Soul Calibur II Liquid Talim FAQ Version 1.0 (06/9/03) by JinLaW dj_jinlaw_pr12@yahoo.com EL_MANDINGO@tekken.cc =-=-=Copyright of JinLaW=-=-= This FAQ is intended to help Talim players to understand how to use her. It's a smaller form of the Talim Strats forum of soulcalibur.com I did some weeks ago. I, personally, am not an excellent Talim player, like Seven or Shauno, but this FAQ is just the strategies Seven, Shauno, Nuts, and all the members of the forum. BTW, you can put this FAQ anywhere you want to, but give credits to me(JinLaW) and the Talim Strats forums at soulcalibur.com. Let's get started. =-=-=The Conventions=-=-= A- Horizontal Attack B- Vertical Attacks K- Kick G- Guard =-=-=Movement Conventions=-=-= 7 8 9 u/b u u/f up-back up up-forward 4 5 6 = b N f = back neutral forward 1 2 3 d/b d d/f down-back down down-forward =-=-=Special Conventions=-=-= + - Moves must be done together , - Moves must be done right after the other _ - Or (When used between two moves, they are interchangable) * - return joystick to the neutral position [] - Hold down the selected button(s) for possible delay or change up > - possible delay between moves ~ - buttons pressed immediately after the other () - Parenthesis indicates optional moves in a string : - Requires Precise timing FC - Do move during full crouched position WS - While standing up (Returning the stick to neutral from a crouch) WJ - while jumping (pressing ub_u_uf and G) WL - while landing (coming down from a jump) RN - While running BK - Back facing the opponent =-=-=Notes Conventions=-=-= GI - Guard Impact GB - Guard Break GP - Guard Push (blocked hit pushes opponent back, but remains in block) CH - Counter Hit SC - During Soul Charge JF - Just Frame (only a small window in animation to perform move) ! - Unblockable [] - goes into or ends in the stance indicated between the brackets / - seperates comments # - followed by a number means comment reference in NOTES () - Parenthesis indicates optional moves in a string {} - Curved brackets indicate buttons needed to break a throw =================== |------Index-------| =================== I. Talim Strenghts and weaknesses by Seven II. Movelist by rev III. Move Analysis by Seven, Shauno and Ai-Uchi IV. Multi-throw timing and Set-ups by Seven and Shauno V. Guard Impact Game(GI) by Seven VI. Moving forward by Seven VII. Ring Out Game by Seven VIII. Soul Charge Unblockables(SCUBs) by Shauno IX. Custom Strings by Shauno =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ================================= I. Talim Strenghts and Weaknesses| ================================= Strengths On the most fundamental level, everyone should realize Talim's speed is one of her biggest advantages. It allows for quick interrupts, continued offense in smart offensive fashion, etc. Another advantage is Talim's evasive qualities. By far the most evasive character in the game. But most people don't realize that the biggest portion of her evasiveness does not come from backturn evade or canned strings with evade options. Many of Talim's moves are tech crouch, in fact, a lot of the most important moves are. This is something all Talim players most be aware of, because most of the moves used to stop Talim from evading are high. A strength that most Talim players do not realize, however, is simply the sheer amount of knockdown moves she uses. Knockdown puts the opponent at the mercy of Talim's wakeups, another of Talim's strengths. So many knockdowns take a huge mental hit on the opponent, and frustration is a major part of beating the opponent. Another strength that is not so obvious. All of Talim's lows, except for backturn 2A, are safe. No risk lows is a definite plus. A strength that often is forgotten is Talim's cancels. A+BG and B+KG mostly. Even though Talim lacks string cancels to a certain extent(you could consider AST options string cancels if you wanted to) , they are almost always flashy enough to get a reaction. Weaknesses On the subject of Talim's weaknesses, everyone knows how little damage she deals is a major factor. Another weakness is the way the weight system works in calibur 2. The lightest character in the game is going to be the easiest to space. Since most characters are going to not want to ever be in Talim's ideal range, it makes it so you'll need to get back into that range frequently. ============ II. Movelist| ============ GRAPPLING TECHNIQUES: (front) A+G {A} B+G {B} 236+B+G {B} 236+B+G,46+A+B {B} 214+B+K JF (left) A+G_B+G {A_B} (right) A+G_B+G {A_B} (back) A+G_B+G {Astroth & Voldo can escape} NORMAL TECHNIQUES: NOTES: A,A #1 A,A,B A,A,B,(8_2) [SP] A,A,B A,A,B,K #2 A,B 1+A 2+A 3+A #3 3+A,A 4+A,A 4+A,[K] 6+A,A 6+A,B 44+A,A,A 44+A,A,A,236+B 44+A,[A] B,A #1 B,B,(8_2) [SP] B,B,A B,B,K B,B,K,6 [FF] B,B,4+K [BT] 1+B(8_2) [SP] 1+B,6 [FF] 1+B,4 [BT] 2+B 1+B,6+[B] 6+B,A,(8_2) [SP] 6+B,A,6 [FF] 6+B,A,4 [BT] 6+B,B 4+B,(8_2) [SP] 4+B,6 [FF] 4+B,B 44+B 66+B 236+[B] 214+B #1 / ! K 1+K 2+K,A 2+K,[A] 3+K 4+K 6+K 44+K 66+K A+B #1 / #3 / GB 6+A+B #1 66+A+B 3+A+B 1+A+B 2+A+B 2+A+B,(8_2) [SP] 2+A+B,6 [FF] 2+A+B,4 [BT] 4+A+B #3 B+K #1 / GB (9_7)+B+K half-spin #3 4+B+K FC+A FC+B FC+3+B,B FC+K WS+A WS+B BK A,A BK A,A,(8_2) [SP] BK A,A,6 [FF] BK A,A,4 [BT] BK d2A BK B,B BK K BK 6+K #3 BK A+K GI to stun BK B+K GI BK FC+K WJ+A WJ+A.(8_2) [SP] WJ+A,6 [FF] WJ+A,4 [BT] WJ+B WJ+B,K #2 WJ+K WL+A WL+B WL+K FRONT FLIP - [FF]: 6+B+K Front Flip A B K #4 4+K #3 BACK TWIST: B GB 8-WAY RUN: 6+A,A# 6+B 6+K Slide 6+A+B 6+B+K [FF] (9_3)+A (9_3)+B,6+[B] (9_3)+K,A A+B (7_8_9_1_2_3)+B+K Full Spin A (8_2)+B+K Can run up wall B+G (throw) (8_2)+A,(8_2) [SP] (8_2)+B (8_2)+B,6 [FF] (8_2)+K (7_1)+A (7_1)+B,(8_2) [SP] (7_1)+B,6 [FF] (7_1)+K 4+A,A,A 4+A,A,A,236+B 4+B 4+K 4+B+K NOTES: [SP]: halfspin up or down [FF]: if attacked, will do front flip [BT]: if attacked, will do back twist #1: G to cancel #2: k at end of string against wall will add extra hit #3: leaves you in BK #4: if connects, performs another front flip ================== III. Move Analysis| ================== The entire movelist isn't going to be analyzed, just the most important moves. 8_2B+K She gets around the opponent like nothing else. Instead of 8_2 B+K~8_2 its better if you SS first before doing the BT command for a potent double SS. Doing it the first way pulls you out to BT. Any movement from BT makes her face forward. 8WR9_3A This move incorporates every Talim strength in a single move. Hits mid, always knocks down, tracks like 360 degrees in its spin animation, goes under high attacks, and because of the input (9~9_3~3) you can get an advancing sidestep out of it. It's range is decievingly long, but not long enough to do it from too great a distance. It is the perfect solution to AAs that interrupt your spin transitions. The most common use is Talim's AA8_2. Now if you do this command to sidestep spin left or right after the AAs were blocked, the opponent can AA you before you can continue the pressure, but if you instead input AA8_2~A she enters her SS with the anti-high Seisutivo, totally owning the opponent's attack. It also comes out in moves like 2A+B and 1B and BT AA(!). Just follow with an 8_2~A if the opponent attacks. 1A Probably Talim's best low. It moves her forward quite a bit, is safe of course, and most importantly, gives Talim advantage on hit. 2 frames of advantage is HUGE for the quickest character in the game. The way most people react to lows is to try and counter the next thing that's done. However, Talim's WS B will beat EVERY characters every option except step. And most characters do not have an option to beat 6BB either, after a 1A hit. This makes for one of Talim's few large damage setups. If they start turtling up after 1A, just multithrow(236G+B, 46A+B, 214B+K), and let the mindgames begin. B strings BB is probably Talim's most important interrupt. 11 frame mid is absolutely great. The variety that comes off of these strings is important as well. BB is something that can sometimes allow Talim to continue her offense if used smart. For example, BB8, cancel the backturn, BBK. If the opponent isn't paying attention, the BBK is likely to hit on counter, due to opponent trying to punish another backturn. BB8_2 is not used for it's evasive properties, but rather to continue offense. BB8_2 into actual backturn moves is only useful very sparingly. BBK6, BB4K, and BB4K4 are again only useful sparingly. Another tidbit with BBK is that most people respond to the forced crouch block with a WS move. Most WS moves are fairly linear, allowing you to easily move to one side and hit with a 8WR 3_9A or some such. The BA variation is another move that is probably better used sparingly. Against a stepping opponent, you may want the qualities of the B, but also want the A just in case they step the B. BA is totally situational. Lastly, BBA is largely useless now, especially due to the speed decrease from ver A to ver D. I use it maybe once every 30 or so games now, however, when I do use it, it always hits, because the opponent never sees it. Keep this in mind. A strings AA is Talim's second most important interrupt. Since it can be broken and is high, it's somewhat more limited, but due to it's speed, it's going to be very useful against a spaz opponent. AAB is not useful AT ALL. However, AAdelayB is useful once in a while. But if overused, it's going to result in you taking some heavy damage. On block, AAB is at terrible disadvantage. AA8_2 is important to lead into AST1, but I'll discuss that more when I get to AST1. AB is another situational string. Against ducking opponents, sometimes you may want the qualities of A, but also want to punish if they duck. 66AA Great for cutting off 8WR and step. Sometimes you may want to cut it off and just do the 66A by itself, on hit or block. Hit will lead to more offense options, block, sometimes you're better off only doing the 66A. This move is mostly important because of the high damage(comparitively) of the natural combo, and the knockdown properties. I've never known an opponent not to try teching this move, and there's a wakeup mixup pretty much guarunteed off the tech. A+B This move is of huge importance due to the backturn cancel. After using it a couple times, opponents will remember to turtle up to it, leaving them open to backturn and backturn cancls. That, and after a few times of cancelling it, likely they'll start trying to hit you out of it late. Let the move finish, and it's HUGE damage. The guard crush properties of this move is pretty limited. I.E. they don't have to re-gi anything at all unless you are pushing them into a wall. B+K Another important cancel. And this one has a slightly different application than A+B, but also has some of the same applications. The guard crush properties will of course be better if you're pushing someone into a wall, but even if you aren't, they have to re-gi 66B. 66B is easy to see coming after the guard crush, but if you use it very sparingly, it will hit whenever you need it to. The cancel of this move moves you quite a ways forward, so think about applications where you need to be in close for a strong mixup after you cancel this move. Multithrows, lows, strong fast mids (3B6B), etc. 236G+B, 46A+B, 214B+K (multithrow) See part IV for analysis. 1A+B Another tech crouch move. But also very quick, and Talim's best launcher. Less reliable to counter highs though, the window is much smaller. 44B is the best guarunteed damage after the launcher, and leaves you in a decent position for wakeups. 8WR8_2B is a decent finisher also, because of the options off the move, like AS forward, they're going to need to block an air sault wakeup. WS B I believe I tested this as 12 frames. That makes it probably the fastest WS move in the game. On counter, fall back stun, which leads to good wakeups. Run in wakeups, air sault wakeups, guard crush cancel wakeups, are all useful. The point is to take advantage of the situation after this move. WS A Better range, more damage, knockdown, and ringout properties as compared to WS B. This move is better in situations to punish certain lows which you know you'll get no counterhit on WS B, or when you need the ringout properties. 6B+K(air sault) If you're training your opponent correctly, you'll never get hit out of airsault. A pretty bold statement I'm sure, but it's just a question of knowing when to perform the jump. Although I don't airsault as much these days, it's still an important way to move yourself in and an important mixup when you land. Sometimes it's best just to do the jump, and attack once you get in. There are plenty of applications with this move. AST1 AST1 A is just another way of doing Talim's best move(8WR9_3A). AST1 G+A and G+B is a STRONG throw that leaves Talim at HUGE advantage afterwards. 8 frames, and she's a character with a 10 frame A. Admittedly, these throws are completely unsafe. But with these throws, it's all about the risk, because it WILL lead to more damage after the throw. Guard crushes, guard crush cancels, coin toss games, etc are all good afterwards. The important thing to remember is the opponent is not likely to start ducking this throw for a long time, because they only notice the minimal 15 damage the throw itself does. Which, by the way, takes on both successful throw attempt and broken throw attempt. Backturn(AST2) Some backturn moves are naturally more important than others, but all need to be used. Backturn 2A is probably the most used backturn move, but it must be moderated, because it is after all, Talim's only unsafe low. But on hit, it's knockdown. Such a dillemma. Backturn BB is a great knockdown. Backturn K is good ringout material, Backturn 2K is a great low. In fact, BT 2K is probably more useful than BT 2A. 3A+B One of Talim's longest range moves, and quick. Admittedly, I don't use this near as much as I should. It's a good long range interrupt, and also good for punishing things normally out of Talim's range. Something to play around with. 44K Quick low, safe, knockdown on counter. Again, another safe Talim low can come through. Most people are going to either spaz or step afterwards, know your opponent. But it's something that will let you keep your offense going if it hits. BB if they spaz. 6A+B Although this move is a little slower, it's range, very decent tracking, high damage, and terrific break attribute make it a move worth using. This is the move I use to beat A's I know are coming. This is important because as mentioned above, lots of A's are going to be used to stop Talim's evasion. You anticipate correctly, you get the counter damage for 60 or some(I forget) plus wakeups. Not too shabby. And oh yeah, it's a SCUB on level 3 soul charge. Talim's only useful SCUB. 4BB and variations 4B is in every way a plain run of the mill move, and also is very unique. 4BB itself is good for the counterhit, guaranteeing the second hit and ringout if in the right position. 4B8_2 is the quickest way to AST2 from a string. BB is 2 hits, 4B is one. 4B6_8_2 can have many applications as a fake, etc etc. It's important to use. 4A strings This I mostly use on wakeups. The first hit can whiff, so it looks like opponent can get up with an attack... but the second hits come out fast enough to hit them for counter as they're getting up. If they hesitate enough, 4A[K] is really good damage. 4A strings by themselves of course can be useful, if limited. I do not know frames, but 4A[K] is definitely solid block stun, enough to continue your offense. 8WR3_9KA A solid move with applications that most people never think of. The K can whiff, and the A portion will counter. Important on wakeups and all sorts of other times. The K portion is tech jump, and if they get used to seeing the full string, cut it off to just the K, then multithrow. It works well. Mess around with this move. Another thing to note is that the K pushes the opponent quite a bit to Talim's left and off axis... I have yet to experiment too much with this, but I'm guessing that almost anything the opponent can throw out will miss if Talim evades right. 3B6B Another very solid move. I always do the full string, if 3B hits then you can stop delaying the 6B part in time to make it guaranteed. After that, a 1K or 2B is guaranteed, I think, but I always opt for wakeup games. Sometimes I airsault over the opponent and use backturn wakeups. The important thing is, this move slams the opponent down in a strange way, and wakeups are all that much more potent than usual. Other things to note about this move is it is hard to see the second portion accurately for the opponent. Vary the timing, occasionally do the full guard crush, etc. The first few times you will need to train opponent to it by hitting them with the fast version. 2KA Why 2K works is hard to describe. It's so slow, that it's almost too obvious. Test this move out after cancels(B+KG, KG, 6A+BG are the best) and you might be surprised. However, it's probably best never to do the A portion. After 2K hit, FCB is almost guarunteed, since it is very hard to tech. And again, this low is totally safe, as long as you don't use the A. 1B In my opinion, the best way of setting up autododge. But also in itself a very quick mid, and sometimes good to use for the knockdown properties. Look at the autododge section for more. FC3BB The FC3B is tech crouch for all of it's portion. Very important. Plus the second part can be delayed like mad. Only bad thing is it's completely linear. 8WR1_7B This move is an important way to move inside for Talim. Tracks fairly well, tech jump I believe, fairly quick, and good air sault and AST1 options. The way this move is, it's probably the most confusing way to set up AST1 and air sault options after a move, and works really well for Talim. 4A+B This move can provide perfect retaliation to EVERY character, the thing is to know your spacing. Find certain situations it is useful in, and remember that the backturn after it can be cancelled. This move is also fairly good at breaking. 44A and string A very interesting string. 44A by itself is PERFECT range for air sault wakeups on hit, ring out, etc. I have real fun finding ways to whiff the first 2 hits of the move though, and get the rest of the string to hit (the last AA236B part). Good to set up after certain knockdowns, but unfortunately it is kind of slow, so that needs to be remembered. 66K This move is sort of magical. It tracks really well, and sometimes leaves you in backturn, sometimes not. Good setup for the backturn auto- parries on block, if you're left in backturn, it's just necessary to know how your opponent will react. 9B Don't forget this move when you need to jump over lows. On hit leaves you in backturn. ================================== IV. Multi-throw timing and set-ups| ================================== 236G+B, 46A+B, 214B+K Timing The escape is only 6 frames. 70 damage and 16 frame impact. The timing for the multipart is like this: 236G+B, immediately after the throw impacts(basically right away) press 46A+B. As soon as you have done that, mash in 214B+K. If you can get the timing down every time without mashing it, good for you, but it doesn't matter, because Talim's multi cannot be broken after the initial throw. Here's another thing I've noticed about the multi. After the arm break(46A+B), the camera will switch sides. So doing the multi will feel like this sequence instead: 236B+G, 46A+B, 236B+K. Set-Ups It's good to do the multi after the following: -BT B+K, 66A Takes about 60% of your opponents life gauge without the okizeme!!!! -BT 2K, 88_22K Being hit twice tends to make people defend. -BBA, 2A Like above, being hit 4 times really freezes them often. A bit risky, though, remember what was said in the movelist analysis part(III) about the speed decrease of the A in the string BBA from version A to D?? Do it only if the A of BBA connects to be safe with frame advantage. -88_22A if it connects fairly close, it recovers very fast for an attempt. -AA~8_2 If they start to block the ~8_2 AST1 A, come from the SS spin with a buffered multi-throw instead. Some other things: I(Shauno) threw the opponent with a 236 G+B (with out the full multi- part command). He ended up in Play Dead position (PLD is a Tekken term for face up, head towards) so I did a 2B to hit him as he tried to rise. This forced him to rise in BT position (FC at that I think). Even though he then pressed guard (so he said), I was able to hit him in the back again with 6A+B. It'll be kinda nice if we can get some consistency with this: Opponent PLD, 2B, 6A+B ===================== V. Guard Impact Game | ===================== Post GI game Talim's post GI game is actually fairly strong. 1A+B is the best option if your opponent doesn't re-GI quickly. Good guaranteed damage. 66A will hit people who GI with 4G for good damage. People who GI high will eat 1A or 2K, both of which are somewhat delayed, especially 2K, so they are useful by themselves as delayed options. 1K or 44K is the fast low option. Throw in guard crushes(B+K and A+B) and their cancels, you've got a barrel full of damage and fun. 6A+B is also good post GI. ================== VI. Moving Forward| ================== One thing Talim players occasionally lack is patience, I know I(Seven talking) lack it sometimes. Talim's ways of moving in are not strong or obvious, and sometimes it takes a lot of patience and experimentation. Some of the various ways to move in I've found are... -GI Against Astaroth and some of the other players than can push Talim out really well, sometimes this is what you'll have to resort to. Good thing Talim's post GI game is fairly strong. 66B Too bad it's a crap move. Terrible recovery on block, high, linear. The only thing it has going for it is break. 66A It's hard to move in with this anyways. Your time has to be good, and the move isn't all that long ranged. But it's important that she has it, because a lot of times the simplest way to get in is to run forward, and you'll usually end up doing a 66 move. 6A+B When you're at range to use it, and you know it's going to hit, you can use it, and then move in for the wakeups. 1A This low moves you forward. Gives advantage on hit. Nuff said. 66K Same thing with 66A. But it does track really well. 6B+K An obvioius way to move in, I suppose... but not so obvious is to just use the jump to move in. Usually you will get some hesitation out of your opponent when used properly. 33A Ok, this really isn't a move used to move in... it is however, very powerful when you're just outside of Talim's ideal close range. When this move hits, wakeups ensue. Fun times for all. B+K and A+B cancels Moving in with this is not obvious at all, but it is VERY useful and very important. Most people only think about the guard crush and damage properties when they see these moves. It's very deceptive to use it as a way to move inside, and unless your opponent knows you're going to cancel, they should be turtling up. These guard crushes are NOT slow if used properly. Just remember to use them when the opponent has eaten enough A's and will not be thinking about moving to the side. =================== VII. Ring Out Game | =================== Talim's RO game is basically composed of 33A or WSA. Don't forget most of her throws ring out. ====================================== VIII. Soul Charge Unblockables(SCUBs) | ====================================== Most of you know that if you attack while soul charging, you'll keep the charge as long as your attacks don't hit or are blocked. What you may not know is that GI'ing while charging up doesn't cause the SC to dissapate. In fact I(Shauno) was able to get at least 10+ SCUBs today in matches by using this technique. - After knocking down the opponent, immediately press A+B+K. You can't 8WR until you're at least lvl 2. - Once you can, dash in towards the opponent and simply GI their attack if they throw one out. By this time you should be at lvl 3... SCUB time! After the GI mix up these lvl 3 unblockables: 236+B (juggle starter!) 6A+B (a bit slower, drops them in front of you for okizeme) A+B (slow animation...rolls them away) B+K (slow animation...rolls them away) The varying animation speeds allow you to get around re-GI attempts. Remember, you can also charge 236[B] just enough to avoid a re-GI as well and you'll still have an unblockable. This technique has an interesting effect on the opponent's defense. Eventually he'll choose not to attack for fear of the SCUB options. That's when you can go for the 6B+K B GC discussed earlier, along with dashing multi throw, or a simple SCUB like 6A+B. 8WR'ing with B+K dodges help to keep the opponent guessing when/if the attack will come. Summary... supercharge often! If they turtle, dash in and SCUB_throw them. If they try to interrupt this strat, GI first then SCUB them anyway. ===================== VIII. Custom Strings | ===================== -1A, FC 2K, WS+K, K, 6K - BT 2K, 2A, FC 3BB - This one is pretty much uninterruptable it seems, with the 3BB avoiding any high attacks. - BT 2K, 88_22 K, multithrow_1A+B - If the cartwheel kick hits, do the mixup (1A+B is uninterruptable). If not, GI or dodge because of the good recovery. - BT 2K, 88_22A~8_2 AST1A_(multithrow_1A+B). 88_22A is an under rated move with a lot of speed and anti 8WR attributes. If it is blocked, go into ~8_2 AST1 A for protection. If it hits, the opponent is standing so use the frame advantage (if it gives you any) for a multi or 1A+B mixup. Special thanks to: Seven, Shauno, Nuts, Ai-Uchi, rev(for the movelist), and the whole Talim forum community of soulcalibur.com. THE END!!!