[HN Gopher] Report to local authority in the UK if you see a kid...
___________________________________________________________________
Report to local authority in the UK if you see a kid using Tor,
VMs, Linux etc.
Author : Santosh83
Score : 227 points
Date : 2020-02-13 18:22 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (twitter.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
| Dim25 wrote:
| That's great, the more kids will play with Kali and other tools
| the better. Rough times ahead, youngsters shall be empowered.
| AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
| "Hey guys, isn't it funny how so many people have no idea what's
| dangerous or not because we, as an industry, do an absolutely
| shit job of helping people understand computing in any meaningful
| way?"
| RealStickman wrote:
| How many people would actually listen if they aren't at least
| mildly interested in technology?
| TallGuyShort wrote:
| Reminiscent of this: http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-
| stop-holding-our...
|
| "I along with many others tried Linux during college"... but I
| never inhaled.
| pgoggijr wrote:
| Don't really see the problem with this - the optimist in me
| believes that this can be helpful for parents who might be in
| over their heads. The leaflet isn't necessarily asking for
| vigilance to put kids on watch lists, just to give parents and
| kids some information on what is/not wrong to do.
|
| "let us know so we can give advice and engage them into positive
| diversions"
|
| Sounds like police actually trying to have a positive impact
| here.
| DharmaPolice wrote:
| >just to give parents and kids some information on what is/not
| wrong to do.
|
| I'm not sure it's helpful to suggest to parents who may be in
| over their head that Discord and Virtual Machines are "wrong to
| do" or even things to worry about.
| pgoggijr wrote:
| I didn't read that it was suggesting these things are wrong,
| but that the police (who I would and it seems here that they
| are) are educated on the topic, and can provide advice and
| materials to potentially prevent wrongdoing here.
| jotm wrote:
| Not the severely underfunded West Midlands police.
| vorpalhex wrote:
| Excuse me, but you seem to be reading the news. By gosh, is
| that.. is that a printing press in your garage there?
|
| Pardon but you'll need to come with us. We need to make
| sure you aren't publishing the _wrong_ sorts of things.
| Don't worry, I'm sure this will get sorted out just fine.
| Nursie wrote:
| There's no advice needed if you find discord on your kid's
| machine, unless you don't want them talking to other people
| at all.
|
| This is a poster that will scare the technically illiterate
| into taking computer access away from their kids.
| protomyth wrote:
| Reporting your kid to the police for non-crimes will not have a
| positive outcome. Your kid will be on a list, never trust you
| again, and have to overcome so many more obstacles. Every
| generation of parents finds something that is "over their
| heads" and they need to deal with it like responsible adults.
| Know what your kid is interested in and not fear monger it.
| Deal with issues like an adult with educating yourself.
| homonculus1 wrote:
| Seconded. Police are not There To Help You. Police enforce
| the law. When in doubt of the law, they simply enforce. Don't
| ever tip someone off to the police unless you have a real
| reason to believe they have or will harm a person.
| pgoggijr wrote:
| I know this is the internet echo chamber, but the police in
| my community, and everywhere I have lived, provide a lot of
| outreach opportunities to under-educated and under-
| privileged (east coast, USA, for reference).
| [deleted]
| protomyth wrote:
| I'm friends with police in a hard to police area, and
| they are good people. It really has nothing to do with
| the normal functioning of their community outreach or the
| individuals themselves. I find my friends are intelligent
| and care about folks.
|
| Its the system you put your kid into by calling the
| police on them. Police don't have choices in a lot cases
| and the system around them has a lot of rules that
| capture people in them for years.
| tomatocracy wrote:
| I don't know if you're in the UK, but this isn't true for
| most of our police, certainly outside the cities. If
| anything, this fact is something they're proud of.
|
| As an example, I called them once (using a non emergency
| number before anyone says anything) because I was worried
| about a vulnerable relative who I couldn't get hold of and
| they were great - went to his house and called back to say
| he was fine, just couldn't hear the phone over the TV.
| keanzu wrote:
| You didn't report a faux crime, you requested a welfare
| check.
|
| But even a wellness check can go exceedingly wrong in the
| US.
|
| "He said he called a non emergency number for a wellness
| check. Smith said minutes later he heard a gunshot."
|
| https://www.npr.org/2019/10/13/769891781/fort-worth-
| officer-...
| rhn_mk1 wrote:
| The US is irrelevant to the situation in the article.
| dragonsky wrote:
| The US seems to have a very strange relationship with its
| police.
| pgoggijr wrote:
| This is what the cynic in me is worried about. As somebody
| who grew up with parents who had no idea what I was doing on
| the computer (no fault of their own, they just didn't have
| access to the tools I did growing up), I can see them being
| worried. Providing advice and materials is exactly what I
| would hope the police would provide to them (which is in-line
| with what this brochure says).
|
| I acknowledge that this brochure _might_ represent fear-
| mongering, but based on what's actually written in the
| brochure, it doesn't sound like the police are looking to put
| kids on a list.
| voldacar wrote:
| in over their heads with what?
| Nursie wrote:
| Having discord on a machine is a sign of being a gamer, or any
| number of other things. VMs have a multitude of legit uses.
|
| These things are not wrong to use, at best what this will do is
| scare idiot parents, and perhaps put some talented, interested
| kids off from learning more about computers as a bunch of
| clueless authority figure in their life freak out about
| completely innocent computer use.
|
| At worst kids will be traumatised, put on watchlists and strain
| could be put on family cohesion.
|
| For nothing.
| pgoggijr wrote:
| While I agree that having Discord should be innocuous, a
| parent who has no idea what Discord is should know that it
| could be used to talk to (potentially dangerous) strangers
| online.
|
| A simple "Hey (son/daughter), the police told me that if
| anybody on Discord tells you to download LOIC, then you're
| probably in with the wrong crowd" is what I would hope would
| come of this (along with the typical internet stranger danger
| shpiel).
|
| I also am scared of the worst case scenario you present, but
| this brochure doesn't seem like that to me.
| Nursie wrote:
| A parent who has no idea what discord is but sees this
| poster is going to get the wrong idea, be suspicious of
| their kid and their kid's computer use, get scared and
| react badly.
|
| "Hey kid stop doing that, turn off the computer we're
| taking it away, I saw that on a police poster" is more
| likely.
|
| You don't tell people to contact the _police_ over
| innocuous stuff like this. It 's ridiculous.
|
| The police in the UK are institutionally ignorant of
| computers and computer use, and this poster is harmful.
|
| (edit: Can you not see this for what it is? Fear and
| ignorance in poster form?)
| cushychicken wrote:
| No such thing as bad press :)
| xet7 wrote:
| Oh no, should all kids that have Raspberry Pi be reported? When
| you see kid using Linux on Raspberry Pi?
|
| https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/made-in-the-uk/
| cs02rm0 wrote:
| Kali Linux is a particular flavour which includes pen testing
| tools, which is why it makes the list, they're not referring to
| all distributions.
|
| Don't make me defend this rubbish! =)
| xet7 wrote:
| Unfortunately this HN article title has "Linux etc", and not
| specifying any specific distro.
| philprx wrote:
| Report your kid if he/she has a brain and is not getting
| brainwashed on Facebook or YouTube.
|
| This kind of thinking is really a bigger problem imho
| vibrafox wrote:
| That's how it starts. One day you're rolling your own kernel, the
| next you're knee deep in Docker writing goroutines to keep one
| step ahead of the police.
| ReptileMan wrote:
| One of the reasons why I supported brexit as non UK european.
| Also their attitude to knives.
| dvh wrote:
| 1. Find which politician uses Android
|
| 2. Report them for using Linux
|
| 3. ???
|
| 4. Profit
| Kubuxu wrote:
| I find this really funny as I had my parents buy me "Hacking: The
| Art of Exploitation" in bookstore when I was 13.
| proactivesvcs wrote:
| Ironically, if a child is seen to be using Windows 10, Android,
| Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, then their parents and guardians
| need to ensure that the children understand that such software
| and online services are a danger to their privacy and mental
| health, and should warn them of how advertising will manipulate
| them and cyberbullying harm them. That these entities do not care
| about them or reducing any potential harm.
|
| Our governments need to be curating or writing guides to help
| parents and guardians teach children about these dangers and how
| to avoid them. Open source software and online services that
| respect the user are entities to cherish and encourage, rather
| than treat like a boogeyman who's earned the title without any
| material evidence.
| josteink wrote:
| But, uh, Russians and fake news, right?
| jpangs88 wrote:
| Also the title sounds funny, "What is on a child's computer?"
|
| As well as the very 1984 like, "engage them into positive
| diversions." Great copy!
| techopoly wrote:
| Reminds me of this article about a student whose property was
| seized because he had computer expertise:
|
| https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/boston-college-prompt-...
| rvz wrote:
| This is close to parody-level solutions here. Although this
| really doesn't represent the whole of the UK but just the West
| Midlands region, the age old assumption that kids on Kali Linux +
| VBox + Discord = Hacking is really beyond comical these days.
|
| Unfortunately, when it comes to some parts of the UK marketing
| their solutions to preventing cybercrime and blackhats, this is
| just one of their finest ideas. /s
| keanzu wrote:
| > this is just one of their finest ideas. /s
|
| Not sure about the /s on the end there. This _was_ the finest
| idea they could come up with as evidenced by them running with
| it and distributing this leaflet. Presumably there were worse
| ideas they considered and rejected leaving this as their finest
| idea. Not a _good_ idea but the best they could come up with.
| mariopt wrote:
| I sincerely hope this won't stop kids from learning about Linux
| and contribute to kernel code.
|
| Labeling Linux as dangerous tool is far from reality.
|
| Parents reading this, let your kids use Linux!
| Rebelgecko wrote:
| If anything, making Linux look dangerous and forbidden will
| encourage more kids to try it out.
| lastres0rt wrote:
| VBox + Discord = Mac Kid who wants to play games only written
| for Windows.
|
| Really top-notch logic there in the UK. Brexit's finest.
| 45ure wrote:
| >Really top-notch logic there in the UK. Brexit's finest.
|
| Relax. This is an example of some jobsworth in West Midlands,
| who has binge-watched Mr. Robot, got carried away trying to
| impress the boss' and released this under the cover of 'Safer
| Internet Day 2020' initiative. It is not a UK policy and it
| is definitely not related to Brexit.
|
| This hasn't made it into the news cycle outside of social
| media, because of other pressing matters like Covid-19,
| storms, cabinet reshuffle etc. Once it does, most tech savvy
| Brits will be having a good laugh, while others will ignore
| the message entirely and start searching for these tools -
| either way it is a non-story.
|
| https://www.saferinternet.org.uk/safer-internet-day/2020
| AdrianB1 wrote:
| It is always sad when you see people not understanding
| humor.
| jotm wrote:
| I lived in the West Midlands... Let's just say CS/IT knowledge
| is severely lacking. On the other hand, if you're fine with a
| rather low wage (but more than enough to live comfortably) and
| being treated as unimportant all the time, there's plenty of
| work around.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| Kali Linux seems to have become popular as an "elite" d00d's
| distro of choice, for whatever reason. In fact, it is
| _specifically_ intended as a penetration-testing tool only and
| not for general-purpose use, because it forgoes some security
| mitigations that you generally want to keep enabled on your
| actual systems.
| skocznymroczny wrote:
| One big reason is the Mr Robot TV series. The main character
| uses Kali Linux for "hacking", and it was quite a popular
| show amongst casual computer users. As a result, many people
| who had limited knowledge about security started installing
| Kali Linux on their laptops so they could be "hackers" too.
| FortCollinsDev wrote:
| So that's how it works!
| big_chungus wrote:
| That's because it comes with stuff pre-installed and an easy
| interface. Apparently, this is enough for people to ignore
| that it uses root as the default user, is not at all stable,
| etc. It shows up on all the crummy "Top 10 Hacker Systems!"
| listicles as the top entry, so people use it. I guess no one
| wants to install ubuntu and add katoolin repos, because
| that's not leet enough.
| smhenderson wrote:
| At least Kali seems to be taking it well... The top reply
| when I just looked at the tweet is from them:
|
| --- Have to admit it's sort of nice they give kids a roadmap
| on where to get started. We all know the easiest way to get a
| kid to do something is to tell them they can't or should not,
| then they list specific item not to do. To bad they did not
| link to https://kali.training ---
|
| As a parent I totally agree!
| klodolph wrote:
| Some people on the Unix & Linux Stack Exchange site have
| created a definitive answer for beginner questions about
| Kali, with the general theme that Kali is incompatible with
| beginners.
|
| https://unix.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/4640/what-
| shou...
|
| https://unix.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5360/why-is-
| ka...
| void_nill wrote:
| Cool kids use Black Arch Linux.
| lastres0rt wrote:
| Way to bury the lede -- DISCORD is considered 1337 Haxor Software
| by these clowns? Really?
| big_chungus wrote:
| It's not, though there are a surprising number of servers that
| sell stuff like hacked accounts, shady coupon codes, etc. Very
| little actual hacking; I don't think I know anyone who uses it
| for anything serious. Also creepy as all get out to tell people
| to call the police on their own children.
| vorpalhex wrote:
| Have you seen how dank the memes are? Clearly if that's not
| proof of illicit activity of the most odious, I don't know what
| is.
| mnm1 wrote:
| This is one way to dumb down the population and fill them with
| fear. Given the current events in the UK, neither of these goals
| are surprising. Anti-intellectualism seems to be rising in many
| parts of the world and is clearly correlated with the rise of
| right wing authoritarianism. It makes sense as authoritarians
| want to keep people stupid and ignorant of what is going on by
| controlling them through fear. This is what happens when the
| culture adopts authoritarian views. The US isn't much better in
| this regard. One can really see the similarities between the
| societies when looking at their worst aspects, authoritarianism,
| anti-intellectualism, and fear mongering.
| dyingkneepad wrote:
| Am I the only one surprised for seeing them mention Discord
| instead of IRC?
| Jonnax wrote:
| It's pretty dangerous to use Virtualbox. Oracle might run after
| you for money.
| 1000units wrote:
| More interesting than the ad itself is how many HN'ers will use
| this as an opportunity to call its creators stupid, thereby
| betraying their autism.
|
| Spoiler: its language reveals that it is a joke, and a pretty
| funny one at that.
| detaro wrote:
| Ad for what?
| Dim25 wrote:
| kali linux? not sure what was the original comment.
| 1000units wrote:
| This might also be a difficult concept for HN'ers, but ads
| aren't only for selling shiny baubles, one's mother, and SaaS
| apps.
| atoav wrote:
| I am generally worried with were most of the anglosphere seems to
| be headed these days. The UK always had an irrational fixation
| towards surrveilance technology, but with a gaze at the political
| developements of the past years this existing infrastructure gets
| a whole new meaning I am afraid
| TheOtherHobbes wrote:
| Yes. We're laughing at the idiocy, but the idiocy is becoming
| more and more entrenched. And more and more idiotic.
|
| And we're also missing the subtext - which isn't specifically
| about using Kali etc, but about the implication that anyone
| clever, curious, and different should be considered dangerous.
| big_chungus wrote:
| Kali's response is pretty funny:
|
| > Have to admit it's sort of nice they give kids a roadmap on
| where to get started. We all know the easiest way to get a kid to
| do something is to tell them they can't or should not, then they
| list specific item not to do. To bad they did not link to
| https://kali.training
|
| Seriously though, I bet they'll get a bunch of people downloading
| this stuff just because it's "forbidden".
| heartbeats wrote:
| > 1. Has your son asked you to change ISPs?
|
| > 2. Are you finding programs on your computer that you don't
| remember installing?
|
| > 3. Has your child asked for new hardware?
|
| > 4. Does your child read hacking manuals?
|
| > 5. How much time does your child spend using the computer each
| day?
|
| > 6. Does your son use Quake?
|
| > 7. Is your son becoming argumentative and surly in his social
| behaviour?
|
| > 8. Is your son obsessed with "Lunix"?
|
| > 9. Has your son radically changed his appearance?
|
| > 10. Is your son struggling academically?
|
| The more things change, the more they stay the same, eh?
| brundolf wrote:
| "Your son may be involved in Fortnite"
| 0xcde4c3db wrote:
| For the uninitiated: "Is Your Son a Computer Hacker?" [1]
|
| [1]
| https://web.archive.org/web/20191111044139/http://www.adequa...
| 0xCMP wrote:
| "I'm scared of hackers because..."
|
| 58% - "They smell bad"
| kossae wrote:
| > Quake is an online virtual reality used by hackers.
|
| This is GOLD!
| big_chungus wrote:
| Wow. I honestly can't tell; is this satire? The sad thing is
| that this remains many people's view of computers. The first
| thing this person is missing is the ingenuity of people who
| want to get around stuff; some crummy filter or lower-powered
| hardware won't dissuade anyone who's curious.
| homonculus1 wrote:
| I thought it was real at first but "Linyos Torovoltos" is
| just too silly. In retrospect the sections on AMD and the
| extensive list of hacker literature are also tells, people
| who think like this generally wouldn't delve into that kind
| of detail.
| AlisdairO wrote:
| It was definitely satire. Adequacy.org as a whole was
| generally in that vein. It caught a lot of bait on the
| Lunix article though :-)
| ducaale wrote:
| Probably a satire
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adequacy.org
| ce4 wrote:
| What a shame, almost all of that wikipedia's link have
| rotten away...
| kick wrote:
| It hasn't rotted, I imagine they're moving hosting
| providers or something. Adequacy was up a few weeks ago,
| I have a friend who links it quite frequently, so I see
| it quite often.
| smhenderson wrote:
| I felt the same, and still am not sure but if it wasn't,
| just wow. It felt like just a naive parent not knowing what
| they're talking about but this one had me really scratching
| my head...
|
| _If your son has requested a new "processor" from a
| company called "AMD", this is genuine cause for alarm. AMD
| is a third-world based company who make inferior, "knock-
| off" copies of American processor chips. They use child
| labor extensively in their third world sweatshops, and they
| deliberately disable the security features that American
| processor makers, such as Intel, use to prevent hacking.
| AMD chips are never sold in stores, and you will most
| likely be told that you have to order them from internet
| sites. Do not buy this chip! This is one request that you
| must refuse your son, if you are to have any hope of
| raising him well._
| RealStickman wrote:
| This is Gold, though I'm not sure if this is satire.
| Especially point 8 sounds like satire, but maybe that's just
| my Linux-infected brain and not what normal people think.
| loopz wrote:
| Is your 8-year old playing Left4Dead2? Please tell'em to turn
| off mic, rq, log off and delete game. This a game for mature
| adult playing!
| mlrtime wrote:
| You wouldn't download a car?
| lozf wrote:
| For some it seems Tom Scott's "Oversight" [0] can't come soon
| enough.
|
| [0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIuf1V1FhpY)
|
| Well worth taking ~2 minutes out of your day for if you havent't
| seen it.
| draugadrotten wrote:
| Let's just hope that parents that are computer savvy enough to
| actually find and identify kali linux on a kid's computer are
| smart enough to talk to their kid instead of snitching on their
| own to the police.
| UI_at_80x24 wrote:
| Something you may not know about Kali:
|
| It is used by the DoD, Canada's DND, and the UK's MoD, and by
| extension I assume all of the 5eyes.
|
| It is the standard tool. This isn't "just because" they saw it on
| Mr.Robot.
| AdmiralAsshat wrote:
| The NSA also thought visitors of LinuxJournal were "extremists,"
| so what else is new?[0]
|
| [0]https://arstechnica.com/information-
| technology/2014/07/the-n...
| e12e wrote:
| Ah, guilt by association.
|
| https://youtu.be/Y0_IME9WsHQ
|
| Pete Seger on being black listed in America, 1965 CBC Archives
| grkvlt wrote:
| no, they don't. anyone who took more than 30s to read further
| than the headlines would see that this is an example of a set
| of checks for users of TAILS and points out that extremists
| often use this. its pretty obvious they don't consider linux
| journal in its own a sign of extremism.
|
| these would be refined to be more useful and then used together
| to check for TAILS_terms in a user's emails and they are also
| accessing TAILS_websites and then in conjunction with other
| flags to find POIs.
| protomyth wrote:
| I'm old enough to remember when Radio Shack was freaking people
| out by not selling them things if they had some unknown
| combination of components bought. They were so damn insistent
| on getting your address. Only store I always paid cash at
| because I was on an electronics kick and my friend had been
| told he was not allowed to buy some combination of components.
| That was friggin hilarious (he was building a controller for a
| pump), and I bought the components at another store location
| (Radio Shack was sadly the only game in town at the time).
| jeffadotio wrote:
| "Have you ever, while running Linux, questioned the teachings of
| the Mormon Church?"
|
| "Micheal, where did you get this?"
|
| "It's from a website."
| mirimir wrote:
| In postwar East Germany, about 1% of the population were
| reportedly informants for Stasi.[0]
|
| I wonder what percentage of parents get caught up in this. I bet
| that it's more than 1%.
|
| 0) https://www.dw.com/en/east-german-stasi-
| had-189000-informers...
| motohagiography wrote:
| Snitch culture is a very dangerous and contemptible thing. It's
| what kept Cuba, NK, and the former soviet empire running. You
| just need to demoralize a small minority to watch over their
| neighbours, reward them with something petty, make a few big
| examples of individuals, and you can create a climate of fear
| to rule with.
|
| Where I grew up, teachers used to punish tellers along side the
| alleged offender because it was bad for society.
| dan-robertson wrote:
| It's somewhat hard to know how many informants the stasi had
| because of the destruction of records. Wikipedia suggests that
| this could have been as high as 500,000 (something like 1 in 30
| people) or up to 2 million (something like 1 in 7) if one
| includes occasional informants
| e12e wrote:
| Oh, be mindful of VMS for sure. Eh, VMs, is it?
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(page generated 2020-02-13 23:00 UTC)