[HN Gopher] Airbnb's loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, befo...
___________________________________________________________________
Airbnb's loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus
Author : ninninhall
Score : 90 points
Date : 2020-03-12 21:26 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bloomberg.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bloomberg.com)
| djohnston wrote:
| I will stay in airbnb if someone else manages everything,
| otherwise I'm only in hotels now. I hate having to coordinate key
| pickups, I've shown up at listed places that weren't supposed to
| be listed by some middleman company.
|
| When I travel, the place I stay needs as few liabilities as
| possible, and airbnb cannot provide that.
|
| I still use the for the experience listings sometimes, but never
| for lodging.
| godzillabrennus wrote:
| I've used them four times and only had one good AirBNB
| experience. Hotels are so competitive in price in the markets
| I've visited that I never bother anymore.
| anorphirith wrote:
| Agreed, my experiences have also been very mediocre. the peace
| of mind of using hotels is becoming more and more evident.
| resters wrote:
| If you read the reviews and stay with a good host, you are
| getting a level of service far beyond most hotels.
|
| Not sure what your experience was like, but I'd be surprised
| if the host has good reviews.
| telesilla wrote:
| I've gone back to using hotels given the cancellation policy of
| AirBnB is ridiculous. As we've seen these last days, plans need
| to be able to change and I don't mind paying a small premium
| for a cancellation-friendly hotel or serviced apartment.
| ghaff wrote:
| It does vary. I locked in an AirBnB for a March conference
| before I had access to a room block--and before the current
| virus craziness started--because standard room rates were
| insane. But I was able to cancel things a couple weeks back
| when the conference was canceled.
|
| That said, I've never actually stayed in a room booked
| through AirBnB (although I've stayed at B&Bs which also list
| there).
| resters wrote:
| Airbnb has a variety of different cancellation policies
| available to hosts.
|
| As a host, I use the strict one because I can't always
| schedule a last minute cleaning, and I find that people who
| plan ahead and don't need to change are more respectful
| guests.
| mosdl wrote:
| I only use them in areas where there aren't many or any hotels,
| quality is much better in those areas usually.
| komali2 wrote:
| My girlfriend and I used to think the same until we started
| staying at "shared" airbnbs, i.e. where you're staying at
| actual bed and breakfasts or someone's house as opposed to just
| a random apartment held by a Chinese superconglomerate filled
| with 1ply toilet paper.
|
| Now we get to have really cool experiences - staying on a
| couple farms and watching our hosts go to work milking cows or
| feeding horses, staying in a really old Mexican woman's huge
| mansion and looking at pictures on the wall of her and her
| family with presidents, popes, all sorts of other really cool
| art, then having her cook us a delicious breakfast. That kinda
| thing.
|
| If we wanna stay in a hotel and just have eachother to keep
| ourselves company, Airbnb can't compete. But for a really cool
| side-experience to the main vacation, that's something a hotel
| can't offer.
| simonsarris wrote:
| Yeah I've met some great people via Airbnb. Some I've
| contacted privately after to stay with when traveling.
| randall wrote:
| This is airbnb's special thing. I wish I could filter for
| only these experiences.
| gwd wrote:
| When traveling with a group where you want more than one room,
| I almost always find renting a house / flat on AirBNB a better
| option: "private" (to the group) common areas and a kitchen are
| especially nice to have.
|
| When traveling alone or with just one other person (with whom
| I'm sharing a room), I agree, hotels are hard to beat.
| Axsuul wrote:
| Airbnbs are still differentiated from hotels. They are great
| for large parties whereas hotels are not so much. They are also
| great for secluded and more local locations.
| trulyrandom wrote:
| To add a positive anecdote, I've had 6 experiences with Airbnb
| and all of them were great. If you're traveling with just 1-3
| people, the prices are comparable to hotels, as you say. But
| when traveling with a large group of people, I've found that
| Airbnb is a lot cheaper.
| TLightful wrote:
| Same. Am kind of tired of Airbnb now.
|
| Another example why, often the facilities which are advertised
| making an apartment seem on par with a hotel, often end up
| being some poorly maintained "home" version.
| jedberg wrote:
| My family and I use AirBnB almost every time we travel,
| especially when we go internationally. It's the only way to
| make sure we get a full kitchen, a necessity with the kids.
|
| We always use Superhosts, and have never had an issue.
|
| The only odd thing we had once was a host telling us that if
| anyone asks we are his "friends from America".
|
| I think the key is sticking to superhosts. Also read all the
| reviews for the juicy nuggets. Sometimes there are some big red
| (or green) flags in the reviews.
| LeoTinnitus wrote:
| Lol that's hilarious. I wouldn't rock the boat and if the
| authorities pursed further I'd just say we were under duress.
| jedberg wrote:
| I mean I'm pretty sure the only "authorities" the owner was
| worried about were the neighbors telling the HOA. :)
|
| But yea, it was funny. Luckily it never came up. We were
| only there for a few hours to sleep before moving on.
| Ididntdothis wrote:
| My experiences have all been very good so far. Maybe because I
| am a cheap traveller and decent hotels are outside my price
| range.
| neonate wrote:
| My experience is the opposite. I've used Airbnb dozens of times
| by now (am typing this from one, in fact), have rarely had a
| bad experience, and always find it cheaper than hotels,
| especially nice hotels. The only consistent negative, in my
| experience, is that there's so much variation that I end up
| spending way too much time comparing listings before picking
| one. I've gotten good at it but there's a paralysis issue and I
| don't really want to spend a whole evening on something like
| that. I think I have less anxiety around picking a hotel
| because hotels are more predictable. But I'd _hate_ to go back
| to before Airbnb.
| alexandec wrote:
| I've had bad experiences with multiple Airbnbs including:
| - showing up at night with the key not in the agreed location,
| and not being able to contact the owner until the next day
| - showing up and someone else was already in the unit - a
| webcam was plugged in and placed on the bedside table with no
| warning - conditions in the unit were significantly worse
| than those shown in the photos
|
| All these listings had great reviews. Airbnb needs to make some
| real changes or they will lose further trust among customers.
| Jommi wrote:
| And then you give a bad review and those places lose their
| listing?
|
| Not sure what you want to do? Pay more so that Airbnb reviews
| them for you? Are you really up for paying old hotel prices
| again?
| dman wrote:
| Same here - over time the positive surprises at Airbnb stays
| are becoming rarer.
| pucado wrote:
| It's kinda surreal to see this happen. A lot of startups which
| were around the lifestyle sector also the most fragile are
| possibly going to have a heavy impact.
| pucado wrote:
| Do think WeWork would get hit as well
| Brendinooo wrote:
| I'd imagine there's a sizable group of people who think Airbnb is
| only worth it if the price (and maybe location) is significantly
| better than a hotel, and that seems to be less true as the
| company matures.
| notyourday wrote:
| There's also a significant group of people who thinks AirBnb
| works very well at the 2x-4x hotel price for a much nicer
| space. Hotels simply don't have enough of those rooms or if
| those rooms do exist they are considered to be <some
| ridiculously named set of> suites that are billed at ridiculous
| daily rate.
|
| At below hotel prices AirBnb competes with cockroach infested
| motels.
| JenrHywy wrote:
| It's also about facilities. Having a full kitchen and separate
| rooms makes a world of difference when you're traveling with
| kids.
| 88840-8855 wrote:
| Here, all my friends and my girlfriend are using airbnb for the
| reason that it is significantly cheaper than a hotel. If a
| hotel is only 10-15% more expensive, I also usually take the
| hotel.
|
| Regarding the loss - airbnb is already mature and still
| generating so much loss? What a bad way to run a business.
| Would not invest.
| almost_usual wrote:
| So COVID-19 ended all IPO hope?
| coleifer wrote:
| The original idea was great, but people have gamed it so hard
| that it's falling apart because of lack of trust (in my opinion).
| jedberg wrote:
| I wonder if this is just seasonality for their business. A lot of
| people travel in Nov/Dec, but mostly it's to see family, so they
| often already have a place to stay when they get where they're
| going.
|
| I suspect summer is their big quarter. I wouldn't be surprised if
| they made their fiscal year start in March so that they can get
| that strong quarter at the beginning of the year, like how Apple
| starts their in September so they get Christmas at the beginning
| of the fiscal year instead of the end.
| teachrdan wrote:
| Not according to the article:
|
| "The world's biggest home-sharing company reported a loss of
| $276.4 million excluding interest, taxes, depreciation and
| amortization, compared with a loss of $143.7 million a year
| earlier"
|
| The loss increased by almost 100% versus the same time last
| year--and that's before COVID-19. This really makes me wonder
| how their planned IPO this year will perform.
| linuxftw wrote:
| Similar losses to SNAP. They'll probably be fine.
| CydeWeys wrote:
| At this point I'm rooting for them to go bankrupt and fail,
| because they continue illegally operating in my city. It is
| illegal to lease entire units in NYC for <30 day spans, yet
| AirBnb does absolutely nothing to stop these listings and indeed
| refuses to cooperate with the city government in shutting them
| down.
| fellowniusmonk wrote:
| I don't mind non-violent civil disobedience like Airbnb
| promotes, no matter the issue I think it's a great reaction to
| bad laws and poor infrastructure planning.
| 3pt14159 wrote:
| I have a friend who got into hosting AirBnbs pretty early. Bought
| a 4 unit place in a rough part of Toronto that was still pretty
| close to downtown and lived in one of the units while he AirBnbed
| out the other three. Occasionally he'd go on a trip and AirBnb
| out his own unit.
|
| It was enough money for him to cover his mortgage and not have to
| work if he watched his spending. He's bleeding money now and it
| started about two months ago. This virus is going to hammer
| leveraged AirBnb hosts for a while and I think we'll start to see
| a wave of AirBnb bankruptcies.
| yumraj wrote:
| I hope it's not the Groupon story repeating, where they went from
| funky-accounting to GAAP and all numbers had to be re-reported,
| obviously not in the company's favor.
| rolltiide wrote:
| Cant AirBnB just stop marketing and slow their runway burn to
| almost nothing?
|
| They dont provide infrastructure or subsidies it should be okay
| foobar1962 wrote:
| Airbnb is a middle-man, they make money from the transactions
| (bookings) between guest and host. The more bookings, the more
| money they make.
|
| The number of bookings is decreasing, and they are refunding
| their cut from bookings made months ago.
| danielovichdk wrote:
| My experience with AirBnb has been good but often I feel I miss
| something. If possible I always almost choose a hotel, because it
| seems cleaner, service oriented, often has breakfast and a place
| to have a drink or a coffee.
|
| There are places that is more suitable for renting a private
| place, but in where there are tourists there are often better
| offers at hotels.
| ThePhysicist wrote:
| In the beginning it was nice, you could actually meet
| interesting people. Now it mostly feels anonymous and
| impersonal, often you end up sharing an apartment with two or
| three other tenants and the landlord doesn't even show up once.
| I prefer hotels now, price-wise the difference to AirBnB isn't
| very large.
| fellowniusmonk wrote:
| In Austin, TX Airbnb incontrovertibly revealed that hotel
| room volume was insufficient for demand and was suppressing
| tourism and its inflow of outside cash.
|
| The common complaint about insufficient & overpriced hotels
| stopped being theory and was proved out by an elastic
| federated supply that _at least initially_ put more money in
| the hands of private parties.
|
| High cost of entry for building hotels in the urban core &
| decrepit central planning suppressed the cities growth for
| years. At first hotel companies and their "advocates"
| complained, but then after they realized it wasn't going to
| go away, the cranes showed up and started addressing the real
| problem.
|
| I don't know if Airbnb will be forever, but things like it
| should at least be cyclically introduced to reveal
| infrastructure and planning failures, then local private
| parties can solve the problem and profit while planning
| commissions try to keep up.
| JenrHywy wrote:
| I'm the opposite, as well. We recently visited the US for a
| month - our travel agent booked hotels in Anaheim and San Diego
| for us, and we used Airbnb for the rest. The first hotel was
| fine, but barely. The second was horrendous - it stank, the
| carpets were wet and so dirty our socks turned black. We bailed
| and booked an Airbnb. All the Airbnbs that we booked were at
| least as good as we expected them to be, usually better.
|
| It's the same story at home in Australia.
|
| The caveat, perhaps, is that as a family of 6 we have trouble
| finding hotel rooms. We also usually book out full places, and
| want no interaction with the host unless things go wrong.
| tomp wrote:
| The best advantage of a hotel, from my point of view, is that
| you know they won't cancel on you last minute.
| resters wrote:
| I'm the opposite. I have had so many good experiences at Airbnb
| properties and a few years ago I started being a host. It's a
| fantastic platform.
|
| You really do have to read the reviews, though, both as a guest
| and as a host.
| flavor8 wrote:
| The review system is flawed.
|
| https://www.businessinsider.com/why-airbnb-reviews-are-a-
| pro...
| nuggien wrote:
| Airbnb is a shitty company. Last october we traveled to Seoul and
| couldn't find the location of the apartment we booked. Even the
| local taxi driver couldn't find it after circling the area for
| ~30 minutes. We called the host during the entire 30 minutes and
| didn't get through to them.
|
| After about 1 hour of time, we decided to call it quits and go
| book a hotel because it was 10pm at night and our kids needed to
| sleep. We were just hoping for a refund with Airbnb. What's their
| policy? "it's up to the host to decide if they want to give a
| refund". What did the host say? "i have great reviews and i
| haven't heard of anyone not being able to find the place." What
| about the fact that you didn't answer your calls? WTF
|
| Similar situation when we booked a place in Tokyo. We asked the
| host whether it would be okay since we have two young children
| who are known to be playful/wild/loud. He assured it was okay and
| assured us the place was big enough to handle all four of us. We
| arrive in tokyo and and the place is tiny. The bathroom is
| literally a 3x3 box with a shower right on top of the toilet. The
| entire room is taken up by 2 beds with no place to move around,
| let alone space for luggage and two kids. On top of that, the
| host's apartment is in a building where the walls are paper thin
| and the neighbors are super sensitive to noise. We did the hosts'
| neighbors a favor and went and got a hotel room. Refund from
| airbnb? Maybe a partial refund? NOPE.
|
| Seriously, I'm never booking anything on airbnb again.
| monkeydust wrote:
| Was literally just reading Airdna's report on covid-19 impact on
| Airbnb revenue. Looks like things will get much worse for them.
|
| https://www.airdna.co/blog/coronavirus-impact-on-global-shor...
| im3w1l wrote:
| I have used Airbnb probably a little over more than ten times.
| And I've been very pleased. From renting a room in an apartment
| with other airbnb renters to renting a room in a hosts house, to
| renting an apartment to renting a whole house with friends, it's
| always been a good experience.
|
| The times we rented houses as a group were the best and most
| memorable.
|
| My experience may be a bit atypical in that I don't care for the
| services a hotel provides, but I greatly value having a bit more
| space than a typical hotel room.
| southphillyman wrote:
| I have started using hotels more lately after almost exclusively
| booking with airbnb for several years. 1 thing that I really
| appreciate about Airbnb still is that it allows you to stay in
| areas that usually don't have a lot of hotels, like Manhattan
| Beach CA or some other mostly residential area that also makes
| sense for tourist to stay. I would hate for them to fail and lose
| those options on a large scale
| notyourwork wrote:
| I stopped because the quality went way down. I used to get real
| hosts and now it's mass scaled corporate rentals without a
| front desk to go talk to. Hotels at least have a front desk to
| go get help from and they are consistent in quality.
| southphillyman wrote:
| Yup, this is why I'm using hotels more now. Too many random
| problems, hosts who are in another country when I'm trying to
| solve issues, and accommodations that are often inconsistent
| with what was portrayed in the listing.
|
| With all of these factors I really need a good deal for it to
| be worth the hassle
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2020-03-12 23:00 UTC)