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#Post#: 6938--------------------------------------------------
Drafting up a Jamia
By: SirGalahad Date: June 5, 2021, 8:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I've taken it upon myself to see how far I can get with drafting
up a "Jamia" by compiling the various canonical and
non-canonical texts of both Christianity and Islam and comparing
them. I've decided that I would start this thread, so I can post
updates. Already, I'm running into major problems:
I've looked into the Gospel of the Holy Twelve and the Gospel of
Barnabas. While I haven't read through them in their entirety
yet, the fact that both of them mention and praise Abrahamic
prophets, as well as affirm the law of the Old Testament,
doesn't bode well. In one part of the Gospel of Barnabas, Jesus
asserts that dogs are better than uncircumcised men (an
Abrahamic view, with a little bit of subtle anthropocentrism
sprinkled on top). I was hoping that I would find at least a
couple of texts that refrain from connecting back to the Old
Testament, but even the texts that are praised the most on the
main site and forum do this. The only text that isn't explicitly
Abrahamic is the Gospel of Thomas, which doesn't really mean
much since the Gospel of Thomas is a sayings gospel. It doesn't
have a narrative. I'm a Gnostic myself, so it pains me to say
that I now realize why the Gnostics were criticized so heavily
back in the day. Every single text that I can find which is
supposed to salvage Gnostic belief, connects back to the Old
Testament, and thus reaffirms the Judeo-Christian narrative
instead. The gnostic texts that do fit our criteria, were
composed centuries after Jesus's death, and usually have
complex, off-the-wall narratives that make it clear that they're
deriving influence from outside of Christianity. I was
particularly excited to crack open the Gospel of the Holy Twelve
since I myself am vegan, only to end up disappointed when I
actually read through some of it. Similar disappointment with
the Gospel of Barnabas, which was supposed to connect
Christianity back to Islam. (Speaking of Islam, another side
note. What are we to make of the core narrative that Mohammed
received his first revelation when he was visited by the angel
Gabriel? Gabriel is an angel from the Old Testament, and is
revered in Judaism.)
I would appreciate any input. It's just frustrating, because
right now, it's basically impossible for me to argue that
Jesus's original intention was to directly oppose the beliefs of
the Old Testament, as well as its god. I would definitely lose
that debate to any Judeo-Christian at least semi-knowledgeable
when it comes to their faith.
#Post#: 6945--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drafting up a Jamia
By: 90sRetroFan Date: June 5, 2021, 11:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I am not sure why you are looking at the Apocryphal Gospels as
part of the Jamia project. I am not saying you shouldn't look at
those Gospels, but this should be a different project. The Jamia
project is strictly about retrieving authentic Mohammedanism.
I would be happy to discuss both projects with you, but please
start another topic for the other project so that they can be
dealt with separately, or else it will get really confusing
fast. Alternatively, if you simply want to discuss the
Apocryphal Gospels, you are welcome to use this topic:
(HTM) https://trueleft.createaforum.com/ancient-world/the-sacred-and-apocryphal-texts/
#Post#: 10590--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drafting up a Jamia
By: christianbethel Date: January 16, 2022, 12:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=SirGalahad link=topic=802.msg6938#msg6938
date=1622944210]
I've taken it upon myself to see how far I can get with drafting
up a "Jamia" by compiling the various canonical and
non-canonical texts of both Christianity and Islam and comparing
them. I've decided that I would start this thread, so I can post
updates. Already, I'm running into major problems:
I've looked into the Gospel of the Holy Twelve and the Gospel of
Barnabas. While I haven't read through them in their entirety
yet, the fact that both of them mention and praise Abrahamic
prophets, as well as affirm the law of the Old Testament,
doesn't bode well. In one part of the Gospel of Barnabas, Jesus
asserts that dogs are better than uncircumcised men (an
Abrahamic view, with a little bit of subtle anthropocentrism
sprinkled on top). I was hoping that I would find at least a
couple of texts that refrain from connecting back to the Old
Testament, but even the texts that are praised the most on the
main site and forum do this. The only text that isn't explicitly
Abrahamic is the Gospel of Thomas, which doesn't really mean
much since the Gospel of Thomas is a sayings gospel. It doesn't
have a narrative. I'm a Gnostic myself, so it pains me to say
that I now realize why the Gnostics were criticized so heavily
back in the day. Every single text that I can find which is
supposed to salvage Gnostic belief, connects back to the Old
Testament, and thus reaffirms the Judeo-Christian narrative
instead. The gnostic texts that do fit our criteria, were
composed centuries after Jesus's death, and usually have
complex, off-the-wall narratives that make it clear that they're
deriving influence from outside of Christianity. I was
particularly excited to crack open the Gospel of the Holy Twelve
since I myself am vegan, only to end up disappointed when I
actually read through some of it. Similar disappointment with
the Gospel of Barnabas, which was supposed to connect
Christianity back to Islam. (Speaking of Islam, another side
note. What are we to make of the core narrative that Mohammed
received his first revelation when he was visited by the angel
Gabriel? Gabriel is an angel from the Old Testament, and is
revered in Judaism.)
I would appreciate any input. It's just frustrating, because
right now, it's basically impossible for me to argue that
Jesus's original intention was to directly oppose the beliefs of
the Old Testament, as well as its god. I would definitely lose
that debate to any Judeo-Christian at least semi-knowledgeable
when it comes to their faith.
[/quote]
Didn't you know? Gnostic Christianity originated from Jewish
mysticism! Now we have to carefully scrutinize the Gnostic text
and excise anything related to Judaism.
#Post#: 10601--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drafting up a Jamia
By: christianbethel Date: January 16, 2022, 3:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=SirGalahad link=topic=802.msg6938#msg6938
date=1622944210]
I've taken it upon myself to see how far I can get with drafting
up a "Jamia" by compiling the various canonical and
non-canonical texts of both Christianity and Islam and comparing
them. I've decided that I would start this thread, so I can post
updates. Already, I'm running into major problems:
I've looked into the Gospel of the Holy Twelve and the Gospel of
Barnabas. While I haven't read through them in their entirety
yet, the fact that both of them mention and praise Abrahamic
prophets, as well as affirm the law of the Old Testament,
doesn't bode well. In one part of the Gospel of Barnabas, Jesus
asserts that dogs are better than uncircumcised men (an
Abrahamic view, with a little bit of subtle anthropocentrism
sprinkled on top). I was hoping that I would find at least a
couple of texts that refrain from connecting back to the Old
Testament, but even the texts that are praised the most on the
main site and forum do this. The only text that isn't explicitly
Abrahamic is the Gospel of Thomas, which doesn't really mean
much since the Gospel of Thomas is a sayings gospel. It doesn't
have a narrative. I'm a Gnostic myself, so it pains me to say
that I now realize why the Gnostics were criticized so heavily
back in the day. Every single text that I can find which is
supposed to salvage Gnostic belief, connects back to the Old
Testament, and thus reaffirms the Judeo-Christian narrative
instead. The gnostic texts that do fit our criteria, were
composed centuries after Jesus's death, and usually have
complex, off-the-wall narratives that make it clear that they're
deriving influence from outside of Christianity. I was
particularly excited to crack open the Gospel of the Holy Twelve
since I myself am vegan, only to end up disappointed when I
actually read through some of it. Similar disappointment with
the Gospel of Barnabas, which was supposed to connect
Christianity back to Islam. (Speaking of Islam, another side
note. What are we to make of the core narrative that Mohammed
received his first revelation when he was visited by the angel
Gabriel? Gabriel is an angel from the Old Testament, and is
revered in Judaism.)
I would appreciate any input. It's just frustrating, because
right now, it's basically impossible for me to argue that
Jesus's original intention was to directly oppose the beliefs of
the Old Testament, as well as its god. I would definitely lose
that debate to any Judeo-Christian at least semi-knowledgeable
when it comes to their faith.
[/quote]
What books are you using?
#Post#: 13510--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Colonial roots of Hating on Muslims, &amp;amp; of Muslim
Nationalism
By: christianbethel Date: May 21, 2022, 6:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
How do we find the good passages in the Quran and separate them
from all the rest?
#Post#: 13516--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drafting up a Jamia
By: 90sRetroFan Date: May 21, 2022, 8:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
(HTM) http://aryanism.net/blog/aryan-sanctuary/dutch-election-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-174466
[quote]You can probably already guess the broad idea:
(HTM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_prophets_of_Abrahamic_religions
Basically, whoever appears in Column 1 must be removed from
Column 3.
Those who remain in Column 3 after this must also be removed if
they (e.g. Luqman) display more qualitative similarity to Column
1 people.[/quote]
Due to the new layout of the Wikipedia page, ignore the Column
numbers given above. Instead, whoever appears under the
"Judaism" column must be removed from the "Islam" column.
Therefore all passages in the Koran referring to the prophets
which we have removed can be removed also. Once you have
finished this, I will let you know the next step.
Where the work was left off:
(HTM) http://jamiaproject.wordpress.com/
#Post#: 13534--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drafting up a Jamia
By: christianbethel Date: May 22, 2022, 11:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I would like to contribute to this project to the best of my
ability. Tell me what you need me to do.
#Post#: 13547--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drafting up a Jamia
By: 90sRetroFan Date: May 22, 2022, 8:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
What I said in the previous post:
[quote]whoever appears under the "Judaism" column must be
removed from the "Islam" column. Therefore all passages in the
Koran referring to the prophets which we have removed can be
removed also.[/quote]
Start a new blog and post the link here so that we can keep
track of your progress. Post on the blog each passage you have
removed.
#Post#: 13553--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drafting up a Jamia
By: christianbethel Date: May 22, 2022, 9:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Do you mind if I use the blog I already have? It already
contains revisionist material.
Update: Which English translation of the Quran should I use?
Update: At present this is the list of prophets I have compiled
from the aforementioned Wikipedia page. Please notify me of any
outliers that need to be removed or omissions that need to be
added:
True Prophets
Druze
[list]
[li]Zoroaster[/li]
[li]Akhenaten[/li]
[li]St. George?[/li]
[li]al-Yafuri[/li]
[li]Pythagoras[/li]
[li]Empedocles[/li]
[li]Plato[/li]
[li]Socrates[/li]
[li]Jesus[/li]
[li]Luke[/li]
[li]Matthew[/li]
[li]Mark[/li]
[li]Democrates[/li]
[li]Muhammad[/li]
[li]Salman al-Farsi[/li]
[li]Ali[/li]
[li]al-Hakim[/li]
[li]Hamza[/li]
[li]Muhammad ibn Wahb al-Qurashi[/li]
[li]Abu�l-Khayr Salama ibn Abd al-Wahhab al-Samurri[/li]
[li]Isma�ll ibn Muhammad at-Tamimi[/li]
[li]Baha al-Din[/li]
[li]Ad-Darazi[/li]
[/list]
Islam
[list]
[li]Salih[/li]
[li]al-Khidr[/li]
[li]Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha)[/li]
[li]The Virgin Mary[/li]
[li]John the Baptist[/li]
[li]Jesus[/li]
[li]Muhammad[/li]
[/list]
Christianity
[list]
[li]John the Baptist[/li]
[li]Jesus[/li]
[/list]
#Post#: 13555--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drafting up a Jamia
By: 90sRetroFan Date: May 22, 2022, 10:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"Do you mind if I use the blog I already have?"
It would be neater to start a new one. But if for some reason
you cannot, I'd rather you just use this topic, purely in order
to avoid mixing up content.
"Which English translation of the Quran should I use?"
Any, as long as you use the same one for the entire project and
state clearly which one you are using.
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