>Is that the criteria? Length of time that the work of art survives?
It's certainly an indicator, but not the only criterion.
>Now you're guilty of exactly the thing I accused you of: judging HIStory
>by standards more correctly applied to classical music.
Form and content aren't fair critera for HIStory, while they are for
classical music?
>Listening to Michael Jackson isn't about intricate melodies and extended
>study.
That's the point --- HIStory isn't about *anything*! What would you say
it's about? What can you possibly say about its artistic merit? If
nothing, you have to reconcile this with the logical conslusion of the
relativistic view, which is that we *can't make any judgments* about
HIStory vs. Bach.
>I don't believe you can't make artistic judgments (once again, THE BRIDGES
>OF MADISON COUNTY - YECH!) but I do believe that the further and further
>apart the goals of two "artists" are, the more meaningless such comparisons
>become.
How can I agree totally with you here and still find your general view of
these things to be so silly? :)
To bring it back on topic before I give in: This began with the assertion
that IF couldn't be artistic. Then several others argued that while it
could be, it would be unfair to judge all games against these artistic
ones, and against "artistic standards."
I think it's perfectly fair to judge UU2, Uncle Zebulon's Will, +=3, or
any other work of IF against artistic criteria. If the result is that "the
work sure isn't art, but it was Dam Amusing (tm)", what's the big problem?
If that's what you set out to write, why be less than happy with such a
review?
>These are fuzzy things here. You seem to want hard-and-fast numerical
>ratings on things, and that just can't be done - it's ART!
That's NOT what I either expect or want. I want analysis that accords with
our common sense judgments. Judgments like "UU2 is a throwaway worth maybe
a few laughs and a few days of challenge, while St. Matthew's Passion is a
moving work, a tremendous achievement, and a genuine git to humanity."
Different genres? Different media? So what; the sensibility of this
judgment is clear --- anyone familiar with both works who would "rank" them
differently with respect to each other needs his head examined.
I want a view of art and aesthetics that matches (for the most part)
widespread views of those familiar with the art(s) in question. It seems
to me that your alternative is to throw up your hands and call UU2 and
St. Matthew's Passion incomparable.
>(Perhaps we should continue this in e-mail; while it might be sort of
>interesting to this group, since they might get an idea why you wrote
>LEGEND and I wrote UNNKULIAN UNVENTURE 1, it's become sort of off-topic.)
I'd say art and aesthetics are fair game here, but I'll call "Uncle" and be
done with it anyway. :)
Dave Baggett
__
dmb@ai.mit.edu
"Mr. Price: Please don't try to make things nice! The wrong notes are *right*."
--- Charles Ives (note to copyist on the autograph score of The Fourth of July)