[HN Gopher] A vegan diet could affect your intelligence
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A vegan diet could affect your intelligence
Author : elorant
Score : 40 points
Date : 2020-01-28 21:51 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
| Dumblydorr wrote:
| The only source study cited is of schoolchildren receiving a
| snack in a low income nation. This is bad scientific reporting,
| they way overstep their bounds, typical BBC article.
| cies wrote:
| Seriously BBC?
|
| The plant based diet (the diet component of being vegan) is found
| adequate by the WHO for all stages of life.[1]
|
| Now this article if full of picking some studies that have proven
| that in some case something was wrong with a some form of plant
| based diet, or less optimal than the form of omni diet the
| control was on.
|
| And this is true! There are unhealthy plant based diets, and
| there are quite healthy omni diets. And --thanks BBC for pointing
| it out once again-- us plant eaters should be careful of some
| nutrients we may lack (as should omnis) AND some forms food we
| may over consume (as should omnis). Pretty much the only one that
| plant based eaters are more lacking in than omnis is B12.
| Otherwise plant eaters usually score overall BETTER than omnis,
| but sadly the BBC leaves this information out of this article
| (meat industry promo piece), gladly they published this kind of
| info in a separate article 5 DAYS EARLIER.[2]
|
| There are a whole lot of diets within the plant based diet. A
| particularly healthy one, according to research, is the Whole
| Food Plant Based diet. And most MDs (which are quite a few)
| recommending this diet do underline the need for B12
| supplementation (both in plant eaters and in omnis).
|
| While this article come with a study of 555 Kenyan kids being
| given omni food scoring better than the group given plant food.
| Ok.
|
| Let me show you this study:
|
| > In a large representative population study of more than 8000
| British men and women, intelligence in childhood was associated
| with a vegetarian diet in mid-adulthood, and this was independent
| of educational attainment and social class.[3]
|
| It's bigger (n=8000), it in a developed nation (UK), it controls
| for all kinds of factors and concludes a correlation between
| intelligence and vegetarianism. No causation though. But I recon
| the 555 Kenya school children study also did not prove causation.
|
| So? Why would the BBC publish such a piece? In clear
| contradiction to something they published 5 days earlier? An
| article that cherry picks to the point it's sneakily suggestive?
| Every one may judge for themselves but I think it is
| paid/compensated journalism, at a govt owned outlet. Needles to
| say, the BBC lost some more point for me today.
|
| 1: https://www.plantbasednews.org/lifestyle/the-largest-
| organiz...
|
| 2: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200122-are-there-
| health...
|
| 3: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1790799/
| SeanFerree wrote:
| Great article!
| KitDuncan wrote:
| What a weak article and study. I am not familiar with BBCs
| content, but I would have expected it to be better quality.
| markstos wrote:
| What was weak about the article and study?
| KitDuncan wrote:
| Am on phone, so I don't want to type much, but it's a
| clickbaity headline, paired with a very weak and flawed study
| that makes it impossible to include literally anything.
| gregcrv wrote:
| "Others are found in vegan foods, but only in meagre amounts;
| to get the minimum amount of vitamin B6 required each day
| (1.3 mg) from one of the richest plant sources, potatoes,
| you'd have to eat about five cups' worth (equivalent to
| roughly 750g or 1.6lb). Delicious, but not particularly
| practical."
|
| Chickpeas, canned, 1 cup 1.1mg of vitamin B6 55% DV Source: h
| ttps://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB6-HealthProfession..
| .
|
| And let's not talk about their claim that omega3 cannot be
| found in plants or that vitamin D can only come from
| supplements...
| 1024core wrote:
| Yep, that was a total strawman argument. I read it, and
| wondered why potato was chosen? Just to make the point, I
| guess; but that speaks to the sensationalist urge plaguing
| the author.
|
| There was also no information about any conflicts of
| interest. I'd be interested in knowing if there were any?
| Zod666 wrote:
| I don't know much about this, so please correct me if I'm
| wrong, but plant based omega 3's have a horrible conversion
| rate don't they?
| ovx99 wrote:
| They have a lesser conversion rate, but what most
| paleo/anti-vegan arguments neglect to mention in terms of
| plant omega-3 sources is that if you simply eat more
| total ALA, the net omega-3 will be the same to your body.
| Seems obvious, but people never seem to acknowledge that.
| It's not such a lesser conversion rate that this isn't
| practical or possible. Not to mention there's studies
| showing alternative benefits of ALA despite having less
| conversion rate overall. Similarly with krill oil --
| there's less EPA/DHA compared to fish oil per gram but
| it's utilized differently by the body and has shown
| variations in bioavailability when measured (krill vs
| fish oil is an ongoing topic of interest).
| markstos wrote:
| I have more energy since shifting towards a vegan diet-- mid-day
| slumps are rare now and I have more energy after work in the
| evening as well.
|
| Work on complex coding and DevOps tasks continues as before.
| mrits wrote:
| I bounce back and forth. I don't notice any difference in
| thoughtfully planed diet that does or does not contain meat.
| I'm pretty active (marathon runner, weight lifting etc) so I'm
| particularly sensitive to diet changes. It's hard to be vegan
| without food prep which is what can really skyrocket your
| health
| dogma1138 wrote:
| Was your previous non-vegan diet actually good? As in high on
| fibrous veggies, moderate amount of complex carbs, low on sugar
| and high on high quality protein?
|
| When people switch to vegan they essentially rely more on home
| cooked meals and stay away from junk it doesn't mean that a
| vegan diet is better than a non vegan diet of the same quality.
|
| If you switch from twinkies to lentil patties and cauliflower
| rice it's no wonder that you feel better.
| abfan1127 wrote:
| I came here to say this. When I switched from a typical
| American diet of crappy carbs, soda, and other sugar based
| crap to a, High Fat, High Protein diet, I got a ton of
| energy, slept better, etc. While I see a ton of value in my
| dietary choices, it was the lack of sugar that made life
| better.
| somehnguy wrote:
| I did the keto diet for the majority of last year to lose
| weight. It was extremely successful and I lost 75 pounds. I
| noticed the exact same thing you did in regards to energy
| levels and overall just feeling better. My energy levels
| did not fluctuate at all during the day, even post heavy
| meals. I also didn't seem to have any of those random days
| where you just feel like you're dragging along. I was also
| exercising heavily 4-6 days a week though, I'm sure that
| had some part in everything.
|
| After a major (unrelated) surgery that left me basically
| incapacitated for 6 months I went back to a normal diet and
| low exercise. The difference in overall energy and
| wellbeing is astounding. I plan to go back to keto soon
| actually in hopes of achieving the extremely predictable
| energy levels again.
| Relys wrote:
| Probably due to eating less simple carbs and sugars.
| radicalbyte wrote:
| I had the same results from both a vegan diet and a whole foods
| diets.
|
| Both diets largely excluded processed food (I'd eat tofu,
| fermented sauces in both, and some high quality ham in the
| whole food diet).
|
| I think that the large ratio of vegetables and lack of simple
| sugars was the cause more so than the meat.
|
| I get a similar boost when following body-building diets, these
| include simple sugars around training time and highly processed
| whey isolate. I have always used them to drop weight too so
| you're running at a calorie deficit. On those diets I've felt
| fantastic except the day after the binge day (you need to have
| a surplus once every 7-10 days to avoid starving).
| ianai wrote:
| Yep, I feel a definite boost in decisiveness when I take my
| morning B12 lozenge. Which we should all be taking btw...
| goldenkey wrote:
| Wild, sustainably caught fish is the diet to go for if you care
| about the environment and your own health. I'm not going to give
| flak to vegans, their self-sacrifice is indicative of real care
| for their fellow beings.
| unwaryquerier wrote:
| *for those who can afford it. Also, sourcing sustainability
| isn't an exact science in most first world countries.
| ianai wrote:
| I really doubt wild fish can be sustainably caught. We
| shouldn't be fishing them at all, I'd claim.
| Polylactic_acid wrote:
| This is a pretty well written article. Hopefully people read past
| the headline. The most important bit being "could" affect. Some
| limited tests have been done on kids which found some difference
| but its not clear if it has any effect on adults.
|
| It also sounds like a vegan diet with a few nutritional
| supplements could entirely solve the issue. At the very least we
| know that we can hugely reduce our meat consumption with positive
| outcomes.
| Dumblydorr wrote:
| How is it well written? They make claims about massive swaths
| of the global population based on a single study from an
| African school giving kids snacks.
| ovx99 wrote:
| From the article:
|
| "Other [nutrients] are found in vegan foods, but only in meagre
| amounts; to get the minimum amount of vitamin B6 required each
| day (1.3 mg) from one of the richest plant sources, potatoes,
| you'd have to eat about five cups' worth (equivalent to roughly
| 750g or 1.6lb). Delicious, but not particularly practical."
|
| And yet when you investigate plant sources of b6,
|
| Banana:
|
| Vitamin B6 per 200 Calories 0.8mg (49% DV)
|
| Beef: Vitamin B6 per 200 Calories 0.4mg (21% DV)
|
| Interesting! Very interesting! I wonder what percentage of
| readers of this article are going to investigate what this
| authoritative science writer says for themselves? After all, why
| not trust the expert with a graduate degree working for the BBC?
|
| So which is it, is the author unable to investigate in the most
| basic manner the actual B6 content in foods, when she apparently
| has a doctorate, or is this some sort of propagandist trash
| article with an agenda? Because I'm not sure what other options
| there are based on the way the quoted paragraph is written.
|
| Moreover, what are the implications for the BBC's editorial
| standards that something like this was greenlit?
| cies wrote:
| > is this some sort of propagandist trash article with an
| agenda?
|
| I'm seriously thinking this is paid journalism.
|
| The BBC published this article a mere 5 days earlier:
|
| https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200122-are-there-health...
|
| A much more balanced article if you ask me. Both journalists
| are freelancers.
| rusk wrote:
| The BBC really needs to be listed as an unreliable source.
| ianai wrote:
| I get these same arguments from non-vegans all too often. I
| then have to have the same discussion that takes a nontrivial
| amount of time and effort. I'm also usually told I'm wrong or
| should still rethink my dietary choices. We don't need to go
| down this road again.
|
| See the rest of the discussion for what they're point out.
| It's bunk.
| rusk wrote:
| I was just pointing out that the vast majority of BBC
| articles posted on HN are junk ... did you mean to reply to
| me?
|
| It used to be the case that BBC was a byword for
| reliability and impartial reporting but in my opinion it
| has really taken a nosedive in the last 15 years (my
| personal theory is the establishment gutted it after the
| 2003 invasion of Iraq because they were a little bit _too_
| impartial).
|
| People see a BBC article claiming something controversial
| and they're like _oh my god this changes everything_
| because they're still under the impression it still has any
| kind of journalistic heft but really it is little better
| than buzzfeed these days.
| ianai wrote:
| I'm agreeing with you but adding my experiences for the
| discussion.
| rusk wrote:
| I'm sorry I misunderstood. I hope you don't mind that I
| took the opportunity to clarify my position just because
| I felt it had to be said, not because I'm arguing with
| you :-)
| gregcrv wrote:
| Even better: Chickpeas, canned, 1 cup 1.1mg of vitamin B6 55%
| DV Source:
| https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB6-HealthProfession...
|
| And let's not talk about their claim that omega3 cannot be
| found in plants or that vitamin D can only come from
| supplements...
| frandroid wrote:
| > Along with the children who received soup with added oil, they
| also did the best on a test of arithmetic ability.
|
| So huh, really, it was the extra calories, not the meat per se.
|
| > In the winter months, when the sun is weaker, omnivores living
| in the UK have nearly 40% more vitamin D3 in their blood than
| vegans.
|
| ...Because milk is artificially supplemented with D3! Funny that.
|
| > No one has looked into how this might be affecting their
| cognitive abilities yet
|
| So don't be a scaremonger?
|
| > As for Gandhi
|
| That renowned nutritionist!
| Ididntdothis wrote:
| There is a wide variety of vegan diets. You could eat only potato
| chips and drink soda and be vegan. Saying "vegan diet" by itself
| is pretty meaningless.
| ianai wrote:
| This is incorrect. B12 is made from bacteria widespread in the
| "wild environment ", but almost completely washed it of the
| modern diet. The only reason non-vegans don't typically have to
| worry about B12 is that cyanocobalamin or other B12s are added
| into common foods. There's an argument that cyanocobalamin is bad
| for you though as your liver creates cyanide in processing it for
| use in your body. Here's the quote from the article.
|
| """ One of the most well-known challenges for vegans is getting
| enough vitamin B12, which is only found in animal products like
| eggs and meat. """
| amriksohata wrote:
| According to the game changers documentary, even meat like
| chicken has to have added vitamins like b12 which is the only
| reason meat eaters get that extra vitamin, so supplementing is
| for all
| frandroid wrote:
| > As for Gandhi, he eventually abandoned his illicit relationship
| with meat, and went back to vegetarianism.
|
| That was a commitment he took for his mother when he went to
| study law in England. While today the UK is a hotbed of veg*nism,
| back then Gandhi had trouble eating well while being veg in
| London, and started seeking out other vegetarians. He eventually
| found a vegetarian society, and it is through that society that
| he became exposed to Henry David Thoreau and his Civil
| Disobedience.
|
| The rest, as they say, is world history.
| cgh wrote:
| Great to see they mentioned creatine and carnosine. Creatine in
| particular is notable for its proven effectiveness as an athletic
| supplement but it has a host of other, lesser-known benefits[0].
| It's only found in animals, although your body does produce
| baseline amounts from other amino acids.
|
| 0. https://examine.com/supplements/creatine/
| theatraine wrote:
| Kombucha is a great vegan source of B12, one of the key nutrients
| mentioned in the article. The B12 in kombucha actually comes from
| the culture itself.
| frandroid wrote:
| Neat!
| jnaddef wrote:
| TL;DR There is no scientific study proving one way or the other
| and whether you are vegan or not if you do not care about the
| quality and diversity of what you eat it will probably affect
| your body and your brain.
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