From: meshe@clinic.net (CreeD) Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade Subject: VF3 throw FAQ v. 0.6 :) Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:07:07 GMT Organization: The Destek Group, Inc. Lines: 1187 You FAQ writers know how it is. There's this initial burst of inspiration and then you run out of gas. After about two bursts of writing, what follows is the product of about two hours of typing, maybe three. Nobody will believe that I'm sure.. anyway, it should format pretty well on most browsers, I intentionally made narrow margins. PLEASE send comments and corrections. There's a lot of stuff where I've just drawn a blank. There's other stuff where nobody can confirm exactly what's going on. Anyway, half of it is done, the other half is gonna be even longer because I'm describing every throw in the game and what's notable about it :) auieeegUh! ---------------------- *[Cheese!@]*[Cheese!@]*[Cheese!@]*[Cheese!@]*[Cheese!@]*[Cheese!@]* -The Virtua Fighter 3 XXXXXXXXX [ X ] X X H R O W I N G X _X_ ==XXXXXXX X ] XXXX; X A Q X _X_ *Written by CreeD!* *With dinky ASCII art!* *Whipped up in no time at all!* *Big Legal disclaimer at bottom!* -plus throw escape guide, absolutely free!- Contents: -------------------- I. Intro. II. Notation. A. Mini-Intro. B. Controls and VF shorthand. C. Buttons. D. Assorted shorthand abbreviations. III. Basics of Throwing. A. What's a throw? B. How do I throw? C. The different throw types. 1. Normal throws. 2. Catch throws. 3. Multi-throws. 4. Low throws. 5. Side throws. 6. Back throws. 7. Ground throws. 8. Wall throws. 9. Back-turned throws. 10. Hit throws. D. Technical Details. IV. Throw Strategies A. When should I throw? B. What's ticking? 1. Why ticking works. 2. Who can tick, and how. 3. When to tick. V. Big Legal Disclaimer. VI. Assorted Thanks. VII. Secret Message. SECTION ONE: The intro. ----------------- I'll keep this brief, because to do otherwise would be pointless and time consuming. I wrote this because I felt the hankering to see really basic stuff like this put down on paper for all those who are trying to learn what is, in my opinion, a difficult aspect of an already difficult game. I also think there should be more useful stuff along these lines posted in RGVA in the first place, so I'm hoping my efforts will be a cue to others, and will inspire them to put their own knowledge and ideas down in some form that is more substantial than a handful of Usenet posts. Really, it'd be a good idea if EVERY experienced VF3 player who could spare the time would put down some of the stuff that is second nature to him, and to most of the rest of us.. ---but has only become so after much practice and experimentation. SECTION TWO: Notation. -------------------- I assume the reader already has some sort of experience with Virtua Fighter 3, or at least Virtua Fighter 2. This knowledge will come in extremely handy when I discuss different points in this FAQ. The casual reader should probably take a second to check out some of the other excellent FAQ publications on these games. The place to stop first and foremost for these handy guides is The Home of Virtua Fighter, an excellently organized web page dedicated to Virtua Fighter 2 AND 3. There is a frame enhanced version and a no-frames version of this page, the URL is: www.vfhome.com ... be sure to pick either VF2 or VF3 and then look under the FAQS/ GUIDES header for more info. Okay, to the nitty gritty. All throws in this game, with NO exceptions, are performed by hitting the punch and guard buttons at the same time or in a few cases hitting punch, kick, and guard at the same, usually in conjunction with joystick taps or the more complex joystick roll motions. Every character in the game has a basic, low damage throw that can be done simply by hitting punch and guard at the same time with NO joystick movement. By adding joystick movements to your punch-and-guard button taps, you will be able to create more complex, interesting throws (usually) that are harder for the opponent to break out of. A good rule of thumb to go by is this: The more complex the joystick motion is that is associated with a throw, the more damage that throw probably does. For example, if Jeffry hits punch and guard with no joystick motion, he gets a fireman's carry throw that does 60 points of damage. If Jeffry hits back on the joystick and punch and guard, he will get the military press throw, which does 75 points of damage but ALSO sets up a guaranteed stomp on the opponent's skull afterwards for extra damage and of course more entertainment value ;) . Neither of these throws though is as effective as the crucifix piledriver, which looks the most painful and >IS< the most painful, delivering 80 points of damage and ALSO giving Jeffry the opportunity to stomp on his opponent or try for the riskier light pounce. That throw requires two diagonal joystick taps to do though so it's harder and takes a split second longer to pull off than the other two throws. Controls and VF shorthand: There are eight joystick directions, most of which are used for different throws by different characters somewhere in the game. Here are their abbreviations and what they all mean: - f or F: Stands for, respectively, a light tap or longer continuous (forward) press in the direction of your opponent. This applies even in situations where your back is turned. b or B: Stands for, respectively, a light tap or longer continuous (back) press away from your opponent. Again, this applies even when your back is turned. d or D_: Stands for, respectively, a light tap down or a longer (down) continuous press that should result in a crouch. u or U_: Stands for, respectively, a light tap or continuous press (up) of up on the joystick. d/f or D/F: Stands for, respectively, a light tap or longer (down-forward) continuous press of the diagonal between down and forward on the joystick. d/b or D/B: Stands for, respectively, a light tap or longer (down-back) continuous press of the diagonal between down and back on the joystick. u/f or U/F: Stands for, respectively, a light tap or longer (up-forward) continuous press of the diagonal between up and forward on the joystick. u/b or U/B: Not used, hell with it. As you can see, all capitalized directional notations indicate that you should press the appropriate joystick direction for about a quarter of a second in the direction indicated. Buttons: There are only three we'll be dealing with in this FAQ. Those buttons are punch, guard, and kick. They are abbreviated like this: P : stands for punch. G : stands for guard. K : stands for kick. + : indicates to hit the buttons and/or joystick motion at the same time. , : the comma is used to indicate that you must enter consecutive joystick motions quickly, e.g. f,b means to tap forward and then tap back. P+G: stands for hitting punch and guard at the same time. You'll see it a lot. It's the most basic throw in the game. P+K+G: stands for hitting the three buttons punch, kick, and guard all at the same time. You will only see this in reference to low throws, which I define later. Quiz time: if you've read this correctly, you should be able to tell me what each of these means. 1. b,f,f+P+G Time's up. This means you should tap, not hold, back on the stick, then tap back on the stick again, then forward on the stick.. and at the same time as you hit forward, you should hit the punch and guard buttons too. Yes, this is an actual throw in the game. 2. D_,b+P+G If you came up with hold down, and then hit back and punch and guard all at the same time, go get yourself a cookie, that's correct. You basically want to crouch and then hit back on the stick with your usual throw buttons in order to pull this one off. Yes, this too is an actual throw in the game, throws that must be done FC are a new to the VF series. 3. d/f,D/F,P+G. This is the equivalent of one quick diagonal tap and then a second, extended tap in the same direction followed almost immediately by the punch-and-guard press. This is a modification of an existing throw that has been around since VF1, the crucifix piledriver. 4. d/f+P+K+G. If you read this correctly, you are to tap the joystick diagonally at the same time as you hit punch, kick, and guard. The four inputs must be simultaneous. Shorthand and Abbreviations: Catch: Signifies that the throw is a catch throw, which I'll define later. Multi: Signifies the starting motion for a multithrow. The rest of the multithrow will be shown below it and indented. I will try to 'tree out' the various multithrow options clearly and concisely. (more on multithrows later). Setup: This signifies that the throw sets up some kind of followup, whether it's a combo, a single strike, or something else. Low : Indicates that the throw only works on crouching opponents. Note That there is possibly an exception in the case of a sitting Shun Di; he is so low to the ground that he is considered low although he is not technically crouching. Side : Signifies that the throw is a side throw. That means it will activate if you are basically facing your opponent's side, more than thirty degrees off their front or back. It is possible to do low throws from the side as well, creating a new subcategory, the low side throw. Back : Signifies that this throw is a back throw and will only work if you are basically facing the opponent's back, give or take a few degrees. Ground : Signifies that the throw only works on a prone opponent, meaning an opponents who has been knocked down or otherwise slammed or tossed onto the ground. The opponent must not be moving or attacking for the ground throw to work. Wall : Designates throws that change when they are done when either you or your opponent is near a wall. Some wall throws require you to have your back to the wall, others require that the *opponent* has his back against a wall. To clarify which is needed I'll type a short descriptive such as "your back to the wall:" or "opponent's back to the wall:" Hit : This is a special type of throw that I'll save for last.. it's fairly unusual because it breaks some of the standard rules of throwing. A "hit" throw is a throw that ONLY works for special circumstances where the opponent has been hit by a specific attack. Your character will, after connecting with the attack, automatically grab the opponent if you input the correct motion, apparently during the opponent's hitstun. This adds functionality to some of the seemingly useless attacks in the game such as Jeffry's toe kick. It is unknown at this point whether hit throws can be escaped the same way normal throws can. * : the asterisk signifies a special note about the throw if it behaves unusually or is worthy of note in some way. SECTION THREE: The Basics. ------------------------ What's a throw? I had a lengthy explanation of what exactly constitutes a throw but I've decided to axe it in favor of something more concise and useful. I'm going to assume that the reader has SOME vague idea of what I mean when I say 'throw'. Throwing the opponent is for the most part simply grappling with them at close range with the intention of inflicting damage. -Here are some GENERAL rules about what constitutes a throw, and a little on the usage. *Throws USUALLY involve one character grabbing the other and then either slamming them into the ground, tossing them, or bashing them repeatedly with attacks. 90% of the throws in the game start with one character grappling with their opponent, but there are a few exceptions. Some throws look like a strike or series of strikes, but unlike most of the strikes in the game, the throw-strikes can never be blocked. *It is possible to escape a throw. That means almost ANY throw can, with the proper command and timing, be escaped or otherwise avoided/ defeated by the victim of the throw. This aspect of throw strategy is covered in another FAQ. *The only throws that can NOT be escaped are catch throws. More on that later. *No throw, even the ones that look like strikes, can be blocked. They can be escaped, avoided, and even interrupted, but never blocked. Your first instinct may be to defend the first few times wolf rushes at you with his running tackle throw for example (f,f+P+G) ... break that habit. *As a general rule, you cannot throw an opponent if the opponent is attacking. You can throw them AFTER their attack or attack sequence has finished, but not during an attack. There are exceptions to this rule. Specifically, it is possible to throw a person during the first FRAME of their attack, regardless of what attack they are attempting. All that means is that if you throw someone at literally the EXACT same time that they hit the button to attack you, your throw will win, but if you tried throwing them a fraction of a second later, the throw will whiff and their attack will win. *Normal throws have no execution time. That means that, unlike attacks, they can be done INSTANTLY, and if the conditions are correct for a throw at the moment you hit P+G, then the throw will happen immediately. *Normal throws DO have recovery time if the throw failed. When you attempt a normal throw on someone (this includes low throws, back throws, side throws, and ground throws) the conditions for the throw have to be correct in order for it to occur. When they aren't correct, then your character will reach out and make a grasping motion with their hands. The grasp motion is small but obvious and takes a few frames to recover. For catch throws, there is also recovery time and in every case catch recovery is longer. During the grasp motion, you are vulnerable to any throw or attack in the game, and cannot block or otherwise move. This is, IMHO, a rather obvious and EXTREMELY beneficial change to the gameplay since VF2. Throw attempts no longer come out as attacks, which can alternately be 'good' or 'bad' for specific characters.. it's "bad" for sarah, kage, lau, jeff, and jacky that they cannot attempt a throw that will come out as an elbow if the opponent crouches. It's also "bad" for akira, who cannot attempt the surprise exchange over and over and merely get a low jab. On the other hand, in the case of throws such as jacky's trip and hammer or lion's pull-in uppercut throw, it's much BETTER that there is now a standard whiff animation as opposed to the big, easily punished attacks that used to result from failing to connect these throws. *Catch throws DO have execution time. Like attacks, they require a certain amount of time to execute before they will be effective. Until that time has passed, the catch throw is 'inactive'.. it won't work, no grabbing animation or damage will occur. After the inactive time has passed, a throw will become 'active', although it may only remain active for a very short amount of time. As long as it's active, it has the potential to grab opponents, even if they are attacking (although it's rare to grab people out of attacks.. the attack would have to come out fairly slowly). It is not known yet if a major counter bonus is awarded if a catch throw interrupts an attack. Even if the conditions for a catch throw are correct at the moment you hit P+G, the conditions might change in the short space of time between your attempt to throw and the time the throw becomes active. Therefore, you want to use catch throws ideally when conditions will not and cannot change during your throw's execution. That means that a good situation for a throw attempt would be during the recovery of a move that your opponent failed to connect with. *If the recovery of a missed attack is greater than the execution time of the catch throw you want to try, then in effect you will be able to use a throw on your opponent "for free"* .. Meaning that they literally cannot do anything about the throw, since catch throws are completely inescapable once they connect. This is not the case for normal throws so it can be useful to make a habit of minor countering slow recovery moves with catch throws. *A throw beats a dodge, regardless of the timing of the dodge or the type of throw. Hence, when the opponent gets cute by dodging most or all of your attacks, start throwing. It is confirmed that a throw will even grab opponents out of dodging attacks such as the special K+E [,G] dodge. *There is a minor counter bonus applied to throws. While I don't have the exact figures, according to some sources (Rich Williams on RGVA) the minor counter bonus is much, much smaller than it was in VF2. Therefore, when you throw opponents during the recovery of their attacks, your throw will do more damage than usual, but apparently the bonus is only about 5% more damage, not the impressive 25% bonus seen in VF2. The minor counter bonus only applies to the first chunk of damage done by a throw, so that if the throw does damage in multiple parts, the bonus for that throw on minor counters will be somewhat small compared to the damage for a similarly damaging throw that takes off its damage all in one large piece. Presumably, the minor counter bonus applies to any and all throws including catch throws. It is not known what kind of bonuses, if any, can be applied to ground throws. *There are a few rare instances where a throw does not even LOOK like a grappling maneuver because it appears to be a strike, or a series of strikes that the opponent cannot defend against. Regardless of the throw's animation, though, once the throw is successful it will always animate the same way and always cause the same results on the opponent, whether the results are a loss of energy or merely a loss of orientation. Q: How do I throw? *If you want the specifics listed, skip to the next section and read on. If you want a general written out explanation, that follows this little disclaimer. Well, the obvious answer to the question is to get really close to your opponent and hit P+G and maybe a direction or two on the joystick when you're really sure that your opponent isn't attacking, but that doesn't cover much of anything. Because each character is limited to a specific set of throws that they are able to perform, you often will have to choose your throwing tactics more wisely in human vs. human battles than you did in VF2, especially now that most throws can be escaped. If you refuse to vary your throwing strategy, you might find that you will tend to keep eating huge attacks every time you make it obvious that you're trying to sneak in close for a throw. It is almost impossible to throw a person while they are attacking, and in most cases it's -completely- impossible unless you're using a special type of throw known as a catch throw. Even then, you're not likely to be able to grab opponents predictably. If you don't vary your throwing habits once you ARE close enough to grab, you will find that your throws will keep being escaped by astute opponents, and you will never get to damage them until your strategy changes. That's why I'm also making a complete throw escape guide, which will cover all the throws that you should watch out for, and which throws you want to mix into your throwing strategy as well. You want to make it hard for the opponent to correctly guess both -when- you are going to throw them, and -which throw- you will use when you DO throw them. Do not assume that you can catch throw them all the time either, because although a catch throw is inescapable and can interrupt attacks, it can also easily BE interrupted. Catches can ALL actually be escaped by the simple act of crouching too, so if your opponent figures out that you're fond of a particular catch throw, they can duck to make it whiff over their heads, which is more dangerous for you since the whiff animation for catch throws is longer and more obvious than it is for regular throws. =The throw types.= Every throw in the game can be classified as one of ten types, but that statement is deceptive because it makes VF3 throws sound even more complex than they already are. 90% of the throws in the game fall into two categories, "regular" throws and "catch" throws. These are the throws that most of your concentration should go to. The other throws such as low throws and ground throws, or side throws and back throws, don't have as many details to worry about, so try to learn the specifics of normal throws and catch throws before you worry about side throws, ground throws, etc. -Regular/Normal throws- These are the most common throws. All regular throws can be escaped. All regular throws have no startup animation, which means that they will execute instantly if possible, and they all have the exact same whiff animation. Every character has at LEAST three or four regular throws. The easiest way to test whether a throw is a regular throw is to see if it has a small grasping whiff animation or a more obvious whiff animation such as a lunge forward or hop. Every character has a neutral P+G normal throw that is in most cases one of their least effective throws, but is easy to do and harder to escape than you'd think. If you are unsure about the throwing abilities of your chosen character, neutral P+G is always a safe bet that should produce mediocre results. Often I will hear throws other than the P+G throw referred to as "command throws" but I believe that classifying them this way, and hence separating them from other throws, is misleading. Where before (in VF2) neutral P+G was considered a 'bad' throw for every character and uniquely, specifically bad because it was always escaped, it now has a higher status and belongs on the same level as most other throws in the game, as a useful, generic technique. If you insist on trying for a flashy throw, you probably want a throw that requires special joystick motions, but if you want fast and reliable damage that people often fail to escape properly, or if you want to surprise the opponent with a running grab, neutral P+G's are quite handy. The lack of joystick motions allow you to do the throw instantly, and this is really useful in situations where a split second is all that separates you from throwing and from being thrown (such as the F+E run in throw technique: if your opponent sees you run in and you stop in front of him for a split second while you do a b,f motion on the joystick or a more obvious d/f, d/f motion, they might interpret that sudden stop correctly as your attempt to throw them, and counter a split second before you hit P+G with their own P+G throw). -Catch throws- All catch throws share some technical attributes but have unique uses that really depend on the situation. The similarities between all catch throws though is that they cannot be escaped, and that they have execution time and in most cases larger than average recovery. They all can be avoided by crouching. There are no low catch throws in the game. If your reflexes are good, you may choose to try to knock opponents out of catch throws with attacks, although this is difficult in the case of all but the most obvious catch throw attempts. Generally you're better off avoiding catch throw attempts by anticipation (followed by a quick crouch to make the throw attempt whiff over your head). Once a catch throw has been missed, punish at will. The best advice I can give for usage of catch throws is to use them when you anticipate that your opponent will defend high. They're not perfect for use as minor counter throws because of their slight execution time, but they are good for a surprise when used offensively. For the faster catches, such as Wolf's f+P+G, you can reliably minor counter attacks that have a fair amount of recovery. Otherwise, mix catch throws in with midlevel attacks to bait the opponent into blocking high and getting 'caught'. You can also try catch throws when your opponent is likely to anticipate a normal throw attempt, and your catch throw in this case will grab them out of their escape attempt for virtually guaranteed damage. Try this tactic after blocking high rising attacks if you're determined to land certain catch throws such as Kage's graphically nifty u/f+P+G catch throw. Some catch throws like akira's back throw are going to be almost impossible to land under any circumstance but don't let that stop you from trying. -Multi-throws- These are like normal throws, but they have several parts. Each part requires a separate joystick motion and P+G tap on your behalf, and a separate escape motion on the opponent's behalf. These throws behave exactly like normal throws for each part meaning no execution time, etc. There is no whiff animation if you've failed the 2nd and 3rd part of a multithrow because you cannot fail these parts unless you messed up the timing, messed up the joystick motion, or the throw was escaped (in which case there is only a typical escape animation). The successful completion of a multithrow usually has a high reward in total damage, but there is inherent risk in using the multithrow because you're gambling that the opponent will fail to input a correct escape two or three times in a row. The odds of that occurring are fairly good; since there are only two options at any given point during a multithrow attempt, your opponent has a 50/50 chance of breaking it. Having the second or third part of a multithrow broken is almost worse, psychologically, than having a normal throw attempt escaped because you will have done very little damage to the opponent when you made them guess wrong, and you will have lost quite a bit of damage potential as a result of their correct guess. You would have actually been better off doing a one-part normal damaging throw during their incorrect guess. Use multithrows as you would normal throws but do not get too predictable with them, mix multi attempts in with normal grabs to keep the opponent guessing. -Low throws- As you probably guessed, these work on ducking opponents. Conditions and behaviour of these throws matches that of normal throws meaning they can be escaped and have an obvious whiff animation, which is animated slightly differently but otherwise acts in the same way. Use these almost exclusively to punish blocked or whiffed low attacks or rising sweeps. Basically, all sweeps in this game now recover low, so if you block a sweep or one whiffs, always low throw. (Before, in VF2, you might have to high OR low throw depending on the specific sweep type attack and circumstances). Curiously, the characters who can do low throws (Wolf, Jeffry, Pai, Taka, Aoi) all have either three low throws with three different escapes, or only one which is easily escaped. It is possible to condition opponents into being snatched up by low throws, but it's harder to condition opponents to block low than it is to condition them into blocking high (although VF3 does have plentitude of handy low attacks for almost every character which makes it easier than before). Keep in mind that the two main grapplers in the game, Wolf and Jeffry, can low throw opponents from the side and from behind. The usage of the low side throw is reserved to when you have dodged an anticipated low attack. Low back throws are quite rare, I have only seen them used in two situations, after 'ticks' and after certain missed moves such as a ducked "thunder dragon" (f,f+P+K+G) attack from Kage, which I believe recovers low initially and then high. *There is one special case of a 'canned throw combo' that works entirely on the principal of conditioning opponents to block low. It doesn't work if the attacks preceding the throw connect, even though the attacks and throw go together in one combo. This is wolf's PP,f+P,d/b+P+K+G throw. It's a canned combo (two jabs and an elbow, all of which can be avoided by simply crouching) followed by a low throw that comes out almost instantly after the elbow finishes execution, meaning you don't have to wait for PP,f+P to recover before going instantly into the low throw. Presumably this is in there because Sega thought people would like to experiment more with the PPf+P combo and set up traps with it. -Side throws- These act just like normal throws, except they cannot be escaped and can only be used when your opponent is at a sideways angle (in relation to your character's front). If the angle for a side throw attempt is wrong it will turn into a frontal throw. There is no angle at which your opponent can NOT be thrown. If the angle for a sidethrow is too severe, it will be a back throw. There are no side catch throws. In general, side throws do less damage than frontal throws, but the damage IS guaranteed at least if conditions for a side throw attempt have been met. Some characters have more than one side throw, but most characters have only one, done by P+G. Side throws are generally reserved for use on opponents who have just had an attack dodged and are in recovery. The same is true of low side throws. There are some situations where the opponent will recover from an attack sideways and can therefore be minor countered with a side throw. -Back throws- Behave just like side throws, in that they cannot be escaped. All back throws but one have no execution time, but all have recovery time if missed. The one exception is Akira's back throw, which is a slow-executing catch throw that only will come out when Akira is behind his opponent. It also has slower than average recovery. These throws all obviously must be done when you are facing the opponent's back, preferably when they are in recovery and unable to hit you with a TT attack. -Ground throws- These are special throws that work only on opponents who are lying prone and semi-helpless on the ground. They are used as an alternative to pouncing. Ground throws are generally more rewarding than a pounce, but less likely to connect and riskier. They all share the d/f+P+G motion, and all have both execution time and whiff recovery ... reserve your use of these to situations where they are guaranteed, such as after a heavy knockdown attack, or after certain throws or reversals that you recover quickly from and that leave the opponent lying prone, preferably nearby. Ground throws show some characteristics of catch throws, being inescapable and having execution time. Ground throws however cannot interrupt a rising attack, and if the opponent tries to evade your throw attempt with a roll or by kipping up, he will always be successful once he has managed to start moving. That's why generally it is a better idea to pounce than it is to ground throw, because if your opponent has started to roll from under- neath a pounce, they are still vulnerable and the pounce might still connect. If the opponent starts to roll away from a ground throw however, you are the vulnerable one. -Wall throws- These require you or your opponent to be especially close to a wall in order for them to be successful. They are inescapable and work like normal throws (except for the escape part :). In fact, they ARE normal throws, for the most part, just with changes in the animation. Whiffed wall throw attempts are the same as whiffed normal throw attempts. There are no catch style wall throws. If the conditions for a regular throw are met AND you or your opponent (whichever is appropriate for the throw attempt) is close to a wall, the regular throw will alter to reflect the circumstances. Your throw will have a unique animation that matches, partially, the normal throw animation that would be reflected by your joystick command, but the outcome of the throw attempt will change. For example, d/b+P+G is a special zero-damage exchange type throw for jeffry. Doing it close to the wall will cause the same exchanging animation to occur initially, but then there's a special followup where jeffry drags his opponent's face across the wall and then knees him in the back.. this followup is impossible without the wall there. Note that there are two types of wall in VF3, a low wall that simply prevents easy ring outs, but can be passed over by putting the opponent high into the air, and then there's a high wall that cannot ever be passed over. The high wall is required for wall throws. Note that there may be a high wall in the seemingly boundless desert stage, because something stops you from running indefinitely in one direction, even though that something is not visible. If it's an invisible high wall, it may be possible to do wall throws on an opponent that appear to take place out in the open, without a wall. This is something I want to test more for my amusement than because it's essential knowledge :) -Back-turned throws- This type of throw hardly deserves its own category, as there are only two examples of throws of this type in the entire game. One behaves like a normal throw, except it probably cannot be escaped . this is Shun Di's. The other is a catch throw basically that only comes out when your back is turned. Kage does that one. The conditions for these throws are pretty much like the conditions for a normal throw, except the throwing character (not the throwee) has his back turned to the opponent. -Hit throws- A hit throw is a unique throw that will only activate after the opponent has been struck with a specific attack. There are very few hit throws in the game, but one of them, Jeffry's "Toe Kick of Doom" (TKOD) has been around since Virtua Fighter 1. To connect with these throws, simply do the appropriate attack that sets the throw up, and if you see that the attack has connected, do the appropriate throw motion to grab your opponent WHILE they are still in hitstun. The timing for some of these is tricky, in other cases though it's very lax and easy to get the throw to work. I cannot confirm one way or the other whether these throws can be escaped by conventional throw escapes. I've heard conflicting reports. What I DO know however is that Jeffry's TKoD has been escapable since VF1 by simply crouching, which means it might qualify as a catch throw of sorts that has no miss animation. It seems unlikely though that jeffry's other hit-throw, the bull toss, can be avoided using that method because it seems to grab the opponent much sooner during their hitstun, before they have an opportunity to crouch. In any case, there's never any risk in attempting the throw, as you won't have to deal with miss animation, only the remaining recovery time of the attack you connected with (which is cancelled usually by the grab). Obviously, execution time is not a factor either since the grab follows an attack immediately with no apparent reach animation in between. SECTION FOUR: Throw Strategies. ----------------------- General tips for when to use throws: * When the opponent whiffs an attack. By whiff, I mean when the opponent does an attack the misses you completely. If it didn't even touch you, you should have time to dash in and throw the opponent while they are recovering from their attack. ANY AND ALL WHIFFED ATTACKS CAN BE THROWN. Keep that in mind. If an opponent throws out an attack and it misses, even one that recovers quickly, there is often time to dash or run in and grab him. Of course, it's harder to throw attacks like high jabs on reflex, but if you anticipate a specific attack, you should ALWAYS be able to avoid it and then counter throw. That's why it's important to learn the technique of making opponents whiff their attacks. In VF2 this was primarily accomplished by back dashing or backwards crouch dashing away from the attack and then dashing forward again and grabbing them during their recovery. In VF3, it's primarily accomplished by dodging the linear attacks and then throwing them during the recovery. In this case, your throw may become a side throw instead of whatever frontal throw you inputted. In a few cases, a dodge will bring you completely behind an opponent for a free back throw. *After blocking moves with stop animation or really slow recovery. This one is a no brainer. If your opponent uses this huge move like a kickflip and you block it, you can then minor counter throw them. If you're the gambling type, go for a "normal" throw that you like, or some sort of setup throw. If you like to get guaranteed damage, you can try a catch throw instead, if the move's recovery is lengthy enough to allow the catch to connect. Otherwise, it's wise to prefix your minor counter throws with a f,f or f+E dash, then input your throw command. Also, watch for certain moves that, when blocked, have a special 'stop animation'. Nine times out of ten, moves with stop animation can be countered by a throw if blocked. A good example would be almost any rising attack in the game. Sweeps also tend to have stop animation, as do almost any crescent or spinning type of kick. *Whenever you get a 'stagger' on the opponent. Certain moves, when they connect under the right conditions, will cause your opponent to stagger. You can NOT throw them while they are in the stagger.. but you CAN throw them the INSTANT they come out of the stagger. Therefore, a good trick is to set up a stagger, and then throw the person as early as you can when they come out of the stagger animation. If you can time your throw perfectly, there is almost no way the opponent can stop the throw aside from guessing your throw attempt and then escaping it. Be aware though that if your opponent struggles out of the stagger, they can recover from it more quickly and mess up your timing for the throw attempt. They may even manage to recover and hit you before you can throw them, or they may throw you first. Still, despite the risk and possibility of failing the throw, setting up the stagger and throwing is almost always your best option when you have the opportunity to try it. This skill becomes useful at higher levels versus characters like Wolf who will use the low kick "tick" on you (more on that later). You can counter his low kick with an elbow, which should cause a stagger if it connects, and then YOU have the opportunity to throw. A few elbow stagger-throw "combos" should discourage the Wolf player from abusing the low kick technique. *When you use a 'Tick'. See the next question and answer section for details. *When opponents play overly defensively. Some opponents love to just machi up and wait for you to attack, and they will refuse to be baited into attacking themselves. Don't let this tactic frustrate you, throw! Some people love to block high all day and stay really far away poking with safe attacks. Surprise them with run-in throws and they will be forced to stick attacks out to prevent your throwing. You can then try dodging or interrupting those preventative attacks for either big damage, another throw opportunity, or a chance to do a float combo. Remember that running in and throwing is much easier in VF3 than you're used to for two reasons: Running by itself is an easy motion, hold forward on the stick and the E button.. and a less noticable detail that still helps immensely is the ability to literally run INTO an opponent instead of stumbling to a stop just outside of throw range. Before, you stopped automatically when you ran too close to the opponent, but now you can keep going until you plow into them, and then immediately throw. Making defensive opponents guess your next move by running in and then mixing up your strategy should work wonders. Pay attention to when they like to block high, and then go for the grab, and be sure to make use of certain catch throws as well. These catch throws often LOOK like attacks in their opening frames of execution and can fool the opponent into blocking, especially the catch throws that are telegraphed by a leap into the air, or maybe a shout of some sort. Try to be aware of opponent's attack and defend patterns, and capitalize on common ones. A good example would be a jacky or sarah player who loves to harass you with double low kicks. If you anticipate the low kicks, you can block, elbow stagger, and then throw at the stagger's end. If you have good reactions, you can often block the second kick on reflex after getting hit by the first, and then try for an elbow stagger into throw. Finally, if you don't have the above traits and cannot FORCE your opponent to be thrown, try to watch their habits and see if you can throw when you THINK they will defend, for example, if the jacky and sarah will hit you with the double low kicks a lot, they will expect a retaliation in the form of a sidekick or elbow. Since they know they can recover fast enough after connecting their low kicks to block the sidekick or elbow, they will probably start blocking high after the double low kick hits. This is the time to run in and throw. Only when they start catching on to this should you counter this move with some sort of mid attack. *When you 'condition' the opponent into blocking. Some opponents don't start out playing defensively but will often turn defensive when you show them certain attacks. For example, if you approach people with akira's quick, reliable dashing elbow (which hits mid and can *duck underneath punches*) then they will often be forced to either block or dodge the attack since the attack can effectively beat any move in their arsenal when timed correctly. If you do the dashing elbow a few times and it connects for a combo, they will hesitate to stick moves out as often for fear of eating that combo, therefore, they will start dodging and blocking more than they should have to. Anticipate this and throw them while they dodge or block. Another good situation to condition people into being thrown is any time they lose a lot of 'initiative' by using certain attacks. Say your opponent uses a sidekick and you know it's uncounterable.. what should you do? More often than you'd think, a throw will work, but to really ensure it, try countering moves like a blocked sidekick with big float tools such as wolf's small shoulder ram or akira's super dashing elbow. They will have to block these attacks usually to avoid being floated, or at least they will have to dodge, so condition them with a few elbows or shoulder rams and after two or three if these, they will figure out that the best thing they can do in their situation is block. Go for the throw. Finally, it's possible to bait someone into blocking. Aoi for example can come at the opponent with PPP, and then guard cancel her [expected] sweep, causing the opponent to momentarily crouch. Respond to this with a surprise low throw after you guard-cancel. Even without guard cancels, any character should be able to fool the opponent into preparing for an expected mid-level attack that you aren't actually going to do. Sarah for example has a fast elbow-knee combo, and Sarah players will try to be wily with it by delaying the knee. Show opponents the elbow-delayed knee trick a few times, and when they get used to it, try following your next blocked or whiffed elbow with a quick dash-in throw. *hit-throw them. Just find a way to connect the attacks that set up hit-throws such a taka's elbow, jeffry's toe kick, or wolf's two handed chop..once these have successfully hit the opponent, do the appropriate throw motion for your apparently-free throw. I should stress that you shouldn't abuse this technique or rely on it too much to get most of your throws, mostly because A: the followup throw might be escapable and B: the moves that you need to connect in order to land the hit throws in this game are generally not of the low risk sort, although Taka's attacks are not too bad for execution and recovery. *More throwing tips* -Stumble throws Throws that cause a stumble or staggering animation on your opponent generally allow you to use additional attacks on them to increase the total damage that the throw causes, as long as you can hit them while they are still in their helpless stumble or stagger animation. The downside though is that this additional damage is not 'free', the opponent can, by rapidly tapping buttons and moving the stick, recover from your stumble throw faster than usual, and hence give himself more time to block your followups. If the opponent doesn't struggle at all, then they are likely to be struck by slower, powerful attacks.. but if they are fairly good at struggling, only faster, weaker attacks are going to be likely to connect. Still, if your opponent consistently struggles and then guards after being 'stumbled', you may try using the stumble to set up ANOTHER throw, instead of attacking right after it. This will create a mind game your opponent will have to deal with. .. are you going to attack or throw!? If he guessed throw and stuck out an attack or crouched, and you attack, he'll be eating your attack probably. If he guessed attack and blocked, he might eat another throw. My advice on using the stumble throw is to watch and see what you can get away with against a specific opponent. If the answer is 'not much' then you're probably better off doing some other guaranteed damage throw. If they show that their struggling skills are not up to speed, then you should go with your stumble throw and powerful followups to it until they start escaping. Remember that your reward for landing a stumble throw but no followups is really small, stumble throws do puny damage by themselves and really need decent followups to be worthwhile. -Exchange throws I call throws that do no damage but set your opponent up for attacks "exchange throws" .. they are generally the type of throw that turns the opponent around so that their back is facing you, and both you and your opponent will usually have switched ring position. For the most part, exchange throws have very few if any 100% guaranteed followups, but unlike stumble throws they cannot be struggled out of to avoid damage entirely, because exchange throws always cause the same amount of reel or stagger animation for the victim. The person performing the throw will also always recover the same way and usually at about the same time as the opponent. Basically, exchange throws set up the same fun guessing game that arises versus an opponent who like to struggle out of your stumble throws: Will you throw or will you attack? At first it would seem that the stumble throws are better, since they set up the same guessing game as exchange throws but also do a little damage. The difference is that exchange throws work on everyone and force a more 'pure' 50/50 type guessing game because there are no special factors to deal with such as the opponent's struggle ability. The guessing game boils down to the exact same handful of options regardless of circumstances and regardless of the opponent's skill level. If you know they will dodge or attempt to run away, you can get a back throw on them. If you know they will try to TT attack you, you can interrupt the TT attack with your own powerful attack. -Mixing throws up This should be obvious, but I'll say it anyway. Mix your throws up. Do not attempt to do the same throw on somebody over and over, and do not attempt the same small set of two or three throws every time if you can help it. You should always have at least three viable throws in mind that you can use to keep the opponent guessing. If you don't, and if you insist on using only one or two throws over and over, then you have just drastically increased the chances that your throw will be escaped. Don't let that happen to you. I'll include a list of everyone's best throw options so that you know which three (or more) you should be ready to use at any time, and which throws you shouldn't use as much .unless you're facing an opponent who is amazing at guessing what you're going to do. -Minor counter throwing Don't try to minor counter something with a throw just because it LOOKS like it has slow recovery. Look up the exact statistic and keep in mind what can be throw countered and what cannot. It may be tempting in the case of a blocked knee or dragon cannon to attempt a dash in throw, but even though the recovery LOOKS bad enough to allow your throw, it isn't and you'll be leaving yourself open to heavy attacks. Learn from both experience and various FAQ publications and such what you can safely counter with throws and what cannot be countered with throws. In a few rare cases, such as a situation where you've blocked a knee, you MIGHT have an opportunity to throw if the conditions are correct, because you DO have a 1/60th of a second advantage, but it's very very hard to time something like that correctly and is probably more risk than it's worth to attempt a throw. If you find there are certain attacks that are not 'supposed' to be throw counterable, yet you can throw counter them consistently despite your opponent's efforts to stop you, then it's possible that you have met those special conditions and you have the timing to throw perfectly. On the other hand, it could be that your opponent is incompetent. Regardless, if it works, use it, but be aware it might not always work versus some competition. ---------------------- okay, that's it so far, I'll do the rest, don't worry. and after this, I start work on the throw escape FAQ. That one should be shorter and easier. I hope. /------------------/ | sig in a box. | /------------------/ Standard blathering. "Standard" -Quote Standard@email.address CreeD@home :) -Meshe@clinic.net-