[HN Gopher] Lasersaur - open-source laser cutter
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Lasersaur - open-source laser cutter
Author : anonsivalley652
Score : 135 points
Date : 2020-02-08 11:58 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (github.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
| chris_wot wrote:
| My brother designed and built his own plasma cutter. I wonder how
| useful people would find that?
| pstuart wrote:
| I'm sure it would at least be _interesting_ to the HN crowd.
| Any link to info on it?
| kragen wrote:
| A 120-watt laser like the one in the Lasersaur can maybe cut
| 6-mm MDF at 50 mm/sec. A typical plasma cutter can maybe cut
| 6-mm mild steel at 50 mm/sec.
| https://www.makeitfrom.com/compare/ASTM-A36-SS400-S275-Struc...
| suggests that A36 mild steel is 25 times as rigid and 25 times
| as strong as MDF.+ So I think that in some sense a plasma
| cutter is about 25 times as useful as a low-power laser cutter
| like this one.
|
| Of course, there are a multitude of other properties to
| consider. Mild steel fails through ductile deformation; MDF
| fails through brittle fracture. Mild steel rusts when it gets
| wet; MDF swells and loses most of its strength. Steel weighs 8
| g/cc, and MDF weighs 0.75 g/cc. (That means that if you can
| make the steel thin enough, you can get the same tensile
| strength as MDF with 60% less weight using steel. You might
| even be able to cut the steel with a laser cutter, though
| probably a higher-power one.) Steel is cold to sit on and not
| breathable like MDF. MDF won't cut your fingers if you don't
| deburr it. Lasersaur claims precision of 30-100 mm, and even
| 100 mm is hard to reach with plasma cutting. Steel rings
| because its elasticity is almost perfect, with a Q over 1000,
| while MDF thuds because it has a lot of elastic hysteresis, so
| it eats vibration for breakfast; by the same token, though, it
| is not suitable for high-precision positioning. Lasersaur can
| cut some transparent materials, while a plasma cutter can only
| cut metals. And plasma torches are kind of dangerous but far
| less treacherous than a 100-watt laser.
|
| But, at the crudest, most oversimplified level, you can build
| things just as fast and 25 times as skookum with a plasma CNC
| table, or several times as fast and just as skookum, or equally
| skookum and much lighter. And a lot of the same design
| principles carry over, although plasma torches have more
| trouble with sharp corners than laser cutters do, because they
| can't ramp their power down to zero.
|
| + According to that site, A36 has a Young's modulus of 190 GPa
| and an ultimate tensile strength of 480 MPa, though you
| probably don't really want to exceed its yield stress of 290
| MPa. MDF has a Young's modulus of 4 GPa (no word on whether
| that's in-plane or transverse) and a tensile strength of 18
| MPa.
| pcdoodle wrote:
| Hate to plug them but their product is pretty good: glowforge.
| the opposite of open source, it does plug and play for around
| $2,500 with a smaller work area(12x20) and 40W laser. We
| prototype enclosure cut outs with ours. Working with wood and
| acrylic is fun.
| crankylinuxuser wrote:
| And it requires 100% online operations. If your internet craps
| out, so does this device.
|
| Hard pass.
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| Wow, that's gross.
| kragen wrote:
| Glowforge seems like the opposite extreme from "open source",
| though; even an iPhone or an XBox works when the internet goes
| down.
| woadwarrior01 wrote:
| My local hacker space[1] in Dublin has one, although I haven't
| had a need to use it, yet.
|
| [1]: https://www.tog.ie/
| heyguys wrote:
| thats nothing to me
| madc wrote:
| The project seems dead anyway.. last commit was two years ago.
| ensiferum wrote:
| Or perhaps it's... you know... ready. _gasp_
| marcinzm wrote:
| There seems to have been a store for buying components but from
| what I can tell the people behind it all are busy with kids
| nowadays.
| vongomben wrote:
| I met once the group (Austrian, if I recall well). It was a
| thing back in 2013. Never managed to makerbot it
| laser wrote:
| Nice.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| I guessed you might like it!
| jcoffland wrote:
| An LASER cutter is a really productive device to have around.
| It's very easy to create 2D parts.
|
| Another way to go Open-Source for a lot less money (~$1500) is to
| buy a K40 on EBay and refit it with a Buildbotics controller.
|
| The other day I needed a faceplate for an outlet with a circular
| 240v US dryer plug and a two port 120v US plug. I couldn't find
| anything at the hardware store that would work but I found
| drawings for the junction box and plugs online. After an hour or
| two with LibreCAD and CAMotics, I was ready to LASER cut my
| faceplate from 1/4" poplar. I was really happy when it fit
| exactly the first time. Now I keep looking behind the dryer to
| admire my handiwork.
|
| Disclaimer: I'm a creator of CAMotics and Buildbotics.
| momzer wrote:
| Slightly offtopic: is poplar really the best material for an
| electrical wall plate? Wouldn't it be flammable? What's the
| dielectric withstand going to be like for a wooden wall plate
| in a humid environment like a laundry room?
| mrfusion wrote:
| The home page might be more informative:
| http://www.lasersaur.com/
| MR4D wrote:
| I'll second that. The HN title page just says this:
|
| "
|
| Lasersaur -- open source laser cutter
|
| The Lasersaur website is in the gh-pages branch and mapped to
| www.lasersaur.com. "
| mrfusion wrote:
| Can anyone say what it might cost to build one? Where do you buy
| the laser?
| detaro wrote:
| they have a page with few suppliers listed:
| https://github.com/nortd/lasersaur/wiki/bom
| misthop wrote:
| According to the home page (linked down thread edited: linked
| by you!) it is fully diy. They gave a bill of materials,
| construction directions, etc, but you source and build it all
| yourself. They list an estimated cost of 7000 usd/eur depending
| on location.
| flowless wrote:
| You can build it for way lower than that - in their BoM they
| use quite expensive distributors like Misumi - if you only
| source your steppers from other places that's already
| hundreds saved. If you buy the laser tube and power supply
| from China it's few thousands shaved off (the only problem is
| the risky shipping of fragile laser tube).
| mrfusion wrote:
| Interesting. I wonder how that compares to buying one for
| $7000?
| anonsivalley652 wrote:
| You can buy a lot of laser cutter for $7000, but it's
| closer to $8000.
|
| Heck, you can get a greenbullv2/bluechick router/laser
| etching (not a great cutter) kit for $9000.
| mrfusion wrote:
| Your heck statement went higher in price .... typo?
| misthop wrote:
| Nope, they are saying once you are spending 8000 it's
| worth it to go up another 1000 for a fairly major upgrade
| marcinzm wrote:
| As far as I can tell it's more expensive than getting a
| cheap one from China in that power range. The China ones
| vary in quality and usually require some hacking but this
| one you need to assemble from scratch so probably still
| less time investment.
| anonsivalley652 wrote:
| Yup. If one had the cash to burn (puns are mandatory to
| clear out the sigh-ing glands in the sub-cockle nether-
| regions) in a commercial laser cutter, there's always
| Trotec.
|
| https://www.troteclaser.com/en-us/laser-machines/laser-
| cutte...
| detritus wrote:
| Or https://www.epiloglaser.com/ (what I run) or
| https://www.ulsinc.com/ . But if you're in Europe and
| want to support a Euro company (ones I linked are
| American), Trotec's the one to go for.
| [deleted]
| anonsivalley652 wrote:
| The problem with laser modules is that they're expensive,
| fragile, fussy and consume a metric ton of energy.
|
| I saw some 150W+ CO2 tubes drop-shipped directly from the
| manufacturer on AliExpress available with and without power
| supplies. These are water cooled so you'll need a very clean
| water cooling setup too.
|
| http://www.recilaser.com/en/index.php?m=&c=Index&a=lists&cat...
|
| It's doable, but careful engineering principles have to be
| applied. Also, Class 4 lasers in the US require a lock and a
| very simple, contactor-based, big red emergency stop power kill
| switch would be a good idea too. Industrial emergency buttons
| can be found on AliExpress, eBay and AliBaba. Anyone with
| common sense will slap some biggun "Class 4 laser in operation"
| lights with some andons at all possible entrances and tie it in
| to the unit operating. Might be good to have some proven tested
| safety gargles to protect yer peepers and wear welding
| gloves/neck/chaps when nearby during operation.
|
| I figure a small budget gantry and system maybe had for $2500
| US (with lots of scrimping and repurposing) or a nicer one for
| $4000-9000. A vacuum table, indexing (calibration/zeroing)
| system and 60deg tilt table for floorspace compactness might
| help too.
| mlyle wrote:
| > These are water cooled so you'll need a very clean water
| cooling setup too.
|
| This can be a $20 immersion pump, a 5 gallon bucket, a
| filter, and some tubing. This won't let you cut all day long
| in a warm room without a slope off in performance, but you
| can run several long jobs a day.
|
| If I wanted to cut more, I think I'd add more water before
| doing anything fancier like radiators or even chillers.
|
| Slightly harder is the air assist, but again cheap pumps will
| do it, and then there's the exhaust system-- usually you use
| a small industrial blower and dryer vent.
|
| > Class 4 lasers in the US require a lock and a very simple,
| contactor-based, big red emergency stop power kill switch
| would be a good idea too. Industrial emergency buttons can be
| found on AliExpress, eBay and AliBaba. Anyone with common
| sense will slap some biggun "Class 4 laser in operation"
| lights with some andons at all possible entrances and tie it
| in to the unit operating.
|
| Usually one just makes it class 1-- put it in a box, with a
| window opaque to infrared, and an interlock that disables the
| beam if the box is opened.
|
| E-stop is important because you _will_ eventually have a
| fire.
|
| > A vacuum table,
|
| The whole nice thing with a laser is you don't need hold down
| because there's no cutting forces.
|
| > indexing (calibration/zeroing)
|
| Usually what you do is just combine a red diode laser onto
| where the beam goes. I do have a square fence I added to my
| laser that I can align work against, but I usually don't use
| it.
| eebynight wrote:
| Is it just me or can anyone else not find the source for the
| Driveboard?
|
| I'm an electrical engineer and I love looking at boards like this
| but it seems like the linked github is just a manual at best.
| misthop wrote:
| The 7000 price point is an interesting middle ground. That is
| past the hobbyist range and into small industrial cutter range.
| So trading works out of the box and a warrantee for bed size and
| wattage
| mondoshawan wrote:
| For that price you might as well get a proper laser cutter from
| glowforge or that Colorado corp whose name escapes me which
| includes an exhaust plan as well as saftey interlocks.
| mlyle wrote:
| Not sure about the Colorado corp. But I have a 40W laser
| cutter from Full Spectrum Laser (Las Vegas) which cost me
| ~$1700. (Their hobby series laser, which got much more
| expensive afterwards). Now they have their "Muse" which seems
| pretty nice for ~$2800.
| kragen wrote:
| But Glowforge doesn't give you an _open source_ laser cutter;
| rather the opposite extreme -- their product is nonfunctional
| without its constant surveillance-capitalism umbilical back
| to the mothership. This is like suggesting buying a
| motorcycle to someone who 's looking for a bulldozer.
| cstross wrote:
| "Do not stare into laser beam with remaining eyeball."
|
| Seriously, this sort of project is _dangerous_. While there 's a
| big fat disclaimer and warning on their home page, the wiki info
| about exhaust filtration is sketchy at best, and there doesn't
| seem to be any sort of serious attempt at health and safety
| guidelines.
|
| Remember: any laser cutter that can actually cut wood can
| actually cut skin and muscle, cause serious burns, boil your eye
| in your skull, and creates toxic particulate exhaust.
| anonsivalley652 wrote:
| _Not to be operated by fuckwits._ - sticker AvE.
|
| Go back to your safe space under the covers while other people
| will use their brains to actually make things and ignore FUD
| from non-makers reacting out of fear and ignorance that you try
| to barf uncool Culture of No toxicity into the world. This is
| why we can't have model rockets, chemistry sets or anything fun
| because of people like you.
| dang wrote:
| Personal attacks will get you banned here. Please make your
| substantive points thoughtfully. Posting like this destroys
| the community no matter how right you are, so it's not ok on
| HN.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| ben_w wrote:
| More worryingly, it's possible to buy pre-built laser etchers
| online that don't come with safety glass:
| https://www.amazon.com/Compact-Engraver-LaserPecker-Engravin...
|
| And Q-switched pulse lasers for hair removal (i.e. to be aimed
| at your face) whose included safety goggles are more than a
| little suspicious: https://youtu.be/-BeTq99LqUo
| snarfy wrote:
| They don't come with safety glass, but 'safety' glasses,
| which I recognize as brazing/welding glasses. They are
| absolutely the wrong color to protect from that blue led
| laser.
| detritus wrote:
| You should see how some low budget Chinese factories that
| pump out laser-cut cards (etc) operate.
|
| I've seen videos of workers huddled in a small room operating
| wholly unshielded galvonometer-type lasers (as in the sort
| that were popular in laser shows in the 80s.. but with lasers
| designed to actually cut) without any extraction, using bits
| of corrugated card to manually waft away fumes.
| detritus wrote:
| I'm with anonsivalley652, who has had his response here killed
| - for sure, lasers can be dangerous, but caveat emptor, and all
| that.
|
| I've a plan for a type of laser rig I've never seen before and
| as soon as I have the readies I'm going to try and build it.
| The more information that is out there from people in the same
| boat, the better and ultimately - safer.
| avian wrote:
| I've stopped going to Makerfaire-like events because home-
| made laser cutters seem to be the thing now and I'm vary of
| visiting hackerspaces. I've seen too many of these things out
| in the open with zero protection, just waiting to blind some
| random onlooker. A lot of people building these have zero
| respect for eye safety.
| detritus wrote:
| Well that IS stupid - I'm a little surprised the organisers
| allow it.
| jedieaston wrote:
| That's mind-boggling considering the amount of children
| that go to those events. You'd think they'd have more
| safety regulations before someone gets their kid blinded
| when they just wanted to show them cool technology.
| sandworm101 wrote:
| And then ten years later. after seeing TopGun IV, one of
| those kids wants to become a fighter pilot. "Sorry kid,
| the optometrist just discovered your right eye has a huge
| blind spot in blue wavelengths. You will never fly, and
| you might want to think twice about driving after dark."
| One slight accident as a kid can vastly alter future
| career paths. Safety equipment or not, children simply
| should not be around lasers at these powers.
|
| Lasers like this, even diffuse reflections of the working
| surface, can instantly and permanently give you color-
| specific blind spots. The human brain quickly fills in
| the gaps. After a couple days you will think all is fine.
| Your standard eye-doctor visit might not turn up
| anything. Only years later, when you get a colour-
| specific field test, do you finally realize that you just
| don't see blue/red from one direction.
| detritus wrote:
| I've been working with lasers for a decade now, no
| problems - up until a few months back.
|
| I had the Worst Cold I've ever had, and had to drag
| myself in to the studio on a couple of occasions to run a
| couple of cutting jobs. Deadlines.
|
| Feeling as awful as I was, I had a couple of Ibuprofen
| (Advil in the States, I believe) and tried to get on.
| Checking a job that was cutting I peeked at the machine -
| which has a protective clear plastic screen, as I have a
| thousand times before - and then got on with things. When
| I walked away from the machine I realised I had a small
| artefact in the centre of my left eye's vision.
|
| It was clearly the reflected light from the cut, in a
| v-shape, about 3mm high at arm's length. Sort of like the
| seed of a visual migraine.
|
| It didn't go away.
|
| It wasn't huge, but it was incredibly bothersome - if I
| winked with that eye open and tried to read, this
| artefact would block the centre of focus, making reading
| very difficult.
|
| It still didn't go away.
|
| I started researching light blindness, lasers and even
| reactions to nuclear flashes and such, trying to
| ascertain whether I was now permanently slightly-blind.
|
| In this search I happened upon research from the early
| seventies that attributed similar blindness artefacts
| from Ibuprofen consumption.
|
| Months later, it's barely visible and - as you say - my
| brain's routed around the problem, but I still see it in
| certain light conditions and I think it might be with me
| for the rest of my life.
|
| A bit of a bugger.
|
| - ed
|
| incidentally, i've had a few visual migraines spurred by
| looking into the machine over the years - low light
| gloomy conditions (as now here in LDN) and a bright point
| of light seems to set them off for me. I've always
| checked with clients who want to view the process whether
| or not they have visual migraines, and warn them if so.
| Now I also ask if they're on Ibuprofen :\
| tptacek wrote:
| Reading this, it really seems like you entered this
| conversation by amplifying someone who was mocking the
| thread for expressing safety concerns with laser cutters,
| and closed it out by telling a story about how you quite
| probably permanently injured yourself with a laser
| cutter.
| marcinzm wrote:
| >creates toxic particulate exhaust.
|
| And that's if you cut the right material on it, some materials
| will release much much more toxic compounds when burned.
| snarfy wrote:
| The BOM is here:
|
| https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eU_76EaB256B_k3UIFOs...
|
| I'm surprised the laser tube is $1000. It's not much different
| than a light bulb. Sure it is different, but not by that many
| zeros.
| imba404 wrote:
| You'll have to factor economies of scale, shipping costs,
| mulitstep glass-blowing steps, and importation duties.
|
| Finally, it's what the market is willing to pay.
| driverdan wrote:
| It _is_ different by that many zeros. They require much tighter
| tolerances and higher quality materials. They 're also not mass
| produced.
|
| You can get cheaper laser tubes but there is a difference
| between them.
| mdorazio wrote:
| That's debatable. I had a laser cutter for a couple years and
| used cheap tubes off eBay with zero issues. Cutting power was
| probably less per watt than with an expensive tube and
| lifetime was lower, but at 1/4 the price it doesn't really
| matter.
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(page generated 2020-02-08 23:00 UTC)