[HN Gopher] The coming IP war over facts derived from books
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The coming IP war over facts derived from books
Author : awinter-py
Score : 62 points
Date : 2020-02-11 19:06 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (abe-winter.github.io)
(TXT) w3m dump (abe-winter.github.io)
| PeterisP wrote:
| There's no IP war coming over facts derived from books because
| copyright doesn't cover facts derived from books and the other
| forms of IP (trademarks, patents) are even less relevant.
|
| I've done some work with corpus linguistics and quantitative
| linguistics, and large parts of these disciplines essentially are
| about facts derived from books in some manner. Modern approaches
| tend to involve machine learning, deep neural networks and other
| things fashionable on hackernews, but in general that's an old,
| traditional area that was working on facts derived from books for
| decades before the "ML era".
|
| To work on facts derived from books, we're sourcing all kinds of
| books and other written language, such as newspapers. Some
| publishers and authors are cooperative and helpful for such
| research, some are uncooperative and prefer to intentionally make
| working on their sources difficult - but in any case, even in the
| case of disagreement and conflict there's no " _IP_ war ", the
| conflict in our case tends to be about practical convenience of
| access, not about IP, because they don't really have a leg to
| stand on in claiming a copyright violation. They hold the
| copyright on the original text, which gives them certain
| exclusive rights, there's a bunch of intermediary data that we
| can't make available to public without their permission, but
| these rights don't extend to facts derived from that text, and we
| legally don't need their permission to work on, analyze,
| transform, publish and use stuff based on facts in the text or
| facts about the text, we can do that openly even if they've
| explicitly made it clear that they don't want us to do that.
| That's nothing new, that's established law that probably predates
| modern computers.
| Doctor_Fegg wrote:
| > copyright doesn't cover facts derived from books
|
| EU database right can and does.
| mehh wrote:
| Are there any instances of that actually happening, in
| regards to a book being treated as a database?
|
| It kinda makes sense, Guinness Book of Records, being an
| example.
| brlewis wrote:
| A single fact isn't protected by copyright, but if I understand
| correctly, collections of facts are, if creative work is
| involved. The article seems to describe digesting all the facts
| in a book, and making them available to third parties in a way
| that competes with the book itself. I can see copyright being
| an issue there.
| vanniv wrote:
| The classic example of this in copyright law is the recipe.
|
| A recipe can not be protected by copyright. This is one of
| the reasons that online recipe pages have turned in to long
| personal stories with (incidentally) a recipe at the bottom.
|
| A recipe book, however, does have protection -- due to the
| creative work found in organizing the recipes, choosing which
| ones to include and to out near each other, and any creative
| work associated with introductions, photos, or other new
| expression.
|
| That means that legally, you could buy a ton of recipe books,
| and then make your own by copying and pasting just the ones
| you like. You could use the recipes unchanged, but you can't
| reuse the photos or any descriptive text, or anything but the
| bare recipe.
|
| Similar logic should apply to the publication or reuse of
| bare facts.
|
| Of course, law is complicated and nuanced, and
| lawyers/judges/legislators don't always understand new
| technology well enough to apply existing principles properly
| to new worlds
| changoplatanero wrote:
| Pretty sure that ML is adding billions of dollars of value in ad
| ranking
| tristanho wrote:
| The system described by the author of this post actually already
| exists, and was indeed created by google:
|
| https://books.google.com/talktobooks/
|
| It's just really not that good (yet)...
| ggm wrote:
| I always liked that many of the ancients words are only known
| because somebody writes _" plato tells us that socrates said..."_
| which is in context, pretty much what monetising the actual
| semantic intent of those scanned books would be.
| fergie wrote:
| This article makes no sense. Quality non-fiction books have
| always cited other quality non-fiction books and this is a Very
| Good Thing.
| michaelt wrote:
| Maps are collections of facts about road locations, and if I
| write directions based on a map, doing so doesn't infringe on
| the map producer's copyright.
|
| But if I'm starting a map company, and I scan in and trace the
| roads in my competitors' maps? I'd say that's less clear cut -
| and may well be copyright infringement, even though I'm
| extracting facts from their publication and creating a new
| publication containing the same facts.
|
| If I use an entire copyrighted book to train an AI, is it more
| like the first example, or more like the second?
| topspin wrote:
| I wish I shared your certainty but ours is the age of the rent
| seeker. They don't care about 'Good.' They want to get paid and
| if there is _any_ remotely feasible way to impose themselves
| they will, tradition be damned.
| jbj wrote:
| The author makes a side note about getting access to gmail.
| aren't there at least a handful of third party services that
| require access to content of gmail?
| bambax wrote:
| Where do "facts derived from books" come from? Archives and
| original research. Wouldn't it make more sense, and be
| economically (and legally) more defensible to index those primary
| sources, than books?
| Nasrudith wrote:
| That complaint about books and stealing personally strikes me as
| deeply silly even by permission culture standards. The whole
| point of books is to learn from them. Proper summarization
| already separates plagerism from original content (even if it is
| preferrable to provide citations). It doesn't matter how it is
| derived - either the end product is fair use or it is effectively
| unauthorized publishing from including too much source content.
|
| We should be rejoicing at the ability to have an assistant that
| digests the world's libraries not worrying that someone might
| make a profit off of it without permission.
| jacinabox wrote:
| Deliberately creating uncertainty around the copyright in ML-
| created works (through legislation), would be a low-key and
| indirect way of impeding the automation of creative work. Not
| that I'm advocating it.
| miker64 wrote:
| But we won't have an assistant that digested the world's
| libraries. We'll have an advertising company gatekeeping the
| digitally digested world's libraries.
|
| I think that's worth worry about. As well, if Google in their
| drive to monetize content that they don't own, causes the
| various publishers and IP owners to go on the legal attack, any
| other option/startup will be quickly dissuaded from building a
| similar, or better, assistant.
| heartbeats wrote:
| > This will do to non-fiction books what youtube did to music:
| drive down the price in ways that makes distribution only
| economical for low-margin platforms. It could give G a monopoly
| on the market and create a disincentive for production of new
| knowledge.
|
| This is just tiresome. Wasn't piracy supposed to doom us all?
|
| It's regrettable to see Google gaining more power, but the
| copyright cartel doesn't have a solid moral standing from which
| to complain.
| ImaCake wrote:
| I particularly like the author's heirachy of information value.
| It applies to what individuals should be reading too. But I would
| probably seperate blogs/articles into "clickbait" and "serious"
| and put the latter category equal with books. It's important to
| be very selective with your internet resources, most of the
| internet reguritates information in a continous and boring cycle,
| while select corners push novel content and engaging ideas.
|
| What does the author mean by "CRS"? Coordinate Reference Systems?
| wmf wrote:
| Congressional Research Service?
| https://crsreports.congress.gov/
| milesvp wrote:
| I'd tend to agree with this categorizing certain free blogs/web
| content above paywalled newspaper content. I can't really
| remember the last time information available from a news
| organization actually allowed me to change my behavior such
| that it helped me achieve any of my long term goals, or even
| modified my long term goals for that matter. Impacts of things
| like extreme weather and economic trends, and recently disease
| trends are about the only thing news is ok for, and even then,
| I find good comment threads give me a better general sense for
| the actual severity of things to come.
| beeschlenker wrote:
| Part II: Impeachment Is A Diversion And Delay - Blocking of the
| "impeachment" witnesses was collusion planned before the new
| year. Listen to an FBI agent's disclosure from Jan 1, 2O2O here.
| President Trump was to resign late summer securing election for
| Biden. See latest updates. ;Here is the zip file, which was also
| made available in the 3Jan2O2O update. The file within is
| VID_20200101_201948.mp3. Turn up the volume and put on
| headphones.
|
| BB10Mp3Footage31Dec1Jan.zip 122.4mb
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IXOOhQhHybwky8Z5pGdr9ZXhWpI...
|
| The dialogue about the impeachment starts near the beginning.
| Having Biden in the White House is as good as Trump or anyone
| else in their organization. Obviously Schiff and Nadler pledged
| their allegiance to the organization by raping boys on the
| record, with their task being to drag out an impeachment designed
| to obstruct and delay any real efforts to remove the President,
| thus keeping Trump in power. The witness blocking was to cause an
| apparent uproar delaying things with legal actions until late
| Summer. Soon after, the President would resign, leaving any other
| candidate with not enough time or support to compete with an
| opportunistic Biden, who is as good as Trump or any other
| Illuminati friendly politician in the Presidency.
|
| 162 page PDF [last updated: February|4|2O2O]:
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S7T_kDv48E40eHzus6CTXHxcm0W...
|
| Previously reported:
|
| \Wag The Dog: first was feigned impeachment hearings meant to
| obstruct, now an attack on Iranians in Iraq. Here is what they
| are trying to distract from & cover up to retain power. $100+
| billion in bribes to the highest offices in this country. 815+
| deaths from child rapes to prove loyalty!
|
| See the latest PDF updates: FBI Director Wray, AG Barr, SoD
| Shanahan, & SoS Pompeo each raped boys and were paid billions in
| bribes for a Soros & Koch funded child rape org. So did Trump &
| his "impeachment" team Nadler,Schiff,Mueller.So did media moguls
| Redstone,Murdoch,Moonves. What are they trying to set up? Who can
| arrest them since they are all bribed and in on it ?
|
| Their strategy to stay in every office and obstruct until forced
| to leave no matter what. Feigning impeachment: see page 13O.
| Kolpempomfr, kdnroiece ce cercew mor,fr, lpo.
|
| \\\if;Download the video/audio file, put on headphones and turn
| up the volume. You will hear these people committing these
| crimes. Audio was broadcast into my apartment by outdated
| surveillance equipment illegally embedded within my walls. This
| very same technology was being used to broadcast me to the
| internet for five years without my consent. I own this footage.
| Please use this to prosecute all found within. Note:: I am
| obliviously speaking throughout the video, and it can be quite
| loud at times relative to the desired content. The are dozens
| more links, including these, that can be found in this PDF last
| updated 4 FEB 2O2O:
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S7T_kDv48E40eHzus6CTXHxcm0W...
|
| All members of the "Illuminati"; "....an underground organization
| of homosexuals and child rapists..." (from pg 26: Barack Obama
| with Jack Dorsey).
|
| President Donald Trump:
|
| Demands a $4 billion dollar bribe here at 10:18am 4thJan2019:
|
| 3JanCh3_900-1100.avi
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Grdr8xF2psKNsuYlEnl9dIRV-77...
|
| 3JanCh2_900-1100-avi
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LUmVygl_q0XVs8h2cWr8jZl-24f...
|
| 3JanCh4_1000-1100.mp3
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZpP1pJbJakBgg-y-MWNozTxp3wJ...
|
| President Trump rapes and kills 12boys, including five boys in a
| "who can rape five boys to death the fastest" game:
|
| 14JanCh3_600.mp3
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ufPmglde9Mep0m6xYMJ9c4TWTjj...
|
| 14JanCh2_600-700.mp3
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/136qLJdEn8eCs9tI4QtIxl4opW_L...
|
| Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi:
|
| Accepting a $3 billion dollar bribe at 1033 am on the 17 Jan 2019
| to ensure Asian boys can get through the border at "Monterrey"
| undocumented to be raped:
|
| 17JanCh3_949-1100.avi
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eodHu4o5Cm3xEWhDqipSuTj-M1C...
|
| 17JanCh4_1017-1100.avi
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y-nWEQbempkVZSz230j9wTyduZN...
|
| Speaker Nancy Pelosi also "preps" boys with First Lady Melania
| Trump, defined as in she performs oral sex on the boys' penis and
| anus, as a child rapist like Henry Porter would, while trying to
| remove fecal matter from the boy prior to handing them over to be
| raped and then subsequently murdered, for Supreme Court Justice
| Samuel Alito, who apparently decides he would rather just have
| ten billion dollars instead. US Attorney for Western New York
| James Kennedy rapes these boys instead:
|
| 12JanCh3_1533-1638.mp3
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AgFkDsbPbI4b5Xd3Wbz2EVNNx25...
|
| Attorney General William Barr with FBI Deputy Director
| Christopher Wray raped and killed boys for billions in bribes in
| Buffalo, NY on the 17Jan2019 at 7:50am:
|
| 18JanCh4_700mp3
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UIdZkS5ZVksZdHYsnHk2t5losi0...
|
| 18JanCh2_700.mp3 gorepqkberqaoper,bqpo,rfbv.
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DFK8IAxm5pQVqZv9L518nfgP7_o...
|
| 18JanCh3_725-.mp3
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DG5ej59Ic8RT9UhbyMdwT0BDcKI...
|
| Secretary of State Michael Pompeo and Secretary of Defense
| Patrick Shanahan each raped and killed boys on 5thJan'19 at 17:39
| for billions in bribes: tionqewncwq. ewqoinmcewcw cwq ece.
|
| 5JanCh3_1600 1800.mp3
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ghgmNrQvJ8WfJ2TsDVx1ruDU36h...
|
| 5JanCh2_1721-1818.mp3
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eSlD4otX4KZqWXboQM92Mu-6J02...
|
| Leaders of the "impeachment" effort Jerrold Nadler, Robert
| Mueller, and Adam Schiff all rape and kill boys between 11:20pm
| and 1:10am:
|
| 14JanCh4_2300-0000.mp3 Nadler starts at about 20mins in-
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kuvv2Zmbw5Jw7onbRI2hCZ0M8FU...
|
| 14JanCh2_2304-2359.mp3
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nofp5xF-aXXcCSgQVwj30KlzE9W...
|
| Mueller at 12:25am, next is Schiff who starts 12:55-ish:
|
| 15JanCh2_000-100.mp3
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EsmHfguwBuo2PbavJ1WYyhiML62...
|
| 15JanCh2_100-200.mp3
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NZnWRnBryalNQu2yJmfJUdS2pA_...
|
| 15JanCh4_000-100.mp3
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZEDJR6jb6ARpcNnWJTokBUKb2J2...
|
| 15JanCh4_100-200.mp3
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/173aYWvWHH4VGht1h_2nM0IMdw74...
|
| Complete Media Protection: Lester Holt, of NBC NightlyNews,
| apparently a member of the Illuminati since the 1980's, along
| with ABC Nightly News lead anchor David Muir, stop over to the
| Porter studio in Buffalo, New York on 14Jan2019 at 5:00 am. They
| both rape and kill about two dozen boys by 6:00 am. Muir starts
| around 5.15am, then Holt about 5:38 am. Multi-billionaire Rupert
| Murdoch, owner of News Corp and also Fox Corporation, takes his
| turn after Holt. Video links below:
|
| 14JanCh3_500-601.avi zijnoijrpotmebr
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i7NKepeyG_FfdQRrM7KsnFOZOOX...
|
| 14JanCh2_530-600.avi
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NZzgN5ilI7ToroU5cfqMaL4o2u1...
|
| Adding to the media protection and reason this is not picked up
| by the media, CBS and Viacom owner Sumner Redstone and Leslie
| Moonves rape and kill boys following the President.
|
| 14JanCh3_700.avi
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/10XDw6x3ldnnQiq7oIjpdYVENyXa...
|
| 14JanCh2_700-800.avi
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NS_e6AzEZ05wnfljkGMETGU5CWY...
|
| 161p PDF [last updated: Feb|4|2O2O]:
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S7T_kDv48E40eHzus6CTXHxcm0W...
|
| \\\\. Please repost in USA! Post gets censored in US
|
| Recently more relevant:
|
| From page 49, Senator Mitch McConnell:
|
| At 1632 Senator Mitch McConnell checks into the Porter camera
| system inquiring if he can be part of the "eviction" for $10
| million dollars. He is informed by group members that there are
| enough people for the event already and his participation is not
| necessary. At 1634 McConnell states "I fucked 15 kids, how am I
| not getting paid by you?" He is dismissed by Donald Reeves with
| "I think that will be all Mr. McConnell."
|
| 13JanCh3_1600-1700.avi
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L7bqOpvaEWmLiJpMhJNQDrfsQAH...
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(page generated 2020-02-11 23:00 UTC)