[HN Gopher] Open-source "pandemic ventilator"
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Open-source "pandemic ventilator"
Author : ericb
Score : 56 points
Date : 2020-02-29 21:05 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.instructables.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.instructables.com)
| arcticbull wrote:
| Very cool project, and a fun article, though I can't help feel
| like this thing is more likely to kill you than nCoV-19. It's got
| a mortality rate of 0.7% (a few times worse than the normal flu)
| and I'm betting there's a much more than 0.7% chance this thing
| blows your lungs clean out haha.
| popotamonga wrote:
| Can you actually buy a consumer ventilator? I would see myself
| paying up to 10k for a ventilator to have at home just in case...
| refurb wrote:
| If you're so sick you need a ventilator, you're also going to
| need a ton of supportive care as well.
|
| The chances of a ventilator being the one missing link between
| life and death (outside of a hospital) is pretty small.
| mjmdavis wrote:
| Doing this could deprive hundreds of people of a life saving
| device.
| Aeolun wrote:
| If it's on the open market it's presumably not saving any
| lives.
|
| If it does get to the point where we have to pull everything
| off the open market, then maybe, but you can always go and
| offer it to a local hospital.
| [deleted]
| TylerE wrote:
| A cpap, or especially s bipap will come pretty close. Not the
| same in that isn't true life support, but it does make
| breathing _much_ easier.
|
| I use a cpap at home for sleep apnea and was on a bipap for
| about 48 hours when hospitalized for pnuemonia.
|
| Machines cost about $500-1500 dollars. Do require a percription
| though.
| elric wrote:
| CPAP makes inhaling easier, but it makes exhaling harder.
| Some CPAP devices have a setting that drops the pressure when
| exhaling, but not all of them do.
|
| CPAP devices don't require a prescription to buy in many
| places around the world. You can easily buy them online, and
| setting the pressure is very easy on many models. A
| prescription could be useful for figuring out the pressure
| you need, but it's pretty common for people in countries with
| shitty healthcare systems to just buy a machine and self-
| titrate.
| maire wrote:
| You used to be able to buy high quality CPAP machines on
| Amazon. I don't see them any more.
|
| There are also streamlined processes to get the prescription.
| You take the machine home over night and they monitor your
| breathing remotely.
|
| Years ago I successfully argued with a CPAP company about
| their jacked up rates and was able to find the exact same
| CPAP machine for about 1/3 the cost.
|
| Good to know that I can also use it for a pandemic. ;-)
| JshWright wrote:
| CPAP is a good way to prevent someone from getting intubated
| later on. It doesn't reduce the risk entirely, but early and
| aggressive CPAP usage can definitely reduce the likelihood of
| a pt needing intubation further down the line (more common w/
| asthma/COPD, but there is evidence supporting it's use w/
| ARDS pt's as well)
| JshWright wrote:
| Would you also hire a respiratory therapist on retainer to
| operate it for you?
| popotamonga wrote:
| My wife is ICU medic
| Aeolun wrote:
| Probably better to hire one to train you in it's operation.
| im3w1l wrote:
| Wow to think someone wrote this 12 years ago. I feel there is a
| lesson here but I don't know what.
| mjmdavis wrote:
| This has genuinely given me hope. It would be great to see more
| ideas and work around this.
| ficklepickle wrote:
| It reminds me of the baby incubator made from car parts.
|
| https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/news-blog/babys-hot-whe...
| sitkack wrote:
| The number one issue with ventilators is bacteria and second is
| if they fail you die.
|
| This absolutely the measure of last resort, but as the pandemic
| spreads there will be ventilator shortages and people that don't
| have to die will die.
| Confiks wrote:
| Here [1] is another interesting low-cost version of ventilator.
| It's an immersion two-phase continuous positive airway pressure
| (CPAP) device, of which all the parts are printable. The patient
| still needs to be able to initiate breaths themselves, but it
| will cost a lot less energy to breath.
|
| Combine it with a (admittedly lot harder to make) homemade
| pressure swing adsorbtion system that delivers high-oxygen air,
| using zeolite sieves and alternating pressure [2].
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHiRTMQCf1Y
|
| [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylj4oOnlIY0
| 7a1c9427 wrote:
| The naivete being expressed in the comments here and as the
| premise behind the ventilator is astounding. I though I would
| share some information to put things in perspective:
|
| - If you are unwell enough to need a ventilator then the
| ventilator itself is going to the least of your worries. You will
| need the drugs and expertise to care for you. The current
| respiratory illnesses going around aren't like polio and the iron
| lungs where all you need is help breathing.
|
| - If you can sort the above to have any hope of survival you need
| a "modern" ventilator that can operate in way that this simple
| homebrew device is physically not capable of offering. Most of
| the improvement in caring for people with ARDS is based upon
| careful and tight control of ventilatory parameters to prevent
| secondary lung injury.
|
| - Modern ventilators have a price tag of if you have to ask you
| can't afford it.
|
| So in summary this is a nice build but serves no practical
| purpose.
| prostheticvamp wrote:
| This is correct.
|
| Particularly the "if you are unwell enough to need the vent,
| the vent is the least of Your worries."
|
| The vent keeps you oxygenating while we address the (usually
| multiple, overlapping and interacting) severe issues that led
| to you needing the vent. This is ICU-level care. A vent without
| an ICU doc and appropriate medications (and ideally a resp tech
| and a nurse) might as well be an origami crane.
|
| Hospitals will run out of one those other things, on average,
| before they run out of vents.
| greesil wrote:
| I was thinking that with the shortage of antiviral masks in the
| consumer space, if there was a way to diy one. Extra points if it
| involves a 3d printer.
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