[HN Gopher] Japan's PM to ask all schools to temporarily close
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Japan's PM to ask all schools to temporarily close
Author : jdshaffer
Score : 325 points
Date : 2020-02-27 10:51 UTC (12 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www3.nhk.or.jp)
(TXT) w3m dump (www3.nhk.or.jp)
| bouncycastle wrote:
| I think what Japan really needs to do is to run a campaign to
| change the culture. One of the problems is that they put too much
| confidence in face masks. What they need to do is run a message
| that if you show any symptoms then stay home and avoid contact
| altogether.
|
| Most of these masks are just toys and not air tight at all. One
| experiment you can do with the mask is go outside in cold
| weather, so that you can see the steam when you breathe. You will
| notice that when you breathe, most of air is actually escaping
| through the edges of the mask and around the nose.
|
| Also, there is a culture of not staying home when you're sick.
| It's normal to continue going to work with a cold / other
| infection, or school or shop. Sick leave is frowned upon. Just
| put on a mask and you're all sweet, right? That has to change.
| Razengan wrote:
| Masks are also worn for privacy and social anxiety. They can be
| fashionable [0].
|
| And, it's sad to even have to mention this, but as an added
| bonus for the dystopia we seem to be headed into, they also
| hinder mass surveillance. Apparently there are/were attempts to
| ban masks during the unrest in Hong Kong.
|
| I recall this video [1] where people say they like how masks
| keep their faces warm, and they can feel free to sing to a song
| in public without feeling embarrassed. :)
|
| [0] https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=face+mask+fashion
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW67Hd7RJgQ
| munificent wrote:
| _> most of air is actually escaping through the edges of the
| mask and around the nose._
|
| Why is that a problem? My expectation is that what matters is:
|
| 1. Air that you _inhale_ comes through the mask filter. It 's
| not necesarily the case that inhaling and exhaling have
| symmetric effects. When you exhale, you increase air pressure
| inside the mask, which pushes it away from your face and opens
| the seals around the edge. When you inhale, I expect it would
| seal tighter. You can exhale while wearing a swimming mask and
| bubbles go everywhere. That doesn't mean the mask isn't
| otherwise water tight.
|
| 2. Aerosol particles from infected people coughing and sneezing
| get caught by the mask and don't go into your airways.
|
| 3. You don't touch your face with your hands.
| hurricanetc wrote:
| #2 is only true if you get a proper mask and wear it
| properly. N95 or better. #3 is always true but it is of
| limited (near zero) value if you aren't also using other
| methods, namely washing hands.
|
| #1 is not true at all unless you get a proper mask, with a
| filter, and use it properly. Most people are walking around
| with a mask they got off the shelf at Walmart that is acting
| about as effectively as a halloween costume.
|
| N95+ masks are expensive. Currently $20 per mask on Amazon.
| neaden wrote:
| You should be fit-tested with an N95 as well. I had a job
| where it was required yearly and different brands and sizes
| work better for different people.
| dboreham wrote:
| The cheapest N95 masks are around $3 retail ($6 for a pack
| of 2).
| ceejayoz wrote:
| > N95+ masks are expensive. Currently $20 per mask on
| Amazon.
|
| They're not _that_ expensive. That 's price gouging, and
| I'd be worried about them being counterfeit. I have no way
| of evaluating their effectiveness at home.
| iudqnolq wrote:
| I bought a box of 3 for $20 yesterday from an eBay seller
| with a good reputation. There's a chance I've been
| scammed, but I think lower than on Amazon.
| Wistar wrote:
| I bought a box of 10 3M N95 valved masks three days ago
| at Ace Hardware for $24.95.
| bouncycastle wrote:
| Is that a problem? Yes... like I said and shown in my
| experiment that you can repeat yourself, most masks are like
| toys, not air sealed or fitted properly and a lot of air gets
| through the sides, doesn't matter if you breathe in or out,
| gaps are still there (you will notice cold air entering on
| the side of the mask when you breathe in, especially if you
| worn the mask for a while and it gets a little soggy).
|
| Of course, don't get me wrong.. they do work to a degree if
| fitted properly with the right grade of filtet, but the
| problem that people are putting too much faith in these
| things, especially the ones you buy from the combinis..
| momentmaker wrote:
| Most masks won't filter the virus. N95 can only filter
| particles greater than 0.3 microns and the corona virus is
| around 0.16 microns.
|
| The masks are more for stopping behavioral habits for non-
| infected people like touching your mouth and nose but then
| you could touch your eyes too...
|
| The masks are more for the infected people who could sneeze
| and spread the virus particles much further than if blocked
| by the mask.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| > N95 can only filter particles greater than 0.3 microns
| and the corona virus is around 0.16 microns.
|
| The virus spreads in much larger drops of fluid.
| learc83 wrote:
| >corona virus is around 0.16 microns
|
| But virus particles aren't floating around in the air
| infecting people, it's spread mostly through respiratory
| droplets. Not saying that a surgical mask will protect you,
| but it's not because the virus is too small.
| serpix wrote:
| virus particles really are in the air infecting people.
| literallycancer wrote:
| I'm pretty sure N95 just tells you how many particles are
| filtered, and the sizes and for which size ranges it is
| more or less effective depend on the specific piece. Also,
| droplets are bigger than the naked virus particles and will
| get caught by the filter.
| TrueGeek wrote:
| The masks aren't fine enough to trap germ particles coming
| in. There are such masks (n95) but these are more expensive,
| and require fitting and training to use. The off the shelf
| masks people are using do nothing for healthy people.
| Kiro wrote:
| > training to use
|
| I keep hearing this but don't understand. What exactly
| needs training?
| huonpine wrote:
| Common sense
| primordiaal wrote:
| "Well, Technically", 3-ply masks _are_ fine enough to trap
| germ particles. They consist of a woven:non-woven:woven
| layer, the non-woven layer blocking nanometer particles. If
| you look at a n95 mask, it has the same woven:non-
| woven:woven layer structure.
|
| The problem of 3-ply masks is that 10-25% of the air you
| inhale leak from the side/nose, bypassing the filter. n95
| mask "fixes" the problem by tight(er) fitting, not by
| additional filtering layers.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonwoven_fabric
| jesuschroist wrote:
| And provide soap at sinks in public bathrooms.
| xioxox wrote:
| And what about those hand dryers? Do they just blow droplets
| containing the virus around the place?
| copperx wrote:
| Air driers have shown to be terrible for hygiene. But
| they're convenient and save paper.
| Area12 wrote:
| Convenient for me? No, I either stand there forever or
| leave with semi-wet hands. Paper towels work much faster
| and more effective, but the decision is made by
| facilities.
| mindslight wrote:
| Air dryers also leave you with nothing to open the door
| with.
| Ghjklov wrote:
| That drives me nuts... Need to always carry some paper
| towels on hand for times like that.
| jbay808 wrote:
| I keep wondering why bathroom doors aren't designed to
| swing outwards by default. Then you could open them
| without touching a handle.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| I always assumed it was firecode
|
| (i.e. a fire in the bathroom creates a vacuum which
| prevents the door from opening outward. maybe that's
| idiotic)
| literallycancer wrote:
| I think doors on the emergency exit route always open
| outwards so that they can open in a stampede. You'd
| usually have push bars on them instead of a regular
| handle too.
| ghaff wrote:
| I only know what the Internet says so this may or may not
| be correct.
|
| 1. Inward opening is probably less inclined to disperse
| bathroom air into the hallway outside.
|
| 2. You're probably less likely to smack someone with a
| door opening into a hallway. (Or course, someone entering
| might do it to someone exiting a bathroom but most people
| are probably at least somewhat trained to exercise
| caution under those circumstances.)
|
| 3. If anything, I'd think fire code would favor door
| opening out given that's the general rule.
| anchpop wrote:
| Your hands dry much quicker under a hand dryer if you rub
| them together. I see so many people who just leave their
| hands flaccid and it takes a lot longer
| mminer237 wrote:
| Eh, all the studies I've seen that show some dramatic
| difference have been funded by paper towel producers and
| used poor methodology. I believe research by the Mayo
| Clinic has shown that air dryers and paper towels are
| roughly equivalent for hygienic purposes.
| FreeHugs wrote:
| Is using the tap and soap of a public bathroom really
| reducing the chances of virus/bacteria infection? Or is it
| increasing them because the soap and tap carry viruses and
| bacteria themselfes?
| wonnage wrote:
| HN, where techies attempt to make logical arguments for why
| they don't wash after they shit
| viraptor wrote:
| Why not HN, where techies try to understand processes
| which may seem counterintuitive once you actually start
| thinking about them?
| hadtodoit wrote:
| Not sure if you've been to Japan but they have some of the
| cleanest public facilities I've seen in spite of all the
| traffic. I'm sure people are coming through multiple times
| a day to wipe down all fomites.
| robocat wrote:
| Fomite - Wikipedia: A fomes or fomite is any inanimate
| object that, when contaminated with or exposed to
| infectious agents can transfer disease to a new host.
| E.g. tap, couch, bench, hat.
|
| New word to me and I have a pretty good vocab, so
| FreeHugs wrote:
| Maybe. But does that answer my question?
|
| If you touch the soap and the tap, that will surely
| transfer germs to your hands that the person before you
| left there?
| hadtodoit wrote:
| I believe I did answer your question. Washing your hands
| will always be better than not. Many modern buildings
| also have automated water/soap/towel dispensers. And you
| can always use the towel to open the door.
| javagram wrote:
| Touching the soap doesn't matter at all. You're about to
| wash it all off your hands.
|
| Soap and water definitely work to reduce infections, even
| when using a shared sink. Look up what happened in the
| 19th century when people finally figured this out and
| started hand washing regularly, infectious disease
| transmission in settings like hospitals dropped
| dramatically.
| literallycancer wrote:
| They started from not washing hands between autopsies and
| surgeries though. Talk about low hanging fruit.
| copperx wrote:
| In the 19th century infections were cut drastically when
| hands were washed with water only. Imagine what soap can
| do.
| omegaworks wrote:
| Germs probably survive better on your skin than on the
| cold metal tap in the bathroom. Food safe handwashing
| says use a paper towel to turn off the tap after you are
| done drying your hands with it.
| beenBoutIT wrote:
| Not unless you go out of your way to avoid touching
| everything. The act of washing with soap and water removes
| your personal fecal bacteria and turning off the water
| replaces it with whatever filth is on the knobs. Ditto if
| you touch the door knob/handle on the way out.
| javagram wrote:
| Use a paper towel on the door knob to avoid infection.
|
| Most public bathrooms have automatic taps now that I see.
| myhf wrote:
| Most public bathrooms also have automatic doors (if you
| wait long enough)
| sleavey wrote:
| Aren't the main benefits of the mask the fact that you don't
| touch your face as much with potentially infected hands, and
| any sudden coughs or sneezes from the wearer are contained in
| the mask for others' benefit?
| neaden wrote:
| It's the opposite, when you are wearing one of those masks
| you touch your face more often. It also is a warm damp
| environment for bacteria. Now if you are sick and you are
| travelling to the doctors or something, then yes, a mask is a
| good idea. If you are healthy and trying not to be sick a
| mask is a bad idea, gloves and frequent handwashing with soap
| and water is a much better plan.
| mekster wrote:
| Why would you touch your face more often? At least you
| won't have a direct contact with your hands. Besides, why
| do you think putting on a mask and washing hands are
| somehow mutually exclusive?
| Razengan wrote:
| > _It 's the opposite, when you are wearing one of those
| masks you touch your face more often._
|
| What?? How do you figure that?
| neaden wrote:
| People adjust the masks often. They aren't very
| comfortable and it's unpleasant to wear them for long,
| they can feel itchy which promotes face touching. The
| seal around your mouth probably won't be great unless
| you've been fit-tested as well so you'll be tempted to
| touch there.
| mekster wrote:
| Where are you getting your stories from? I don't see
| people keep touching to adjust. People in Japan are used
| to wearing them for the pollen seasons.
| Razengan wrote:
| All of those sound like issues that would be fixed by
| using better masks, that fit snugly and feel comfortable,
| and can be washed or even medicated, instead of the very
| cheap disposables.
| TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
| If the masks don't seal during regular breathing, how are
| they going to contain a cough or a sneeze?
| Baeocystin wrote:
| They catch the water droplets.
| cududa wrote:
| ...they'll still blast out through the openings. That's
| like saying putting a toilet seat down prevents fecal
| matter from coating your bathroom (it doesn't)
| sleavey wrote:
| If it's a fabric variety facemask, I bet it absorbs a lot
| of the droplets. Not perfect, probably better than a
| smooth plastic facemask.
| Baeocystin wrote:
| Quantity matters. Both the size of the aerosol cloud
| generated from a cough/sneeze and the number and size of
| the droplets produced is reduced while wearing a mask.
|
| Stopped completely? No. Reduced enough to be a useful
| measure in some circumstances? Yes.
|
| If I were going out and genuinely worried about inhaling
| something, I'd skip surgical masks and N95 disposables
| and just wear a sealed half mask using P100 filters.
| They're _way_ more comfortable than either of the
| disposables, and provide much better filtration. Since
| they use exhaust valves, they may not provide much
| protection to others from your own potential pathogens,
| although I would expect some droplet suppression simply
| from the redirection of any exhalation through a small
| valve.
| agilebyte wrote:
| If the mask doesn't fit properly, you are MORE likely to
| touch your face to adjust it.
| istorical wrote:
| This is just false. Humans touch their mouths and noses all
| of the time. The mask makes you less likely to touch your
| lips or nostrils.
| tus88 wrote:
| Unfortunately it takes 2 weeks to show symptoms.
| raphaelj wrote:
| But luckily most of the contamination happens through cough,
| so that these people that don't show symptoms are also less
| contagious.
| beenBoutIT wrote:
| The Mybusters really do a great job of explaining
| contamination visually in this segment.
| https://youtu.be/k1j8bh8_O_Q
|
| You don't want to be in the same building as a sick person,
| let alone anywhere near them in a smaller space like an
| office or restroom.
| paulmd wrote:
| And some case studies of disease clusters have strongly
| suggested asymptomatic transmission. Asymptomatic individuals
| who spread it to a bunch of family members despite having no
| symptoms, then tested positive for the disease themselves
| once identified.
|
| There's no containing it at this point, the best you could do
| is slow it down until there's a vaccine.
| fspeech wrote:
| Unfortunately Wuhan experience showed that home isolation
| doesn't work. Caretakers will get infected. People also have
| needs that will make them or their caretakers go outside.
| watwut wrote:
| Then again, most people elsewhere dont wear masks at all and
| dont stay at home when they are sick. While there is definitely
| less stigma for staying home, people still dont want to do it
| and act offended when you complain about them being sick in
| work.
| pwthornton wrote:
| Yes, only certain masks will even do anything. But...
|
| Even then you need to make sure the mask fits. In hospitals,
| they do tests to find the right fit for nurses and doctors to
| check airflow.
|
| They can be a good tool in certain situations, but random
| people placing a bunch of faith in them over other solutions is
| probably not helping.
| Raphmedia wrote:
| Masks in Japan are based on the desire of Japaneses not to
| infect others and not to spread their own germs. They won't
| filter the air coming in or out, but they'll catch a sneeze and
| a cough. They also make it so you don't put your fingers in
| your mouth or nose. It's the sick that wear them. You barely
| see them elsewhere because the idea of "wear something
| uncomfortable for the sake of others" is a hard sell in the
| west.
| stevedewald wrote:
| Visited Tokyo last week. At least 95% of the people were
| wearing masks. Probably closer to 99%.
| 0xxon wrote:
| Was in Tokyo last week and this week.
|
| Depending on the day my guess was that 40-70% of people
| were wearing masks - more on public transit.
|
| I assume that you mostly were at the Airport or public
| transit/other huge venues - otherwise I cannot really
| explain our different experiences.
| mekster wrote:
| Way over exaggerating.
| JMTQp8lwXL wrote:
| Makes sense. That highlights the difference between
| individualistic and collectivist cultures. But if the
| measurable, scientific benefit of wearing a poorly-fitted
| mask is minimal at best, masks are pandemic security theater
| anyways. And I'm unsure if collectivist cultures consider
| that. Why bother doing something for the group, if the thing
| has no actual benefit other than appeasement.
| Raphmedia wrote:
| A minimal increase across an entire population becomes
| relevant.
| fiblye wrote:
| Yet I see people grab their mask and pull it down to let a
| huge sneeze or cough out into the open, unprotected, all the
| time. I've even had convenience store workers pull down their
| mask to cough into their hands right before handing me
| something. Not to mention guys (not sure about women) pretty
| much never wash their hands with soap and water after using
| the toilet. Most train station bathrooms, excluding the
| Shinkansen stations, don't even have soap--and I've been to
| plenty of doctor's offices and restaurants that have no soap
| in or near their bathrooms.
|
| Basic understand of disease spread and hygiene is lacking
| here. Changing into slippers when entering a building and
| wearing decorative masks are all about appearances, and
| that's what's most important in Japan. It's even more evident
| with that sham of a quarantine on the cruise ship before
| letting infected people off.
| meowface wrote:
| Is there some rationale for the lack of washing with soap?
| And is this just after men use the urinals, or also after
| they use the stalls?
| sneak wrote:
| I don't think what you're describing is specific to Japan.
|
| I regularly see all of the unhygienic behaviors you have
| described in public in Europe and in the US as well.
| fiblye wrote:
| Other countries have problems, but they're not praised
| for their perceived cleanliness. I've also never had
| trouble finding soap in any other bathrooms, and no soap
| in the bathrooms of some medical clinics indicates a much
| deeper problem.
| filoleg wrote:
| Idk about Europe, but in my 10+ years in the US, I
| haven't seen a single bathroom (whether public or in
| someone's home) that didn't have soap. And that's across
| both coasts and a bunch of different states.
| mekster wrote:
| You're forgetting that it's a season for the pollens and so
| many people have allergies against that, many people start
| wearing masks at this season. But the Corona has pretty much
| wiped masks off the shelves and those who need are having a
| hard time getting one.
| paulmd wrote:
| And of course, much like the drug supply chains, I'm going
| to assume that masks are largely manufactured in (wait for
| it) China and factory lines are probably shut down.
| cpeterso wrote:
| If you are sick enough to wear a mask in public, you should
| probably just stay home.
| jolmg wrote:
| > sick enough to wear a mask in public
|
| As I understand it, the bar is really low on that. If
| you're coughing or sneezing, you should wear a mask. It
| doesn't matter if you otherwise feel fine. I don't think
| it's necessary to stay at home simply because you're
| sneezing, and I doubt it's a valid excuse to skip work or
| school.
| Raphmedia wrote:
| "According to the U.S. Department of Labor, the average
| number of paid sick days often corresponds directly with
| years of service. Here are the averages for workers in
| private industry: Workers receive 7 sick days per year with
| 1 to 5 years of service. Workers receive 8 sick days per
| year with 5 to 10 years of service."
|
| +
|
| "For colds, most individuals become contagious about a day
| before cold symptoms develop and remain contagious for
| about five to seven days." / "If you have the flu, you'll
| be contagious one day before developing symptoms and up to
| five to seven days after becoming ill."
|
| =
|
| One cold would take up all your sick days. By following
| your recommendation, someone falling sick more than once a
| year would have to quit their job.
| celticninja wrote:
| * applies to the US. And less developed nations.
| chmod775 wrote:
| The concept of "paid sick days" baffles me. It implies
| that when the doctor says you're too sick to work and
| hands you a certificate, you won't get paid by default or
| that it should even be legal to not pay you. No wonder
| Americans are so reluctant to see the doctor, if both the
| doctor is expensive and also they won't get paid if
| they're sick.
|
| In most EU countries you are _not allowed_ to work and
| your employer will get into trouble if he lets you work
| when you 've got a sick cert. Your employer obviously
| also has to pay you and is not allowed to fire you for
| getting sick[1].
|
| If this outbreak causes the US to update its workers
| protections for the 21st century, at least something good
| will come out of it.
|
| [1]: in some countries you can receive a reduction in pay
| after being sick for X months in a row, usually to ~60%.
| vageli wrote:
| As someone who has worked in the service industry as a
| server, manager, and eventually part-owner, why should we
| burden the business owner with the responsibility to pay
| when someone is sick and unable to work? This is
| compounded by the fact that service industry often
| requires physical presence, which translates to the
| business having to pay both the sick worker and the
| worker's temporary replacement.
|
| Doesn't this fall to the government to create some kind
| of aid? At the very least, the gov could offer a tax
| break for wages paid sick workers.
| SolaceQuantum wrote:
| The business as an organization has a responsibility to
| value the humanity of the laborers they employ, which
| includes understanding that the greater benefit of paying
| wages is that now everyone has more money to spend on the
| business (assuming the business is actually good).
| Similarly, the business should be investing in making
| sure people are not coming into work sick, _especially_
| in the service industry! Spreading sickness to ones
| customers is a horrific idea. And lastly but not leastly,
| being able to treat people as humans actually saves the
| business money in turnover /training costs!
| lrem wrote:
| That's what insurance is for.
| inetknght wrote:
| > _why should we burden the business owner with the
| responsibility to pay when someone is sick and unable to
| work?_
|
| Is it really such burden to the business owner to see to
| the well-being of their employees?
|
| > _At the very least, the gov could offer a tax break for
| wages paid sick workers._
|
| I like this idea, tbqh.
| sokoloff wrote:
| Wages paid are deductible business expenses already.
| inetknght wrote:
| > _Wages paid are deductible business expenses already._
|
| Up to how much? I can't imagine wages paid are 100%
| deductible. Otherwise nothing's stopping people from
| starting businesses and paying wages to friends to reduce
| tax burdens...
| dboreham wrote:
| Not trying to argue the other side, but there are people
| who claim to be sick when they just want to be paid to
| not work. So an ideal system should also deal with that
| possibility.
| celticninja wrote:
| There is nothing unique about American businesses that
| means they cannot pay sick pay. In the UK there is
| mandatory minimum amount that must be paid an employee is
| off sick for more than 4 days. So how many low paying
| jobs the statutory minimum is what they will get but many
| employers will offer your full-time wages for a certain
| amount for example the first 15 days or 10 days of sick
| per year. However if you are long term sick then you will
| eventually end up on statutory sick pay. But even that is
| better than nothing. And you should remember the many
| American companies that operate in the UK also offer this
| to their employees. Of course perhaps that is offset
| somewhat by not having them pay healthcare insurance for
| their employees (although there is National Insurance to
| pay for the NHS)
| penagwin wrote:
| The service industry such as fast food has virtually no
| "paid sick days", and conveniently are jobs with lots of
| people interaction, poor pay, and poor if any health
| insurance.
|
| So you "might" have the cold or coronavirus - do you go
| to the ER (costs hundreds even with insurance) and lose
| out on your pay? (Not to mention you'll likely have your
| hours cut as "punishment"). Or do you tough it out and
| keep making money that you need to pay for your rent?
| downerending wrote:
| Once worked for a Wall Street firm that had a "no sick
| days" policy. I came in every single day, sick as a dog
| or not, and as far as I can recall, everyone else did,
| too.
|
| It's not just the poor--some of this really just is our
| (crazy) culture.
| mjevans wrote:
| If that's the case, make sure you make the coffee /
| drinks / etc for as many decision makers as possible so
| they get the gunk from the glass.
| owenmarshall wrote:
| It's really fun to think about how Covid-19 will do in a
| country where the average worker has too few sick days,
| and where the cultural norm is to "just bear it" and
| continue working/attending school/being in public even
| when sick.
| DelightOne wrote:
| Doesn't sound nice true.
|
| How do you transmit the flu to others without symptoms
| like sneezing/running nose?
| chmod775 wrote:
| There exists a metric ton of other _possible_ vectors for
| viruses to spread. It depends on the virus though.
|
| We don't yet conclusively know what vectors this virus
| can use to spread.
| TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
| > They won't filter the air coming in or out, but they'll
| catch a sneeze and a cough.
|
| How can both parts of this statement be true?
| true_religion wrote:
| Coughs and sneezes are mucous suspended in the air. The
| face masks don't stop "true" airborn infections, just ones
| where the infection vector is mucous.
| Raphmedia wrote:
| It'll catch most of the large droplets.
| flyGuyOnTheSly wrote:
| Most of the large droplets fall to the ground instantly
| without a mask anyways, though.
|
| It's the aerosolized smaller droplets that travel far and
| end up infecting others in your vicinity.
| nkrisc wrote:
| When you sneeze or cough any mucus or other fluids are
| projected forward and into the inside of the mask. When you
| exhale, the air pressure in the mask increases and air is
| forced out the sides.
|
| No, these masks are not bio-safety level 4, but they're
| probably better than nothing. At worst they prevent a
| portion of your sneeze and cough ejecta from landing on
| surfaces around you.
| endemic wrote:
| > Also, there is a culture of not staying home when you're sick
|
| That's been my experience in the US, but in Japan? While
| briefly living there, I was shocked when my 22 year old
| neighbor stayed home because of a common cold.
| jcriddle4 wrote:
| I suspect it is more company/occupation specific. High paying
| white collar workers are probably much more likely to be able
| to stay home. Low pay workers, likely have much less vacation
| benefits and all and must come to work. Me specifically I
| have over enough PTO with no prior vacation commitments that
| a week off it not a problem.
| durpleDrank wrote:
| Seriously though. That guy who comes into work sick to show us
| all he is 100% committed is completely bonkers. WORK REMOTELY if
| you need to flex how big your dedication is. Maybe throw a Calvin
| and Hobbes sticker on your car windshield while you're being so
| insecure and putting peoples health at risk.
| jdshaffer wrote:
| Actually the pressure is a bit on the reverse... if you call
| off sick for anything less that super-ill, it looks like you're
| not committed, and your boss and co-workers will not think that
| favorably of you.
|
| Even at the university I work at, as a teacher, there's a
| subtle pressure not to call in sick or miss meetings or take a
| day off. I can only imagine how much STRONGER that peer-
| pressure is in an office setting.
| pavon wrote:
| In Japan who would typically take care of children in a situation
| like this? In the US, because of the difficulty for parents to
| get off of work, I would expect most of the children to be in
| large group settings anyway (day care, staying with friends,
| large extended families, etc). It might limit spread a little bit
| compared to school, but not a lot.
| elicash wrote:
| This is surprising given this epidemic seems to mostly affect
| people over 30. Not saying it's wrong, I'm not a public health
| expert. Just surprised.
|
| Is it because they might be likely to carry and spread it without
| ever showing any symptoms?
| xt00 wrote:
| Also tons of kids in Japan walk, take the train or bike to
| school, so having kids stay home would actually cut down on a
| chunk of possible vectors that go back and forth to busy places
| like train stations and schools. If this keeps up in Japan, the
| Tokyo Olympics are definitely getting postponed..
| lostapathy wrote:
| More like canceled. There is just no reasonable way to
| reschedule an event like that.
| [deleted]
| b1ur wrote:
| transmission is bad, as they might carry it to more vulnerable
| people, but also it gives the virus more opportunities to
| mutate, which could hinder vaccine/treatment progress
| giarc wrote:
| There's a good discussion on today's episode of the Daily
| podcast (Feb 27). Basically the theory is that children often
| get the 4x regular coronavirus strains and this provides a bit
| of protection against the new coronavirus strain. Therefore
| they tend to get subacute cases of coronavirus but can still
| spread.
|
| Here's an unintended consequence of closing schools though. Who
| often takes care of children when schools are unexpectedly
| closed? Grandparents. So in a way, they could be making this
| worse.
| ilamont wrote:
| I believe in Japan most married women stop working when they
| have children (https://www.nippon.com/en/in-
| depth/a04601/japanese-women-fac...) but in other countries
| where both parents are working, closing schools would be very
| disruptive.
| giarc wrote:
| You are correct, my view is very North American centric.
| I've never been to Japan so I don't know about childcare
| and parenting.
| elihu wrote:
| > Basically the theory is that children often get the 4x
| regular coronavirus strains and this provides a bit of
| protection against the new coronavirus strain.
|
| If that is true, that would seem to imply that one could
| improve one's resistance of COVID-19 by deliberately
| infecting themself with one or more non-COVID-19
| coronaviruses. (Not that I suggest anyone try this.)
| davidw wrote:
| Kids staying at home with grandparents means far smaller
| groups of people though.
|
| When my daughter started preschool... boy did she ever bring
| home every type of disease known to science. We ended up
| pulling her out and just having her grandparents look after
| her, which worked out really well, because I kept getting
| sick and missing work myself.
| zweep wrote:
| But those preschools build immunity.
| sp332 wrote:
| Being "immune" just means your body can fight the
| infection effectively. It doesn't mean you don't get
| infected and can't spread the disease for a short amount
| of time.
| giarc wrote:
| >Kids staying at home with grandparents means far smaller
| groups of people though.
|
| No, it means smaller groups of kids, but not for those
| seniors. They still go about their day, visiting with
| friends etc.
| davidw wrote:
| They can choose to not do that. Kids can't just take care
| of themselves on their own, they need an adult to take
| care of them. And seniors are a lot better about washing
| their hands and other things than young kids in big
| groups are.
| TheFiend7 wrote:
| Children grouping together for school is a massive transmission
| vector no? I don't think this is necessarily about protecting
| specifically kids and rather reducing transmission.
| fredgrott wrote:
| think please! How old are parents of children?? Children can
| give the virus to their parents..
| darren0 wrote:
| 2 of the 15 new cases in Japan are children. Seems like a
| reasonable precaution as children have a lot more physical
| contact than adults (example, lice spreads in children more
| easily).
| AncientTree wrote:
| Mortality is overwhelmingly restricted to the elderly and
| particularly those with existing health problems:
|
| AGE DEATH RATE* 80+ years old 14.8%
|
| 70-79 years old 8.0%
|
| 60-69 years old 3.6%
|
| 50-59 years old 1.3%
|
| 40-49 years old 0.4%
|
| 30-39 years old 0.2%
|
| 20-29 years old 0.2%
|
| 10-19 years old 0.2%
|
| 0-9 years old no fatalities
|
| PRE-EXISTING CONDITION DEATH RATE*
|
| Cardiovascular disease 10.5%
|
| Diabetes 7.3%
|
| Chronic respiratory disease 6.3%
|
| Hypertension 6.0%
|
| Cancer 5.6%
|
| no pre-existing conditions 0.9%
|
| https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-se...
|
| If there is any 'plus' to this situation, its that Coronavirus
| will rapidly de-age many Western countries. This could lead to
| large economic benefits in the form of long-term savings on
| pensions and healthcare, as well as freeing up housing for
| families.
| OscarTheGrinch wrote:
| It's easy to hate on the elderly, until you become old
| yourself.
| eisa01 wrote:
| Would be interesting to see the normal yearly death rate of
| these age groups. Is Corona just advancing natural death
| rates for the old people (i.e. bringing forward by a few
| months), or do more old people die?
| cameronbrown wrote:
| > If there is any 'plus' to this situation, its that
| Coronavirus will rapidly de-age many Western countries.
|
| Jeez this is cold
| stevens32 wrote:
| Absolutely brutal comment
| darkteflon wrote:
| What an awful thing to say. You have any older people in your
| family? Think about them before you throw this kind of
| callous crap around.
| AncientTree wrote:
| "A Single Death is a Tragedy; a Million Deaths is a
| Statistic"
|
| In many Western societies, the elderly are going to receive
| more in lifetime services than they ever 'put in' in taxes.
|
| Additionally, the wealth of the oldest cohorts have been
| increasing, whilst the youngest cohorts have been
| decreasing.
|
| If a 2% deathrate across my country (overwhelmingly the
| elderly) means I can finally afford to buy a house (due to
| lower taxes, and increased housing supply/reduced demand),
| that's a situation I am willing to accept. It would be
| beneficial to society because I would be able to have
| children and improve the currently very low fertility rate.
|
| Additionally, the youngest generations now face a huge
| burden of solving climate change, something that older
| generations have been responsible for but politically
| refuse to address.
|
| When I look at Coronavirus, I see only opportunity for
| civilization and an improvement in the personal situations
| for many young people.
| xutopia wrote:
| What a horrible way to look at things.
| gdubs wrote:
| So, 1% of 50 year olds is somehow supposed to be comforting?
| In today's world, 50 is... not very old.
|
| Also, not everyone gets diabetes, to take just one example.
| But the common cold -- which this is similar to in many ways
| -- _lots_ of people get that.
|
| Finally, while panic is bad -- seriousness is good. And to
| me, I'm looking at the fact that so far most of the
| [critical] cases have happened in [China] where there are a
| lot more ventilator beds per hospital than in a place like
| the United States. So I think a healthy degree of caution and
| respect for this novel virus is more than warranted.
| spacechild1 wrote:
| This comment is the perfect candidate for
| https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitHNSays/
| RobRivera wrote:
| I think many people will view a financial struggle to ensure
| the square deal of old and retired as a plus to modern
| democracies, and the burden of providing for it a desirable
| burden.
| mekster wrote:
| > rapidly de-age many Western countries
|
| We're talking about 10 people dieing in a country now. How
| would this lead to that? Where's the math?
| ulfw wrote:
| So I guess you hope you'll never get old?
| myth_drannon wrote:
| I'm reading rumours that it was potentially engineered to act
| on that population, especially because the Chinese population
| is rapidly ageing. I wonder how does it compare to the SARS
| epidemic, I know that the regular flu is dangerous to old and
| children.
| darkteflon wrote:
| If you want to spread these kind of unsubstantiated claims
| around, go do it on 4chan or Reddit. It's not welcome here.
| SamBam wrote:
| You're _spreading_ rumors. If it 's not your intent to do
| so, consider deleting your post.
| C1sc0cat wrote:
| Or in the UK if your parents have not set up their wills
| properly, potentially land your kids with a large tax bill
| they have to pay now!
| m3kw9 wrote:
| Children can spread to adults that's why
| agumonkey wrote:
| are elders still living with children and grandchildren ? or
| is it a cliche .
| pingyong wrote:
| Over ~60 really, but schools are still amazing in terms of
| spread (to everyone), even if most of the kids would be fine
| after 2 weeks at home.
| anonsivalley652 wrote:
| 70-90. And the DJIA just dropped 500 pts.
| jacquesm wrote:
| Closed at down 1190.
| onetimemanytime wrote:
| Quarantines apparently are a way to stop spreading it. Now
| imagine a school with 800 kids, with parents and siblings from
| all kinds of backgrounds. One kids with the virus can spread to
| a lot of people who can then do the same...
| patio11 wrote:
| n.b. This is being described domestically as Yao Qing , which is
| "ask" in the sense of "The IRS asks that you not lie on your tax
| return."
| anonsivalley652 wrote:
| Does that really mean voluntary, strong suggestion or mostly
| mandatory?
| Iv wrote:
| Yes.
|
| (source: I live in Japan)
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| ...the GP didn't ask a yes or no question. :P
| GarrisonPrime wrote:
| "Is it" was the core of the question, which can be
| yes/no. ;-)
| ghaff wrote:
| I assume he's saying, in a tongue in cheek way, that it's
| ostensibly "voluntary" (but not really).
| anonsivalley652 wrote:
| Yes I did. ;-P
|
| (Face saved.)
| [deleted]
| anonsivalley652 wrote:
| Situation: :-/
|
| Answer: Hahaha. :-P
| Danieru wrote:
| Several years ago the Abe government "suggested"
| corporations issue dividends at about 30% of their profits.
|
| Now: nearly all corporations pay dividends at about 30% of
| profits as policy.
|
| Japan may not be reactive or proactive, but it does
| voluntary unity pretty well.
| tasogare wrote:
| Yes, this is one incredible things about the country.
| They might lag 10 years (or decades) on a social issue,
| but once a decision is taken, even radical, it will be
| applied in a couple of years.
| smukherjee19 wrote:
| I am not a native speaker, but it seems a "Yao Qing " from
| the government is basically something like a government
| order, even though it seems "polite". For example, I see
| usages of "Zheng Fu karanodetaYao Qing ", "request from the
| government to hand over data", which is well, as we know,
| people have to comply with. So I am guessing this wording is
| interpreted as an order, even though it means "request".
|
| IANAL, much less in Japan, so take it with a pinch of salt.
|
| EDIT: Seeing the other replies, I guess it can be interpreted
| both ways: people "listening to the advice of the
| government", or "government asking people listen to them".
| Again, IANAL.
| redbeard0x0a wrote:
| The AP article said it was a non-binding order, but they
| are expected to follow it.
| arbuge wrote:
| The US IRS can and will jail you if you do lie, so that might
| not be the best analogy.
| AndrewUnmuted wrote:
| They can jail you for a _mistake_ , let alone a lie.
| wbl wrote:
| No, they cannot jail you for a mistake if in fact you
| honestly think you did everything right.
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheek_v._United_States
| hcknwscommenter wrote:
| That's not quite right. The case you cite does support
| your position. But, the bar for jail time is a higher
| hurdle for the gov't to surmount than that. You merely
| have a good faith belief you did not violate the law.
| Therefore, if you are handling a gray area and you know
| the IRS could take a different position, you can still
| rest easy about jail time so long as you don't
| intentionally deceive/lie/etc. This is not legal advice
| wbl wrote:
| The IRS even has a way for you to tell them "I think the
| law says this".
| smacktoward wrote:
| That was the point, it's "ask" in the sense of "we're not
| really _asking._ "
| epanchin wrote:
| It's a good analogy. It explains the word "ask" in this case
| means "requires".
| nkrisc wrote:
| In terms of expressing the linguistic point being made, it
| seems like a fine analogy.
|
| The point is, apparently, that "ask" is a euphemism for
| something that you are effectively obligated to do.
|
| You're reading much too far into it.
| andyjpb wrote:
| As an English person I am finding this thread very
| confusing because I encounter very few situations where
| "ask" doesn't mean exactly what patio11 is describing.
|
| This is especially true when the dialogue is between two
| people (or entities) of different social status or power,
| but it's also pretty rude to not oblige when you are close
| to the person.
|
| The only time it is truly voluntary is when there is no
| relationship and nothing to lose by declining.
| Far_Heat0 wrote:
| Sounds more like he wasn't reading far enough into it
| kyuudou wrote:
| re: IRS, they _do_ call it "voluntary compliance" after all
| mszkoda wrote:
| Are all the schools in Japan controlled or funded in some way
| by the government? I'm guessing this is an "ask" to private
| school and the public schools have it as a direct order.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| In many parts of the world, the government still has
| regulatory power over private schools in many ways. I
| wouldn't be surprised if Japan can pretty much shut down all
| schools for health emergency reasons.
| buckminster wrote:
| In most parts of the world the government has authority
| over _everything_ once they declare an emergency.
| girlgeekinjapan wrote:
| Sorry to change the topic but I'm really struggling with a
| decision to fly from Tokyo (where I live) to the USA tomorrow for
| a wedding.
|
| One of my closest friends is getting married. She says to come!
| Wedding is Saturday. Day after I'd fly to another state to see
| mom. A few days after that I'd fly to another state to see
| brother and dad. After that was supposed to be GDC. May still go
| to SF or just stay with dad but current flight back is after GDC.
|
| I don't really want to miss my friends wedding and was really
| looking forward to seeing family as I only get to seem them once
| every other year or so and parents are healthy but ~80 so no so
| many chances left.
|
| So, what do I do? Go and cross my fingers I don't catch it? Pray
| that I'm not a carrier? No symptoms ATM. I currently work from
| home so haven't been commuting in typical Tokyo rush hour trains
| but have been out at non-rush hour 2 out of 3 days a week.
|
| Is it selfish to want to go? Is it selfish to not want to go? Is
| it irresponsible to go? Is it stupid to be worried?
| claudeganon wrote:
| IMO don't put your family at risk. We already know there's
| asymptomatic transmission of the disease and that it's much
| more injurious and deadly to people over 50. If you're young
| and healthy, yes, you'll probably be fine, but run the risk of
| exposing others in a more precarious state.
| senordevnyc wrote:
| In the absence of any clear data or guidance either way, I
| don't think either decision would be terrible or irresponsible
| of you. If it were me...I probably wouldn't go, but I really
| don't know. Your parents ages is a factor on both sides,
| honestly.
|
| Whatever you decide, I applaud you for at least asking the
| question and thinking about the risks to yourself and others,
| instead of so many who want to stick their head in the sand and
| insist that everything is fine.
| doctorOb wrote:
| I just cancelled my trip _to_ Tokyo this morning at the last
| minute because I was worried about unwittingly bringing the
| virus back to the states and getting friends and family
| (children and immune deficient) sick.
| mtm7 wrote:
| It seems like you're relatively low risk. Japan has several
| hundred cases in a population of 126 million.
|
| It's still good to be cautious though. The negatives: air
| travel could be disrupted while you're here, there's
| asymptomatic transmission, you need to pass through a busy
| airport in a country with unknown infection routes, and (most
| importantly) the virus is _much_ more dangerous for your
| parents. If I was in your shoes, I 'd probably cancel and plan
| a trip to see everyone in a few months.
| tinza123 wrote:
| I'm from a non-Hubei Chinese province.
|
| I won't go if I were you. Although the chances are small, but
| there are several cases in my home town, where people came back
| from Hubei province (where the outbreak initiated), without any
| symptoms, turned out to be carriers. One graduate student
| infected > 10 family members while maintaining normal body
| temporature, made local news right away.
| charliemil4 wrote:
| Based on your experience, are people fully recovering from
| Coronavirus? How long does that take usually?
| impendia wrote:
| For what it's worth, a Japanese work collaborator of mine had
| plans to visit me in the US next week. Just today he wrote me
| to cancel.
|
| He mentioned an additional concern: that air travel might be
| disrupted, and that he'd be unable to return home.
| nitwit005 wrote:
| Yes, having the return ticket canceled would be my real
| concern. Seems like an easy way to get into a hotel and
| travel visa mess.
| ghaff wrote:
| On the one hand, I'd worry less on a work trip. Whatever
| expenses are associated with having to hang out in a
| foreign country and dealing with visas isn't on me
| personally.
|
| On the other hand, do I really want to expose myself to
| unanticipated foreign quarantine for my job?
| heimatau wrote:
| If you're younger than 50. I'd go. Take basic precautions but
| don't worry.
|
| If you're older than 50, still go but take extra precautions.
| And take any symptoms very seriously.
| mjevans wrote:
| Take the precautions either way.
|
| Also consider wearing thin knit or cotton gloves to remind
| you to not touch things by default.
| cdiamand wrote:
| I'm going to say go for it. If this event holds enough
| significance for you that you will regret not going, then I say
| go. With the caveat that you maintain good hygiene, wear a mask
| and take any appropriate steps.
|
| I am interested in hearing the counter argument though.
| cloakandswagger wrote:
| All the proper hygiene in the world won't prevent you from
| being infected if there's an overnight explosion in cases
| while you're in contact with hundreds of people in airports,
| airplanes and social gatherings.
|
| Even if you did manage to avoid getting sick, there's a
| chance you could get stuck in quarantine in Japan, the US or
| both as countries become more aware of the virus' dormancy.
|
| Anecdotally, I have several friends who have cancelled non-
| refundable trips. If it were me, the desire to go on the trip
| wouldn't outweigh the stress of worrying about being
| infected, being held in quarantine, or traveling while a
| global panic sets in.
| owenmarshall wrote:
| > there's a chance you could get stuck in quarantine in
| Japan, the US or both as countries become more aware of the
| virus' dormancy.
|
| That's the key point for me. My personal risk calculus has
| me staying in my own country: while I think it's extremely
| unlikely that international travel to non-hot spots would
| lead to infection, I'm not chancing entry / exit / in place
| quarantines.
| cdiamand wrote:
| Thank you for this! I'm starting to lean towards a
| recommendation of not going.
| ghaff wrote:
| Personally I would probably go if I felt I was relatively low
| risk as you seem to be. But, then, I'm planning on taking off
| for a couple of weeks of conferences within the US on Monday.
| But it ultimately has to be an individual decision.
| psychlops wrote:
| They plan to close them until spring holidays late next month. We
| can expect much of the US to do the same if the virus comes in
| during the winter season.
|
| This is a big reason why the stock market is dropping.
| vorpalhex wrote:
| > This is a big reason why the stock market is dropping.
|
| That's.. a gross over simplification. The market sees a lot of
| perceived risk, whether that's school closures or factories
| shuttering temporarily, disruption in travel or other effects.
|
| The move towards investing more in gold bullion is both
| reactionary and indicates the market perceives a heightened
| risk of crash. Note that the market perceiving something
| doesn't make it true or inevitable, anymore than your aunt Jill
| perceiving she's allergic to bad chakras.
|
| > We can expect much of the US to do the same...
|
| Maybe. That depends heavily on how any given local body is
| willing to admit the problem exists, federal pressure on them
| one way or another, and general population beliefs. I'd expect
| California to close a few schools if they see more cases, but I
| wouldn't expect Alabama to.
| nestlequ1k wrote:
| More than 900 cases of infection have been confirmed. Damn,
| that's alarming.
| kingosticks wrote:
| But, as the rest of the sentence mentions, more than 700 of
| those were from the cruise ship.
|
| I think you really need to keep that in mind when considering
| the Japanese infection count.
| HarryHirsch wrote:
| Good luck with that in the US, where school is often used as an
| alternative to childcare.
| jp555 wrote:
| often? alternative?
|
| I expect that our School ALWAYS care for my child. :P
| freehunter wrote:
| Childcare meaning daycare or babysitter, as an alternative to
| parents watching the children. Parents often can't take time
| off work to watch their children.
| larrymyers wrote:
| In the US public schools also commonly only the only way a
| large portion of school aged children get breakfast and lunch.
|
| Without schools providing breakfast and lunch many kids will
| not get enough nutritional meals a day.
|
| When the Chicago public schools "closed" during the teacher
| strike, the non-union staff were still working to keeps the
| schools open just to provide meals and a safe place for kids to
| go during the day.
| bluGill wrote:
| I expect if schools get called off most business will tell
| their people to stay home. They will watch their kids while
| working.
|
| Of course the poorest will be least likely to be told to stay
| home (grocery stores will still need to be open - and probably
| need extra staff for sanitation)
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| I'd argue that US parents are so keen on schools staying open
| because often their jobs depend on it. I expect it would be
| similar in Japan as well.
|
| Maybe it seems like daycare because, in a sense, it does serve
| the function of allowing parents to work. That doesn't mean
| it's an alternative to daycare. The parents want their kids to
| have an education, but they also count on school to be able to
| work.
|
| Even here in Canada, if a school has a snow day and an employer
| doesn't, it can be a little tense if you don't have anywhere to
| put your kids. People with relaxed employers and good leave
| options are fine, but many people don't have that.
| magduf wrote:
| >I'd argue that US parents are so keen on schools staying
| open because often their jobs depend on it. I expect it would
| be similar in Japan as well.
|
| Why would it be similar in Japan? In Japan, children walk
| themselves to school (using public transit if necessary) as
| young as 6 years old. It's not like the US where parents can
| be thrown in jail for "child neglect" if their children don't
| have 24/7 adult supervision. I imagine that Japanese
| schoolkids can just stay at home if the schools are closed.
| vl wrote:
| This is so funny because, as any US parent knows, US schools
| love to close for any possible, however remote, reason.
|
| And today Seattle area high school is already closed due to
| suspicion of coronavirus:
|
| https://www.foxnews.com/health/washington-high-school-closed...
| SamBam wrote:
| What a strange way to phrase it. It sounds like you're
| suggesting the reason students go to school is because parents
| don't want to deal with childcare.
|
| How is school "used" in other countries, then?
| magic_beans wrote:
| It's not that parents don't want to handle childcare. It's
| that American work culture and lack of social support makes
| childcare impossible for parents who don't have a stay-at-
| home partner/employee to rear the children.
| frockington1 wrote:
| In other countries is it still expected that one parent
| gives up their career in order to raise children? In
| America that went out of fashion after WW2.
| refurb wrote:
| Vietnam, who has only had 19 cases (and very few new ones
| lately), closed their schools a few weeks back.
|
| Last I heard that may be extended to the end of March.
| anonsivalley652 wrote:
| It's good that they're on top of it. Better to be too cautious
| than make 2020 another list of pandemics wikipedia entry
| rounded to hundreds of thousands of dead. This one is
| especially bad because the carriers are asymptomatic while
| spreading it, and then suddenly most older men are being
| admitted to the hospital fighting for their lives.
| NhanH wrote:
| It was a bit easier for Vietnam, since the schools were closed
| for Lunar New Year and we just kept it closed. However the
| government is discussing whether to open it again next week...
| Potentially bad timing to do so.
| tasogare wrote:
| I think next will be universities (we already cancelled a
| conference in mine). Japan has taken the issue too lightly since
| the beginning, it's good they finally start acting on it.
| jdshaffer wrote:
| Not sure if the universities will close, unless things get much
| worse. The universities here are already on Spring Break -- the
| semester / year ended at the start of February and the new
| school year won't start until the beginning of April. So, it's
| most likely they universities will just stay as they are and
| wait and see.
|
| IF things get worse, I'm not sure what the universities will do
| here.
| jackschultz wrote:
| I don't see comments on this yet but I'll says some of that is
| because of the Olympics based in Tokyo this summer. I heard the
| other day about how there's kind of a cutoff point in May
| determining if it needs to be postponed, pushed, or moved. The
| Olympics is still huge and if your country is hosting, I can see
| them wanting to close schools to try anything to stop the
| possible spread for people to trust and want to still go and
| compete.
| mirekrusin wrote:
| You can't move olympics. They can only be cancelled or they can
| do something without spectators/locals only maybe not to loose
| trucks of money on broadcasting agreements etc. Travel to Japan
| is pretty much banned on all orgs/companies so good luck with
| organising anything in this conditions.
| saiya-jin wrote:
| Why it can't be +1 year tentatively? I see no showstopper,
| all contracts remain. A lot of pain locally, but better for
| everybody rather than just cancelling.
| URSpider94 wrote:
| There is a very full worldwide calendar of lower-tier
| events that take place in the other 3.75 out of four years
| when the Olympics aren't happening, some of which would
| have to be canceled to accommodate. There's also the issue
| of clearing all of the massive hotel room blocks needed,
| and re-working the schedules of all of the Olympic venues.
|
| It could probably be done, but it will be very painful.
| anticensor wrote:
| Not +1, but +2 is possible.
| kingosticks wrote:
| But then you end up delaying the Olympics AND cancelling
| the World Championships. Better off just canceling IMO.
| 0xffff2 wrote:
| Does the situation in Japan even really matter when you're
| making that call? If the virus is still rampant in the rest of
| the world, surely they're still going to cancel.
| magduf wrote:
| I honestly wonder why any country would want to host the
| Olympics. It costs an enormous amount of money, and I'm pretty
| sure that it's been found that the host country never really
| recoups that "investment"; instead the taxpayers fund the
| construction of a bunch of big facilities that are never used
| again. The world would be better off just having 2 permanent
| locations for the Olympics (summer and winter) and reusing them
| every time.
| ghaff wrote:
| Prestige. For country, state, city and all the associated
| organizers/politicians/etc. The idea of permanent locations
| is perennially suggested and never goes much of anywhere.
| mekster wrote:
| Not just the hosting country but TV business globally. They
| have other big events later and can't afford to have them all
| go over each others.
| reustle wrote:
| For those of you curious about the state of COVID-19 in Japan, I
| created an open source tracker that has gained a lot of momentum.
|
| Source Code: https://github.com/reustle/covid19japan/
|
| Tracker Itself: https://covid19japan.com
|
| Twitter Thread:
| https://twitter.com/reustle/status/1229313493808992257
|
| (copied from another thread)
| mekster wrote:
| Local news source says death count is 8 now.
| xutopia wrote:
| Any chance you could change the map to cases per capita? As
| someone who is not from Japan I don't know if each area on the
| map has 1 or 1 million habitants.
| BookPage wrote:
| Wow this is awesome, I would love for this to be a global
| thing. Are you aware of any ports for other countries?
| hiccuphippo wrote:
| There's a global map and charts at https://outbreak.cc
|
| Also the /r/coronavirus subreddit has a daily post with
| changes per country.
| paulmd wrote:
| you should avoid the r/coronavirus subreddit, a pro-china
| mod has taken over and is actively suppressing China-
| related news and signal-boosting news on other countries.
| The head mod recently started an AMA with the stated
| purpose of banning "troublemakers". It's effectively a pro-
| china messaging operation at this point.
|
| China is very worried about this, it represents a
| potentially existential threat to CCP's political control
| of the country. That's why they were jailing doctors who
| reported the outbreak and so on. Maintaining media control
| of the narrative is important and in 2020 that of course
| includes social media like Reddit.
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/Bannedfromcoronavirus/comments/f3u
| v...
|
| Or, read it if you want, but be aware that it's going to be
| downplaying the China situation and playing up the
| situation in other countries to make China look better.
| Treat it like reading RT or something.
|
| (and on a more general note, Reddit's system for choosing
| moderation is terrible. They just give control to whoever
| is first to register some obvious brand-name or whatever,
| and there's really no system to appeal it, unless you want
| to try and start your own subreddit using some different
| name. And like domain names, there's really only so many
| reasonable permutations of a given name.)
| drclau wrote:
| There are many, but I personally follow this one:
|
| https://covid19info.live/ (formerly wuflu.live)
|
| Here's a list of other similar
| websites/apps/telegram/whatsapp groups:
|
| https://github.com/abuuzayr/coronavirus-apps/
| awa wrote:
| Here's a global tracker: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/a
| pps/opsdashboard/index.h...
| reustle wrote:
| Not aware of any ports, no, but I'm sure there are others
| working on similar projects. Feel free to fork if you think
| it would be helpful!
|
| Beware, we're removing mapbox because it's costing me big $
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| Our county school system has a remote learning platform in place
| that is used for bad weather days. It keeps the schools from
| needing to do make up days. I wonder how long it could be
| effective. It seems like an ok way to handle lessons and
| coursework for a few days but I wonder if there would be a wide
| gap in student achievement if it needed to go beyond that limited
| scope.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| I teach high school English. We have a similar system. It is
| fine for the odd day here or there, but it significantly limits
| the level of intervention that is possible when students run
| into problems with their work. IMO - We would have a hard time
| maintaining our current level of expectation if my school had
| to rely on our remote learning program for an extended period
| of time.
| Thlom wrote:
| Just curious, how extreme weather do you get where you live? We
| have some rough weather at times, but I've never heard of
| closed anything due to bad weather.
| defterGoose wrote:
| No snow days? I weep for your childhood.
| ghaff wrote:
| In large swaths of the US, schools (especially grade school
| and high school) typically close for some number of days each
| year due to snow. There can be other weather events too but
| snow's the common one.
| Loughla wrote:
| Most schools in the midwest US actually build a school
| calendar that is 7-8 days (or so) longer than is actually
| necessary. That way if they have to take snow days, they're
| not going until July; alternatively, if they don't take
| snow days, everyone gets excited to be let out early. . .
| when it's really the legal time to be out of school.
| bluGill wrote:
| I've never heard of a school actually letting out early
| though. Last year my son had to go an extra week though
| because they used more than the planed days off.
| cka wrote:
| I can't speak for the op, but in Minnesota (in the northern
| part of the US), there are days in the winter when the
| temperature gets as low as -30F (~ -35C) with very high
| winds. This can make for very dangerous travel. Occasionally
| there are snow storms that make the roads impassable for part
| of the day.
|
| On these sorts of days, the schools are sometimes closed to
| keep people off the roads.
| hermitdev wrote:
| I grew up in Montana, same latitude as MN. The entirety of
| my K-12 schooling was done there. We never once had our
| schools close for snow, but we did have 2 closures due to
| extreme cold. Once it was so cold, the school's boilers
| couldn't keep up heating the buildings. The other, the
| boilers were going so hard they actually managed to start a
| fire in the ceilings.
|
| That said, there were days where snow prevented me from
| getting to school and days where the drive home was
| treacherous (the only way to tell where the road was the
| highway reflectors sticking out of the snow). I also
| learned how to chain up the first year I had my license.
| Nearly every day in December that year, I had to chain up
| to get home (water on ice and ~14% grade on the first hill
| up to the house).
| dboreham wrote:
| Also in Montata. Our school has closed for one day in 30
| years due to weather. This was due to busses not being
| able to travel the town roads. Our kids would have been
| at school since they don't ride the bus. They've failed
| to get to school one day when my plow truck ended up
| stuck sideways across our road.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| _> sometimes_
|
| Well that settles it, I'm not moving to Minnesota
| bluGill wrote:
| You have to be prepared for the normal. I have friend
| from MN who lived down south. It took them a long time to
| get used to the idea that everything shuts down from a cm
| of snow on the ground - something that would barely keep
| us at the speed limit (as opposed to the whatever over
| most people do...). While we do have practice in ice, I
| expect (without looking up) more people in MN go in the
| ditch when there is a cm of snow than people in southern
| states as a result of their paranoid.
|
| In MN though (this applies to many other areas of the
| world that get a lot of snow/ice/cold) if we shut down
| that often we would get only have 1-2 weeks of travel
| between November and April and so it obviously isn't
| possible to play is safe. So we deal with it by having
| warm coats, boots, and other infrastructure.
| [deleted]
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| I'm in Georgia. Anything that results in ice on the roads is
| treated as extreme. Sometimes they just push back the start
| time of the school day but if they think ice will be on the
| road throughout the day, they'll do a remote learning day. I
| think they're more likely to err on the side of caution now
| that remote learning is an option. Flooding also has been
| cause for remote learning days. I've never received a good
| answer to the question of how they handle students without
| the appropriate equipment at home for the remote learning
| days. It's an affluent county with many tech workers so maybe
| it's not much of an issue.
| bart_spoon wrote:
| Presumably you don't live in the Midwest. Over the course of
| K-12 I had school days cancelled for: snow(probably 12x,
| maybe more), extreme cold (2-3x), freezing rain(2x), and
| flooding (1x). And that is the days it's actually cancelled.
| There were about as many days where school was started
| 2-hours later or let out early due to snow, extreme cold, or
| occasionally dense fog.
| fludlight wrote:
| Reasons why school was canceled in places I have lived: snow,
| hurricanes, floods, wildfire (smoke and danger of burning
| down), and weather related power outages.
| zamfi wrote:
| Are you me? This is just NYC & SF! :)
| croon wrote:
| I'll agree that learning is (hopefully) the main point of
| school, but we can't dismiss the effect that having kids at
| home means there needs to be one adult at home as well (up to
| some age at least).
| millisecond wrote:
| Curious which software platform your school system uses, if you
| can share.
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| https://itslearning.com/us/
| eisa01 wrote:
| Oh no, that platform was a horror show 10-20 years ago, and
| I'm not sure it has improved...
| BurningFrog wrote:
| Somewhere, a demonic Japanese child's spell has finally
| succeeded.
| anticensor wrote:
| This is Japan. Parallel schools would appear :)
| jdshaffer wrote:
| Announced just about an hour ago, taking the country here (Japan)
| by surprise. Most JHS and HS are in the middle of final exams,
| and public High School entrance exams are next week. (Most
| university entrance exams are just finishing, though).
|
| A hopefully good move, but might have been nicer to have given
| teachers and students more time to prepare (i.e., announce it a
| week earlier, perhaps?).
|
| _shrug_ Just my $0.02
| Iv wrote:
| I have the opposite opinion. As long as you know it is the good
| decision, do it. Even preventing one class contamination could
| be crucial for preventing the epidemic to spread.
|
| He announced it late in the afternoon but I even consider
| irresponsible to make that from next week and let the schools
| open tomorrow if you consider the situation so dangerous as to
| warrant school closures.
| pbhjpbhj wrote:
| >Officials say 2 of the 15 new cases are children under 10
| years of age.
|
| >The latest cases bring the number of confirmed infections in
| Hokkaido to 54, the most in Japan.
|
| How were they supposed to know last week that this would
| happen? Or are you proposing be can stop the spread of the
| virus for a week to give people chance to get ready??
| jdshaffer wrote:
| No, I simply mean it would have been nice last week to let
| the schools know he's considering cancelling schools. By
| making this a sudden announcement he's caught all the schools
| on the hop, you might say. Today (Friday) is the one and only
| day left to wrap up the school year (school years end in
| March and start in April here). So final exams will be
| cancelled, maybe graduation ceremonies will be cancelled,
| students have to empty out their desks (they don't have
| lockers here).
|
| Basically, teachers and students have to finish up the school
| year TODAY, with no advanced warning or time to plan.
|
| So, I completely agree with Abe-san's desire to curb the
| spread of the virus, but being in the education system myself
| (and having 3 kids affected by his decision), a bit of an
| advanced warning would have GREATLY helped the schools, the
| kids, and the parents.
|
| _shrug_ But as I said, it 's just my thoughts and hopes and
| desires as a father being affected by it! :-)
| jdshaffer wrote:
| Japanese Source:
| https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20200227/k10012304751000.ht...
| acoderhasnoname wrote:
| too late to do that now? it's already in the community
| dredmorbius wrote:
| The point of epidemiological containment is to reduce the R
| value such that R<1. Once this is done, eventually, inevitably,
| the epidemic will burn out.
|
| Yes, more people will become infected, yes, some will die.
|
| But the level of person-to-person transmission will have fallen
| below the level necessary for the epidemic to sustain itself,
| and it will slowly decline and fade out.
|
| Perfect containment, 100% effective vaccines, 100% vaccination
| rates, (neither of which apply here: there is not yet a
| vaccine), 100% travel and contact curtailment, 100% sanitation,
| 100% filtration, are not required. Only sufficiently effective
| methods to reduce transmission.
|
| Of which, strong, effective, and widespread gathering and
| travel restrictions _within or from epidemic zones_ are a very
| sensible tool.
| wtdo wrote:
| I can't find any relevant data, but I wonder what effects
| previous quarantines (eg during Spanish flu) had on other
| infectious agents (eg common cold, norovirus, etc). Nobody
| was being quarantined for those other diseases, but I'd think
| a general quarantine would have had an effect on them as
| well. Maybe there ought to be a monthly quarantine every
| year, kinda like the Jewish year of jubilee.
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| One goal is to slow the infection rate, so hospitals are not
| overburdened. Never too late to do that.
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