Subj : SBBS/W32 Kermit SABOTAGE To : NANCY BACKUS From : MICHEL SAMSON Date : Fri Nov 26 2004 10:13 pm Hi Nancy, About "SBBS/W32 Kermit SABOTAGE" of November 22: SH> Support for a platform has to come from users of that platform. MS> ...the `MS-Kermit' terminal is OK on `SBBS'... Was this a topic- MS} steering attempt?... ...Wayne Warthen's `Kermit for `Win-16/32' MS} (which is FreeWare) just hangs the session and reveals how *WEAK* MS} `SBBS's *INTERFACE* to external (`Kermit') protocol drivers can be! SH> I have no data on Wayne Warthen's implementation. MS> ...it can fly at over 25K7 cps... It's a mid-nineties 3rd-party MS> version where the `Kermit' packet-size is a thousand bytes... SH> ...provide simple instructions... All the SysOp will have to do is SH> add the protocol driver. We are not knowingly sabotaging kermit. MS> `MSK.INI' was more "Ready-Made" in 2003 than Rob's setup is now!... MS> Cut here --> -------[ http://public.sogetel.net/bicephale/MSK.INI ]- SH> Not sure what the deal was... MS> ...clues... http://public.sogetel.net/bicephale/Vert-801.QWK.ZIP SH> ...there is no reason to use a 7-bit paranoid Kermit. MS> ...SysOps (like Gregg...) can't manage... ...even if using Control MS> Character Escaping costs a lot in terms of overhead... ...transfer MS} will be better than an hesitating `ZMoDem'... ...i'm not liable MS} for Rob's decision to render his `Kermit' support restrictive... NB> ...the only* protocol that I could use with Telnet uploads was NB> kermit (the slow original), as Zmodem only worked for downloads... I can see three main episodes in `Kermit's evolution: the pre-1985 period in which `BBBS-Kermit' and `WC-Kermit' belong (these relics serve anti-`Kermit' campaigns better if you ask me), the 1985-1995 period (the FreeWare from Wayne Warthen belongs there) and then the post-1995 period (where `Kermit' became a viable alternative to `ZMoDem' via ~TelNet~ for *ALL* ~FOSSIL~-based BBS systems - and a few more, if an ~UART~ emulator such as `SIO'/`VMoDem' happened to be available). The `MSK.INI' feature Stephen refered to was intended to DownGrade `MS-Kermit' just enough for `WWKfW-16/32' to be supported, pre-1985 `Kermit' is out of this picture. NB> I was very thankful to find NB} that ["that"=`MSK.INI' Nov. 9 "Kermit [7]-Bits Binary" item!?] NB> 7-bit paranoid Kermit available... It's easy to get BBSers mixed up about the protocol so i must clear this up. The `Kermit' "7-Bits Binary" macro i refer to in `MSK.INI' and `UlProt.ASC' is a completely separate topic and it's not on my wish-list (not even Stephen's, i guess) to cripple `MS-Kermit' so much it would be equivalent to a 3rd-party archaic implementation... I do understand why you appreciated having `WC-Kermit' when you needed it, nonetheless! ;-) ^^^^^^^^^ My `MSK.INI' setup refers to a 7-Bits `MS-Kermit' option but that's not definitive: Rob Swindell pretends to produce setups from the top of his head which he declares to be "Ready-Made" before the testing is over but i don't; more clearly, i could have called it "Fool-Proof" `Kermit' or whatever but the point is i made this label reflect the feature TO BE EVALUATED and, since it's Work-on-Progress, this is where i'm stuck now. I'll focus on choosing a proper label once i've determined what set of `MS-Kermit' parameters allow participating `SBBS/W32' SysOps to offer `WWKfW-16/32' support; considering that it took fifteen months to agree on publishing one single ~URL~, it won't be soon but they're free to use only *BASIC* `MSK.INI' macros and to wait for others to finalize it all. NB> ...I can now use Zmodem for my telnet uploads as well... Not everyone could resist the temptation to just run `{Commo}' over `RLFossil' (which i've done on a regular basis for years), determination is something i respect but the passage of time makes most frustrations a bit irrelevant in the end... At that rate, `Windows' might no longer be a "popular alternative" when the time has come for you to migrate, hence `WWKfW-16/32' won't help neither, i bet! ;-> A Transgenic human of the future probably won't require external devices to BBS but, until then, a `Win-16/32' user who isn't satisfied with `ZMoDem' over ~TelNet~ has too few FreeWares to toy with and no `SBBS' .INI supports `WWKfW-16/32' yet. As i wrote before, DOS ~TelNet~ `ZMoDem' or `Kermit' work for me so `RLFossil'/`{Commo}' or sound `Kermit' setups are what i got to share in order to promote BBSing, others may have unresolved issues of their own. NB> Choices are good. They certainly are! :) The matter is often to get them supported, though; it doesn't help much when Stephen brings ~FTP~/~HTTP~ solutions on topic and he doesn't point at any DOS-compatible servers, actually... Salutations, ;-> Michel Samson a/s Bicephale http://public.sogetel.net/bicephale/ .... Rob's SBBS/Kermit: use spare-time to try a subtle type of SABOTAGE! --- MultiMail/MS-DOS v0.45 - Help TelNet OLMR BBSing to become UNIVERSAL * Origin: BBS Networks @ www.bbsnets.com 808-839-6036 (1:10/345) .