[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Starting over after business failure
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Ask HN: Starting over after business failure
I'm a little burnt out after my business failed after 4 years of
hard graft. I'm looking for a new online opportunity but feel as if
I've run out of ideas, problems and general creativity. I'm not
sure how to start again. Any advice?
Author : throes_death
Score : 80 points
Date : 2020-03-16 05:28 UTC (17 hours ago)
| mikesabat wrote:
| I took a job in the same space as my startup. My startup was
| bootstrapped, so having built a product and learned the market
| was interesting experience to my new employer. The work in the
| job seems much easier once you've been grinding for the same
| problem on your own. I've continued to deepen my network.
|
| You can still solve the problem you were trying to solve with the
| startup, although you'll be doing it at a company. Maybe
| approaching it from a different angle will shed new value on your
| ideas and creativity, and you won't feel as depleted.
| Ididntdothis wrote:
| It depends on your financial situation. If you can afford it,
| take some time off and forget about the whole thing. If you need
| money, I would either get a steady job or a contracting position
| to reestablish a stable financial situation. It's hard to think
| straight while being broke.
| ryanmarsh wrote:
| _It's hard to think straight while being broke._
|
| I feel this is the mental state (whether objectively broke or
| otherwise) of most employees, which hinders them from starting
| that business they always wanted to start, or starting
| contracting/freelance. It's a poison as far as I can tell.
| Truly some of the most capable people I know cannot by pried
| loose from the toxic work environments and low pay they are
| stuck in because sick systems disrupt our ability to reason
| well.
| throes_death wrote:
| Thanks. I do need to forget about things but I also feel I need
| to feel as if I've earnt a paycheck. Does that make sense? I
| have not "won any bread" for the last 4 years and even some
| casual hours doing unskilled labor, I think, might make me feel
| energized.
| throwaway68102 wrote:
| I've been through a handful of ventures in the past few years
| with ultimately no lasting success. Some made money in certain
| periods, but ultimately they failed, with the thousands of hours
| and many thousands of dollars invested in these ventures now
| "down the drain".
|
| The only thing we can keep doing is pushing forward. Failure must
| be seen as a learning opportunity, not a failure of intellect or
| similar.
|
| With that said, if you are experiencing emotional side-effects,
| which are completely normal from my POV (I've certainly had
| them), I urge you to consider your mental health, nonetheless
| your overall health. Success and money do not mean a thing if you
| cannot get out of your bed or house every day, or if you've
| frayed all relationships (whether familial, friendships, etc.)
| while working as hard as we're told to as entrepreneurs.
| bramkrom wrote:
| Some people have given solid advice here on financial
| restrictions, so will focus on the 'fire for building' part.
|
| Recently listened to a podcast of Tim Ferris, where he
| interviewed Tony Fadell - who built the iPod, iPhone and Nest. In
| it, he makes a serious case for getting bored. He explains how he
| uses it to drive new ideas, such as how it helped him get the
| clarity of mind to get the idea of Nest, and how afterwards he's
| done the research for his current problem - one of plastics.
|
| "Get the time to get bored. Spend three, six months if you can,
| or at least two or three weeks outside of that. Get bored. Just
| put away all of your things. Maybe go clean up the garage or
| whatever it is. Right? Through that, you're going to start to
| think differently. You're going to act slightly differently and
| your mind might open up to other sources of inspiration, other
| problems, other things where you start to go, "Oh, now I see
| differently." I'm not just going to go run to the competitor
| because I understand the space and run to the competitor and go
| work for them because they're going to give me a better job. But
| I want to go do a whole different thing that I want to learn
| about that's going to challenge me so I'm not just checking in
| every day and doing my work, but I'm actually growing through
| that."
|
| Listen to it here: https://tim.blog/2019/12/23/tony-fadell/
| pgt wrote:
| An important aspect of fostering boredom is avoiding
| gratification like Netflix or Twitter (which I am hugely guilty
| of).
| metal13 wrote:
| Underrated comment. Those things are great, but when your
| minds' entertainment comes from outside, you never rebuild
| the creative muscle.
| endymi0n wrote:
| Playing a game or watching a movie feels good -- but at the
| same time, you're living someone elses' dreams. All this
| dopamine, all this adrenaline will feel so good and make
| you tired just enough to conveniently forget about your
| own.
| throes_death wrote:
| Thank you. I think just spending a few weeks doing some
| maintenance jobs around the house and yard is what I need.
| throwawayfail wrote:
| Serial fail-er here.
|
| Start consulting with companies that have made it a little
| further down the road and learn from them.
|
| Remember that not everyone has solved the same set of problems.
|
| Find companies that have problems that you already solved with
| your business, and help that company by applying what you've
| learned.
|
| They'll benefit from your experience and fresh approach, and
| you'll see what you can do with a different set of tools (more
| capital, better product, better team, etc.)
|
| After working with a few companies for a few quarters, you might
| have a fresh outlook on whether to solve a new problem or join an
| established company.
| Gonzih wrote:
| Take a break, take care of yourself. Be careful with energy
| levels and then you will know when is the right time and what you
| want to do.
| flyinglizard wrote:
| Don't jump into startups right away. Find a company to work for,
| preferably one which is interesting and positive (not just any
| stable BigCo but not someone else's 4 people startup either). Do
| that without imposing any time limit - when you're mentally
| ready, the startup bug will bite. That time you'll be better all
| around.
| vpEfljFL wrote:
| Let new ventures find you instead.
|
| Take some time to refresh your mind. After grinding your idea for
| four years you most likely lost some experience in other fields.
|
| Have fun, read fiction books. When you'll find a new idea, you
| most likely neglect this parts of the life again for several
| yers. Good luck!
| legitster wrote:
| Work a job as normal and boring as you can find. Boring is,
| boring. But boredom is a good way to build up energy for a future
| run at a startup.
|
| Also, one thing you lose working in a startup for a long period
| of time is perspective on what "normal" problems are. Which is
| why so many startups look like they only target other startups.
| The best ideas come from working in an industry long enough to
| understand the specifics about a problem, how to solve it, and
| who would buy it.
| endymi0n wrote:
| Big +1 here from my side, and here's a bit of scientific
| background: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hide-and-
| seek/201407...
|
| Some of my anecdotal evidence: Left an exploded and then
| imploded startup (where I was one of the first employees),
| completely burned out and was approached by a guy for a
| startup.
|
| Sounded good, but my creative energy was gone and my wife told
| me to go to hell if I wanted to start a company with a newborn
| on the way.
|
| Went to a super boring corporate job instead that had three big
| benefits:
|
| 1) Nice and cushy 9 to 5 with great money to lick my wounds
|
| 2) As OP said: Energy came back and I realigned with normal
| people and normal problems
|
| 3) I left after 11 months with a nice bore-out and so many
| great examples of what not to do in a company that it had my
| fire lighted and ready to go.
|
| Turned out the guy who wanted me for the startup had waited for
| me and together we built the largest streaming search engine
| worldwide over the past 5 years.
|
| That in turn was a serious roller coaster ride with its own
| story again, but that wasn't your question, right? :)
| [deleted]
| ad31mar wrote:
| Partner up with somebody :)
| alex_c wrote:
| I've been there. It was incredibly stressful and tiring,
| especially towards the end. I could not focus on anything for
| weeks after, let alone think about starting something new.
|
| Give yourself some time. Eat, sleep, work out, live - chances are
| you might not have done much of that lately. I would suggest
| travel, but maybe not right now :)
|
| Look after yourself first, allow yourself to be bored again, the
| creativity and the itch will come back. But you can't force it if
| you're running on empty.
| throw03172019 wrote:
| I wish I took some time off in between startups. I'd suggest
| taking some time off to clear your mind and rejuvenate. If you
| have the ability, traveling can help (although this is tough now
| with the virus outbreak).
| kweks wrote:
| Definitely this. I have lived through two (one major) restarts.
|
| Be gentle to yourself. You probably will need longer to
| recovery emotionally than financially.
|
| Let the process take its time. If you're unsteady emotionally
| or under pressure (need to make a business to regain income) it
| is very difficult to make pragmatic decisions.
|
| Good luck.
| throes_death wrote:
| Thanks! I might take this advice. I can certainly spend a week
| or two doing general maintenance in the yard and around the
| house.
| tlb wrote:
| Agreed. Many years ago I left a job that had ground me down and
| started the next thing immediately, which went better. But 3-4
| years into it, I realized I hadn't had a proper rest in several
| years.
|
| Whatever your next thing is, you should start it with fresh
| energy.
| jbob2000 wrote:
| Go work for a big company. The work is slower and you can take a
| break.
|
| Big companies also mean big opportunities. And you don't get to
| see what these opportunities are unless you're on the inside. You
| will find some inspiration there for a great B2B company and you
| can leverage the connections you make there to make it happen.
| itake wrote:
| All the big companies are freezing hiring. This doesn't seem
| like practical advice.
| legitster wrote:
| But running your own business is a surefire way to get to the
| top of an applicant list.
| mndg wrote:
| Have you failed at a startup & business and experienced
| recruiting as a business owner/founder / have you had skin
| in the game here?
|
| Having failed 4Q19 at my startup, and tried finding work
| elsewhere, employers have rejected me left and right.
|
| I'm no longer positioning myself as a founder/business
| owner, instead choosing a more traditional function, and
| deleting any reference to me being a founder / having done
| practically every single function.
|
| Research out of U Oregon confirms my experience.
| https://business.uoregon.edu/news/job-prospects-former-
| start...
| todaysAI wrote:
| YMMV. Some companies will not hire people that they feel
| are too entrepreneurial. Sitting in a cubicle and being
| happy is a much different mindset for someone who has run
| their own business before.
| jbob2000 wrote:
| Starting a business right now probably isn't a good idea
| either, so if that's the position you want to take, then
| there's no practical advice right now.
| mrpickels wrote:
| big companies are for simps, real men are independent.
| ctas wrote:
| I've been there. If you want to chat (and maybe even work on
| something together), mail me.
| startupnthrow wrote:
| What you are experiencing is absolutely normal. You worked on the
| best idea and you worked it hard. You even delivered revenue from
| customers and maybe you successfully raised some investor money.
| However, 4 years later, you're the end of the road. You are
| hungry for a new idea because you have built up a unique set of
| entrepreneurial skills that you want to keep using. You're a
| professional high-energy operator who builds and executes.
| However, you don't have anything as good as the last business
| because starting is hard. You know that a startup requires
| commitment and conviction. However, to get that fire again, for a
| new business, is a drag. Your startup left you out of commitment
| and conviction for your industry and with even less fight in your
| spirit for another run.
|
| My advice: Go back to the scene of the crime and open up an
| investigation while the trail is still warm and you have some
| consulting gig to keep cash in your pocket.
|
| Your startup worked for 4 years. I would recommend you go back to
| your industry and meditate on why you were convicted and why you
| were committed. Why did you succeed? What did you do better than
| the competition? Why did you stop succeeding? What about your
| customers you really loved? Which customers did you really hate?
| What was the magic of the business that others couldn't repeat as
| easily as you. In those answers may possibly lie the new startup
| that you want to launch that will CRUSH the COMPETITION. In a
| careful poring of the 4 years are the seeds for a new and
| possibly even more successful company. Take your time because
| looking at the failure will be painful.
| throes_death wrote:
| Thanks. TBH I think the niche was to small, the problem was too
| hard, the solution was too complex, the audience was too hard
| to connect with.
|
| The niche can be served but I'm not sure it can be served and
| make a living from it. There are other competitors (without our
| USPs) but they're backed by universities so it's not clear if
| they're "stand alone" viable either. Thanks for your advice!
| optemization wrote:
| I failed a business after nearly three years. I thought that it
| was a great idea and invested $50,000 of my father's money. I got
| lucky in many ways because I started it in college and didn't
| have rent or family matters on the line. That said, closing it
| down really sucked. I feel like there are still some loose
| threads between myself and teammates -- we never closed the loop
| on some things, so make sure you do that. Otherwise, it will
| bother you for a long time.
|
| To bounce back, I focused on the opportunities that this
| experience has instead brought me. I realized that I got deeply
| involved with the entrepreneurship community on campus. I
| channeled all my energy to help others start companies and avoid
| the mistakes that I have done. This, in turn, led to more work
| opportunities at accelerators and organizations that support
| startups.
|
| After working for about a year I gained new perspectives and
| experiences which pointed me to a new idea that I am currently
| pursuing. The "circle of startup" if you will :)
|
| One of the best frameworks that starting my first company helped
| me develop is finding "problem/solution fit". Of course, that
| depends on your past business and experience. Personally, I
| became more sensitive to noticing problems and realizing that I
| could solve them with technology.
| noads wrote:
| I'd start by reevaluating your belief that anyone who went to
| public school is a moron and that anyone who went to private
| school has a huge edge over them.
|
| Do you see any connection between your failed business and your
| myopic world view?
| predictmktegirl wrote:
| After I exited my last business, it took me 3 years to finally
| get up to feeling ready again. I also went to a dark place for a
| while. My best advice is to keep your head up and think more
| about the present than the future, at least for a little while.
| Keep yourself busy and avoid things that feel too cumbersome or
| dreadful. Exercise and treat your body well.
|
| In between battling depression and anxiety over the years, I
| started doodling things again. Those doodles turned into thought
| experiments, into reading research papers, into connecting into a
| new field. I'm feeling more energized these days about starting
| something new, and more excited about working on a startup again.
|
| I wish there was some way I could have avoided falling into the
| emotional abyss and spending so many years there. Maybe I should
| have focused on building more friendships over the years instead
| of being a loner. You really start to take for granted such
| things until the isolation of failure sinks in. Hopefully this
| time I will find a co-founder willing to go to felt with me. I'm
| not sure I can endure another solo fail.
| throes_death wrote:
| Thank you. I felt a little dark when I knew things were going
| to end badly, but surprisingly I don't feel bad now that things
| are over. I feel slightly excited and interested in what the
| next opportunity might be, but as I said originally, I feel
| creatively burnt out and don't seem to have the critical
| analysis needed right now to figure out what to do next.
|
| I hope things are working out for you now (mental health wise).
|
| Thanks!
| toyg wrote:
| I've just pulled the plug on my business, and now I'm moving
| sideways - back to regular employment but in a role that's pretty
| different from what I've done for the last 15 years. Hopefully
| that will recharge my batteries, and then in a couple of years I
| might be ready to try again.
| canvasduck wrote:
| I took a job at a small startup for a year. It was healthy for a
| number of reasons -stable pay, rebuild savings -catching up on
| new tech I had missed while being heads down -larger teams, more
| socialization I had missed -time and space to decompress and
| process what I have learned
| PouyaL wrote:
| Agreed. Had the same experience after getting dropped from my
| own company by the board politically, although the business was
| booming. Though tried to join few corporate as a entrepreneur
| in house, but didn't work out. Its better to recover with small
| group of folks rather than big ones. It bring back the
| morality.
| xwdv wrote:
| Just work a regular full time job for a while. No shame in it.
| And if you absolutely can't get past the idea of being employed
| for a steady paycheck, then just think of it as a way to raise
| cash for your next venture when you get a good idea.
| contingencies wrote:
| _A penny saved is a penny earned._
|
| Instead of focusing on making more money, focus on spending less.
| This reduces pressure, increases health and time to think and be
| creative. In my adult life I have spent years in low expense
| scenarios learning and creating. Forget the herd, do what you
| want to do. Move to a cheap place (avoid anywhere with a 'digital
| nomad' community) and go swimming, surfing, rock-climbing or
| cycling every day. Even if you have zero savings one remote gig
| or an occasional bout of local work will keep you going.
| [deleted]
| throes_death wrote:
| Thanks, but not really practical for us (2 kids in school and
| partner with great career and tenure).
|
| We do live frugally however which is how I was able to start
| the business in the first place. We traveled a lot when we were
| younger but now we live what many would probably call a
| "boring" life. We're anti-consumerist, minimalists I suppose
| and we're happy with that ;-)
| nudpiedo wrote:
| Can you elaborate more the "avoid anywhere with a 'digital
| nomad' community"? Isn't that supposed to be a positive network
| or alike people/entrepreneurs? How do you keep your
| networking/customers/support network in an isolated cheap area?
| contingencies wrote:
| I often build something that takes time _before_ taking
| customers. Doing this in an isolated location keeps costs
| down, assists focus and allows free intellectual exploration
| without outside influence.
| throes_death wrote:
| Wow, I've just woken up to a bunch of new comments. Thanks
| everyone!
| throwaway875u58 wrote:
| This was me a few years ago. My end goal was to build up savings
| in the 3-5 year time frame.
|
| My off-ramp was to:
|
| 1) Take on consulting clients
|
| This allowed for a shift in day to day/finding an alternate
| source of income asap. Depending on opportunities available, you
| might want to skip this step.
|
| 2) Identify interesting startups in the area + get a software dev
| job.
|
| This allowed me to hone up my rustier coding skills and make good
| money without needing to worry about clients/big picture
| deliverables.
|
| 3) After 1 year, move to FANG.
|
| I needed a year to get back into the IC mindset and skillset at a
| level where I could be hired as a senior/principle level at FANG.
| rhlsthrm wrote:
| What's the best way to get consulting clients? I want to start
| building a pipeline now in case I end up in a similar
| situation.
| throwaway875u58 wrote:
| What worked for me was through word of mouth/utilizing the
| relationships I'd built up while trying to build a business.
| optemization wrote:
| I just started actively consulting two months ago. So far, 8
| projects and five clients.
|
| Before doing this, I built a pretty strong startup network in
| New York City. Through starting a company and running an
| entrepreneurship club at New York Univesity, I got to know a
| lot of relevant people on the scene. entrepreneurs, investors
| and community builders. Once I was sharing with people that I
| was working on. I got introductions to potential clients. My
| biggest client right now is a person whom I knew from the
| first year at the University.
|
| If you are good at hosting events or bringing up ir target
| audience together, I would suggest looking into that.
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