(DIR) Return Create A Forum - Home --------------------------------------------------------- True Left (HTM) https://trueleft.createaforum.com --------------------------------------------------------- ***************************************************** (DIR) Return to: Issues ***************************************************** #Post#: 2159-------------------------------------------------- Indian attitudes By: 90sRetroFan Date: November 12, 2020, 11:16 pm --------------------------------------------------------- OLD CONTENT contd. (HTM) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAXHXb-HLak Some people (unwilling to confront the ugly truth) say the problem in India is colourism (ie. positive discrimination for lighter-skinned people, negative discrimination for darker-skinned people). If this theory is true, then Northeasterners, who on average are among the lightest-skinned: (HTM) https://ojaifilmfestival.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/What-is-Your-Brown-Number.jpg should tend to receive positive discrimination. But since in reality Northeasterners tend to receive negative discrimination, then what is going on cannot be straightforward colourism. What I suggest is really going on is (as usual) Eurocentrism. Positive discrimination is not for lighter-skinned people per se, but for people who remind the discriminators of their colonizers "whites" (which Northeasterners do not). --- "What I suggest is really going on is (as usual) Eurocentrism. Positive discrimination is not for lighter-skinned people per se, but for people who remind the discriminators of their colonizers "whites" (which Northeasterners do not)." Unfortunately, mere sociological analyses put forth by mainstream media do not suffice to provide an adequate explanation for why such discrimination occurs. I theorize that there may be a genetic component that can be attributed to the behavior of such individuals, namely Turanian blood. For example, it is no coincidence that the conventionally "white" looking individuals (both in terms of skin color and in their approximation towards Eurocentrically ideal phenotypes) in India are the ones that will seek to emulate Western mannerisms, dress, food habits, communication, etc, all of which are not necessarily "American", but which are undoubtedly Western. One could interpret this phenomenon simply as a matter of individuals wanting to solidify their position in the social hierarchy, but it can also be viewed as them aspiring towards the Eurocentric archetypes which naturally appeal to them. The reason I bring up this point is because the sociological explanations can easily be used as a cop out (just as can the "colorism" explanations) by those who are inherently racist and seek to infiltrate anti-racist groups, be it Zionist agents or opportunistic False Leftists. Our message should be clear, if you are a racist, you are not welcome here, irrespective of what part of the world you are coming from. --- "For example, it is no coincidence that the conventionally "white" looking individuals (both in terms of skin color and in their approximation towards Eurocentrically ideal phenotypes) in India are the ones that will seek to emulate Western mannerisms, dress, food habits, communication, etc," Picture examples would be helpful. To test your theory, if genes are causing this, then surely by the same token the Northeasterners who are bullied for looking "chinky") would be more likely to seek to emulate Sinosphere mannerisms/dress/etc.? Do they? (If not, the sociological explanation could account for this by noting that China never colonized India whereas Britain/Portugal/Netherlands did.) "One could interpret this phenomenon simply as a matter of individuals wanting to solidify their position in the social hierarchy, but it can also be viewed as them aspiring towards the Eurocentric archetypes which naturally appeal to them." Another way to investigate your theory is to consider which Eurocentric archetypes appeal most to the Indian Eurocentrists. For example, do they prefer British archetypes or Russian archetypes? If their behaviour is caused by Turanian blood as you propose, they should prefer the latter: (HTM) https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/R1a-thegeneticatlas.png Do they? (Again, if not, the sociological explanation could account for this by noting that Russia never colonized India.) "Our message should be clear, if you are a racist, you are not welcome here, irrespective of what part of the world you are coming from." Definitely. --- www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/lets-talk-about-racism-you-loo k-south-indian-but-your-sister-looks-indian/story-4DgxcpTrZPC7db 9rqziWgM.html [quote]“Aap toh south Indian dikhti hai par aapki behen Indian dikhti hai.” (You look like a south Indian but your sister looks Indian.) These words from a decades-old conversation with a Delhi beautician came back to me when Tarun Vijay, a former BJP MP and ex-editor of the RSS publication Panchjanya, recently tried to defend India against charges of racism. “If we were racist,” he said, “why would have all the entire south [India] which is complete… you know Tamil, you know Kerala, you know Karnataka and Andhra… why do we live with them? We have blacks, black people around us.” (sic) Many south Indians revealed their own white-skin fixation when they protested against Vijay’s comment by objecting to being termed black. It is just as telling that most north Indians would be aghast if they knew that the racial descriptor “black” is used by Europeans and Americans not for people of African origin alone but for Indians too, and not just the dark-skinned among us. The offensive aspect of Vijay’s statement is not in these sensitivities though, but in his condescension, the implication that the north can choose whether or not to “live with them”, and in the othering of the south. It was an attitude echoed all those years back by that woman who blurted out in shock on discovering that my comparatively light-complexioned companion was my sibling: “You look like a south Indian but your sister looks Indian.” Because in her view, the standard Indian is gora and from the north, a dark skin like mine could only belong to a southerner, and a southerner is, of course, ‘the other’. Being a Malayali-born and living in Delhi, I am used to such remarks. In my school years, I remember a reader of The Statesman writing to the editor: “south Indians are our guests” and “we” should be kind to “them”. “You southies have brains, we north Indians have looks,” said a neighbour to Mum one day. These comments, like the oily-haired, aiyyaiyyo-spouting, vibhuti-sporting ‘Madrasi’ stock character in old Hindi cinema, are relatively innocuous manifestations of a problem so deep rooted that most of us scarcely notice it. ... Take colour, for one, in the Indian mindscape. White is a reminder of our colonisers, black the colour of African slaves; white is the dominant colour of today’s superpowers, black we associate with a poverty-stricken wilderness; white is linked to Brahmins i.e. those who work in the shade, black to lower castes i.e. those who work under the sun. It’s complicated and convoluted. North Indians, who tend to consider themselves universally ‘gora-chitta’, bombard light-skinned ‘Madrasis’ with the inexplicable question, “How can you be south Indian?”, and are cruel to ‘kallus’ among their own. Priyanka Chopra once spoke to me in an interview of the ordeal of being black in a Punjabi household. South Indians too deem light lovelier than dark. Meanwhile, suicides have been reported in both regions by victims of colour-related oppression. Here though is a twist in my tale. My experience of colour prejudice pales in comparison with the crushing taunts thrown at one of my closest friends all his life. Kaala kauwa, kaala bhoot, kaala kaloota (black crow, black ghost, blacky), black as coal — he has heard it all, from classmates (in a respected Delhi school, mind you), neighbours, strangers, even relatives and friends. I saw his shoulders wilt in humiliation as a child, and each time my heart broke a little for him. While writing this piece, I asked him why I was not similarly traumatised. Stressing his conviction that the epithets would have remained unchanged if he had been north Indian, he reminds me too that most Indians would not consider me as dark as he is. True. On the Asian Paints Shade Card of Complexions in every Indian’s head, I am 3.946 ‘shades fairer’ than my friend and 5.217 ‘shades darker’ than my sister. In the vocabulary of our contemptible version of racism, then, he is a ‘kaala kauwa’ deserving ridicule, I merit sympathy, and my sister is crowned an ‘Indian’.[/quote] --- The correct way to undermine this is to keep exposing the extent of Eurocentrism/West-worship among a considerable fraction of Indians suffering from colonial trauma: (HTM) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVuudcpW-MY --- www.gqindia.com/content/white-privilege-indian-tinder-gq-india [quote]"I think maybe I'm a racist," writes Charu, 31, 14 kilometres away, active 2 minutes ago. "I only want 2 **** u coz u r white." ... "I want u 2 pee on me. R u into that?" ... But Charu's invitation reminded me of a piece I'd read in MW by Dustin Silgardo, about how men packing more melanin than me felt they weren't getting their fair shakes on Indian Tinder. Like, zero hits, bro. ... In fact, Indian men were complaining the app was broken, or corrupted by a "no matches bug". What other explanation could there be for their datelessness? ... Huh. That's interesting. I hadn't noticed any bugs (beyond the one match, in making the kind of horrible snap judgment so frowned upon on Tinder, whom I suspect may've picked up a few pant-crabs along the way). My Tinder box was full of Indian girls. A fecund amount. Were my Indian brothers really having so much trouble with this? ... So as one might -- as one should, fellas -- like having been diagnosed with a sneaky case of pant-crabs, I contacted my recent Tinder matches to see if our relations had been somehow infec--affected, by my evolutionary lack of skin pigment. "Are you inclined to swipe right on a white guy more than an Indian?" I asked 28-year-old Sonali, a friend whose being on Tinder had initially made me consider that the whole thing might not just be for douche-tubes. ""I would lean towards the white guys," she said, ... She's done this six times since January, and has been on only 10 dates -- one Indian, nine whites. "One led to sex and one was just heavy petting," she wrote. "Both were white." ... Meera said at one point she used to get 25-30 matches an hour and had to turn off notifications. Or maybe you shouldn't right-swipe quite so many dudes? "Ok," I typed. "How many of those Tinder matches turned into real dates?" "Four." "And how many of them led to sex?" "Just one. The white guy." ... "There are so many [women] on there that have really confrontational messages now," complained my 32-year-old Gujju friend Arjun, having noticed the Meeras of Tinder adding conditions and caveats to their profile descriptions recently. ... Well I guess you haven't matched with Charu yet, Arjun. In her case, those proscribed come-on lines above might be welcome. But no. Arjun wouldn't have matched with Charu. Our kinky little housewife is in it for the palefaces. Palefaces that'll **** on her.[/quote] And some people think I exaggerate about Eurocentrism among former formerly colonized peoples..... --- It was just a matter of time before this obvious inconsistency was called out. Now is as good a time as any! www.yahoo.com/huffpost/bollywood-skin-whitening-priyanka-chopra- 195756748.html [quote]Priyanka Chopra — whom Forbes called “arguably the most successful Bollywood actor to cross over to Hollywood” — Sonam Kapoor — winner of India’s prestigious Filmfare Award in 2017 — and Disha Patani — who starred alongside Jackie Chan in the film “Kung Fu Yoga” — were among those criticized for posts promoting social justice and arguing that all skin colors deserve respect. They previously served as brand ambassadors for Garnier, L’Oréal or Pond’s “fairness” creams, which are widely promoted in India as a means of reducing darker skin.[/quote] #Post#: 5712-------------------------------------------------- Indian Attitudes By: rp Date: April 21, 2021, 1:39 am --------------------------------------------------------- Wrong way to rebut Eurocentrists appropriating the word "Aryan": (HTM) https://twitter.com/vakyas001/status/1381834604580122626?s=19 [quote] you must be either christian or stupid. oh wait, they're the same thing. still worshiping a rotting corpse on a stick. mlecchas gonna mleccha. eat beef. drink alcohol. WE WUZ ARYANS N' SHIEEEEET says the corpse-like untouchable. 😂 [/quote] This underestimates the enemy. By attacking them for being "Christian" you are simply leading them to embrace the Turanian religion. Also it is important to distinguish between Judeo Christians and real Christians. At least he doesn't seem to be a racist (Eurocentrist) though: (HTM) https://twitter.com/vakyas001/status/1381769713471135746?s=19 [quote] judaism is the fountainhead of abrahamic exclusivism and bigotry. what is with Hindus in the US/UK sucking up to these abes? abraham is the adi-asura (a demon of old). [/quote] #Post#: 5713-------------------------------------------------- Re: Indian Attitudes By: 90sRetroFan Date: April 21, 2021, 2:51 am --------------------------------------------------------- I am always disappointed to see Indian nationalists bashing Christianity, when they could be taking credit for it instead: (HTM) https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1994-12-25-1994359065-story.html [quote]"Jesus Lived in India." In a nutshell, he proposes that the son of Joseph and Mary traveled to India when young, imbibed the Buddhist philosophy and world view at the feet of Buddhist monks, then returned to propagate his findings among his people in Palestine. ... Mr. Kersten asserts that Christ did not die on the cross but survived and returned to India. In the remote Himalayan land of Kashmir, Jesus (known then as "Issa") lived to a ripe old age as a Buddhist monk, according to Mr. Kersten. His tomb, he says, appears to be situated in the Kashmiri city of Srinagar, where, in point of fact, it is venerated to this day. Whatever the truth about Jesus,the book is a reminder of the extraordinary importance India has exerted through the centuries the human spirit. Ritual baptism and monastic asceticism are among its exports. According to Mr. Kersten, even Jesus' parable of the widow's mite, cited in the Gospel according to St. Mark, seems to be a reworking of an older Buddhist story. Another work of Mr. Kersten, to be published in English next March, enumerates the parallels between the teachings of Jesus and Siddhartha Gautama, the Indian prince and ascetic who founded Buddhism. Mr. Kersten contends that Jesus' original message was hijacked by the Apostle Paul, who introduced new elements, including misogyny and the concept that Christ's death absolved others of their sins.[/quote] This interpretation would still allow them to attack Judaism. #Post#: 5905-------------------------------------------------- Re: Indian Attitudes By: rp Date: April 26, 2021, 3:24 am --------------------------------------------------------- "Indian" promotes Turanians (HTM) https://twitter.com/HinduLiberty/status/1386419692902916096?s=20 [quote]No evidence our ancestors originated in Himalayas or Vedas were composed there. Veda-Shastras contain both spiritual and worldly aspects. Nothing shameful about studying both aspects. 4000 years ago, there were no nation states. Nothing shameful if our ancestors came from steppe [/quote] Turanians must be thought of as anti-Indian. Just because they didn't consider themselves "White" doesn't mean they were not racist against the indigenous Indians. Similarly, just because you don't consider "Whites" Aryan doesn't mean you aren't Eurocentric. Eurocentrism posits that the steppe subhumans were "Aryan", which you agree with. BONUS: He also promotes the Turanian diet: (HTM) https://twitter.com/HinduLiberty/status/1349084000837455872?s=20 [quote]It's ok to have a small portion of prasad. In traditional Vedic shrauta yajnas, animals are sacrificed and the officiating brahmin priests consume a small portion of the sacrificed animal meat. [/quote] #Post#: 5906-------------------------------------------------- Re: Indian Attitudes By: 90sRetroFan Date: April 26, 2021, 4:12 am --------------------------------------------------------- "Turanians must be thought of as anti-Indian." To promote this first requires cultivating pride in pre-Vedic India. "just because you don't consider "Whites" Aryan doesn't mean you aren't Eurocentric. Eurocentrism posits that the steppe subhumans were "Aryan", which you agree with." Strictly speaking, Eurocentric Turanists would believe that the Turanians who migrated west degraded less from mixing than the Turanians who migrated south did. I have encountered some Turanist Hindus who believe the opposite, which is their rationale for supposedly looking down on "whites": they think brahmins are purer Turanians than "whites", and won't shut up about brahmin average IQ test score (~120 ie. even higher than Jews (their emphasis)). These cannot be described as Eurocentric. Example: (HTM) https://www.aei.org/foreign-and-defense-policy/asia/the-ashkenazim-of-india/ [quote]So Brahmins are not same and if you don’t know the IQ of Bengali Brahmins (average with half standard deviation) vary among 110-122 as we Kulin Brahmins(well my ancestors had surname Ganguly) of Bengal have upper limit of IQ 122 which is lot higher than Ashkenazi.BTW 2 most famous pure living Bengali Brahmins are Anandamohan Chakraborty,one of the greatest biologist of 20th century who is more famous for his epic patent win and another one is Anirban Banerjee who Nobel laureate signature award in 2007 in field of Chemistry and there are few inventors o here in USA but the number of highest patents is only 7 who is only 29 year old. ... Well Tam Brahmin compares them with Ashkenazi,But Bengali Brahmin-Baidya say they have produced 5-10 times more laurels in terms of population than AShkenazi Jew.10,00 population in US has produced so many names,so if you change it mathematically to 7 million like Ashkenazi,then Bengali Brahmin-Baidya_brahmin have at least 10 times more achievements than Ashkenazi. So Ashkenazi Jew are far inferior than us Bengali Brahmin-Baidya Brahmin.[/quote] Nevertheless, they measure superiority by Western standards. Western =/= Eurocentric. In any case, don't just respond here, use your Twitter account to challenge the guy directly too! #Post#: 5907-------------------------------------------------- Re: Indian Attitudes By: rp Date: April 26, 2021, 6:17 am --------------------------------------------------------- Another one of the comments: (HTM) https://www.aei.org/foreign-and-defense-policy/asia/the-ashkenazim-of-india/#comment-54303 [quote]Well Bengali hall of fame american Amar Gopal Bose died but we have two other hall of fame inventors still alive-A.Chakraborty,Bedabrata Pain and we have more than 120 Us patents/10000 population. Tamil Brahmin-0 Hall of fame inventor,even rest of India has not produced any American Hall of fame inventor.[/quote] So even possessing a high IQ is not enough for him, he wants innovation! For the record, the Tamil Brahmins are vegetarians, whereas the Bengali Brahmins are not. The Tamil Brahmins also possess the lowest amount (among all other Brahmins) of the precious r1a1a haplogroup DNA favored by Turanists. Coincidence? Perhaps this could account for why Tamil Brahmins, despite possessing high IQs, do not use this intelligence to build more machinery. This is the difference between Aryan and non-Aryan intelligence. "To promote this first requires cultivating pride in pre-Vedic India." The Twitter account I mentioned says the Vedics simply "peacefully" migrated and mixed with the Harappans, and decided to call themselves "Aryan". He is different from the unabashed Turanists who take pride in destroying the Harappan Civilization. While it may be true that some of the Harappans mixed with the Vedics and called themselves Aryan as the IVC was rapidly decaying (beef eating was prominent), it was far from a peaceful migration. Also, the word "Aryan" predates the arrival of the steppe peoples. "I have encountered some Turanist Hindus who believe the opposite, which is their rationale for supposedly looking down on "whites": they think brahmins are purer Turanians than "whites", and won't shut up about brahmin average IQ test score (~120 ie. even higher than Jews (their emphasis)). These cannot be described as Eurocentric." What else do they consider "pure Turanism" though (aside from IQ)? Ritual sacrifice? Turanian diet? "Caucasoid" features? High sexual dimorphism? I mentioned the reverential attitude toward innovation also, but I would like to know if there are others. #Post#: 5922-------------------------------------------------- Re: Indian Attitudes By: rp Date: April 27, 2021, 2:15 am --------------------------------------------------------- (HTM) https://twitter.com/BharadwajSpeaks/status/1382676126040879111?s=20 [quote]Did you know? The word "Ādivāsi" meaning "original inhabitants" was coined by a Christian missionary in 1930. Such a word DID NOT EXIST in Sanskrit. The implication of word is that non tribal Hindus are ALL outsiders to India . They inserted this word even in constitution.[/quote] It wasn't until reading Aryan Diffusion that I learned the so-called "Adivasi" were actually the Vanavasi. This makes sense considering that "Vanavasi" itself means "forest dweller" in Sanskrit, which obviously refers to the primitives whom the IVC people would have encountered. #Post#: 5923-------------------------------------------------- Re: Indian Attitudes By: 90sRetroFan Date: April 27, 2021, 2:54 am --------------------------------------------------------- "IQ" I suggest using the term "IQ test score" instead. Using "IQ" makes it sound like it is something real, whereas "IQ test score" makes it clear that it is merely the score for a particular Western test known as an IQ test. "What else do they consider "pure Turanism" though (aside from IQ)? Ritual sacrifice? Turanian diet? "Caucasoid" features? High sexual dimorphism? I mentioned the reverential attitude toward innovation also, but I would like to know if there are others." I would like to suggest one: ornamentation. Before Turanian diffusion: (HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harappan_architecture [quote]sculpture have no integral role in architecture. They found separately.[/quote] (HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architecture_of_India#Indus_Valley_Civilization_(2600_BCE_%E2%80%93_1900_BCE) [quote]Architectural decoration is extremely minimal[/quote] (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Archaeological_Ruins_at_Moenjodaro-108221.jpg/800px-Archaeological_Ruins_at_Moenjodaro-108221.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/Other_side_of_Moenjodaro_by_Usman_Ghani.jpg/800px-Other_side_of_Moenjodaro_by_Usman_Ghani.jpg After Turanian diffusion: (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/City_of_Kushinagar_in_the_5th_century_BCE_according_to_a_1st_century_BCE_frieze_in_Sanchi_Stupa_1_Southern_Gate.jpg/800px-City_of_Kushinagar_in_the_5th_century_BCE_according_to_a_1st_century_BCE_frieze_in_Sanchi_Stupa_1_Southern_Gate.jpg I find the contrast even stronger in sculpture. Before Turanian diffusion: (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/WLA_brooklynmuseum_Harappa_Miniature_Votive_Images_2.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Valle_dell%27indo%2C_barca_a_forma_di_toro%2C_periodo_kot-dijan%2C_2800-2600_ac_ca._%28coll._priv.%29_02.jpg/800px-Valle_dell%27indo%2C_barca_a_forma_di_toro%2C_periodo_kot-dijan%2C_2800-2600_ac_ca._%28coll._priv.%29_02.jpg After Turanian diffusion: (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Indian_-_A_Votive_Figurine_-_Walters_25249_-_Three_Quarter_Left_%28cropped%29.jpg/483px-Indian_-_A_Votive_Figurine_-_Walters_25249_-_Three_Quarter_Left_%28cropped%29.jpg (HTM) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/MET_DP253249_%28cropped%29.jpg/507px-MET_DP253249_%28cropped%29.jpg #Post#: 5924-------------------------------------------------- Re: Indian Attitudes By: rp Date: April 27, 2021, 3:35 am --------------------------------------------------------- "I suggest using the term "IQ test score" I see. So those who score high on IQ tests may or may not be Aryan depending on what they pursue. Those who score high on the test may merely view it as a means toward an end to obtain greater academic qualifications and thus more money, or they may view it as something worth valuing in and of itself, and hence will value the Western definition of "intelligence" and aspire toward proving the worthiness of this "intelligence" through innovation. #Post#: 6044-------------------------------------------------- Re: Indian Attitudes By: rp Date: May 2, 2021, 2:13 am --------------------------------------------------------- Hindus argue whether their culture is a product of Steppe or Valley blood, and which part they should embrace: (HTM) https://twitter.com/blog_supplement/status/1388017869661908995?s=20 [quote]Something modern H will not like to hear: From the mahAbharata we learn that some of our founding fathers carried out mass hunts of wildlife for food (probably doubled for military training) v.similar to the Chingizid Mongols. That suggest it was possibly an old steppe thing.[/quote] (HTM) https://twitter.com/Hindu_OSINT/status/1388019064816103428?s=20 [quote]Hindu OSINT @Hindu_OSINT Replying to @blog_supplement It's amazing how memories of our Nomadic past still survive even in our second generation scriptures. [/quote] (HTM) https://twitter.com/ImperiumHindu/status/1388119088153579527?s=20 [quote]Hindus have history of indus valley civilization. They are not some barbarians from steppes. Deal with it man.[/quote] I believe there is hope for the third tweeter. While he incorrectly says in another tweet that Vedic culture is from the Indus Valley, he at least possesses enough nobility to reject steppe barbarism as "Hindu" culture. The correct narrative is to recognize that "Hindu" culture does indeed originate in the IVC as etymologically it refers to the religion practiced by the Indus people, but that Vedic culture does not, which by default makes Vedism necessarily anti-Hindu. So as a true Hindu, you should reject Vedism. Contrast this to the Turanists who are happy to claim steppe ancestry (and to add insult to injury claim this makes them "Aryan"), and are proud of the nomadic barbarism of Vedism. ***************************************************** (DIR) Next Page