[HN Gopher] Wanggongchang Explosion
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Wanggongchang Explosion
Author : benbreen
Score : 158 points
Date : 2020-01-04 07:09 UTC (15 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
| crazygringo wrote:
| While the Wikipedia article says "no academic consensus has been
| reached" it seems pretty clear from the "possible causes" section
| that a bolide (meteor exploding in the air above) is the only
| explanation listed which seems to fit the facts.
|
| I'm curious, therefore, why the lack of consensus? Is there any
| evidence _inconsistent_ with the bolide hypothesis? Or is there
| just no positive proof whatsoever (e.g. some type of meteor
| residue or other) so it can never be conclusively demonstrated?
| appleflaxen wrote:
| > The ground around the immediate vicinity of Wanggongchang
| Armory, the epicenter of the explosion, had sunken for over 2
| zhangs (about 6.5 m or 21 feet), but there was a notable lack
| of fire damage
|
| it seems a bit improbable that a bolide would _just so happen_
| to hit the armory. Given that bolide events are rare to begin
| with, the low chance of hitting a military building is enough
| to make me skeptical.
|
| I have no idea what contemporary chemical explosives were
| extant, but if there were _any_ plausible agent I would favor
| that instead.
| [deleted]
| The_rationalist wrote:
| See also: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_artificial_non-
| nucle...
| pedrocx486 wrote:
| I know this is a quite off topic but as I was reading this and
| got to the "silk strands" clouds, I couldn't stop thinking about
| Death Stranding and the "voidout" events in the game.
| 11thEarlOfMar wrote:
| Wonder how it compared to the Tianjin explosion in 2015:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nr6Tlu0EvM
|
| Wait for the 3rd explosion at 0:50.
| kijin wrote:
| Wanggongchang is estimated to have been about 10 kilotons,
| roughly the equivalent of the Hiroshima nuke. Tunguska was at
| least 10 megatons. In comparison, the three explosions at
| Tianjin add up to a measly 360 tons of TNT [1].
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Tianjin_explosions
| emmelaich wrote:
| Or another fireworks disaster, in Netherlends 2000, a series of
| explosions from 0.8kT to 5kT.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enschede_fireworks_disaster
| sgt101 wrote:
| I think you are 3 orders of magnitude out. The biggest blast
| at Enschede was 5000 kg of tnt, Vs 5000000kg which would be
| 5kT.
| jetzzz wrote:
| See also 1490 Ch'ing-yang event:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1490_Ch%27ing-yang_event
| dmix wrote:
| > Tianqi Emperor's only remaining heir, the 7-month-old Crown
| Prince Zhu Cijiong (Zhu Ci Jiong ), died from the shock.[1]
|
| How does one die of shock? I'm curious if this is just an old
| medical description or possibly the weakness of a 7-month old
| baby at the time.
| grzm wrote:
| Explosions can cause shock waves which can cause injury in and
| of themselves (as opposed to injuries cause by thrown objects
| or fire). This could be what they're alluding to. I couldn't
| access the document[0] referenced in the Wikipedia article to
| confirm this reading.
|
| [0]: https://www.allbestessays.com/essay/Solving-a-Mystery-
| of-400...
|
| Mythbusters often highlighted this when working with explosions
| by using rupture disks at different distances from the
| explosion to measure the amount of damage incurred due to the
| pressure wave.
|
| https://www.flowcontrolnetwork.com/news-reports/article/1555...
| foobar_fighter wrote:
| Medical shock refers to very low blood pressure which results
| in poor oxygenation. It's usually fatal if left untreated. (It
| can be treated with oxygen and IV fluids). I would guess,
| though, that 'shock' is used in this context to refer to the
| explosion (as in shock wave).
| ncmncm wrote:
| Medical shock is much more vague. The version mentioned is
| one form which may itself have several different causes.
| Don't try to impress a medical doctor by mentioning shock.
|
| But the cause of death of the heir is far more profoundly
| vague, linguistically, although at the same time more
| specific.
| grzm wrote:
| If "the shock" were meant to be interpreted as medical shock,
| I would expect the definite article to be omitted. Compare:
|
| _He died of shock._ (medical condition)
|
| _He died of the shock._ (single, definitive event, e.g.,
| fright or shock wave)
|
| Might be reading too much into it, but lends credence to the
| shock wave interpretation. Anyone have access to the original
| text? Might clear it up.
| mirimir wrote:
| Maybe they had learned to make picric acid. One of the early
| methods involved nitrating silk. But for that, you need nitric
| and sulfuric acids.
|
| Nitric acid you can make from sulfuric acid and alkali nitrates.
| And sulfuric acid was discovered by Rhazes (Zakariya al-Razi) in
| ~900 AD. So it's possible.
|
| Or maybe ammonium nitrate. That was known in antiquity, but not
| as an explosive. But maybe they discovered that. And indeed,
| mixtures of ammonium nitrate, picric acid and anything
| carbonaceous are decent ~high explosives.
| IAmGraydon wrote:
| The energy released would have required at least 20,000,000
| pounds of high explosive. There is simply no way they had the
| resources to manufacture in those quantities.
| mirimir wrote:
| True enough, but maybe the reports have been exaggerated.
|
| The Texas City disaster,[0] involved ~2 million kg of
| ammonium nitrate. But TFA notes that the facility produced
| only ~400 kg gunpowder per day. Let alone ammonium nitrate,
| if any.
|
| So what, bolide?
|
| 0) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_City_disaster
| IAmGraydon wrote:
| Bolide is certainly the most likely explanation, in my
| opinion.
| [deleted]
| MeteorMarc wrote:
| The following resources provide some context about the frequency
| of high energy atmospheric meteorite impacts:
|
| https://cneos.jpl.nasa.gov/fireballs/
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_meteor_air_bursts
|
| Edited 14:32 MET
| darkerside wrote:
| A combination of meteorite air burst with compounding effects
| from a combustion explosion due to ammunition storage seems like
| it could have unpredictable effects that could account for some
| of the strange outcomes seen here.
| mannykannot wrote:
| Indeed - a bolide crossing the city from northeast to southwest
| is by far the most plausible explanation, though, as the sky
| was clear, it would surely have been seen as a fireball, as in
| Chelyabinsk? Therefore, I would guess that the "bright streak"
| was coincident with the initial "roaring rumble", rather than
| following it, and the reports are conflating the passage of the
| fireball with its final explosion.
|
| If it caused the detonation or deflagration of the armory's
| gunpowder, that might account for most of the clouds, including
| trails of smoke from burning fragments thrown high into the air
| (the "messy strands of silk"?)
| xwdv wrote:
| Imagine being killed in such an explosion, never really knowing
| what was happening as you died.
| jsjohnst wrote:
| I'm not one of the down-voters, but the death was likely near
| instant for most involved.
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(page generated 2020-01-04 23:01 UTC)