[HN Gopher] A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume
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A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume
Author : jseliger
Score : 92 points
Date : 2020-04-06 21:34 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
| neonate wrote:
| https://archive.md/tXRs6
| Paul-ish wrote:
| > The International Institute for Conflict Prevention &
| Resolution, or C.P.R., was willing to allow DoorDash to arbitrate
| "test cases" and avoid having to pay the fees all at once. C.P.R.
| also took feedback from Gibson Dunn on the proposed new rules,
| though it did not consult with the dashers' lawyers.
|
| DoorDash gets to try a few cases with this company to see if they
| like the results. That couldn't possibly create a conflict of
| interest.
| function_seven wrote:
| The article mentions 6,000 arbitration cases against DoorDash
| amounted to $9 million in fees from the American Arbitration
| Association. That's $1,500 a pop!
|
| If you have a dispute with a company, and are bound by an
| arbitration clause, it seems like you have a $1,500 hammer to hit
| them with? (Assuming your agreement states that the company will
| front the fees).
|
| What happens if the arbitrator decides the case against you? Do
| you owe that fee? Does this vary from one contract to another?
| crazygringo wrote:
| This seems like fantastic news -- if class action suits aren't
| allowed, then technology now makes it easier to file "cookie
| cutter" arbitration suits at such low cost that it effectively
| acts like a small class-action suit anyways.
|
| But I'm worried companies will be able to respond in a way that
| neutralizes it -- tweaking arbitration terms somehow. I hope not,
| though. It is absolutely necessary that we hold companies
| accountable for mass bad behavior, no matter if it's with their
| customers or employees.
| g_p wrote:
| In cases where the arbitration clause is already in place, and
| the arbitrations have been filed, that would likely be
| difficult to do, as a result of the Alsup ruling.
|
| Where the arbitrations haven't begun yet, there's certainly
| some scope for attempting to neutralize this, by changing
| provider or terms. Interestingly, there's a potential conflict-
| of-interest brewing [1] around whether DoorDash's lawyers were
| so tightly involved in the writing of the CPR's rules, that the
| CPR sought their approval before publishing them [2]...
|
| If that is the case, things could start to get quite
| interesting indeed, particularly for CPR, who are not looking
| in a particularly good light after discovery in the case.
|
| > The documents in the case were unsealed on Wednesday,
| revealing that the defendants were so involved in the protocol
| that CPR would not publish it until DoorDash and its lawyers
| gave the go ahead, including a sign off on the fee structure by
| DoorDash's head of litigation, Gregg Farano. In his written
| approval of the Protocol in an Oct. 31 email to Waxman, Farano
| asked that CPR let him know when the new rules were published
| "so that we may link to it in our terms and conditions."
|
| Alsup certainly seems to think there's something worth the
| public knowing about here [3]:
|
| > Judge Alsup also said the public deserves to see the CPR
| emails, since the material "would be useful to the public in
| evaluating the true extent to which (CPR) is impartial."
|
| [1] https://www.law.com/therecorder/2019/12/20/gibson-dunn-
| doord...
|
| [2] https://prospect.org/labor/doordash-company-arbitration-
| stor...
|
| [3] https://www.reuters.com/article/legal-us-otc-mass-arbi-
| lawsu...
| mandelken wrote:
| As a European, reading these articles on arbitration, no-compete,
| required licenses, 'right-to-work', tipping, "gig work", firing
| over zoom, and so much more, it seems U.S. workers could really
| use some collective bargaining? Here unions are the obvious
| century-old solution to improve working conditions, why don't
| workers organize there? Are we just lucky here, like with
| universal health care?
| gumby wrote:
| Unions have suffered from a bad reputation in the United States
| over the past few decades.
|
| Some of it is deserved BTW; some big unions were/are corrupted
| and some were connected with organized crime. Even more
| innocently, unions have been quite conservative; as jobs and
| technology changed some were very resistant and fought
| modernization (requiring people who were not needed to be
| around). But a lot of it also stems from corporate resistance
| to unionization and the high regard in which ordinary people
| hold the opinions of corporate managers in the USA.
|
| All that being said, unions have been very good for labor, and
| when I've worked in union shops (not in a unionized role)
| they've been really great in terms of qualified people and high
| quality work. I built my house using union labor and I'm glad I
| did.
|
| Europe is not immune to these diseases by the way. Certain
| French unions certainly negotiate against the greater interests
| of society. And in Germany my non-unionized brother in law (a
| mechanical engineer) was not allowed to work late at VW -- he
| was trying to finish a project one evening and a union guy came
| by and cut his PC's power cable while he was designing a part.
| saagarjha wrote:
| Many people don't like unions, and most companies heavily
| discourage their employees from joining one.
| hcknwscommenter wrote:
| In particular, many working class people who would benefit
| from strong unions are opposed to unions, or even if they are
| not opposed do not consider how their voting patterns/choices
| affect union viability.
| Gatsky wrote:
| Yes exactly. Perhaps the pandemic will change this, but
| probably not.
| Mirioron wrote:
| > _Are we just lucky here, like with universal health care?_
|
| You don't hear as much about European problems online, because
| they're spoken about in the respective nation's language. This
| means that it's hard to compare. Most European countries also
| have many problems like the US. Maybe not to quite the same
| extreme, but they do exist. The US does have a few things going
| for it though: very strong protections of speech, very high
| wages, a system of incredible services - things like Amazon,
| FedEx etc. From my perspective, things in the US actually seem
| better than in Europe for the long-term. They just have a few
| very obvious pain points like healthcare and the silliness of a
| lack of worker protections in some states.
|
| Just keep in mind that unions aren't universal across Europe or
| even the EU. They usually exist, but they tend to not have much
| leverage.
| DannyB2 wrote:
| > But a federal judge in San Francisco wasn't willing to go along
| with it. The judge, William Alsup, ordered DoorDash in February
| to proceed with the American Arbitration Association cases and
| pay the fees.
|
| Ah! Gotta love judge Alsup. Back in SCO vs Novell, and in Oracle
| vs Google.
|
| > ... in a hearing, Judge Alsup questioned whether the company
| and its lawyers really believed that.
|
| > "Your law firm and all the defense law firms have tried for 30
| years to keep plaintiffs out of court," the judge told lawyers
| for Gibson Dunn late last year. "And so finally someone says,
| 'OK, we'll take you to arbitration,' and suddenly it's not in
| your interest anymore. Now you're wiggling around, trying to find
| some way to squirm out of your agreement."
|
| > "There is a lot of poetic justice here," the judge added.
| dllthomas wrote:
| What was his involvement in SCO vs Novell? He doesn't seem to
| be mentioned in
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO_Group,_Inc._v._Novell,_Inc.
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