[HN Gopher] Clayton Christensen has died
___________________________________________________________________
Clayton Christensen has died
Author : coloneltcb
Score : 334 points
Date : 2020-01-24 18:56 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.deseret.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.deseret.com)
| djoped wrote:
| Clayton Christensen has passed away https://sportinfo.com.ng/
| euph0ria wrote:
| Clayton Christensen has been a great example to me in both
| business life and spiritual life. We studied his works in
| business school a lot but my favorite teaching that he ever gave
| was his "Decisions for which I've been grateful":
| http://www2.byui.edu/Presentations/Transcripts/Devotionals/2...
| adaisadais wrote:
| When I was in college I read "The Innovator's Dilemma". It
| totally changed my life. I emailed Dr. Christensen and he
| responded! I thought i was the king of the world.
|
| Dr. Clayton Christensen's books are some of the few 'Business'
| books that I ever recommend to friends or colleagues. I find that
| "The Innovator's Dilemma" is applicable to almost all aspects of
| life.
|
| Dr. Christensen will be greatly missed.
| petra wrote:
| // I find that "The Innovator's Dilemma" is applicable to
| almost all aspects of life.
|
| How is it relevant to life, or business(besides being in a
| startup or protecting a business from it)?
| 542458 wrote:
| spitballing some general aesops here:
|
| Don't overfocus on what seems important today - look at the
| long run.
|
| Improving at anything takes time and many iterations - if at
| first you don't succeed...
|
| Getting comfortable and set in your ways can blind you to
| great new things.
|
| Just because you fail doesn't men you did anything wrong.
| kbutler wrote:
| Willingness to make changes even when things are going well,
| preparing for future disruptions in your career and life,
| realizing that people and relationships also change.
| michaelmarion wrote:
| I was fortunate enough to be able to take a variation on
| Professor Christensen's HBS course through a summer program of
| study offered by Duke University; his son, Matthew, was himself
| an alumnus of both Duke and HBS and was our instructor for the
| course.
|
| We were lucky enough to have Professor Christensen himself fly in
| for a few days for guest lectures. From the minute he walked into
| the door, his intellectual brilliance was obvious, but our class
| very quickly discovered what a kind person he was.
|
| (This was right in the thick of the iOS-versus-Android wars and I
| recall having quite the spirited lecture about the nature of the
| market and which platform would eventually win out!)
|
| I'll remember Professor Christensen as a brilliant thinker and,
| most of all, a good man.
| [deleted]
| pwthornton wrote:
| Innovator's Dilemma and Competing Against Luck are the two best
| business books that any tech person should read.
|
| I have my students and product design team read them.
| brentjanderson wrote:
| I've long admired Clayton Christensen. My wife had the guts to
| ask his secretary to put me on his calendar. She did, and I got
| 15 minutes of his time. It was a surprise call, so when he was on
| the other end of the line, the best I could do was compliment him
| for the work he's done and his books (How will you measure your
| life, in particular).
|
| He was so kind to take the time, and so genuine. That he would
| take the time to chat with a complete stranger for a few minutes
| has been one of the most important things I've learned from him,
| notwithstanding his books, talks, and theories.
| mrtimo wrote:
| I heard Clayton Christensen speak at an "honors dinner" my
| freshman year of university in 2000. I asked him what interesting
| things he did when he was a university student. He said he would
| get together with his friends once a week - and each would take
| 10-15 minutes to present the most interesting thing they had
| learned that week.
|
| He also organized a university wide book club - including making
| books available at designated tables in the cafeteria, and
| hosting the author for a speaking event. "Guns Germs and Steel"
| was popular at the time, and he used that as an example of the
| type of book they would read.
|
| Everyone knows about the Disruptive Innovation, but he also wrote
| "Disrupting Class" on how disruptive innovations would change
| universities/education - and put some out of business. On this
| vein he founded the Christensen Institute [1] a non-profit (in
| Redwood City, CA). I don't know a ton about it, but I've really
| enjoyed the research/ideas posted on their blog over the years!
|
| Some here have posted about his faith. I've always thought it was
| bold that he had a four page PDF on his personal website [2]
| about his faith [3].
|
| [1]: https://www.christenseninstitute.org/ [2]:
| http://claytonchristensen.com/ [3]:
| http://claytonchristensen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Why...
| pottertheotter wrote:
| Outside of his influence on the business world, I've met him a
| couple times and he was such a kind and genuine man. There are a
| lot of business school professors who reach far less heights,
| often in obscure areas, and they let it go straight to their
| heads.
| gigatexal wrote:
| Mormon here and I had no idea how influential he was to some of
| the greats in business.
| jchallis wrote:
| His faith was extremely important to him. His essay on why he
| chose not to play basketball on Sunday, because it was the
| first compromise that would lead to every other compromise, has
| helped me keep my own moral compass pointed north.
| ancorevard wrote:
| I got to learn about disruption theory through Horace Dediu
| (http://www.asymco.com) who is probably one its best explainers
| and practitioners (the latter being why you should listen to
| Dediu in the first place - skin in the game).
| carls wrote:
| I remember reading How Will You Measure Your Life years ago right
| after college and enjoying it.
|
| I also found the following section from the article especially
| thought-provoking:
|
| > He second-guessed the wording of the label, but never the
| theory. Even after he changed his terminology to disruptive
| innovation, he saw flaws.
|
| > "What we didn't anticipate, and what in many ways was a fault
| of mine," he told Quartz.com in 2016, "was that the term
| disruption has so many different connotations in the English
| language, that it allows people to justify whatever they want to
| do as, 'Oh, this is disruptive,' and they don't ever read the
| book. The population of people where the fewest have read the
| book are venture capitalists. They are arrogant and smart and why
| do they need to read something?"
|
| > He wished he'd created something less expressive. He began to
| discuss type 1 innovations and type 2 innovations, with a nod to
| Daniel Kahneman, because he believed those terms were vague
| enough to force people to read and understand his work more
| closely.
|
| It makes me think about the way complex ideas get distorted and
| re-interpreted as they get repeated, like in a game of Telephone.
| munchbunny wrote:
| One of my litmus tests for whether I trust someone's judgement
| is whether they take the time to read and interpret the
| concept, and whether they openly admit when they have not.
|
| There are a few words that come to mind in my day to day where
| this definitely applies: "disruption," "affordance" (UX
| design), and "agile." All of them point back to an originating
| body of research and writing and then tons of discussion as the
| idea gained popularity, so there's a concrete test of "did you
| read it and try to internalize it?"
| The_mboga_real wrote:
| No latest photos or recent relevant research. Don't think about
| it, it means nothing to disruptive theory!
| theuri wrote:
| Beyond the Innovator's Dilemma work, I found his "How Will You
| Measure Your Life" a beautiful combination of heart + strategy +
| long game perspective. RIP. https://hbr.org/2010/07/how-will-you-
| measure-your-life
| codeproject wrote:
| Some times, when I look at some celebrity scholars, I scratched
| my head wondering what did they do to deserve their reputation.
| But Dr.Christensen's work is truly great. He is a genuine
| scholar. Innovator's dilemma is groundbreaking research. I
| learned a lot from the book. Intel CEO Andy Grove is a kind of
| arrogant guy for a lack of good words. Andy used to tell a16z's
| Partner Ben Horowize that He has a full shelf of Management books
| gifted from management Professors. Andy threw them away only keep
| the first page of each book with author's signature and nice
| words. From this article, Dr.Christensen's work apparently gained
| his respect. that is not an easy feat. Considering Andy Grove
| himself also wrote a great business book, high output management.
| Just check Dr.Christense's wiki page, He was a Rhode scholar. No
| wonder. Clayton Christensen, Rest In Peace. You are a wonderful
| Professor. Thank you. Miss You
| djoped wrote:
| Read about his cause of death here:
| https://sportinfo.com.ng/clayton-christensen-death-obituary-...
| neom wrote:
| His book How Will You Measure Your Life? is a really great read
| (all his books are great).
|
| Here is a good summery of his theory of disruptive innovation:
| https://online.hbs.edu/blog/post/4-keys-to-understanding-cla...
| mrosett wrote:
| I just want to add my voice to the long list of people saying
| that a) he was brilliant, and his work (particularly How Will You
| Measure Your Life) is worth reading and b) he was just a kind,
| decent human being. I met him once and his warmth really left an
| impression.
| CrazyCatDog wrote:
| This is incredibly tragic--Clayton had the courage to leverage
| data in a very confined setting. A recipe that rarely works in
| academia (I'm a b-school prof/associate dean). And, all the
| ingredients to his disruption thesis were already there in his
| study of the hard-drive industry. His capacity to take that ball
| and carry it from academia across to the managerial end-zone is a
| mere pipe-dream for most. For Clayton, it was second nature.
|
| His impact across both scholars and managers alike is--to this
| day--a singularity.
| jquinby wrote:
| I don't do a ton of business reading, but Christensen's stuff was
| top-notch and always on the short-list of recommendations I'd
| make to others.
| amrrs wrote:
| I think Clayton Christensen is one of those rare professors from
| Management B-School whose principles and theories made so much
| sense and helped a lot in many businesses and in fact in life.
|
| Things like Jobs to be done and How do you measure your life are
| wonderful things for anyone to pursue in life (in a general
| sense)
| bitL wrote:
| I remember his lecture at Harvard when he talked about how cancer
| diagnosis/heart attack changed him while he was writing "How Will
| You Measure Your Life". Father of disruptive innovation, RIP.
| jmhyer123 wrote:
| Any chance you have a link for this? I'd love to watch/read
| that.
| tomrod wrote:
| I will miss him. He was good folks.
| mmcconnell1618 wrote:
| I had a chance to see him at the Business of Software conference
| in 2011. Incredible mind. He will be missed.
|
| Here's the video of his talk: https://vimeo.com/63125209
| ticmasta wrote:
| Hey - me too! Had he recently had a stroke prior to that
| conference? I don't remember the details but thought something
| about bright lights really bothered him.
|
| Of note: I don't think he started his PHD until he was 50. I
| wish more people at this stage of their lives pursued his sort
| of deep, meaningful research combined with personal reflection
| and experience.
| glesperance wrote:
| I'm currently reading _Competing Against Luck_ and it is a truly
| eye-opening book that highlights and puts the finger on a lot of
| the luck-based innovation work we 've been doing over the years.
|
| I was planning on taking MR Christensen's online class[1] this
| coming April, but I wonder if this will still be happening given
| Mr Christensen's passed away.
|
| Would anyone have any good resource, online classes, books,
| videos, etc that they would recommend to learn more about Jobs to
| be Done and Disruptive Innovation Strategy? [1]
| https://online.hbs.edu/Documents/Syllabus_Disruptive_Strateg...
| irrational wrote:
| > he suffered a stroke that left him with expressive aphasia. The
| storyteller still could think and reason but no longer had the
| ability to direct his mouth to express the words in his head.
|
| My oldest son was born with expressive aphasia. Not being able to
| communicate what is in your head is so very frustrating. It must
| be so much more difficult for someone who previously could speak
| without difficulty.
| Dave_TRS wrote:
| Like many here I found "How Will You Measure Your Life"
| particularly helpful. The book was based on a letter to his
| students, which provides a nice summary and I keep handy to share
| with people:
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B50RBERcUJSba2Fmd2Z0VzdtZm8...
| guelo wrote:
| Somewhat off topic but it's interesting that Andy Grove was a big
| proponent of Christensen but Intel still got completely disrupted
| when the smartphone revolution kicked off. Though Grove was gone
| by the time of the iPhone he still should have seen it coming
| with the growing success of the Palm and Windows Mobile devices
| that preceded it.
| ghaff wrote:
| Intel's main problem with mobile was that they saw x86 as a big
| potential incumbent advantage given their dominance on desktop
| and server. Which _if they could have made competitive x86
| mobile chips_ would probably have been an absolutely correct
| observation. But they couldn 't even though they kept plugging
| away past the point of no return.
|
| I saw Intel presentations during the mid-2000s or so where they
| were making a big deal about how x86 processors had fewer
| issues with Flash than other architectures did.
| amoorthy wrote:
| I saw Dr. Christensen explain his theory at a talk given to me
| and ~100 HubSpot colleagues about 10 years ago. I don't remember
| any other speaker like I remember him. He was so kind and so
| clearly insightful. I know it sounds cheesy but he felt like an
| uncle you just wanted to sit by and listen to.
|
| May he rest in peace.
| gklitt wrote:
| He was such an intriguing thinker.
|
| I love this 2013 blog post from Ben Thompson. It's titled "What
| Clayton Christensen Got Wrong", but I think it ironically does a
| good job of showing how Christensen's ideas are actually
| interesting enough to deeply study and debate, unlike many others
| in business.
|
| https://stratechery.com/2013/clayton-christensen-got-wrong/
| mrosett wrote:
| Yeah, Ben is a big fan of Clayton Christensen. I doubt he would
| have written a post with that title if he didn't think
| Christensen got most things right.
| bart_spoon wrote:
| More than anything, I admire him for the way in exemplified a
| balanced life. He was obviously hugely influential in the realm
| of business, but his career was clearly only ever a single part
| of his life, rather than the entirety of his life. He was wise
| without being arrogant. He was spiritual and contemplative
| without being preachy. He seems very much like the kind of person
| I aspire to be.
| ticmasta wrote:
| So without stereotyping too harshly, I wonder if his humility
| came from his faith? I've met quite a few LDS who show
| significant tolerance for beliefs that conflict with their own,
| maybe because historically Mormons have been the victims of
| intolerance?
| ashton314 wrote:
| As with every religion, the faithfulness of its adherents to
| the religion's principles varies from person to person. But
| certainly the ideal that the Church of Jesus Christ of
| Latter-day Saints teaches is exactly that: humility,
| compassion, and tolerance, combined with courage to do what
| is right regardless of the circumstances.
|
| At least for members of the church living in Utah, many (no
| not all!) have some pioneer heritage. We frequently remind
| ourselves that persecution is a terrible thing and that we
| must be tolerant and respectful of other's beliefs.
| warent wrote:
| It's interesting because I've always perceived Mormonism (at
| least the dogmatic kind) as being intolerant given its
| history of racism and sexism. I suppose a lot has changed
| over the years, although I've still never met a black mormon
| and I even lived in Boise for like 4 years
| snuxoll wrote:
| > I've still never met a black mormon and I even lived in
| Boise for like 4 years
|
| Boisean myself, it's not exactly like we have much
| diversity here to begin with - on any given day it feels
| I'm as likely to spot a non-Caucasian individual as I am a
| unicorn.
|
| That said, I've known plenty of LDS members over my life,
| and just like any religious group you can see ones that are
| actually tolerant of other beliefs and ones that put on a
| mask and speak differently behind your back. Then there's
| the ones that would speak poorly directly to your face.
| samatman wrote:
| Neither race nor sex are beliefs, so that wouldn't be in
| contradiction to the comment you're replying to.
|
| I have no opinion on whether Mormons are racist, sexist, or
| tolerant of different beliefs. My limited experience with
| them suggests that they're easy-going and work hard, that's
| about all I've got.
| paulddraper wrote:
| > I've still never met a black mormon and I even lived in
| Boise for like 4 years
|
| You live in Boise. So...
|
| I know many black Mormons, but only in places with a
| significant black population.
|
| FWIW, Utah had a black LDS Congresswomen for the past
| several years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mia_Love
| tomrod wrote:
| Exmormon here who has spent significant time with relatively
| larger names in that org. No, Clay was pretty unique in my
| view. With due respect to him, the tolerance of conflicting
| belief often portrayed by his co-adherents is typically
| extended as a proselytizing or marketing tactic and isn't
| offered to former Mormon congregants terribly often (see
| reddit.com/r/exmormon for thousands of documented
| experiences, or the treatment of John Dehlin, Juanita Brooks,
| or Sam Young).
| bart_spoon wrote:
| I would say that r/exmormon may not be the best indication
| of the faith as the whole, as it is essentially the
| equivalent of a product review site where people with the
| the biggest axes to grind congregate and create bit of a
| bubble that is out of touch with reality, much like other
| subs that are essentially devoted to the dislike of or
| dissatisfaction with something like r/atheism, r/fuckepic,
| r/redpill, etc. That isn't to say there aren't valid
| individual experiences there. But they aren't reflective of
| the overall experience for most, even though they get
| painted that way.
|
| A large portion of my Mormon friends fall on the spectrum
| of belief that would range from "less devout" to
| "completely lapsed", and none of them have had issues with
| the church as an organization or with individuals. But as
| such they don't really care or look for communities of
| disaffected ex-mormons for support, so their perspectives
| aren't heard.
| tomrod wrote:
| I shared your feelings before leaving Mormonism (I was
| heavily involved in setting up the billboard community
| found in r/latterdaysaints and community engagement via
| r/mormon several years ago). Over 100k former Mormons are
| there. You get the full spectrum. It offers a community
| to people who are kicked out of where their weekly
| community is no longer available (really, read their
| experiences sometime). A lot of people get mistreated, at
| a minimum, or downright abused.
| DanCarvajal wrote:
| As an atheist who lives in Utah, I wish r/exmormon would
| calm down a bit. The echo chamber groupthink there is
| staggering.
| jjeaff wrote:
| Marketing tactic or not, if that is the behavior, that's
| the behavior, it's unfair to ascribe intentions and
| discount the behavior.
|
| There are definitely some LDS that fall into the trap of
| taking offense when someone leaves the religion and then
| don't treat that person well. They take it as a personal
| slight that someone else is claiming their religion is
| wrong. Either by actions or in words.
|
| But I have also noticed that many ex-mormons are like
| vegans. They want to tell everyone about it and preach to
| everyone else that is still "eating meat". There are also
| quite a few that are extra sensitive and seem to try to
| make themselves feel better by bashing their ex-religion
| and those that are still adherents.
| tomrod wrote:
| Look up Heartsell[0][1] sometime. Bonneville
| Communications is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Mormon
| church. They attempted to sell inclusion and heartfelt
| feelings as a marketing strategy.
|
| They got caught the first time and it was minorly bad PR.
| They haven't been caught since.
|
| Note this is what the central organization does, of which
| most of the congregants are naive or deliberately
| uninformed. When I taught missionaries how to be Mormon
| missionaries several decades ago, "BRT" was part of the
| sales principles--build a relationship of trust. Why? To
| get people to buy what you're selling. This is also
| taught to congregants not actively serving missions,
| though not as deeply. Consider the calls of "Every member
| a missionary" (McKay, 1960s), "Lengthen your stride"
| (Kimball, 1980s), "Hasten the work" (Bednar, 2010s) where
| membership is exhorted to use sales practices on their
| neighbors.
|
| It's not ascribing bad motives or pretending to know what
| motivated people, it's having grown up in it and now
| seeing it outside the organization, objectively and after
| years of therapy and deprogramming.
|
| [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20150219201604/http://www
| .bonnev...
|
| [1] http://johnlarsen.org/podcast/Archive/MormonExpressio
| n250.mp...
| dorian-graph wrote:
| BRT may have been your (and many others) approach to
| 'taught missionaries how to be Mormon missionaries), but
| it's not the only approach. ;)
|
| I was taught about building a relationship because it is
| more than just an attempt to 'convert' someone--what
| things in life do you _not_ build a relationship of trust
| with others? You need to have empathy, understand them,
| to be able to help (if so desired), etc. I met with
| people who in the end, after understanding them and their
| situation, we simply helped out in other ways (more
| material) ones.
|
| We weren't trying to sell things or increase numbers, but
| genuinely trying to help others. I had people who say
| they didn't care about the church, but because they
| trusted us, we helped them in other ways (finding work,
| overcoming alcohol addiction, etc).
|
| Were there others who just wanted to convert/baptise a
| million people? Yup, but they're missing the point.
| bart_spoon wrote:
| As a Mormon myself, I will be the first to say that there can
| and are plenty of Mormons who are not what I would consider
| tolerant. But on the whole, I think we are relatively
| tolerant in regards to other faiths and spiritual beliefs, in
| large part for the reason you state.
|
| I grew up in an area of the country without many Mormons, and
| was perhaps one of a dozen Mormon kids in a high school of
| well over a thousand students. I wouldn't say I was ever
| bullied over my religion in the traditional sense, I found it
| to be a pretty consistent source of discomfort and a feeling
| of being an "other". Often it could be innocuous (and often
| very fruitful) classroom discussions about Mormonism after
| the subject would come in class and the teacher would
| discover I was Mormon, and therefore became the focus of the
| discussion. Other times it would come in the form of other
| students asking me if I wore funny underwear or if my dad had
| lots of wives, and usually wasn't hostile in nature but made
| me feel pretty ostracized or defensive. And unfortunately I
| would get someone assuring me their pastor said I was going
| to hell, or accusing me of being in a cult, or offended that
| I could possibly be a Mormon when Joseph Smith/Brigham
| Young/Some other church figure said/did X without realizing
| that being Mormon for many people is as much a part of their
| cultural makeup and heritage as it is their religious belief,
| nor did I, an individual Mormon, of high school age,
| completely understand my own personal views, let alone be
| able to answer for everything ever uttered in the realm of
| Mormonism (which still is the case, now that I'm older). I
| found I bonded quite a bit with the handful of Muslim,
| Jewish, and Atheist kids as they were also in the minority
| and felt on the outs at times in my school.
|
| It probably also has to do with the 2 year missions many
| Mormons serve. It's a very unique and strange experience that
| opens your eyes to the world in a way that is hard to do
| otherwise. Because its missionary work people may assume the
| opposite, but for me, serving as a Mormon missionary in Japan
| made me realize how much I didn't know about people and the
| world, and the depth and breadth of human culture and
| individuality. It made me re-contextualize my beliefs and
| consider what I truly believed and what I had only been
| telling myself I believed. I think this is in part the reason
| why there are a decent number of Mormons who serve missions
| for two years and then eventually move away from the church.
| But for those who don't it provides an opportunity to learn
| about and get to know other spiritual and cultural
| perspectives that is hard to match.
| paulddraper wrote:
| As with many religions, "tolerance" is a sensitive issue:
| blacks, women, LGBT.
|
| But yes, there is the stereotype of a humble/reserved
| successful Mormon businessman. (E.g. I'd put Mitt Romney in
| that category too)
| daxorid wrote:
| The LDS Church put its "racist" past behind itself fairly
| easily because the "Mark of Cain" canard was trivial to
| dismiss as misinterpretation.
|
| LGBT acceptance will be a _much, much_ tougher slog for
| them, given the central and critical importance that
| eternal families play in its doctrine and view of spiritual
| progression.
| paulddraper wrote:
| Indeed; I doubt LGBT will ever be "accepted" (that is,
| esteemed as virtuous) by the LDS Church. As you said, it
| runs directly contrary to core doctrines.
| wahern wrote:
| Not many religions in the U.S. have tolerance issues with
| "blacks" or "women", per se. The LDS church was unique in
| that regard. But to be fair, that aspect seems to have been
| sincerely discarded. What lingers is the uncomfortable
| landscape it finds itself in, and given the background
| racial landscape in the U.S., I'm sure it'll be an
| especially long journey out of that wilderness.
| jjeaff wrote:
| That's laughable. How many black congregants do you think
| there were in white churches in the south in the 70s?
| There were no public curfuffles because it's simply not
| an issue if there are literally zero people of another
| race in your congregation.
| quindecagon wrote:
| How many are there today? Churches are one of the last
| places in american that are mostly segregated.
|
| > As many as 87% of Christian churches in the United
| States are completely made up of only White or African-
| American parishioners.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_segregation_of_churc
| hes...
| compiler-guy wrote:
| The LDS church was not unique in that regard at all. They
| are just ~30 years behind the society around them.
|
| For example, they had massive problems fully accepting
| blacks until the seventies, which was long after most
| mainstream religions got over their issues. But most
| mainstream religions (at least the protestand ones) had
| all kinds of trouble themselves in the forties.
|
| The LDS church isn't unique in its problems, it's just
| decades behind.
| asveikau wrote:
| I have no data, just a guess based on my understanding of
| cultural history, but I have to imagine that many
| churches in the US have been segregated at the local
| level and often de facto, rather than as a larger thing
| with formal institutional endorsement.
|
| For example, we Americans stereotype Catholicism as
| reflecting some European immigrant communities like
| Irish, Italians, Polish... But it's always been ok for an
| African American to be a Catholic. Probably in prior eras
| especially some of those communities of white Europeans
| would not have been terribly welcoming to such a person
| to say the least. But you couldn't say the international
| organization with HQ in Rome was against them being
| members. Or maybe I am wrong.
| bart_spoon wrote:
| I think it's probably more to the structure of the
| denominations themselves. Like Catholicism, central to
| Mormonism is the central authority of the church,
| including priesthood authority. Most Protestant
| denominations, predominant in the US, are not nearly as
| rigid in their beliefs regarding priesthood authority,
| centralized authority, or even a set dogma. If your local
| Baptist/Lutheran/Methodist church isn't tolerant of
| certain beliefs, or you don't feel comfortable there, it
| is relatively easier to just start up your own church. In
| Mormonism (and Catholicism), this doesn't happen, because
| the centralized authority of the church is a key piece of
| the doctrine. For Protestant denominations, they largely
| reject this central authority, so they tend to be more
| fluid on these topics. In regards to race, this wasn't an
| issue with the Catholic church, but with other topics
| (say, celibacy of priests), there aren't "we maintain the
| legitimacy of the Church in Rome but our priests aren't
| celibate" type denominations popping up much.
|
| I suspect this is why, even though there was much by way
| of explicit prohibition of races in many churches
| throughout the US, most churches seemed to have ended up
| segregated anyways.
| paulddraper wrote:
| Almost every religion that has been around as long as the
| LDS Church has the same issues.
|
| But if you're comparing it to churches that have been
| around only 10, 30, or 50 years, sure.
|
| ---
|
| It used to be that the LDS Church was "too" pro-black by
| society's standards.
|
| That was a large reason for Missouri's infamous Mormon
| "Extermination Order":
|
| > We believed them deluded fanatics, or weak and
| designing knaves, and that they and their pretensions
| would soon pass away; but in this we were deceived...In a
| late number of the Star [the Mormon newspaper], published
| in Independence by the leaders of the sect, there is an
| article inviting free Negroes and mulattoes from other
| states to become "Mormons," and remove and settle among
| us. This exhibits them in still more odious colors...the
| introduction of such a caste among us would corrupt our
| blacks, and instigate them to bloodshed.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Executive_Order_44
|
| Yes somehow, very few discussions of Missouri immediately
| turn to its history of racism.
| castlecrasher2 wrote:
| Not to mention Utah was the second state to grant women
| the right to vote.
| dorian-graph wrote:
| I've found it to be fairly true/common with LDS people. A lot
| of the foundational beliefs and programs in the church around
| the family, and about having balance. Last year the Sabbath
| day service was shortened an hour from 3 to 2, with one of
| the purposes to reduce the time away from family.
| bryanrasmussen wrote:
| From someone who lived in Utah for 20+ years and whose
| stepfamily are all Mormon, I wouldn't think of tolerance as
| one of the faith's defining characteristics.
|
| Although the intolerance often manifests itself as the kind
| of fake niceness found in movies when an old lady character
| needs to belittle someone with a sweet smile or calmly shut
| them out of polite society, not the fire breathing
| intolerance that wants to wage holy war.
| dorian-graph wrote:
| > From someone who lived in Utah for 20+ years
|
| Members in Utah are different to members outside of Utah,
| haha.
| bryanrasmussen wrote:
| yeah that's pretty well known too. proximity to the
| prophet I suppose.
| mrkstu wrote:
| I'd say its mostly just majority in-group dynamics that
| you'd find anywhere that a majority shared any
| characteristic. That combined with well intentioned
| missionary zeal will of course cause issues.
|
| That said, the Salt Lake Valley is now under 50% LDS- the
| previous Mayor is Lesbian and its pretty progressive
| generally.
| chrispeel wrote:
| I did not find Christensen to be especially humble. I recall
| thinking his response to Jill Lepore's story [1] to be ... not
| humble.
|
| To be clear, I think Christensen's ideas are useful.
|
| [1] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/06/23/the-
| disruption...
| scarface74 wrote:
| Well, he did write a book about living a balanced life:
|
| "How to measure your life". He wrote it with James Allworth -
| the cohost of Exponent. A podcast with Ben Thompson of
| Stratechery fame.
| bart_spoon wrote:
| I know. And the reason it is so excellent is because he
| practices what he preaches in the book.
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