[HN Gopher] Mutable Instruments' Eurorack Modules ___________________________________________________________________ Mutable Instruments' Eurorack Modules Author : krig Score : 170 points Date : 2020-02-25 13:16 UTC (9 hours ago) (HTM) web link (github.com) (TXT) w3m dump (github.com) | franky47 wrote: | Because they are open-source, those modules have been ported to | VCV Rack [1], a virtual instrument aimed at recreating the | Eurorack experience in digital audio workstations. Obviously, | using a mouse/trackpad is not the same as tweaking real knobs, | but it's much cheaper. | | [1] https://vcvrack.com/ | chillingeffect wrote: | at least a few of them have been ported to Axoloti as well [1] | | [1] http://axoloti.com | filoeleven wrote: | > Obviously, using a mouse/trackpad is not the same as tweaking | real knobs, but it's much cheaper. | | I'm interested to see what the availability of cheap VR does | here. With today's room scale VR, using knobs and sliders in a | 3D space is feasible. Being able to develop spatial memory, | even without tactile feedback, makes for a compelling | alternative to using a mouse and screen. Once VR/AR gets | tactile feedback like this glove[0], it gets even closer to | parity with hardware. | | If the module controls in VCV Rack are standard components | (button, knob, slider, etc.) then it should be pretty simple to | translate them into 3D controls. Though I guess buttons may not | work as well as switches, I haven't encountered them in VR yet. | Anyway, with those component mappings in place, any VCV module | should be displayable in a virtual rack with no extra effort-- | it's just a procedural UI change, generated from the existing | 2D layout, that doesn't impact the audio engine at all. | | [0] https://youtu.be/OK2y4Z5IkZ0 | pmoriarty wrote: | I'm not as excited to see traditional interfaces cloned in VR | space because the lack of tactile feedback in VR really | hampers such interfaces (it's really annoying to have to look | down at your hands and the knobs you're turning or the | switches you're pushing to make sure you've got the right | one, etc). | | What's much more interesting to me are exploration of | innovative interfaces. For example, with full-body tracking | you could map body parts to different synth parameters or | algorithm parameters and then allow the user to make music by | dancing. | | The sky is really the limit in terms of what body/head/arm | tracking and VR can allow you to do with innovative interface | design. | Nition wrote: | One of the better examples of that I've seen was actually | back in 2012, done with a couple of Kinects[1]. Although | it's still not much more than the equivalent of pressing a | few buttons and sliders and it's obviously highly pre- | programmed. | | There's the Hot Hand[2]; the bassist is using one in [3]. | There's still a lot more that could be done. | | [1] "The V Motion Project" https://vimeo.com/45417241 | | [2] https://www.sourceaudio.net/hot-hand.html | | [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuunY8BTqNs | fit2rule wrote: | VCVRack is one of the all-time greatest pieces of synth | software, ever. The sheer number of modules you can install, | out of the box, for free, is astonishing. | | Its also pretty neat that a lot of hardware manufacturers use | VCVRack as both a prototyping system as well as a promotion | mechanism. I've introduce a lot of people to Eurorack by way of | VCVRack - usually they play with it for a few weeks, and before | I know it, they've got a new hardware rig set up in the living | room .. | | Pretty great time to be a synth nerd. (See also: Behringer.) | InitialLastName wrote: | The longer you ignore Behringer, the longer a thriving | community of module builders can exist. Cheap ripoff modules | sound great (no pun intended) but provide one more angle to | screw the little guy. | prsy wrote: | Classic drug dealer move, the first hit's free. I would have | probably passed on a Chronoblob2 before, but damnit now I | want one. | tekstar wrote: | They are also at the core of Spectrum Synthesizer bundle for | iOS, which is a free set of AUv3 instruments. | | https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/spectrum-synthesizer-bundle/id... | | (I am the creator of Spectrum) | mellavora wrote: | Been into modular for just over 2 years. If you want to emulate | it in software, the csound language is your friend. | | https://csound.com/ | | "Csound is a sound and music computing system which was | originally developed by Barry Vercoe in 1985 at MIT Media Lab." | | I prefer to do things in hardware rather than software because | after staring at a computer monitor all day long professionally, | it is the last thing I want to do when I get home. I much prefer | twisting knobs and patching cables. | | Also, one philosophical interest in Eurorack is as an alternative | model of computation. You've totally given up the Von Neumann | architecture, but you can still do some amazing computations. | Sums, integrals, differentials, chaotic functions, ... | | point is, this is another way physical Eurorack is an alternative | to "software" (where software seems to assume a Von Neumann | system to run it on...) | | Cost is an issue. It is hard to be serious about the hobby for | less than $1500. You are welcome to dispute that point with me by | discussing all the cheaper options available or talking about | resale value, but given that most modules cost north of $100 it | doesn't take long. | | And building modules from scratch (which I've done, just a stash | of chips, resistors, and caps and a blank proto board, working | off a hand-drawn circuit diagram) can save a few bucks but the | time cost gets very high. | billfruit wrote: | Csound looks good, but I find that predefined instruments are | hard to find, and not catalogued in a central place in the | internet. Also doing drum tracks seems not so easy, none of the | example csound music I have heard has drum tracks. | dimal wrote: | Interesting contrast with TipTop, who makes modules which are | derivatives of other devices (808 and 909 drum modules), but they | patented Stack Cables (even though stackable banana cables were | already a thing), and has sued to prevent other companies from | also making stackable cables. | deusofnull wrote: | TipTop is a bad actor / goes against the ethos of many others | in the eurorack space IMO. I have their mantis case, was my | first eurorack case, and while it's good I do dislike that i | use theirs. | | the modularity and interoperability (and the implied open | source culture) of eurorack philosophy should extend to the | companies that make these products. so often they dont. makes | me think of unix philosophy and how tech companies dont follow | that philosophy either. | jpm_sd wrote: | This is so cool! | | If, like me, you were wondering "what is this, exactly?" see: | | https://mutable-instruments.net/ | fit2rule wrote: | Emilie Gillet (founder of MI) has done so much for the modular | synthesiser world - she has pushed the state of the art pretty | far forward, and now making all the designs available pretty much | means that we are going to see some great progress beyond the | current scene .. I wonder if there is a F/OSS award that she | could be recommended for? Its one thing to release software for | free, but to also do it for hardware designs is amazing .. | tekstar wrote: | She released the designs years ago and her influence on the | scene has been growing for years. Having a well engineered | production example makes all the difference for people learning | how to make electronic music devices | jacquesm wrote: | You could recommend her but I would suggest not doing so | without her approval. | Tomte wrote: | Don't award committees usually contact potential awardees | before announcing the award publically or even before drawing | up a shortlist? | | I don't know, but it would seem to be wise. | cousin_it wrote: | Magical stuff. There are software versions available for free, | usable in VCV Rack which is also free. I've been playing with it | on and off for the last year. It blows my mind that 1) someone | would just give this stuff away 2) more people aren't jumping on | the bandwagon of physically based modular synths. These things | can make some of the most pleasant musical sounds I've ever | heard. Check out the YouTube channels "Lightbath" or "ann annie" | for examples. | | Sadly, Emilie Gillet (the person behind Mutable Instruments) | recently announced that she's stopping development of new | modules, because being a known person who's visibly trans is just | too much, and she's looking for the next niche to disappear in. | 6581 wrote: | > more people aren't jumping on the bandwagon of physically | based modular synths. | | It's expensive, takes a lot of space and does nothing that you | can't do in software. The UI/UX of hardware modules might be | better, but that's a trade-off I've personally grown to accept. | InitialLastName wrote: | > does nothing that you can't do in software | | I can't turn knobs on my computer, and the blinking LEDs are | underwhelming. | kennywinker wrote: | I love modular, so don't take this as an attack - but a $50 | midi controller has a lot of knobs you can turn :) | absorber wrote: | MIDI has the limitation of only having a maximum of 7 bit | resolution of continuous control of a parameter. | | Not only that, but it's not trivial to combine with DAWs | because of jitter. | rotexo wrote: | I've been fantasizing a little about a new modular | format, or at least a new category of synth controllers, | taking advantage of the higher resolution of MIDI 2.0 for | some modulation signals. I could be wrong, but I thought | MIDI 2.0 was supposed to potentially be faster/more | timing accurate too. | squarefoot wrote: | Agreed, although a midi controller by its generic nature | does have to adapt to very different hardware, so that | for example the knobs, switches etc. placement doesn't | reflect functionally the hardware it is connected to, | which sometimes would help immensely to ease the | operators work. I wish there was a controller made of | pluggable micro modules, that is, say 2x2 cm modules | receptacles that could host a potentiometer, a | pushbutton, a few leds, a sensor pad etc. where no matter | where the module is placed, it will link to the backplane | processor getting its identification number and function, | then the user can move them around to replicate the | functional arrangement of an instrument panel to make | programming much easier. It's more or less the same idea | I'd like to develop for computer keyboards, where | pluggable keys (pots, haptic transducers and sensors | etc.) could be moved around still keeping their | programmed function. With todays technology it wouldn't | be so hard to develop; very likely the most expensive | part would be the plugs/receptacles hardware rather than | their digital hardware or firmware. | karlding wrote: | This already exists in some form. | | There's a Waterloo start-up that spun out of a Fourth | Year Design Project, Palette [0]. Their main sell was | integrations into various creative tools (ex. Adobe | Creative Suite, Ableton). They recently rebranded as | Monogram [1][2] after announcing new hardware. | | [0] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cchu/palette-a- | freeform... | | [1] https://fstoppers.com/gear/palette-gear-announces- | new-hardwa... | | [2] https://monogramcc.com/ | squarefoot wrote: | Very interesting product, thanks for the links! | ovi256 wrote: | Yeah, but a MIDI controller has fixed button, knob and | display positions. | | We need a new form MIDI controller with movable button | and knob and LED placement. Then one could make a | physical MIDI controller for any MI software instrument | by placing the controls and the LEDs on a backplane in | the right place. | | If it's not already done, I bet it will be in the next 5 | to 10 years. | guggle wrote: | Thanks, but no thanks, because: | | - parameter and pot position mismatch - lack of layout - | lack of labels | | Basically a 50$ midi controller gives poor UX. | pmoriarty wrote: | MIDI controllers and a computer can definitely have their | own advantages and can nicely compliment stand-alone | hardware nicely. | | But stand-alone hardware has some advantage of its own | over a MIDI setup. | | Well designed stand-alone hardware modules can turn on | instantly, you don't have to keep their software up to | date, you don't have to do any performance tuning on them | or muck around with latency, they don't have to compete | with other software running on your computer as software | synths do, I can be pretty sure that barring hardware | failure they'll still work exactly the same way 5 or 10 | years down the line, etc. | | In sum, stand-alone hardware offers me a lot of | reliability, consistency, convenience, and performance | that's often hard to match with a computer and MIDI | controllers. | | Of course, a computer and MIDI controllers have their own | advantages and conveniences, like being able to save | settings, having a virtually unlimited amount of | functionality by using various software packages or | writing your own, allowing the user to change or choose | their preferred UI, etc. | | So they're really not the same. It's best to have both! | batmansmk wrote: | You interpreted physically based as physical. You can have a | software physically based modular synth. | | "Physically based" refers to the synthesis method, you model | the resonance mechanism. The EaganMatrix, Nord Modular, | Kronos... are all examples of this technique, and are also | available in 100% software. It is in contrast to subtractive, | additive or fm based synths. | brianobush wrote: | A lot of hobbies are expensive and take-up space, so that | argument doesn't hold up in reality. If you are into | hardware, you choose hardware. Software versions of Eurorack | just don't have the same feel. Even VCV seems clunky. My case | has around 140 knobs and switches that I can easily tweak, | just can't get the same feel in software regardless of how | well the UI has been optimized. My 2 cents. | [deleted] | blhack wrote: | It's because they're so expensive. Luckily though, behringer | recently announced a bunch of amazing modules for very cheap | (which is basically their MO, and why they are going to end up | eating most of the industry) | rch wrote: | For what it's worth, Behringer's penchant for cloning bespoke | hardware that is still available from the creators is | generating some negative sentiment* which is broadly | affecting their reputation. | | [*] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22253785 | vibrolax wrote: | Cloning exists across every segment of the music making | industry: guitars, amps, studio gear, mics, etc. Making a | sustainable living as a creator of boutique instruments or | equipment is a rare feat. | | My own take is that cheap clones allow people to enter a | hobby/passion at an affordable price. My experience is that | those who find the hobby worthy of continued investment | often progress to become buyers of boutique/artisan gear. | AndrewUnmuted wrote: | Behringer already has the reputation of selling very | inconsistent and unreliable hardware, some of which are | truly amazing values, but most are true heaps of garbage. | | This won't bode well for Behringer in the professional and | prosumer markets perhaps, but guitar center is going to eat | their euro rack modules up. They'll look great on the demo | shelf. They'll replace them regularly as they start | exhibiting problems on the demo floor. It'll work out just | fine for them. | jacquesm wrote: | That's not exclusive to Beheringer in the bargain | department. Even so-called quality brand has issues when | on display in the stores. Nord for instance has a super | good reputation but their products are in fact quite | fragile. I've seen more than one broken on display model. | And that stuff isn't cheap at all. Things I've seen: | virtual drawbars breaking on their organ model, keyboard | issues (dead notes, inconsistent volume, knobs missing / | broken off. Otoh; brands like Yamaha and Korg seem to | hold up quite well at in-store displays. | | Even so, most electronic music gear sold in quantity | isn't nearly the quality of stuff aimed at the touring | musician, and for the price it really couldn't be. | blhack wrote: | Imagine a world where the first inventor of a violin was | the only person ever allowed to create a violin. We would | not have the musical landscape we have right now. | | Behringer's proposition is basically: this stuff doesn't | need to be luxury goods. Not that luxury goods shouldn't | exist, and when you sell your platinum album, go ahead and | buy stuff with a moog or a korg logo. But that said, normal | people should have access to this stuff as well. | | In fact, to bring this back to a conversation more directly | relevant to HN: the market of people willing to pay $500 | for a synth is MUCH larger than the market of people | willing to pay $5000 for a synth, AND the people who are | willing to pay $500 for a synth could be converted into | people willing to pay $1000 for a synth. | | I think there is a really important lesson there about | pricing. One that I think that current, bespoke instrument | manufacturers are going to have to learn. | | Full disclosure: I own behringer synthesizers. My current | SaaS product is breaking conventional advise about pricing | in the same way that Behringer does (not yet launched). | TheOtherHobbes wrote: | Behringer are anti-Veblens, which annoys people who believe | that technology should be an expensive and exclusive wealth | signal. | | In reality cloning - if not outright theft of designs and | ideas - has been rife in the synthesizer industry since the | earliest days. | | Some Eurorack modules are more or less literal clones of | "famous" designs. The only difference is the graphics. So | cloning is not exclusively a Behringer issue. | | Generally, most of the big name synthesizer companies are | lagging far behind the Eurorack market for innovation. | Behringer are taking advantage of this by filling that | niche. | | Given that they also produce original products - like the | Wing and the X32 mixers - I expect they'll produce some | original synth designs when they've exhausted the clone | market. | | But synth players are not particularly adventurous, and | nostalgia sells, so the clone market is where most of the | money is for now. | metalgearsolid wrote: | Being anti-Veblen is not the reason I dislike Behringer. | It's not so black and white when it comes to cloning or | replicating original designs of the past. It can be done | tastefully. Behringer does not do their clones with | integrity. | squeaky-clean wrote: | > Some Eurorack modules are more or less literal clones | of "famous" designs. The only difference is the graphics. | So cloning is not exclusively a Behringer issue. | | Typically clones are made for vintage and hard to find | gear, which Behringer (and many others) have done for | years without issue. The specific recent problem with | Behringer and why it's angering many members of the synth | community is Behringer is actively cloning and | undercutting products being made right now. | | In the link above about the TD-3, the "DevilFish" mod is | a mod Robin Whittle does for the out-of-production Roland | TB-303. Behringer cloned the TB-303 to make their own | unit, the TD-3. Not many people are upset about this. | | They then contacted Robin Whittle, who created and sells | kits for the DevilFish mod, and after being unable to | come to an agreement with him, simply used his mod in | their synthesizer. This is legal because there are no | patents on the mod.... Kind of a dick move though. | | Purely speculation, but they feel like the kind of | company that would clone a Mutable Instruments module and | conveniently ignore the GPL portion of the license when | it suits them to. | | They also hype product announcements in a way that seems | like they're trying to poach customers. They didn't | announce their Model D clone until just after Moog put up | pre-orders for their re-issue. Then Behringer took over 2 | years from announcement to sale. They've done similar | things with Roland announcements. Releasing a "We're | working on something very similar!" image on Facebook the | same day as a sale announcement for a new product, and | then never releasing the Behringer item. | | And Lastly, Uli Behringer is a bad member of the | community. He constantly has posts deleted by GearSlutz | moderators for having false information. He attempted to | sue several members of Dave Smith Music for talking | negatively about him on forums outside of their day-jobs. | | > I expect they'll produce some original synth designs | when they've exhausted the clone market | | They already have some lovely original designs like the | Neutron or Deep Mind by the way. | squarefoot wrote: | Behringer made cheap knockoffs of famous products a while | ago, and most apparently sucked badly. I've heard more | recent accounts of newer products being of decent quality | however, and a couple teardowns seem to confirm this. They | still mostly clone stuff by others though. The problem to | me is also due to the very high price the original stuff is | sold at. Technology has progressed to a point an electronic | instrument or effect can be built at a fraction of what | would be the price 30 years ago, still mainstream producers | sell at absurd prices. As an example, I can build with 15 | euros in an evening a fantastic sounding germanium | transistor fuzz face clone with mosfet input stage and LDR | compressor, place it in a box and make a small profit by | selling it at EUR40. If adding a fancy box and famous name | will raise its price tag to EUR150 or more, notwithstanding | the differences between costs of non mass parts purchases | and production, I'd say the famous producer is asking for | its products to be cloned. | recursinging wrote: | Eurorack modules are so expensive because they are mostly | niche products made by one man shows (like Emilie Gillet). | The exotic takes on synthesis and user interfaces are exactly | what makes them worth every penny to me. Behringer is using | their vertical integration to bring classic and well known | synthesis concepts (and UIs) down to attractive price points. | I don't think they are in conflict with most of the Eurorack | folks (except perhaps Doepfer). I'd be surprised if they | start cloning Make Noise modules. | blhack wrote: | I think that Behringer's entry into the modular space | actually HELPS these bespoke manufacturers and is going to | help them sell more modules (if behringer doesn't just | outright buy them, like they've already done with outfits | like TC electronic). | | I'm not going to drop $5k on a starter modular setup. But I | will drop $500 on one! And then $250 on Maths; something I | would have never even thought about buying if I didn't have | the rest of the modular to support it. | elihu wrote: | I can agree with that. I think the manufacturers who | would be threatened by Behringer are the ones who are | making oscillators, filters, voltage controlled | amplifiers, envelope generators, and other basic modules | that you kind of have to have just to have a usable | setup. Whereas anything that's a substantial departure | from what you'd find in any mainstream subtractive synth | may actually become more popular, because the hobby is | more accessible. | pmoriarty wrote: | Another more affordable option is to build your own modules. | | What's involved could be as simple as merely assembling a | purchased kit (which should already save you money over a | pre-assembled module) all the way to designing, prototyping, | and etching your own PCB's, designing and building the | enclosure, finding and ordering all the parts, soldering them | all together, testing, etc. | | The DIY modular synth community is pretty active. | | The "Music Tech DIY" forum on Muffwiggler is a good place to | start. | | https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=17 | _def wrote: | It's not a simple "giveaway". It's a contribution to society | spritecranberry wrote: | His name is Olivier. | mitjak wrote: | tech is such a double-edged sword for trans folks. i feel like | it both affords opportunity to be recognized for skills but | also carries a very heavy potential cost of rejection and | ignorance from peers. | tomphoolery wrote: | That kinda makes sense as to why she's open-sourced all the | software. | joemi wrote: | Mutable Instruments stuff has been open source long before | her coming out as trans. I think they might actually have | been open source from the beginning, or thereabouts? (The | company originally started by selling DIY kits, IIRC.) | Usually (at least with recent modules) she waits to release | it openly until after the first production batch of modules | has sold. | ryan-allen wrote: | Came here to plug VCV rack! | | That is so sad about Emilie, she's a genius and has produced | some wonderful stuff. Her physical modules on the second hand | market are hard to come by and command a high price, they are | so renowned. | H1Supreme wrote: | > more people aren't jumping on the bandwagon of physically | based modular synths. | | I've been building a (eurorack) modular modular for a little | over 10 years now. It's seriously blown up in subsequent years. | After not buying anything for 5 years or so, I just recently | started my second case. The amount of modules available has | probably doubled since then. | | I suspect some of the barrier to entry is the price. Especially | when you have a lot of options in the $500 and under monosynth | category. But, once you eclipse that initial hurdle, the sky's | the limit. | trollied wrote: | The PCBs are open source too. | | I purchased 6 from https://www.amazingsynth.com and couldn't be | happier. It's good fun trying to do surface mount soldering! | vile_wretch wrote: | I've been building MI modules for a while. Emilie is such a boon | to the SDIY community. Not only does she design incredible | modules and release the entire design for free but she also | actively encourages modification and improvements buy offering a | complete development VM. | | It was pretty much expected whenever a new module was released | that people would get right to work designing 'u' versions of the | modules that use less space on a rack or in some cases "double" | versions of modules. | monkeynotes wrote: | The Plaits oscillator has been ported to the Korg Logue SDK too: | https://github.com/peterall/eurorack-prologue | brianobush wrote: | and is available in the Arturia Microfreak. | | https://www.arturia.com/products/hardware-synths/microfreak/... | recursinging wrote: | If I might just gush here. The work made available here by Emilie | has been just so damn valuable to me over the last few years. | From simple but effective circuit design, to very efficient and | easy to follow DSP code. I would never have fallen so deep into | the eurorack rabbit hole without it. Whatever it is she ends up | doing now, I hope she shares it with the world the same way she | did with MI! | sigy wrote: | I hope so too. Emilie's work has been my primary inspiration in | learning more about digital signal processing. The Mutable | Instruments body of work is a tremendous gift. Thank you so | much, Emilie! | squeaky-clean wrote: | Using a Mutable Instrument module is a fun way to code your own | Eurorack ideas if you're like me and bad at the hardware/DIY | part. Everything is open, even the bootloader, and there's a neat | process where it converts the compiled program into an audio | stream that the module then listens to (when turned on in | recovery mode). And it's even easier to go back to stock | firmware. | | There's also the well-known-ish alternative "Parasite" firmwares | by mqtthiqs which is fun to look through and really fun to play | with in a module. [0, 1] I don't know if these are available in a | software-only form like VCV. | | Mutable also isn't the only manufacturer releasing open-source | modules. 4ms has a few, the DLD [2] is a delay I've been playing | with reprogramming lately (almost 3 minutes of memory! stereo!). | Rebel Technology releases their stuff under GPL [3]. I'm sure | there's more I'm forgetting. I wish Make Noise would open-source | their digital stuff... | | [0] https://github.com/mqtthiqs/parasites | | [1] https://mqtthiqs.github.io/parasites/clouds.html | | [2] https://github.com/4ms/DLD | | [3] https://github.com/pingdynasty/CLK | jdkee wrote: | I built a Mutable 6-voice Ambika synthesizer about five years ago | with the SMR voice cards. It is a magical synth and an easy | build. You can get DIY kits from TubeOhm. | | https://www.tubeohm.com/tubika.html ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2020-02-25 23:00 UTC)