[HN Gopher] The iPad Awkwardly Turns 10
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The iPad Awkwardly Turns 10
Author : h9n
Score : 476 points
Date : 2020-01-28 04:21 UTC (18 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (daringfireball.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (daringfireball.net)
| broodbucket wrote:
| iPads have complete market dominance in the world of the kiddies.
| I can't believe how many there are - big iPads in big cases,
| young children playing with some game or watching YouTube Kids. I
| don't think it's the market Apple invisioned, but it's a hugely
| successful one regardless.
|
| I think judging the iPad based on changes they make for power
| users is near pointless in terms of its success.
| ekianjo wrote:
| > iPads have complete market dominance in the world of the
| kiddies.
|
| Hence it can almost be fitting to categorize them as toys.
| irrational wrote:
| I use them for real work. Taking notes (the split windows
| view is awesome for this - notes app in one window and the
| book in the other), reading, creating illustrations and other
| artwork, etc. I don't think they are a toy at all. I have a
| desktop computer and a couple of high end laptops, but I
| still reach for the ipad most often.
| ekianjo wrote:
| I have a very different take. I am much faster with a
| keyboard and keyboard shortcuts, and I hate glossy screens.
| Every time I use an Ipad this brings my productivity down
| compared to having an actual laptop. Honestly I cannot say
| I have seen people do real work on an Ipad. Just browsing
| and very short messages.
| scarface74 wrote:
| Because people are paying money for 12.9 iPad Pros with a
| keyboard, pencil and cellular as toys.
| x3ro wrote:
| He says nothing about success, but about personal
| disappointment with the product. Why would you judge that
| against other people's experiences?
| broodbucket wrote:
| I wasn't really responding directly to the blog, more the
| title and the discussion I expected it to bring. Doing that
| was probably not the best idea in hindsight, I just see
| people judging products like the iPad as if their success
| relies specifically on the demographic they exist in
| jonplackett wrote:
| What I didn't appreciate before having kids was the sky high
| valuation you put on a little peace and quiet, especially while
| travelling.
|
| Kid not screaming for X hours on a flight is a reason to buy
| and iPad for that trip alone.
|
| Plus you can easily justify it to yourself as 'educational'.
| trey-jones wrote:
| Ten years ago this was a good reminder that what I want is not
| necessarily what the majority want. Make that "definitely not
| what the majority want". I thought the iPad was a stupid idea
| that I had no use for. I still feel mostly that way (though I
| think it could be handy for easy page turns in music).
|
| Obviously I was wrong about it being a stupid idea, and I'm happy
| to own that. I've built several apps specific to iPad over the
| years, and I'm going to start another one today.
|
| I _do_ also think that iOS has fallen behind Android in several
| important ways in the last 2 or 3 years. Not in every way, but
| things like the Keyboard on iOS drive me crazy. Can't speak for
| iPad OS. Today will be my first experience with that.
| jsight wrote:
| Aren't keyboards (finally) replacable on iOS, though?
| Marsymars wrote:
| It drops back to the system keyboard sometimes - in my case,
| that difference was too jarring to make a non-stock keyboard
| practical to use at all.
| fortran77 wrote:
| Imagine how powerful an iPad could be if you could run GNU/Linux
| well on it:
|
| https://ipadlinux.org/
|
| Instead of iOS, Arch GNU/Linux! It's too bad that even old iPads
| haven't been figured out enough to bring first-class GNU/Linux
| support to these machines.
| dangus wrote:
| I'm surprised that John Gruber hasn't just turned off split
| screen for his mom:
|
| Settings > General > Multitasking and Dock > Allow Multiple Apps
| (Off)
|
| > But if I could go back to the pre-split-screen, pre-drag-and-
| drop interface I would.
|
| I think you can, check your settings.
| koboll wrote:
| I do digital painting on the side, as a hobby. In that field, the
| iPad Pro, specifically the Procreate app, has been revolutionary
| -- every single famous digital illustrator, concept artist, and
| comics artist I follow on Instagram has one, and they post
| gorgeous work done on them regularly. It's the only tool that
| comes remotely close to challenging the gold standard workflow of
| Wacom tablet + Photoshop, and Wacom and Adobe have been feeling
| the heat, ratcheting up their marketing efforts to try and
| attract back budding young artists to their tools.
|
| On the other hand, the iPad can't seem to actually _replace_
| those tools. Those pro artists still use a Wacom for their
| professional corporate work. The problem is less the software, I
| think, than the limitations the software forces by nature of the
| hardware. For professional work, you need as big a screen as
| possible -- Wacoms go up to 32 ". You also need hotkeys for an
| efficient workflow. Hunting and tapping through menus on a
| touchscreen is, by nature, going to be slower then having your
| left hand ready to hit the undo command at a moment's notice.
| Sure, it might be possible to plug a big external screen and a
| full keyboard into your iPad, but at that point, is it really an
| iPad anymore? What professional artist would bother buying an
| iPad to act as a desktop computer tower when they could buy an
| actual desktop computer tower with better specs for cheaper?
|
| So the iPad is about as good as it can possibly be: such a good
| touchscreen tablet that professional artists love it in all
| situations where they're willing to sacrifice power and
| flexibility for the convenience of a fully portable touchscreen
| tablet. It's not very good at replacing a full professional art
| setup on a desktop. But should it really aspire to be? In other
| words, I agree with this article, but disagree with its
| conclusions. Tablets won't replace laptops not because the iPad
| isn't a good enough tablet, but because they're simply never
| going to be the most efficient work machine you can buy.
| derefr wrote:
| > Hunting and tapping through menus on a touchscreen is, by
| nature, going to be slower then having your left hand ready to
| hit the undo command at a moment's notice.
|
| I've seen DJs and other performance-artist using mixing
| software that actually spreads its control UX over _several_
| tablets. I wonder why no professional studio program has copied
| that?
|
| (I'm not suggesting you'd need to own, like, five iPad Pros.
| More like one iPad Pro to draw on, and then a pile of random
| $100 Android tablets each showing one palette window.)
|
| I think I did once see a demo where someone had a second iPad
| that acted entirely as an painter's palette for the drawing on
| the primary iPad. And I mean "palette" literally: it was a
| canvas to smear and mix literal paint blobs around, with
| accurate optical results, which you could then sample with a
| brush tool, or take a cut of with a painting-knife tool.
| callmeed wrote:
| Would you mind sharing some of your favorite IG follows for
| illustration? I'm just getting into this on the iPad.
| mdorazio wrote:
| I'm curious why iPad Pro and not Surface, which from my
| (admittedly limited) use has always had digitizer
| responsiveness and functionality at the same level, with the
| benefit of also being a computer with all the normal software
| workflow and hotkeys.
| derefr wrote:
| From what I recall of the blogosphere reaction when the iPad
| Pro first came out, I think it having a 120Hz refresh rate
| had a lot to do with it. Not sure if the Surface has since
| caught up, but the generation of the Surface out at the iPad
| Pro's release wasn't nearly as responsive-feeling.
| d--b wrote:
| > "It's just a big iPhone" was the most common initial criticism
|
| > The iPad has been a spectacular success, and to tens of
| millions it is a beloved part of their daily lives, but it has,
| to date, fallen short of revolutionary.
|
| Yes, well it has fallen short of revolutionary, probably because
| it's just a big iphone, (or a laptop without keyboard). There was
| no new paradigm here.
| kerrsclyde wrote:
| Plenty of iPad use within industry. Using it as more than just a
| consumption device.
|
| Yesterday the guy fixing the mobile traffic lights was using an
| iPad to configure them / My gym gets me to change my membership
| plan using an iPad within a floor standing cabinet.
| k_bx wrote:
| Ukraine's biggest bank Privat Bank figured that having the
| system on iPad is pretty superior to computers, they got LTE,
| batteries and even camera to make client's photo. So now their
| computers are mostly not used.
| thomasfl wrote:
| The iPad has slowly revolutionized personal computing. After the
| music production apps became available, including Apples own
| Garageband, the iPad has become a very common sketching tool for
| musicians. When the Apple pen and the Procreate became available,
| the iPad pro also became one of the most used tools for painting
| and sketching. An iPad pro with Apples keyboard, is more useable
| for most common day users than most windows based laptops.
| fiblye wrote:
| >When the Apple pen and the Procreate became available, the
| iPad pro also became one of the most used tools for painting
| and sketching.
|
| Yep. I had zero interest in tablets whatsoever, but the day I
| saw the Apple Pencil had launched, I went to a store to try it
| out. Ended up buying it and an iPad after less than 5 minutes
| of thinking.
|
| Drawing pads for PCs were a pretty bad market before Apple
| hopped into the game. Your only real options were buying a
| "cheap" tablet at a couple hundred bucks (the lower end ones
| are inaccurate and barely a step above struggling with a mouse)
| with no screen and trying to adapt to drawing without looking
| directly at your hands, or you could spend a huge amount of
| cash on a drawing pad with a screen built in. The latter was
| really only available for people with loads of cash to spare
| and certainty that they'll be getting their money's worth.
|
| An iPad with a Pencil barely costs more than a garbage bin
| drawing tablet, but you get a highly responsive screen and
| direct input. All of that plus Procreate is about the price of
| a 2 year Photoshop scheme.
|
| The last thing to open up the digital art world this much to
| normal folk was Paint.exe.
| catalogia wrote:
| > _An iPad pro with Apples keyboard, is more useable for most
| common day users than most windows based laptops._
|
| Do you think a young novice user with such an iPad, rather than
| a windows or mac laptop, would be as likely to develop a more
| advanced computer skillset? iOS seems easier for common users
| because it's more regimented, but I wonder if that same trait
| might leave less room for creative exploration of the machine
| itself. I can't say I have a lot of experience using iPads, so
| I'm curious what others think.
| irrational wrote:
| We have a desktop computer, a few laptops, and a few iPads.
| I've never seen any of my kids (elementary school age up to
| college age) try to creatively explore the machine itself.
| I'm a programmer and I've even tried to interest them in
| programming. Nope. All they are interested in is Facebook,
| Instagram, and other web pages. If it doesn't take place in a
| browser windows, they have no interest. But, they aren't even
| interested in web development! A computer is just a tool.
| They have no more interest in looking under the hood than
| they do tearing apart the engine of a car to see how it
| works. As long as the car gets them from A to Z, that is all
| that matters. If it breaks, well, that is someone else's job
| to fix.
| AlanYx wrote:
| I think that's the biggest lost opportunity of the iPad. I
| read through Alan Kay's Early History of Smalltalk [1] essay
| recently, and the level of applications young teenagers were
| developing with the rudimentary hardware is truly
| astonishing. The iPad is not facilitating that type of thing
| for the most part, but it also arguably goes in the opposite
| direction, encouraging a highly siloed, app-centric view of
| computing where users have even less direct agency over data.
|
| [1]: http://worrydream.com/EarlyHistoryOfSmalltalk/
| dirktheman wrote:
| Our iPad 2 (bought new in 2011) is still being used on a daily
| basis by our kids. Battery life is still more than sufficient and
| it's not too slow to run some games, YouTube or Netflix. I think
| it's the longest we've done with a single electronic device ever!
| theriddlr wrote:
| It's good value for money due to its lifespan. My family's iPad 2
| is 8 years old and still going strong. Daily game-playing and web
| surfing sites still compatible with the old version of Safari.
| Whereas my Samsung Note tablet died after 2 years and wouldn't
| charge.
| totaldude87 wrote:
| One recent thing that i hate about latest iPadOS is the automatic
| readable mode for websites.. you cant just put readable mode on
| all sites :|
| sneak wrote:
| > _The iPads Pro outperform MacBooks computationally._
|
| How quickly Gruber falls in line with the propaganda machine the
| moment that official guidance (Airpods Pro) comes out. :D
| GolDDranks wrote:
| I bought my first and only tablet, an iPad, two years back. I
| havent't much used it since then. I bet it would be great for
| reading and watching videos, but the moment I want to type
| something, I just become needlessly irritated and switch back to
| my MacBook Pro.
|
| It's not just typing on a touch screen; that's awful, but then I
| bought a keyboard. But using the Dvorak layout, Scandinavian
| letters and Japanese input in my daily life makes iPad just not
| cut it. It's not a flexible device like a PC is. I still haven't
| been able to type the way I'd want to.
| pcurve wrote:
| Not to be funny, but I had almost 500 subscriptions to youtube
| channels. On desktop, Youtube made it deliberately hard to
| unsubscribe (it used to be easier), on ipad, the experience is
| much better. I also find netflix ux less crappy on ipad than on
| desktop.
| lobster45 wrote:
| The aspect ratio of the iPad is not great for video which is
| mostly a widescreen format. I really don't like losing so
| much screen real estate. Sometimes I prefer my iPhone XS Max
| to watch a video on than my iPad Air. I specifically bought a
| kindle Fire 10" tablet to watch videos. Everything else on
| the iPad is superior to the kindle
| eru wrote:
| I use Dvorak on my Kineses Advantage (and every other
| keyboard). I tried dvorak layout on the phone and tablet, but
| didn't like it. I think qwerty's design of making commonly-
| consecutive letters far apart might actually help here? (Or
| perhaps the autocorrect is just much better at correcting
| typical qwerty mistakes than dvorak mistakes?)
| tiffanyh wrote:
| It's interesting how success & potential is defined.
|
| iPad generates ~$20B/year in revenue with huge margins. [1]
|
| If iPad was a standalone business, it be the 156th largest
| company in the world by revenue (Fortune). [2]
|
| How can having a _single product_ where only 155 entire
| _companies_ are bigger than it, "not live up to its potential"?
|
| [1] https://sixcolors.com/post/2019/10/apple-results-64b-in-
| reve...
|
| [2] https://fortune.com/fortune500/2019/search/
| antipaul wrote:
| This is not what the Steve Jobs era prioritized. Revolutionary
| product first, market share and revenue second.
|
| Gruber follows that philosophy
| ajscanlan wrote:
| If the iPad was a standalone business, and had no access to the
| Apple ecosystem or brand, do you think it would still generate
| ~$20B/year?
|
| Obviously we can't know, but the point is success is relative.
|
| Some people might expect better from Apple and so their
| standard for success is higher than $20B/year on one of their
| flagship products.
| rusk wrote:
| Any chance we could get a Ctrl-F type function?
|
| I'm enjoying the mental training of learning to scan text for
| keywords myself, but from time to time this is a feature that I
| miss ...
| itsaride wrote:
| You mean the "find on this page" function? Type a word in the
| search bar on a page then scroll to the bottom of the overlay
| that pops up.
| rusk wrote:
| FANTASTIC thank you!
|
| Works in Safari anyway.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| The advantage of a keyboard-initiated search is that it works
| in all apps (or damned well should).
|
| Mind: on Android, with a keyboard (bluetooth), poor app
| support is frustratingly apparent. Even where basic keyboard
| input is recognised, obvious things don't work as expected.
|
| In Pocket, the backspace/delete keys won't delete tags.
|
| In PocketBook (an eBook reader), hitting space when entering
| a search term (which cannot be initiated with Ctrl-F) ...
| scrolls forward in the document.
|
| Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...
| rusk wrote:
| yes android physical keyboard support is completely
| useless.
|
| I bought one of those foldy keyboard android tablets
| thinking I could use it as an _about the house_ small
| laptop, but the issues you describe, and yet others, made
| it an utterly futile exercise.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| Or just press Command-F on the keyboard =)
| rusk wrote:
| not if you're using the touchscreen as god intended
| gwbas1c wrote:
| > The iPad at 10 is, to me, a grave disappointment.
|
| The biggest disappointment to me is that I can't buy a Macbook
| that converts into a tablet. I've never owned a tablet, and my
| wife never replaced her 1st generation iPad, because there's just
| too much overlap between tablet and phone; and between tablet and
| laptop.
|
| And, as far as multitasking goes: When I do _serious_ work that
| requires that kind of multitasking, I need a keyboard and mouse.
| Furthermore, I 'll probably be sitting in a chair, at a desk,
| with a giant monitor... Multitasking is just an absurd use case
| for a "tablet." Instead, it shows that "tablet" and "laptop" just
| need to converge to be the same ^%#$ device.
|
| Windows tablets might suck, but at least you don't have to own
| two devices!
| dangus wrote:
| On the contrary, Apple is the only one who has this market
| figured out.
|
| Ever see anyone at a coffee shop using a Surface Pro in tablet
| mode? I haven't. That's because the second you sit down to
| complete tasks for more than a minute or two you'll want a
| keyboard at least if not a mouse, too.
|
| In my view that eliminates productivity as a legitimate use for
| a tablet. There's no way I'd prefer touching my screen to the
| kind of keyboard and trackpad you get on a MacBook Pro.
|
| Next up, content consumption. As you mentioned, your phone
| covers this use case. I watch videos on the bus nearly every
| day and never desired a tablet. If you need that bigger screen,
| you've either already got a computer because you do productive
| work, or you buy a cheap tablet because you don't need all the
| extra stuff a computer has, or you've got a bigger phone. Why
| would I watch content on a tablet when my laptop or TV can do
| that? A tablet doesn't even stand itself up on my lap. I think
| only kids tolerate consuming content this way.
|
| Finally, there's the creative market. Apple has this nailed
| down with the iPad Pro. The only other reason to need a tablet
| over a phone or laptop is to do digital art. These are probably
| the only folks who need to buy two devices, but they've needed
| to buy expensive computer peripherals for ages.
|
| So I think what you're asking for is for someone to find the
| really tiny market who wants their tablet to do full computer
| stuff but doesn't prefer a proper laptop computer, and then
| make special software modifications just for them like
| Microsoft did.
| pier25 wrote:
| > _Ever see anyone at a coffee shop using a Surface Pro in
| tablet mode? I haven't. That's because the second you sit
| down to complete tasks for more than a minute or two you'll
| want a keyboard at least if not a mouse, too._
|
| Precisely because they are sitting on table. Have you seen
| those same users in their couch or bed?
| dangus wrote:
| So basically, add a table and a tablet becomes silly. That
| isn't a good look for that device category. Who doesn't
| have a table?
|
| Now imagine how many of those people wouldn't just use
| their phone while sitting on the couch or bed instead. Why
| should I use a tablet over my 6 inch phone screen? Why use
| a tablet instead of my TV?
|
| The only two devices most people would need to own are a
| laptop and a phone. The tablet is an awkward third device
| that generally isn't needed, or it's a "cheapest possible
| laptop" replacement for people who don't need a lot of
| computing ability (emails, web browsing). Buying a Surface
| Pro instead of a proper laptop is itself a compromise.
| pier25 wrote:
| > So basically, add a table and a tablet becomes silly
|
| Yeah, I didn't express that right. What I meant is that a
| Surface would make more sense in a coffee shop as a
| laptop than a tablet.
|
| > Why should I use a tablet over my 6 inch phone screen?
| Why use a tablet instead of my TV?
|
| In most situations I'd rather use my tablet than my
| phone.
|
| The TV for me is relegated to watching tv shows/movies
| with the home theater. For anything that is casual like
| youtube I prefer using my tablet.
| pcurve wrote:
| Yeah tablet serves generally different market, but it can
| also meets needs of existing laptop users who just want more
| portable media consumption device, whether around bedroom,
| bathroom, or on a plane on business trip where you're likely
| to have locked-down work-issued PC.
| [deleted]
| dangus wrote:
| You're absolutely right. This leads into the four markets
| that I think the tablet can sell to:
|
| 1. For kids or secondary throw-around devices (like for
| travel).
|
| 2. Digital Art and pen-based content creation.
|
| 3. People who won't otherwise use their phone (in my view,
| not many).
|
| 4. Point of sale, retail, mobile enterprise computing.
|
| The key here is understanding that it's not like everyone
| threw out their personal computers when the tablet and
| phone was invented. They just aren't replaced as often as
| phones.
|
| That's where I don't think tablets compete well against
| someone's existing laptop. If Apple let the iPad run full
| macOS software without the App Store that still wouldn't
| convince me to buy one, even if that would be a welcome
| change.
|
| So, I guess that's my overall point here: tablets have to
| compete with proper computers and I don't think they've
| succeeded. The Surface Pro _turns into_ a proper computer
| and it's telling that most people use it as a laptop, not a
| keyboard-less tablet.
| tguedes wrote:
| There is a clear use case for the iPad, it just depends on if
| that use case justifies the price for an additional device.
|
| The iPad is the best portable device for reading (besides a
| kindle), watching entertainment, or using an Apple Pencil.
|
| Just because you don't have a use case for it, doesn't mean no
| one does.
| gwbas1c wrote:
| > Just because you don't have a use case for it, doesn't mean
| no one does.
|
| My point was: A Macbook with a foldable or detachable screen
| can handle that use case.
|
| Once you have a laptop that's also a tablet, multitasking in
| tablet mode is silly.
| jimbokun wrote:
| What's sad about this, is that iPad Pro has more than enough
| computational power to replace a laptop for almost all the
| tasks people use laptops for. Just using wireless peripherals
| or a dock should make the iPad Pro work for serious tasks just
| fine.
|
| But as daringfireball explains, the problem is with the poorly
| thought out UI choices. It feels almost like the iPad is
| deliberately hobbled in many ways, but I think it's just poor
| management.
| twsted wrote:
| I agree completely with Gruber's analysis:
|
| the multi-tasking, drag&drop, split-screen interface is very
| complex and confusing even for me, who have been using the iPad
| for ten years.
| Brave-Steak wrote:
| > the multi-tasking, drag&drop, split-screen interface is very
| complex and confusing even for me, who have been using the iPad
| for ten years.
|
| I use my iPad Pro's multitasking stuff daily and it still
| confuses and infuriates me. Who came up with this stuff?
| killjoywashere wrote:
| The issue is the entrance into split-view, which should expose
| the springboard, not the dock.
|
| The intuitive way to launch a second app would be to slide in
| from the right or left with two (three?) fingers, which would
| expose a compressed view of the springboard in split view. Then
| you could access all the apps intuitively (by swiping to the next
| page of apps) and launch the second app in the intuitive click-
| an-app method. This could even be tiled in a golden-rectangle
| geometry to expose a third app.
|
| All you're trying to do is repurpose the slide-right slide-left
| function to expose springboard in a new way, which can be done
| with a multi-finger gesture.
| zaphoyd wrote:
| Yes yes yes. I've often wondered why they didn't do this.
| Having to go through silly hoops like full exit back to the
| spring board to launch an app so that it is available in the
| dock to pick for split view... why not just use the springboard
| in the first place.
| Marsymars wrote:
| My feeling is that they've deliberately avoided gestures that
| are similar to Windows 8 tablet UI.
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| I have been using some version of an iPad since the day it came
| out. Version 1 is still alive and kicking and being used by our 3
| year old, so far, it has been the most robust :)
|
| Pros: biometrics / security / immediately usable to check email
|
| Cons: software has started going all SAAS and Apple allowed
| developers to upgrade and break previous versions to force users
| on to SAAS versions
| Slartie wrote:
| The iPad has failed as a general purpose computing device, sure.
| But it has succeeded (along with other tablet devices of similar
| form factor) as a basis for a large and growing number of single-
| purpose use cases in various industries:
|
| - iPad POS are popular in smaller coffee shops and similar
| outlets
|
| - iPad-based document viewing solutions are used by pilots to
| replace large bags with manuals for planes that they used to lug
| around
|
| - iPads are used for meeting room management solutions,
| information displays for customers and similar purposes where one
| single application is to be run basically 24/7 on a device with
| low power and space requirements, but where certain aesthetic
| requirements to the app as well as the hardware have to be
| satisfied
|
| Granted, iPads don't hold this space exclusively. But so don't
| iPhones or Macs hold their respective application spaces
| exclusively, even though they significantly catalyzed their
| genesis.
| gehsty wrote:
| I don't think you can really say that the iPad has failed as a
| general computing device, and that it is propped up by the
| situations below. What do you think generates $20B in sales?
| That's a lot of tills flight aids.
|
| I think the iPad has succeeded as a general purpose computation
| device for normal people who use computers for email / music /
| Facetime / photos etc.
|
| Always seems like its the 'power users' who don't seem to
| understand the iPad when the average person can pick one up and
| do most things they want to do with one.
| Slartie wrote:
| That is not what I would consider "general computing device",
| more like "media consumption device", and yes, it is fairly
| good at that.
|
| I would require a device to be regularly used for content
| creation as well in order for it to qualify as "general
| computing device". But pretty much the only "content
| creation" that I see happening on iPads in normal peoples'
| households is writing emails. By that account, our
| smartphones are certainly more qualified for the "general
| computing device" tag, because those are regularly used to
| create photos and videos in addition to mails and instant
| messages.
| gehsty wrote:
| If by computer programming or media creation (videos etc)
| then I would say what you want is a specialist computing
| device - most people do not use their computers to do this,
| nor need them to be able to.
|
| With an iPad you can write all the emails you want, edit
| and share photos, create word docs and basic spreadsheets,
| which is enough for the vast majority of people. I agree
| that phones are also general purpose computers, most people
| can get away with just having a phone now.
|
| Maybe we dont agree on 'general' as a term, I mean what
| most people need or want, I think you maybe mean can do
| lots of different things?
| flixic wrote:
| The issue with each of these examples is that hardware
| advancements barely matter. $200 Android tablet with a simple
| enough design works just as well.
|
| Apple doesn't want to participate in such markets. That's why
| they try to push creativity narrative, "what's a computer" and
| so on. iPad can only succeed as a premium enough product, and
| that requires software differentiation.
| Slartie wrote:
| I get that, but after all it's not really Apple's choice what
| their buyers do with their devices. If they overwhelmingly
| decide the iPad is a nice base for this kind of application,
| Apple can either embrace that decision and cater to these
| customers (of which a good part are obviously ready to at
| least pay more than those $200 for the cheap Android tablet
| option, probably because of better update support as
| suggested by that other comment alongside this one) or try to
| make the device appealing to other target markets that they'd
| like to be in.
|
| But when those other markets don't really take the bait, at
| some point it might be a good idea to accept that there is a
| market, but in a somewhat different place than originally
| anticipated.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| iPad succeeds in these examples because it's a consistent
| environment with updates.
|
| The problem with the cheap Android tablet is that unless the
| entire world standardises on a single model of tablet for
| these purposes you'd have all kinds of quirks around
| hardware, etc. Updates are also another issue even on
| premium-priced Android devices, so the cheap one is a lost
| cause.
| flixic wrote:
| Updates themselves are an assumption. I imagine a large
| percentage of cafe checkout and meeting room booking
| tablets are never updated once installed.
|
| The distinction here is Appliance vs Computing Platform.
| And so far many tablets are seen as appliances, not
| computers.
| samatman wrote:
| If they're iPads, this is unlikely.
|
| All one has to do is leave them connected to power and
| WiFi overnight.
|
| It's more likely that the typical cafe checkout iPad is
| silently updated on a regular basis, after close of
| business, and the staff don't notice at all; since
| they're going to be password protected, they just punch
| in in the morning, as usual.
| Mindwipe wrote:
| I doubt it's so much doing updates as it is about
| support. If they have a vendor app (like Square on a
| tablet to take payments) and that abandons older OS
| versions to lower technical debt or for security reasons
| then at least they can update.
|
| On Android you'd sadly find the lack of kernel
| compatibility with the chipset means that ever happens.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| Updates can be provided by the community in many cases. Buy
| cheap LineageOS-supported tablet, unlock the bootloader and
| put LineageOS on, you're done. (Then once pmOS gets good
| enough for your use case, your device will be software-
| supported for the entirety of its useful life, by a
| mainstream, desktop-like OS. You don't get anything like
| that on the iPad - the best you can do is reuse it as an
| additional screen for a Mac via Sidecar.)
| Nextgrid wrote:
| The community is not an acceptable answer for a business
| deploying thousands of these. With an iPad you are
| guaranteed X years of updates. With the community, you
| may or may not get an update, it might have quirks and
| installing it might be non-trivial.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| If you're deploying "thousands" of these devices, you
| _can_ standardize on a single model and even get custom
| support. The iPad might still be a good choice then, but
| it 's definitely not the only one.
| adamsea wrote:
| Yeah but you have to think about it. I feel like for many
| businesses thought/effort/time -- even only a little - is
| more valuable than money.
|
| [edit] and you also need to have someone whose aware of
| those options to begin with which is less common outside
| prigramming enthusiasts imho. Because Apple has amazing
| marketing discovering an iPad solution is easy.
| lukifer wrote:
| "No one ever got fired for buying iPads" is the new "No
| one ever got fired for choosing IBM".
| OnuRC wrote:
| This reminds me time (2013) where I had to choice new Nexus 7
| or Ipad Mini 2. They were close in the price, in my country
| and they were both new. In few years , Nexus stopped getting
| updated and support but that Ipad mini got even ios 12 and
| still works well. For me Apple hardware is consistent and
| reliable that it can work well even more than 5 years.
| rsynnott wrote:
| > . $200 Android tablet with a simple enough design works
| just as well.
|
| I mean, the normal (and I assume best selling) iPad is about
| 300, and will likely be supported for a lot longer than the
| Android one (my Air 2 is getting on for 6 years old).
| chungus_khan wrote:
| Having serviced many kiosk-type iPad devices, expecting the
| operator to update is incredibly wishful thinking.
| octokatt wrote:
| Industry hasn't caught up yet with the iPad, because it's a very
| different tool.
|
| But you can see it start to happen. An iPad is becoming the
| default point of sale system in a lot of places. My wife works
| with autistic kids; he doesn't have a computer, he has an iPad so
| he can go from recording behavioral data to YouTube in a fluid
| motion.
|
| The iPad stumbled because it was supposed to be a consumer
| device, and then developers and users realized it filled a niche
| for a lot of creation tasks, and Apple has been playing catch-up
| ever since.
| 40acres wrote:
| iPad is an excellent consumption device, I never quite saw the
| appeal in productivity based add-ons. A few years ago my MBA died
| and I was quite slow in getting a replacement due to financial
| commitments. As a cord cutter w/o a TV my iPad was my main source
| of video entertainment and I was surprised that I didn't miss my
| Air as much as previously thought.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| _> Oh, and apps that aren't in the Dock can't become the second
| app in split screen mode. What sense does that limitation make?_
|
| I've heard people say this before, as if there's no way to use
| anything but your permanent dock apps in split screen. But if
| it's not in the Dock, you launch it, and now it's in the dock.
| That's why the recent items section on the right side exists.
|
| My personal gripe with iOS multitasking is that it's easy to make
| a second instance of an app by dragging and dropping (such as
| Safari tabs to split screen), but then it's not as easy to close
| the second copy when you're done with it. When split screen was a
| special implementation within Safari, dragging the last tab from
| one side to the other would automatically collapse that side and
| bring the remaining one back to full screen. Now it leaves an
| empty Safari window hanging around.
|
| If you want to close that, you have to make one side or the other
| full screen, open the app switcher, and swipe the empty one up
| off the top.
| bradleyankrom wrote:
| I've had an iPad for over a month now and still can't figure
| out how to close the second app when I am in split screen.
| ihuman wrote:
| Slide the border between apps to the left/right end of the
| screen
| wlesieutre wrote:
| You can't close it one at a time when it's in a split view
| pair, it only lets you close the whole pair together. If you
| just want to kill one of them, first you have to grab the
| middle divider and push it all the way to one side or the
| other to make either app full screen. The other app becomes
| backgrounded.
|
| Once they're separate, you can close them from the app
| switcher by swiping them off the top of the same, same as an
| iPhone.
| sixstringtheory wrote:
| I've used an iPad Pro 10.2" with smart keyboard for 2 years now,
| trying to shift all my non-iOS-development work to it, with some
| success. I like using the iPad, and I like using it with
| multitasking much more than I did before that existed. I think
| the criticisms in the article have some merit but I don't know
| what better alternatives would be, and didn't see any suggested
| in the article. I assume that Apple has worked very hard and
| thrown away a lot of less good solutions to arrive where they're
| at with iPadOS thus far.
|
| The answer to a lot of this should be "open the Tips app and
| follow the tutorials," but they don't cover the entire set of
| possibilities, so a valid criticism would be that the Tips app
| should be improved.
|
| A tip for people that might not know:
|
| > apps that aren't in the Dock can't become the second app in
| split screen mode.
|
| Not true: on an external keyboard you can execute the same key
| command you use for Spotlight in macOS: [?] + Space, then you can
| immediately type the name of the app you want, and drag it into
| multitasking from the results. As Gruber points out with the dual
| purpose gesture of dragging icons from the dock (either
| multitasking or removing from dock), there is one here too: if
| you swipe down in the center of the home screen to activate a
| search, you can't drag those icons into multitasking. It makes
| sense because there's no other app open to multitask with, but
| the gesture is overloaded nonetheless.
|
| A personal bummer lately is that my $150 smart keyboard stopped
| working, so I'm rocking a Magic Keyboard with it currently at my
| desk. The Bluetooth connection story isn't perfect, and I don't
| take it around with me, so when I'm mobile I just have the dead
| keyboard cover.
| mikehall314 wrote:
| I don't think I can substantively disagree with anything said
| here. Though I can think of a few places where iPad has
| revolutionised things; most notably point-of-sale. Especially for
| small businesses, I commonly see iPad and other tablet form
| factors used for retail point of sale.
| esch89 wrote:
| Good article. Shows the importance of being able to steer in a
| different direction + change despite past successes.
| lowkeyokay wrote:
| >By 1994 almost all graphic designers and illustrators were using
| computers for work.
|
| The iPad is a great device but, it isn't essential to anything or
| anyone. If tomorrow there where no iPads anymore, we would all
| just get on with our lives.
| tragic wrote:
| That's not quite true - iPads are a huge hit in electronic
| music for performance and production. Whether that counts as
| 'revolutionary' is another matter - there was the original
| Lemur which proved the multitouch MIDI use in principle - but
| it has created a new software niche market that genuinely is
| thriving and used for 'proper work'.
| yardie wrote:
| > The iPad is a great device but, it isn't essential to
| anything or anyone.
|
| This would only be said by someone who isn't a frontline worker
| no interacts with any. Unless you see the people who use
| tablets for work as not really working.
| mrweasel wrote:
| I would agree that the iPad isn't essential for home users,
| other than as a YouTube player for kids and a gaming device for
| old ladies.
|
| It does however seem to have found it's way into various trades
| as an information device. For instance is has replaced laptop
| as the primary device in elder care in many cities in Denmark.
| It makes perfect sense to use an iPad, it's more portable, the
| limited interface forces developer to think hard about what
| input is really required, and it faster to"unlock" than a
| laptop.
|
| The iPad has develop very quickly from a consumer device to an
| "Enterprise" solution. You basically only need it, if you can
| afford to have custom applications developed. For almost
| everyone else, there's the large screen iPhones.
|
| Apple isn't going to tell us, but it would be interesting to
| learn how many iPads are going to customers, and how many to
| companies and governments.
| bronco21016 wrote:
| If all of them disappeared into thin air one night then nearly
| the entire global aviation system would come to a screeching
| halt. It's the device of choice among air carriers for
| navigation charts. Paper backup isn't even carried anymore. We
| just carry extra iPads and batteries.
|
| I'm not sure any of the charting apps used by air carriers are
| even available on another OS at this point. I've never been
| aware of JeppFD Pro on Android and I believe they dumped
| Windows as well.
|
| There are other options of course but as far as I'm aware in
| the US it's all iPads and JeppFD Pro. The feds are familiar
| with it and a regulatory framework is created around it so it's
| the path of least resistance. And as a pilot, I'd say most of
| us are pretty satisfied with it.
| Shivetya wrote:
| not just pilots, I see them in use by nearly every service
| person who comes to the house and even at work. they are just
| the right size for easy reading, the lack of keyboard removes
| a major breaking point if not cleanliness issues. throw in
| they just give a modern and sleek vibe to any organization
| employing them versus pen and paper.
|
| plus they make it easy for customers to sign for services
| which in turn makes it easier for businesses to know that the
| work was done. toss in CC readers that attach easily and you
| have a simple POS device
|
| if anything the amount of waste that would come back into our
| lives without them would be staggering
| Someone wrote:
| _"throw in they just give a modern and sleek vibe to any
| organization employing them versus pen and paper"_
|
| There likely is a good cost saving there, removing the need
| to transcribe handwritten forms and archive them in cases
| where the customers signed them.
|
| It also easily gives you some tracking info, even if you
| only let it send location info when the service person uses
| it. That can give you the data to inform other customers on
| that service person's route about arrival times.
| alopex_plenus wrote:
| so the captain tells us to switch off all electronic devices
| and then proceeds to navigate the plane via iPad?
| bronco21016 wrote:
| The pilots' devices are selected to airplane mode as well.
| Many carriers do allow WiFi to be turned on and have a
| separate WiFi network onboard that allows for operational
| access. Mainly weather.
| iso1210 wrote:
| I haven't had a captain tell me to turn off electronic
| devices for years. The flight attendant asks me to remove
| headphones for the safety briefing, which is reasonable,
| and we're told to put it into airplane mode for
| takeoff/landing
| redler wrote:
| I accidentally left my iPad in the seat-back on a recent
| flight -- my case, it turns out, is a perfect match for
| Delta-leather-blue. Even though this is an iPad with
| cellular, I'd switched it to airplane mode and thus was
| unable to locate it with "Find My". After three days the
| airline hadn't found it, and I chalked it up to an
| expensive lesson learned.
|
| On day four, I received a push message (from Find My)
| that the iPad had come to life. An airport staffer had
| found it and charged it up. Presumably it cold boots with
| airplane mode switched off, so it connected to the
| cellular network, received the "lost device" command,
| displayed my contact info, etc. I received a call shortly
| thereafter.
|
| When I picked up the iPad at baggage services, I chatted
| with the staff a bit. They let me in on the "secret" that
| most airline employees never switch their devices into
| airplane mode anymore, and for this exact reason.
| audunw wrote:
| While it's good to avoid EM interference from electronic
| devices, I think the _real_ reason they want you to switch
| of these devices is to make sure you 're not totally
| distracted during take-off or landing, and that you're not
| using headphones, so you'll be aware in case of
| accidents/emergencies.
| jaywalk wrote:
| Nah, they haven't asked passengers to turn off devices in
| years. They just want them placed on airplane mode so
| they're not connecting to cellular networks. Bluetooth
| and WiFi are just fine.
| dewey wrote:
| They tell you to switch off the device's broadcast
| functionality ("airplane mode"). Something they don't need
| for navigating with an iPad as it's just offline maps /
| apps).
| darkerside wrote:
| Besides, what if they did? You think you need to use your
| device just because the pilot is?
| dewey wrote:
| > You think you need to use your device [...]
|
| No I don't, I just brought that up because OP was
| confused why the pilot can use their device while
| "normal" passengers can't.
| Aissen wrote:
| Why couldn't you put the app on an iPhone or iPod touch ? Or
| in a simulator on MAC ? It's not like the device is
| essential. It might be more practical for some purposes, but
| not essential.
| TrickyRick wrote:
| Because of the form factor. iPad is close in size to the
| papers used before. iPhone is way too small and a Mac is
| way too big and clumsy. Also a Mac has a clamshell design
| as opposed to being just a tablet that fits nicely in front
| of the pilot.
| robohoe wrote:
| No pilot will want to point and click using a trackpad.
| Finger is far quicker.
| spurgu wrote:
| Musicians would also be sad, the iPad seems to be the #1
| device to replace sheet music.
| AgloeDreams wrote:
| The iPad is also a massive choice for artists who used to buy
| wacom products. The ability to buy an iPad and pencil for
| under $500 and make stuff in pretty great software really
| changed the industry. To do something like that with a
| computer was a $1000+ market.
| davedx wrote:
| Also paramedics. Pretty sure the various militaries of the
| world use them extensively too.
| TomMarius wrote:
| That's not true. It's used as mapping and/or communications
| device in many trains and aircraft. Also many business
| representatives use it to do demos or just to keep the CRM
| updated. I am using it to sketch software architecture during
| meetings (on the projector).
| tonyedgecombe wrote:
| That's because it's a consumption device, despite the heroic
| efforts of some people to prove otherwise.
|
| If I want to reply to an email I'll walk upstairs to my real
| computer rather than attempt to do it on our iPad.
|
| As Joey Hess said[1] "If it doesn't have a keyboard, I feel
| that my thoughts are being forced out through a straw."
|
| [1] https://usesthis.com/interviews/joey.hess/
| adamsea wrote:
| The iPad Pro keyboard is pretty slick for what it is.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Pity it's missing esc and function keys.
| scarface74 wrote:
| If that were the case, do you think Microsoft and Adobe spent
| money on development of Office and Photoshop foolishly?
|
| The iPad Pros are credited with stopping the slide of iPad
| revenues - along with all of the accessories.
| jimbokun wrote:
| Not sure about Office, but iPad with Pencil seems popular
| with creative professionals, so for Adobe not to support it
| would open up opportunities to other software companies to
| Innovator's Dilemma them.
| mrweasel wrote:
| Honestly I think companies are (mostly) wasting their money
| porting desktop software to iPads. There's going to be
| niches where it makes perfect sense, but Office for the
| iPad is going to be a waste of money. Home users don't need
| it, business have laptops and desktop for those things, and
| Word is a poor note taking app of field work. To be fair I
| believe that the iPad is a poor note taking platform in
| general.
|
| For specialized software, tailored to specific fields, with
| only the interaction elements for particular jobs the iPad
| can be a much better fit than a laptop. Those jobs however
| aren't generic enough that off shelf software make a ton of
| sense.
| jeromegv wrote:
| Doesn't really matter what you personally think, what
| matters is what companies think, because they have the
| data to back it up. Is it a waste of money or not? Office
| for iPad came in 2014 and still being quite actively
| developed so I think we can conclude the opposite of what
| you are saying.
| readhn wrote:
| Many examples of companies out there wasting $$$$ money
| for years on dead end projects.
| scarface74 wrote:
| So you think you know better than Microsoft and Adobe?
| Have you thought that they may know their customer base
| better than you do?
| mrweasel wrote:
| Unless we can see the numbers we don't know if Microsoft
| profits from Office for the iPad. So I could be right for
| all you know.
| scarface74 wrote:
| Seeing that the only way that Microsoft makes money on
| Office for iPad is by selling O365 subscriptions -- same
| as Adobe with Creative Cloud -- having access anywhere is
| the value add.
| readhn wrote:
| Microsoft or Adobe can afford to make a billion dollar
| mistake.
| scarface74 wrote:
| Why would Microsoft keep developing a product for 7 years
| if there were no interest?
| oarsinsync wrote:
| The Zune was launched in 2006 and discontinued in 2012.
| Why did that product last 6 years?
|
| I'm not saying Office for iPad is pointless (I use it
| regularly, so quite the opposite!), but I do think it's
| foolish to think an organisation the size of Microsoft's
| doesn't necessarily do things for obvious reasons.
| Individual incentives do not always lend themselves to
| data driven objectives.
| scarface74 wrote:
| Apple created the iPod in nine months by cobbling
| together third party components. The Zune wasn't exactly
| a billion dollar investment.
| stock_toaster wrote:
| ipads have a non-insignificant footprint as point of sales
| systems these days too, so I wouldn't say ipads are _only_ a
| consumption device. They are also a pretty solid task
| specific unit for certain specific industries.
| rusk wrote:
| They make good head units too.
|
| I guess what OP was trying to say is that their application
| as creative tools (production vs consumption) is far more
| limited than the full fledged PC systems that we are used
| to.
| rorykoehler wrote:
| In my experience that has more to do with the artificial
| limitations devs put into ipad software. Take MPC drum
| machines for example. iMPC Pro 2 could replace all
| hardware MPCs if they wanted to but they would
| cannibalize their hardware if they did that so they made
| the ipad version a toy instead.
| lostgame wrote:
| In absolutely no way is this the case. The iPads screen
| will always be a toy compared to proper AKAI pads. It's
| not even velocity-sensitive.
| ghaff wrote:
| The main exception is drawing. It essentially replaces touch
| sensitive Wacoms.
| m4rtink wrote:
| This is unfortunatelly very true - Ipads have the best oen
| latency from mobile tablet devices & good software
| ecosystem (Procreate, etc.), likely thanks to overall more
| $$$ in iOS software development.
|
| There are Android tablets with precise pen support, but
| especually the cheaper ones don't have that good pen
| precision (jitter, lag) and also the available drawing
| software is not as advanced as on the iPad & powerful
| ossdesktop drawig tools such as Krita or Mypaint are not
| yet ported to Android.
|
| So in the end I basically had to get the top of the line
| Android tablet (Galaxy Tab S6) to get something comparable,
| where the manufacturer dumped so much mone so that some got
| also to the pen support & it would be working correctly.
| And so far so good. :)
| AgloeDreams wrote:
| I always felt the problem for android drawing tablets was
| that it was a three horse race and the anti-Apple was not
| Android here but the Surface.
| tomgp wrote:
| For illustration the iPad pro is my go-to production device.
| readhn wrote:
| agreed. graphic design - perfect niche for ipads.
| pier25 wrote:
| Illustration is not graphic design though.
|
| For graphic design (typography work, layout, UI, etc)
| mouse and keyboard are still the best input devices. Much
| faster and precise than tapping on a touch screen or
| using an Apple Pencil.
| iamacyborg wrote:
| The tattoo industry pretty much relies exclusively on iPad Pros
| and procreate. I'm sure there are plenty of other niche
| examples like this.
| radimm wrote:
| As a daily user of iPad Pro 11" it would be very difficult to
| adjust back. Sure, the device does not provide me the comfort
| of doing 100% of my tasks at all times.
|
| The combination of portability (form factor, battery life, LTE
| modem), with the growing support for the apps. I'm yet to see
| device that would replace it for me. I have had to take my MBP
| with me for quite some time.
|
| iPad essentially fuels my remote-first work style.
| irrational wrote:
| Now hang on, I use the ipad for creating artwork and it is much
| much better than any desktop/laptop computer with a wacom (or
| whatever brand) tablet.
|
| Also, they are tremendous for the elderly. My 97 year old
| grandmother really struggles with desktop/laptop computers, but
| has absolutely no trouble using her iPad. It's the main way she
| stays in touch with her family.
| altitudinous wrote:
| An article written by a technologist. Only 1% use multitasking.
|
| Software is absolutely the strength.
|
| The extraordinary social impact of iPad on education, bringing
| technology and books to the masses, especially the _non
| technical_ , education and entertainment to the young (who can
| use this device even before they can read), the elderly and most
| importantly the enablement of the disabled are the greatest
| achievements of the iPad. This is the device of the 2010's.
|
| Focussing on something like multitasking in the OS is really
| narrow and misses why this device even exists.
| wmeredith wrote:
| You should talk to some teachers about the iPads impact on
| education. Teachers hate the devices in their classrooms. It
| makes their job much harder.
| egypturnash wrote:
| God I hate the multitasking, all I ever did with it was
| accidentally open Safari links in a new window I couldn't get rid
| of instead of open them in a new tab when I mis-tapped. I turned
| that _right off_ about a day after updating.
| xixixao wrote:
| The article talks about two different things:
|
| 1) Whether the iPad is revolutionary, and how in this respect it
| compares to the iPhone and the Mac.
|
| 2) iPad's split-screen UX
|
| The two are not linked in a casual relationship imho. I
| personally never use split screen on my Mac (and of course on my
| iPhone), but this has not precluded it from being a device I use
| almost every waking hour.
|
| So to address the first point, the reason the iPad is not as
| revolutionary is because being in the middle of the two
| revolutionary products, it's shares the pros and cons of both, in
| a way that negates each other. So the iPad is not small enough to
| be truly portable, but not big enough to be the perfect work
| horse. It will never have the same success and impact on the
| world, no matter its UX.
| readhn wrote:
| Awkwardly turns 10? Poor title choice!
|
| Every household in USA has one ipad or wants to have one.
| (360million total sold in usa - so 1.1 ipad per person).
|
| 360,000,000 ipads x $400 (example average price) = $144B in sales
| !!!
|
| There is nothing Awkward about that. They crushed it!
|
| ongrats to Apple for making a great product for media consumers!
| zweep wrote:
| I remember discovering iPad split screen more than a year into
| owning one. It was like magic, then I didn't know what I had done
| to invoke it. I started trying random stuff looking for the
| incantations and eventually gave up and Googled it.
| tenant wrote:
| Nobody I know bothers with a tablet anymore. Everything they
| formerly did on the tablet they now do on their phone. And most
| of the iPhone users I know have now switched to Android, mostly
| Samsungs. Myself being a bit of a cheapskate have a motorola moto
| and I think it's great. Tim Cook is a very lucky man. He earns an
| eye watering salary, for what?
| bluedays wrote:
| Yeah, it's the opposite for me. I do nearly all of my computing
| on my iPad, and almost none on my phone. I also switched from
| Android (I was an early adopter, and originally bought the
| first G1 when it came out) to iPhone because the longer I used
| Android the more it felt hacked together.
| bnjms wrote:
| Lots of good discussion here about the state of iPad tablets.
|
| My SO is returning to school and wants a tablet for school. She
| likes her iPhone. Is the iPad ready to be a primary note taking
| solution? I have seen its note taking app used to great effect
| but how is external keyboard support? Does anyone use an ipad in
| uni as their primary input device?
| dlivingston wrote:
| It depends on what she's studying, IMHO. If there are domain
| specific apps (i.e., AutoCAD, Terminal, etc.) then the iPad is
| a non-starter.
|
| If she just needs to take notes, make PowerPoints, and write
| essays, then the iPad is great. The Apple Pencil (and keyboard
| case) is a virtual requirement, but I prefer it far above even
| traditional pen-and-paper notes.
| schwartzworld wrote:
| For this use case, why not a laptop? Any chromebook or
| inexpensive laptop would work fine for taking notes.
| bnjms wrote:
| I think mostly because she wants a touchscreen and already
| has an old laptop. Hand written notes are often easier since
| they seem to tap into the brain differently.
|
| And while her wants are primary, the chromebook system is
| awful. I could never encourage use of a chrome book for
| anything except something managed like a school.
| Causality1 wrote:
| I'm in love with the idea of the ipad/tablet but they just don't
| work for me in practice. Either I'm out and don't have anything
| on me but my phone or I'm at home and already have my computer in
| front of me. Ipads just don't work as replacement computers for
| me. I can't manage my media and document archives. I can't create
| bootable USB drives. I can't maintain a folder full of installers
| for necessary software. I just don't feel in control on a tablet.
| Maakuth wrote:
| > How would anyone ever figure out how to split-screen multitask
| on the iPad if they didn't already know how to do it?
|
| I actually recently got my first personal iOS (okay, iPadOS)
| device and this is how I feel about many of the UI features.
| Touching some side of the screen triggers this or that surprising
| feature and I'm struggling to undo what I did to get back to the
| business. Maybe what's needed is good old RTFM, but having heard
| how easy Apple device are to supposed to be to use, it's kind of
| unexpected that so much of this stuff is not that discoverable.
| rusk wrote:
| _> Touching some side of the screen triggers this or that
| surprising feature_
|
| Ah this brings back fond memories of Windows 8 :-)
| GordonS wrote:
| They even did this silly "corner thing" in the server
| edition, Windows Server 2012 - I remember the first time I
| RDP'd onto one, and had _no clue_ how to open the start menu
| (the Windows key didn 't work over RDP)!
|
| I had to google it, obviously whilst cursing profusely the
| whole time. Microsoft have a lot of UI/UX people - it boggles
| the mind that someone thought this was a good idea!
| asenna wrote:
| I legit had to google how to Shut down / Restart a Windows
| 8 machine back then! It's insane to think that tech people
| could not figure out the UI, imagine what the regular
| people had to go through.
| downtide wrote:
| Didn't Vista default to suspend when pressing the power
| button - in the menu?
| ken wrote:
| I had to open system Help to try to figure out how to log
| out of Windows NT 4 the first time I used it. We didn't
| even have Google.
|
| Helpfully, choosing Help crashed the system, which
| accomplished my goal.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| In Gnome-Shell, pointing to the top-left corner of the
| screen (labeled "Activities" on the system bar) will bring
| up their Windows-8-screen equivalent, and it's quite
| intuitive to use once you know the basics. It's slow as
| hell because Javascript, but other than that it works fine.
| And yes, you can tap or swipe from outside for pure touch
| access.
| JeremyNT wrote:
| The key distinction there is that there is a visual
| element that does still respond to taps/clicks, which
| means that eventually you try to click on it, overshoot
| to the corner, and discover that you don't need to click
| at all.
|
| Gnome shell does some of this stuff well, but try using
| it for real work on a tablet and you start needing those
| arbitrary gestures again. Need to invoke the on screen
| keyboard? View the app overview? You're going to be
| searching the web for those gestures, guaranteed.
| downtide wrote:
| Hot corners.
| perilunar wrote:
| There is a manual of sorts: Tips.app
|
| There's also an iPad User Guide you can download in the
| Books.app.
| Maakuth wrote:
| It's not a surprise to me that there's a manual and that it's
| even on the device :). But it seems like an iOS design
| pattern to keep this stuff hidden. I think it's okay for
| things that rarely happen by accident (multi-finger swipes or
| so), but touching (swiping?) over screen edges is something I
| seem to do often, so it becomes a problem. And I'm a geek in
| my early thirties, so it's not only a problem for the
| elderly!
| Nextgrid wrote:
| I miss the time when there was no "Tips.app" nor a need for
| such an app. Nearly every UI feature used to be discoverable
| and made sense. Those that didn't (like gestures to close
| apps on iPad) were gated by a toggle in Settings so that
| casual users who don't know/need it don't accidentally
| trigger it.
| jleach82 wrote:
| Last year I got an iPad, my first Apple device (I needed
| ForeFlight for flying, and it's only available for iPad). I
| downloaded a few manuals for ForeFlight, which apparently
| went to Books. I pulled one up in Books, spent a few minutes
| glancing and things, and spent the next 15 minutes trying to
| figure out how to get out of the current book back to my list
| of books. Finally took it to my wife (a long-time Apple fan),
| and it took her about 3 minutes of tapping and dragging
| various places. In the end, neither of us knew how we did it.
| davedx wrote:
| > struggling to undo what I did to get back to the business
|
| You'll love this one: to undo (don't think it works for
| everything, but it does for typing), shake your device rapidly
| from side to side.
| mortenjorck wrote:
| This was replaced in iOS 13 by a less comical, yet equally
| undiscoverable three-finger tap gesture.
|
| Considering that command-Z is not discoverable either, it's
| not too bad, especially as there are undo/redo/clipboard
| buttons on the keyboard in most cases.
| ashonalla wrote:
| >> Considering that command-Z is not discoverable
|
| Traditionally, the keyboard shortcut for undo has been
| listed next to undo on the edit menu. That's pretty
| discoverable...
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| And it's _brilliant_. Ever time you manually click edit -
| undo, you 'll see the shortcut. Maybe you don't even know
| what it means at first, but if you keep seeing it every
| day, you just might try hitting the sequence of keys at
| some point...
|
| The best UIs naturally help you progress from a basic
| user to an advanced user, without even noticing it. I'm
| not saying the traditional desktop UI paradigm is the
| best that can ever possibly be done, but it has had 30
| years of evolution at this point, and it's pretty darn
| strong.
| Yhippa wrote:
| Are you serious?
| jborichevskiy wrote:
| Yup, also Google Maps on iOS detects this as a "Send
| Feedback" command and shows a dialog for it. Slightly
| fitting, I suppose.
| zulln wrote:
| https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-
| guideline...
|
| > Many apps allow people to shake the device to undo and
| redo certain operations, such as typing or deleting. When
| initiated in this manner, an alert asks the user to confirm
| or cancel the undo or redo operation.
| geerlingguy wrote:
| There's a gesture for it now, too... but I have no idea what
| it is. Something like swiping three or four fingers down or
| across or diagonally. Definitely not discoverable.
| AgloeDreams wrote:
| Three fingers left and right, theres also a three finger
| pinch for cut and paste.
|
| uh...they all make more sense on an iPad than the phone
| though lol.
| oneeyedpigeon wrote:
| > having heard how easy Apple device are to supposed to be to
| use
|
| That was a rule for very good reason, and it will take some
| time to erode, but it's definitely not as true today as it once
| was. It's no consolation, but the first iPad - from the era of
| usable Apple design - was much better. Not in terms of power or
| weight, of course, but the OS didn't have all these weird
| mystery-meat controls, gestures, broken multi-windowing etc.
| irrational wrote:
| Is multi-windowing really broken? I've found it incredibly
| useful for taking notes in the right window while the
| book/article I am reading in in the left window. It seems to
| just work for me.
| falcolas wrote:
| It's changed. With the last iOS update, the gestures
| changed slightly - they used to start with a slide over
| that could be docked, and moved to a split and/or dock
| based on the position on the screen.
|
| Individual app's capabilities also vary based on whether
| they are windowed or not. For example, you can't airplay
| out of YouTube unless the app is full screen (even though
| once you've moved it to your Apple TV, you can switch away
| freely).
|
| Discoverability is also crap. You have to dig into the
| manual (which you have to "buy" for free) to get the full
| details of the feature.
| oneeyedpigeon wrote:
| I think it's 'broken' for anyone who doesn't use it
| regularly. It's too undiscoverable, and too easy to invoke
| accidentally, for the rest of us.
| sp332 wrote:
| Swiping is not discoverable, but no one noticed at first
| because the iPhone TV ad campaigns all showed how to use it.
| So most people who got an iPhone already had that bit of
| knowledge in their brains and thought it was intuitive.
| oneeyedpigeon wrote:
| Touch interfaces have an inherent disadvantage here --
| there's no equivalent of 'hovering' a 'cursor' over
| something to see if it changes visually, triggers a
| tooltip, etc. Their interfaces actually need _more_ help to
| be discoverable, not _less_.
|
| Swiping isn't even a great gesture for most uses. Earlier
| today, I had to delete maybe 50-100 downloaded podcasts
| from the Podcasts app (there is seemingly no way to do this
| en masse). The quickest way to do so is with repeated
| swipes, but it's almost impossible to be consistent with
| your swipes over 50-100 items: sometimes the swipes 'stop
| short', sometimes they just fail for no obvious reason. A
| swipe is also a LOT more physical effort than a tap -- if I
| could have just pressed a "DELETE" button 50 times, it
| would have been a lot more palatable (still short of a
| proper multi-delete, of course).
| scalio wrote:
| It drives me up the walls when some kind of list or
| collection touch UI doesn't offer any kind of batching,
| and most don't.
|
| Some kind of data-selection mode where I can drag across
| all the elements I want to select would be awesome.
| [deleted]
| Heliosmaster wrote:
| From the comments here, I think many people are missing a very
| important factor: while we (as technologists) focus on what WE
| think of the iPad, or what we can do with it to be productive,
| this is only part of the picture of the general population.
|
| In my opinion the iPad has had a tremendous impact within the
| general population and (combined with smartphones) got rid of the
| PC altogether for the average family. And tablets, especially for
| the elderly, are a true game-changer.
|
| My mother, not a technologist at all (she doesn't even have a
| cellphone) cannot live without her iPad. Granted that she could
| do everything with a smartphone, but the bigger screen of an iPad
| is particularly good for people who have a waning eyesight and,
| in general, might require a bit of a bigger UI (bigger buttons,
| etc.).
| toomuchApple wrote:
| I don't think I've seen an iPad used outside a restaurant
| payment system since they came out.
|
| And I think whoever owns that restaurant might not be that
| smart if you consider the competition.
|
| I like the idea of Microsoft's surface. But I haven't used one.
| Darkstryder wrote:
| I agree with this. My grandmother (who passed away in 2018 at
| the age of 91) tried to get into computers regularly for a
| decade, starting in the early 2000. We tried a lot of things,
| nothing stuck. Every device we would give her would quickly
| gather dust, unused after a few days.
|
| Then in 2013 she got an iPad 2 and she instantly started using
| it several hours a day for the next five years.
|
| In particular, I set it up so I could push new family
| photographs to her iPad remotely through iCloud. That was
| absolutely life-changing for her: now she was able to see super
| recent photos of all her children and grandchildren without
| having to beg for a printed version. That also worked for
| videos: for the first time since the VHS days she could replay
| family videos whenever she wanted.
|
| She also liked multiple card games and the iPad was a wonderful
| device to play them electronically. The biggest self-service I
| ever gave myself was to only suggest games that had a paying
| version without ads, and pay a few euros to buy them. The
| biggest problems with ads for her was that she could sometimes
| be a bit sloppy with the touchscreen : when an ad was present
| it would redirect her to a random website and she would get
| lost. The quality of the iPad touchscreen and that we stuck to
| ad-free apps allowed her to almost never get lost like this
| anymore.
|
| While the iPad may not have been a revolution for the general
| population, it definitely changed the world for my grandmother.
| For that I will be grateful for this device to exist.
|
| Miss you, grandma.
| k__ wrote:
| I don't know anyone with an iPad and only professionals who
| sometimes use an Android tablet for special cases (drawing,
| audio stuff)
|
| Most non-tech people I know simply have a Smartphone and that's
| it. Tablets in general still seem like a niche product to me.
| Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
| Fun thing is, it is very easy to do a convenient multitasking on
| iPad that a toddler would understand:
|
| Just make a multitask button in slide up menu or dock, which,
| when press, would present a user with his own home screen and an
| overlay titled "Select an app", maybe with slight clarification,
| "the launched app will be run next to your current app". Maybe
| not the best solution, but way better than the current one
| aj7 wrote:
| Multitasking? Huh?
|
| You're missing the iPad business model. You're not allowed to do
| anything (except maybe wash the dishes or get dressed) when the
| iPad is showing an ad that gets you free something.
|
| True multitasking would break the business model of thousands of
| sites.
| jonplackett wrote:
| How can this be when you can multitask on a computer anyway
| aj7 wrote:
| What does "on a computer" have to do with using an iPad. My
| computer is in another room.
| notlukesky wrote:
| The iPad is there for mass consumption as primarily a consumption
| tool (pun intended). Power users following the aptly named power
| law already know the tricks to use it as a production tool like
| split screen and multitasking etc... the masses will not invest
| the time to learn those tricks because they don't need it and
| their willful ignorance is bliss.
|
| The good thing that the article points out is that Apple's
| historical business model (4.99 price cap) limited productivity
| tools by capping the prices that could be charged through the app
| store. Fair point there. Apple can still breathe life going
| forward for developers by rebooting the developer ecosystem. 10
| years on the tablet has just arrived for productivity. That is
| still a fraction of iPad consumers. Prosumers are a minority and
| the only ones demanding landscape view and split screen apps.
|
| I work for an IAM consultancy and the password manager we
| recommend to our clients and that I use is SAASPASS and one of
| the reasons is that it supports multitasking, landscape view and
| split screen. Split screen is great for Authenticator codes and
| password management. But the masses probably don't care at all
| for these features. Although AutoFill has solved some of these UX
| issues with most apps and websites.
|
| If anyone is interested in an iPad friendly Authenticator and
| Password Manager see here:
|
| https://saaspass.com/
| SahAssar wrote:
| You posted the same comment and I asked you for a comment on
| your affiliation with saaspass here, but got no reply, any
| chance you will get to that?
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22173634
|
| It might be good to clear this up.
| pintxo wrote:
| As no one has brought it up yet. Playing civilization on the 12
| inch iPad Pro is awesome. Unfortunately it's a drain on the
| battery.
| brailsafe wrote:
| As far as I can tell, visual artists love the ipad pro. I still
| have my ipad 3, and it serves it's purpose for reading content
| and looking at stuff. I've done the same on an Ipad pro, and damn
| that screen is smooth, but can't think of anything to use it for
| that would remotely permit me to spend the $$$$$ on it. The
| software gets in my way and is just bad. Somewhat pathetically,
| Safari still doesn't support WebGl2 either. The cost approximates
| a pretty good gear setup for any other more constructive hobby.
| egdod wrote:
| My biggest annoyance with my iPad is accidentally opening links
| in a new Safari _window._ Sometimes that happens when I'm just
| scrolling and didn't mean to open the link at all. So now you
| have multiple Safari windows that are completely undiscoverable.
| To switch between windows, you have to swipe up slowly and pick
| the one you want.
|
| I have literally never wanted multiple windows of the same app on
| my iPad. But it keeps happening.
|
| I'm a computer guy. I shudder to think what this is like for my
| grandmother.
| xg15 wrote:
| (warning, rant follows)
|
| I wonder if the trend to confusing designs has something to do
| with the recent rise of "use case centered" UI design.
|
| My impression is that many graphical designs in the past were
| designed by coming up with certain fundamental abstractions or
| metaphors first and then integrating the different functions of
| the software into it: That way, we got windows and standard
| widgets which function the same way everywhere, no matter which
| particular application makes use of them. We also have
| abstractions like "files" or "desktop icons" that a user can
| interact with in a consistent way independent of application.
|
| This way of design has pitfalls: You can choose the wrong
| metaphors and paint yourself into a corner, you can overvalue
| consistency to the point the UI becomes cumbersome to use or you
| can find that a new feature doesn't fit into your abstractions
| and you have to shoehorn it in. However, what this design
| guarantees is that the user has some basic tools to orient
| themselves, without needing to consult a manual for everything or
| remember some random onboarding popup that appeared a week ago
| when the user had completely other things on their mind.
|
| I feel today, UI design has shifted away from common abstractions
| to the point it's almost seen as an anti-pattern. Instead, the
| design process is started with assembling an exhaustive list of
| "use cases" or "user stories": The app is supposed to enable the
| user to do the tasks on the list - and _only_ those tasks. Then,
| every item on the list is passed, one-by-one to the UI team, who
| add a button, gesture or other affordance to perform _exactly_
| that task. Finally, users are watched via telemetry to see if
| they are using the app as intended and if any additional tasks
| must be added via the above procedure.
|
| This method of design does have advantages: The most common tasks
| are easy to access, even if they are, by themselves, complex
| procedures involving different components (such as "make a photo,
| color-correct it, upload it to Twitter and refer to it in a
| tweet").
|
| On the other hand, everything that falls outside ymthe immediate
| attention of the developers becomes ridiculously hard to do or
| even impossible: Take the above photo, but _zip_ it, then send it
| in an email? Sorry, you need an app for that. Take a photo,
| color-correct it and send it to mastodon? Sorry, not integrated.
| Etc, etc.
|
| To be honest, I have no idea if modern UI design really is done
| like this, but it very often feels that way. I really wonder if a
| return to some well-dosed consistency wouldn't improve a whole
| lot of things both for casual _and_ power users.
| thefrog wrote:
| One of the biggest assholes in tech is right about something for
| once.
| Jemm wrote:
| My main gripe is that Apple chose to very aggressively kill or
| sleep apps running in the background.
|
| I can understand this from a battery perspective but why not give
| us an option to let certain apps run in the background,
| especially when the iPad is plugged in to power.
|
| As an example, if I start a download in Safari, I can't use a
| different app until Safari finishes the download. I could use
| split-screen but who wants to watch a video I split screen.
| wenc wrote:
| iPadOS 13 supports downloading in the background.
| fauigerzigerk wrote:
| _> if I start a download in Safari, I can't use a different app
| until Safari finishes the download._
|
| If true, that's surprising. I thought Safari initiates a
| background download.
| brandonhorst wrote:
| It's no longer true since iOS 13. Safari has a full-featured
| download manager now.
| dhruvmittal wrote:
| Related to backgrounding apps, I don't understand why if I
| split screen an app during a video chat, my video turns off.
| It's a little awkward if I'm trying to read an email during a
| Zoom call.
| eknkc wrote:
| I loved Android's notification model for these stuff. When I'm
| sharing a large video to WhatsApp on iOS, it shows a progress
| bar that needs to be on the screen.
|
| Android just fires a progress bar notification that stays in
| the notification center. It is fantastic.
| classified wrote:
| > mistakes that need to be scrapped and replaced, not polished
| and refined.
|
| Jobs' criticisms may have been a bit abrasive at times, but these
| kinds of problems seem to indicate that nobody is currently
| filling that important role at Apple.
| apexalpha wrote:
| This is excellent. My grandma (89) uses an iPad and iPhone. She
| can use both these devices exactly because of the simplicity
| mentioned in the article.
|
| 1. Open app by tapping it.
|
| 2. Close it by tapping the physical button. (rip)
|
| That's it. And that's why my grandma can use it. The first and
| only device she comfortably uses to this day.
|
| People in our (tech) communities tend to overestimate a users
| ability with technology.
| tsmarsh wrote:
| I work with people with multiple phds. They're smart.
| Technology focused professionals and they still have problems.
| Computer skill must be a parretto distribution. The difference
| between the top 1% and top 0.5%is enormous.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| I've found the very small bezel on newer iPads to be a problem
| for my parents in their 60s. Since I got them a new iPad they
| frequently will accidentally exit FaceTime while talking to
| them and then not know how to get back.
|
| The unintuitive multi-tasking is actually an advantage for
| them. It's hard to accidentally end up in that mode and they
| wouldn't have a need to ever use it. If it was easier to get
| into multi-tasking, they likely would only want to know how to
| stop it.
| irrational wrote:
| Same here. My grandmother is 97. She grew up as a shepherdess
| during the great depression, was a nurse during WWII, and then
| raised 6 children. She has no technical training, but she can
| use an iPad with no trouble while she always struggled using a
| desktop computer or laptop. iPads really are great for her use
| case.
| mort96 wrote:
| My experience is similar, but my grandmother has gotten worse
| at using her iPad as iOS has gotten more and more confusing.
| I usually see her with Safari in split-screen as Gruber
| mentioned, and know that: A) there's not really any way to
| teach her to get out of it because the gestures literally
| require more precise movements than her fingers are capable
| of, and B) there's no way to teach her to avoid open Safari
| in split-screen mode, because I constantly do it myself
| accidentally too on my iPad.
|
| The iPad used to be a really great device for her use case,
| but the more they add gestures which it's easy to
| accidentally trigger but hard (as in physically hard,
| requiring precise finger movements) to reverse, the worse it
| gets.
| slantyyz wrote:
| I'm kinda jealous of your experience.
|
| My dad (early 80s) struggles with tech in general, including
| the iPad and iPhone. Many in his peer group use touchscreen
| devices with fewer issues.
|
| This is what I noticed from trying to teach him how to use the
| interfaces:
|
| 1 - He refuses to mentally process what the icons represent and
| ignores the text label below them. I thought switching them to
| Chinese would help, but he'd struggle with some of the terms,
| as they were unfamiliar to him. For a person his age _and
| background_ , "address book" is more meaningful than
| "contacts".
|
| 2 - He wants to memorize locations and steps as opposed to
| using intuition via #1. This sometimes helped, but there would
| be occasional pitfalls, i.e., an unintentional gesture pulls
| him out of what he's doing and then he just doesn't doesn't
| know how to get back.
|
| I tried switching him to an old school feature phone (one of
| the newer Nokia remakes), but even that's a struggle, as
| there's simply too much UI, and I notice rocker buttons confuse
| the hell out of him. Many of these devices are marketed to
| seniors (and pretty much have the same interface and functions)
| but I don't think they were really tested with seniors.
|
| My dad doesn't have or use the Internet, and he's starting to
| get left behind as large companies are trying to move away from
| snail mail for things like bills, etc.
| ryandrake wrote:
| The "Address Book" vs. "Contacts" one is a good example. The
| one that hits some of the non-techies I know is "Drive". More
| than a handful of people I know still confuse it with Maps.
| They are going to _drive_ to the next town over, and want
| directions, so obviously they look for Google _Drive_.
|
| I'd guess 99% of the population associates the word "Drive"
| with cars and driving, and 1% associates it with "internal
| storage" yet what did we geeks decide?
| slantyyz wrote:
| While I get that designers hate skeuomorphism, I tend to
| think there are still significant benefits to it with
| seniors.
|
| With my dad in particular, if the icons were literally
| photos (as opposed to "graphically designed" icons) of real
| world objects he was familiar with, I think it would
| help... a little.
|
| He doesn't seem to process abstractions very well. For
| example, a shadowed head in a contacts icon has absolutely
| zero meaning for him.
|
| Even with non-touchscreen UI's, such as a media player, my
| dad doesn't quite grasp the concept of a highlighted item
| no matter how many times I try to explain it to him. It
| gets even more confusing for him if the highlight changes
| color in different parts of the UI.
|
| It would be nice if voice ui's were more advanced, but he
| speaks a dialect of Chinese that's much less common than
| Mandarin or Cantonese, so there's another issue.
| _red wrote:
| For the life of me, I can't understand how neither IOS
| nor Android offers some type of "Simple UI" setting.
|
| It should only consist of 4 Icons: Call, Email, Text, Web
|
| It is a crazily under-served market.
| downtide wrote:
| I have this odd contacts thing. Start there for calls and
| chats, or start with a call or chat then find the
| contact? Not so simple.
| slantyyz wrote:
| There are launchers for Android, but they don't work
| perfectly.
|
| For me, the only icons I would need is "Call", "Answer"
| and "Silent". Of course, that begs the question, why not
| use a "feature phone", but their UIs are muddled and
| overdesigned these days too.
| qmmmur wrote:
| Let me recount an experience I heard second hand of a
| researcher developing user interfaces for research tools. Keep
| in mind the target audiences are people with PhD's and who have
| to comb through lots of data in order to do their job. They
| struggled with _double click_ as a concept. How fast, not
| moving the mouse in-between clicks etc, etc. Some people are
| really virginial when it comes to anything other than doing
| things the slowest way possible on a computer.
| brianwawok wrote:
| I know people who have been web developers for a decade, that
| double click hyperlinks.
|
| If something works when you do it... you just get a habit of
| it.
| nickpeterson wrote:
| That's a great point. I think technical users underestimate
| how much of what they 'understand' is really intuition from
| years of struggling through computers.
| dlivingston wrote:
| Indeed. When I was in high school, I took a community college
| course called "Intro to Computers" or something like that.
|
| We spent an entire lecture on the concept of right-clicking,
| and several lectures on changing fonts and font sizes in
| Microsoft Word.
|
| It blew my mind that this was not innately intuitive,
| forgetting that I grew up with all of this and it's as second
| nature my generation as breathing.
| ksec wrote:
| I would have thought Double Click was something "Death would
| take care of it" [1] by now, so may be not.
|
| I remember twenty years ago teaching my parents double click,
| they then spend years on computer and they still cant
| understand it. They have 4 modes in their mental model, Left
| Click, Right Click, and Double Click on both Left and Right.
| They dont understand when to use which.
|
| A lot of nerds / geeks/ tech people to this day _still_ dont
| understand what makes the whole touch screen / iPhone UX so
| special. Scott Forstall said it [2] these people just dont
| get it. The single tap app opening may have been trivial for
| most of us, it was a world of difference to 95% of consumers.
| ( And that is why you should not put these people into
| consumer tech product design )
|
| [1] Something Steve Jobs said with regards to people dont
| know how to use a keyboard, but I cant find the video with
| Google. It was during an interview with Walt Mossberg.
|
| [2]https://youtu.be/IiuVggWNqSA?t=3102
| downtide wrote:
| Double clicking is dreadful. So horrible to learn.
| throw0101a wrote:
| > _I would have thought Double Click was something "Death
| would take care of it" [1] by now, so may be not._
|
| Wasn't this one of the reasons why Solitaire was included
| with Windows 3: to teach people about using a mouse?
| bathtub365 wrote:
| The article is partially about how bad the UX is on iPad.
| CivBase wrote:
| > Turns out, "just a big iPhone" was a fantastic idea for a new
| product - music to tens of millions of iPhone users' ears.
|
| Was it?
|
| I've never personally been interested in tablets, but my
| perception is that they're not especially popular. Over the last
| few years, I've rarely seen them being used for anything other
| than mobile video machines for little kids. A lot of people
| _bought_ the iPad, but very few people appear to regularly _use_
| one.
|
| I'm aware that the iPad extremely useful for some people. I'm
| just not convinced it's the breakout success this article paints
| it as. My personal experience and observations show that it is
| more of a niche product.
| DrScientist wrote:
| The software is important, but the real reason for the iPad's
| existence is the physical aspects.
|
| Form is function.
|
| Bigger than phone, touched orientated versus keyboard/mouse mac.
|
| That's also whythe physically 'panic' home button was very good.
|
| Personally the most interesting feature of the iPad these days is
| the pen - a way of physically interacting with the computer
| that's different.
|
| At the end of the day, the 'user interface' isn't just software
| it's physical. Whether it be touch, voice, pen, or keyboard.
|
| One of the problems with the more 'advanced' UI features/gestures
| is that they don't anchor in the physical - you have no idea it
| existed or why the software responded in that way.
| julienb_sea wrote:
| The core problem with ipad is it's not going to be able to
| compete with a laptop + desk setup for productivity. Laptops are
| complicated machines, and we take for granted the extent to which
| we are attuned to using a laptop. The speed with which we can fly
| around a laptop and get things done is staggering. Ipad has too
| many limitations in UX to really compete. You can in theory
| accomplish pretty much all the same things, and it might be more
| fun and more pleasant of an experience. But for complicated work,
| with a variety of applications, how can an ipad compete with 3
| large screens, a full keyboard and trackpad, and a full suite of
| consistent well supported hotkeys?
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| The solution is simple: ability to set in System Preferences
| whether to enable split screen and floating second window.
|
| Personally, I really like the split window support but to be
| honest I had to practice the gestures for opening and closing
| second windows.
|
| Off topic, but my big complaint about my iPad Pro is that the
| physical buttons for volume control, etc. are placed differently
| than my iPhone 11 Pro. This always makes me pause when switching
| devices because I like to think of my iPhone and iPad to sort-of
| be the same device as far as apps and most use cases. Apple,
| place the hardware controls in the same locations. Also, the menu
| bar on Safari is different on the two devices. I wish Apple would
| fix that also.
| moomin wrote:
| The volume thing annoys the heck out of me as well. I'm
| constantly having to stop and reason out which button does
| what. Never have to do that on my iPhone.
| hyperpallium wrote:
| An ipad/tablet is halfway between a laptop and a phpne, amd worse
| than either. For a while, phones got bigger (phablets), but any
| bigger and they don't fit a pocket, nor usable one-handed. The
| _convenience_ of a phone form-factor is overwhelming.
|
| Rhe next big thing going to be VR/AR/glasses, but have stalled.
| It might be foldable displays, but I think they'll suffer the
| same fate as tablets, for the same reasons. Convenience is kimg.
| clircle wrote:
| As a statistician, and collector of statistics textbooks, the
| iPad had made my life (marriage) much better! I can download all
| the books I want, and have a (typically) better reading
| experience on the iPad, and I don't need to expand the number of
| book shelves in my apartment. Big win for me!
| davedx wrote:
| The iPad could have been a new Dynabook. Alan Kay was actually
| fairly impressed with it when it came out. Unfortunately I agree
| with Gruber, it has really failed to live up to expectations.
| Missing a hardware keyboard is quite a big deal I think.
| chucky wrote:
| > Alan Kay was actually fairly impressed with it when it came
| out.
|
| I think you are misremembering. Every interview I can find
| points to Alan Kay being disappointed in the iPad. See this,
| for example: https://techland.time.com/2013/04/02/an-interview-
| with-compu...
| [deleted]
| simonh wrote:
| Oh grief no, an integrated hardware keyboard would kill
| everything that is great about the iPad. We have compact mobile
| devices with keyboards already, they're called laptops.
| pcurve wrote:
| part of the problem is, apple is refusing to make the basic
| window bar control needed to facilitate multi-tasking and
| exposing its funcionality, because that would create interface
| clutter and reduce perceived simplicity of the UI.
|
| Instead they're inventing all sorts of hidden gesture based
| workarounds.
|
| They're no longer targeting ipad for new users.
| jwr wrote:
| This is a very good take on the subject. I love the iPad, I use
| it all the time. It's an unbelievably good piece of hardware with
| a number of really good software applications. It is a
| surprisingly good thinking and note-taking tool, it's the best
| tool (period) for reading datasheets (or any large PDF
| documents), it is a great music workstation if you connect a MIDI
| keyboard and/or an external USB audio interface. But it is so
| sadly limited by the user interface and artificial restrictions
| that Apple places on the OS.
|
| The worst thing is that the forced over-simplification of the UI
| features did _not_ make it easier to use for beginners. I can see
| many people (including myself) struggling. So we have been forced
| into a "compromise" with all the downside, but none of the
| upside.
|
| Given how great the hardware is (really, I think this is under-
| appreciated), I really hope Apple can get out of that thinking
| rut.
|
| I also think that the slow iPad sales are directly connected to
| the mediocre OS software.
| 72deluxe wrote:
| I literally have no idea how any newbie will know how to use
| the iPad via the array of gestures to show the dock, go home,
| switch apps, move an app over another, move them side-by-side,
| know that you can use mutliple fingers on the keyboard to use
| it as a cursor pad.
|
| I used to think the meaningless icons with zero text or popup
| hints were bad (they are!) and the zero differentiation between
| a UI item and ordinary text (a button or link just looks like
| ordinary text, so you have to fumble around with the UI to
| guess what you can press; horrible flatness) was bad, but the
| inability to discover gestures other than behaving like a
| 2-year old with their first "feeling/textures" toy is the
| worst.
|
| It just isn't obvious.
| simonh wrote:
| So we need to add multitasking controls directly to the
| visible UI. That means they could be accidentally triggered
| much more easily, so we'd need to do that in a clear and
| obvious way that isn't confusing, doesn't lead to accidental
| triggering and is easy and obvious to get out of. Also they
| need to be unobtrusive and minimise the impact on the display
| of applications and content.
|
| Clearly having obscure gestures trigger functionality isn't
| ideal, but are the alternatives actually better, or even
| viable?
|
| I do agree with Gruber, the current gestures and behaviours
| are awkward. I can think of some alternatives that might
| help. One would be to run your primary app, then have a
| Control Center widget activate a multitasking layout, then it
| display the home screen as an overlay, so you can choose any
| app to go into the 'second slot' of the chosen layout. That
| may well come with negative tradeoffs, but at least the app
| selection/launch process would be familiar. There may be
| things that can be done.
|
| However there are no magic wands here. Getting rid of
| gestures sound great, but then what do you replace them with?
| amelius wrote:
| > it's the best tool (period) for reading datasheets (or any
| large PDF documents)
|
| Sounds intriguing. How would I go about copying the PDFs that
| are currently on my Linux PC onto it, though?
| eyesee wrote:
| The included "Files" app in iOS/iPadOS 13 can mount SMB
| shares.
| GarrisonPrime wrote:
| Pass them through an intermediary, such as Google Drive?
| wffurr wrote:
| Dropbox, Google Drive, iCloud, a USB cable, a USB drive...
|
| Classic solution is email it to yourself.
| jwr wrote:
| I use Readdle PDF Expert (or the free Documents), which syncs
| entire directories from Dropbox, both ways.
| acolumb wrote:
| I use Nextcloud[1], a self-hosted, platform-agnostic file
| sharing / personal cloud app. It's FOSS and is super easy to
| set up through Docker.
|
| Whatever file I put onto it is available on iOS, Android, a
| browser and WebDAV. It also supports camera upload.
|
| Germany recently switched to Nextcloud[2] to share data
| between agencies and as a privacy-respecting alternative to G
| Suite / MS.
|
| When I upload a .doc to the platform my iPhone can open it
| within the app. Same for PDFs.
|
| [1] https://nextcloud.com
|
| [2] https://nextcloud.com/blog/german-federal-administration-
| rel...
| coupdejarnac wrote:
| I love that all the proposed solutions here totally suck. If
| the iPad would just work as a USB flash drive, all these
| convoluted transfer methods wouldn't be necessary.
| acqq wrote:
| > The worst thing is that the forced over-simplification of the
| UI features did not make it easier to use for beginners.
|
| I believe Gruber argues completely the opposite: that the
| _recent changes to add features_ like split screen make it
| _more confusing_ (e.g. the example of his mother getting stuck
| in the split screen and calling him). He continues in the very
| article we comment here (emphasis mine):
|
| "if I could go _back to the pre-split-screen, pre-drag-and-drop
| interface_ I would. Which is to say, now that iPadOS has its
| own name, I wish I could install the iPhone's one-app-on-
| screen-at-a-time, no-drag-and-drop iOS on my iPad Pro. _I'd do
| it in a heartbeat and be much happier for it._ "
|
| And I think that should be a configurable accessibility option:
| to have UI completely discoverable and non-stuckable, even if
| some "so-called-Pro" features need more steps (or can't be
| implemented). Or even better and safer: that should be the
| default, with "advanced" shortcuts as an opt-in option.
|
| The interface should by default to never bring users to the
| point where they can remain "stuck" in some mode from which
| they can't get out.
|
| Steve Jobs understood that that 100% "discoverability" and "non
| stuckiness" must be the _default_ UI, that 's why Gruber would
| like to switch back to that older ideal.
|
| And Steve Jobs was old enough to learn that much earlier: that
| the "modes" are bad and that good UI doesn't require one to do
| some magic to switch between them, as it can be summarized in
| the joke: "How to Quit Vim and Exit the VI Editor -- the most
| popular Stack Overflow question -- and I'm using vi last two
| years because I can't figure out how to exit it."
|
| Even these "visual" UI changes that made the UI more "Ive-
| conform" (removing buttons and having only text) made the UI
| _more confusing_ for anybody not trained and retrained. The
| back "button" in the apps was drawn as a button when Jobs
| controlled the UI. Then it got to be switched to just the <
| sign, which those who don't frequently use the UI never
| understand to be anything more than a meaningless symbol on the
| screen.
| Phenix88be wrote:
| > And Steve Jobs was old enough to learn that much earlier:
| that the "modes" are bad and that good UI doesn't require one
| to do some magic to switch between them, as it can be
| summarized in the joke: "How to Quit Vim and Exit the VI
| Editor -- the most popular Stack Overflow question -- and I'm
| using vi last two years because I can't figure out how to
| exit it."
|
| The more a software do, the less it's user friendly... You
| can't really compare Vi, a text editor that need training to
| master by technician, and the IpadOS. They are not made for
| the same people.
| slipheen wrote:
| The File, Edit, etc menus on macOS are much more clear
| interface than most applications I've used on the iPad.
|
| macOS is undeniably more powerful - It's the truck versus
| the sports car in the analogy.
|
| But macOS is much much more straightforward and easy to
| use. I have far fewer things that I just have to memorize.
| majewsky wrote:
| I would argue that vi(m) is _more_ user-friendly by being
| more upfront about its learning curve.
| adamsea wrote:
| I think that is different from being "user friendly",
| where "user friendly" means "the UI for this application
| is as intuitive as we could make it do that a wide range
| of nontechnical users are able to comfortably use this
| application with a minimum of formal instruction."
| CarlRJ wrote:
| Vi(m) favors "easy to use" over "easy to learn" - which
| is the right tradeoff for a tool that one can use for
| hours a day for decades.
|
| Though I always liked the line, "Vi _is_ user-friendly -
| it's just picky about who its friends are".
|
| (BTW, "ZZ" is usually the right answer to
| quitting/exiting - still funny to see, decades on, people
| teaching ":wq<return>".)
| icebraining wrote:
| Not just Steve Jobs: the development of the Apple Newton
| (arguably the precursor to the iPad) was in part led by Larry
| "NO MODES" Tesler: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Tesler
| http://www.nomodes.com/
| akg_67 wrote:
| +1 I still haven't figured out how to get split screen
| reliably and every time. But I don't find a need for split
| screen either. A few times, I tried I had to google how to
| get split screen then I gave up. Also, sometime I
| automagically get split screen and can't figure out how to
| get rid of it. Usually land up just closing apps in split
| screen and restarting apps.
| lloeki wrote:
| Two extremely useful use cases of mine:
|
| - drawing in Procreate with reference material in the
| split.
|
| - learning a song by singing + playing it on the guitar
| with chords and lyrics displayed, with it playing in Music+
| at the same time (on repeat + seek readily accessible)++
|
| + I find it infuriating that no other music app than Music
| has considered split a possibility.
|
| ++ I'm aware there's a "Play" thing in Ultimate Guitar but
| it's absolute crap, playing a YouTube version that often
| doesn't match, obscures the sheet with a PIP, and is
| terrible to make repeat/seek. This is a _perfect_ use case
| of functional composability using split screen.
| zaphoyd wrote:
| I love and use split screen all the time on my iPad for a
| variety of use cases. Even though I love the feature and
| find it really useful all of the UI constraints related to
| it are totally true. I would never want the feature
| removed, but the existing UI for it is beyond maddening.
| rhodysurf wrote:
| I code in one terminal app and look at documentation on the
| second. I watch videos in the full screen and browse
| twitter using the slide in option. I love the multitasking
| tbh
| Brave-Steak wrote:
| I use my iPad Pro in splitscreen almost exclusively.
| Probably because I mainly use it for notetaking and
| research, instead of as just an entertainment device. That
| said, the usability of multitasking has for some reason
| become far worse on iPads since iOS 11 and I'm still
| waiting for them to do _anything_ to improve it. I still
| can 't believe it's in the state it is now, years later.
| bosie wrote:
| Is this the 13" or the 11" version you have?
| Brave-Steak wrote:
| 13"
| stillworks wrote:
| I think if you find a compelling use case for it, you will
| figure it out :-)
|
| I scan physical books to PDFs and read them as Quicklook
| from Files. Now, these books sometimes refer to other parts
| within the same book. So I almost always split the same
| book into 75:25 split. The smaller section section to move
| between the book/chapters, the larger section for focusing
| on.
|
| I find this almost TWMish way of windowing actually helps
| me focus better than on the full MacOS.
|
| Another use case. I write code on iPad(yes... I do), no..
| not production code but something I am trying to figure out
| or learn. I code it in Pythonista (I have read about PyTo
| but don't need it just yet). If Python won't cut it then I
| type it out in Buffer Editor. Now I maintain an index of my
| code snippets in Numbers sheets to keep track of stuff.
| This time 50:50 split between the two and it works.
|
| Most important use case, hand written notes. And with an
| App, searchable hand written notes.
|
| On the iPad Pro, recently I found out it's possible to hook
| up a RaspberryPI as well for some more heavy lifting (but I
| guess by that point I would just not bother and bring a
| laptop)
|
| And I have tried non Apple solution as well. A cheap Win 10
| tablet followed by Surface Pro 6. With the Surface Pro I
| wouldn't need the RaspberryPI. In theory, it is the most
| comprehensive mobile platform and should do all of the
| above I have mentioned. However, the overall experience
| with that form factor and the clunkyness of Win10 as a
| touch based or tablet based OS spoiled it for me. I
| returned the Surface Pro.
|
| Even with all it's limitations which I had to train myself
| to get around, iPad Pro is still the better mobile
| computing experience.
|
| I dream that some day Apple will make a Thinkpad Yoga type
| device which will be running a full MacOS but will support
| the Apple Pencil and touch screen. OR an alternative dream
| is for Surface Pro to become less clunky in use as a tablet
| device.
| thoughtsimple wrote:
| "if I could go back to the pre-split-screen, pre-drag-and-
| drop interface I would. Which is to say, now that iPadOS has
| its own name, I wish I could install the iPhone's one-app-on-
| screen-at-a-time, no-drag-and-drop iOS on my iPad Pro. I'd do
| it in a heartbeat and be much happier for it."
|
| Weirdly there is just a setting and it is strange that Gruber
| doesn't know about it.
|
| Settings->HomeScreen & Dock->Multitasking->Allow Multiple
| Apps
|
| "Drag applications from the Dock or Home screen to create
| Split View and Slide Over apps. Swipe from the right edge to
| reveal your last Slide Over app."
| js2 wrote:
| I like multiple apps except for in Safari, where I semi-
| regularly accidentally activate slide-over by dragging a
| link when I'm trying to scroll a page. Getting out of this
| mode is a pain in the ass, because AFAIK, you have to drag
| the slide over into split-screen mode before in order to
| close it.
|
| Anyway, in desperation I turned off multi-tasking, but it
| doesn't disable the drag-link-to-create-slide-over-
| behavior. Instead it becomes even worse because the dragged
| link replaces the previous window. Even worse, you can't
| click the Back button to get back where you were. Doubly-
| even-worse, Safari's history is and has been broken for a
| long time... not every link you've visited is in the
| history, titles don't match the page you were on, etc.
|
| Anyway, whatever the hell Apple did to Safari as part of
| iPad OS... I hate it.
|
| edit: I didn't realize there was a slide-over-switcher you
| can activate and then from there swipe-up to kill the
| slide-over you don't want. Still a PITA.
| https://www.imore.com/how-use-slide-over-and-split-view-
| ipad...
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| > The worst thing is that the forced over-simplification of the
| UI features did not make it easier to use for beginners. I can
| see many people (including myself) struggling. So we have been
| forced into a "compromise" with all the downside, but none of
| the upside.
|
| I wholly disagree, at least at the beginning. When the original
| iPad was released, I remember seeing multiple viral videos of
| two-year-olds being given iPads and instantly figuring out how
| to use them. At the time, this was surprising.
|
| I think we've forgotten just how simple iOS was in the Steve
| Jobs era. You had a grid of objects, and when you tapped an
| opbject, your device _became_ that object until you transformed
| it back with the home button. There was no control center, no
| notification center, and no app switcher--even when Apple added
| "multitasking" in iOS 4, it took the form of a little bar, not
| a new view.
|
| I'm not ready to say Apple should get rid of Notification
| Center, because it's pretty darn useful. But I _would_ like a
| single kill switch in Settings which turns all these features
| off. Then I could enable it for my grandmother.
|
| The iPad, for its part, should be _simpler_ than the iPhone,
| because simplicity is the iPad 's reason for existence. Laptops
| exist because they are (and continue to be) the most efficient
| way to get things done. The iPhone exists because it's a
| _relatively_ capable device that fits in your pocket.
|
| And the iPad exists so you can browse the web and watch Netflix
| in a focused and leisurely way. iPads also make these tasks
| accessible for people who are not familiar with computing and
| will be more comfortable a simpler environment.
|
| By attempting to make the iPad as capable as a laptop, Apple is
| taking away the iPad's very real original use-case in service
| of a use-cases for which the iPad is inherently ill-suited. And
| for what? To compete with a class of product which Apple
| already makes?
|
| 2010 iPads were great at what they did, and 2010 Macs were
| great at what they did. I legitimately don't understand why
| 2020 Apple is now on a mission to conflate these two product
| lines. Even if Apple succeeds at making the iPad as capable as
| a Mac, what will all their work have accomplished?
| Balanceinfinity wrote:
| I have to disagree - the ipad shouldn't be simpler than the
| iPhone - it should be binary: simpler for the grandparents,
| powerful enough to compete against a surface. When I travel,
| I'm only taking 1 big screen. The ipad should replace my
| laptop for trips where I don't have to work a bunch.
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| > simpler for the grandparents, powerful enough to compete
| against a surface.
|
| The UI of a 2010 iPad _could_ replace your laptop on trips.
| If you just need a device to occasionally keep tabs on
| email and review photos and bring up websites, the iPad has
| _always_ been great for that.
|
| If you need to do anything more intense, the one device you
| bring really should be a laptop, especially as we become
| able to engineer laptops that are increasingly small and
| light.
|
| I don't think it's possible to develop a UI that is both as
| capable as a traditional computer and as simple and
| intuitive as early versions of iOS. The more actions you
| add, the harder any action is to discover.
| Balanceinfinity wrote:
| The surface comes pretty close.
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| The surface is just a "standard" computer in a different
| form factor. It has both the utility of a standard
| computer and the complexity that comes with it.
|
| I would _love_ an OS X tablet, and I 'm looking into
| making a Hackintosh one (it can be done). But it's not
| going to be an iPad, just like an iPad in a laptop case
| isn't a laptop.
| ashonalla wrote:
| >> people who are not familiar with computing
|
| It's pretty amusing that IOS and Android are likely the
| reason that it's the year 2020 and "people who are not
| familiar with computing" still exist.
| have_faith wrote:
| I think a big part of the mediocre sales is related to the use-
| cases that most iPad users have which seems to mostly be
| watching videos, browsing the internet, reading etc. Any 2 or 3
| generation old iPad will do this fine with very little reason
| to upgrade. It doesn't have anything near comparable to the
| upgrade path that a lot of phone users who seem very eager to
| upgrade to a better camera/battery/etc.
| jeromegv wrote:
| The iPad is a 20 BILLION dollar a year business. Let's not
| get crazy on "mediocre" sales, this is one of the most
| popular product line of all companies combined. Did not get
| as high as some people were expecting but this is far from
| mediocre.
|
| Source: https://sixcolors.com/post/2020/01/fun-with-charts-a-
| decade-...
| JackFr wrote:
| > Let's not get crazy on "mediocre" sales
|
| If I've got a product whose sales were falling 5 out of the
| past 6 years, and whose current sales are 30%+ down from a
| peak of 6 years ago, I'm pretty worried about it.
| kbutler wrote:
| Is growth required for success?
|
| I expect the iPad, lacking any new revolutionary
| functionality, to reach a steady state of (new customer +
| replacement rate) sales that is some percentage of its
| peak, pre-saturation sales. If replacement rate is every
| 4-5 years, this may be below 30% of peak.
|
| This won't mean it isn't successful, just recognizing
| that existing users don't need to upgrade every year.
| scalio wrote:
| Thank you. We need to stop thinking of growth as a
| reasonable metric for wellbeing or relevance of products.
| When a new product is introduced, certainly, looking how
| the market reacts is interesting. But many years down the
| line, things _should_ stabilise. Does your (metaphorical)
| baker round the corner grow yoy? And yet, somehow their
| bread is still good, and they have no problem surviving,
| except when a company with far too much capital just
| bulldozes in, for example by selling under local market
| prices.
|
| /rant over
| chungus_khan wrote:
| Growth is what the shareholders care about, and capital
| always rules, even at the expense of anything else.
| have_faith wrote:
| Of course, you can only call it mediocre when comparing to
| the standout product lines. On it's own it's still a
| successful product. People have such high expectations for
| every one of their lines that some merely succeeding
| quietly is questioned. Says a lot about their success as a
| business.
| [deleted]
| thrower123 wrote:
| For doing this sort of thing, most people can get by with a
| Kindle Fire, which are constantly on sale for $30-40. They
| are not anywhere near as good as an iPad, but for pure
| consumption they are more than adequate.
| devxpy wrote:
| Exactly. If it were not for the OS, the hardware seems to be
| a lot more capable than casual entertainment. These use cases
| simply don't push the hardware to its limits.
| arethuza wrote:
| My iPad must be 4 or 5 years old and seems perfectly
| capable of pretty much everything I use it for (videos from
| various sources), lightweight web browsing, looking at
| pictures, browsing Ordnance Survey maps...
|
| Only reason I would upgrade is if I break it (unlikely as I
| don't take it outside very often) or when iOS upgrades stop
| (which is what happened to two previous iPads I have in a
| drawer somewhere).
| mtgx wrote:
| He meant UX and feature-wise capable, not hardware-wise.
|
| He's right, if the OS itself was more advanced, than even
| if the same people who own iPads now wouldn't be
| interested in using those features other than their
| regular media consumption, it would still open up a new
| market for the iPad (new target audience). But with its
| current limitations, it can't do that.
| tomgp wrote:
| Spot on. I've been using an iPad Pro for 3 years now I use it
| every day and I love it but I still can't reliably get two apps
| to sit side-by side on the screen.
| dceddia wrote:
| I just got an iPad Pro and I agree this gesture is awkward.
| Plus, some apps seem to not support it at all, so it'll
| silently fail when one of those apps is on either side.
| ghaff wrote:
| Maybe if I used the feature more. But the only time I use it
| is with a somewhat older large iPad that I sometimes use for
| drawing but which mostly sits in my kitchen to display
| recipes. I can never remember the right incantations when I
| try to do the split screen thing. And don't even try on the
| smaller iPad I use day to day.
| tuananh wrote:
| ipad pro is such a nice device but the iPadOS is still so
| limited.
|
| if ipadOS is 50% capable as macOS, the ipad pro would be a dream
| machine for web developer.
| ibn_khaldun wrote:
| The main gripe of this article seems to be focused on a single
| issue. But it is a valid point. But it is sort of strange to see
| this article boil down to the author's displeasure with just this
| one issue. To be honest I never was aware that you could only
| pull apps from your dock into split screen because I really only
| use those apps for that function. There is a comment buried
| toward the bottom that suggests a very nice solution to the
| problem.
|
| There is also another comment buried toward the bottom
| questioning why everything has to be "revolutionary", which I
| agree with. I find that the iPad is a cozy fit for most people's
| personal and professional workflows and the fact that it's Apple
| keeps everything cohesive. What revolution is it supposed to
| spark? It is a companion, a bridge, so to speak, between two
| pieces of equipment that the author has already acknowledges as
| "revolutionary" on their own.
| masklinn wrote:
| It seems more a pointed and emblematic example of the
| overarching point.
|
| There is no cause to spend thousands of words covering dozens
| of issues when a single one suffices to clarify the thesis.
| oneeyedpigeon wrote:
| I agree that the iPad doesn't have to be revolutionary. I agree
| with the author that hardware-wise, it just about is, but
| software-wise it falls short.
|
| The article may be mainly about one issue, but it's an
| important one. Apple has made a horrible mess of multitasking
| on the iPad, which not only causes frustration with that
| product, but also should make us wary about the future.
|
| I personally never (literally never) want multi-windowing on my
| iPad: it's only an iPad-mini, so multi-windowing isn't very
| practical anyway. All I need is a single toggle to turn it off,
| and any gripes essentially disappear. But I have to have it,
| even though I actively don't want it. So I have to,
| periodically, work out how to exit multi-windowed mode, because
| it's very easy to accidentally enter it. And exiting it is NOT
| easy - pretty sure one time I just gave up, put the iPad down,
| and did something else instead, I was that frustrated.
| Terretta wrote:
| And, he's wrong:
|
| > _I like my iPad very much, and use it almost every day. But
| if I could go back to the pre-split-screen, pre-drag-and-drop
| interface I would. Which is to say, now that iPadOS has its own
| name, I wish I could install the iPhone's one-app-on-screen-at-
| a-time, no-drag-and-drop iOS on my iPad Pro. I'd do it in a
| heartbeat and be much happier for it._
|
| Apple Multitasking Support page:
|
| https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207582
|
| Last section:
|
| _To turn Multitasking features on or off, go to Settings >
| Home Screen & Dock > Multitasking, then you can do the
| following:_
|
| _- Allow Multiple Apps: Turn off if you don 't want to use
| Slide Over or Split View._
| MengerSponge wrote:
| I can't believe I'm the first to metion LiquidText! It's the
| reason I bought an iPad pro, and more than a year later I don't
| regret it.
|
| If you have to collect information from a bunch of disparate
| documents, make comments, and share your collected thoughts,
| LiquidText is the absolute best.
|
| https://apps.apple.com/us/app/liquidtext/id922765270
| theshrike79 wrote:
| I managed to snag an iPad Pro (pre USB-C model) last summer and
| bought the official Apple keyboard for it.
|
| I've been using my MBP less and less ever since. I can cover a
| good deal of my normal "laptop" activities with the iPad.
|
| - I can put the latest CW DC Superhero show I'm hate-watching on
| from Plex in picture-in-picture and browse Reddit or Hacker News
| at the same time - I can use Newsblur to check my RSS feeds,
| Telegram/Discord/IRCCloud to chat - The battery lasts me all day,
| from morning to night - I can even use Blink.sh to log in via
| ssh/mosh to any server to tune some template or adjust script
| settings
|
| The only time I actually pick up my MBP is when I need to do some
| Serious Coding with a Big Display (or two).
|
| Even my commutes are more enjoyable with synced Plex media and
| Netflix downloads, beats looking at a 5" phone screen.
| ArmandGrillet wrote:
| I always wonder if ipadOS should have a permanent dock or not, it
| would reduce the screen space but makes split-view much more
| discoverable.
| oflannabhra wrote:
| Gruber has some good points, but I think in some ways he misses
| the forest for the trees.
|
| The iPad is essentially, at this point, a two-mode device. There
| is the simple paradigm, screen-as-app mode inherited from the
| iPhone. Then, for power users, there is the multitasking paradigm
| with Flyover, Split Screen, Drag & Drop.
|
| The multitasking paradigm is _not_ meant to co-exist with the
| simple one, and it is not meant to be discoverable. I agree with
| Gruber that there is work to do here to make it better, but iPad
| _can 't_ drop the simple paradigm, because many people use it
| that way. So anything more that the iPad offers has to build on
| top of and integrate with that paradigm.
|
| That is really a huge challenge. It's not often that challenges
| like that come along. In desktop computing, lots of things are
| un-intuitive or at least not intuitively discoverable, such as
| right-clicking for context menus or keyboard shortcuts. We all
| don't consider them that way because we are so used to them, and
| we almost never meet someone who hasn't ever had to interact with
| them the first time.
|
| I'd also argue that the simple paradigm iPhone and iPad offer has
| made computing more approachable to great swaths of people (not
| even considering things like cost, etc).
|
| Yes, iPad multitasking is not perfect. But I think they are at
| least on the right track, and I am thankful they have protected
| that approachability.
| gnicholas wrote:
| > _The iPads Pro outperform MacBooks computationally._
|
| Off-topic, but it's an interesting choice to pluralize "iPads
| Pro", especially in a sentence where it could easily be singular
| ("The iPad Pro outperforms MacBooks computationally"). After all,
| there aren't different tech specs on the different iPads Pro (of
| the same generation). They just differ in screen size, IIRC.
| toasterlovin wrote:
| Being fussy about pluralization and other assorted grammatical
| issues is something Gruber is known for to his fans. He
| famously (if you're deep in the Apple blog/podcast world) made
| a point of referring to the new Pro AirPods as AirPods Pro,
| which follows Apple marketing, but sounds completely ridiculous
| when spoken aloud.
| CiaranMcNulty wrote:
| Wouldn't it be strange to compare 'iPad' to 'MacBooks'?
| gnicholas wrote:
| That's not what I suggested. There is one processor and RAM
| setup across all (current model) iPads Pro. There are
| multiple processors and RAM configurations on the various
| MacBooks Pro (ugh, that sounds terrible to me -- I much
| prefer MacBook Pros). So if the iPad Pro processor (or
| whatever metric he was referring to) is faster than all the
| MacBook Pro processors, then it would be perfectly normal to
| say the one singular is faster than the other plural.
|
| It would be like saying the iPhone 11 Pro has a better camera
| than all the iMacs (which vary by model, but none are as good
| as the iPhone).
| bsaul wrote:
| ipad + youtube ( or twitch) has replaced TV for many people, and
| ipad is definitely a game changer in some niche professional
| markets where autonomy and keyboardless makes it a true
| alternative to paper (any people taking notes while standing).
|
| i think the most lacking features are related to pencil
| interactions ( which still can't be used to enter text in iOS
| text fields easily), but i feel it's really slowly getting there
| jannes wrote:
| Hilariously the pencil can't even be used to switch apps. You
| need to swipe from the bottom with a finger for that.
| threatofrain wrote:
| > The iPad was a new class of device, sitting between a phone and
| a laptop. To succeed, it needed not only to be better at some
| things than either a phone or laptop, it needed to be much
| better. It was and is.
|
| For me the problem of the iPad is that it's merely inconsistently
| better at a slew of entertainment/consumption based activities
| but for everything else it's worse than any decent laptop. As
| even consumption-based workflows may involve intermediate bursts
| of typing, and just to extend the iPad's range into more uses I
| am tempted to have a keyboard -- but then it almost nears the
| inconvenience of carrying a laptop.
|
| IMO to be revolutionary the iPad should convince you not to buy a
| laptop, or it should be as light as the kindle so that you would
| consider reading it Star Trek style for 20-30 minutes per day, as
| even the iPad mini is a bit weighty. Right now with the focus on
| iPad Pro and Air I think Apple is going toward the former.
| crooked-v wrote:
| > IMO to be revolutionary the iPad should convince you not to
| buy a laptop
|
| The key thing sitting in the way of that for me, at least for
| the most part, is the lack of true background multitasking. I
| understand the need to avoid the battery problems of the
| Android ecosystem, but there needs to be some way to take an
| app and say 'yes, I really want to let this sit active
| indefinitely until I intentionally quit it'.
|
| For a simple example, consider an IRC client: it's useless if
| it drops the connection every time you turn off the screen or
| switch to another app for too long.
| cesarb wrote:
| > For a simple example, consider an IRC client: it's useless
| if it drops the connection every time you turn off the screen
| or switch to another app for too long.
|
| I believe the "correct" way to do it would be to have a
| server in the middle, which keeps the connection alive,
| buffers the necessary data, and sends a notification to the
| device when appropriate. That is, unlike a desktop or a
| laptop, a tablet or smartphone is not designed to be a fully
| independent device.
| crooked-v wrote:
| ...and that's the problem.
|
| To be less pithy, 'just have a server in the middle' is
| completely impractical for some things, because that
| doesn't always exist.
| gdubs wrote:
| Can't believe it's been 10 years. The iPad launched my app
| development career. My girlfriend at the time (now my wife)
| bought the first generation iPad for me so that I could finish
| developing an app. I felt that I had missed the wave with iPhone
| apps, and the iPad was a new opportunity. The result was
| Polychord.
|
| From day 1, the iPad was a great format for music making. But
| it's fun to look back and remember that back then it didn't have
| MIDI, and Audiobus would be some time to follow.
| Fiahil wrote:
| I completely agree with this article. The iPad hardware is
| absolutely wonderful, it's light, gorgeous and powerful. I got
| the latest iPad pro to watch Netflix in bed and it fills that
| purpose completely.
|
| However, the OS running on the machine is bad. Very bad. The
| multitasking is horrifying. The Files app is unusable (especially
| if you want to access your files from an FTP server). You have to
| use your finger to select a textbox on the screen before you can
| use your physical keyboard. Copy/Paste between apps is a
| nightmare (mostly because of the really poor multitasking).
| Sharing your screen via Airplay is useless except for demoes
| (doesn't match the target monitor resolution, nor transform the
| iPad into a giant touchpad). It doesn't support multiple
| icloud/gmail accounts (if you want to share it with your SO). I
| can use a terminal and SSH to my raspberry pi, but I can't use
| git, bash, node, python, go or rust on it...
|
| Just let met install MacOs instead, it can't be worse.
|
| PS: even having a console-only ubuntu VM would make me happy at
| this point.
| jseliger wrote:
| I don't think HN is the target audience for the iPad. I have
| one and use it as a reading device.
|
| Others use it for games and social media, where the many
| accurate deficiencies you point out don't matter much. The
| average person seems to use it within a narrow sandbox where it
| works. The minute you try to do something else with it, you'll
| struggle and be disappointed.
| JauntTrooper wrote:
| It's the device of choice for most public company directors
| and senior executives I meet. I know of a few companies that
| issued them to their directors for board use. Senior
| investment bankers also use them extensively while traveling.
|
| It's the corporate lawyers and junior investment bankers that
| rely more on laptops (mostly for Word, PowerPoint and Excel).
| ngcc_hk wrote:
| The file system if you use it is a god sent. You can share
| files, organised files ... not as good as lap top one but it is
| good enough especially if you have an macbook to arrange and
| tag files.
| streb-lo wrote:
| Why on earth should I need a separate device to organize the
| files on my device?
| radnor wrote:
| You don't _need_ to, but doing so with a virtual on-screen
| keyboard is annoying and slow compared to using a separate
| laptop.
| derefr wrote:
| Or, y'know, we're talking about the iPad Pro here, so use
| the keyboard cover. (Are there people buying an iPad Pro
| who don't buy the keyboard cover? Seems silly to me.)
| scalio wrote:
| And there's the problem.
| brailsafe wrote:
| How much Netflix are you watching!?
| snapetom wrote:
| I feel that Apple has lost its way with OS design in the past 5
| years or so. Not at a macro level, but at a micro, "little
| things" level. Launch anything Apple-written these days and
| you'll get a wizard telling you how to use some new widget -
| just like any other software by anyone else. I don't think
| Apple has ever done that before because features were designed
| so well, you can easily figure it out.
|
| Then there are just tons of small decisions that are head
| scratchers. In iOS 13, they changed when Select/Select All
| appear, and it's a real pain in the ass. Early versions of iOS
| didn't have Select/Copy/Paste because the general belief was
| that they had to get it right the first time. They nailed it,
| but now they've tweaked it and made it much harder to use.
| munk-a wrote:
| I agree with this - I feel like Windows has gotten much
| better at catering to delivering (or allowing other people to
| deliver) more targeted UX improvements. Once upon a time
| Fences was a requirement to be alive - now instant searching
| in the start menu means I hardly ever see my desktop -
| similarly universal key combinations (and global key capture)
| have let things like media keys really take off - being able
| to pause a video that skipped to the next entry in the
| playlist without ever backing out of a different fullscreen
| app is kinda beautiful.
|
| Heck, I've got, and regularly use, an iPad and had no idea
| you could go into split screen mode - the UX is entirely
| invisible and un-intuitive - especially if you pick up
| something running older iOS and need to remember how to pull
| up the carousel.
| FreakyT wrote:
| My single biggest problem on the iPad is the way Safari just
| randomly kills your background tabs. Filling out a web form?
| You'd better hope that their half-baked tab state saving
| worked! (Spoiler alert: it probably didn't)
|
| It's particularly annoying because of the headline features of
| iPadOS was that you could finally use Google Docs in Safari!
| It's actually amazing how well it works...until you switch tabs
| or apps and have to wait for your entire spreadsheet to reload.
| sillysaurusx wrote:
| Whoa, they do this on iPad? Is that a new iOS thing?
|
| I have 500 tabs in Safari on my iPhone. It's a nice time
| capsule of what I used to be reading. (500 is the cutoff
| limit, apparently.)
| austinhutch wrote:
| The tab won't go away, but it will trigger a fresh http
| request (and thus any input in a form will disappear), I
| believe the behavior is the same on iOS for iPhone.
| ljm wrote:
| It's identical and it's aggressive. It's more forgivable
| on the iPhone but I don't reckon so on an iPad Pro.
|
| Oftentimes I've been underground and I'd go back into
| Safari to read a page I already had open, but it triggers
| a new request with no internet connection and then blows
| up.
|
| I would hope that at least the last open tab would be
| held in memory or otherwise heavily cached when the
| signal degraded enough to prevent a reload.
| jandrese wrote:
| Yep, and it's really frustrating when the tab was just a
| static webpage with some text you want to read. It has
| the iOS baked-in assumption that you always always have
| fast Internet access.
| zaphoyd wrote:
| The parent likely means background killed in the sense that
| iOS fairly aggressively removes loaded web pages from
| memory and replaces them with a screenshot and a url. Most
| of your 500 tabs are likely screenshots and urls. When you
| select them they fetch the page from the server fresh.
|
| In most cases this is fine and frees up memory for other
| apps/tabs, but with web apps with local state, said state
| gets clobbered in a way that never happens on a desktop
| browser. Because it is fully automatic you can never really
| tell or trust that local application state will still exist
| if you tab away and back.
| simonh wrote:
| All of those are either kind of 'eh', or have decent
| workarounds, or aren't even valid at all. There are plenty of
| ftp client and server apps that work absolutely fine, I don't
| even know what your talking about on that front.
|
| Please don't add a mouse cursor to iOS, No!
|
| I find the new cut n paste stuff outstanding. There are a range
| of decent screen sharing, presentation and touchpad apps.
| There's a decent free Gmail app that supports multiple
| accounts.
|
| Can't use Python? Good grief, where have you been hiding all
| these years? Pythonista is a fantastic Python dev environment
| on iOS, with several apps and games published using it, and
| there are a bunch of other dev apps for other languages, plus
| Working Copy for git and github integration.
|
| The iPad doesn't do everything, sure, but it's way beyond being
| a basic consumer device. In particular Pythonista, with its
| built in GUI designer, support for games development, community
| shell extensions and tools make it an incredible powerhouse
| device.
| derefr wrote:
| > Please don't add a mouse cursor to iOS, No!
|
| It has one! https://www.macworld.com/article/3405887/how-to-
| use-a-mouse-...
| gregjor wrote:
| Working Copy and CodeHub handle git repos. I code from an iPad
| Pro sometimes with Blink (mosh/ssh client) and Working Copy
| with Textastic.
|
| I sympathize about not running local dev environments, but for
| the actual work I do the apps won't run on a laptop or local PC
| anyway without a lot of trouble, so I'm used to working over
| ssh to a dev server. That works very well on an iPad, even
| better with a decent keyboard with an escape key.
|
| As someone else mentioned Pythonista gives you local Python.
|
| I work on multiple large web applications for a few clients and
| I've tried using my iPad Pro exclusively. I've only run into
| two issues that make it less than ideal: No web inspector/JS
| debugged in Safari (though workarounds exist they're clunky),
| and difficult text selection (not an issue in a terminal window
| with vim but imprecise and fussy in iOS apps). Otherwise it's
| great and I do use my iPad a lot. My main work setup is a
| Chromebook (Pixel Slate), which I only prefer over the iPad Pro
| because of the trackpad/mouse text selection and Chrome web
| developer tools.
| anamexis wrote:
| Also, Secure Shellfish does great at integrating SFTP with
| the Files app. (It doesn't do plain FTP, though.)
| munk-a wrote:
| I'm quite confused why you'd pursue attempting to use an iPad
| for development work. As someone who hates laptop-style thin
| keyboards I could justify it by the fact that carrying around
| a laptop and a keyboard feels more silly than an iPad and a
| keyboard - but the weight difference is pretty negligible and
| the software running on a laptop just has so much more
| utility for task switching (checking the kanban - making sure
| the VPN is up and running - quickly tabbing to chat to make
| sure you can disregard an @ mention) ... all these, on an
| iPad, require fully backing out with clunky key-presses to
| activate a very limited app switcher.
| Firaxus wrote:
| Consider looking into iSH, it let's you access a Linux like
| environment where you can download and use common packages like
| vim and python in a terminal. It has to emulate x86 calls, but
| for my use case of writing notes in vim and compiling and
| running simple c++ programs, it works. You can see some more
| information here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ish/
|
| But I completely agree that it's practically a moral crime that
| the OS is so locked down. Just a sandboxed native terminal
| would make this device my main coding environment. The cheap
| wireless keyboard and mouse I use with it makes the lack of a
| native terminal where I'd have complete control the one thing
| holding it back for me.
| dividedbyzero wrote:
| This can't be installed like a regular app, can it?
|
| Also, I wonder why they emulate x86 - isn't the iPad CPU
| ARM64? Couldn't this simply use binaries for that
| architecture?
| mkskm wrote:
| > This can't be installed like a regular app, can it?
|
| Surprisingly yes, it can, though it remains to be seen if
| it will be accepted to the App Store.
|
| > Also, I wonder why they emulate x86 - isn't the iPad CPU
| ARM64? Couldn't this simply use binaries for that
| architecture?
|
| This is explained on the FAQ:
| https://github.com/tbodt/ish/wiki/FAQ#q-is-ish-32-bit-
| or-64-...
| simonh wrote:
| Then you'd be running unsigned, unreviewed binaries
| bypassing iOS controls directly on the CPU, which would be
| a security nightmare for iOS. This way it's a completely
| emulated environment that's isolated from the underlying
| system.
| derefr wrote:
| Running x86 binaries under software emulation, and
| forking off arbirary ARM binaries, aren't the only two
| alternatives. You can do what Wine or gVisor does: run
| native-architecture code, but virtualize system calls as
| calls into the host binary.
| GranPC wrote:
| You can't run arbitrary unsigned machine code on iOS.
| Interpreting it is the only solution.
| mumblemumble wrote:
| The one that's been driving me up the wall lately is that I
| can't use screen sharing unless the iPad and the Mac are on the
| same Apple ID.
|
| It really kills the value of that feature in a setting where
| multiple people who each own their own set of devices want to
| be able to work together more easily. Like, say, homes, offices
| and schools.
| caconym_ wrote:
| For me the biggest gap between the iPad and a general purpose
| computer is the lack of a sensible, simple filesystem
| abstraction, and the pile of janky and inconsistent UI bullshit
| they apparently think can replace it. My iPad Pro is great for
| drawing and writing and browsing the web and watching video
| content, which are the things I bought it for, but when I use it
| I don't feel in control of my data.
|
| It's really sad, because I love it as a computing device and the
| missing pieces are totally arbitrary. It could offer the same
| user experience it offers now while still giving me the tools I
| need to have it replace my laptops and desktops.
|
| I bought my mom an iPad in 2012 and she is still (!) using it.
| She loves it. But she has an iMac too, which as far as I can tell
| she mostly uses to--you guessed it--manage files. Or, at least,
| that's the only part of her workflow that can't be hosted on the
| iPad. 8 years later, that's still the case.
| pier25 wrote:
| I also own a Pro and it's a fantastic device dragged down by
| the OS. Apple should have made iPadOS from day one instead of
| forcing an oversized phone OS into a bigger form factor. We'll
| see how that turns out in a couple of years.
| caconym_ wrote:
| Yeah, I think "forking" iOS was a fine decision at this point
| but I really hope they make the aggressive product decisions
| that are really needed to turn it into a practical general-
| purpose machine for users who aren't just content consumers.
|
| Also, I don't think they will. But I hope it anyway.
| gnicholas wrote:
| Gruber is right that the iPad hasn't revolutionized an industry
| like the Mac or iPhone. But the iPad was launched smack in the
| middle of the iPhone and the Mac, not in the middle of a green
| field.
|
| The iPhone had competition below it, from feature phones and
| Blackberrys. But there was nothing above it. Similarly, the Mac
| was launched into a very nascent market, where there were
| competitors (PCs), but it wasn't facing competition from above
| and below in the same way the iPad was.
|
| Perhaps the iPad would have done better and grown faster if it
| had been made by a company that wasn't worried about
| cannibalizing iPhone or Mac sales. But surely part of the reason
| the iPad has been as successful as it has is that it runs the
| same apps as iPhones and has attracted devs who might not have
| otherwise been interested.
| ghaff wrote:
| The iPad arguably succeeded because it wasn't a convertible.
| However, now, especially given big phones, it feels as if some
| sort of tablet/laptop convergence will eventually be the
| future.
| gherkinnn wrote:
| I'd argue that the iPad is an excellent chance to downgrade
| to a less capable phone.
|
| Get an iPhone ~8 -- no need for an 11 in combination with an
| iPad.
| icebraining wrote:
| I did that for a long time with a 7" Nexus tablet, but it's
| hard to carry an iPad in your pocket - even the Mini is
| almost 8", way too big for any of my pockets -, and if I
| have to carry a bag, I'd rather bring a full 12" laptop
| with me.
| gherkinnn wrote:
| Ah. I prefer my iPad over a laptop for most of my tasks
| that don't involve programming.
|
| Watching netflix, taking notes, even editing videos
| (holiday stuff for my own enjoyment), doodling, random
| browsing, planning trips, etc.
|
| I consider its restrictions a feature.
| ghaff wrote:
| Mostly disagree. The camera progression on newer iPhones is
| a big differentiator [for many]. Also I don't more or less
| always have an iPad in a pocket like I do a phone.
| gherkinnn wrote:
| Camera is true. Speaking for myself, I'm a hopeless
| photographer and the iPhone X' camera won't save me.
| ghaff wrote:
| One big difference with the newer phones is low light
| performance. I have a bunch of "real" cameras but I so
| often don't have them with me if I haven't set out with
| the explicit intention to take pictures.
|
| >I'm a hopeless photographer
|
| Like anything else you can learn. You may not transform
| yourself into a great photographer but learning some
| simple rules and practicing a bit will take you a long
| way. Smartphones have limitations relative to
| interchangeable lens cameras. But there's a lot you can
| do with them.
| monknomo wrote:
| I am not a natural photographer, but a couple rules I've
| followed have made my pictures better:
|
| 1. Light up the thing I'm trying to photograph
|
| 2. Keep the bright light sources behind me insofar as
| possible (for example, pictures of a person with the sun
| behind them are really hard)
|
| 3. Turn on the grid lines and try to get interesting
| things either on the lines or where the lines intersect
|
| 4. Line up horizons or vertical lines so the photo is
| clearly oriented, unless I'm trying to be disorienting
| ghaff wrote:
| Probably add rule of thirds. Rules are made to be broken
| but it's a reasonable starting point.
|
| ADDED: A couple of other things.
|
| (Usually) have a clear subject of interest. i.e. focus in
| on something.
|
| Probably related. If you are taking pictures of people,
| for example, get in closer.
| egypturnash wrote:
| "Turn on the grid lines" is basically "rule of thirds".
| gherkinnn wrote:
| Low light is an excellent point.
|
| Regarding skills; while yes I could learn it -- getting
| to a passable level is entirely possible. It's just that
| I don't really care that much.
| jghn wrote:
| I find the contemporary "smaller" smartphone form factors to
| be too large already.
| iso1210 wrote:
| > especially given big phones
|
| Work tried to upgrade my SE to an XR. The latter is unusable
| -- too large to hold in one hand while typing, too big for a
| pocket, far easier to drop, and absolutely no benefits from a
| larger screen - if I wanted a larger screen I'd get an ipad.
| dwnvoted2hell wrote:
| Sad author is sad because interface not like the other interfaces
| he has historically enjoyed. Bites at valid quirks of what every
| new style interface inevitably suffers from when different from
| the norm. Also, people are mad that tightly coupled computing
| devices are not easily swappable with other software and
| hardware.
| nallo wrote:
| I actually use iPad for coding nowadays. It is of course slower
| than using a keyboard but also a quite relaxing and fun way of
| programming.
| rhlsthrm wrote:
| What type of code do you write on iPad? Do you ssh into
| something to make it run?
| nallo wrote:
| PHP, html, JavaScript. Using FTP to push code directly from
| the app.
| shmoogy wrote:
| I ssh, and I run a vscode server, and jupyter notebooks from
| my iPad.
|
| Let's me query sql, full programming, normal IDE for NetSuite
| stuff I need to work on. It's great
| steeleduncan wrote:
| After a few years of frustration with trying to make my iPad
| useful for coding, I bought a Samsung Galaxy Tab A 10.1 and
| keyboard case for about 200GBP. Install Termux from the Google
| Play store (no warranty voiding rooting required). `apt install
| clang` and off you go.
|
| The iPad I had before this was undoubtedly prettier and had a
| better UI, but the cheapest iPad is twice this price and after
| years of buying apps, faffing with file sharing, and even
| porting one or two interpreters across to iOS I never managed
| what takes 10 minutes on Android.
| jmkni wrote:
| What apps do you use for coding?
| nallo wrote:
| Textastic
| 0xCMP wrote:
| As someone who uses his iPad Pro regularly, I love all the multi
| tasking of the iPad.
|
| I know many have written that they have issues with multiple
| windows on the iPad, but for me it's never been better or easier.
| My main gripe is keyboard behavior which is very buggy, but not
| related to how easy/hard it is to make and move apps around the
| screen.
|
| The fact is that the iPad is only useful because of its software.
| In my case it'd be useless without Files, Working Copy, Blink,
| Wireguard, and Screens. Only 1 of those is built-in and still
| it's a fairly recent addition. And it's the latest version on iOS
| 13 which is really the version which turbo-charged using many
| apps together easily. I use these apps to pretty much avoid
| directly using my "real computers" as much as possible via VMs or
| remote access via Wireguard.
|
| But, I think we're only seeing the beginning of the iPad. I can
| relate to the feeling that _" we should have more of what we
| expected by now"_, but the fact is that designing these power
| user interfaces, actually redesigning them for touch while making
| them compatible with existing ones, is very difficult.
|
| A great example for HN is how we develop like we're in the 70s
| with text terminals and executing commands. Where on the iPad it
| might make more sense for the terminal to be rich like a REPL
| where commands/expressions act more like the results of a
| Shortcut (rich data, not just text) or code might be edited as an
| AST instead of the text which allows the concept of a "source
| file" to go away and instead there be a source database. Instead
| of trying to rebuild the editors we had we build something else
| designed for testing, iterating, and managing the AST. Dark[1] is
| a good example of this, but currently focused on the web.
|
| This is all _way out there_ right now, but it makes me think that
| the iPad is still _just getting started_.
|
| [1]: https://darklang.com/
| garrickvanburen wrote:
| An iPad Pro has been my primary work device for nearly 20months
| now. I recommend it any professional that doesn't need to write
| code.
| gregjor wrote:
| An iPad is fine for writing code, but not capable of
| compiling/running code. For web development specifically you
| can't run a real web app on it. iOS Safari doesn't have the
| inspector/debugger so you can't use it much for
| debugging/experimenting with web pages.
|
| If iOS Safari had the inspector/debugger, or just inspector
| with live JS console, I would almost never need to use my
| laptop (which is just Chromebook, but runs full Chrome).
| ogre_codes wrote:
| > I know many have written that they have issues with multiple
| windows on the iPad, but for me it's never been better or
| easier.
|
| I use the iPad for the vast majority of my non-development
| computing. For me--and clearly for a lot of people--multi-
| tasking on the iPad has never been as good as it is on the Mac
| or even Windows. At the same time, it is absolutely as good/
| easy as it's ever been. It's just still awkward and sometimes
| frustrating.
|
| > This is all way out there right now, but it makes me think
| that the iPad is still just getting started.
|
| I think so too, I love the iPad and wish I could use it as my
| primary computer. Every year when WWDC (the show formerly known
| as WWDC?) rolls around I hope we'll see some improvements that
| would allow me to run some of my web development workflow on
| the iPad and I'm generally disappointed.
| 0xCMP wrote:
| Yea there are some ugly hacks to make that work.
|
| If you worked in Python I've seen people do work in
| Pythonista on YouTube, but the best way I've seen to develop
| "locally" without a jailbreak is setting up a RaspberryPi4 to
| provide an Ethernet device over USB-C which you can connect
| to via SSH. Definitely a major hack and you'll still need to
| either turn on the hotspot or connect the Pi some other way
| to the internet.
| Fiahil wrote:
| > Instead of trying to rebuild the editors we had we build
| something else designed for testing, iterating, and managing
| the AST.
|
| Considering that they barely managed to design working "regular
| user interfaces", the next-generation editors and development
| tools won't come from the teams currently working on iPad OS.
| 0xCMP wrote:
| I agree it'll probably have to be third party developers and
| we're seeing that. Short cuts (originally third party
| "workflow") is already pretty powerful. If you play with
| Audulus[1] you see a UI not too dissimilar to Dark except for
| Audio Synths instead of programming.
|
| Both obviously need to be greatly iterated on, but the bones
| are there.
|
| [1]: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/audulus-3/id1027525593
| Terretta wrote:
| Fully agree.
|
| I think Gruber's dead wrong, and folks should try it for a
| couple months. Leave the Macbook or Win10 laptop at home, and
| force yourself to rewire your brain into the iPad affordances
| and apps.
|
| Aside from being able to turn his complaint off:
|
| _To turn Multitasking features on or off, go to_ Settings >
| Home Screen & Dock > Multitasking _then turn off_ Allow
| Multiple Apps _if you don 't want to use Slide Over or Split
| View._
|
| I think it works fine for business and development consumption
| and creation, both.
|
| I've daily drivered iPad Pro with Apple keyboard for last 3
| generations of iPad 12.9". It started as an experiment to see
| if we could move employee population over for less support
| costs, and then became a habit because _it's just too ideal_ if
| you're mobile for travel or even between multiple offices and
| meetings.
|
| Each new Macbook model, I get nostalgic for MBP days and carry
| it around for a bit, and then realize too many compromises
| carrying a laptop compared to carrying or traveling with just
| the iPad Pro.
|
| I'm on a two week trip right now, with the brand new top of
| line Macbook Pro 16" with full dev and Adobe setup in my bag.
| But it only came out of my carry on once in two weeks, and that
| was a failure.
|
| Tried to display a web demo, some custom diagramming, and a
| PowerPoint on conference room screen from the laptop. Unable to
| use the enterprise guest WiFi due to their security proxies,
| and the hotspot was too slow. Popped the same USB-C HDMI
| adapter in the iPad, and showed all the content over LTE.
|
| In a room built for Windows world, people struggled, and
| failed, to get HDMI from their HP or Dell or Lenovo laptops
| working, via HDMI ports or USB-C ports. Both the Macbook and
| iPad "just worked" with Apple's same latest USB-C to HDMI
| adapter.
|
| With the always on networking, all day battery life, decent
| choice of text based dev tools including code editors, git
| clients, and terminals like Blink (mosh) to do git-commit based
| development/deployment, Citrix and RSA and enterprise VPN, not
| to mention full O365 and Adobe suites (though I recommend
| Affinity now), it's hard to figure out what it is I need the
| laptop for enough to deal with the PITA of carrying it.
|
| This was not true 10 years ago, but today, iPad Pro can be the
| sole computing device even for an enterprise technology
| executive.
|
| Bonus anecdata, I've recently noticed the iPad Pro is what's
| used by 80% of folks in the board room, even though it's a
| Windows based enterprise. _Something's_ changed.
| dkonofalski wrote:
| I agree that Gruber is wrong but only in his details. The
| iPad should have been much more than it is and, although I
| have seen it revolutionize the way that many field workers
| are able to do their jobs, I still think it could have been
| more.
|
| On another note, I also agree with the sentiment that people
| should try to force themselves to use it for a bit. I used to
| work for a company that did corporate software/hardware
| training and we'd always get people that were switching from
| a PC to a Mac that never bothered to even attempt to use
| their Macs differently and constantly complained about their
| company forcing them to switch. Once they stopped trying to
| right-click on everything and got used to dragging and
| dropping and just trying to discover things, they _always_
| got won over and preferred their Macs. This was during the
| early days of OS X and reached peak around Snow Leopard. I
| really like the newer macOS releases too but I wish they
| would focus more on fixing bugs and driving back to that
| discoverability that really made things intuitive to use.
| Terretta wrote:
| My guess, it's something about how a developer team or UX
| team experience the device themselves.
|
| Given the mockery of the "what's a computer?" ad, I'm
| guessing most are spending a majority of their time on
| other devices, and not living with this enough to envision
| the experiences it's more than capable of providing.
|
| Failure of imagination vs. failure of technology.
| ChrisLTD wrote:
| _Tried to display a web demo, some custom diagramming, and a
| PowerPoint on conference room screen from the laptop. Unable
| to use the enterprise guest WiFi due to their security
| proxies, and the hotspot was too slow. Popped the same USB-C
| HDMI adapter in the iPad, and showed all the content over
| LTE._
|
| Seems like a great argument for buying a Windows laptop with
| built in LTE, and/or pressuring Apple to add LTE to MacBooks.
| Terretta wrote:
| First, it's a terrible argument for it, main point was none
| of the Windows machines (employees not on the guest
| network) could sync with the HDMI screen via their array of
| HDMI and UBC-C ports? Driver problems, settings problems,
| screen management challenges ... LTE chip doesn't solve
| that. (OK, Mac with LTE would kick ass. Apple need to port
| "low data mode" over to MacOS.)
|
| Second, how many Windows or Mac laptops angle the screen
| from the middle of the base thanks to no touchpad, so the
| whole thing fits on a short airplane keyboard tray, or take
| no room on a cafe table, and are as easy to carry around as
| a legal pad in a folio?
|
| https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecar
| e...
|
| The new generation isn't 'origami', it's firm on your lap
| w/o a table as well.
|
| // I also have all the various Surfaces, and other brands'
| attempts to achieve similar form factors in Windows. Better
| than old iPad origami keyboard nonsense, worse than new
| iPad smart keyboard.
| EamonnMR wrote:
| > Tried to display a web demo, some custom diagramming, and a
| PowerPoint on conference room screen from the laptop. Unable
| to use the enterprise guest WiFi due to their security
| proxies, and the hotspot was too slow. Popped the same USB-C
| HDMI adapter in the iPad, and showed all the content over
| LTE.
|
| This sounds like more a symptom of wifi's universal awfulness
| than a failure of the MPB though. I generally use my phone as
| a wifi hotspot when I'm on my laptop for the same reason.
| Terretta wrote:
| Agree, as it happened both competing carriers on my iPhone
| were having too bad of a day for the higher bandwidth needs
| of a full laptop vs. a tablet.
| mediaman wrote:
| What do you use for text input? A case with integrated
| keyboard, or separate bluetooth keyboard, or something else?
| BryantD wrote:
| FWIW, I use the Smart Keyboard Folio from Apple for a
| somewhat different use case (pure writing) and I am pretty
| comfortable sitting down in a coffee shop and writing a few
| thousand words. It's certainly not as good as a mechanical
| keyboard, but it's convenient enough to make me comfortable
| traveling with just the iPad.
| Terretta wrote:
| Agree with you, it's easy to type.
|
| For whatever reason, I prefer this new generation iPad
| Pro smart keyboard from Apple over the MBP keyboards from
| 2015 till this fall's re-released 'old' keyboards on MBP.
| dkarl wrote:
| _folks should try it for a couple months. Leave the Macbook
| or Win10 laptop at home, and force yourself to rewire your
| brain into the iPad affordances and apps_
|
| Stop using other devices and give yourself a few months to
| learn the basics? This is how I used to encourage people to
| try desktop Linux in 2001.
| sixstringtheory wrote:
| I share a similar experience as parent. I only use my
| laptop for compiling iOS apps, almost everything else
| happens on my iPad Pro 10" with keyboard (want to upgrade
| to the larger size next). I don't think it takes months to
| learn the basics, but it does to work out all the little
| annoying differences between an iPad and MBP in your
| workflows, some of which aren't everyday things. The iPad
| isn't perfect, but it is great IMO.
| RandallBrown wrote:
| It's not giving people time to learn the basics. It's
| giving people time to retrain their brain because it's a
| different device that solves problems differently.
| Terretta wrote:
| That's also how you get habituals to stop complaining O365
| isn't Blackberry Work, or any other change to a tool that
| had become 'second nature'.
|
| You have to unlearn or overwrite the second nature.
| egypturnash wrote:
| You also have to be prepared for many weeks of the
| special frustration of not knowing how to do a thing, or
| if it even _can_ be done, and of any task potentially
| turning into a multi-hour rabbit hole of trying to figure
| out if and how to do it.
| tasogare wrote:
| > folks should try it for a couple months. Leave the Macbook
| or Win10 laptop at home, and force yourself to rewire your
| brain into the iPad affordances and apps.
|
| Hell no. The iPad is a nice PDF reading machine with its
| retina display and the pencil is a joy to use but the device
| is barely usable for any text entry and don't support any
| real programming workflow.
|
| However some shortcomings can also be positive, in particular
| I find the limited multi-tasking really helpful to
| concentrate on the reading of a paper, which is way way
| harder on a desktop computer with three screens, dozens of
| tabs opened and multiple running applications.
| Terretta wrote:
| You seem a little overconfident that it's unusable for text
| entry or programming workflow.
|
| I type holes through the rubber keyboard skin in about 6 -
| 9 months I do so much text entry. Silk screened key caps
| are mostly gone by month 3.
| mattkrause wrote:
| That....doesn't seem like a feature!
| HeWhoLurksLate wrote:
| Have you considered a mechanical keyboard? Those
| generally last a lot longer- like the switches are rated
| for something like 50 million presses, and if you get
| some good keycaps, you should be set for life.
|
| r/mechanicalkeyboards is a good place to go for help,
| esp. if you check the wiki.
| HeWhoLurksLate wrote:
| Are you using a physical keyboard, or an on-screen one? The
| Windows touch keyboard isn't great either.
|
| Not a very fair comparison.
| bhewes wrote:
| Same here. Though I forced myself to use Android exclusively
| for two years as my mobile computer. I added an 11inch Ipad
| Pro to my daily bag and I could not be happier.
| robertoandred wrote:
| Any computer is only useful because of its software.
| pdimitar wrote:
| As a programmer, I absolutely gave up on the multitasking on my
| iPad Pro. I don't use it in such a way and usually don't care.
| And the very few cases I wanted to use it like that I couldn't
| succeed in doing it even after my wife showed me 3 times (she
| uses her own iPad Pro in split screen very often and gotten used
| to the gestures; and even she makes mistakes occasionally).
|
| Just an anecdote. I am a very technical user and I still got
| confused by the multitasking / slide-over thing. So I just ignore
| it.
| mlfia wrote:
| Yes - I have the same experience.
|
| I use the iPad Pro and Juno connect as my main development
| tools, together with a VNC connection to an AWS instance for
| tasks that need a desktop.
|
| I tried to use split screen initially but found little value in
| it and now ignore.
| jrockway wrote:
| I also can't figure it out. I still have some window that
| appears on the side and I can't figure out how to completely
| get rid of it (from my experiments with multitasking while I
| was reading the documentation, or at least some website
| describing it). I don't know if that's intended but I have no
| idea how to use it, so don't.
|
| I had an easier time learning Xmonad back in the day, which
| might say something about Apple's UI design these days.
| Four8Five wrote:
| I gave up doing any meaningful, multi-tasking work on the iPad.
| Now it just sits as a $1000 Netflix / Email machine.
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| I would try to set up Remote Desktop. It is amazing how nice it
| is to have high powered computation available on a light
| weight, long battery life machine. Simply VPN / VNC in, and you
| are set to go. Also, iOS 13 supports any Bluetooth mouse, so
| that may help as well.
| cactus2093 wrote:
| Good points in the article. I also find the model names weirdly
| confusing, how did the iPad become the smaller, less powerful
| variant when the Air still exists? They did this with MacBooks
| too, though I think the tiny one may be discontinued now.
|
| And why is the iPad peripheral system such a mess? The released
| the pencil 2 which is a significant usability improvement and had
| every indication of replacing the pencil 1, but that was years
| ago and they keep releasing new pencil 1 only devices, while just
| calling both of them "Apple Pencil" in many places. If you want a
| good pencil now, there's no way to buy a moderately specced
| machine with it, you have to pay for the pro with more compute
| power than a high end laptop.
|
| And ipads now have full usb host support, but instead of
| marketing that as a perk, they kind of pretend it doesn't exist
| by calling it the "camera kit" like it only has one specific use.
| Someone wrote:
| _"but that was years ago and they keep releasing new pencil 1
| only devices"_
|
| Apple doesn't really release _new_ budget devices; the case may
| change, but once technology has advanced enough to release an
| improved top-end device and parts prices for the existing
| product have fallen enough, they package the parts of the
| former top-end device in a new lower-priced device.
| kbutler wrote:
| That turns out not to be true.
|
| The newer low-end models have various changes from the
| previous high-end models, including case changes, but also
| other hardware. The original low-end iPhone SE had the
| plastic case with the hardware of the 5-something - but a
| smaller display. The iPad mini had the guts of an iPad 2,
| except it was a smaller device, requiring a new motherboard
| and display, and it had a better camera, too.
|
| Similarly, the 2017 iPad was closest to the iPad Air 2, just
| a bit thicker with more battery, but it also had a new CPU
| and brighter display.
|
| That pattern of component upgrades and size changes
| continues, and as the GP mentioned, Pencil 2 support (magnets
| and charging) hasn't trickled down to any non-pro devices
| yet, in spite of new releases to those non-pro devices.
| wool_gather wrote:
| > The original low-end iPhone SE had the plastic case
|
| You're thinking of the iPhone 5c, which came out at the
| same time as the 5s -- well before the SE, which, slightly
| confusingly, was released _after_ the 6. The SE has always
| had a metal body.
| kbutler wrote:
| Woops, sorry, yes, I was conflating the 5c with the
| original SE release.
|
| So that gives another example of apples making a new low-
| end device from a mix of old and new components.
|
| 5c new plastic body, better front camera and LTE than 5.
|
| SE new low-end device with display of 5s, processor and
| back camera of 6s, front camera of ??, etc.
| pwthornton wrote:
| The iPhone SE had a metal body. I have one in my desk
| drawer right now. It was fantastic hardware. It just used
| cheaper cameras and a smaller screen.
| js2 wrote:
| My kids still use SEs. It's still a very functional
| phone. The internals are iPhone 6s era (A9). The plastic
| phone was the 5c (A6, same as the 5) and it's not even
| 64-bit so it can't be upgraded past iOS 10. (The SE is
| three generations newer than the 5C.)
| jdeibele wrote:
| My teenagers love their SEs. Oldest lost hers, tried
| Mom's old 6 for a while, then asked for another SE.
|
| My son's friends make fun of him for the small screen
| size of the SE compared to their 7s and 8s but he just
| says he's dropped it hundreds of times and it's working
| fine. It's in a case, of course.
| scarface74 wrote:
| The first generation pencil wasn't bad and it works with all
| iPads now.
| robohoe wrote:
| Yeah I use one extensively. It's great, especially for
| browsing website with tiny buttons (like HN) and drawing in
| notes. I don't think going to 2 is a huge concern.
| fulldecent2 wrote:
| The main design theory of Apple is simple: come up with a great
| usability feature and deploy it on one model. Then spend the
| next 5 to 10 years spreading this out to their other models.
| When people stop buying, just swap in a higher specced
| component from Intel and talk about how it is 2x faster.
| ASalazarMX wrote:
| The Apple watch case is infuriating.
|
| Since the new series 5 is a very minor incremental upgrade
| from the 4, they discontinued the latter, but still sell the
| 3. This way the comparison table between 3 and 5 make it seem
| like the 5 was a bigger improvement.
| samatman wrote:
| Another head-scratcher with the Pencil 2 is that Apple doesn't
| sell a first-party case with a retaining flap for it.
|
| The magnets are strong enough to keep it in place during normal
| use, but there's no way to put it in a bag and retrieve it
| without the Pencil flying off.
|
| I eventually got a third-party case that does the right thing,
| it's just a strange oversight.
| BryantD wrote:
| A few vendors sell a pencil-sized sleeve attached to an
| elastic strap that goes around the Apple case; I have one of
| those and it also works very well. Agree that it's an odd
| omission.
| rhodysurf wrote:
| The USB host support irks me. I have an iPad Pro with USB C and
| I really want to be able to connect to things like arduinos and
| other mcus but there is no way to write drivers unless you pay
| for MFI and develop some hardware that is authenticated. Its
| really disheartening.
| vl wrote:
| > And ipads now have full usb host support
|
| And iPhones too, I just used iPhone with USB powered hub, USB
| mic and USB DAC for headphones, worked great :)
| CarlRJ wrote:
| IIRC, the Pencil 2 requires different (and likely more
| expensive) support in the screen, as well as docking to the
| side of the iPad and charging magnetically - both of which
| raise the costs for the iPad. And then the lower cost models
| wouldn't be so lower-cost any more. It does feel like they
| could have thought ahead a little better on that, though. FWIW,
| the Pencil 1 isn't a -bad- stylus - it was hugely praised when
| it was released, the Pencil 2 is just a bit better.
|
| As to the "Air" name... they got to where they had a solid low-
| priced offering and a "Pro" line with huge prices. And a big
| hole in the middle. But "iPad Medium" wasn't appealing, so they
| resurrected the "Air" name. (FWIW, writing this on an iPad Air
| 3, and I love it - the only real loss for me, from the Pro, was
| the "ProMotion" variable rate 120Hz display, and I could live
| without that, for $$$ less.)
| Swizec wrote:
| I bought an Air 3 with Pencil 1 and yeah it was _okay_. Went
| back the very next day to upgrade to a Pro with Pencil 2.
|
| It really is that much better of an experience. Just the
| ergonomics of magnetic storage and charging make a world of
| difference. And the pencil feels natural in your hand instead
| of like a stylus.
|
| Sure they're still not on the level of a circa 2010 Wacom
| Intuos - damn I loved that thing - but there's no comparison.
| Pay the extra $300 to get a Pro with Pencil 2 if you can.
|
| Now I'n thinking of getting a keyboard as well because the
| unimaginable is happening - my 2017 MBP feels cumbersome
| compared to the iPad. Only for Very Serious Work.
| omikun wrote:
| I have a first gen pro with the pencil 1 and find it better
| than an Intuos 3. I wasn't aware the later Intuos got much
| better, but I have not gone back to Photoshop/Wacom after
| getting the pencil. The comfort, form factor, and ease of
| use are just too good to let go.
| cainxinth wrote:
| I bought an Air 3 to replace my Air 1 recently and came the
| same conclusion as you. I got it for almost the exact price
| of my original one ($400) but with 4x more storage and the
| screen is larger (10.5' instead of 9.7') and laminated/
| bonded this time. I use a tablet for media consumption not
| creation, so I don't need the fastest processor or a stylus,
| and the Air line has been perfect for me.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| Docking to the side and charging magnetically doesn't just
| require magnetic charging hardware, it requires a redesign of
| the iPad to not have curved sides. So far that's only the
| 2018 iPad Pro.
|
| I had figured this would spread to the other iPads ASAP
| because of the Pencil 2, but they seem happy to drag it out
| for a couple of years.
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| Charging magnetically on the side of the host device is
| neat, but not required. A separate charging dock would work
| too.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| I don't think that would be a good solution, you'd have
| yet another oddball charging widget and if you didn't
| bring it with you everywhere the battery would die and
| you couldn't recharge it.
|
| If anything, I'd rather they put the charging hardware in
| the front bezel somewhere, since that's already flat. Not
| a good place for storage or for charging the pencil while
| the iPad is in use, but at least you wouldn't get
| stranded with a dead stylus and no charging gizmo.
| throw0101a wrote:
| The iPad (and tablets in general) have really changed the game
| when it comes to flying. So many private pilots use e-charts
| nowadays: I'd love to see the sales figures on paper charts over
| the last decade.
|
| Even commercial crews (CPL, ATPL) are using them, and no longer
| have to lug around booklets.
|
| For 'redundancy' people often don't use paper, but have multiple
| electronic devices as well.
| obelos wrote:
| Sure, getting apps into multitasking mode is hard, but have you
| tried to get an app _out_ of multitasking? Especially a "Slide
| Over" window? Just when you think you've banished it, you open
| the host app again and the slide over app revivifies. It's
| maddening. Every time I accidentally get an app into this mode I
| have to search the support docs for the magic sequence to make
| the window finally go away. I love my iPad, but a couple aspects
| are unambiguously terrible UX.
| w-m wrote:
| > The iPad has been a spectacular success, and to tens of
| millions it is a beloved part of their daily lives, but it has,
| to date, fallen short of revolutionary.
|
| Why does everything have to be revolutionary? Pretty much
| everybody I know who has an iPad love using their device. It's a
| wonderful tool for media and web consumption, it just works for
| that use case very, very well. It can be used effortlessly, for
| multiple hours a day. Does it really have to do more?
|
| Personally I just don't use split-screen apps on the iPad, but
| I'm not the least inconvenienced by the feature being around,
| behind some strange gestures I don't really bothered to learn.
| leadingthenet wrote:
| > Does it really have to do more?
|
| It should do more to justify the price tag of the Pro model.
|
| It should also do more simply because Apple's advertising for
| the product attempts very hard to push it into a productivity
| device angle, not a consumption one. Hence the "what is a
| computer?" debacle.
| Brave-Steak wrote:
| > Personally I just don't use split-screen apps on the iPad
|
| I think that's the problem. As somebody who uses splitscreen
| all the time, it's utterly painful. It's a great feature, but
| whoever designed it from a usability-standpoint was, quite
| frankly, retarded. The problem is that it could be _so much_
| better, even revolutionary, but it stumbles on the
| implementation of features like this.
| chadlavi wrote:
| > But the Mac's "When do I click, when do I double-click?" issue
| has confused untold millions of non-expert users for decades.
|
| I mean. Does it really, still? If so, that's horrifying as a
| technologist and sad.
| takanori wrote:
| It's an $11 Billion dollar hardware business that's double the
| size of the Mac.
|
| IMHO, the biggest innovation is that an enterprise can purchase
| one of these interest free for ~$20 / month (no interest) and get
| a brand new one in 3 years through Apple's enterprise sales.
|
| Hardware sold as a service. $11B.
|
| I think the focus on multitasking misses the real innovation.
| wpietri wrote:
| It seems to me is that his main complaint is that the iPad fell
| short of what he dreamed it could do. But I think the problem
| there is in the dreaming, not the device.
|
| I have a Samsung tablet, the Galaxy Tab S4. As a consumption
| device, it's great. I read books and newspapers; I watch videos
| and movies; I play the occasional game. It's great for that. I
| use my projector way less now, and don't have to struggle with
| the awkwardness of phones or laptops for those tasks.
|
| Like Gruber, I thought it might do more, so I got it with the
| keyboard case, and thought about traveling with just that. But I
| pretty quickly swapped that for a dumb case and just kept
| traveling with my laptop when I needed to do actual work. A real
| keyboard and a real trackpad are way more effective for
| productive work than anything that's going to snap on to a
| tablet. Conversely, when I'm just aiming to consume something,
| there's a lot of hardware and OS complexity I just don't need.
|
| I think it's telling here that he doesn't say what sort of
| revolution he really expects out of the iPad. He doesn't talk
| about an audience or a use case the iPad could serve if there
| were specific changes. Instead it's just a grumble about an
| obscure feature and how his grandmother struggles with it. In my
| view, tablets have definitely lived up to their potential. It
| just took us a bit to figure out what that potential really was.
| jxdxbx wrote:
| Slide Over is one of the best features out there. And it's as
| simple as can be. You get what amounts to a mini iPhone available
| on command. And split screen is not only very useful, I think
| it's a fundamentally better multitasking model that the
| traditional desktop OS for screens under 23" or so.
|
| I agree that adding apps to multitasking seems to baffle people.
| But this seems like it can
| zaphoyd wrote:
| Speaking of mini iphone... I have so many iPhone only apps that
| I wish I could run in the "mini iPhone split" next to whatever
| else I am doing rather than forcing them to take over the whole
| screen with an iPhone sized picture in the middle.
| scarface74 wrote:
| That was intentionally. Apple wanted iPhone apps to suck on
| the iPad to force developers to make an iPad app. If
| developers can get away with just shipping an iPhone app and
| still have a decent experience they will.
| myt6fore wrote:
| John Gruber craves the power of keyboard macros on his iPad. He
| apparently thinks that's not possible as iPad's main power is
| one-state mode (and it truly is a remarkable tool that way).
| There's always a learning curve with artificial interfaces.
| Standard way to bridge this is use of metaphors. The problem with
| iOs on iPad is that iPhone was it's metaphor...
| garrickvanburen wrote:
| Within weeks, I sold the iPad v1 I bought the day it was released
| and I derided the iPad from that day on.
|
| Fast forward to today, iPad Pro has been my primary device for
| pushing 2 years.
|
| With a keyboard and multi-tasking it's a far more flexible,
| collaborative, and portable compute experience compared to my
| MacBook.
| swiley wrote:
| I'd say the iPad is the symbol of everything wrong with consumer
| computing devices, I really hate it. The most upsetting thing is
| that I'm not sure that's true, look at the cheap Windows PCs and
| Android phones: they're full frontal active assaults on the
| users! It's all terrible!
| dredmorbius wrote:
| The tablet form-factor, battery-life, screen display, and wifi
| connectivity make it a potentially incredible tool -- yes,
| between a phone and a laptop, but also able to instantly convert
| between protrait and landscape modes, be tossed in a bag, propped
| up on a lap.
|
| With the addition of a folio-type keyboard and self-supporting
| tip-up mode, there's little the device cannot do from a set of
| basic laptop functionality. And yet it's still a fully-capable
| touch device.
|
| Where failure enters is in the accessories and peripherals
| (especially keyboards), and of course, the OS and apps.
|
| At which point I think I'm going to end up re-writing the rant
| I'd composed nearly three years ago, so I'll just link it:
|
| https://ello.co/dredmorbius/post/lqgtwy_rhsfbdh5cdxb1rq
|
| TL;DR:
|
| 1. Standardise form factors so keyboards Just Freaking Fit.
|
| 2. Offer a true and robust shell and Linux userland, with
| filesystem access.
|
| 3. Provide real apps with full keyboard support.
|
| 4. Uncripple the OS.
|
| I'm looking at PineTab and Purism's tablet offerings with
| interest.
|
| 2-in-1 laptop designs ... _might_ work, though the additional
| hardware and fragility strike me as large liabilities.
| AgloeDreams wrote:
| On #2, I've been really impressed with using ChromeOS's 'Linux
| Shell' I actually went out and bought a Chromebook Pixel LS and
| have been able to easily replace my work MacBook with it, love
| the 3:2 display and bits of the cleverness. Lenovo has a new
| tablet hybrid that might meet your needs. The Android App
| keyboard support sucks but the Linux stuff works great and for
| just content browsing and web work, Chrome OS comes pretty
| close to iPadOS or a Mac, it's very much a two headed monster
| of sorts.
|
| The problem with competing with the iPad is just how
| hilariously advanced Apple is in the category of basic use.
| It's shocking really just how good the technical engineering
| side of their work is. The iPad Pro honest to goodness runs at
| 120 FPS with a less than 10ms pencil input response rate in a
| 6mm package with Core i7 Level CPU performance at ~$650.
| Microsoft can't currently match those numbers in a Windows
| based product, Google couldn't come close with the pixel Slate.
| Apple's $330 product outperforms the average laptop so doing
| something competitive in open source levels for under $200 is
| hard as heck to impossible just for things like 'open an app'
| and the bar is so high due to phones, people expect touch to
| compete with a $1000 phone (and rightfully so, they are
| great!).
| dredmorbius wrote:
| The Lonovo Yoda (?) is one option I've looked at.
|
| E-ink devices another. The Remarkable Tablet, updated to 128
| GB - 1 TB storage, might work.
| jedberg wrote:
| Almost every comment in this thread can be summarized thusly:
|
| "I wish I could install my own OS/Apps on my iPad to solve the
| problems I have".
| ngcc_hk wrote:
| I recently bought 3 ipad (and two e-ink one) as a replacement of
| book and reference. The ipad is great as it can be used and sync
| ... it works great with my MacBook Pro.
|
| It is a good part of the ecosystem.
| icanhackit wrote:
| The iPad as a portable computer suffers from the same problem
| cameras do - the best camera is the one you have with you, and in
| that same way the best computer is often the phone in your
| pocket.
| shams93 wrote:
| It's become a platform for music production. A lot of music apps
| like beatmaker3 only exist on the iPad. It's replaced the
| computer for me as my daw system for music production.
| cm2187 wrote:
| Text selection is the most broken thing to me on an ipad. It
| makes any kind of editing pretty much unusable. Great device to
| browse the web from my bathtub and watch movies on a plane, but
| haven't found any other usage.
| hinkley wrote:
| I just learned the spacebar trick a few months ago.
|
| I still get "5e" instead of "the" about twice a month. And once
| in a while I will be typing and four words to half a sentence
| will just disappear and I still have no idea how I'm doing
| that.
|
| A whole new text entry system wouldn't go amiss for me, either.
| asplake wrote:
| > And once in a while I will be typing and four words to half
| a sentence will just disappear and I still have no idea how
| I'm doing that
|
| I don't edit text on the iPad for exactly that reason. As
| soon as I start typing fast using the screen keyboard, I keep
| losing stuff
| cm2187 wrote:
| But try selecting text from a web page...
| Decade wrote:
| For me, a chunk of text would go missing because it
| interprets fast typing as double, triple, quadruple tapping.
| Which means the text is selected and then promptly
| overwritten. The solution is to be deliberate about typing
| slowly on the screen keyboard.
| https://www.howtogeek.com/441872/how-to-use-text-editing-
| ges...
| silveroriole wrote:
| It would be nice if they fixed the autocorrect learning
| insane things like correcting "male" to "Male" and "doesn't"
| to "DOESNT", so I wouldn't have to do so much text selection
| to fix it. My iPhone which is really behind on iOS versions
| doesn't do this but my iPad is awful for it.
| nothrabannosir wrote:
| Autocorrect on the iOS from four years ago was nothing
| short of magic. It would understand the most confused
| babble and rarely needed any guidance. It even seemed to
| get used to my style of typing after a while. Today, it is
| a constant battle. It keeps trying to rope in my address
| book, different languages I'm not typing in, and arcane
| words. I correct it every four sentences at least.
|
| I thought I wanted these features; boy was I wrong.
| e_proxus wrote:
| My favorite pet peeve is trying to edit URLs in the address bar
| in Safari. Just trying to get the cursor to the end of the
| address field a an error prone chore. Often the text is select
| and there's no way to unselect it. Then of course it doesn't
| help when you want to remove some components of the URL that
| Safari helpfully autocompletes back to the URL you jus visited.
| TrickyRick wrote:
| Force touching on the keyboard gives your finger control over
| the cursor more like a touch pad on a computer. It works
| really well on the iPhone, not sure if it's available on
| iPad. But yet again, one of those feature you just have to
| know about to use.
| vincnetas wrote:
| Use three fingers on keyboard for same effect on devices
| without force touch.
| johnwalkr wrote:
| It was never available on iPad, and is no longer on newer
| iPhones. It's replaced by a long touch, but this cursor
| control function has disappeared.
| monocularvision wrote:
| Long touch the space bar in the keyboard to get the
| trackpad-like functionality back.
| JMTQp8lwXL wrote:
| Thank you. I had trouble activating this feature. On iOS
| it seems to work anywhere on the keyboard, not limited to
| a particular key.
| egypturnash wrote:
| Two-finger touch anywhere on the keyboard also turns it
| on, though I usually find that pretty awkward.
| TrickyRick wrote:
| Thank goodness it's still around! Yet once again, no way
| of knowing that feature is there without being told.
| cma wrote:
| It is on iPad, two-finger touch the scroll bar and it
| does it.
| selectodude wrote:
| I hate how utterly undiscoverable stuff like this is. I
| use the force touch trackpad on my iPhone constantly and
| always wished it existed on the iPad.
| derg wrote:
| Yep, for all the pride they take in the "it just works"
| and their "simpler" UI, they certainly love to hide
| useful features and just not tell you about them upfront.
|
| Yeah, you can read and play around with the phone to
| learn but something simple like cursor and text
| adjustment should be priority no. 1 in terms of alerting
| the user that a function actually exists.
| derg wrote:
| I am actually kind of annoyed they removed the force
| touch on newer iphones. I used it so often on my
| keyboard.
|
| The tradeoff was a 4-hour longer battery so there was
| probably more gained than lost there but the usable area
| to move the cursor shrunk considerably (to a long touch
| on the spacebar _only_ ) and makes it harder to use.
| thejohnconway wrote:
| Doesn't work on an iPad, which is where I want the feature
| the most. Also, force touch is no fine in newer model
| phones (because they screwed up the implementation in my
| opinion).
| freehunter wrote:
| The same thing works on an iPad or phones without Force
| Touch, you just need to start the gesture from the space
| bar. Long-press the space bar and now you can move the
| cursor anywhere by dragging.
|
| Yes, hidden and undiscoverable gestures are a problem.
| spurgu wrote:
| This is one of the reasons I don't understand why there are
| so many iPhone/iOS fanboys... are they actually never
| experiencing these kind of frustrating bits of iOS or are
| they just ignoring them? Because I experience them all the
| time. Only reason I haven't switched back to Android (yet) is
| that I love the form factor of the iPhone SE.
| Steltek wrote:
| I felt this rather acutely at work where I was strongarmed
| into giving up my Linux desktop for a MacBook. When I ask
| how a Mac-loving coworker solved a OS problem, I'm met with
| blank stares as if they've never recognized it as a
| drawback, let alone wished for a solution. Multi-monitor
| support is a particular pain point for me; there just seems
| to be so much missing and I can't understand why.
| AgloeDreams wrote:
| Two fingers on the keyboard, it turns into a cursor control.
| You're welcome :)
| e_proxus wrote:
| That does not work for me on iOS 13.3.
| jonplackett wrote:
| This is so much worse as of ios13 - which was somehow meant to
| make text selection better, but for me made it so much less
| consistent.
|
| I really feel like this should be a solvable problem though. It
| can't be that complicated to select text reliably.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| This could actually be a valid reason to jailbreak my iPhone
| (the last time I did so was 10 years ago). Does anyone know
| if there are any tweaks that would bring back the old pre-
| iOS13 behaviour?
| jodrellblank wrote:
| This has been such a pet hate for years on systems with a
| mouse as well as iPhone iOS, that I assume it is nigh
| impossible to select text reliably and conveniently, for some
| unexplored reason or other. It's always the case that I can
| get a selection backwards up to the first letter but missing
| it, or including the first letter and some extra junk from
| the lines before, but not simply up to and including the
| first letter.
|
| Right now replying to your comment on Windows, FireFox, with
| a mouse, I have just discovered a new text selection mode
| I've never noticed before[1] - double-click-and-drag selects
| whole words. Consistently up to the new word boundary on the
| right. That means it's possible to select an entire sentence
| up to (but without) the period. Or including the period and a
| trailing space. But not the obvious one to want - a sentence
| including the period and no trailing space.
|
| [1] I know double-click commonly selects words, and triple-
| click selects sentences, but didn't know of double-click-
| drag.
| johnwalkr wrote:
| Just checked and it works on MacOS too. Thank you, what a
| game-changer!
| gmac wrote:
| Agreed -- moving the cursor and selecting text has become
| almost unusable for me on iOS 13 [1]. It's a shame, because I
| always used to be impressed at how easy and natural it felt.
| I really hope they figure this out and reinstate the old
| approach.
|
| [1] As I was saying only the other day:
| https://twitter.com/jawj/status/1221038674193932288
| [deleted]
| irrational wrote:
| It is fantastic for creating artwork, if you are artistic.
| ekianjo wrote:
| Not Just broken on ipads, pretty much every touch based system
| out there has horrible UI to select text...
| victor106 wrote:
| Well written article. I love Gruber's realistic take on Apple
| more than when it seems like he is a fanboy.
|
| >and apps that aren't in the Dock can't become the second app in
| split screen mode. What sense does that limitation make?
|
| I think that hits the nail on the head. I just couldn't believe
| that somehow Apple settled on this UI interaction for
| multitasking.
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