[HN Gopher] Foxconn's buildings in Wisconsin are still empty, on...
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Foxconn's buildings in Wisconsin are still empty, one year later
Author : techslave
Score : 115 points
Date : 2020-04-12 20:14 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
| supernova87a wrote:
| There's an NPR special (I will try to recall a link) on how the
| local town / county government was willingly duped into being the
| gullible country folk who would agree to give Foxconn such huge
| subsidies for the promise of jobs. And how some more cautious
| citizens really fought against the secrecy being applied to the
| whole deal by the town council.
|
| Sometimes you have to have the self-awareness to ask yourself,
| here I am, a country simple elected official, who's being
| presented with a huge fantasy of a deal, and being asked to keep
| this secret from the press and constituents.
|
| Is it likely that I'm such a good negotiator and master of
| finances and state incentives and my town is so special, that the
| huge company I'm dealing with is asking me to keep it secret
| because they're afraid of how they're getting screwed? Or maybe
| the other way around?
|
| Those town council members and mayor got taken for the ride of
| their lives by their gullibility and desire for national
| politicians to chalk up a headline, which of course, never
| materialized.
|
| Edit: oh, I see someone has just posted the Reply- all podcast
| link to that story, thanks!
| johnohara wrote:
| Aside from the politics, which really can't be left aside, I was
| under the impression the principal reason Mt. Pleasant was
| selected was due to its unfettered access to fresh water in the
| form of Lake Michigan. And also it's proximity to The Brat Stop
| on I-94.
|
| Not necessarily in that order.
| asdff wrote:
| The verge can go ahead and write next years article about this,
| because at this rate, these will probably remain on the back
| burner.
| cobookman wrote:
| It's events like these that make me believe a large government
| will always become corrupt.
|
| with smaller governments, ppl will focus their corruption on more
| lucrative organizations.
|
| And hopefully free market capitalism in such a system would be a
| check on the corruption.
| polote wrote:
| I don't understand the point of the article, they are just saying
| that the building is empty and they are lying about it right ?
| But why should anyone cares ?
| rsynnott wrote:
| Vast state aid to a private company resulting in essentially
| nothing feels like a bit of a scandal...
| macintux wrote:
| For the same reason it's worth writing articles about how
| taxpayers subsidizing sports stadiums is (almost?) never worth
| the ROI from a strictly financial standpoint: because people
| keeping fall for it, so it's useful to be able to have a body
| of evidence for the next time in hopes they won't fall for it
| again.
| frankbreetz wrote:
| >>As part of the agreement, Foxconn was set to receive
| subsidies ranging from $3 billion to $4.8 billion (paid in
| increments if Foxconn met certain targets), which would be by
| far the largest subsidy ever given to a foreign firm in U.S.
| history.
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn%27s_Wisconsin_plant
|
| Why should Americans cares how there tax dollars are spent,
| right?
| champagneben wrote:
| >if Foxconn met certain targets
|
| Have they been met? Has it been a net negative from the
| taxpayers' standpoint?
| mburns wrote:
| https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/09/foxconn-says-it-met-
| hiring-t...
| kgermino wrote:
| There are two issues:
|
| 1. Foxconn claims that the targets have been met, but the
| empty buildings obviously make some petiole suspicious.
|
| 2. There was also a lot of subsidies and government
| spending based on the deal that is not tied to the targets.
| This was mostly at the local level (which __really__ can
| not afford it without the project going as expected) but
| the state had some too
| briffle wrote:
| Not every tax credit had the targets set. The environmental
| laws changed for the site are vague enough that anything
| they decide to do there is okay, and many people lost their
| homes due to condemnation to clear the land, and roads for
| the plant. (Plus all the money already spent to upgrade
| roads, freeway off-ramps, power, and utilities in a very
| rural area.
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| This is good reporting. I think it's pretty obvious the sole (ok,
| maybe not sole, but certainly 90%+ purpose) of these "innovation
| centers" was political show, on both Foxconn's and the US
| politicians' side.
| 0n0n0m0uz wrote:
| A lot of wasted time to write an in depth article. Let me make it
| easier. Like just about everything having to do with Trump, It's
| a scam.
| dpau wrote:
| Not surprising. A great episode about this issue is on Reply All,
| worth listening to even now:
|
| #132 Negative Mount Pleasant DECEMBER 6, 2018 A small town in
| Wisconsin becomes the site of a completely unprecedented
| experiment. https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/wbhjwd
| supernova87a wrote:
| Thanks for that link! Yes, I just commented elsewhere that the
| story of this town council is mind blowingly stupid.
|
| Sometimes you have to have the self-awareness to ask yourself,
| here I am, a country simple elected official, who's being
| presented with a huge fantasy of a deal, and being asked to
| keep this secret from the press and constituents.
|
| Is it likely that I'm such a good negotiator and master of
| finances and state incentives and my town is so special, that
| the huge company I'm dealing with is asking me to keep it
| secret because they're afraid of how they're getting screwed?
| Or maybe the other way around?
|
| Those town council members and mayor got taken for the ride of
| their lives by their gullibility and desire for national
| politicians to chalk up a headline, which of course, never
| materialized.
| sschueller wrote:
| Thank you for posting this.
|
| It is unbelievable how dumb and corrupt some local governments
| are. Especially disturbing how heartless these people can be to
| their own town folk.
|
| This is like some 3rd world country local government kind of
| banana republic. Unbelievable.
| wyxuan wrote:
| I was so angry listening to all those delusional council
| members who thought that suddenly their town could be silicon
| valley. Nothing wrong with thinking big, but to reasonably
| believe that you could start many multi billion dollar tech
| companies just with one plant is just loony.
|
| It left me at the end of the episode thinking, foxconn came in
| like a fox and conned everyone involved.
| cosmodisk wrote:
| There's a very good Russian film called The Twelve Chairs- an
| adaptation of a book with the same title.There,the main
| character, a professional con artist,ends up in a small town,
| in a middle of nowhere. In a matter of days,he convinces the
| entire town that because of chess games some of the residents
| often play,they could turn the town into the world capital of
| chess.They will host international tournaments,
| conferences,and etc.The Soviet government will build a rail
| link directly to Moscow and it will ultimately become a super
| city in no time. The film is 50 years old,but looks like the
| today's world hasn't changed that much...
| js2 wrote:
| I only know the Mel Brooks version:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Chairs_(1970_film)
|
| But reading the wikipedia description of the book, it's the
| same premise: characters attempting to obtain jewelry
| hidden in a chair.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Chairs
|
| Are you thinking of a different story?
|
| Edit: ah, apparently that's a part of the novel, which if
| it's in the Mel Brooks film, I don't recall: "bamboozling a
| village chess club with promises of an international
| tournament."
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Is this the inspiration for the Simpson's monorail episode?
| __david__ wrote:
| No, that was the very popular musical, The Music Man,
| which is a very similar story.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Thank you!
| notRobot wrote:
| Truly a great episode. Definitely recommended by me too.
| nikkwong wrote:
| Wow. This story was mind blowing. I don't understand how a
| small town can borrow against a state's future tax earnings?
| Why are Wisconsin's taxpayers on the hook for the stupid
| mistakes of these council members? Also the story doesn't make
| this clear. How are the incentive payments made to Foxconn? I'm
| certain that it's not just a direct transfer of tax dollars
| from the city/state to Foxconn (?).
| rdxm wrote:
| The title _should_ be: "Foxconn Runs Grift on Wisco GOP, Owns
| Them Like a Boss"...
|
| #justsayin....
| frankbreetz wrote:
| I always thought it was weird that Wisconsin was a swing state.
| They seem like they would always be red, tons or manufacturing
| and farms, not a lot of big cities. But, it seems like Wisconsin
| Republicans are always making the national news for corruption,
| the Foxconn plant, allowing a vote in the middle of a pandemic
| for a minor Republican gain, and when Scott Walker lost his
| governor seat he removed a lot of power from the governor so, the
| Democrat coming in couldn't do as much. I know there are good and
| bad people on both sides, but Wisconsin Republicans have some
| work to do.
| analog31 wrote:
| Wisconsin is a swing state for votes that can't be
| gerrymandered, i.e., the governor, US senate, and president.
| It's strongly republican for the two houses of the legislature
| and the state supreme court.
| randyrand wrote:
| Was foxconn given tax breaks only? Or did they also spend
| significant tax dollars?
|
| Its always odd to me when subsidies are advertised as a cost,
| i.e. lost tax revenue. That would mean not having Foxconn come to
| Wisconsin at all is also a cost, i.e. lost tax revenue. And that
| Foxconn also cost adjacent states a ton by not moving to them
| either. That seems odd to phrase it that way. Subsidies are not a
| cost.
|
| When I buy something at Target for 50% off, did I just cost them
| money? Doubtful. They're still making money. And its in
| Wisconsin's interest to make some money, rather than nothing.
| [deleted]
| uxp100 wrote:
| Significant tax dollars were spent by local municipalities. But
| that money was for infrastructure, not paid to the company or
| something. Mainly Mount Pleasant. In the state, it is popular
| to think of foxconn as scammers, but I don't think they have
| managed to get nearly as much as they could have, so uh, I have
| no idea what is going on.
|
| Foxconn does employee software folks at the milwaukee
| "innovation center." Doing what, not sure.
| mburns wrote:
| No & yes, respectively.
|
| > In 2018, the Walker administration shifted up to $90 million
| in local road funding to road work related to the Foxconn
| factory.
| randyrand wrote:
| Thats a good data point. So it cost the state at least $90
| million.
|
| I'm much more in favor of using these types of data points to
| determine cost, rather than the subsidy "cost".
| RantyDave wrote:
| "Foxconn has announced a giant glass dome that will house a data
| center"
|
| I'm hard pressed to think of a worse place to put a data centre
| than under a glass dome. The moon, perhaps?
| Ghjklov wrote:
| Yeah the moon would be terrible. Data literally just floats off
| into the void under zero gravity.
| thawaway1837 wrote:
| The moon isn't 0 gravity.
| slyall wrote:
| Okay "Freefall"
| Taek wrote:
| The moon would be very bad. No atmosphere = no heat
| dissipation.
|
| For thermal reasons alone, computing is a massive challenge in
| space.
| ccmcarey wrote:
| you have a planet you could vent heat into?
| rsynnott wrote:
| Venting heat _into the ground_ is not even remotely an
| efficient process, unless you have no other option.
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