[HN Gopher] Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in th...
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Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States
Author : chmaynard
Score : 385 points
Date : 2020-01-30 18:11 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
| zkms wrote:
| i have been using Apple Maps exclusively for the past year (in
| Los Angeles and Denver/Boulder areas) with no issue/problems.
| Google Maps is cluttered with an ugly phantasmagoria of adverts
| and after a while of not needing to use it, i just deleted it
| from all my devices. The only feature i find myself wanting that
| Google Maps has that Apple Maps lacks is an "offline maps"
| feature.
| toadkicker wrote:
| I can't believe on this page "Users" exists. What happened to
| Apple's brand language? "Now you can" would make more sense to
| the reader.
| bobbyi_settv wrote:
| This is a press release in their "Newsroom" section. They don't
| say "you" because they are describing what users can do, not
| what reporters covering this can do
| mistrial9 wrote:
| it seems that OSM is a data pivot point -- Apple and Google are
| directly competing with OSM (super-walled-garden-data) while
| Facebook, Microsoft and who-knows-who-defense are augmenting OSM
| as fast as possible
| reaperducer wrote:
| I'm OK with this. I think the three-way competition is
| improving all of the products better than a two-way (Apple v.
| Google) competition would.
| rmc wrote:
| > Apple and Google are directly competing with OSM
|
| Apple Maps _is_ OpenStreetMap in many countries. In Denmark
| it's used for turn-by-turn navigation even.
|
| (Source: Talk by Apple employee at the OSM'a 'State of the Map'
| conference 2018
| https://2018.stateofthemap.org/2018/T081-Working_with_the_Co...
| )
| mistrial9 wrote:
| this is interesting of course - but, the topic post here is
| "Brand New Maps, North America Only" ?
| taylorlapeyre wrote:
| If Apple could bring bicycle directions into the app, I would
| probably never use Google Maps again.
| Spearchucker wrote:
| HERE WeGo (erstwhile Nokia Maps) does bicycle directions.
| Unbelievably brilliant in Europe with pretty much all cycle
| paths included.
| ed312 wrote:
| Any idea why they haven't / are there plans to add cycle routes
| in the future? It seems like a glaring hole in functionality
| (more than "street view")
| graeme wrote:
| I suspect it may be california-centrism. Bikes are a vital
| mode in Europe and many other parts of the road. In
| california car is king, bikes are either recreational or for
| hardcore commutes.
|
| You can see similar assumptions in how Siri is designed.
| ("Users only speak one language at a time") or the
| effectiveness of multilanguage support in autocorrect. Most
| people outside north america use their own language + english
| fairly frequently. At least those in apple's customer
| demographic.
| toasterlovin wrote:
| Or maybe they're busy rolling this massive update out
| (they've barely completed the US and have yet to finish
| Europe).
| klodolph wrote:
| Sure, there's plenty of California-centrism, but from where
| I'm sitting, a multilingual Siri sounds like a massive
| technical challenge. I also remember how long it took
| Google to roll out bike directions, and just how awful it
| was at first, when it was rolling out.
|
| Bicycle directions are more challenging than directions for
| cars, public transit, and walking. I'm just speaking from
| my own personal experience, here. In every city I've lived
| in, I've had to test out different bicycle commuting routes
| until I found one which I liked. Walking and driving I will
| just take the fastest route and be done with it. Everyone
| has different preferences for bicycling for how much
| elevation climb they can handle, how much traffic they
| tolerate, etc.
| bobbylarrybobby wrote:
| Shits hard yo
| dang wrote:
| It is, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to
| Hacker News.
| s3r3nity wrote:
| It's a super tough problem. Even Google Maps messages you
| that it's a feature in progress (paraphrasing of course), and
| they've had years of a head start on this.
| Invictus0 wrote:
| Would you mind elaborating on why this is such a difficult
| problem?
| penagwin wrote:
| I think you ninja'd me, I just made a comment
| contemplating some of the different challenges of bike
| navigation.
| penagwin wrote:
| You know that got me thinking, biking rules vary far more
| than for cars.
|
| Depending on your location, pedestrian traffic, streets,
| street traffic, etc. It might be best for you to be on the
| sidewalk. Or maybe you should instead be on the road since
| the road is only 25mph and there's pedestrians on the
| sidewalk. Maybe there's a bike lane, maybe there isn't.
| Maybe a town has a law saying you HAVE to bike on the road.
|
| Are you allowed to cut through parking lots? Is it a dirt
| road? Can everyone's bikes handle dirt roads? What if it
| just rained, cars can still cross a wet dirt road, but I'd
| rather take a different route if possible on a bike.
|
| That's not including the terrain challenges (which google
| seems to incorporate). I'd far rather take a route that
| takes an extra 5 minutes and is basically level vs a route
| that saves time but requires you to go down and uphill.
| Heck even wind conditions change can change the "optimal
| route" in some cases.
| criddell wrote:
| > Maybe a town has a law saying you HAVE to bike on the
| road.
|
| I think that's usually the case.
|
| This page [1] says:
|
| > The law in most areas of the country require bicycles
| to follow the same rules of the road as other motor
| vehicles. In essence, riding your bike down the sidewalk
| is the same as if you hopped the curb and started rolling
| it in your car.
|
| [1] https://www.campfirecycling.com/blog/2008/07/09/top-5
| -rules-...
| penagwin wrote:
| Not always though, for example here in Michigan [0]. At
| least around here some of the streets are NOT the kind
| you want to ride your bike on, and there's only a few
| pedestrians on the sidewalk (so it's not a big deal even
| if you stopped and walked your bike around them).
|
| > Bicycles may be ridden upon a sidewalk, but cyclists
| must yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and are
| required to give an audible signal before overtaking and
| passing a pedestrian.
|
| And to make it even more complicated:
|
| > Further, official traffic control devices or local
| ordinances may restrict bicycles on sidewalks in some
| areas.
|
| [0] https://michiganbikelaw.com/michigan-rules-of-the-
| road/
| SamBam wrote:
| Doesn't seem that different. Basically, you're expected
| to be on the road and obey road rules, but you're allowed
| on the side walk if the local ordinance doesn't ban it
| and you give right-of-way and a wide berth to
| pedestrians.
|
| i.e. riding on the sidewalk is more of an exception, and
| is typically allowed for kids.
|
| This is pretty common, I believe. I looked up my local
| (Cambridge MA) laws and they say the same thing (and have
| a list of the sidewalks you can't bike on), and New York
| state looks the same.
|
| In the dot.ny.gov FAQs, they explicitly say that sidewalk
| riding is legal unless posted, but is specifically
| intended more for young children.
| MayeulC wrote:
| Well, I'm quite happy with Openstreetmap's directions for
| biking (I mostly use OSMand, but there are other
| apps/routers).
|
| They have elevation, private/public roads, road surface,
| bike lanes, etc, and routers can take it into account. Of
| course, that doesn't really take into account varying
| laws, but that might be reflected in the maps themselves
| (private/public places, bikes allowed/disallowed, etc).
|
| See also https://www.opencyclemap.org
| Lio wrote:
| Openstreermap drives me crazy.
|
| They use the designations "town" and "city" as a way of
| ranking places in terms of importance.
|
| Here in the UK that designation is almost arbitrary.
|
| There are several large towns with greater population and
| navigational importance than surrounding smaller cities.
|
| All the commercial map providers, including Apple Maps,
| grok that. Only opensteetmap seems still rigidly to the
| town < city thing. Would be much better if they could use
| population instead.
| Doctor_Fegg wrote:
| OSM does record population, and many sites that use OSM
| data parse that information. I think you're overstating
| the importance of the demo stylesheet on
| openstreetmap.org, which really isn't significant: OSM is
| all about recording factual map data and making it freely
| available.
| briandear wrote:
| In the UK, the City designation is political and not
| based on size. So I agree, a worthless proxy for size.
| taylorlapeyre wrote:
| I think you could release a simplified version of biking
| directions that isn't perfect, but better than nothing:
|
| - For a limited number of cities, determine which streets
| the city lists as having separated bike lanes, painted
| bike lanes, or city-designated "bike friendly" streets.
| Mark them on the map appropriately in a different map
| overlay (or on the transit overlay)
|
| - Bicycle directions prioritize those streets.
|
| It's not perfect, but this would be enough for me to use
| the app.
| jschwartzi wrote:
| Painted bike lanes are really unreliable, but otherwise
| that sounds like a great idea.
|
| Most of the painted bike lanes I see in suburban
| Washington are painted in some of the least safe bike
| routes. There's a ton of bike lanes that are just painted
| along major thoroughfares with actual top speeds of 40 or
| 45 miles per hour.
|
| They should really do it by speed limit and presence of
| features that obstruct car traffic. Streets that are a
| pain in the ass to drive on are the best streets to bike
| on.
|
| Even some of the Bike Routes in Seattle are on roads that
| I wouldn't feel safe biking on because traffic typically
| clocks at 10 or 15 MPH higher than the speed limit around
| the curves on the route.
| WorldMaker wrote:
| > Depending on your location, pedestrian traffic,
| streets, street traffic, etc. It might be best for you to
| be on the sidewalk. ... Maybe a town has a law saying you
| HAVE to bike on the road.
|
| Depending on location indeed. The majority of US states
| still make it blanket illegal to bicycle on a sidewalk,
| codified into early highway laws. (It's also probable the
| last time those laws were effectively enforced was
| somewhere in the middle of the 20th Century.) There are
| states where it is illegal, but individual counties or
| cities (or strange in-betweens like townships) override
| their state laws and allow it. I don't know of any
| examples of the opposite where a state allows it, but
| individual towns forbid it, but I wouldn't be surprised.
| penagwin wrote:
| I made a comment to a sibling with an example from
| Michigan. I won't copy paste the whole comment but
| Michigan allows biking on sidewalks but you have to yield
| to pedestrians. But individual towns may add their own
| restrictions.
|
| https://michiganbikelaw.com/michigan-rules-of-the-road/
| Doctor_Fegg wrote:
| There are of course plenty of bike routing sites online,
| generally based on OpenStreetMap source data.
|
| I run cycle.travel (https://cycle.travel/map) which offers
| super-fast bike directions in Europe, North America and
| Australia/NZ. It has a number of unique features under the
| hood that I think lift the quality of its routes above
| other similar sites (but then I would say that). Always
| happy to entertain offers if Apple want to buy me...
| zachrose wrote:
| Apple should just buy Wahoo.
| skrause wrote:
| What I hate most about Apple Maps is that reports about incorrect
| data never seem to go anywhere. Apple Maps thinks that the road
| that leads to my house is a one-way street. It's not. But because
| of this error Apple Maps always wants to send me on a 5 minutes
| detour if I try to use it to navigate home.
|
| I've reported the problem twice but never got an answer or a
| correction. In fact _all_ problems I 've ever reported in the
| Maps app were completely ignored.
|
| This is why I don't use Apple Maps.
| aendruk wrote:
| What we need is a map that's organized like Wikipedia--anyone
| can immediately contribute to it.
| dizzydot wrote:
| Like Open Street Maps?
| oflannabhra wrote:
| The turnaround time is actually one of the biggest reasons
| Apple under took this initiative.
|
| Previously, issues were reported to Apple, who then had to vend
| them back to their data sources (TomTom amongst others). It was
| up to the data sources to implement the changes.
|
| Now, issues reported to Apple can be immediately acted upon, or
| compared to other data, or reviewed by employees, or even can
| be marked for validation during another "drive-by".
|
| > "There's also the matter of corrections, updates and changes
| entering a long loop of submission to validation to update when
| you're dealing with external partners. The Maps team would have
| to be able to correct roads, pathways and other updating
| features in days or less, not months. Not to mention the
| potential competitive advantages it could gain from building
| and updating traffic data from hundreds of millions of iPhones,
| rather than relying on partner data." from [0]
|
| [0] - https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/29/apple-is-rebuilding-
| maps-f...
| splittingTimes wrote:
| So TomTom lost Apple as a customer?
| ksec wrote:
| So Apple actually own the Data in the new Map? Or by that I
| mean Apple it itself it also part of the Data Source?
| oflannabhra wrote:
| Yes, they originated all of the "Look-Around" data
| (equivalent to Street View), all of the 3D data, and much,
| if not all, of the road data. I believe they purchase
| satellite data. They built up their own fleet of vans.
| Today marks the last section of the country to switch over
| to the new system.
| kccqzy wrote:
| Yes. Basically the map in the United States is all Apple's
| data now, except for certain things like POI photos and
| reviewers (Yelp).
| gnicholas wrote:
| > _What I hate most about Apple Maps is that reports about
| incorrect data never seem to go anywhere._
|
| Wow, I've had the opposite experience. I've only used it a
| handful of times, but when I've reported incorrect phone
| numbers and such, it's always been fixed in just a few days,
| and I receive a notification through the app that they've done
| it. I found the experience to be impressively fast and
| painless. Sorry to hear it's not that way for everyone!
|
| Where are you located, and what version of the OS were you
| running when you reported these things? For reference, I live
| near Palo Alto, and it's possible they are more responsive to
| requests here. I have only reported issues recently, with iOS
| 12/13.
| pfranz wrote:
| Other comments mentioned Apple had issues correcting
| streets/routes because they had to be corrected downstream
| (they licensed from places like TomTom). Part of the goal of
| this update is to bring it all in-house improving the
| turnaround time.
|
| I wonder if your corrections, like phone numbers, we're on
| Apple's end and much easier to correct?
| [deleted]
| skrause wrote:
| > _Where are you located, and what version of the OS were you
| running when you reported these things?_
|
| I live in Germany and I think I was running iOS 12 when I
| reported the issues.
|
| Maybe Apple only looks at reports in the USA...
| Invictus0 wrote:
| Google maps doesn't even need you to report anything. I used to
| make a forbidden left turn every day on my way to work with
| Google maps running. After a while, it just updated the
| directions to include my bad driving: no report necessary.
| bobbylarrybobby wrote:
| Are you sure that no one reported that change?
| aabhay wrote:
| How can you be sure that it was automatic? Maybe someone just
| reported that turn?
| dkonofalski wrote:
| Are you sure this isn't selective bias? Google and Apple both
| probably prioritize corrections like this based on the number
| of people reporting them. If you've reported this twice and no
| one else has, they have little incentive to prioritize this
| request over reports from more busy roadways.
| tssva wrote:
| About a year ago I noticed that for some reason Google Maps
| occasionally reported my house being 3 blocks from where it is.
| None of the other houses on my street had this issue. I filed a
| correction with Google expecting a long delay for it to be
| resolved. I received notification in 45 minutes to an hour that
| the issue had been resolved.
| beering wrote:
| For Apple Maps this is also country-dependent, since different
| countries/regions use different map data sources. The
| turnaround time for regions covered by Apple's own data would
| be fastest to change, I assume, followed by OpenStreetMap, with
| third-party vendor (e.g. TomTom) being the slowest. But I don't
| know how much OSM and TomTom are still used in Apple Maps.
| zippergz wrote:
| This is absolutely true, but it's not unique to Apple Maps.
| I've had an issue with the major road near my house in Google
| Maps for over three years, where it thinks a certain stretch is
| either absent or impassible. It shows it on the visual map, but
| it will go to astounding lengths to route you around that one-
| block stretch of (perfectly fine) road. I have reported it MANY
| times, and nothing has ever changed.
| chipperyman573 wrote:
| I report things on GMaps all the time and it usually updates
| the maps within minutes (I get an email)
|
| I'm also a local guide though so that might have something to
| do with it
| icebraining wrote:
| Same here, though it's usually a few hours, not minutes.
| I'm not in the US, tough, it may be that there are
| different review teams for different areas.
| FireBeyond wrote:
| I have something like that too. There's a one block section
| that didn't have a road through it due to a water tower, but
| now (as in 10 years ago) does. Apple Maps routes me around it
| constantly. Despite error submissions _and_ the trip data
| that they must have, showing multitudes of vehicles
| apparently driving through a field to continue on the road...
| no change.
| m4rtink wrote:
| That's the nice thing with OpenStreetMap & mapping services
| using data from it.
|
| You can just register to OSM and fix the data and that's it.
| The OSM interface will update almost instantly while services
| based on OSM data will get the fix once they do their next
| data update.
| briandear wrote:
| What's to protect against false/bad/malicious data?
| psadri wrote:
| Google and Apple should be able to infer the presence/status
| of roads based on telemetry from all the phones out there in
| the world. If a bunch of people regularly pass through a path
| at a car like speed, it's likely a road.
| ASalazarMX wrote:
| > In fact all problems I've ever reported in the Maps app were
| completely ignored.
|
| I call this "minimalist customer service".
| y-c-o-m-b wrote:
| I submitted a map correction to Google maps a few years back.
| They had our satellite office listed a quarter mile from where
| it actually was. I gave them the correct place with
| screenshots, verification I worked for the company, and arrows
| pointing to the exact location along with their own street view
| of the actual building. It took well over a month for them to
| respond and they still got it wrong. Now it shows us at the
| building two doors down from us, but at least that's better
| than a quarter mile.
| handedness wrote:
| That's odd, as every correction I've submitted has been
| applied.
|
| On average, Google is significantly faster at processing them,
| though.
| city41 wrote:
| I have the same problem, except for me, when entering my
| address the resulting address the app chooses is over 30
| minutes away (my neighborhood is about 18 months old).
|
| I never use Apple maps, but I have found pretty much everyone
| else does. My address not being in there has become a huge
| hassle.
|
| I also submitted a correction in the app to no avail. So I
| tweeted at AppleSupport and they assigned me a dedicated
| support person to handle my "case". It's been weeks now. The
| support person keeps calling me to tell me "no word yet from
| the engineering team".
|
| Thankfully I'm moving soon, but this headache applies to all
| the new houses in this neighborhood.
| pier25 wrote:
| Contrast that with Google Maps. I've submitted multiple
| corrections over the years and 90% have been live in just a few
| hours.
| privateSFacct wrote:
| Agreed - I'm curious how they are able to globally deploy so
| quickly where others (apple / tom tom) take FOREVER to
| update.
|
| Do they just have someone ground truth with satellite and
| street view? They do have that data for most of the
| corrections I make (which are frankly rare).
| ceejayoz wrote:
| Waze has volunteer local editors - I've hit "report map
| issue" and gotten messages from them with questions about
| what I was reporting. I wonder if Google leverages them
| internally.
| pfranz wrote:
| Are temporary closures automated? I feel like in Waze I
| gave them enough information when reporting about things
| like construction or flooding that they could be
| integrated almost immediately--similar to road hazards or
| stopped vehicles.
| [deleted]
| reaperducer wrote:
| _What I hate most about Apple Maps is that reports about
| incorrect data never seem to go anywhere._
|
| I wonder if this is geographic-specific.
|
| I regularly report errors in Nevada, California, Arizona, and
| most recently Colorado, and they've always been corrected
| within a few weeks. I get an alert on my devices when it
| happens.
|
| Sometimes they revert and I report them again, but I don't
| recall ever having a map error report ignored.
| sixstringtheory wrote:
| Decent cosmetic upgrade. I just opened it to check out my home
| though and the road names are shifted halfway across the screen.
| Some are duplicated: both a name on the street, and then the name
| again out in the middle of nowhere. Guess there are a few
| glitches but those should be quick to clear up.
|
| Along with cycling directions like others are asking for, I would
| love for them to add multi-destination navigation. It was really
| nice being able to make a detour to an ad-hoc location while
| navigating in GMaps, or plan a route with multiple stops ahead of
| time.
| ilikehurdles wrote:
| You can do so with Apple Maps. I do it regularly, but
| unfortunately you can only add it as an intermediate
| destination when en route to a destination. You can't pre-plan
| a multi-point trip which I feel like is a big oversight. I've
| wanted to estimate multi-day road trips and it doesn't seem
| possible with Apple Maps.
| sixstringtheory wrote:
| Wow, I didn't know this was possible. To anyone else who
| doesn't know this, while you're navigating, tapping or
| dragging up on the toolbar on the bottom of the screen causes
| it to expand and show a few options you can tap to add to
| your route. Unfortunately it's just a few preselected
| destination types, instead of a new search.
| ilikehurdles wrote:
| Hm, it seems different and more limited than the CarPlay
| UI. Yeah they really need to expand this feature. I thought
| you could have arbitrary search, but maybe that's on via
| CarPlay when stationary. Certainly there were more
| categories of things on CarPlay.
| pauljonas wrote:
| I'd been using Waze for a couple of years, and initially it was
| far superior to Apple Maps. But a few months back, I got really
| frustrated with it because it led me down some closed roads &
| ended up doubling my commute time home from work that day. I'd
| also been noting how off it was on its estimates on when I'd get
| to my destination. And I was also perturbed by it not knowing the
| back street entrance to my work site, though I've "paved it" on
| multiple occasions, it it remains uncorrected.
|
| So I switched over to Apple Maps and started tracking how often
| it is off in its estimates (& also trip duration) -- I have like
| a commute that can be anywhere from 40 minutes to 90 minutes or
| more, depending on traffic -- and I was pleasantly surprised that
| it got me to destination within +/-5 minutes of when it said it
| would and that the journey was taking less time that with Waze.
| It also knew about the back entrance of my work site and was able
| to route better with some of the smaller side streets in the
| neighborhood too.
|
| I've always preferred the Apple Maps UI -- it shows all the lanes
| at top, stoplights are more prominently shown, though the
| speedometer on Waze was nice, plus Waze alerted you to police
| presence too. It gives you a buffer when wishing to change route
| (Waze frequently would change the route and instruct me to take
| an exit that was 300 feet away when I was in the furthest lane
| from the exit side) to check off and is totally ad-free, and
| incorporated into iOS (yeah, Apple monopoly and all, true).
| oflannabhra wrote:
| I seem to remember someone posting their results of testing
| Google Maps, Apple Maps, and Waze for ETA accuracy, and what
| you describe was also what they found: Apple Maps was the most
| accurate, Google Maps was optimistic, but accurate, Waze
| basically reported the best case scenario. Edit: found the
| original [0]
|
| I've long thought that Waze creates the illusion of saving
| massive amounts of time, when its benefits are marginal
| (although real). I know I personally prefer an active commute
| to one waiting in traffic, even if travel times are identical.
| Waze seems to maximize for the latter.
|
| [0] - https://arturgrabow.ski/2018/02/19/navigation-apps/amp/
| SamBam wrote:
| Google Maps also got the person there 5% faster than Apple
| Maps, in that study.
|
| This really does call for a larger study, though. It would be
| nice to see how the error bars and potential differences come
| out across different trip times, and different drivers.
| K0SM0S wrote:
| You'd probably end with significantly different results
| based on country. Somehow the underlying logic of mapping
| AI seems to be more-or-less of a fit for national road
| systems -- for instance in Europe, with lots of
| discrepancies between borders, it's really hit or miss: in
| France and Germany I end up on stupid country roads to save
| 2 minutes on a 2h drive, but that seldom happens in the
| Netherlands (granted they have a great road
| infrastructure). Switzerland is a mess too.
|
| My intuition (listening to AI and DL podcasts) is that they
| just train too-general US-based (or evaluated or reinforced
| more specifically) models. Anyhow it's a disappointing
| situation that e.g. Google maps makes way more mistakes
| today than it did 5 years ago (but it also does more
| overall, I guess it's a trade-off, e.g. now it's great for
| public transportation in large enough cities).
| Swizec wrote:
| I remember using some car's built-in GPS once and it
| wanted me to take every freeway exit and get right back
| on after. Because it decided that saves time/distance.
|
| Maps really need a "not worth it" features for tiny
| optimizations. I'd often prefer a slightly slower route
| that's less work to drive.
| mumblemumble wrote:
| I never really got into Waze; once I get to know my way
| around a city I'm inclined to just get around the oldschool
| way, sticking to arterial roads and all that.
|
| I also used to work for a company where I occasionally
| visited an office where Waze was really popular with the
| folks who worked there. And found that that, when we were
| meeting up somewhere halfway across town after work, I would
| typically get there before the Waze users about as often as
| they got there before me. So, not really much of a time
| saver. Judging from my experiences on the occasions that
| someone gave me a ride somewhere, I was probably having a
| more pleasant, albeit lower-tech, driving experience, too.
|
| If I had to hazard a guess, I'd imagine Waze has a law of
| large numbers problem: The sample size they have for
| estimating the travel time along any given stretch of side
| road is smaller, and there's also a lot more ways to route
| oneself on the side roads, and those two factors compound to
| mean a relatively high chance that at least one of the routes
| Waze considers has been assigned a grossly over-optimistic
| travel time estimate.
| pauljonas wrote:
| After using Waze for over a couple of years, I really started
| getting the impression that I was just a data pawn in a bunch
| of A/B tests -- like send this one down that route, send that
| one down the other way & see what happens.
| mattkevan wrote:
| Absolutely sure Google Maps A/B tests routes too.
|
| Even when sitting next to each other in the same car,
| Google Maps suggests radically different routes to the same
| destination on my wife's phone than it does on mine, often
| with a 15+ min difference in arrival time. It must be
| testing different routing algorithms as otherwise they
| should be the same.
| sgillen wrote:
| Could also be an optimal routing thing too. If google
| maps sends everyone down the same path it might become
| too congested. Especially if the route is a detour around
| construction or and accident or something.
| zymhan wrote:
| The flipside to me is that Waze will send lots of people
| down the "time saving" path, which is usually a small road,
| and kinda defeats the purpose.
|
| I think Waze only really saved time when it wasn't popular.
| Once everyone takes the same shortcut, you're back where
| you started.
| dmix wrote:
| Waze takes more risks, that's for sure. It's still the best
| one if you know the area you're driving and are willing to
| ignore the maps.
|
| I still use Google Maps when I'm unfamiliar with the drive
| for the reasons you mention (ie, it needlessly took me down
| a busy grid-locked road once).
|
| But otherwise nothing beats Waze for the additional
| features like construction and police reporting plus it
| does a good job of finding fast routes far more often than
| not.
| killjoywashere wrote:
| I wonder if those who are more likely to measure something
| like this are more likely to drive closer to the speed limit?
| I tend to drive fast and find Google gets me there a couple
| minutes before ETA, Apple gets me there way before ETA, and
| Waze just overloads me with more information than I want.
| usaar333 wrote:
| I personally use Waze over Google maps for navigation during
| commute times as it has the advantage of routing with HOV
| lanes. Does Apple maps support this? (I'm on Android)
| CPLX wrote:
| I love the idea of switching from Waze, which is increasingly
| frustrating and wrong.
|
| The problem is that having the speed traps and radar sites on
| there is just too crucial to give up. I've never found a
| replacement that does that.
| mjrbrennan wrote:
| The speed traps and radar are now showing up in Google Maps
| in Australia for me it's great and very accurate. I have no
| idea who puts the markers there.
| _xerxes_ wrote:
| Google Maps has speed limits, police and other warnings. Been
| there for at least a few months now. Not sure how accurate
| they are as I doubt they have as much engagement/reporting as
| Waze.
| grosswait wrote:
| Doesn't this info come from Waze?
| forty wrote:
| Maybe it's a good opportunity for you to start following
| speed limits and stop risking everyone's life :)
| flyingfences wrote:
| Driving over the posted limit is not dangerous on most
| roads.
| kazinator wrote:
| For any value of "over"? Strapping on a rocket engine and
| going 900 mph meets the logical definition of "over the
| limit".
|
| Driving within a reasonable margin above the limit is
| safe on most roads, under good surface and visibility
| conditions.
| mdavidn wrote:
| Driving over the posted speed limit can appear safe when
| it definitely is not.
|
| My morning commute involves a blind left turn out of a
| residential street. Cars parked on the curb obstruct my
| view of oncoming traffic in the right lane. This isn't a
| problem when that traffic observes the 35 mph speed
| limit. I've had far too many close calls with self-
| centered jerks driving 55 mph in that lane. Sporty sedans
| are impossible to see over a row of parked cars.
| CPLX wrote:
| Tempting.
| victor106 wrote:
| I agree with this. I use both Waze and Google maps. I opened
| Apple maps after a long time a few days back and i was suprised
| not only with the effcient directions but also the maps and the
| fact that i can clearly see the name of the road.
| bbatsell wrote:
| This lines up with my experience. About a year and some change
| ago, it was undeniable to me that Apple Maps had become
| markedly superior at directions than Google Maps or Waze. GM/W
| would routinely just be very off and give me the alert to make
| a turn as I was passing it at speed. Apple has made one howler
| in the past year or so, directing me to a closed road --
| recovering from that took about 45 minutes because it was in
| rush hour at a bad spot -- but I looked afterward and I'm
| pretty sure Google Maps would have given me the same route.
| Apple Maps' directions for which lane to be in for an upcoming
| stoplight or exit are also far more accurate and helpful for
| me.
| ra7 wrote:
| I use Apple Maps, but I still think Google Maps is superior
| at directions only because Google offers more alternate
| routes and Apple sticks to the usual routes almost all the
| time. I also think Google is better at updating accidents on
| highways and ETA calculation.
|
| But Apple Maps has one massive advantage which is the reason
| I ditched Google Maps and that is the UX. I love how simple
| it is to read the maps. Important information is shown
| prominently during navigation and the UI feels super clean.
| Google Maps, on the other hands, feels really cluttered and
| slow. It takes a good few seconds just to see the map after
| you open the app because they are loading all the unnecessary
| BS like new restaurants, nearby events etc.
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| Something I still miss in Apple Maps is any way to plot out and
| measure distances. I like to take walks to keep my step count up
| on my fitness tracker and I use Google Maps to plan a route using
| their distance measuring feature. Would love to do that on my
| iPad but alas, no such luck.
| gingericha wrote:
| This reminds me of the individual who was doing an in-depth
| comparison of the history of Google Maps, Apple Maps, and how far
| ahead Google Maps was. They dove into comparisons for walking
| paths, "activity hot spots", green spaces, 3D mapping of
| buildings, etc. Does anyone remember the post and maybe has a
| link?
| londons_explore wrote:
| This is what you were thinking of:
|
| https://www.justinobeirne.com/google-maps-moat
| gingericha wrote:
| Yes, this was the one! Would be interesting to see an update
| here as it looks like this was from 2017
| ribosometronome wrote:
| He did another write up when the data updates started:
| https://www.justinobeirne.com/new-apple-maps
| joelkek wrote:
| Justin O'Beirne. https://www.justinobeirne.com/cartography-
| comparison
| maelito wrote:
| Open source alternative : https://benmaps.fr
| nikodunk wrote:
| I jumped on this post, thinking "awesome! they've definitely
| added bike routing! Now i can finally switch from Google Maps.".
| Unfortunately - still no dice.
| ogre_codes wrote:
| This is the one feature Apple Maps lacks which I miss most.
| Generally not a problem where I live, but occasionally I'd like
| a little help finding my way on the bike.
| bdcravens wrote:
| Google Maps appears to do a better job of mixed mode (for
| instance, I have to drive about 15 minutes to get to the Park and
| Ride to hop on the Houston Metro; Apple Maps says no route
| available, whereas Google calculates that first leg)
| aresant wrote:
| In the midst of the world (rightly) turning on big tech's abuses,
| efforts like these make me optimistic about our industry on a
| whole and help me recover some of the enthusiasm that led me into
| tech in the first place.
|
| I love how this effort relies on & amplifies what were before
| relatively obscure specialties
|
| The mapping wars elevate cartographers, mapping specialists, GIS
| data nerds, mobile computing / compression phds, GPS parsing
| engineers, ex-dod intertial navigation specialists, etc.
|
| And rallied them around a massive, insanely big problem of
| mapping and organizing the entire physical world in real time and
| relying on consumer grade hardware to drive incredible fidelity.
|
| It's humbling and really cool to see people that have dedicated
| their lives to these disciplines that were somewhat relegated to
| specialized use cases enter the "rockstar" stadium to deliver
| something that legitimately changes the way that billions of
| humans interact with the world
| wwweston wrote:
| > It's humbling and really cool to see [cartographers, mapping
| specialists, GIS data nerds, mobile computing / compression
| phds, GPS parsing engineers, ex-dod intertial navigation
| specialists, etc.] enter the "rockstar" stadium to deliver
| something that legitimately changes the way that billions of
| humans interact with the world
|
| The thing is, they did this before. But the interaction just
| wasn't direct. All of those people were doing important work
| for government and business organizations wherever getting
| around and knowing where you and other things are mattered, and
| improving the quality of services.
|
| Now we get first-hand experience with their work, which is
| fantastic. Map apps are probably the thing that most enticed me
| onto a smart phone and the thing I'd have a hardest time giving
| up.
|
| I just hope that every time we remember the before and after
| for these amazing conveniences, we remember that all these
| disciplines and professionals were important beforehand, and
| that there are others that are woven quietly into public and
| private life. Because there's a lot of voices right now that
| seem interested in burning down institutions and not enough
| curiosity in what those institutions have done for us.
| theboat wrote:
| As much as I agree with your general sentiment, Apple Maps,
| like many of Apple's mobile apps, gets a boost from Apple's
| anti-competitive practices. It's utterly ridiculous that we can
| remove default apps from iOS, including Maps and Safari, but we
| can't set new default apps to replace them.
|
| If we ever get serious about increasing competition in the tech
| sector, an easy place to start is letting users set default
| browsers, maps, and email clients on their devices.
| tssva wrote:
| Apple won't even let you remove the Chess app from macOS
| without disabling system integrity protection.
| hyperbovine wrote:
| > letting users set default browsers, maps, and email clients
| on their devices.
|
| This is so disingenuous. It's called Android. People hate it.
| Although the walled garden may offend you personally, the
| market at large has spoken.
| BlewisJS wrote:
| Are you implying people hate Android and that iOS is way
| bigger in terms of market share?
| pgodzin wrote:
| Of all the options to hate Android, having the option to
| change default clients is probably pretty low...
|
| It's probably enough to make anyone switch to Android, but
| it can still be a welcome addition to iOS
| dkonofalski wrote:
| Isn't that kind of self-defeating, though? Like the ACA
| without the individual mandate? The only way this works is if
| people use the apps on the iPhone. There's nothing stopping
| you from using Google Maps on an iPhone but, in order for the
| tech to improve while remaining strong with privacy, is for
| Apple to utilize their existing technology. Also, I disagree
| that it's anti-competitive. Users are always allowed and able
| to switch to another device/ecosystem.
| judge2020 wrote:
| It's extremely similar to the microsoft IE issue, users
| should be able to set a default web browser.
| criddell wrote:
| The difference is that Microsoft dominated the market.
| Apple has a relatively small slice of the smartphone pie.
|
| If Google restricted the user in the same way, that would
| arguably be closer to the Microsoft situation because
| their marketshare is 2x Apple's.
| airstrike wrote:
| I think that depends on how you define "market".
| Globally, sure, but in the US that's not the case
|
| https://www.statista.com/statistics/620805/smartphone-
| sales-...
| ASalazarMX wrote:
| How about we bake in competitive openness regadless of
| company size? Why is it right to build corrals as long as
| yours is not the biggest?
| zepto wrote:
| I think this is fine, but only if we also bake in all of
| the things that Apple has achieved using their dominance.
|
| - Strong encryption - Privacy Protections - Not using
| user data
| robin_reala wrote:
| Because the user has an easy choice. Monopolies are not a
| problem in themselves, it's when that monopoly is
| leveraged to crush competitors out of the overall market.
| riversflow wrote:
| I seriously don't understand why this sentiment(not
| yours) is so prevalent on HN. If we want competition in
| the tech sector, it seems to me that government
| enforcement of modulization would only hinder such
| competition. Why should a large corp's web dev team care
| about mobile safari if they can just write on their page,
| "it seems you are using safari on mobile, we recommend
| downloading mobile chrome(AppStore hyperlink) and setting
| it to default, as of $PREVIOUSYEAR we will no longer
| support it."? To me as things currently stand(that is
| Apple is not a monopoly), Apple's walled garden approach
| absolutely embodies the spirit of a free market.
| Consumers have the choice of products and the defaultness
| of iPhones is fairly widely understood at the market
| level, best I can tell. Anecdotally of course, but almost
| all the l people I've talked to who buy an iPhone state
| that they buy it because they "don't want to think about
| their phone" that seems fair to me.
| dkonofalski wrote:
| Exactly! And, to my point that's being voted down, it
| really only works the way it's intended if they have the
| ability to control each step of the ecosystem. If they
| allow people to replace experiences at different points
| then it's not possible to ensure the consistency that
| Apple's really known for.
| tssva wrote:
| "Users are always allowed and able to switch to another
| device/ecosystem."
|
| Google would like you to have a discussion with the EU on
| their behalf.
| dkonofalski wrote:
| Google's market share globally dwarfs Apple's. That
| comparison isn't the same at all. If Google pushes their
| own products on consumers using the power it has
| established in that market, it's a monopoly and the EU is
| 100% in the right in enforcing restrictions to that. It's
| exactly the situation Microsoft found itself in during
| the 90s.
| kylemh wrote:
| and then, even if we could set the default browser, having a
| webkit-Chrome is stupid also...
| t223 wrote:
| and webkit firefox
| skizm wrote:
| One specific thing that bothers me is that Microsoft got in
| trouble for bundling IE with Windows, but apple doesn't get
| in trouble when they block all browser apps that don't use
| Safari under the hood. How is this different? I want Google
| and Mozilla (and anyone else) to be able to make iOS browser
| apps from scratch if they want. It wouldn't be an issue if
| you could sideload apps easily, but the app store is really
| the only legit way to get apps on your non-jailbroken iPhone.
| jonfw wrote:
| The big differentiator here is that Microsoft had a
| dominant monopoly on PCs. Apple is a huge huge player in
| the smartphone space, but they're still in no danger of
| having a majority of the market.
| krrrh wrote:
| Because the DOJ suit against MS was misguided and
| unnecessary. It had little effect on eroding Microsoft's
| supposed stranglehold on the browser market. When browser
| monoculture began to really hurt consumers and innovation
| the market found solutions through improved collaboration
| (W3C getting its act together, and developers embracing web
| standards), business model innovation (mozilla foundation
| embracing open source vs. Netscape charging $40 for a
| commercial license), and better technology and
| industry/community collaboration (khtml and webkit). Even
| some eventual deadends like Flash played a role at the time
| in routing around the untenable, but very temporary,
| situation of IE v.4-6 dominance.
|
| Edit: I want to add that during the suit MS reps had a glib
| but prescient defense: "we think web browsers should be
| free". They meant as in beer, but they were right in the
| larger sense, and few would disagree with them today.
|
| Netscape was arguing that their by-then totally crappy
| commercial browser deserved protection from the state, when
| their demise had a lot more to do with insane bloat and
| their embrace of groupware.
| larrywright wrote:
| The issue with the browser (and sideloading) is security.
| Browsers by their nature are essentially apps that run
| arbitrary code from an unknown location. How do you ensure
| security of the devices if you don't control the browser?
|
| Safari is great on iOS. I've never felt the need to run
| something different. Same with sideloading apps. I've never
| seen the need for that. Maybe I'm an Apple fanboy but I
| think they're doing the right thing in both cases.
| millstone wrote:
| Microsoft got in trouble for licensing deals: strong-arming
| OEMs to force them to bundle Windows. Apple doesn't license
| iOS.
| taywrobel wrote:
| Apple doesn't have sufficient market share to be considered
| a monopoly. That's generally how they've skirted around the
| issue, and by positioning themselves as a premium brand,
| they can raise prices on their hardware to the point that
| market share remains sufficiently small to not be subject
| to monopoly laws.
|
| At the time of the MS/IE lawsuit (2001), Microsoft Windows
| had well over 95% of desktop operating system market share.
| skizm wrote:
| Fair point.
| milesskorpen wrote:
| Apple doesn't have the market share MSFT did back then.
| wolco wrote:
| You can remove them? Android doesn't allow me to remove them
| wasting my space.
|
| Not setting a default is bad too. Wish I could get there.
| krrrh wrote:
| What's worse for consumers in the end though?
|
| One profession missing in the parent comment are the
| researchers innovating on differential privacy. Apple has
| taken great pains to figure out ways to improve their maps
| without storing massive amounts of private user data, to the
| extent that they split routes in half, fuzz addresses, and
| analyze the start and end of trips independently.
|
| There's an argument that Google had such a huge head start on
| maps, that without Apple having the capacity to set defaults
| (on a platform that is not even a plurality of users), Apple
| Maps wouldn't have gotten enough users to justify
| improvements to where it is now. Apple also didn't get
| serious about having its own maps until Google attempted to
| exercise their at-the-time near-monopoly power to jack up
| licensing costs. Now the mere existence of Apple maps puts
| pressure on Google to improve the privacy features of its own
| map products as we've seen recently.
|
| Apple funds map development through device sales, and Google
| does it through targeted advertising, map services for third
| parties, and profiling users. Do we value competition only of
| mapping products, or should we also value a diversity of
| business models for mapping products? It's no small decision
| to bring in the Kommissar.
| theboat wrote:
| While I sympathize with your viewpoint, you're imposing
| your personal values on consumers who demonstrate their
| willingness to exchange personal data for free services
| every day. You and many HN users may balk at this, but most
| people are ok with trading privacy for real-time traffic
| predictions. Apple shouldn't receive an unfair market
| advantage because they embody the values you hold dear.
|
| Sidenote: I disagree that Apple Maps' success puts pressure
| on Google to up their privacy game. On the contrary, Google
| Maps comparative advantage _is_ their data trove, as there
| are many more users of Google Maps than Apple Maps, so they
| seem more likely to lean on that to succeed.
|
| I wouldn't look to the market to improve privacy, since as
| I said above, the market clearly doesn't care about privacy
| much at all. Without a seismic shift in public attitudes
| towards privacy, it's up to the government or the companies
| themselves to adapt.
| ogre_codes wrote:
| > you're imposing your personal values on consumers who
| demonstrate their willingness to exchange personal data
| for free services every day.
|
| Are they demonstrating their willingness, or do they
| simply not understand that there is a choice to be made?
| Considering the trivial difference in mapping performance
| in most places, I doubt most people would be willing to
| give up their privacy in exchange for saving a few
| seconds on their drive to the mall.
|
| > Without a seismic shift in public attitudes towards
| privacy,
|
| If people were truly aware of how much data is collected
| on them, how many people would opt in for the marginal
| benefits you get in return?
| theboat wrote:
| There have been so many opportunities for a grassroots
| pro-privacy movement to develop, and yet there isn't one.
| Devastating hacks (Target, Yahoo), election interference
| (CambridgeAnalytica), and yet nothing.
|
| Acting as if people are unaware of data collection is
| disingenuous. If you told the average facebook user how
| much facebook and its third-party partners knew about
| them, I doubt many of them would stop using the platform.
| wolco wrote:
| iPhones are not the market leader and do not have to
| follow molopoly based rules. They can allow apple maps
| only and all is legal.
| krrrh wrote:
| Press release from google, 2019-10-02:
|
| https://www.google.com/amp/s/blog.google/technology/safet
| y-s...
|
| * Added incognito mode to maps
|
| * Expands auto deletion of old data to include locations,
| and location searches
|
| Now... this might not be due solely to competitive
| pressures from Apple, but it was a topic of conversations
| I had with pro-privacy Android users I know who have been
| warming up to iOS. Feature introductions like this
| definitely take the edge off.
| celticmusic wrote:
| calling ignorance a willingness seems a bit much to me.
| the_reformation wrote:
| By this same logic, consumers are willing to exchange
| their inability to set a default Maps app in exchange for
| the iPhone bundle, at the price Apple provides
| (discounted because of the services revenue they can
| extract.)
| selectodude wrote:
| Google didn't try and raise the price, they demanded user
| data in exchange for access.
| krrrh wrote:
| Good correction! Though I recall that negotiations broke
| down across both factors.
| throawayguy wrote:
| What abuse? how is it right? It's the news industry that is
| leading and fuling attacks on tech companies for selfish
| financial reasons, and "big tech" is their term, it's a
| testament to their efficacy that people in tech drank that kool
| aid.
| AWildC182 wrote:
| ....what are you talking about? This is just an update on yet
| another closed platform.
|
| If apple cared about elevating the discipline and righting the
| abuses of big tech with their mapping app they'd partner with
| OpenStreetMap and make the data public rather than continuing
| to silo all the data about you and everyone around you.
|
| Instead we're continuing the closed source data gathering land
| rush and trying to beat google at its own game.
| rmc wrote:
| Apple Maps _is_ OpenStreetMap in many countries. In Denmark
| it's used for turn-by-turn navigation even.
|
| (Source: Talk by Apple employee at the OSM'a 'State of the
| Map' conference 2018 https://2018.stateofthemap.org/2018/T081
| -Working_with_the_Co... )
| AWildC182 wrote:
| Then why not do it everywhere and upstream the changes?
| georgebarnett wrote:
| Why should Apple give away their improvements?
|
| I'm genuinely curious why you think they should do this.
| AWildC182 wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Database_License
|
| Because they would be legally obligated to when using OSM
| as a base for anything.
|
| Also, because it would benefit society.
| georgebarnett wrote:
| Why do you equate "elevating the discipline" with "give away
| the data?".
|
| Are you suggesting Google didnt elevate the discipline of
| search because their backend is closed?
| AWildC182 wrote:
| How do you elevate a discipline by hiding literally
| everything behind NDAs?
| jwagenet wrote:
| I want to use Apple Maps more, but they still dont offer cycling
| directions. I used to use Apple Maps exclusively until I needed
| cycling directions because of the better lock screen integration
| and otherwise acceptable results, but I am still waiting...
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I've used Apple Maps pretty much exclusively for the last couple
| of years. It's worked fine for me.
|
| However, I am in a very populated area (Long Island, NY), so
| YMMV.
| let_var wrote:
| Mapping is hard, really hard. Now I'm finding it first hand. So
| kudos to the team for persisting with it and delivering a better
| result.
| spectramax wrote:
| No one has mentioned this yet - Apple Maps provides a very
| accurate representation of traffic:
|
| RED - Actually red (unlike Google Maps)... its bumper to bumper
| or less than 5 mph (8 kph)
|
| ORANGE - Slow moving, perhaps less than (25 mph or 40 kph)
|
| Google just shows everything RED. Yellow doesn't necessarily mean
| slow down in Google Maps. Its a mess.
|
| Also, Apple maps is tremendously accurate in estimating how long
| it is going to take.
|
| Major feature missing in Apple maps: Time it takes at a user
| specified hour. I use this to hunt for apartments, and test out
| how long it is going to take to and from work everyday. Google
| has this built in for a while "Leave at ____ time).
| andrewljohnson wrote:
| Shameless plug, but we just shipped our huge Gaia Topo update
| too.
|
| Gaia Topo focuses on the backcountry, and specifically
| downloading for offline use: https://blog.gaiagps.com/easy-to-
| read-tiny-to-download-the-a...
| mthoms wrote:
| Happy user, reporting in. Nice work!
| kylebarron wrote:
| I've thought for a while that your Gaia Topo layer could be
| improved, especially because until now I don't think you had
| any hillshade at all for a topo map!
|
| I spent some time checking out your map this morning, and it
| looks really nice at low zooms, but I'm still a little
| disappointed at high zooms. At zoom 13 the hillshading ends!
|
| For example, at zoom 14, I still much prefer a map with a
| hillshade (my own work):
| https://www.gaiagps.com/map/?loc=14.0/-121.1500/48.1582&laye...
| https://nst.guide/#14/48.1582/-121.15
| andrewljohnson wrote:
| That's fair... we chose to drop the shading at that zoom, but
| we could be wrong. I think some people prefer a cleaner read
| when zoomed in so far (especially for field use), and shading
| also makes the tiles larger/slower to download.
|
| Gaia GPS does have a separate raster hill-shading layer from
| ESRI you could layer on top, and we've been considering
| making our own (we already have an elevation data pipeline
| and create contour lines, so hill-shading isn't a huge step).
| Maybe that would have a special UX where you could choose to
| include it or not in your downloads.
|
| I dig your map style!
| kylebarron wrote:
| That's true regarding file size. It is nice to have the
| option to overlay another hillshading layer.
|
| I use Terrain RGB tiles that I [make
| myself](https://github.com/nst-guide/terrain#terrain-rgb),
| and having elevation data on the client opens up cool
| future possibilities like client-side viewshed analysis.
|
| And thanks! The [style](https://github.com/nst-guide/osm-
| liberty-topo) and the rest of this project is open source.
| The style is a fork of osm-liberty, using the OpenMapTiles
| schema.
| [deleted]
| leokennis wrote:
| Absolutely love Gaia! Almost 10 years of my outdoor life are in
| that app!
|
| With the current pricing and amount of users, is it a
| sustainable business?
| andrewljohnson wrote:
| Thanks, we'll be going strong for another 10 years :)
|
| I think the business is very healthy. Headcount continues to
| grow, but not in a crazy way, and the great majority of the
| expenses are R&D. We're certainly default alive.
| 0xffff2 wrote:
| I just downloaded the app. Can I not use it at all without an
| account? If so, why?
| andrewljohnson wrote:
| You should be able to use without an account.
|
| There is a Skip button in the top right corner of the opening
| screen, or the Register screen. Ping me at andrew@gaiagps.com
| if you can't find it.
| 0xffff2 wrote:
| Ah, yeah, my bad for not noticing the dark grey text on a
| black background.
| bhahn wrote:
| I just switched to an iPhone after being a long time Android
| user, and I've found Apple Maps directions not to be as good as
| Google Maps'. I live in central LA, and it regularly routes me
| through long and congested intersections.
|
| Does anyone else feel this as well? Is it just my small sample
| size? I would like to continue using Apple Maps over Google Maps
| because of the integration with Apple Watch, but it's getting
| harder and harder each day to justify.
| timcederman wrote:
| Over the last few years I've found Apple Maps get better and
| better in the Bay Area. I now default to Apple Maps as its
| routing, particularly for peninsula to city driving, is always
| faster/more efficient than Google Maps.
| stevehawk wrote:
| As a non Bay Area resident I can't say that compels me to
| think the app is any better. Seems like a lot of apps I use
| these days only work in the Bay Area.
| pfarnsworth wrote:
| Waze is by far the best routing. It's better than Tesla
| routing, which I thought used Google Maps, and it's better than
| Apple Maps. There's no point in experimenting with anything
| else because Waze is just so much better, it's effectively a
| waste of time to try anything else.
| dkonofalski wrote:
| That's funny because I feel like I've read a few articles out
| there that did comparative testing of Google Maps vs. Apple
| Maps and, while Google's routing estimated a shorter ETA, the
| Apple Maps routing ended up being faster and more accurate to
| the estimate nearly every time. I don't really want to think
| I'm going to get somewhere fast. I actually want to get there
| faster and, more importantly, when the app tells me I'm going
| to get there.
| TheHypnotist wrote:
| From experience Waze will take you all over creation just
| to shave a minute. Sometimes it's just not worth it. But at
| least they present options.
| ilikehurdles wrote:
| Traffic data is just not as good with Apple Maps. In some
| places they aggregate reports from traffic reporting agencies,
| but user-reporting is dependent on people using it and opting
| in to sharing data, but this is a challenge with a privacy-
| focused approach.
| ptasci67 wrote:
| As some one who exclusively uses Apple Maps on the west side of
| LA, I have found the routing to be similar or the same. The
| killer function for me is the HUD when I have it mounted on my
| dash. Light-years better. Also...the lane accuracy is
| unparalleled.
| chrisjc wrote:
| > The killer function for me is the HUD when I have it
| mounted on my dash.
|
| What do you mean? That the phone's screen provides turn by
| turn instructions, while the car's screen provides more a
| trip/map perspective?
|
| edit: i just realized that I can use the phone's screen for
| turn by turn, and have the car's screen display music, or
| whatever else!!!
| joewrong wrote:
| the only thing stopping me from uninstalling google maps is
| setting the map view to north-up during turn by turn navigation.
| I can't handle the map turning while I am for some reason.
| tomrod wrote:
| Given their integration with DDG, I wonder if Apple would
| consider purchasing DDG to have the best privacy mindset on the
| web.
|
| Then... maybe purchasing Mozilla for networking suite?
| londons_explore wrote:
| DDG and Mozilla would loose a lot of users (and therefore
| value) if bought by apple. There is only a partial overlap in
| 'cultures', and they're both products where culture is very
| important.
| tpmx wrote:
| So only 194 countries left. Go Apple! Also, we really love being
| considered second priority to the US!
| merpnderp wrote:
| Someone has to be first, why not their biggest customer? How
| would you sort the priority list?
| tpmx wrote:
| I'd maybe prioritize the UK over Alabama or Florida.
| fudged71 wrote:
| In this thread: everyone talking about the quality of the
| previous Apple Maps rather than the update...
| SalimoS wrote:
| I know it's unrelated but I can't understand why Apple removed
| directions in my country (I'm sorry not only mine but many
| countries)
|
| I didn't have real navigation but just directions (and the blue
| line in the map) and that was enough to not use google maps But
| after the release of iOS 13 it's not possible anymore <<
| directions not available from this location >> And because of
| that i have to install google maps on my iPad ...
| kiwijamo wrote:
| Which country are you in? I'm in New Zealand and it's working
| fine for me here.
| SalimoS wrote:
| Tunisia but as you can see the list of supported countries is
| short for directions (compared to standard )
| https://www.apple.com/ios/feature-availability/#maps-
| directi...
| jonplackett wrote:
| I would love for Apple maps to be good. But it's not. In the UK
| it is terrible. Unusable. I've tried. I've tried hard. But it is
| useless. It doesn't know where things are. And that is a map's
| core competency.
| JackFr wrote:
| My experience too. It's too annoying to use. And I know that's
| I highly personal opinion that I can rationalize, but I am not
| ready to subject to some analysis. It's taste.
|
| And the last couple iOS updates have been really disappointing,
| functionality has not improved and useless flourishes have been
| added. I feel its passed the Microsoft Excel 2003 tipping
| point. (IMO MS Excel 2003 was peak MS Excel. It was brilliant,
| robust, intuitive and made it possible to do amazing work, in
| so far as a spreadsheet can. For the past 15 years all of the
| work on Excel has made it less functional, less robust and far
| less intuitive, but I guess a software product has gotta have
| new releases).
| city41 wrote:
| I really hope this new Maps updates with new addresses better.
| The place I am living in now is about 18 months old. Google added
| the address in about 8 months ago, Apple still has not. People
| who use Apple maps and put in my address end up with an address
| clear on the other side of town. Pretty much everyone just trusts
| map apps, so this has been pretty annoying. I now have to give
| out my address and warn people to not use Apple Maps. Many still
| do despite my warning :-/
|
| I submitted a correction inside the app a couple times over the
| course of several months to no avail. So I tweeted at
| AppleSupport. They assigned a support representative to my case
| and he's been calling me about once a week for weeks now. It's
| almost comical at this point.
|
| So here's hoping this new map app avoids this kind of headache.
| frankus wrote:
| This morning I noticed stop signs and traffic lights indicated on
| the map in CarPlay. Hadn't seen that until today (to be fair I'm
| not in a major city by any stretch).
| drunken-serval wrote:
| Same here. I'm in a major city and they just showed up this
| morning.
| leokennis wrote:
| I'm looking forward to using the similarly updated maps of
| Europe, somewhere between our first contact with aliens and the
| heat death of the universe.
| shd4 wrote:
| From the PR: "Apple completed the rollout of this new Maps
| experience in the United States and will begin rolling it out
| across Europe in the coming months."
| azinman2 wrote:
| Congrats to the teams who did this! It's been a long time
| coming.. and a lot of people said along the way that Apple should
| just give up it was too far behind. Perseverance (and a lot of
| resources) can go a long way!
|
| It reminds me of some advice given to me by a heavily successful
| industrialist friend -- never dismiss your competition, for the
| world is not static.
| ehsankia wrote:
| Honestly, the redesign aside, it's really impressive how
| quickly they are catching up with most Google Maps features.
| Given, I haven't tried these myself and can't attest to their
| quality, but in the article they list: Real-Time Transit info,
| Sharing ETA, Indoor Maps, etc. They also got street view, and
| more.
|
| Of course, it's much easier to copy features than innovate, the
| latter takes years of UX research, while the former can simply
| just take all the lessons learned and implement the final
| iteration. That being said, it sounds like Apple has invested
| big time on their Maps team, doing so much is so little time is
| truly impressive.
| galangalalgol wrote:
| As recently as a month ago apple maps sent my coworker miles
| from his destination to a very bad part of town. It is still
| pretty bad.
| doodlebugging wrote:
| The teams are mostly 1099 contract workers through a third
| party with no benefits and no hope of advancement or future
| employment as full-time employee of Apple since their contract
| specifically expires in one year. They make around $20/hour
| usually right out of college in a town (Austin) with one of the
| fastest growing cost of living due to the influx of all the
| tech companies who got tired of the California scene and
| decided to move to Texas for the sweet tax cuts and business-
| friendly environment.
|
| I'm sure the contract company siphons most of the contract
| value from Apple and the dedicated workers doing all the GIS
| work, the turn-by-turn descriptions, business identifications,
| etc. updating all the things that made the original Apple Maps
| such a delicious joke are left with an income that barely meets
| expenses in a town where those expenses are steadily rising.
| This job for them is just a resume filler though they aren't
| even allowed, due to NDA, to specify exactly what they do (what
| software or skills they use) or who they do it for when they
| update their resumes so that before the end of their one year
| contracts they can find a real career-type job.
|
| It is a great update to a product that did originally suck
| though. It isn't Apple employees who are doing the actual work.
| They're the supervisors.
| baggy_trough wrote:
| Apple gave them an option that was better than all others
| available to them. Otherwise they would be doing that other
| option instead. So thanks, Apple!
| arrakeen wrote:
| i am a well-paid contractor who disagrees
| dylan604 wrote:
| "Is it Apple Maps bad?" --Gavin Belson, Silicon Valley
|
| They had no place to go but up. That first version was
| absolutely embarrassing. I'm honestly surprised they were
| allowed to make it this far. To this day, I still do not use
| Apple Maps. As much as they try to get me to use it with all of
| the iOS embedding they've done, I still won't use it.
| azinman2 wrote:
| Why not? Because it started out bad.... 7 years ago?
| fjp wrote:
| Anecdotally Apple Maps is still _really_ bad. I have tried
| using it to drive and walk around major cities in the last
| two years and it just completely misrepresents where some
| roads are, it doesn 't catch up with construction, etc.
| etc.
| [deleted]
| azinman2 wrote:
| This announcement today was about the release of entirely
| new rebuilt maps data for the entire US, from the ground
| up.
| tcbasche wrote:
| Yes it's almost as if this thread is attached to an
| article about how Apple Maps is not the same as it once
| was
| what_ever wrote:
| Wasn't the rollout happening by region all through 2019?
| Doesn't necessarily mean EVERYONE is getting new data
| TODAY.
|
| Look at the previous coverage on this blog -
| https://www.justinobeirne.com/
| azinman2 wrote:
| The PR piece says:
|
| "Apple completed the rollout of this new Maps experience
| in the United States and will begin rolling it out across
| Europe in the coming months."
| what_ever wrote:
| Yes, which means that the person you are responding may
| have had new data already from the old rollout. Not sure
| what are you trying to say from this comment.
| azinman2 wrote:
| I interpreted "Doesn't necessarily mean EVERYONE is
| getting new data TODAY" to mean that they don't have new
| data at all. My original comment was a reference to the
| "the last two years" of the GP, suggesting that their
| experience will be different now than 2 years ago.
| Perhaps in the last year it was already different and
| still not good enough, or perhaps it wasn't different yet
| and now it will be so the two year old data isn't
| sufficient to judge anymore. Only fjp can say.
| dylan604 wrote:
| I've tried it several times after various upgrades, but
| just never has won me over. There's multiple competing
| products. This particular one has always been behind in
| usability. There's just always been something that wasn't
| up to snuff, and I stop using it. I have better things to
| do than suffer with less usable software.
|
| In the old days of Macromedia Freehand and Adobe
| Illustrator, each version would add features and updates
| that would make it slightly better than the other. I would
| use it until the other came out with their new version. It
| was a constant ping pong/leapfrog of competing products
| trying to win until Adobe ultimately won outright. In my
| testing, not once has Apple Maps leapfrogged to be the
| leading app.
| mcbutterbunz wrote:
| This update may make me switch from Google Maps. The UI in
| Google Maps has always been confusing and cluttered. There's
| a search bar, then quick search buttons underneath, then the
| layers button, "Explore nearby", explore, commute, "For you",
| and then finally the hamburger menu.
|
| Apple Maps is a lot cleaner but the only thing missing was
| the quality of the actual maps. Hopefully that has changed
| now.
| jschwartzi wrote:
| My favorite feature of Google Maps is how it gets 10x
| slower when you turn location history off. And then it
| obnoxiously prompts you to turn it back on for an "improved
| user experience." I've duplicated this exact experience
| across several generations of smartphone including a
| relatively recent Galaxy S7. Turning location history back
| on makes the slowness go away.
| what_ever wrote:
| I don't have this experience on Pixel 3. I also have
| location history off and have never gotten the prompt.
| Does that come up in a specific usecase?
|
| Disc: Googler but nowhere close to Maps.
| jschwartzi wrote:
| Yeah, whenever my fiance or I try to search for a
| location, it takes maps several seconds to let us start
| typing. It only does this when we turn location history
| off. Honestly one of the things that drove me to stop
| using my G4 was this issue, because I had thought it was
| a performance issue with the phone. Then my fiance showed
| me how slow her S7 was with location history turned off
| versus on.
|
| Regarding the prompt, it's always on in the search screen
| but starting a search makes it go away.
| abawany wrote:
| Google's treatment of Android users vs. its treatment of
| iOS users for the same app is insightful: in the former
| case, the treatment imo borders on the abusive with
| mandatory and permanent changes required to data
| collection to be able to do trivial things such as
| activate a Google Assistant using the Home app.
| itp wrote:
| There's also the ability to collaborate with people who
| don't have an iOS device. If someone creates a Collection
| in Apple Maps I just don't get to participate. If someone
| creates a shared list in Google Maps I can see it on my
| phone, a web browser, someone with an iPhone...
| briandear wrote:
| And Google gets to see it too. And all their advertisers.
| reissbaker wrote:
| Google doesn't give your map collections to advertisers.
|
| It's true that _Google_ gets to see them, but Apple is no
| better in that regard: they store your collections on
| their servers too (where else would they store them?).
| krrrh wrote:
| Apple is better in that regard.
|
| _End-to-end encryption_
|
| _Maps keeps your personal data in sync across all your
| devices using end-to-end encryption. Your Significant
| Locations and collections are encrypted end-to-end so
| Apple cannot read them. And when you share your ETA with
| other Maps users, Apple can't see your location._
|
| Other useful sections on that page worth reading:
| "Location Fuzzing", "Random Identifiers", and "(on-
| device) Personalization"
|
| From: https://www.apple.com/privacy/features/
| rodgerd wrote:
| Google maps used to be fantastic, but in the last year or
| so it's become so fucking toxic - constantly spamming
| suggestions and asking questions, even during navigation
| (in other words, distracting me from driving!).
|
| Apple maps may not be quite as good (the lack of cycling in
| my neck of the woods is annoying) but at least it's not
| trying to crash my car.
| wmeredith wrote:
| Not sure Maps needs a redesign. It certainly needs better search.
| I just opened up maps, searched the name of my company, and it
| gave me the London Office. I'm sitting in our office in Kansas
| City.
| scep12 wrote:
| Did you read the article? It's mostly about the new features
| and data they've added, and less about a reskin.
| stefan_ wrote:
| I suppose it is a sign of a mature app that Apple Maps is now in
| it's "Google Maps" phase where the only "improvements" are
| frequent, unprompted redesigns that cut functionality to the bone
| and change old interaction patterns for little discernible
| reason.
| pizza wrote:
| The only thing I use Google Maps for at this point is checking
| peak times (for the gym) and, rarely, if I have to give someone
| else public transit route information
| krrrh wrote:
| Transit app absolutely smokes Google Maps for transit
| directions in every city I've tried it in, if you're looking to
| reduce your Google footprint further. Depending on the city it
| also integrates with micomobility and car sharing and offers
| intermodal directions based on preferences.
|
| https://transitapp.com/region/sf-bay-area#all-regions
| Ididntdothis wrote:
| If they only could provide offline maps like google maps. That
| feature is fantastic in the desert areas in the west where you
| have no connectivity. Even the search function works great when
| offline.
|
| Also search still works better in google maps. Apple Maps doesn't
| find the Office Depot near me but one 100 miles away for example.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| It's sad that technology has actually regressed despite
| exponential increments in processing power and storage
| capacity.
|
| It used to be that you could buy a mapping software and install
| it on your PDA/Pocket PC and it would run fine despite a CPU
| speed in the _mega_ hertz.
|
| Nowadays offline maps is some niche advanced feature despite
| even low-end devices have enough processing power to come
| preinstalled with an offline map.
| Ididntdothis wrote:
| OpenStreetMaps has some good apps with offline support but
| their search function is usually pretty bad. If they could
| crack search OpenStreetMaps would be a winner.
| SlowRobotAhead wrote:
| We use this when traveling abroad, it's extremely helpful to
| know exactly how to get from A to B before you buy a local sim
| card.
| dickjocke wrote:
| Yes it seems kind of comical that a simple offline cache
| wouldn't be included as an easy to tick off thing to include in
| this huge undertaking.
| m0zg wrote:
| There's no way for them to beat a decade+ of effort (and billions
| of dollars) that Google has put into their maps unless they are
| prepared to really invest. And they are stingy AF when it comes
| to multibillion-dollar investments that aren't hardware. This is
| the reason why they suck at AI as well.
| aynyc wrote:
| People don't use Waze anymore? I find Waze to be more accurate in
| terms of time on longer drives.
| ilikehurdles wrote:
| Waze would always route me through a spiderweb of neighborhood
| streets to save me a couple minutes of commute time back when I
| used to use it, but the main reason I switched is that I prefer
| the design of Apple Maps, and it works "good enough". Google
| Maps and Waze don't really feel like they fit into the iOS
| design guidelines, and the overhead of loading all that
| sponsored content within them just makes them feel sluggish
| while Apple Maps is always buttery smooth and keeps most of its
| interface out of your way when you're not using it.
| crooked-v wrote:
| UI-wise, I like the Apple Maps lane indicator and next turn
| display much, much better than the Google Maps equivalent.
| vips7L wrote:
| Didn't they get bought by google?
| danaris wrote:
| I've used Apple Maps on multiple 2-5 hour drives recently, and
| the time estimates were pretty nearly bang-on in almost all the
| cases.
|
| (The one exception was the time there were multiple significant
| tailbacks on the highway, with the amount of delay they were
| causing clearly shifting and changing minute-to-minute just
| from what we could see ourselves.)
| lostgame wrote:
| I've honestly never heard of Waze.
|
| EDIT: Holy downvotes, I didn't mean it as anything negative, I
| actually had to Google it. You can't hear about _everything_ :3
| sixstringtheory wrote:
| This is a good piece of feedback for anyone at Waze,
| especially if you were willing to share more about your
| market details like where you live or any social networks you
| use, they could evaluate their advertising strategies.
|
| It was an honest response to a valid question. I was quite
| surprised to see it, but after reflecting, things change in
| the software world so quickly (and new people are born all
| the time) that it's inevitable that today's staples will be
| forgotten tomorrow. Also, congrats, you're one of today's
| lucky 10,000! [0]
|
| Downvotes weren't warranted IMO, but be careful complaining
| about downvotes on HN, it's against their usage guidelines
| [1]:
|
| > Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never
| does any good, and it makes boring reading.
|
| [0]: https://xkcd.com/1053/
|
| [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| lostgame wrote:
| The only time I'll ever ask about downvotes is a genuine
| curiosity as to why people disagree with a point, so I can
| learn more. :)
| asmosoinio wrote:
| While the Waze app is still separate from Google Maps, I am
| sure Google is using a ton of the previously Waze specific
| (mostly user sourced) data in Google Maps since they acquired
| it in 2013.
|
| https://techcrunch.com/2013/06/11/its-official-google-buys-w...
| ilikehurdles wrote:
| I occasionally see speed trap alerts in Google Maps, which I
| figure are sourced from waze user reports.
| duderific wrote:
| I'm excited about the Share ETA feature. Every night after work,
| I get in the car, open Google maps, get the ETA and text my wife
| my expected arrival time. If this works out well it will be one
| less thing I have to remember to do.
| jeromegv wrote:
| You can also use Shortcuts to automate that process quite well,
| been using it already. There's a few examples here:
| https://www.reddit.com/r/shortcuts/
| atourgates wrote:
| They're taking their sweet time with the implementation of their
| "Look Around" feature.
|
| I passed an Apple Maps camera car in rural Idaho on a state
| highway in the summer of 2018. If they were already in that much
| of an "out of the way" place back then, it's surprising to see
| that they're just getting around to adding major cities now.
| projektfu wrote:
| It doesn't look like they added a way to set a route with several
| stops before starting navigation. Any word there?
| ianwalter wrote:
| Ahhhh so sick of companies featuring San Fran. The whole point is
| that it has better coverage Nation-wide. Pick literally anywhere
| else in the country!
| toomim wrote:
| They did. The example map is from Abilene, TX.
| 0xffff2 wrote:
| I count 6 images in the link. 3 are SF, one is SJC, one is
| New York, and one is (presumably) Abilene.
| ska wrote:
| Doesn't that make comparisons harder? Granted companies may
| game SF results, but looking at on companies downtown Houston
| map and anothers Sioux Falls isn't so helpful.
| throw7 wrote:
| This is only for apple users/devices correct? The title makes it
| seem I can use it from my web browser or android device?
| foobiekr wrote:
| DuckDuckGo seems to use Apple Maps for its mapping:
| https://duckduckgo.com/?q=duckduckgo.com&atb=v194-1&ia=web&i...
|
| ... but I honestly can't tell if this has the new stuff or not.
| protomyth wrote:
| At this point, I absolutely hate when people use Apple Maps to
| find our community college. Apple just plain refuses to
| acknowledge the town we are located in exists. It also ignores
| all businesses on the reservation and points to the local Coca-
| Cola bottling location as the closest grocery store. I've filed
| bugs going back years and no changes.
|
| Privacy and UI cannot overcome really poor data.
| slavik81 wrote:
| Google has these sorts of problems too. It fails at correctly
| parsing examples straight out of the Canada Post Addressing
| Guidelines. [1]
|
| Put in "10-123 Main St, Montreal QC H3Z 2Y7" into Google Maps
| and it will take you to "10 Main St, Montreal QC H3Z 5X3" Or,
| rather, it would if that was a real address. The correct
| building would be to "123 Main St, Montreal QC H3Z 2Y7".
|
| [1]:
| https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/manual/PGaddress-e.asp?ec...
| jeromegv wrote:
| Yeah, I copy pasted a postal address into Waze a few months
| ago. Little did I know! Waze sent me to the wrong spot and
| ignored the Canadian convention. Thought this was an odd
| mistake but now that you say it, i'll avoid it entirely.
| tclancy wrote:
| Is this still true after the update?
| koolba wrote:
| Why would you expect a UI update to change the underlying
| server data?
| jolux wrote:
| It's not just a UI update, they went through and captured
| all the data themselves as well so they won't have to
| supplement with TomTom anymore.
| BoorishBears wrote:
| It's not just a UI update, it's brand new maps with
| completely revamped datasets.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| "More precise addresses" sounds deeper than a UI update.
| jamesgeck0 wrote:
| Because the website says that the map data has been updated
| as well.
| nwsm wrote:
| Why would you expect only a UI update to be relevant?
| gshulegaard wrote:
| Why do you think it was just a UI update? The headline from
| the article:
|
| > New Apple Maps Designed with Better Road Coverage and
| Pedestrian Data, More Precise Addresses, and Detailed Land
| Cover
|
| As well as many of the features highlighted by the article
| seems to allude to new data.
|
| - Look Around
|
| - Real-time transit information
|
| - Flight status
|
| - Indoor Maps
|
| - Flyover (3D city scapes)
|
| At the very least it sounds like they have added a whole
| bunch of data sources. They also claim that they have
| better road and pedestrian coverage...but offer no
| specifics. So whether these changes produce net "better"
| data foundation is unclear, but it sounds to me like more
| than just a visual update.
| protomyth wrote:
| Yep
| [deleted]
| lucb1e wrote:
| There are so many issues like this. People complain about
| TomTom maps never being updated in navigation systems because
| it's licensed, Apple Maps being crappy (or in this case,
| wrong), even Google Maps is often slow in updating (e.g. the
| tunnel in Maastricht took some time after it opened, which was
| known and announced years ahead) and very incomplete in terms
| of footpaths and trails.
|
| The USA is probably the worst example, but globally, in the
| majority of places (geographically _), OpenStreetMap does
| better at all of this: it 's more complete and more up to date.
|
| _ Pick a random point on earth on land, compare TomTom, Bing,
| Google, and OSM. Repeat 50 times. I did this and OSM was a very
| clear winner (it's still on my todo list to make a blog post
| with visuals, which is quite a bit more work than just doing it
| for myself).
| protomyth wrote:
| Wow, OpenStreetMaps is worse which makes a bit of sense. Is
| there a good (step-by-step) tutorial on submitting data to
| OSM. I get the feeling if I can get the land grants people to
| submit their data it might make things a bit better.
| aendruk wrote:
| For a well-defined project like this, I recommend getting
| in touch with people in the OSM US Slack workspace [0] for
| advice on possible data sources, mapping techniques,
| prior/duplicate efforts, etc.
|
| [0]: https://osmus-slack.herokuapp.com/
| [deleted]
| monknomo wrote:
| https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners%27_guide
|
| It's pretty easy, you just make an account, pick an editor
| and start making outlines and tagging stuff
| iiiggglll wrote:
| Wow, what city is this?
|
| > I've filed bugs
|
| Was that using Radar? Did you try using the "Report an Issue"
| UI within the Maps app itself?
| reaperducer wrote:
| _Wow, what city is this?_
|
| Not a city. He notes this is on a reservation.
|
| _Was that using Radar? Did you try using the "Report an
| Issue" UI within the Maps app itself?_
|
| I've given up filing map bug reports for reservations.
| There's simply too many. It would be a full-time job for ten
| people to list all of the missing/wrong places in both Apple
| and Google maps. There are vast areas of the United States
| where paper maps are still far better. Indian reservations
| are among those.
|
| Part of it is the fault of history. Many places on
| reservations don't have street addresses, or sometimes even
| streets. But that doesn't mean they aren't places of
| commerce, community, or otherwise vital to the lives of
| thousands of people.
|
| Other times, though, there are towns and businesses on main
| or even state highways that don't exist on Google or Apple
| Maps at all.
|
| I think a big part of the problem is that Google and Apple
| rely too heavily on social media and review sites for their
| geographic information. Those don't help when you're mapping
| an area with limited internet connectivity and zero cell
| service.
|
| I'd quit my job to work for Apple mapping the chapter houses,
| trading posts, and other places on America's reservations.
| One person could only make a small dent, but every drop
| helps.
| protomyth wrote:
| _Not a city. He notes this is on a reservation._
|
| I guess city is a bit grand, but there are towns with
| actual zip codes on reservations.
|
| _Part of it is the fault of history. Many places on
| reservations don 't have street addresses, or sometimes
| even streets. But that doesn't mean they aren't places of
| commerce, community, or otherwise vital to the lives of
| thousands of people._
|
| The whole 911 thing started forcing road names and
| addresses. The bigger problem is that what we have for an
| address (as told to us by one of the utility companies) is
| different than whatever source Apple is using. Strangely,
| Google figured out quite a bit more of it.
| zweep wrote:
| And that's why the "Hoover up all the data" approach will win.
| Google can snoop on everyone's emails and locations and
| transaction receipts and find the location and names of
| businesses automatically, and even their opening hours.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Have you tried emailing tcook at apple's domain to get
| executive escalation team support? Not that that should be
| necessary of course, just exhausting all options for
| remediation.
| dualboot wrote:
| I still email Steve...
| ssully wrote:
| Let us know if you ever get a response
| protomyth wrote:
| No, I haven't. I'm saving my one shot at that if the we
| cannot get Swift Curriculum offered.
| https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/08/leading-us-
| community-...
| handedness wrote:
| I fail to see the connection, but every single Apple Maps
| correction I've submitted has been applied.
| protomyth wrote:
| I reported it on the Apple Maps site and filed a bug as a
| developer. I don't want to send stuff to the Apple
| executives when I might really need to get noticed for
| something that will really help the student's future.
| handedness wrote:
| Thanks, that makes more sense. Still, I would be
| surprised if any continuity between the two requests
| became a factor.
|
| Even if it did, it would show you as someone looking out
| for students at a community college, something which
| would likely elevate the importance of the request. A
| bunch of potentially snarky students mocking Apple
| Maps/Apple Inc. on social media seems like a force
| multiplier that would work in your favor.
| dsalzman wrote:
| Shout out to all of Justin O'Beirne' amazing analysis on all
| things maps. https://www.justinobeirne.com/ -he's even got an
| updated post related to this press release.
| pgodzin wrote:
| direct link: https://www.justinobeirne.com/new-apple-maps-
| continental-uni...
| noelsusman wrote:
| It makes me sad that Apple followed Google with the idea of
| coloring maps green based on satellite photos of trees rather
| than actual parks. Why anyone in Silicon Valley thinks I give
| a shit where trees are is beyond me. I used to be able to
| pull up maps and instantly see any parks around me. Now
| they're practically invisible.
| Y-Bopinator wrote:
| Apple maps sucks. I use google maps on iOS.
| pier25 wrote:
| Apple Maps is still totally useless in Mexico. Even the most die
| hard Apple fans still rely on Google Maps or Waze.
| criley2 wrote:
| Really have to give kudos to Google for basically inventing this
| design language, because this Maps update really looks like a
| "catch-up" to much of the design language Google Maps has been
| using for a long time now. Honestly, looking at these images,
| Apple Maps looks like a desaturated/less colorful Google Maps
| (and that's not necessarily a good thing either).
| [deleted]
| companyhen wrote:
| Apple Maps got me lost 3 times in a row, put me at least 1 mile
| out of the way. Never used it again.
| reaperducer wrote:
| _Apple Maps got me lost 3 times in a row, put me at least 1
| mile out of the way_
|
| Unless you were on foot... that doesn't sound that bad.
|
| _Never used it again._
|
| So you have no idea if it's improved since then.
| pkaye wrote:
| Is there an Apple Maps for the web browser?
| vucetica wrote:
| You can use them from browser if you use duckduckgo as your
| search engine. There is still not an option to navigate there
| (if you are, for example, planning your trips in advance). Very
| basic, unfortunately.
| fetus8 wrote:
| https://duckduckgo.com/?q=maps&t=h_&ia=maps&iaxm=maps
|
| DDG has been using Apple Maps via browser for the last year or
| two IIRC.
| [deleted]
| overcast wrote:
| As small as it sounds, the collections feature is a big deal for
| me. Particularly in my line of work marketing food and drinks.
|
| Unfortunately sharing your collection with someone is a point in
| time. If you update your list, the link doesn't update to reflect
| that, nor does it update their collection if they've imported
| yours.
|
| What I would LOVE to see is Apple Maps developing it's own little
| social circle of recommendations with your contacts and or other
| Apple Maps users, instead of shitty Yelp integration. Sharing
| collections, keeps a pointer to your collection as manage it. I
| suspect this is where it's going to go(hopefully).
| MikeKusold wrote:
| The Yelp integration is so terrible because Yelp forces you to
| download the app to see any information.
|
| My flow is: Find place via Apple Maps, click the reviews, get
| sent to Yelp's mobile website that says "We don't do mobile
| websites, download the app", then I say screw it and open up
| Google Maps.
| SaulOfTheJungle wrote:
| I agree.
|
| The only reason I'm still using Google Maps on my iPhone is
| because of Apple Map's Yelp integration.
|
| I boycott Yelp because of how they've treated businesses.
| pastor_elm wrote:
| Their international maps still don't look that great
| unfortunately. And there is still no ability to download offline
| maps like Google Maps, which is essential for avoiding
| international roaming fees. C'mon Apple, you make a billion
| dollars a day. Put a little more juice into this team.
| giarc wrote:
| I live in Canada and an Apple Street Maps car passed me sometime
| in spring/summer of 2019. I suspect Canada will get a similar
| update in 2020 or early 2021.
| pgm8705 wrote:
| Apple Maps has come a long way since its disastrous initial
| release. For about a year now, I have rarely used Google Maps. I
| typically find Apple Map's routing to be just as effective, even
| for avoiding traffic, accidents, etc.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| They finally updated buildings in New Orleans that had been
| demolished in the 90s well before Katrina but are still giving
| a dangerous routing from the west bank of the river to downtown
| that you will get ticketed for if police will see you do it.
| The alternate ramp has been complete since 1992.
| mason55 wrote:
| Yup I switched about a year ago because I liked the CarPlay
| interface the best out of [Apple Maps, Google Maps, Waze,
| Subaru Built In Maps]. And the privacy over Google Maps is a
| huge bonus.
| tcbasche wrote:
| My favourite feature on iPhone is it telling me where my car
| is parked. Sometimes I go to a meetup at a local university,
| which is also a rats nest of roads and alleyways, and this
| has saved my hide multiple times
| TheHypnotist wrote:
| I tried it. But then for some reason Apple Maps asked me to
| U-Turn on the Garden State Parkway. That's not an option.
|
| Back to waze i went.
| pfranz wrote:
| I hear Apple is pretty responsive about correcting reported
| errors. There's error reporting inside the app that
| includes a spot to attach a photo. Of course, this can be
| problematic when driving and I much prefer Waze's error
| reporting.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| How do you do this for directions?
| macintux wrote:
| You have to do it after, or simply stop the navigation,
| but once you do, if you select the "Report an Issue"
| option from the Info menu you can pick from your recent
| trips.
|
| Once you do so, you can select the wrong turn/other
| problem from the list of steps and describe the problem.
| cptskippy wrote:
| > its disastrous initial release.
|
| I'm no fan of Apple but I'd hardly call it's release
| disastrous.
| JohnJamesRambo wrote:
| I enjoy how they keep saying private as a f you to Google Maps.
| I'll give Maps a try again, the privacy is a good enticement for
| me.
| spacegod wrote:
| Its BS too.
|
| Source: I'm an ex Maps employee.
| wonderment wrote:
| What's BS? More details please?
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Google maps near me is riddled with advertisements now.
| Promoted pins or whatever they call it. Of course, it's for
| stores that I won't ever have a need to visit.
| chrisjc wrote:
| My favorite feature of Google maps is asking how i rate the
| directions before I get there. You know, right at the last
| mile while you're still trying to get where you're going.
| chungus_khan wrote:
| There's also a whole tab of the navigate view that's just an
| advert for Uber, which I don't really appreciate.
| kaishiro wrote:
| As another piece of anecdata, I actually _do_ appreciate
| this tab. In the states it brings up Uber and Lyft for me,
| and traveling through JP I would also get Didi. Was nice to
| see what the price difference would be compared to public
| transit options.
| jefftk wrote:
| On my device I see a tab for ride hailing services, which
| is showing me choices for Uber and Lyft. I like it a lot,
| since I'm often choosing between walking, public transit,
| and Uber/Lyft. It makes it really easy to compare options.
|
| (Disclosure: I work for Google)
| tomrod wrote:
| Sounds like an opportunity for unsolicited feedback!
|
| I second parent commentator.
| unlinked_dll wrote:
| The final straw that got me to ditch android was Google
| sending me push notifications asking me to review places I've
| been to, via maps.
|
| If you want reviews, pay secret shoppers. And if you want me
| to use your app, don't make it painfully obvious you're
| spying on exactly where I go and when to do what.
| Symbiote wrote:
| I felt it was significantly more creepy when I received
| "How is <tourist attraction>?" messages _at home_. I can
| see the building from my window, but I didn 't like being
| told.
|
| I've had the location history disabled since it was
| possible to disable it, but I've since disabled all the
| notifications.
| soylentcola wrote:
| I think it was more a way to crowdsource reviews and
| recommendation engine. It's certainly worth questioning the
| use of "unpaid labor" to improve a service, but I don't
| know if I'd call it "spying".
|
| Use of the service essentially boils down to "I tell it
| where I am/where I want to go. It tells me how best to get
| there/how to find the thing I want to find."
|
| I'm not sure how you would do that if you didn't share your
| location and destination/search terms with it.
|
| But yeah, I disabled that thing too. Not because I
| considered a request for reviews a terrible overreach, but
| because it wasn't just in the Maps app, but rather a
| notification. I disable notifications on most non-messaging
| apps because they're annoying and naggy.
| unlinked_dll wrote:
| The issue for me is that it would ask me to review places
| I didn't ask for directions to. It would notice I had
| gone through a drive through and ask me to review the
| restaurant. It would ask me to review a furniture store I
| walked past on my way to work.
|
| I don't want an app passively collecting data on me while
| I'm not using it.
| odysseus wrote:
| Were stoplights and stop signs at intersections supposed to be
| part of the redesign?
|
| I still don't see those except in certain areas of the country
| (some parts of NYC/NJ, for example)
| kube-system wrote:
| I see them while navigating. I tried navigating to some rural
| US locations and I see them all the way through the route.
| mdb333 wrote:
| is it at all usable in Dark mode? that's what I really want to
| know...
| mrfusion wrote:
| I wish they'd fix the issue where if I click on reviews it
| prompts me to install the yelp app. I don't want that nonsense.
| ntdb wrote:
| This is the biggest reason I can't completely switch... lack of
| bicycle directions is the other.
| wmeredith wrote:
| Yelp is cancer and I hate that Apple supports them in this way.
| bluenose69 wrote:
| I wonder when it's coming to Canada. Google maps (and openstreet
| maps) are much better than apple maps in terms of buildings, at
| least on the east coast.
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