[HN Gopher] Rollerball pens that use fountain pen ink
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Rollerball pens that use fountain pen ink
Author : toymachine
Score : 94 points
Date : 2020-02-09 14:10 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (unsharpen.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (unsharpen.com)
| filleduchaos wrote:
| As someone that still fills a notebook roughly every three
| months, these pens are actually pretty nifty. Most regular
| ballpoints aren't ergonomic at all (I don't know how to describe
| it, but they take way too much force to write with and that leads
| to hand cramps in a long writing session). Rollerballs are way
| easier on the hand, and I tipped over to buying refillable ones
| because someone introduced me to J. Herbin ink and now I hate
| writing with anything else.
|
| I'm still very much a pen noob though - I just like vivid ink and
| not having a cramp after half an hour of steady writing.
| qrbLPHiKpiux wrote:
| I always go back to a Pilot G2 07. Always. So I just stay.
| twic wrote:
| Have you tried the Pilot C4?
| sarora27 wrote:
| I love my Pilot G2. Though i prefer the 0.5 or even 0.38
| yumraj wrote:
| Try fountain pen, they are much more easier to write, as in
| even less effort.
|
| Especially if you go with a medium nib.
| mattlondon wrote:
| Alternatively I significantly prefer pencil to any pen
| (fountain or otherwise).
|
| Very low friction, super-quick to scribble stuff down, easily
| erased etc. Even the cheapo mechanical pencils are pretty
| decent IME
| slowmovintarget wrote:
| One of the features of a properly tuned fountain pen is
| that require zero friction or pressure to write. The reason
| for this is that they transfer ink to paper via capillary
| action so mere contact should be enough to put a line on
| the page.
|
| I can't say erasure is a typical ability in fountain pen
| inks. In fact if you look into Noodler's Inks (two of the
| rollerballs mentioned come from Noodler's Inks) you'll
| notice that the creator of those inks leans the other way,
| toward forgery-proof, water-proof, tamper-evident,
| archival-quality, fade-resistant inks. Use those, and you'd
| be able to prove that you wrote it, and no one would be
| able to alter it.
|
| That said, Noodler's provides "waterase" inks for use on
| material like whiteboards. Wipe the text away with a wet
| cloth.
|
| I've recently taken to using a TWSBI Eco (fine) at work for
| note taking. I write maybe two to three pages a day. What
| amazed me about it is that the nib felt like using a
| pencil! It is tuned to run smoothly across the page, but
| provide a very subtle feedback to give it that feel.
| sizzle wrote:
| My nibs are always getting clogged and feel dull like it
| starts to lack the precision it once had where the nib once
| felt like it was exquisitely carving into the paper. Any tips
| on good nib hygiene or how to restore nibs?
|
| I only have used Lamy fine and extra fine nibs, any
| recommendations for other companies?
| Al-Khwarizmi wrote:
| Coarser nibs are harder to clog. Changing ink to a more
| liquid one can also help, and sometimes a given ink just
| does not go well with a given nib. I don't use the same
| nibs as you do but you can search forums for ink
| recommendations for your specific nibs.
|
| If you want another fountain pen, I recommend the Platinum
| Century #3776. It has a locking mechanism that prevents ink
| from drying so it prevents clogging when the pen is not
| used for a few weeks. For me it works like a charm.
|
| PS: Keep in mind that Japanese nibs like the Platinum are
| finer than European nibs. So for example a Platinum M
| should feel roughly like a Lamy F.
| fishmaster wrote:
| I absolutely cannot stand medium nibs, it's horrible for
| smaller or narrow handwritings. Also, with a decent quality
| paper F nibs are just as comfortable to write with.
| Enginerrrd wrote:
| Agreed. Fine is my jam. EF is too fine for everyday writing
| but is great for more artistic penmanship.
| bayindirh wrote:
| Try a Kaweco or Lamy medium nib with a Kaweco or Lamy blue
| ink. It doesn't write bold. Same can be said with Lamy nib
| + Lamy black ink.
|
| Medium can mean a lot of things. My Parker Vector's medium
| nib with Parker's own ink is equal to broad on many other
| manufacturers. Kaweco's medium is almost equal to Lamy's
| fine.
|
| All nibs become quite comfortable after they are shaped by
| your hand and writing :)
| hoorayimhelping wrote:
| Interesting. I use Muji gel ink ballpoint pens, typically 0.7mm
| tips, and they are they first pen I've found that hasn't given
| me cramps (found 0.5mm to be too scratchy feeling). So I
| haven't really looked much beyond them.
|
| The comments in this thread lead me to the wikipedia article
| for rollerball pens, which mentions the ink being the main
| reason the pens require less pressure to write and therefore
| produce less stress on the hand.
|
| Either way, I love Muji pens and Muji pads. Finding them has
| led me to actually start writing, which has led me to keeping a
| dev journal.
| skat20phys wrote:
| My experience with gel ink pens is that they're incredibly
| smooth to write with but that you go through refills a lot
| more often than with ballpoint or rollerballs.
|
| I've settled on a Retro 51 Tornado. Nice price when I've
| bought them and they take a lot of different refills.
| allovernow wrote:
| Why don't you try a mechanical pencil? A small diameter like
| .5mm is silky smooth, easily refillable, erasable, and you can
| get a nice ergonomic drafting pencil like a Pentel GraphGear,
| which feels really good in the hand.
| mrob wrote:
| >A small diameter like .5mm is silky smooth
|
| The only mechanical pencil lead I've found that matches the
| smoothness of a good rollerball or fountain pen is Pilot Neox
| in 4B. Although it's my favorite pencil lead, it has the
| significant disadvantage of smudging easily.
| grawprog wrote:
| I'm not a big fan of mechanical pencils myself, but i've
| found drafting pencils, similar to these to be nice.
|
| https://www.amazon.ca/Mars-STAEDTLER-Technical-Pencil-
| Set/dp...
|
| They've got the pros of both mechanical and standard
| pencils without the flaws of both. I use one for writing
| and sketching and i've had the same pencil for 12 years now
| and still use it to this day. The refills can be a bit
| tricky to find though in stores. Art supply stores
| sometimes have them and i've seen them at places like
| staples.
| ryanobjc wrote:
| I guess I don't quite get it. The inks are the least good thing
| about fountain pens - the ink drys slow and often doesn't well on
| cheap paper.
|
| I personally love fountain pens. The style, the tech, the
| aesthetic, everything. So this to me seems like a step back - and
| the writing end breaks every 20-30 fills!
| filleduchaos wrote:
| Don't use cheap paper then?
|
| (half-sarcastic)
| ryanobjc wrote:
| Actually no I don't!
|
| Good paper doesn't even have to be too expensive either.
| Maybe more than a college ruled notebook. But I don't take
| copious notes so something aesthetically nice to use is a big
| plus for me.
| mrob wrote:
| How well a fountain pen writes on cheap paper depends very much
| on the ink. Several years ago, when I first became interested
| in fountain pens, I exchanged ink samples with other
| enthusiasts, and tried many different inks. I had the best
| results with Noodler's Black, which avoided feathering or
| bleed-through even on cheap paper. I got through a 3oz jar of
| it, and I'm currently using a 3oz jar of Noodler's Bad Black
| Moccasin, which I don't like as much. Next jar will be the
| normal Noodler's Black again.
|
| Nib size also makes a difference; this was with an extra fine
| nib on a Lamy Safari.
| slowmovintarget wrote:
| I'm currently working my way through a bottle of Noodler's
| Dark Matter. Really well behaved ink, though I'll likely
| trade-up to Noodler's X-Feather (anti-feather black) or plain
| black.
|
| I have samples of Noodler's 54th Massachusetts and Lexington
| Gray that I'm looking forward to trying.
| hjrigirk wrote:
| The advantage of fountain ink is that it flows with minimum
| pressure, you barely need to touch the paper. This is noticable
| if you write for hours, but few do these days.
| throw0101a wrote:
| Accompanying video with some writing samples:
|
| * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lBPfSTC_p8
| itronitron wrote:
| If anyone knows of a 1mm rollerball that can handle acrylic
| (pigment-based) ink please post it here. While Molotow has
| several nice pen nibs they are plastic and wear out sooner than I
| would like.
| jonrx wrote:
| I went a little overboard with fountain pen ink a few years back
| and stopped using fountain pens until recently. I'm left handed,
| but my wrist placement (underhanded) doesn't cause any problems
| with ink smear. I found that using them for notes and summaries
| "slows me down" and I process information better. YMMV.
|
| I use the Herbin ballpoint for quick notes and I really like it.
| For longer sessions, I'll whip up a Pilot Vanishing Point as I
| find that the added flex causes less fatigue. I also ordered
| Yookers felt tip pens that takes FP ink (https://yookers-
| shop.com/). I love the Sharpie pens, so if they feel the same, I
| might just hoard them and slowly empty my ink collection.
| Pamar wrote:
| There is also a small scale producer that is not listed in the
| article: Kakimori (Tokyo).
|
| https://kakimori.com/english
|
| I own one of their ink pens but I use it rarely so I can't say
| much about durability.
| thom wrote:
| Yes! If there's one thing I always wanted out of good pens that
| don't leak or cause a mess, it's a way to make them leak and
| cause a lot of mess. Finally!
| slowmovintarget wrote:
| You're not very familiar with modern fountain pens, are you?
|
| Most don't leak, and if you are really finicky about mess (like
| I used to be before children) you can fill them with a
| syringe... not a stray drop anywhere.
|
| The utility (and cost-effectiveness in many cases) of bottled
| inks, and avoiding the landfill waste of using cartridges is
| worth the extra effort in cleaning and maintaining a fine
| instrument.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| I work in a job where I have to sign things with a fountain pen
| for etiquette reasons. I wonder if this will give the same effect
| as a fountain pen but be more practical.
| egypturnash wrote:
| Probably not, all your signatures will be with nice ink, sure,
| but they'll still look like ballpoint signatures rather than
| fountain pen signatures.
| GuiA wrote:
| It depends if it's the act of signing itself that is
| ceremonalized, or the quality of the ink on the paper.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| What matters is that it appears to have been a fountain pen
| when the recipient receives it. That's probably a
| combination of ink viscosity, pressure on the paper, things
| like that.
| bayindirh wrote:
| UniBall's vision elite pens shade like a fountain pen. I
| think it's mostly ink's behavior but it needs testing.
| jfim wrote:
| Out of curiosity, what role/industry is that?
| GuiA wrote:
| FWIW, it's going away with the newer generation, but anyone
| in France over the age of 40-50 from an upper middle/higher
| class education would likely follow similar etiquette. Not
| sure if it's still the case, but French students were
| required to use fountain pens from 1st grade till at least
| high school when i was growing up (as a leftie, being
| schooled by old school teachers who made you redo any
| assignment that had smeared ink was painful).
| yardie wrote:
| Our son was still required to write with a fountain pen and
| was graded on penmanship. He was in the French education
| system to CM2 until we moved to the US 3 years ago.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| The Army - supposed to top and tail letters, especially
| social letters, with a fountain pen. Ballpoints are crass.
| dboreham wrote:
| Social letters?
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Invitations, letters of introduction, thank yous, things
| like that.
| partisan wrote:
| Thank you for that tiny glimpse into a different world.
| SlowRobotAhead wrote:
| Am I missing the point here?
|
| >You might be wondering, why is this a question?
|
| Why yes, exactly my thought, please tell me...
|
| >If you check out Unsharpen's Ink Types Guide, you'll see that
| while rollerball ink is great, fountain pen ink is quite special.
|
| Oh, ok, so I'll follow that link, and...
|
| >It is, of course, the ink used in fountain pens, but it takes
| thousands of forms. The ink can be in a bottle or cartridge, it
| can be iron gall or water-based, it can be handmade or produced
| by the vat, it can be lubricated, fluorescent, quick-drying, or
| any number of other qualities. [...] Fountain pen inks are a
| looser, more watery consistency compared to all other pen inks.
| This means they are free-flowing and prone to splashing, forming
| droplets, and doing other things that have been known to ruin
| countless shirts.
|
| Ok... So if I an to recap... The only real reason to use a ball
| pen with fountain ink is so I can refill it with whatever ink I
| like? OK, HN, I have some particular interests as well, but this
| is about the article of least importance I've ever seen on here.
|
| It's as if all my other problems in life have been solved and I
| can be a pen/ink hipster? Maybe for someone, but I guess I'm just
| not there yet!
| ryanobjc wrote:
| Looks like you got downvoted to hell and that makes sense to
| me...
|
| After all you're on hacker news the site for people who are
| obsessive about things no one else cares about.
|
| Threading models? (Or any programming thing you're into) Sure.
| Whatever. Won't save you from 2019-nCOV or global warming or
| nuclear war.
| iancmceachern wrote:
| I thought the exact opposite. This is one of those cases where
| my professional interests (being a tech employee, product
| designer) and personal interests come together. I was super
| excited and happy to see this post. I havent been more excited
| about a post on HN for quite a while. For more detail I will
| paste my recent comment on a semi related HN topic (using text
| files and an organization method, which I dont, but I do use an
| old school notebook).
|
| I do something similar but with paper and pen. I purchase
| customized laboratory notebooks that have my name and a serial
| number embossed on the front and otherwise blank pages. I write
| down every meeting I attend (or call into), the date and time
| of their start and stop, all the attendees names, as well as
| regular to do lists, action items, etc. After years of doing
| this I have a nicely curated collection of notebooks that look
| great on the shelf and give me a sense of pride and history on
| my work. I took the inspiration from George Washington's diarys
| which are in the library of congress. I also use a fancy
| fountain pen with beautiful blue ink which my wife purchased
| for me that adds an extra bit of personality to the whole
| experience. https://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/0010/gwdiary.html
|
| So I downvoted!
| momirlan wrote:
| why are you wasting your time reading it, if you have so many
| important problems to solve ?
|
| and why devote your important time to respond to it, and judge
| it from your high vantage point ?
|
| please carry on saving the world, we're relying on you
| OnACoffeeBreak wrote:
| I'm not into pens, so maybe sometime who is can shed light on
| the specifics. In general, I see this as any other hobby that
| can be taken to obsessive levels. I see it as similar to, for
| example, building your own PC and making sure all parts are
| color matched and all cables are routed in an esthetically
| pleasing ways, or growing Bonsai.
| bransonf wrote:
| You can draw a close parallel to mechanical keyboards. If you
| spend all day behind a keyboard, it makes sense to invest in
| a good experience. If you spend all day writing, it makes
| sense to have a nice pen.
| fishmaster wrote:
| If you value handwriting, it makes sense to invest in a good
| pen and high-quality paper. I have a decent fountain pen and
| notebooks and it not only makes handwriting more fun, I also
| noticed that I remember more of what I write down than when
| using a PC.
| coherentpony wrote:
| To each their own.
| filleduchaos wrote:
| There are many people who would react to some tech folks'
| passion for mechanical keyboards in much the same way you have
| here. I wonder if you'd think those people are being absurdly
| dismissive of experiences outside their own for no real reason.
| ThePhysicist wrote:
| Nice, I was looking for something like this. I currently use a
| Lamy Al-Star with an ink converter (to use ink from a bottle
| instead of single-use cartridges). Really great for writing but
| sometimes I miss the speed and fluidity of a rollerball. Lamy
| also offer rollerball pens but only with single-use cartridges
| that are ridiculously overpriced (I think around 3 EUR for a
| single cartridge which might last a few weeks to months) compared
| to normal ink, which costs around 3-5 EUR for 30 ml and will last
| several years. My writing fills roughly one 100 page notebook per
| year, in addition I write down a lot of things on scrap paper as
| well.
| ryanobjc wrote:
| Try a broader nib - with a larger surface it's less scratchy.
| Also your nib probably needs a smoothing and tune up too!
| There's many resources online to learn how to do that. In short
| very fine abrasives.
| sizzle wrote:
| All my nibs are failing, please share any trusted guides that
| aren't just cleaning the reservoir with soap and water.
| ianai wrote:
| OT but on topic of choosing writing instruments. My personal go
| to are the pilot G2 rollerball gel ink pens - preferably 1 mm
| tip. They feel very smooth. Look more authoritative somehow too.
| Can be bought by he dozen.
| odiroot wrote:
| Hah! I use exactly the same model as pictured. It's just so
| pleasant to write with. And even works for lefties like me.
| ryanobjc wrote:
| I thought the ink drying speed was an issue for lefties and the
| resultant smear. These pens don't seem to solve it... same ink
| after all.
| odiroot wrote:
| Hmm, not sure, it works for me. I mostly use Pelikan dark
| green or black ink. Seem to work well enough for me.
| slowmovintarget wrote:
| There are fast-drying fountain pen inks designed especially
| for left-handed overwriters. Have a look at Noodler's
| Bernanke series, for example:
| https://noodlersink.com/product-tag/fast-drying/
|
| Funny story, the inks are named that as a commentary on
| Quantitative Easing. So much cash had to be printed so
| quickly, you see, that Bernanke really needed the ink to dry
| really fast...
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