15, 2021, 1:20 am --------------------------------------------------------- OLD CONTENT Recently I was reading about New World nautical engineering. Here is a good introduction: web.mit.edu/ldewan/Public/raft/3094_presentation.pdf (please study this link in full before continuing) www.bradshawfoundation.com/thor/balsa-raft.php [quote]Aboriginal navigation in Peru and adjoining sections of north-western South America is a subject that is little known and still less understood by modern boat builders and anthropologist. The apparent reason is that the Peruvian Indian boat building was based on principles entirely different from those of our ancestry. To the European mind the only seaworthy vessel is one made buoyant by a watertight, air-filled hull, so big and high that it cannot be filled by the waves. To the ancient Peruvians the only seaworthy craft was one which could never be filled by water because its open construction formed no receptacle to retain the invading seas, which washed through. They achieved this by building exceedingly buoyant rafts of Balsa wood. This type of Peruvian Balsa raft could travel as far as the islands of Polynesia, 4000 miles away. The first record of a Peruvian Balsa raft antedates the actual discovery of the Inca Empire. When Francisco Pizarro left the Panama Isthmus in 1526 on his second voyage of discovery down the Pacific coast of South America; his expedition found Peruvian merchants sailors at sea long before he discovered their country. His Pilot was sailing ahead to explore the coast southwards near the equator, when off northern Ecuador his ship suddenly met another sailing vessel of almost equal size, coming in the opposite direction. The raft was manned by 20 Indian men and women, 11 of whom were thrown overboard, four were left with the raft, and two men and three women were retained by the Spanish to be trained as interpreters for later voyages.[/quote] This is, of course, standard colonialist treatment of "non-whites". But there is more: [quote]The Spaniards estimated the raft capacity at 36 tons, only a fraction less than their own vessel. Their report stated that it carried masts and yards of very fine wood, and cotton sails in the same shape and manner as on their own ships. It had very good rigging of hemp, stronger than their own rope, and mooring stones for anchors. Many similar accounts described rafts made of long and light logs, always of odd number, 5,7,9 or 11, tied together with cross beams and covered by a deck. The larger ones had the ability to carry up to 50 men and three horses, and had a special cooking place on board in a thatched hut. The cargoes often included salt, another proof of their seaworthiness. These rafts are navigated simply by raising and lowering centreboards inserted in the cracks between the logs. By raising and lowering these boards in different parts of the Balsa raft, the natives could perform on their raft all the manoeuvres of a regularly built and well rigged European vessel, and obtain speeds of 4 to 5 knots. Tiny models of the rafts have been found in graves, along with carved centreboards, near Arica in northern Chile. The sail was probably know on the Peruvian coast earlier than pottery and weaving.[/quote] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centreboard [quote]Lt. John Schank (c. 1740 – 6 February 1823) was an officer of the British Royal Navy and is credited with the invention of the centerboard. Schank, however, gave credit for the idea to British Brigadier General Earl Percy.[/quote] NEVER FORGIVE. NEVER FORGET. #Post#: 11012-------------------------------------------------- The superiority of pre-colonial aesthetics By: 90sRetroFan Date: February 2, 2022, 10:58 pm --------------------------------------------------------- OLD CONTENT The main purpose of this topic is to supply contrast to: (HTM) https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/ For example, this post will supply contrast to such **** as in: (HTM) https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg3980/#msg3980 (HTM) https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg7813/#msg7813 so we post non-Western paintings that reflect a completely different worldview. In the following examples, note the abundance of unfilled space, simple colour schemes and total rejection of 3D: (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/%E9%AB%98%E5%A5%87%E5%B3%B0_%E9%B3%A5.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Bamboo_and_Stone_by_Guan_Daosheng.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Zheng_Xie_-_Bamboo_and_rock_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg/503px-Zheng_Xie_-_Bamboo_and_rock_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Mi_Style_Landscape_fan.JPG[/img] (HTM) https://img.dpm.org.cn/Uploads/Picture/dc/64538[1024].jpg (HTM) https://cdn2.picryl.com/photo/1675/01/01/eight-views-of-the-xiao-and-xiang-rivers-52f370-1024.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/ZhOngSchanTchowBamboo.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/OngSchanTchowFish.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/ZhOngSchanTchowLonelyWoodcutter.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Xu_Yuting_Fishing_on_a_Willow-banked_Stream_ink_on_paper_hanging_scroll_The_Hashimoto_Collectin.jpg/370px-Xu_Yuting_Fishing_on_a_Willow-banked_Stream_ink_on_paper_hanging_scroll_The_Hashimoto_Collectin.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Yujian_ink_Mercadodemonta%C3%B1a.jpg (HTM) https://www.chinasage.inf o/imgs/MountainHermitage.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Leaves_and_Insects_by_Qi_Baishi_.jpg (HTM) https://cdn2.picryl.com/photo/2021/01/24/pd_china-893a64-1024.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/Tsuji_Kako_Paintings.jpg/196px-Tsuji_Kako_Paintings.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Evening_Landscape%2C_c._1540%2C_Japan%2C_Muromachi_period.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/Gejou_Keikoku_Painting.jpg/174px-Gejou_Keikoku_Painting.jpg [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Branch_of_Blossoming_Plum_by_Soga_Shohaku%2C_c._1770%2C_Edo_period%2C_Japan%2C_ink_on_paper_-_Sackler_Museum_-_DSC02581.JPG/1024px-Branch_of_Blossoming_Plum_by_Soga_Shohaku%2C_c._1770%2C_Edo_period%2C_Japan%2C_ink_on_paper_-_Sackler_Museum_-_DSC02581.JPG[/img] (HTM) https://free-images.com/lg/24fd/budo_to_risu_by.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Sesshu_-_Haboku-Sansui.jpg/497px-Sesshu_-_Haboku-Sansui.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5b/Kiyoshi_Watanabe_Painting.jpg/1024px-Kiyoshi_Watanabe_Painting.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Hasegawa_Tohaku_-_Pine_Trees_%28Sh%C5%8Drin-zu_by%C5%8Dbu%29_-_right_hand_screen.jpg/1024px-Hasegawa_Tohaku_-_Pine_Trees_%28Sh%C5%8Drin-zu_by%C5%8Dbu%29_-_right_hand_screen.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/Shubun_-_Reading_in_a_Bamboo_Grove_detail.jpg/599px-Shubun_-_Reading_in_a_Bamboo_Grove_detail.jpg [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/Orchids_and_Rocks_along_a_Riverbank_by_Ike_no_Taiga%2C_Honolulu_Museum_of_Art.JPG/418px-Orchids_and_Rocks_along_a_Riverbank_by_Ike_no_Taiga%2C_Honolulu_Museum_of_Art.JPG[/img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/%E7%8C%B4%E8%B2%93%E5%9C%96.jpg/1024px-%E7%8C%B4%E8%B2%93%E5%9C%96.jpg [img] (HTM) https://wahooart.com/Art.nsf/O/8XYD87/$File/Katsushika-Hokusai-Tanuki.JPG[/img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Sy%C5%8Dky%C5%8D-zu_2.jpg #Post#: 11030-------------------------------------------------- Re: The superiority of pre-colonial aesthetics By: 90sRetroFan Date: February 3, 2022, 8:21 pm --------------------------------------------------------- OLD CONTENT contd. Remember, it's not just the paintings, but also the frames. Contrasting with: (HTM) https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg6186/#msg6186 non-Homo-Hubris people use either soft scrolls: (HTM) https://s.yimg.com/ob/image/1bda344f-0f3d-4d1b-b990-30c568af2928.jpg (HTM) https://img03.hamazo.tv/usr/tenshoudo/koboku157.jpg [img width=960 height=1280] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Hanging_scroll_and_Ikebana_1.jpg[/img] (HTM) https://www.zihuamei.com/userfiles/newscnzhm201762791748664295.jpg (HTM) https://i2.kknews.cc/E_s0hRJzvlUEOleWPnJFNcjj_tiIkmVn6uY4pA/0.jpg (HTM) http://file5.gucn.com/file/CurioPicfile/20110918/Gucn_20110918198216160634Pic2.jpg [img width=574 height=1280] (HTM) https://8.blog.xuite.net/8/b/2/7/29072857/blog_3443649/txt/104976803/10.jpg[/img] [img] (HTM) https://www.shop.moj.gov.tw/public/Data/35210315971.JPG[/img] or even when they use hard frames, these are totally undecorated and purely functional, as anyone with even the most elementary level of taste would assume all frames should be: (HTM) http://www.zihuazb.com/zb_users/upload/2019/05/201905171558058922689250.jpg (HTM) https://img.alicdn.com/i4/745546715/O1CN014knCfz1zTWEyaAWFf_!!0-item_pic.jpg_q50s50.jpg [img] (HTM) https://cf.shopee.tw/file/b781c0aa35b9b2c55321a5592d891722[/img] [img] (HTM) https://cf.shopee.tw/file/0f788abf93f888ccfed30736304bb63b[/img] (HTM) http://www.zihuazb.com/zb_users/upload/2019/08/201908271566875798643110.jpg (HTM) https://img.ruten.com.tw/s2/0/40/70/22025701124208_918.jpg (HTM) https://www.art2500.com/uploadfile/ueditor/image/20190418/1555557925955897.jpg [img] (HTM) https://imgservice.suning.cn/uimg1/b2c/image/fbbX7hymaaDW21kkk8qTQA.jpg_800w_800h_4e[/img] (HTM) https://www.chinayis.com/image.php?maxwidth=400&maxheight=400&image=/Uploads/Picture/2018-03-13/5aa78f21e1bc2.png It is only when we compare side-by-side that we see fully how Western aesthetics are utterly **** in the head. And the sad thing is, there are literally billions of Eurocentrists out there who still presume Western aesthetics are superior without having ever made proper comparisons..... #Post#: 11064-------------------------------------------------- Re: The superiority of pre-colonial aesthetics By: 90sRetroFan Date: February 4, 2022, 8:09 pm --------------------------------------------------------- OLD CONTENT contd. [member=1]90sRetroFan[/member] I actually love these type of art forms as well. Have always been a fan of brush strokes and line work. Quite often I prefer a sketch to a finished piece for example. I think the only thing I get confused about is your use of the term '3D'. For myself any work of art that has any shading in it at all has entered into the third dimension, no? So from my perspective, there is actually some 3D art in the images you presented below. I do not see "the total rejection of 3D" in those images as you do. Some clarification in this regard would be appreciated, thank you! --- "For myself any work of art that has any shading in it at all has entered into the third dimension, no?" I would say only if the shading attempts to simulate material space. In the examples I have posted, however, the shading still obviously looks like a 2D splash of ink on a 2D surface; in many cases you can even trace the 2D trajectory of the painter's hand by looking at it. This is a similar difference as between pixel sprites (2D) and polygon models (3D): [img] (HTM) https://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/ppusf4-featured.jpg?w=1200&strip=all[/img] Due to the visibility of the pixels, the sprites on the left, even though they involve shading, are still perceived in our minds as 2D, as opposed to the polygon models on the right which are instantly discernible as 3D. (And notice how much more expressive the faces on the left are! This is the superiority of 2D.) Formally speaking, I would require the following (all of which are uniquely Western techniques) to be used for a painting to be considered 3D: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_art#Techniques [quote]The use of proportion – The first major treatment of the painting as a window into space appeared in the work of Giotto di Bondone, at the beginning of the 14th century. True linear perspective was formalized later, by Filippo Brunelleschi and Leon Battista Alberti. In addition to giving a more realistic presentation of art, it moved Renaissance painters into composing more paintings. Foreshortening – The term foreshortening refers to the artistic effect of shortening lines in a drawing so as to create an illusion of depth. Sfumato – The term sfumato was coined by Italian Renaissance artist Leonardo da Vinci and refers to a fine art painting technique of blurring or softening of sharp outlines by subtle and gradual blending of one tone into another through the use of thin glazes to give the illusion of depth or three-dimensionality. This stems from the Italian word sfumare meaning to evaporate or to fade out. The Latin origin is fumare, to smoke. Chiaroscuro – The term chiaroscuro refers to the fine art painting modeling effect of using a strong contrast between light and dark to give the illusion of depth or three-dimensionality. This comes from the Italian words meaning light (chiaro) and dark (scuro), a technique which came into wide use in the Baroque period.[/quote] The examples posted above, to their credit, use none of these. #Post#: 18607-------------------------------------------------- Re: The superiority of pre-colonial aesthetics By: 90sRetroFan Date: March 25, 2023, 9:07 pm --------------------------------------------------------- OLD CONTENT contd. The same applies to pottery. Contrast: (HTM) https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg4112/#msg4112 against the following, where simple shapes and monochrome decoration predominate: (HTM) https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/T2wAAOSwKIhdyLrS/s-l300.jpg (HTM) https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Z1QAAOSwbHFib99v/s-l500.jpg [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Brush_holder%2C_early_18th_century%2C_Chinese%2C_hard-paste_porcelain%2C_Honolulu_Museum_of_Art.JPG/514px-Brush_holder%2C_early_18th_century%2C_Chinese%2C_hard-paste_porcelain%2C_Honolulu_Museum_of_Art.JPG[/img] (HTM) https://artlogic-res.cloudinary.com/w_600,h_600,c_limit,f_auto,fl_lossy/ws-anitagray/usr/library/images/main/9372/image-0762.jpg [img width=1280 height=1041] (HTM) https://i.pinimg.com/originals/34/3f/72/343f725a40fc1ff62f31f1b9c5136f63.jpg[/img] (HTM) https://cdn2.picryl.com/photo/1725/12/31/chinese-vase-with-fabulous-animal-walters-49959-8c08ae-1024.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/White_Porcelain_Bottle_with_Orchid_and_Bamboo_Design_in_Underglaze_Cobalt_Blue.jpg/682px-White_Porcelain_Bottle_with_Orchid_and_Bamboo_Design_in_Underglaze_Cobalt_Blue.jpg [img width=1280 height=960] (HTM) https://bellamysworld.com/sites/default/files/products/IB02592B.jpg[/img] (HTM) https://images.antiquesatlas.com/dealer-stock-images/catherine_hunt_oriental_antiques/Ming_17th_Century__Kosometsuke_as073a180z.jpg (HTM) https://s3.eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/aws.rm-auctions.com/thumbnails/width/1000/2017/01/10/b3bf247/a-chinese-ko-sometsuke-blue-and-white-saucer-dish-for-the-japanese-market-transitional-period-1620-1683-1.jpg [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Dish_with_poem%2C_China%2C_Ming_or_Qing_dynasty%2C_porcelain_with_underglaze_blue_-_%C3%96stasiatiska_museet%2C_Stockholm_-_DSC09490.JPG/506px-Dish_with_poem%2C_China%2C_Ming_or_Qing_dynasty%2C_porcelain_with_underglaze_blue_-_%C3%96stasiatiska_museet%2C_Stockholm_-_DSC09490.JPG[/img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/Bowl_with_Design_of_Five_Horses_in_a_Landscape_LACMA_M.2004.216.6.jpg/982px-Bowl_with_Design_of_Five_Horses_in_a_Landscape_LACMA_M.2004.216.6.jpg (HTM) https://artlogic-res.cloudinary.com/w_800,h_800,c_limit,f_auto,fl_lossy,q_auto/artlogicstorage/mitsuifinearts/images/view/9d85227042b4c2fe5a8385a68c24d01aj/mitsuifinearts-artisan-s-name-unknown-ko-imari-arita-ware-sometsuke-waves-and-leaves-set-of-2-c.-17th-century.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Five_Sencha_Cups%2C_by_Tomioka_Tessai%2C_Imao_Keinen_and_Tajika_Chikuson%2C_Honolulu_Museum_of_Art.jpg/1024px-Five_Sencha_Cups%2C_by_Tomioka_Tessai%2C_Imao_Keinen_and_Tajika_Chikuson%2C_Honolulu_Museum_of_Art.jpg [img width=1280 height=853] (HTM) https://www.rm-auctions.com/images/2018/09/10/f8ac5fc/a-pair-of-chinese-blue-and-white-bleu-de-hue-vietnamese-market-cups-and-saucers-neifu-marks-1920th-c-7.jpg[/img] [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Sometsuke-Shochikubaimon-Ozara_from_side_Nabeshima_ware_Saga_Prefectural_Museum.JPG/1024px-Sometsuke-Shochikubaimon-Ozara_from_side_Nabeshima_ware_Saga_Prefectural_Museum.JPG[/img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ad/Bowl_with_maxim_in_Kufic_script%2C_Iran%2C_Neyshabur%2C_10th_century_AD%2C_underglaze_slip-painted_earthenware_-_Aga_Khan_Museum_-_Toronto%2C_Canada_-_DSC06484.jpg/1035px-Bowl_with_maxim_in_Kufic_script%2C_Iran%2C_Neyshabur%2C_10th_century_AD%2C_underglaze_slip-painted_earthenware_-_Aga_Khan_Museum_-_Toronto%2C_Canada_-_DSC06484.jpg [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/Bowl_with_foliated_Kufic_inscription%2C_Iran%2C_Nishapur%2C_10th_century%2C_slip-painted_earthenware_-_Royal_Ontario_Museum_-_DSC04655.JPG/1140px-Bowl_with_foliated_Kufic_inscription%2C_Iran%2C_Nishapur%2C_10th_century%2C_slip-painted_earthenware_-_Royal_Ontario_Museum_-_DSC04655.JPG[/img] [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Bowl_with_Kufic_Arabic_inscription%2C_Samarqand%2C_10th_century%2C_earthenware_with_slip-painted_underglaze_-_Royal_Ontario_Museum_-_DSC04614.JPG/1034px-Bowl_with_Kufic_Arabic_inscription%2C_Samarqand%2C_10th_century%2C_earthenware_with_slip-painted_underglaze_-_Royal_Ontario_Museum_-_DSC04614.JPG[/img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Bowl_with_Kufic_Calligraphy%2C_10th_century.jpg/966px-Bowl_with_Kufic_Calligraphy%2C_10th_century.jpg (HTM) https://cdn2.picryl.com/photo/2015/10/06/bowl-with-maxim-in-kufic-script-iran-neyshabur-10th-century-ad-underglaze-slip-960da8-640.jpg [img width=1280 height=1280] (HTM) https://sothebys-md.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/18ec806/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2000x2000+0+0/resize/2048x2048!/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsothebys-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fmedia-desk%2Ff0%2F6f%2F00678a5e46c4b6ca8d8df0723c40%2Fl22220-c5cpn-02-t2.jpg[/img] [img width=1280 height=1280] (HTM) https://scontent.fhkg4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/60354243_2765316533539912_5328099761834688512_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=973b4a&_nc_ohc=KOK-PO0OgZ4AX_eruEP&_nc_ht=scontent.fhkg4-1.fna&oh=00_AfA6BnJhJdZBCY2a1VCgN4cJF3FTSUaYgClDhNfS6wy2IQ&oe=6447003F[/img] (HTM) https://i.pinimg.com/originals/33/00/ca/3300ca8a5e1d1c65a0262e9349d503f2.jpg (HTM) https://images.museumwnf.org/zoom/objects/epm/gr/21/36/1.jpg (HTM) https://humbermuseums.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/1964.113.3.jpg [img width=1280 height=707] (HTM) https://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/is/original/wb-40.170.25b.JPG[/img] [img width=1280 height=1280] (HTM) https://sothebys-md.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/8582008/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2000x2000+0+0/resize/2048x2048!/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsothebys-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fmedia-desk%2Fc2%2F38%2Fcc38413c45c7a61d11243ddaebe3%2Fl22220-c5cpn-01-t2.jpg[/img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/Tripod_plate_from_Cholula%2C_Postclassic.jpg [img] (HTM) https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-aeayxhbik4/images/stencil/1024x1024/products/241247/1007571/0200-41595-PT-01-Vintage-Hopi-Tewa-Pottery-Bowl__53218.1636470594.JPG?c=2[/img] (HTM) https://www.silvertq.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/PO1012C-copy.jpg [img width=720 height=1280] (HTM) https://i.etsystatic.com/32055796/r/il/fcb9d9/4215127756/il_1588xN.4215127756_t7q6.jpg[/img] [img width=1280 height=854] (HTM) https://www.vintagestuffstore.com/assets/images/IMGP1256%202.jpg[/img] And even in polychrome works, emphasis on unfilled space remains: [img] (HTM) https://www.asianart.com/phpforum/pictures/41418_2010_0203brushpots0009.JPG[/img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Chinese_-_Dish_with_Flowering_Prunus_-_Walters_492365_-_Interior.jpg/1024px-Chinese_-_Dish_with_Flowering_Prunus_-_Walters_492365_-_Interior.jpg [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/Dish_with_hollyhock_design%2C_Nabeshima_ware%2C_Edo_period%2C_18th_century%2C_overglaze_enamel_-_Tokyo_National_Museum_-_DSC06022.JPG/1012px-Dish_with_hollyhock_design%2C_Nabeshima_ware%2C_Edo_period%2C_18th_century%2C_overglaze_enamel_-_Tokyo_National_Museum_-_DSC06022.JPG[/img] (HTM) https://cdn2.picryl.com/photo/2016/06/16/small-bowl-with-thistle-design-lacma-m20042162-a4a6be-1024.jpg (HTM) https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/6pQAAOSwSGRgjDWD/s-l500.jpg [img width=1051 height=1280] (HTM) https://art.thewalters.org/images/art/PS1_48.1301_VwC_DD_T12.jpg[/img] [img] (HTM) https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0571/3405/products/C0102-1_1f1f90e8-6a21-4273-82b2-44fc8cae222d_1024x1024.jpg?v=1678130482[/img] (HTM) https://assets.isu.pub/document-structure/220719200051-cbe773e18bedb8410514d12162191e36/v1/8d2b2775acf550164de719f9c3f434c8.jpeg (HTM) https://assets.isu.pub/document-structure/220719200051-cbe773e18bedb8410514d12162191e36/v1/1177ebac05d4626ce54bc9163bbf1838.jpeg (HTM) https://assets.isu.pub/document-structure/220719200051-cbe773e18bedb8410514d12162191e36/v1/70456170853c70309f91cfc91df6c0c4.jpeg (HTM) https://www.medicinemangallery.com/media/catalog/product/cache/95cdaf4b2e6448d48fbda09e8e8eb0ba/p/2/p2897.jpg (And these, though far superior to the Western ****, would likely have been considered tacky back in their own time. Examples of timelessly superior pottery will be subsequently provided in a separate post.) --- I would like to note that pre-industrial American crocks (which unfortunately fell out of fashion after industrialization) contrast strongly with colonial-era Western styles and could even be argued to be a fresh iteration of indigenous New World styles: (HTM) https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ee/d2/67/eed267d75b3b27f6b4b8e3c6b8c8b4b4.jpg (HTM) https://image.invaluable.com/housePhotos/SouthBay/54/636254/H2373-L159038754.jpg This is what Americans need to get back to considering superior to anything produced by the post-Renaissance Western colonial powers. #Post#: 18621-------------------------------------------------- Re: The superiority of pre-colonial aesthetics By: HikariDude Date: March 26, 2023, 11:20 pm --------------------------------------------------------- "simple shapes and monochrome decoration" I mentioned in a previous post about how NS Uniforms and Spears and Timberlake's denim outfit, though not as simple in shape, were "monotone" (now calling it monochrome) in color. Maybe if you'd like, I would love to see some historically monochrome outfits compared to today's "monochrome" outfits where most of the time, the color is just western dress codes with neon colors that look rather less monochrome in some areas (though still superior than something varied in color like circus or carnival dress). "And even in polychrome works, emphasis on unfilled space remains:" The colors in the polychrome works weren't that emphasized or different from each other. "pre-industrial American crocks" Those you posted don't look too different from the non-western pottery. I theorized about some American cultural elements being influenced from Chinese culture, like the fireworks, thanksgiving (invented by Shennong as harvest thanksgiving), and now the pottery, because I saw Chinese characters in some of the pottery you included that resembled the American pottery. #Post#: 18631-------------------------------------------------- Re: The superiority of pre-colonial aesthetics By: 90sRetroFan Date: March 28, 2023, 12:37 am --------------------------------------------------------- OLD CONTENT contd. As promised, now let us look at the high-quality pottery, which involves even lighter decoration than the previous examples: (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Gr%C3%A8s_chinois_Guimet.jpg/1280px-Gr%C3%A8s_chinois_Guimet.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/Percival_David_Collection_DSCF3119.jpg/1024px-Percival_David_Collection_DSCF3119.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Vas._Song-_eller_Yuan-dynastin%2C_Jun-yao_-_Hallwylska_museet_-_96227.tif/lossy-page1-682px-Vas._Song-_eller_Yuan-dynastin%2C_Jun-yao_-_Hallwylska_museet_-_96227.tif.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/MET_19_56_2_O.jpg/1079px-MET_19_56_2_O.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/MET_DP703022.jpg/1024px-MET_DP703022.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/MET_43477.jpg/922px-MET_43477.jpg (HTM) https://live.staticflickr.com/8617/16407167911_6f45d749fc_b.jpg [img] (HTM) https://madparis.fr/local/cache-responsive/cache-360/dab15eaab5afd65a2c3452da81aa5e92.jpg?1632849189[/img] [img width=894 height=1280] (HTM) https://c8.alamy.com/compes/2b8dj3b/doble-calabaza-en-forma-de-botella-de-sake-en-ingles-japon-durante-el-periodo-edo-1615-1868-siglo-xix-titulo-alternativo-muebles-tokkuri-accesorios-gres-ceramica-seto-con-esmalte-vidriado-y-decoracion-clara-estatura-6-5-8-16-83-cm-diametro-4-1-8-in-10-48-cm-de-regalo-de-james-d-y-veronica-h-roorda-m-2008264-35-arte-japones-siglo-xix-fecha-qs-p571-1850-00-00t00-00-00z-7-2b8dj3b.jpg[/img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9b/Hon%27ami_Koetsu_Fujisan_1.jpg/800px-Hon%27ami_Koetsu_Fujisan_1.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Japanese_-_Tea_Ceremony_Vessel_-_Walters_49234_-_Profile.jpg/665px-Japanese_-_Tea_Ceremony_Vessel_-_Walters_49234_-_Profile.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Aichi_Prefectural_Ceramic_Museum_%2838%29.jpg/1024px-Aichi_Prefectural_Ceramic_Museum_%2838%29.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/Aichi_Prefectural_Ceramic_Museum_%2836%29.jpg/1024px-Aichi_Prefectural_Ceramic_Museum_%2836%29.jpg [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/Large_bowl_Asian_Art_Museum_SF_B84P1.JPG/1024px-Large_bowl_Asian_Art_Museum_SF_B84P1.JPG[/img] [img] (HTM) https://img.fril.jp/img/477788546/l/1452656072.jpg?1641900272[/img] (HTM) https://auctions.afimg.jp/g1073464496/ya/image/g1073464496.1.jpg (HTM) https://cdn2.picryl.com/photo/2021/02/25/eiraku-wazen-sake-bottle-walters-49231-profile-e94c44-1024.jpg A particularly non-Western decorative approach is to deliberately accentuate the microscopic irregularities of the vessel itself, such as by getting the glaze to crack during firing: (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/425203204_640068f512_o.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Percival_David_Collection_DSCF3585_01.jpg/559px-Percival_David_Collection_DSCF3585_01.jpg (HTM) https://cdn.kastatic.org/ka-perseus-images/61a3da032af4ca0611737bdfd5c35a644a079c3b.jpg (HTM) https://p5.storage.canalblog.com/59/37/119589/106571054_o.jpg [img width=1280 height=1224] (HTM) https://image.invaluable.com/housePhotos/eldreds/37/651237/H0011-L179456299_original.jpg[/img] [img] (HTM) https://p1.liveauctioneers.com/188/277488/146207479_1_x.jpg?quality=80&version=1675532530[/img] [img] (HTM) https://images.aspireauctions.com/auctions/2018APR/large/97844-01.jpg?107147841000[/img] (HTM) https://i.etsystatic.com/21387540/r/il/4eebdf/4135562826/il_340x270.4135562826_tiki.jpg (HTM) https://i.etsystatic.com/24424591/r/il/1c8a57/3738898796/il_fullxfull.3738898796_t46s.jpg [img] (HTM) https://openmuseum.tw/files/muse_portal/muse_styles/waterfall_col_4/mcode/fd08542d9fabb260ff2c4b82419e5a78.jpg?itok=qFRlLNQb[/img] --- Looking back to the Western examples, I immediately had flashbacks to my childhood when I would gag when looking at such pottery --- At least we can laugh at Duchesne for not gagging..... And this is just pottery. Wait until we move on to other stuff. I plan to do landscaping next. (By the way, you can post stuff too, you know?) #Post#: 18662-------------------------------------------------- Re: The superiority of pre-colonial aesthetics By: 90sRetroFan Date: March 29, 2023, 10:25 pm --------------------------------------------------------- OLD CONTENT contd. To continue a theme also briefly touched upon here: (HTM) https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/decolonized-housing-(america-edition)/msg5521/#msg5521 in contrast to Western hubrisgardens which emphasize obsessive control: (HTM) https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg4050/#msg4050 let's look at pre-colonial non-Western gardens where the irregularity of the growing elements is welcomed as complementary to the regularity of a non-growing frame: (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Menara_Gardens_%282357045101%29.jpg/1280px-Menara_Gardens_%282357045101%29.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5b/Menara_Bassin_and_Garden_Pavilion%2C_Marrakech_1989.jpg/1280px-Menara_Bassin_and_Garden_Pavilion%2C_Marrakech_1989.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5f/MarrakechMenaraReservoir.jpg/1024px-MarrakechMenaraReservoir.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8d/Menara_pabell%C3%B3n._04.jpg/1280px-Menara_pabell%C3%B3n._04.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Menara_pabell%C3%B3n._05.jpg/1280px-Menara_pabell%C3%B3n._05.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/%D8%B4%D8%AC%D8%B2%D8%B1%D8%A9_%D8%B2%D9%8A%D8%AA%D9%88%D9%86_%D8%A8%D8%AD%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%A6%D9%82_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A9.jpg/768px-%D8%B4%D8%AC%D8%B2%D8%B1%D8%A9_%D8%B2%D9%8A%D8%AA%D9%88%D9%86_%D8%A8%D8%AD%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%A6%D9%82_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A9.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Menara_Garden_%28Marrakech%2C_Moroc%29_03.jpg/1280px-Menara_Garden_%28Marrakech%2C_Moroc%29_03.jpg [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Shalimar_Bagh_2008.JPG[/img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/Shalimar_Bagh_Srinagar_20170807_130508.jpg/1280px-Shalimar_Bagh_Srinagar_20170807_130508.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Shalimar_gardens.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/ShalimarGarden.jpg/1280px-ShalimarGarden.jpg [img width=1280 height=853] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Unnamed2_-_panoramio_%283929%29.jpg[/img] [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Srinagar_-_Shalimar_Gardens_36.JPG/768px-Srinagar_-_Shalimar_Gardens_36.JPG[/img] [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Srinagar_-_Shalimar_Gardens_26.JPG/768px-Srinagar_-_Shalimar_Gardens_26.JPG[/img] [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Srinagar_-_Shalimar_Gardens_20.JPG/768px-Srinagar_-_Shalimar_Gardens_20.JPG[/img] [img width=1280 height=719] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Front_Wah_Gardens.jpg[/img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/View_of_hill_from_Wah_Mughal_Gardens.jpg/1280px-View_of_hill_from_Wah_Mughal_Gardens.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/Pond_in_Wah_Mughal_Gardens.jpg/1280px-Pond_in_Wah_Mughal_Gardens.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Sitting_place_for_kings_over_canals_in_Wah_Mughal_Gardens.jpg/1280px-Sitting_place_for_kings_over_canals_in_Wah_Mughal_Gardens.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Fountain_water_running_up_to_end_of_Wah_Mughal_Gardens.jpg/1280px-Fountain_water_running_up_to_end_of_Wah_Mughal_Gardens.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/Cells_in_Wah_Mughal_Gardens.jpg/1280px-Cells_in_Wah_Mughal_Gardens.jpg [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Mughalgarden-Wah.JPG/1280px-Mughalgarden-Wah.JPG[/img] or where even the non-growing elements are arranged irregularly (such that the only regularity is that of individual structures): [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/Sri_Lanka-Sigiriya-Lustgarten.JPG/1280px-Sri_Lanka-Sigiriya-Lustgarten.JPG[/img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/Sigiriya-palau_inferior2.jpg/1280px-Sigiriya-palau_inferior2.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Sigiriya_0133.jpg/1280px-Sigiriya_0133.jpg [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Sigiriya_terraced_gardens_05.JPG/1280px-Sigiriya_terraced_gardens_05.JPG[/img] [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Sigiriya_terraced_gardens_08.JPG/1280px-Sigiriya_terraced_gardens_08.JPG[/img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Sigiriya_0193.jpg/1280px-Sigiriya_0193.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Sigiriya_0200.jpg/1280px-Sigiriya_0200.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/LK-sigiriya-anlagen-03.jpg/1280px-LK-sigiriya-anlagen-03.jpg [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Sigiriya_boulder_gardens_01.JPG/768px-Sigiriya_boulder_gardens_01.JPG[/img] [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Sigiriya_boulder_gardens_05.JPG/768px-Sigiriya_boulder_gardens_05.JPG[/img] [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Sigiriya_boulder_gardens_07.JPG/1280px-Sigiriya_boulder_gardens_07.JPG[/img] [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Sigiriya_boulder_gardens_10.JPG/1280px-Sigiriya_boulder_gardens_10.JPG[/img] [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Sigiriya_boulder_gardens_13.JPG/1280px-Sigiriya_boulder_gardens_13.JPG[/img] [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Sigiriya_boulder_gardens_16.JPG/768px-Sigiriya_boulder_gardens_16.JPG[/img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Sigiriya_monks_cell1.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8d/Sigiriya%2C_Sri_Lanka_-_panoramio_%28130%29.jpg/770px-Sigiriya%2C_Sri_Lanka_-_panoramio_%28130%29.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/Sigiriya%2C_Sri_Lanka_-_panoramio_%28136%29.jpg/768px-Sigiriya%2C_Sri_Lanka_-_panoramio_%28136%29.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Stone_stairs_at_Sigiriya%2C_Sri_Lanka.jpg/768px-Stone_stairs_at_Sigiriya%2C_Sri_Lanka.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Approach_to_the_Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_-_Chengdu%2C_Sichuan%2C_China_-_DSC04844.jpg/1280px-Approach_to_the_Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_-_Chengdu%2C_Sichuan%2C_China_-_DSC04844.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/DuFuHouse.jpg/1280px-DuFuHouse.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Caotang_Catering_Yulequan%2C_Chengdu%2C_Sichuan%2C_China%2C_610072_-_panoramio.jpg/1280px-Caotang_Catering_Yulequan%2C_Chengdu%2C_Sichuan%2C_China%2C_610072_-_panoramio.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_-_Chengdu_20161121.jpg/1280px-Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_-_Chengdu_20161121.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Caotang_Catering_Yulequan%2C_Chengdu%2C_Sichuan%2C_China%2C_610072_-_panoramio_-_jetsun.jpg/1280px-Caotang_Catering_Yulequan%2C_Chengdu%2C_Sichuan%2C_China%2C_610072_-_panoramio_-_jetsun.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_-_panoramio_%281%29.jpg/1280px-Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_-_panoramio_%281%29.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_-_panoramio_%282%29.jpg/1280px-Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_-_panoramio_%282%29.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/%E6%9D%9C%E7%94%AB%E8%8D%89%E5%A0%82_2.jpg/1280px-%E6%9D%9C%E7%94%AB%E8%8D%89%E5%A0%82_2.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3c/Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_-_panoramio_%284%29.jpg/1280px-Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_-_panoramio_%284%29.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/46/Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_128_%2814428652081%29.jpg/1280px-Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_128_%2814428652081%29.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Gardens_-_Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_-_Chengdu%2C_Sichuan%2C_China_-_DSC04980.jpg/1280px-Gardens_-_Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_-_Chengdu%2C_Sichuan%2C_China_-_DSC04980.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_141_%2814430894154%29.jpg/1280px-Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_141_%2814430894154%29.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_143_%2814245419840%29.jpg/1280px-Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_143_%2814245419840%29.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f4/Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_144_%2814245421150%29.jpg/1280px-Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_144_%2814245421150%29.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a4/Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_146_%2814430899224%29.jpg/1280px-Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_146_%2814430899224%29.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_148_%2814408903816%29.jpg/1280px-Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_148_%2814408903816%29.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_150_%2814452213593%29.jpg/1280px-Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_150_%2814452213593%29.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_152_%2814245431450%29.jpg/1280px-Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_152_%2814245431450%29.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_157_%2814430727692%29.jpg/1280px-Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_157_%2814430727692%29.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_181_%2814428721191%29.jpg/1280px-Du_Fu_Thatched_Cottage_Museum_181_%2814428721191%29.jpg (HTM) 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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Shugaku-in_Imperial_Villa_-_Upper_Garden_waterfall.JPG/1280px-Shugaku-in_Imperial_Villa_-_Upper_Garden_waterfall.JPG[/img] [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/86/Shugaku-in_Imperial_Villa_-_Lower_Garden_b.JPG/1280px-Shugaku-in_Imperial_Villa_-_Lower_Garden_b.JPG[/img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Shugakuin_villa_%284194505958%29.jpg/1280px-Shugakuin_villa_%284194505958%29.jpg [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Nanzen-in_-_Nanzenji_-_IMG_5393.JPG/768px-Nanzen-in_-_Nanzenji_-_IMG_5393.JPG[/img] [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/Korakuen_24.JPG/1280px-Korakuen_24.JPG[/img] [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Heian-jingu_shinen_IMG_5748_0-25.JPG/1280px-Heian-jingu_shinen_IMG_5748_0-25.JPG[/img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Saihouji-kokedera02.jpg/1280px-Saihouji-kokedera02.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/150425_Ishitani_Residence_Chizu_Tottori_pref_Japan22s3.jpg/682px-150425_Ishitani_Residence_Chizu_Tottori_pref_Japan22s3.jpg #Post#: 18673-------------------------------------------------- Re: The superiority of pre-colonial aesthetics By: 90sRetroFan Date: March 30, 2023, 7:50 pm --------------------------------------------------------- OLD CONTENT contd. Supplementing the above post, it is worth pointing out that the (anti-Western) Romantic movement was inspired by non-Western landscaping: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_landscape_garden#The_Anglo-Chinese _garden [quote]The Far East inspired the origins of the English Garden via Holland. In 1685, the English diplomat in The Hague and writer Sir William Temple wrote an essay Upon the garden of Epicurus (published in 1690), which contrasted European theories of symmetrical gardens with asymmetrical compositions from China, for which he introduced the Japanese term sharawadgi.[19][20][21] Temple had never visited the Far East, but he was in contact with the Dutch and their discourse on irregularity in design, had spoken to a merchant who had been in the Far East for a long time, and read the works of European travellers there. He noted that Chinese gardens avoided formal rows of trees and flower beds, and instead placed trees, plants, and other garden features in irregular ways to strike the eye and create beautiful compositions, with an understatement criticizing the formal compositions of the gardens at the Palace of Versailles of Louis XIV of France.[22][/quote] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_landscape_garden#The_Chinese_influe nce_on_the_French_landscape_garden [quote]In 1743, Father Attiret, a French Jesuit priest and painter in service to the Emperor of China, wrote a series of letters describing the Chinese gardens he had seen. In particular he described the Emperor's summer residence, Yuanming Yuan near Beijing: A beautiful disorder reigns almost everywhere. An anti-symmetry. Everything works on this principle: it is a pastoral and natural countryside that one wants to represent: a solitude and not a well-ordered palace following all the rules of symmetry and proportions.[7][/quote] When this non-Western idea was applied to landscaping in Britain/France/etc., immediate improvement resulted (notwithstanding the continued use of lawns.....): (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Stowe_Rotunda.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b8/Stourhead_Pantheon.jpg/1280px-Stourhead_Pantheon.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/Munich%2C_2013_%2810383018573%29.jpg/1280px-Munich%2C_2013_%2810383018573%29.jpg [img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Erm11.JPG/1024px-Erm11.JPG[/img] Note in particular the use of irregular blocks in the last picture. This could be viewed as the beginning of a return to a pre-Western style (Aristotle himself agrees with me on this): (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Encyclopedia_of_antiquities_-_and_elements_of_archaeology%2C_classical_and_medi%C3%A6val_%281843%29_%2814576664438%29.jpg/1024px-Encyclopedia_of_antiquities_-_and_elements_of_archaeology%2C_classical_and_medi%C3%A6val_%281843%29_%2814576664438%29.jpg (HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclopean_masonry [quote]The term comes from the belief of classical Greeks that only the mythical Cyclopes had the strength to move the enormous boulders that made up the walls of Mycenae and Tiryns. Pliny's Natural History reported the tradition attributed to Aristotle, that the Cyclopes were the inventors of masonry towers, giving rise to the designation "Cyclopean".[3][/quote] By the way: (HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclopes#Kinds [quote]According to a version of the story in the Iliad scholia (found nowhere else), when Zeus swallowed Metis, she was pregnant with Athena by the Cyclops Brontes.[29][/quote] Related: (HTM) https://trueleft.createaforum.com/mythical-world/aryan-fortifications/ #Post#: 18682-------------------------------------------------- Re: The superiority of pre-colonial aesthetics By: 90sRetroFan Date: March 31, 2023, 8:42 pm --------------------------------------------------------- OLD CONTENT contd. Responding to our enemies: vdare.com/articles/patrick-j-buchanan-must-the-west-beg-the-worl d-for-forgiveness [quote]Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador has written Pope Francis I and King Felipe VI to demand their apologies for the Spanish conquest of Mexico that began 500 years ago with the "invasion" of Hernando Cortez. ... Now no one denies that great sins and crimes were committed in that conquest. But are not the Mexican people, 130 million of them, far better off because the Spanish came and overthrew the Aztec Empire?[/quote] Let's see: news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1809705.stm [quote]Some 500 years ago when the conquistadores fist laid their eyes on what was then the Aztec capital of Tenochtitlan, they saw an island city connected to the mainland by a series of causeways, a majestic site of floating islands for cultivating crops. Chroniclers at the time called it an "enchanted vision". Not so now. The lake has disappeared and in its place lies a sprawling conurbation of 25 million people. From the mountain vantage point, the city is shrouded in what looks like low-lying cloud. Skyscrapers poke out above the dense and deadly smog caused by cold air sinking down into the city trapping pollution beneath it. "Your eyes smart, your throat stings, you're breathless after just a few steps," ... One-year-old Elva is sitting on her mother's lap with her eyes streaming. Doctors are trying to fit a oxygen mask over tiny face. Elva is one of the hundreds of thousands of children who suffer from chronic asthma across the city.[/quote] (Further information: blog.nus.edu.sg/kylie/2015/03/23/smog-in-our-brains-effects-of-m exicos-air-pollution/ ) Does it look like they are "far better off", you fucktard? [quote]Did not 300 years of Spanish rule and replacement of Mexico's pagan cults with the Catholic faith lead to enormous advances for its civilization[/quote] Before the conquistadors: (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/Painting_of_Tenochtitlan-Tlatelolco_on_Lake_Texcoco_%289755215791%29.jpg/1280px-Painting_of_Tenochtitlan-Tlatelolco_on_Lake_Texcoco_%289755215791%29.jpg [img] (HTM) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYMndYoUMAAoWPo?format=jpg&name=medium[/img] (HTM) https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/20/2018/09/Tenochtitlan-b2f891b.jpg (HTM) https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/stunning-view-teotihuacan-pyramids-avenue-dead-mexico-view-avenue-dead-pyramid-sun-142123563.jpg After the conquistadors: (HTM) https://cdn.getyourguide.com/img/tour/621df0d702c02.jpeg/145.jpg [img width=1280 height=870] (HTM) https://i.natgeofe.com/n/6c02ad5a-977b-4f12-b9c0-02ffb0736e07/metropolitan-cathedral-zocalo-mexico-city.JPG[/img] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Catedral_zacatecas.jpg (HTM) https://live.staticflickr.com/563/32588771216_1e5461cb77_b.jpg You tell me! [quote]Which leads to another question: Are all civilizations and cultures equal, or are some more equal than others? Are some superior?[/quote] They are not equal. Western civilization is uniquely inferior by such a vast margin that to even need to ask the question is an insult to my intelligence. [quote]Have the Western peoples who conquered and changed much of the world been, on balance, a blessing to mankind or a curse[/quote] A curse, not only to mankind but to all sentient beings. [quote]Is the history of the West, though replete with the failings of all civilizations, not unique in the greatness of what it produced?[/quote] Unique indeed in the scale of its violence, and in its hubris. [quote]Or are the West's crimes of imperialism, colonialism, genocide, racism, slavery and maltreatment of minorities of color so sweeping, hateful and shameful they cancel out the good done[/quote] What good done?! [quote]Is the white race, as Susan Sontag wrote, "the cancer of human history"?[/quote] Worse than cancer (which, by the way, is also largely a product of Western civilization). At least Mexicans don't need to be taught not to deliberately get cancer the way they need to be taught not to deliberately get "whiteness": (HTM) https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/reproductive-decolonization/msg2343/#msg2343 Continuing: [quote]must-the-west-beg-the-world-for-forgiveness[/quote] Even your literal Altar of Forgiveness looks like this FFS: (HTM) https://www.hisour.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Altar-of-Forgiveness-Mexico-City-Metropolitan-Cathedral-1280x720.jpg So no, we do not want you to beg for forgiveness. We just want you to die ASAP. ***************************************************** (DIR) Next Page