[HN Gopher] Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell...
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Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy
Author : known
Score : 51 points
Date : 2020-03-14 16:45 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (medicine.wustl.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (medicine.wustl.edu)
| DataDrivenMD wrote:
| This reminds me of the time I spent at the NIH conducting
| research on cancer vaccines. After lots of trial and error, I had
| finally found something that seemed to prevent lung cancer in
| mice. I rushed to show my PI the results. He listened intently
| and asked thoughtful questions. Once I finished, I asked if the
| findings would be worthy of submitting to Nature.
|
| He looked me straight in the eye and said, "I wouldn't publish
| this anywhere, we still have work to do."
|
| "What do you mean?" I asked.
|
| "If Nature published every article that purported to cure a human
| disease based on a mouse model, then I would be next in line for
| the Nobel Prize," he replied.
|
| Harsh but true. The challenge of curing human disease cannot be
| replicated in animal models. At least not yet.
| Amygaz wrote:
| I stopped counting how many times we cured any forms of
| diabetes in various mouse models.
|
| Then there is this thing that bugs me: amount of money spent on
| finding a treatment vs. preventing type 2 diabetes in the first
| place. Because 95% of type 2 cases are caused by life style
| decisions. And as climate change, healthcare costs, covid-19,
| and other self-inflicted societal crises we prefer to wait
| until it chronically costs a massive amount of money (add
| chronic deficit to the list).
| laanako08 wrote:
| It's worth noting that "lifestyle" decisions, are mostly not
| decisions. They're based on the systemic implications of a
| person's class, wealth, and status. If a person has more
| time, and money, and is of a high-enough class, they will be
| better educated on self-care and health, will have the time
| to devote to continually ensuring good health, and will have
| the money to afford high-quality food and activities.
| Diabetes is a disease of poverty, not of character failure.
| jfritsch1984 wrote:
| Healthy food is typically less expensive than junk food.
| The problem is education and motivation. I think diabetes
| is more a disease of affluence. When you can buy twinkies
| and pork chops you're not actually poor. When you are
| really poor you eat rice and beans and some vegetables you
| grow for yourself. And then you don't have diabetes
| typically.
|
| Disclaimer: Not every T2D is purely from a bad diet. But
| many are.
| Arubis wrote:
| When you're sufficiently poor and live in a society that
| insists that you work to qualify for benefits, you
| absolutely do not have time to cook healthy meals.
| Prepared, junky food is a staple.
| jfritsch1984 wrote:
| If you are well informed you could just cook once a week
| and eat that. I do that on the weekend with my family of
| five and it's quite a nice ritual. We cook rice and
| potatoes, put beans and sauce on top. And then put it in
| 20 containers for the week. I can prepare these meals
| within 2 minutes with a microwave. Breakfast is basically
| the same every day: Oat meal with some fruits. In the
| evening we eat bread with spread (which we also make on
| the weekend).
|
| I would say we spend way less on food than your typical
| American. It's really THAT cheap. Also we have a lot of
| food for CoViD-19 as we store a lot of food in our cellar
| all year around (lentils, whole oats, canned beans,
| etc.).
|
| Ah, and we are not poor in any way. I'm among top 5% in
| Germany. I think it's just healthy and sustainable (for
| the same reason we don't own a car).
| pengaru wrote:
| This is nonsense, you don't even need to cook anything at
| all to eat healthy from the grocery store.
|
| You just have to get off your ass and actually go buy
| perishable fresh groceries regularly and plan for the
| week ahead.
|
| Laziness and convenience prevails.
|
| If it's a lack of time, then it's a lack of time to even
| hit the grocery store. Which depending on where you live,
| if it's a food desert situation, may be valid.
| flexblue wrote:
| > Healthy food is typically less expensive than junk
| food.
|
| This isn't true, at least in the US. Or maybe we have a
| very different idea about what "healthy" food is.
|
| Rice, beans and starchy vegetables are problematic for
| various (different) reasons and non-starchy vegetables
| generally aren't very nutritious from a macro
| perspective, which makes them relatively expensive.
| pengaru wrote:
| It is true, the produce department has some of the
| cheapest food in the store. How much is a bundle of
| bananas? That's a week's breakfast.
|
| Unless you only buy organic, then you might go broke
| while hungry.
| flexblue wrote:
| Bananas by themselves are not healthy food, they're very
| high in sugar and have little else to offer.
|
| Produce may look cheap, but if you add up the macros (and
| also some of the micros), it doesn't look cheap at all.
| jfritsch1984 wrote:
| Could you tell me why rice and beans are problematic? The
| studies I know are typically in favor of these kinds of
| food. Bean consumption is typically a good predictor for
| survival in elderly people. Is this some kind of carb-
| phobia?
| flexblue wrote:
| In the context of T2 diabetes, white rice is a high GI
| food. Brown rice, legumes and grains contain plant toxins
| and antinutrients which are poorly researched, but at
| least anecdotally can cause all kinds of issues
| especially in sensitive people.
|
| Also, in the west, a lot of the culture of preparing
| these foods (such as fermenting or vigorous soaking) is
| bypassed.
|
| > Bean consumption is typically a good predictor for
| survival in elderly people.
|
| That data suffers from the usual issues related to
| nutritional studies. Consuming beans in place of donuts
| may be a good predictor of health, that doesn't mean that
| beans themselves are healthy relative to other healthy
| foods.
| pengaru wrote:
| > When you can buy twinkies and pork chops you're not
| actually poor. When you are really poor you eat rice and
| beans and some vegetables you grow for yourself. And then
| you don't have diabetes typically.
|
| The EBT program here in the US completely distorts the
| situation.
|
| My local grocery store serves a very poor community, most
| of the customers pay with EBT. I get to see what kind of
| things these folks buy, it's idiotic. We could do a lot
| of good if EBT were only applicable to fresh perishable
| goods like produce/eggs/milk/fish/meat.
|
| It almost seems like people on EBT hate themselves for
| being poor and lean in on being self-destructive while at
| the store paying for things with EBT. They largely buy
| processed/prepared junk food, it's unbelievable, but if
| you view the food they buy as another drug prodding the
| reward centers of their brains, it's making them feel
| good in the short-term while giving them diabetes and
| other ailments in the long-term. EBT enables affording it
| by being almost equivalent to cash.
| bitwize wrote:
| There was an "...In Mice" meme about this very topic that was
| even featured here on Hackernews.
| Kwastie wrote:
| Am I assuming correctly that this only applies for type 1
| diabetes?
|
| With type 2 diabetes the body is in general less sensitive to
| insulin, more insulin producing cells won't fix the underlying
| insensitivity issue, right?
| whb07 wrote:
| Isn't type 2 somewhat reversible by cleaning up diet and a
| prolonged fast?
| chx wrote:
| Not sure about a prolonged fast but I had my HbA1c levels at
| 6.8 (very much diabetic) once and by dropping sugar, white
| flour, white rice and potatoes and generally eating less
| (fasting is bad as far as I understand) every check I had
| since has been 5.3 (very much non-diabetic).
| flexblue wrote:
| What's wrong with (intermittent) fasting? Of course if you
| don't raise your blood sugar as much by changing the diet,
| your HbA1c goes down by definition.
|
| However, limiting your feeding window will naturally reduce
| the amount of time you spend with elevated blood sugar,
| without any calorie reduction. Again, that'll lower your
| HbA1c by definition.
|
| Calorie reduction on the other hand can slow down
| metabolism and cause a yoyo-effect[1].
|
| The real issue is insulin resistance. Even if your blood
| sugar is "normal", it may take more insulin to achieve
| those levels. Elevated insulin levels are harmful by
| themselves. Also, if you go back to your old diet, you will
| still be insulin resistant.
|
| Intermittent fasting can reduce visceral fat particularly
| in the liver and improve insulin sensitivity[2].
|
| [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5639963/
|
| [2] https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/intermittent-
| fasting-sur...
| nate_meurer wrote:
| High blood sugar is toxic to pancreatic beta cells. Thus,
| poorly controlled type 2 diabetes typically progress to some
| degree of insulin-dependent diabetes. That condition is the
| worst of both worlds; your insulin levels are insufficient, but
| even supplementing insulin artificially can't bring your blood
| sugar under control without significant lifestyle changes.
|
| Note that beta cells are hardly unique in this regard. High
| blood sugar is toxic to all tissues, but the affects on some
| tissues are especially problematic, examples being retinas,
| kidneys, endothelium, and peripheral nerves.
| RHSeeger wrote:
| The reverse tends to also be true. After being a Type 1
| diabetic for a good while, it's not uncommon to also start
| showing signs of insulin resistance (type 2).
| Ovah wrote:
| T2D patients also have a reduced amount of insuline-producing
| beta cells. At diagnosis, there's been a 50% destruction of
| insuline-producing beta-cells. The destruction progresses with
| the disease.
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