[HN Gopher] Novel Laser-Based Method Effectively De-Ices Aircraft
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Novel Laser-Based Method Effectively De-Ices Aircraft
Author : rajnathani
Score : 54 points
Date : 2020-03-06 18:24 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (optics.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (optics.org)
| AWildC182 wrote:
| Anyone with a better background, are micro surface features
| required for this kind of thing or could teflon/rain-x type
| chemical coatings create a more durable/corrosion
| resistant/easily repairable effect?
| AWildC182 wrote:
| Interesting approach and hugely useful if practical, though it
| bears mentioning that the leading edges on aircraft experience a
| fair amount of abrasion from dust, debris, and insects. I wonder
| how long this treatment would be effective for in a real world
| environment
| zkms wrote:
| the paper does mentions that; and honestly i'm interested in
| how long this sort of micropatterning lasts when it's
| incorporated in an aircraft, as well as how its anti-ice
| performance is affected as it gets fouled/abraded:
|
| > Further research is required to understand the influence of
| different icing parameters on ice adhesion and to assess the
| compatibility and robustness of such surfaces in operational
| environment (i.e., rain and sand erosion, UV resistance,
| interaction with other fluids, such as hydraulic and anti-
| icing)
| jcims wrote:
| Super important question, first thing that came to mind. How
| would you even test it for efficacy? Just look for ice building
| up and say 'welp, time for refinish?'
| colechristensen wrote:
| There are wind tunnels for testing icing behaviors, not too
| hard to do an accelerated aging test and come up with
| standard procedures.
| AWildC182 wrote:
| Could be easier said than done. There are lots of edge
| cases that could become a problem in real use. Stuff like
| surface contamination from various fluids or environmental
| factors.
| [deleted]
| t0mas88 wrote:
| Turn off wing anti-ice, fly around, if you get ice buildup
| you turn anti-ice back on?
|
| Having anti-ice on decreases performance and increases fuel
| use. So being able to fly without anti-ice on for longer is
| better.
| AWildC182 wrote:
| Would be nice to save weight on full size anti ice systems.
| Flying around to test anti icing is also not the greatest
| approach. If ice starts to build up and you shed it, it can
| come off in chunks and break things.
| Animats wrote:
| Right. The press release claims it's being used on some Airbus
| 350, but that may just mean "we treated a small part of the
| wing so we can see what happens".
|
| Fragility is a big problem with most of these microsurface
| treatments. There's the "Never Wet" treatment you can buy now;
| it's a two-component paint that hardens into tiny points to
| which water cannot adhere. Works great when new, wears out
| easily. It has to be the top surface or it won't work, so
| there's no way to protect it.
|
| Same for that "ultra black" material. OK for camera interiors
| and other protected optical systems, too fragile to expose.
|
| Amusingly, a common laser process for steel does exactly the
| opposite of this anti-icing process. The idea is to roughen the
| surface for painting, but in a regular way. Same effect as
| sandblasting, but because the pattern is regular, you get a
| smoother paint surface and don't have to sand the primer layer.
| Used in auto manufacturing.
| blakesterz wrote:
| Sadly it appears this is not a giant laser that shoots the plane
| when it's covered with ice. It's a way to change the surface of
| the wings so that ice/snow doesn't stick in the first place.
| [deleted]
| Proven wrote:
| Damn.. I clicked on the comments to see if the tech can be
| adopted to dealing with insects...
| zwieback wrote:
| Yeah, I was expecting to read about how to get a gigantic laser
| out onto the runways. Still cool, though.
| hinkley wrote:
| Austin Powers 4:
|
| Scott, I asked you for an airplane with frickin' lasers on
| it, and you give me a plane covered with what? What is this
| guys? It's sandpaper. You covered a plane in sandpaper. Do I
| have to do everything around here myself?
|
| What? Wha wha? Are you gonna cry? Does Scotty wanna cry?
| NovemberWhiskey wrote:
| Right - this is anti-icing; not deicing.
| frandroid wrote:
| Did Fraunhofer just repurpose MP3 codecs to aluminium surface
| patterns?
| DailyHN wrote:
| Very clever.
|
| Also seems like something pulled from ancient aliens.
| excalibur wrote:
| I was thinking Tony Stark. "How did you solve the icing
| problem?"
| pjmorris wrote:
| Nice. I'd drummed up Dr Evil, "Mr. Powers, you'll notice that
| all the sharks (planes) have laser beams attached to their
| heads. I figure every creature deserves a warm meal."
| ghastmaster wrote:
| What happens when they paint the parts to prevent corrosion? I
| imagine all the properties of the laser etching are negated.
| bdamm wrote:
| I'm betting this becomes a paint job option. While it looks
| appealing I also can't help but suspect real world will just
| fill those crevices up with bug guts pretty quick.
| [deleted]
| kilo_bravo_3 wrote:
| I imagine this technique would be most useful on the leading
| edge of wings and the engine nose cowlings.
|
| On many aircraft those parts are left unpainted anyways.
| frandroid wrote:
| Maybe it could be combined with this technique so the aircraft
| body can be laser-etched for both colour and anti-icing:
| https://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=3106
| oliveshell wrote:
| As far as I understand it, corrosion isn't that much of a worry
| with aluminum airframes-- as long as the plane doesn't spend
| too much time near salt water.
|
| There are many past and present airline liveries where the
| fuselage is left largely bare, for instance:
|
| https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Boeing_7...
| oliveshell wrote:
| To the person who downvoted the above without leaving a
| comment:
|
| Is this not the case? I know for a fact that planes whose
| home airport is near the ocean have more issues with
| corrosion.
|
| If I'm wrong, I'd be genuinely delighted to learn _how_.
| 0_____0 wrote:
| didnt downvote you but your link is broken (lost 'g' at the
| end)
| oliveshell wrote:
| Whoops! Fixed, thanks.
| metaphor wrote:
| Just because it looks bare doesn't mean it's unfinished.
|
| If I specified sheet aluminum for Type II Class 3 chemical
| conversion per MIL-DTL-5541, any materials QC professional
| would be hard pressed to visually determine that anything was
| actually done to the material.
|
| To be sure, no, MIL-DTL-5541 isn't an uncommon spec
| constrained to military applications.
| 0_____0 wrote:
| any idea what they use on aircraft skins?
| metaphor wrote:
| That's not an application you can generalize. Literally
| _everything_ is dependent on requirements.
| hinkley wrote:
| I know I've noticed on airplanes before that while some of
| the wing is aluminum colored, some areas in particular are
| painted a vaguely aluminum-colored shade of grey.
|
| And I think the... it seems they're called Krueger flaps?
| Those are often painted aren't they? And those I'd think
| you'd definitely want to de-ice.
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