[HN Gopher] How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master
___________________________________________________________________
How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master
Author : emptybits
Score : 278 points
Date : 2020-04-23 18:12 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
| salimmadjd wrote:
| Like many, I've been learning new recipes recently and that
| includes pizza -
|
| I've been using this dough recipe (it has wholewheat in it) [0]
| and been really liking the flavor of the dough. I've also moved
| to slow rise, the dough flavor seems more complex (or it could be
| psychosomatic). I leave it in the fridge for 2 days or 3 days,
| depending on how quickly we go through one batch.
|
| But for cooking, I'm following this method (which is similar to
| what suggested in the OP). Basically to cook the pizza with
| tomato sauce first and then add the cheese [1] (PSA - this guy
| has such fun personality, be prepared to watch hours of his pizza
| videos)
|
| I've also bought canned peel san marzano tomatoes (from both
| Whole Foods and TJs) and just used an impression blender to puree
| it with some basil.
|
| I watched an interview with the owner of Lucali in NY [2] and he
| said he cooks his tomato sauce. So I've been cooking my tomato
| puree simmering it for 30-40 min. It makes it much richer. Still
| not sure if I like it more or not.
|
| [0] https://www.billyparisi.com/homemade-pizza-homemade-pizza-
| do...
|
| [1] https://youtu.be/xuy8sP4Wb2k?t=142
|
| [2] https://youtu.be/BSHh0MmJM1U?t=339
| carlesfe wrote:
| A question for italians: do you use raw tomato puree, or do you
| fry it? I've always used fried tomato puree (fried at home with
| olive oil)
| ggurgone wrote:
| Hear me out this is one of the best how-to
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN2HkepzPhU
|
| - an Italian who eats 2 pies per week on average
| chadcmulligan wrote:
| since we're sharing - I love watching this lady cook Italian
| food https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjXWVSbWBV4
| ggurgone wrote:
| haha that accent! The recipes seem legit. This type of
| cuisine is quite healthy
| cptwunderlich wrote:
| Or this one, which I think is the exact same recipe by the same
| guy, but made in the oven:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq90lUQUCUo
|
| I really love his accent xD Reminds me of my semester in Naples
| <3
| mishkovski wrote:
| Our last attempt:
|
| https://www.instagram.com/p/B_TDukylKSj/
|
| We made it in a regular home oven but on maximum temperature of
| 285degC (545degF) and broiler on. It takes no more than 2-3
| minutes.
|
| We followed this recipe:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-SJGQ2HLp8
| exhilaration wrote:
| I'm curious, do you have a very thin layer of seemingly
| uncooked/raw/wet dough just under the tomato sauce? We use a
| high quality pizza steel, run our oven at max heat and preheat
| everything for 45 minutes, but that layer is always there.
| mishkovski wrote:
| No. It is good. We bake the pizza in cast iron pan. We also
| preheat it for 45 minutes.
| lisper wrote:
| Wow, Instagram has really gone over to the dark side. They
| haven't just broken the back button, they have entirely
| disabled it. There is no way to escape that site other than
| typing in a new URL or going to your browser history.
| jasonlotito wrote:
| Works fine in desktop Safari, so it's a problem with your
| browser.
| lisper wrote:
| Interesting. I'm using firefox with noscript. So it's not
| that Instagram has intentionally disabled the back button,
| it's (apparently) that they're trying to intercept it
| somehow and when they fail it ends up disabled. Still kinda
| hinky if you ask me.
| mishkovski wrote:
| Terrible, sorry about that. Only on desktop though. On mobile
| works fine.
| alanfranz wrote:
| Norther Italian here: the recipe for the dough is reasonable. I
| usually go for 500g flour (typically a mix of 0 and 00 which I
| find at my grocery store) and 300ml water.
|
| If you want a much quicker fermentation, You can use between 15g
| and 25g of yeast. Put a couple teaspoons of sugar to let the
| yeast work better, and make sure the water is between 20degC and
| 45degC.
|
| But the most interesting idea for home baking is the "double
| fermentation": let the dough rest for about one hour in a
| slightly warm environment (20degC - 40degC - usually that means
| starting the oven for one minute, then turning it off and putting
| the covered dough in). Then prepare the base for the pizza on
| your baking tin, but DO NOT PUT anything on it; instead, leave it
| for 30-45 min more resting in the oven. Then, extract it, put the
| tomato and other things, and cook it.
| tomcooks wrote:
| Using honey instead of sugar in my opion gives even better
| results.
| 867-5309 wrote:
| someone mentioned honey instead of sugar, can I have some
| thoughts on milk instead of water and brown instead of white
| flour?
| nakedrobot2 wrote:
| - don't use sugar at all
|
| - no
|
| - no
| 867-5309 wrote:
| I've seen them all in recipes and am seeking alternatives,
| but thanks anyway..
| xchip wrote:
| Please ignore all these experts, all they want is to make you
| feel special because you drink/eat their stuff.
|
| Above a certain threshold one cannot tell the difference between
| good and very good. Wine tasters know it and it has been very
| well documented.
|
| When it comes to flavours, as long as it doesn't harm you, your
| judgement is as good as anybody else.
| eagsalazar2 wrote:
| That threshold is very different for different people. I'm not
| a wine drinker so I won't comment but different people
| definitely have or have developed a much more refined sense of
| "what is good".
|
| In general of course a person can eat whatever crap they want
| and it doesn't affect me _except_ when that person is cooking
| or picking out food for me.
| namelosw wrote:
| Oh, I struggled this for so many years, and I still couldn't
| convince myself wine is tastier than grape juice. Maybe it's
| one of those 'street credit' things?
| tomcooks wrote:
| Maybe it's more about finding your own taste and let
| "experts" believe you can confine nature and culture
| (food/language/skintones) into imaginary boxes drawn on a
| map.
| keiferski wrote:
| I really wish this wine meme would die. Essentially every test
| done to 'prove' that there's no difference between cheap and
| expensive wines has had two massive flaws:
|
| 1. The label of 'wine expert' is left undefined. True
| sommeliers have spent thousands of hours studying wine and are
| not the same thing as a guy that takes a weekend wine-tasting
| course and gets a certificate. Yet most 'studies' fail to
| mention this.
|
| _Just as importantly here, what literally every single source
| we could find not only leaves out when reporting this story,
| but in the vast majority of cases falsely states, is the actual
| qualifications of those being tested by Brochet. It turns out,
| the people he was using as taste testers were not experts at
| all, simply undergraduate students studying oenology (wine and
| wine making). While certainly probably more knowledgeable than
| your average person on the street, nobody would call an
| undergraduate mathematics major just learning the ropes a "math
| expert", nor would their skills be indicative of what their
| professors who have vastly more experience and are actual
| experts are capable of doing._
|
| 2. The 'experiments' are done in a totally unscientific
| arbitrary way, with massive amounts of suggestion and
| psychological influence. If this were any other scientific
| study, it would be laughed out of the room for its total lack
| of rigor.
|
| _As the Master Sommeliers demonstrate by passing the taste
| test they are subjected to in the first place, with enough time
| and study, there are actually people who are exceptionally good
| at identifying and judging attributes of wines in the right
| circumstances. But overwhelm there sense with 100 wines or
| change their expectations about what they are tasting and their
| perceptions will change significantly, seemingly, making them
| little better than a random person off the street at telling
| anything definitive about the wine._
|
| https://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2019/07/can-profess...
| zdragnar wrote:
| > change their expectations about what they are tasting and
| their perceptions will change significantly
|
| Isn't that the heart of the "meme"? I never thought it was
| "no difference" or "all wines are equal" but rather that you
| get out of it what you want.
| philwelch wrote:
| In other words, it _is_ possible to tell the difference
| between cheap and expensive wines, but only if you're so far
| along the hedonism treadmill that you've literally spent
| thousands of hours training for a career in it.
| keiferski wrote:
| Replace _wines_ with something you personally find
| interesting or rewarding and you 'll see why 'hedonism
| treadmill' is a poor choice of words.
| saiya-jin wrote:
| A simple flaw in your reasoning - none of the target audience
| of this comparison is actually a sommelier expert. The whole
| argument is about an average joe sampling say a wine costing
| say 15 euros in france and one costing 500. And the same
| average joe benefiting very little if at all from paying too
| much. Its like buying La Ferrari which all experts praise,
| when all you need is to drive 80kmh to next town.
|
| I personally, by no means an expert in any way, can attest
| the difference is minimal and mostly comes down to one's own
| preferences / pairing of wine with food in given situation.
|
| Its often one of those markets where you buy your own
| emotions with higher price rather than actual, measurable
| subjective added value.
|
| But yes, if you use a wine costing 2-3 euros, quality of
| taste in many aspects will be incomparable even to that
| average joe.
| keiferski wrote:
| > And the same average joe benefiting very little if at all
| from paying too much. Its like buying La Ferrari which all
| experts praise, when all you need is to drive 80kmh to next
| town.
|
| But that isn't usually why these studies are often
| referenced, and certainly wasn't what the OP meant. The
| argument presented is often that _there is no difference
| between high-end wines and low-end wines_ , which seems to
| be demonstrably false. That's not the same thing as _unless
| you 're an expert, you won't be able to tell the
| difference._
|
| The reality is that wine appreciation, like any field,
| requires experience and knowledge to build "taste." This is
| pretty obvious when it comes to other things - no one would
| suggest that you could understand or appreciate the nuances
| of a WW2 film without knowing what WW2 _was_ , but somehow
| when it comes to matters of taste in art, food, etc., the
| totally-ignorant person's opinion is equal to the expert's.
|
| I'd say it's far more likely that contemporary culture is
| aesthetically/phenomenologically illiterate.
| danenania wrote:
| Is there a good study out there showing that an expert
| can reliably distinguish between average and expensive
| wine? It should be quite easy to prove, but all I ever
| hear about are studies showing the opposite. Because
| there's a _huge_ financial incentive in making people
| believe that expensive wine really tastes better, I think
| it 's reasonable to be more skeptical of wine experts
| than e.g. WW2 experts.
| easytiger wrote:
| > But yes, if you use a wine costing 2-3 euros, quality of
| taste in many aspects will be incomparable even to that
| average joe.
|
| 2-3 euro wine tastes disgusting to even an "average joe"
| saiya-jin wrote:
| I mentioned prices in euro and France for a reason -
| there are wine in 2-3 euros category that can be bought
| there ie in Carrefour/Casino, that qualify as say 'table
| wine' and are perfectly fine for having say with lunch
| and dinner. No bad/sour aftertaste, taste is simple but
| very smooth.
|
| The country I come from, this would be put in above-
| average quality (which isn't very nice to my home
| country, but that's my experience).
| arethuza wrote:
| Pretty sure I've had wine that cheap in France and it was
| perfectly OK.
| subpixel wrote:
| For my wedding we blind tasted 20 wines and wound up
| unanimously choosing $7/bottle Mark West Pinot.
|
| It won out over several wines that where four times as
| expensive.
| gridlockd wrote:
| > Its like buying La Ferrari which all experts praise, when
| all you need is to drive 80kmh to next town.
|
| Any car driver can easily appreciate the difference between
| a Ferrari and, say, a Ford. You can't say the same about
| wine.
|
| Now, since you're making a utilitarian argument here - what
| is the point of becoming a sommelier when all it does is
| make you so sensitive to the taste of wine that you need to
| spend hundreds of dollars for "a really good one"?
|
| On the surface, this sounds like a huge waste of time and
| money to me. _Perhaps_ having such a fine taste is pure
| bliss. My suspicion though is that sommeliers are just
| bullshitters that use their knowledge of expensive produce
| to get into the company of wealthy people - and earn a
| decent living.
| keiferski wrote:
| > Now, since you're making a utilitarian argument here -
| what is the point of becoming a sommelier when all it
| does is make you so sensitive to the taste of wine that
| you need to spend hundreds of dollars for "a really good
| one"?
|
| Because not everything is about maximizing economic
| transactions?
| oldandboring wrote:
| I've thought about what must happen to a master sommelier's
| "blind taste" skills once they've passed the exam and no
| longer need to practice that skill on a regular basis. My
| assumption is that, like with any specialist, that skill gets
| rusty if not used, and that the more important everyday
| skills in that job revolve around their _knowledge_ of wine,
| ability to suggest good pairings, and customer service.
| keiferski wrote:
| That's a good point. It's sort of a "problem of the expert"
| - as you become better at something, the number of people
| with your level of knowledge becomes smaller and smaller.
| Since you have less experts or challenges to go up against
| (or indirectly, exams), your skill level drops.
| close04 wrote:
| You don't even have to go that far. If it takes an expert
| to tell the difference then it stands to reason that the
| average person will never really taste the benefit above
| the average level.
|
| I guess this is why it's called "a matter of taste".
| Anecdote: I can't stand vinegar in anything. So it's
| really interesting to see someone insist that I should
| use it because it makes this or that better.
|
| Experts have to judge based (also) on objective criteria.
| You don't, you just like it more or less.
| GuB-42 wrote:
| I've met professional wine tasters. They are like human
| chromatographs. They don't just tell you how good a wine is.
| They can tell you which compounds are in excess, and which
| are lacking, they can guess what went wrong with the
| winemaking process and the growing conditions. They are an
| essential part of quality control and how wineries fine tune
| their process.
|
| As for difference between cheap and expensive wines, the same
| wine tasters tell me that price does not always correlate
| with quality, it is mostly a marketing thing. In fact, the
| ones I know are more likely to serve you cheap (but good!)
| wine. They know enough not to rely on price as a proxy for
| quality.
| Obi_Juan_Kenobi wrote:
| They can tell you anything they like, doesn't make it true.
|
| When put up against a real triangle/discrimination test,
| they just don't stack up. I'm not saying they don't do
| anything, but claims of being able to discriminate
| individual compounds in any sort of detail are not
| substantiated.
| WhompingWindows wrote:
| I think your argumentation lacks evidence. Where is the
| evidence for your very strong claims?
| rv-de wrote:
| Technically you're right. But food is for many people more than
| the taste. It's a form of escapism, a little show that
| distracts you from the chore. For that to work you need this
| fantasy of the master chef and authenticity that allows you to
| enter a different culture mentally. It's kind of live action
| role play.
| subpixel wrote:
| Just as importantly, don't fall for fetishism. Neapolitan pizza
| is a very specific style of pizza that, while "authentic" and
| photogenic, is by no means a superior style of pizza.
| Especially made poorly, at home, in an oven that is 200 degrees
| colder than necessary!
| mtrovo wrote:
| I feel that learning the classics on cooking is a good way to
| see how engineering mindset is close to cooking and food
| preparation mindset.
|
| Talking about Italian food in specific, they're very
| opinionated about what's the best way to work each
| ingredient, how to work dough, how long to leave pasta
| resting, and what's the best blend of herbs and the best
| species for each recipe. On engineering we call it
| standardization not fetishism. That's what DOP, DOC and DOCG
| is about, and that's what the Neapolitan on Neapolitan pizza
| is about, you know that if you eat a Neapolitan pizza that
| follow the official process you will have a predicted flavor
| on your pizza, like it or not.
|
| By reading the classics and asking yourself why they cook
| that way you will start to understand that you can use
| shortcuts where the output could be the same or close enough.
| For instance stone is a very bad heat conductor, that's why
| you need a very hot oven to deliver the right amount of heat
| to cook your pizza. But if you use a better conductor you
| could deliver the same amount of energy on a much lower
| temperature. On the "Modernist Cuisine at Home"[0] book they
| research this topic and arrive on the conclusion that a thick
| baking steel sheet arrives on much better results, they even
| sell their official baking steel [1].
|
| [0] https://www.amazon.com/Modernist-Cuisine-Home-Nathan-
| Myhrvol... [1] https://modernistcuisine.com/shop/baking-
| steel/
| notechback wrote:
| DOP, DOC, etc are not about preference, they are
| designations for regionally protected products names with
| some production standards. Just like champagne is only
| champagne if it was made in champagne region from the right
| grapes in the right methodology.
|
| These assure on the other hand normally a good quality
| standard as the regional producers' associations have every
| incentive to keep quality good.
| basch wrote:
| and in America, its VPN.
| https://americas.pizzanapoletana.org/en/members
| subpixel wrote:
| Exactly - they are not for standardization, they are for
| marketing.
| tomcooks wrote:
| While I agree on your fetishism point, which is in my opinion
| a byproduct of both post-colonialist "exoticism" and capital-
| driven standardization of products: using a refractory stone
| allows your kitchen oven to reach the right temperatures.
|
| And it IS a superior style of pizza /s
| ReptileMan wrote:
| Sorry - refractory stone is not enough for neapolitan pizza
| in home oven. You need something like the baking steel. And
| if you manage to get the infrared heater on during bake -
| you can get into the holy 2 minutes of bake time.
| crispyambulance wrote:
| You're right about oven temperature. Household ovens can
| barely hit 500F, that's not quite enough for proper pizza.
|
| There are some workarounds that will make very good pizza at
| home.
|
| My favorite is to use an outdoor grill instead of an oven. A
| hot grill with a pre-heated pizza stone is totally capable of
| reaching proper temperature. This can actually make
| neopolitan style pizza crust and works perfectly for other
| styles too.
|
| If you can't do a grill, starting the pizza in a large
| preheated cast iron pan on the stove top will help. Finish it
| off in the oven. Not Neopolitan, but very good.
|
| If you are using the recommended "00-flour" (finely milled
| high gluten bread flour), and you're not reaching pizza oven
| temperatures because you're using a household oven, add
| diastatic malt (powder) to the dough mix. This boosts yeast
| activity and also helps with coloration of the dough at lower
| temperatures. Otherwise, the pizza will be "done" before the
| crust has a chance to color properly.
| gruez wrote:
| >Household ovens can barely hit 500F
|
| There's a hack you can do where you use your oven's self
| clean function to reach high temperatures. Most ovens have
| a physical interlock preventing you from opening the door
| during a self clean cycle though, so to work around that
| you'll have to void your warranty and saw off the lock.
| oftenwrong wrote:
| I have done it at my old (rented) apartment without
| physically destroying the latch. If I remember correctly
| (this was ~10 years ago), I was able to remove the latch
| assembly entirely, and then jump the wires for the sensor
| that detects the latch being engaged.
|
| That said, cooking pizza on the clean cycle is difficult,
| and not necessarily worth it. Timing and vertical
| positioning in the oven is crucial, or you will end up
| with a burnt bottom or toppings. Make sure you have a
| long peel, and keep your face away from the heat when you
| open the door.
| subpixel wrote:
| > Not Neopolitan, but very good.
|
| I take issue with Neapolitan being a standard of quality.
| It's just a style.
| eagsalazar2 wrote:
| Neapolitan Pizza is the poster child for fetishism, hipster
| cargo cult, worshiping a style that has only been deemed by
| the community as superior, not experienced individually to be
| so. At its absolute best it is significantly inferior to top
| American examples.
| tomcooks wrote:
| Yea that's why Italians have mustaches, they are all
| hipsters.
|
| Please please please go to Italy and show them who's boss,
| make sure you film.
| arcturus17 wrote:
| Saying that the best American examples are better is
| exactly the same kind of fetishism...
|
| Me personally, I think Italian (non-Neapolitan) thin crust
| pizza is the best I've ever tried but they're all just
| different styles.
| KozmoNau7 wrote:
| Pizza tonde is my favorite kind of pizza, I much prefer
| it over Neapolitan, plus it's much easier to make at
| home.
|
| I also adhere to the Roman style in that there are no
| rules for toppings. Anything goes.
| pen2l wrote:
| I had this fetishism about neopolitan pizzas for a while
| despite having never actually tried one. Mostly due to
| reading a lot of what Kenji-Lopez and others wrote on the
| web.
|
| There's an annual pizza festival in the summer i nBoston,
| which brings a lot of Italians with their stone ovens
| making neopolitan pies. So I went there and finally got
| to try neopolitan pies which according to pizza
| aficionados are supposedly really good.
|
| Man, I was in for a ride. Just not my taste. I'll admit
| that I may be a charlatan or have a pedestrian palate,
| but I can say now I'll prefer a slice of NY pie over an
| authentic neopolitan pie any day of the week.
| stevievee wrote:
| Definitely not necessary to buy ingredients "certified" by the
| "Associazione Vera Pizza Napoletana" but following the
| traditional methods yields some really tasty pizza.
| hinoki wrote:
| You can train yourself to detect most of these differences, but
| you do need to try many different "good" versions of something
| to develop your taste.
|
| But beware, once you have a sophisticated taste for something
| you can no longer enjoy all the "bad" ones.
| technothrasher wrote:
| I agree with you that your own judgement is what matters on
| things like flavors, as long as you don't close yourself off to
| certain foods that may take a few tries to appreciate.
|
| But I think you've dialed down a very complicated issue too far
| when you say "one cannot tell the difference between good and
| very good". A better characterization would be that many
| factors go into the perception of taste, and it's not always
| straightforward to identify "good". Here's a decent article on
| wine tasting that explores the idea much more honestly than,
| "Haha, experts can't tell!":
| https://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2019/07/can-profess...
| throw0101a wrote:
| Previous discussion from last week:
|
| * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22897962
| orangesquirrel wrote:
| For anyone interested in more information:
|
| I recently discovered Vito Iacopelli's excellent YouTube channel
| on (predominantly Neapolitan) pizza making. He runs a Neapolitan
| pizzaria in Los Angeles and covers things like stretching
| techniques, tests with different ingredients and fermentation
| processes, and methods specifically designed to be used at home.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/user/maestrovitoiacopelli
| albmoriconi wrote:
| I am from Naples and eat regularly at Gino Sorbillo's and Ciro
| Salvo's places. As it often happens here, everyone will swear by
| its pretty small and obscure "favorite place", but they are
| masters without doubt ;)
|
| The dough recipe from the article is pretty legit and exactly the
| way I do it at home; the main problem I see is that it would be
| pretty hard to find good Mozzarella or Fiordilatte cheese
| (Fiordilatte di Agerola is slightly drier than Mozzarella,
| therefore producing less liquid in the oven, and also costs
| less), and I find that pizza done according to the Neapolitan
| recipe loses much when using a different kind of cheese.
|
| A pet peeve of mine is that many recipes, while getting most of
| it right, use instant yeast; an important part of Neapolitan
| pizza is the slow dough rise using very little amounts of yeast,
| that should take from a minimum of 7/8 hours to an entire day or
| more (of course by storing it in a fridge).
| cmain wrote:
| A good place to source the cheeses in the US is Caputo Brothers
| in Pennsylvania. They are one of the few places in the US doing
| cultured mozzarella and also have a lower moisture version for
| pizza.
|
| https://caputobrotherscreamery.com/collections/cheeses
| cmain wrote:
| Another thing to note is that since a lot of Neapolitan pizza
| makers conduct the entire fermentation at room temp, salt
| percentages are important and can change throughout the year
| with ambient temps.
| oggy wrote:
| Sorbillo's is the best I've tried. I remember walking in front
| of the shop a few times and thinking it's some kind of tourist
| trap (it's on the possibly most touristy street in the city),
| but decided to try it out in the end. Absolutely fantastic. The
| pie was great, but TBH I think there were other places in town
| whose pies were as good, but the quality of the toppings...
| just wow. And I was surprised that the price was the same as
| any other place in town (I think a marinara was something like
| 3-4 Euros).
|
| My second favorite is in Switzerland of all places, in the
| small town of Meilen. Amazing toppings too. But I went there
| once since the start of the lockdowns, and it didn't taste as
| good. I don't know if it's the pandemic leaving a bitter taste,
| or just an issue for their supply chains...
| JessCav84 wrote:
| Isn't the oven one of the keys? And how true is that 'leopard
| spots' on the cornicione is a sign of a well made pizza?
| albmoriconi wrote:
| It is, because it has to deliver heat from the bottom at high
| temperature and for a pretty short time (around two minutes);
| it's not that unusual in Naples to have a wood oven in our
| vacation homes, but in the city many live in condos so it's
| impossible.
|
| Leopard spots, also called "maculatura" or "mako" in some
| pizza-lovers forums, is considered by some a mark of perfect
| maturation of the "panetto" (the little bread, i.e. the dough
| used for a single pizza); to be honest it's quite a mystery
| to me how to obtain a good one, and as it often happens in
| this matters reality tends to conflate with legend: I've also
| heard sometimes that it is a sign of temperature
| mismanagement of the panetto, and I am not experienced enough
| to have a say on this :)
| fenwick67 wrote:
| Mozzarella is surprisingly easy to make at home in less than an
| hour.
| slow_donkey wrote:
| Why would instant yeast have an effect on slow rising? You'd
| just use a smaller amount than AD or cake yeast? I can't think
| of any significant difference especially compared to AD.
| albmoriconi wrote:
| It seems that I wrongly thought that "instant yeast" was what
| we call "lievito istantaneo", i.e. baking powder, that would
| give a a pretty different end-product.
|
| It looks like it can also refer to instant active yeast, i.e.
| dehydrated beer yeast, that should actually be fine as far as
| I can tell (I have no idea of exact proportions however).
| chrisgarand wrote:
| Officially, I understood you couldn't use dry yeast, that
| has changed it seems:
| https://www.pizzanapoletana.org/en/ricetta_pizza_napoletana
|
| That being said, you can probably use a smaller amount of
| instant yeast, it definitely shouldn't be replaced as a 1:1
| with regular yeast as the fermentation time is an integral
| part of the flavour profile.
| Arnt wrote:
| Dehydrated yeast will work, but getting the amounts right
| is more difficult in my experience. I can cut a paper-thin
| sliver from a yeast cube easier than than I can count the
| right number of grains of dehydrated yeast.
| ggsp wrote:
| Grams are a thing ;)
| systemvoltage wrote:
| Most people have a hard time measuring 0.02% baking
| percentage of 200g flour. Not because they don't know
| what grams is, but because they don't have the equipment
| or means to measure it.
|
| Everytime I hear someone say things about units, it is
| not that people don't understand - there are other issues
| around that. For example, Americans _know_ that metric
| system is better but they can 't just switch solo until
| the entire nation changes which is a huge task.
|
| Furthermore, those people who gawk at Americans still use
| 360 degrees for a full circle, 24 hour segments in a day
| and other weird units - for e.g. Switzerland _still_ uses
| points for fonts! Not mm.
|
| I would go ahead and even say - Metric system is based on
| base 10 which sucks, we should rewind back the history
| and grow 12 fingers because Duodecimal system is far
| better than decimal system:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duodecimal
|
| We are just stuck with base 10. Just like Americans are
| stuck with their archaic units. It has nothing to do with
| the fact that people are smart/dumb. I am gonna push back
| on that nonsense.
| [deleted]
| colinjoy wrote:
| > for e.g. Switzerland still uses points for fonts! Not
| mm.
|
| Anybody who deals with typography in any professional
| capacity does so. It is the normal, not some obscure
| Swiss habit.
| systemvoltage wrote:
| That's my point that supports "America is the only
| country in the world that still doesn't use metric
| units." - well, they tried. Many times: https://en.wikipe
| dia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Stat...
|
| It is sometimes hard to get rid of 100+ years of history,
| in the case of typography thats probably longer.
| seanhunter wrote:
| Instant yeast tends to be very aggressive/successful so what
| happens if you use a small amount of instant yeast is you get
| a slow rise but it's a monoculture microbially speaking
| versus if you use a typical sourdough starter (called "madre"
| in Italian baking) there are several strains of bacteria
| which are about equivalent in terms of how fast they
| multiply. So the final dough has a more diverse microbiome.
| The theory is that leads to a more complex taste because of
| the way the different yeast strains digest the sugars etc and
| affect the taste of the resulting product.
| slow_donkey wrote:
| Definitely agree in regards to sourdough starter vs yeast.
| Although I thought most Neapolitan pizzerias didn't use
| sourdough anyways - would love to be wrong about this.
| sk5t wrote:
| It's called the same thing ("mother") in English, across
| uses in sourdough starter, kombucha, balsamic vinegar...
| elhudy wrote:
| Are they ever made using sourdough (wild yeast)? I imagine that
| would be more "traditional"?
| mhkhung wrote:
| Would not considered Neapolitian. There are some 'higher-end'
| pizza places there that don't follow the 'tradition as
| dictated by committee'.
|
| https://www.eater.com/2018/2/23/17025722/ugly-delicious-
| pizz...
| basch wrote:
| How do you feel about Neapolitan vs Montanara?
| misiti3780 wrote:
| Ciao, Come siete ?
|
| I'm not sure if you have ever been to NYC but an interesting
| observation I have had with Gino Sorbillo is the pizza in
| Napoli is very good, but he/they opened a restaurant in NYC and
| it's absolutely average at best.
|
| I assume they import everything, but quality wise, the places
| are polar opposites.
|
| Also curious your thoughts of Da Michele?
| tigershark wrote:
| Not sure in NY, there I tried only ovest and a couple of
| others so I can't really judge. In London I tried all the
| famous ones: Da Michele, 50 Kalo, Sartori, Santa Maria,
| Santore, Franco Manca and probably many others that I don't
| remember now. Da Michele I think is a bit overrated. In 50
| Kalo I appreciated a lot the extremely fresh and flavourful
| ingredients but the pizza dough was not the best. Santa
| Maria, at least the original in Ealing Broadway, is probably
| more tasty and balanced compared to the others above. Franco
| Manca has a pretty good price/quality ratio, but it's not as
| good as the previous ones. As a matter of personal preference
| Sartori is the best that I tried in London, just a sliver
| above all the very nice ones cited before, and also a bit
| better than his "twin" place Santore. I'd like to go back to
| Napoli and try Sorbillo's pizza there. In my place in Italy I
| can't find a pizza as good as London, for what is worth...
| yomly wrote:
| I recently went to Naples and IMO the secret to just how
| amazing everything tastes there is the quality of produce. I
| don't know whether you can even export it - I don't know
| whether that kind of quality travels.
|
| On the Netflix show ugly delicious one of the chefs explain
| supposedly in Naples chefs will choose their mozzarella
| freshness by the hour (e.g. 6 hours or 12 hours) but to make
| "authentic" Neapolitan pizza with Neapolitan mozzarella
| you're not going to get Mozzarella fresher than 7 days old...
| misiti3780 wrote:
| yes -- but on the same show they highlighted people making
| ridiculous high quality fresh naples-style pizza in other
| countries other than italy - japan, denmark, etc.
|
| the cheese is the hardest part of the pizza to replicate
| outside of italy for sure, you can easily buy high quality
| imported olive oil, flour, and san marzano tomatos.
| yomly wrote:
| yeah the guy from Denmark resorted to making his own
| mozzarella by rearing his own cows - hence the point
| about exporting.
|
| Japan have decent local dairy (Hokkaido milk) and their
| overall attitude to produce is similar to Italy which
| probably is a big contributor to their food culture
| davidw wrote:
| > I recently went to Naples and IMO the secret to just how
| amazing everything tastes there is the quality of produce.
| I don't know whether you can even export it - I don't know
| whether that kind of quality travels.
|
| Bingo. Produce and ingredients are generally very high
| quality in Italy, because people care about and make their
| purchases based on that, rather than simply looking at how
| much they're getting at a given price and how good it looks
| on the shelves.
| pachico wrote:
| "come state" :)
| airstrike wrote:
| Try Pizzarte and Naples 45 in Midtown
|
| And for a different type of pizza but honestly my favorite
| pizza on Earth, try the Portobello pizza at Mediterraneo on
| the UES. They have no idea how good that pizza is otherwise
| they'd turn the whole place into a pizzeria and just do that
| everyday
| tigershark wrote:
| Ah right, pizzarte was another one that I tried in NY,
| almost forgot. It's really good, but still not at the level
| at the best that I tried in London or in Italy in my
| opinion.
| bearzoo wrote:
| in NYC una is the best i've found. it easily competes with
| the best in naples (in my opinion)
| tigershark wrote:
| Thanks for the tip, I'm going to check after
| coronavirus.. if we still survive.
| airstrike wrote:
| Thanks! First time I hear the name, so will definitely
| check it out next time I'm in the area (probably 2021 by
| the looks of things!)
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| Given the stories I hear from pretty much everyone in my
| circle who's been to the US, there's a general problem with
| food there tasting bland, in comparison to Europe. Like
| others, I suspect the ingredients in the States are worse for
| some reason (perhaps they've been optimized too much for
| shelf life).
| bsder wrote:
| Send them to Santa Fe.
|
| Bland will _NOT_ be your problem.
|
| However, you have to understand that a lot of the US really
| doesn't deal well with food that isn't bland--a holdover
| from WWII rationing and canned foods, probably. IIRC,
| McDonalds(?) went through a huge engineering process to
| attempt to add an ingredient to their pipeline. They found
| that adding cucumber was fine, but avocado was a step too
| far for the midwest.
| whycombagator wrote:
| > Given the stories I hear from pretty much everyone in my
| circle who's been to the US, there's a general problem with
| food there tasting bland, in comparison to Europe
|
| I think that heavily depends on where your circle is eating
| at in both places.
| dangerboysteve wrote:
| I use packed dry yeast but I have always let my dough do a slow
| rise in the refrigerator for a minimum of 3 days up to 6 days.
| I use 00 flour and cook the pizza's using my Roccbox pizza oven
| or a custom Baking Steel 23x19 3/8" steel in the oven.
|
| Also if you want a good guide for NY style pizza then this is a
| good read.
|
| http://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm
| devchix wrote:
| He hacks his home oven to use the self-cleaning cycle to bake
| at 800degF. :blink: I'm not comfortable doing that. I rarely
| crank mine to 500degF, when I do there's quite a bit of smoke
| that has to be vent.
| gunshai wrote:
| Think about accidentally dripping room temperature liquid
| on to the oven window during the process....
| Obi_Juan_Kenobi wrote:
| Neopolitan is a setup for failure in the home kitchen. It's one
| of the most demanding styles in terms of equipment and
| preparation. It makes zero sense to pursue it at home unless you
| actually have a very strong preference for this style (highly
| unlikely if commercial pizza is even a crude reflection of
| preferences).
|
| It's fetishism. It's sought because it has cultural cachet, it's
| hard to obtain, it's 'authentic', etc.
| emptybits wrote:
| > setup for failure ... most demanding ... makes zero sense ...
| It's fetishism. It's sought because it has cultural cachet,
| it's hard to obtain, it's 'authentic', etc.
|
| Totally agree. There's beauty in such crazy pursuits, don't you
| think?
|
| I shared the link in the spirit of HN, knowing this place is
| full of people who enjoy chasing obsessions that are risky, or
| just because, or because someone said it was impossible.
|
| Long live kitchen hackers with zero sense! It's always
| enriching and occasionally successful. :-)
| rv-de wrote:
| I very much enjoy making pizza (or pasta) in the evening after
| work. It's a great way to relax, watch something on the side and
| provides some kind of Italian style escapism where you enter
| semi-consciously a fantasy world of Mediterranean savoir vivre
| (what's the Italian term here?). In the end I enjoy (usually
| together with my girlfriend or guests) the result with a nice
| bottle of red wine which provides the elevating intoxication to
| round up the experience.
|
| I like to experiment with my pizza and pasta recipes and place
| focus on trying to keep it simple. I believe that art benefits of
| some structure. Think rhyming patterns in poems or tonality in
| music. I'm aware of atonal music or not rhyming poetry but that's
| my point - it's a very different experience - more difficult.
| That's why I also like to not go and buy the best most expensive
| ingredients but instead attempt to restrict them to what I get
| from ALDI. Sometimes I'm just going crazy in some bio market and
| just buy the top notch stuff. But it seems that the taste is not
| that much depending on whether the tomatoes are from San Marzano
| or your run-of-the-mill variety from a regular super market.
|
| My latest - not yet used - pizza gadget is an oven stone. Can't
| wait to find out how it will affect the outcome.
| joefourier wrote:
| A pizza stone is a definite improvement, but what will make an
| absolute world of difference is a proper pizza oven (preferably
| wood-fired, but gas also works).
|
| I instantly went from mediocre home pizza to almost restaurant
| grade simply by switching from my household oven to an Ooni,
| despite using the same ingredients and preparation method.
| nakedrobot2 wrote:
| Get the G3 Ferrari electric pizza oven. you can cook a pizza in
| 2-3 minutes in that. There is even (of course!) an online
| community of pizza oven hackers who install additional electric
| heating elements in the oven to get the temperature even higher
| :)
| pachico wrote:
| Disclaimer: I grew up in Italy and frequently travel there.
|
| Best pizza I ever had was in Vienna, yes, made by an Italian but
| not the classical Napolitan pizza. I strongly prefer Rome as
| reference for it.
| chesterarthur wrote:
| The secret to great pizza sauce is more sugar than you'd expect.
| tomcooks wrote:
| I don't understand the downvotes, given that sugar both feeds
| the yeast bacteria needed for proper rising, and to balance the
| high acidity of tomatoes.
| taffer wrote:
| You don't need sugar in the sauce if you use high quality
| tomatoes that have a balanced sweetness / acidity.
| gnrlst wrote:
| yes but you don't mix the dough with the tomatoes until the
| very end so it wouldn't impact the yeast. With proper flour
| sugar is not necessary, as the flour itself will be broken
| down by the yeast (hence the maturing/proofing stage). If you
| "exhaust" the flour, then you'll need sugar to get an
| "artificial" Maillard reaction and a nice browning of the
| crust.
| tomcooks wrote:
| Yes obviously you don't add tomatoes and sugar to the
| dough, you prepare a sauce on the side and add a bit of
| sugar to that.
|
| Yeast needing no sugar to work is something I've never
| heard of, could you please forward more information about
| this? Thank you.
| cyphar wrote:
| Dough will rise just as well without any added sugar --
| the starches in the flour are the primary food source for
| the yeast. If you don't believe me, try it yourself. The
| purpose of sugar in doughs is to assist browning --
| especially at home-oven temperatures -- and "improve" the
| flavour. I personally prefer baking dough without sugar,
| but you do whatever you prefer.
| tomcooks wrote:
| I prefer to experiment, that's why I'm asking more
| details. I'll try right now.
| nkozyra wrote:
| There's simple carbohydrates in flour, so presumably
| that's what the comment is implying.
| jpm_sd wrote:
| I always have a hard time getting the dough stretched out really
| thin. I end up with super floof pizza. What am I doing wrong?
| nkozyra wrote:
| You may not be letting it sit long enough or you may not be
| stretching it long enough.
|
| The advantage of the dough toss is the centrifugal force that
| adds enough force to stretch the dough a lot and evenly.
|
| If I don't spin my dough I get a pie crust that's too thick.
| gomox wrote:
| Most likely gluten development. Aka you need more kneading, or
| higher protein content flour, or both (but most likely just the
| former).
| tomcooks wrote:
| It obviously depends on what you prefer, but Neaples style
| pizza is fluffy: it doesn't get flattened but instead air
| pockets are pushed by hand towards the outside border.
| nonamenoslogan wrote:
| Personally, I like my Pizazz Pizza plate/oven thing. I make dough
| out of like 5 ingredients and let it rise for a few hours in the
| fridge. Top with whatever and eat--pizza is about enjoyment to
| me, not this Anthony Bourdain never ending quest for the perfect
| slice of sushi, its about making it, enjoying it, eating it.
| JackMcMack wrote:
| My favorite read on pizza:
| http://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm
| ThePhysicist wrote:
| Damn, he bakes those at 825F (440 degC), which unfortunately is
| unattainable with most regular home ovens. Mine e.g. maxes out
| at 300 degC so it's not hot enough to let the crust rise
| significantly and produce a nicely charred underside, at least
| not before completely burning the top.
|
| What I'm currently experimenting with to solve this problem is
| to put the pizza on a flat, heavy and preheated iron pan or
| plancha and heat it at maximum power on the induction stove for
| 3 minutes to get the metal really hot. Then I put it in the
| oven at 300 degC for around 10 minutes. Doesn't produce
| perfectly charred pizza but comes a lot closer to what you can
| achieve with a real pizza oven. Still I'm not fully satisfied
| with the result, so thanks for the article link, I'll
| definitely try to apply some tricks mentioned there!
| soylentcola wrote:
| The way I've been doing mine is to preheat the oven as hot as
| it will get and with a baking steel on the rack second to the
| top. You could probably do something similar with the iron
| pan/plancha.
|
| Then when it is as hot as it's going to get, slide the pizza
| on to the steel/pan/whatever and switch the oven to high
| broil. The heat from the baking steel cooks from the bottom
| and the broiler hits it from the top, delivering high heat on
| both sides.
|
| I can get a pretty solid pizza in 5 minutes and there are
| lots of variations on this method (broil for a few min,
| switch to bake for the last few, etc) but you can play around
| with your oven and setup to get the best results.
| karatestomp wrote:
| I get really good results with a 550F oven (pretty normal top
| temp in the US) with a pizza stone and a 7-9 minute bake
| (actually temperatures vary oven by oven, and some like to
| let the actual temp sag by as much as 100F rather than
| holding, so you've gotta reset them sometimes to get it back
| to 550).
|
| Then again I also think the dough my Zojirushi bread machine
| turns out, left to rest overnight in the fridge, is close
| enough to my hand-made dough that I don't really bother with
| the latter anymore. So maybe I'm just not very discerning. My
| pizza's definitely better than all but the highest-end,
| fancy-pizza-oven places locally, though.
|
| Stovetop start in cast iron is great for pan-style pizza,
| though. Heat the oven, build the pizza (on oil) in the pan,
| heat it 'till it sizzles for a minute or so, then in the
| oven, broiler to finish the top when you think it's getting
| close to done. Way less clean-up and lower equipment
| requirements than a stone-and-peel bake.
| jefftk wrote:
| _> he bakes those at 825F (440 degC), which unfortunately is
| unattainable with most regular home ovens_
|
| He was using a regular home oven, subverting the cleaning
| cycle: "The cabinet of most ovens is obviously designed for
| serious heat because the cleaning cycle will top out at over
| 975 which is the max reading on my Raytec digital infrared
| thermometer. The outside of the cabinet doesn't even get up
| to 85F when the oven is at 800 inside. So I clipped off the
| lock using garden shears so I could run it on the cleaning
| cycle. I pushed a piece of aluminum foil into the door latch
| (the door light switch) so that electronics don't think I've
| broken some rule by opening the door when it thinks it's
| locked. ..."
|
| Scroll down to "4- The Oven" in
| http://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm
|
| Impressive dedication, which he eventually turned into a
| restaurant: http://www.varasanos.com/
| auiya wrote:
| I've eaten there, it was pretty good. If you're going for
| that kind of dedication to pizza however, breaking off the
| lock on the cleaning cycle of your oven is a wonky way to
| go about it. You'd be better suited building a wood fire
| oven or just buying a commercial oven instead. Eventually
| this is the conclusion they learned, they just took the way
| long way to get there.
| ThePhysicist wrote:
| Ah I see, interesting! I think they call that pyrolytic
| cleaning in Europe. The problem with that is that some
| ovens will lock the door for at least 30 minutes to keep
| people from burning themselves on the very hot surface. I
| learned this the hard way when I accidentally enabled this
| program, luckily without having any food in the oven :D
| jefftk wrote:
| _> The problem with that is that some ovens will lock the
| door..._
|
| "I clipped off the lock using garden shears"
| ThePhysicist wrote:
| Ok that's hilarious. I guess I'll read the article in
| full, just briefly skimmed over it so far.
| jefftk wrote:
| The guy is so dedicated; it's a joy to read
| rcurry wrote:
| I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it, but there
| are some pizza hobbyists on YouTube who actually remove the
| safety lock from their ovens and then put them on self-
| cleaning mode to get the temperature up super high.
| gomox wrote:
| Steel slab ("pizza steel") + broiler at full blast does a
| good job.
| basch wrote:
| Would it be better with two slabs of steel, one above one
| below?
| gomox wrote:
| Intuitively, I don't think so. The steel is colder than
| the actual oven, what it does better is transfer heat by
| conduction into the dough (better than stone at that).
| That only works if it's touching the pizza.
| thechao wrote:
| The high heat drives moisture out of the ingredients faster
| than the moisture can collect on the top of the pizza. You
| can simply remove the moisture from the ingredients ahead of
| time. I make the marinara & set the sauce in a fine strainer
| in a pot, and let it drain for at least 45, preferably an
| hour. For the mozzarella, I put down a cutting board, a
| towel, some paper towel, the cheese, then reverse the whole
| process & place a skillet on top. (This can overdry the
| mozzarella, causing it to melt out, so it takes some
| experience.)
|
| Without moisture, you can cook the pizza longer, at a lower
| temperature.
|
| I combine this with Kenji Lopez-Alt's "no hack pizza" method:
| the pizza is cooked on a stone _in a heavy cast iron
| skillet_. To make the pizza, pull the skillet out of the
| oven, and put it on the stove at the highest setting your
| stove goes to (preferably a gas stove). Make the pizza _in
| the skillet_ , then return the whole thing to the oven.
| Cactus2018 wrote:
| > Foolproof Pan Pizza Recipe
|
| > THE PIZZA LAB
|
| > J. KENJI LOPEZ-ALT
|
| https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2013/01/foolproof-pan-
| pi...
| exhilaration wrote:
| Does removing the moisture prevent that thin layer of
| raw/uncooked/wet dough just under the marinara sauce?
| That's my biggest problem with making pizza at home and I
| thought it was because I just couldn't get my home oven hot
| enough.
| stevievee wrote:
| For a quick pizza, I use a "Ooni" pizza oven and the results
| have been great. It's relatively cheap and you can get the
| temperatures you are looking for. I joined their first
| kickstarter and have been buying their ovens ever since:
|
| https://uk.ooni.com/collections/shop-all/products/ooni-koda
| notechback wrote:
| Have you tried using it e.g. for baking bread, grilling
| vegetables or similar? I'm not a fan of having one-purpose
| devices.
| stx wrote:
| This is a good cheap alternative:
| https://www.amazon.com/Breville-Crispy-Crust-Pizza-
| BREBPZ600... It looks like it might be discontinued
| although there is a similar one by another brand on amazon.
| Its major drawback is its only good for a pizza as large as
| 10-12 inches and if your pizza gets a large high bubble it
| can touch the upper element. I have made much better pizza
| with it then my standard kitchen oven. I do want to build a
| brick oven in the backyard when I get a chance some day
| though.
| pbowyer wrote:
| For years I've dreamed of building a wood-fired pizza oven,
| or buying one of the cast kits from
| https://www.fornobravo.com/. But this looks way easier and
| cheaper.
|
| How long does a gas cylinder last?
| gdubs wrote:
| I have a green-egg[1] style ceramic grill that works
| really well for pizza. Wood-fired, and can get up to a
| pretty good temperature. I use a pizza stone in it.
|
| 1: The exact brand is a Kamado ceramic grill.
| character0 wrote:
| What kind of pizza stone do you use? I have a green egg,
| but have never made pizza in it.
| gdubs wrote:
| I use an Emile Henry pizza stone.
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| Cool, but why do those cost like a Rolls Royce? Just a
| big ceramic ball, but priced like its made of gold.
| gdubs wrote:
| With the Green Egg, you're paying for a brand name for
| sure. The Kamado is definitely not _cheap_ , but it's
| typically around half the price.
| ProstetnicJeltz wrote:
| My parents have a wood fired, and I have an Ooni Koda. I
| can compare:
|
| - The base is better on the wood fired oven. The Kodas
| stone doesn't get hot enough. I've read recommendations
| to replace the stone with a steel, because it's more
| conductive.
|
| - The koda heats up in a timescale I'm ok with. Like, 20
| minutes. For the wood fired oven, it usually takes about
| 2 hours for the oven itself to be hot enough, but you
| really want the oven to be completely saturated with
| heat. This can take over 4 hours.
|
| - I've had the Koda about 6 months now, and used it about
| 20 times. It hasn't really registered on the meter
| attached to my 13 kg gas bottle, and this is the only
| thing I use it for. I'm not at all concerned about the
| gas usage, even when its used a refill is cheap.
|
| - The wood oven, in contrast, goes through wood
| significantly faster than our wood burning stove.
|
| - I can do more with the wood oven, like bread, or
| roasts. The profile of the Koda means my normal cookware
| doesn't fit, and while I'm ok with buying Ooni's low
| profile cast iron, I just haven't done it yet. That said,
| while I like the idea of cooking food under real fire
| with smoke and intense direct heat, I don't see that with
| essentially a big gas oven. I have other tools.
|
| - I can take the Koda anywhere, but when my parents move
| house there's no chance the wood oven moves.
| basch wrote:
| Is there risk of the steel damaging the Koda?
|
| I had a piece of steel on a propane grill before, and the
| lid of the grill warped pretty significantly from it.
| fatboy wrote:
| I've got the big ooni oven, and use it pretty much daily
| for 1-5 pizzas. It takes 20-25 minutes to heat up, then
| maybe 90 seconds to cook a pizza. The gas burner states
| it uses about 450g per hour on max, which seems to tally
| with what I get out of a 13kg propane bottle, which is in
| the region of 45 -60 days. The propane tank costs EUR34
| to refill here.
|
| edit: I also dreamed for years of building a wood-fired
| oven, but I'm totally happy with the gas one. The way I
| can make myself a pizza in 25 minutes start to finish is
| hard to argue with. People ask me if the lack of smoke in
| the oven makes for a subpar pizza, but in my opinion it
| makes no difference. The oven is so hot that any smoke in
| a wood-fired oven is well above the pizza. It's just the
| heat you need.
| leemac wrote:
| A few years back I gave the Roccbox a shot
| (https://us.gozney.com/products/roccbox). It takes a special
| flour (Tipo 00 is what I use) so it doesn't char at 850F. The
| oven is certainly not cheap and there are cheaper
| alternatives, but I wanted something portable and more
| rugged-makes camping fun and we cook more than pizza. It
| get's me that nice charred bottom, but I typically tend to
| overcook the cheese.
|
| I still continue to use my oven at times, especially when the
| weather isn't helping. The broiler is helpful there with a
| pizza stone.
|
| No matter what I use, it's a fine dance to get things right.
| Sometimes it comes out great, especially when I give things a
| few days to cold-rise in the fridge. Usually something goes
| wrong, either too burnt, not fully cooked, or simply not
| enough pizza :)
| matteuan wrote:
| Tipo 00 is not special but very common flour n. 405 (german
| system). Many tutorials refer to this flour like there is
| something special inside that will make the pizza
| better...but there isn't.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| I just took delivery of my Roccbox and am firing it up this
| weekend.
| telesilla wrote:
| I find a pizza stone is a great addition to the regular home
| oven for crispy bases.
| carlob wrote:
| Yes! Pizza stone! Best 12 euros I've ever spent.
|
| This[0] is the kind of results I'm able to get in a normal
| Ikea electric oven that maxes out at 250 C. Another thing
| you can do with it is experiment with a Weber-like
| barbecue...
|
| [0] https://imgur.com/a/7MDWyv4
| bttrfl wrote:
| This recipe is beyond my reach mostly due to lack of a proper
| oven. Still, it's one of the best reads I've had in a long
| while. I'd read content like this on any topic if only I knew
| how to find it. Perhaps there should be a google for SEO-
| unoptimised content.
| tmaly wrote:
| My biggest challenge has been making a good sauce. I love making
| pizza at home with my kids.
| KozmoNau7 wrote:
| Honestly, I prefer using _good_ passata and just a bit of salt
| and olive oil. If you can 't get passata, use crushed tomatoes
| and blend them first. Don't cook it, any canned tomato product
| has already been heated as part of the canning process. Quality
| matters, don't use the cheap cans from the supermarket.
|
| I'm lucky that I have an absolutely fantastic Italian specialty
| store here in Copenhagen, where I can get amazing quality
| canned tomatoes and great cuts of cured meat for toppings. And
| 'nduja, oh boy the 'nduja. For cheese I actually use completely
| ordinary Danish Havarti, it's like a slightly aged low-moisture
| whole milk mozzarella, it melts great and it's available
| literally everywhere here.
|
| Neapolitan pizza is something you really need a wood-fired oven
| or something that gets similarly hot. An ordinary oven won't
| cut it. As I live in an apartment and have very limited space
| for gadgets, I stick to Roman-style pizza tonde, where you can
| get absolutely amazing results in an ordinary oven with a
| baking steel (mine is an 8mm thick 8kg slab of iron from an
| industrial steelworks, but the commercial ones are great too).
| cmain wrote:
| IMO you best bet is a simple sauce with good tomatoes. Bianco
| Dinapoli, Sclafani (from NJ not Italy), Jersey Fresh, and
| anything from Stanislaus are good choices. From there just mix
| in salt and a minced clove of garlic (per 28oz can) and
| whatever else you like (olive oil, basil, oregano). Don't cook
| it. Its better to mix it and let it sit for a few days in the
| fridge.
| cmod wrote:
| This is the best video on making neapolitan style at home with an
| cast iron pan and oven:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXAW2GseICs
|
| I've used this method a few times to superb results.
| rv-de wrote:
| pizza from a pan ... that's downright frivolous - can't wait to
| give that a try!
| chiefalchemist wrote:
| I typically buy my dough from Trader Joe's but what to start
| doing it myself. There's a recipe in the article, but anyone else
| have a goto recipe they love?
| SpaceL10n wrote:
| Former pizza cook (US based) here...
|
| This recipe is worthy of your attention:
| https://www.wpr.org/recipe-overnight-straight-pizza-dough
| robin_reala wrote:
| Jaime Oliver's dough is pretty much impossible to get wrong:
| https://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/bread-recipes/pizza-doug...
| tomcooks wrote:
| A lot of failed attempts is, undoubtely, the most important
| ingredient.
|
| Anything else will be affected by room temperature, humidity,
| oven performance, wind direction, campanilismo, etc.
|
| Buy flour, yeast, salt, oil and experiment.
| perlgeek wrote:
| Just a quick thought: depending on how adventurous you feel,
| you might consider buying ready-made pizza dough from the
| supermarket, and start with that.
|
| If you like your pizza, the next iteration would be to also
| make the dough yourself. Expect several iterations / attempts
| until you can make it well and reproducible, and get a good
| feel for how much you need.
|
| The first few batches of pizza dough I made were not very good
| :-).
| stevievee wrote:
| Edit: The video in the article is a pretty good dough "recipe"
|
| If you go down the rabbit hole, when making your dough try to
| source some double zero flour (00 flour) and experiment with
| "hydration" percentages which is the ratio of water and flour.
| These are the two ingredient factors I have found to have the
| most impact. The "recipes" are much easier than you think -
| it's mostly a waiting game
| platoscubicle wrote:
| https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2012/07/basic-new-york-s...
|
| Almost anything on serious eats by Kenji is good imo. There is
| a whole section on pizza but the above recipe is my favorite.
| mhh__ wrote:
| https://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza-recipes.html
|
| Perhaps start with the New York style
| KozmoNau7 wrote:
| Specifically this one: https://www.pizzamaking.com/lehmann-
| nystyle.php
|
| Which should really be called a Roman-style pizza tonde
| dough, which is the style that was predominantly adopted in
| NYC.
| lisper wrote:
| I can't speak to pizza, but I have an espresso story to tell.
|
| One of my favorite things about going to Italy is the quality of
| the coffee. I really like extreme dark roast (your typical
| American diner coffee doesn't even count as coffee in my book).
| In Italy you can go into pretty much any coffee shop and come
| away with a top-quality espresso. (Don't even get me started on
| Starbucks.) It's a taste I inherited from my parents, who have
| European roots.
|
| Now, my parents are seriously old-school. They still live in the
| house I grew up in, a house they bought new in 1975 and pretty
| much never updated. It still has the original flower-pattern wall
| paper. Walking into their house today feels like stepping into a
| time machine that transports you to an episode of the Brady
| Bunch. And in their kitchen is a 40-year-old Mr. Coffee which my
| father loves to futz with. On a good day he can coax it into
| producing an acceptable cup of joe, but that's about it. So for
| their 50th anniversary I decided I was going to buy them a proper
| espresso machine.
|
| Now, I know next to nothing about espresso except that I love to
| drink it, so I started doing some homework and very soon got lost
| in a morass of coffee geekdom. The range of options available in
| the espresso machine market is truly mind-boggling, as are the
| prices. I didn't mind dropping some serious coin (this was their
| 50th anniversary after all) but I wanted to make sure I was
| actually getting something for my money. So I decided to do some
| experiments.
|
| At the time I worked in a co-working office that had a high-end
| espresso machine (retail price $5000) and several Italians so I
| asked one of them to show me how to make a proper espresso. I
| wanted to use the espresso that came out of the office machine as
| a baseline and compare it to what I could make on a less
| expensive machine to see if the machine actually made a
| difference. "The first thing you have to do," he told me, "is to
| get the right beans. You have to go to this little specialty shop
| that's a half-hour drive away and get this particular brand of
| beans..." which, of course, cost $50 a pound or something absurd
| like that. But I love my parents, so I dutifully complied.
|
| Proper beanage having been procured, we spent several hours
| brewing espresso with just about every possible variation on the
| theme you could imagine. Different grinds (we had a high-end burr
| grinder in the office too), different packings, different machine
| settings. Not once did we manage to produce a cup that any of us
| considered even remotely drinkable. It was all acidic and awful,
| probably because the machine had never been cleaned since it was
| installed god-only-knows how many years before.
|
| I ended up getting them a Keurig. I got one for myself too. It
| makes a decent cup of coffee, but nothing compared to what you
| find in Italy. It is still a mystery to me how the Italians
| manage to produce such consistently good coffee, but only in
| Italy. When they come to the U.S. they seem to lose the touch.
| Maybe there's something in the water.
| CraneWorm wrote:
| > It is still a mystery to me how the Italians manage to
| produce such consistently good coffee
|
| I thought they use moka pots.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moka_pot
|
| Easy to clean, easy to use, doesn't burn the coffee, like a
| percolator inevitably will.
| diroussel wrote:
| Yes, they do, except they call it a caffettiera. Every house
| in italy I've been to has one or more. This is in the north,
| the south might be different. But it's not the same as an
| espresso machine.
| tomcooks wrote:
| The reason why moka pot is so famous has also to do with
| massive post-war production. Alessi and Bialetti used to make
| moka pots with equipment originally used to produce mortar
| shells for WW2. The main difference between the Alessi and
| Bialetti coffee makers were that the latter used the
| traditional 8 sided shape which aided in screwing-unscrewing.
|
| Renato Bialetti, which I was lucky enough to greet, got his
| ashes put in an oversized moka pot, which was blessed during
| his funeral[0]. He was known for driving some of his factory
| workers out for lunch on Fridays, on his expensive car.
|
| [0] https://www.corriere.it/cronache/16_febbraio_16/funerali-
| bia...
| CraneWorm wrote:
| > got his ashes put in an oversized moka pot
|
| basket or collecting chamber? I hope they didn't brew it
| afterwards...
| castillar76 wrote:
| If you're looking for something better for them/you (and
| ecologically better too--the Keurigs are pretty bad for that),
| try an Aeropress. It's absurdly inexpensive, but makes easily
| the best coffee I've had outside of crazy high-end shops, and
| it's really easy to use. It consistently gets high marks from
| coffee geeks.
| clairegraham wrote:
| I have an Aeropress, Chemex, and a Hario V60 and I still
| prefer the Aeropress simply because it's so consistent (it is
| also the best one to travel with). When you get a great cup
| on the Chemex/V60, it's really nice, but I find it's harder
| to nail down a consistently great cup of coffee every single
| time on the others.
|
| I think Aeropress easily rivals or beats a cup of coffee I've
| had a "great" coffee shops, if you use good beans. But even
| grocery store coffee is better in the Aeropress than a cheap
| auto-drip machine.
| castillar76 wrote:
| Agreed: the consistency is really solid. I've never had a
| bad cup of coffee from my Aeropress, even when using cheap
| beans. I do still have a drip coffeemaker at home (weirdly,
| Oxo makes a terrific drip coffeemaker that's not expensive
| but really good), but that's mostly because I fix coffee
| for three-to-four people in the morning so a full carafe is
| a lot easier than a cup at a time. If I'm just making it
| for me, Aeropress all the way.
| w3ll_w3ll_w3ll wrote:
| Yeah it's the water.
|
| https://medium.com/@sonicaghi/why-is-espresso-in-america-so-...
| toohotatopic wrote:
| Those Italians in your coworker space, were they baristas or
| office workers? I would expect that Italians in Italy also
| cannot produce perfect espresso unless they made it their
| profession.
| pengaru wrote:
| You don't understand Italian culture.
|
| I grew up in an Italian household with both parents Italian
| immigrants and have a large extended Italian family.
|
| It would have been an embarrassment to be unable to make a
| quality espresso.
|
| I never drank any coffee/espresso beverages growing up and it
| was seen as a rejection of my family's culture, yet despite
| not consuming it I still was taught how to make espresso and
| would do it regularly for my parents.
|
| Cuisine is a big part of Italian culture. We didn't go to
| restaurants because they made food better than we did at home
| because they were professionals, we'd go to give my mother a
| break and every time it was like the restaurant was on trial
| with my mother pointing out every damn thing that was done
| worse than had she made it.
|
| Edit:
|
| Just wanted to add that having been raised in that
| environment where authentic home-cooked delicious food was
| made every day, I can't go to Italian restaurants anymore,
| not in the US. It's completely ruined it. There were no
| professional cooks or barristas under that roof, just OG
| Italians.
| lisper wrote:
| They were all software engineers.
| atombender wrote:
| It's odd that you went from one end of the spectrum (trying to
| refine your technique and failing) to the complete opposite (a
| Keurig). Surely there's a middle ground.
|
| For example, the Rancilio Silvia [1] is known to be one of the
| best and most tweakable/hackable home machines for manually
| brewed espresso. It can make great Italian espresso out of the
| box, but there's also a healthy community around it that hacks
| the internals to brew at better temperatures and so on. It's
| also very affordable.
|
| Personally, I have a Jura Ena, because I like just pressing one
| button to get my coffee, and it's fantastic.
|
| [1] https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/rancilio-silvia-
| espresso-m...
| 01100011 wrote:
| I used to have a Gaggia Classic with an updated steam wand
| that did pretty well. I think it ranks well against the
| Racillio and is cheaper. It's basically the cheapest decent
| machine you can buy, AFAIK. People also hack it, with PID
| controller mods and such.
| gregkerzhner wrote:
| I don't know much about espresso, but the pourover coffee I
| make at home is certainly much higher quality than a Keurig
| machine. The beans are the most important part - you should get
| them roasted within the last few weeks.
|
| Even the fanciest pourover funnel costs only 50 dollars, but
| you can certainly get by with a cheap plastic one for a few
| bucks. If you want to go full hipster, you will also need a
| temperature controlled electric kettle, and a scale to exactly
| portion out your coffee.
|
| Then of course there is the grinder. If you are patient enough
| to hand grind, you can get a Hario ceramic manual grinder for
| $50 that produces a high quality grind. Otherwise, a quality
| electric grinder will be more expensive.
|
| All and all, a hipster pourover setup will cost you less than
| $500 if you go all in. I don't use a scale, a temperature
| control, or a fancy grinder - I just use a cheap grinder and
| eyeball my beans, while pouring boiled water over them, so my
| whole setup cost me about $50 dollars. That coffee still blows
| the pants off Keurig any day of the week, and I can compost my
| filters so I am not filling a hole in our planet with a tiny
| plastic cup every time I want a coffee.
| lisper wrote:
| I ended up with both a Keurig and a Cuisinart DCC-450BK. The
| Cuisinart makes better coffee (despite its incredibly cheesy
| construction), but the Keurig is faster so I'll typically use
| one in the morning and the other in the afternoon. I've found
| I don't get a lot of value from high-end beans. My favorite
| coffee is Seattle's Best Post Alley Blend. But my coffee
| heart will always be in Italy. (Actually, Philz is pretty
| good too.)
| sevencolors wrote:
| Last month I got a simple pour over setup that's not full-
| hipster. Coffee is 10x better than a Keurig or instant
| coffee. Both of which i have. Maybe it's partially being
| trapped in house but it's bordering on better than the coffee
| shops nearby.
|
| Setup:
|
| Hario v60 ~ $20
|
| Pour Over Filter ~ $10
|
| Grinder - $30 (already had)
|
| Kitchen Scale - $10 (already had)
|
| This guide is a good start:
| https://www.stumptowncoffee.com/brew-guides/v60
| gregkerzhner wrote:
| Nice, thats a good guide!
|
| I dare say that if you are capable of following
| instructions, and have $15 to invest into a freshly roasted
| bag of beans from a coffee shop, then your coffee is
| exactly the same quality as to what you would get from a
| high end coffee shop. The only difference is that the
| coffee shop will charge you up to 5 dollars for a fancy
| pourover, while your 15 dollar bag of beans will last you
| several weeks.
| karatestomp wrote:
| > The beans are the most important part - you should get them
| roasted within the last few weeks.
|
| That's the key. When I buy mid-range beans (usually what I do
| --the good stuff's expensive) my pourovers are really just
| manual drip coffee. Fine, but just... coffee. When I use
| _really_ good beans, though? It 's a whole different drink.
| All kinds of nuance and delicate flavors.
|
| The tiers I've found are basically: truly bad coffee; a very
| large range of coffees that pretty much all just taste like
| "alright coffee" and for me this goes as low as Kirkland-
| brand ground coffee and as high as... well, the "nicest"
| whole-bean coffee Costco sells, differentiated mostly by
| bitterness levels or burntness; and then the _good_ stuff
| that doesn 't even really belong in the same category of
| product as the rest, purchased in small quantities, very
| freshly roasted.
|
| It could well be that Italy's espresso beans are much higher
| quality at the same price than those in the US. That's the
| case for some other things in other countries--rich ones,
| even, not just places with much lower GDP/capita (I still
| don't get why we can't seem to bake a good loaf of bread at a
| reasonable price, which also has the effect that our
| sandwiches tend to either suck or be really expensive--see
| also, cheese).
|
| > and a scale to exactly portion out your coffee.
|
| You're gonna want a scale if you do much cooking, anyway.
| Especially baking.
| omnimus wrote:
| As european coffee fan Italys coffee is just overrated. The
| lowest quality, might be a bit better than elsewhere but
| best rosteries and cafes are generally in London, Berlin
| (number of great cafes and roasters there are of the
| charts) and scandinavia. But you will find really good
| cafes in any bigger city (including Italy). And even
| quality roasters are decentralized.
|
| The problem is not so much roasting but getting the beans.
| Many roasters just wont get to the best stuff from Africa
| because of limited supply so it makes sense that richer
| countries snatch the material because they can charge more.
|
| I can imagine US also can afford the best beans so i bet
| the high high quality is pretty top notch but ive never had
| US coffe in my life.
| gregkerzhner wrote:
| I think both with coffee and beer there are two classes
| of establishment - the average city cafe or bar, and then
| the specialty "artisanal" establishment in big cities. My
| guess would be that the coffee at an average Italian town
| square bar is better than the same coffee at a coffee
| shop in Spain or France or the USA. However, it's not
| going to be anywhere on par with a specialty coffee shop
| in Manhattan that has searched the world and handpicked
| its bean flavor profiles to perfection.
|
| It's the same thing with beer and Germany. The average
| beer in a random town brewery somewhere in Germany is
| tastier than a Budweiser, but as a beer lover, I would
| much rather end up at a beer bar with a 100 different
| beers on tap in a place like London or New York.
|
| The interesting twist with Germany is that the same beer
| purity laws that originally allowed them to become a beer
| leader in the world are now holding them back in the
| craft beer revolution.
| notJim wrote:
| From my experience, it's more about culture and
| expectations than anything. You'll occasionally get a
| shop that can stand above its city, but eventually it'll
| regress to the mean. Here in the PNW you can walk into
| any coffee shop and get a good coffee about 50-75% of the
| time. In NYC, I'd say it's more like 10%. I think it's
| because people in NYC don't value coffee very much, or
| care only superficially. On the flipside, even shitty
| bagels in NYC are better than most of what you can get
| here. I hated all the coffee I had in France, but it
| might be because they prefer a bitter cup to be drunk
| with sugar, rather than the black coffee we drink in the
| US.
| omnimus wrote:
| Sad truth is that average Italian town square bar coffee
| will probably be the exact same global shit brand coffee
| as in German town square town. If they are different it
| has to do more with local traditions maybe more skill or
| higher quality machine.
|
| But yeah that also means that there is someone obsesive
| in every bigger city trying to get the best stuff world
| has to offer.
|
| In so many ways the tradition in italy holds it back in
| coffe world and holds Germany in beer world. But even the
| German/Czech beer purity laws are not the real problem
| its the tradition. It's hard to inovate when beer is
| super popular but everybody thinks beer equals lager.
| It's conservatism.
| karatestomp wrote:
| > The interesting twist with Germany is that the same
| beer purity laws that originally allowed them to become a
| beer leader in the world are now holding them back in the
| craft beer revolution.
|
| They can break those rules all they want and just not
| call what they're making "beer", right?
| omnimus wrote:
| Yes. And its not like "craft" beer is somehow harder to
| make than lagers. Largers are actually one of the most
| complicated to brew and smaller German breweries do make
| wonderfuly crazy craft beers.
|
| Besides traditions the craft beer "revolution" is due to
| hops. US climate and innovation brought new hop varieties
| that are crutial. To make craft beer you pretty much have
| to import US hops.
| tigershark wrote:
| Absolutely not. Source: I'm Italian, I live in London,
| been to Berlin a couple of times, in the best case you
| can get something drinkable but nothing comparable to a
| nice espresso in Italy. I was actually surprised to find
| a pretty nice illy coffe in Kobe train station, but then
| I also found a very good Naples pizza in that city.
| wastedhours wrote:
| You often get really acidic brews from speciality roasted beans
| because they err on the side of not pushing through the second
| crack and serve earlier in the roasted life before some of the
| gas has escaped. Were the beans really black and oily or have a
| more browny tinge?
| lisper wrote:
| This was many years ago so my memory of such details is quite
| fuzzy, but to the best of my recollection they were not oily.
| I remember being a little surprised by that.
| theelous3 wrote:
| I found the coffee in italy unremarkable compared to any other
| decent cafe in any of dozen random european countries.
|
| There are three cafes local to me that are better than pretty
| much anything you'd get in italy.
|
| Italian espresso is just... extremely plain. Decent, but
| boring.
| joefourier wrote:
| Your story is very upsetting for people who enjoy espresso.
| Your issue was almost certainly with your espresso machine,
| which likely had severe issues with maintenance.
|
| I grew up with a generic espresso machine (pre-Nespresso, so
| one where you had to grind and compact the beans yourself) and
| I could make a decent cup from the age of 14. This was with
| North-American water and beans of average price and quality.
|
| And now you have a plethora of capsule-based espresso machines
| with identical convenience to a Keurig, from Nespresso to
| Caffitaly.
| kimi wrote:
| Nespresso. That's what Italians drink at home today. Easy
| peasy, always good. Even my relatives in Naples drink it. :)
| lisper wrote:
| Nooooooo!
| kimi wrote:
| You won't believe it. They even queue up at Esselunga to
| buy Starbucks pods for their Nespresso machine....
| lisper wrote:
| > Starbucks pods
|
| NOOOOO!!!
| boris wrote:
| Second that. As much as I want to believe a $10k La Marzocco
| is absolutely essential to good espresso, a $100 Nespresso
| machine and Kazaar roast is the best espresso I've ever had.
| ofrzeta wrote:
| You don't need to spend 10k for good espresso. Get a used
| portafilter machine, a grinder and good beans. I used to
| drink Nespresso but gave up because of the huge amount of
| waste. Now I am happy with my Saeco Aroma (old model,
| bought for 150 euros). Actually I even went back to hand
| grinding with my Hario grinder some month ago. I'll take
| the time and also have some workout :)
| flyinglizard wrote:
| You should try their Inspirazione Napoli roasts if you
| haven't. Wonderful.
| kimi wrote:
| Maybe not "the best" - but for 30 cents a pop, it's so
| easy, and it's always good. Of course what you drink at
| caffe Mexico in Naples is a different thing, maybe a
| different planet; on the other hand,there are whole
| countries and maybe whole continents where your trusty
| Nespresso will brew the best coffee.
| albmoriconi wrote:
| One thing I always found extremely funny is that, while Italy
| is known everywhere for its love of the espresso (don't get me
| started on the incredible amount of Italian and especially
| Neapolitan songs about coffee!), most of us actually do our
| coffe at home using a simple moka pot [1]. Our grandmothers
| mostly used the "napoletana" [2] instead, I don't particularly
| like it but to each their own.
|
| It's such an ordinary, day to day gesture, making a moka when
| you have a little bit of free time, that I have yet to find an
| Italian "coffee geek".
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moka_pot [2]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neapolitan_flip_coffee_pot
| kimi wrote:
| One could also say that someone in Italy who considers any
| coffee worth drinking would be considered insane.
| ykevinator wrote:
| Great read, thanks for sharing, there was just a new oven
| announced, I think it's ooni, which is for this kind of pizza.
| It's an outdoor propane pizza oven. BTW, I'm not sure you can
| cook pizza at 500 degrees in 90 seconds like the article says.
| kellycor wrote:
| I have an Ooni 3 (burns wood pellets). It gets up to 800-900
| degrees. The first pizza cooks in 60 seconds. Each pizza after
| that takes a little longer. It's an impressive little oven.
| cmain wrote:
| Its talking about 500C and you definitely can cook one that
| fast at that temp.
| [deleted]
| auiya wrote:
| Source ingredients that are only available in one location on
| earth, and cook using a device which is very uncommon in most
| households. Sure, easy.
| 34679 wrote:
| I highly recommend the book "American Pie: My Search for the
| Perfect Pizza". I have a digital version and it took my pizza
| game to the next level.
|
| >Master bread baker Peter Reinhart follows the origins of pizza
| from Italy to the States, capturing the stories behind the
| greatest artisanal pizzas of the Old World and the New.
|
| >Beginning his journey in Genoa, Reinhart scours the countryside
| in search of the fabled focaccia col formaggio. He next heads to
| Rome to sample the famed seven-foot-long pizza al taglio, and
| then to Naples for the archetypal pizza napoletana. Back in
| America, the hunt resumes in the unlikely locale of Phoenix,
| Arizona, where Chris Bianco of Pizzeria Bianco has convinced many
| that his pie sets the new standard in the country. The pizza
| mecca of New Haven, grilled pizza in Providence, the deep-dish
| pies of Chicago, California-style pizza in San Francisco and Los
| Angeles--these are just a few of the tasty attractions on
| Reinhart's epic tour.
|
| >Returning to the kitchen, Reinhart gives a master class on
| pizza-making techniques and provides more than 60 recipes for
| doughs, sauces and toppings, and the pizzas that bring them all
| together. His insatiable curiosity and gift for storytelling make
| American Pie essential reading for those who aspire to make great
| pizza at home, as well as for anyone who enjoys the thrill of the
| hunt.
| cmain wrote:
| Mastering Pizza by Marc Vetri is another good one. As well as
| The Pizza Bible by Tony Gemignani.
| airstrike wrote:
| I'm quarantined with two Italians (father-in-law and his mother)
| from Northern Italy and had been planning on making pizza from
| scratch to surprise them but always thought I would make a huge
| mess in the kitchen... from the video, it looks totally
| manageable! The hardest part is having to wait 11 hours to eat
| it!
| kevinmchugh wrote:
| Most things that involve flour are messy until you learn the
| technique. Launching a pizza into the oven can be very messy as
| well
| C19is20 wrote:
| N.Italy: I'm quarantined [well, it's lockdown, really] with two
| Italians, one is my wife (other is son): I'm not allowed even
| remotely near the kitchen. Every mealtime has become a
| stereotypically-italian ultra-marathon. 2.4kg heavier since.
| Yes, i am trying to keep fit but going from 30-200km daily
| bicycle rides (eas 28km commute and back for work) to
| balconia+pasta+pasta sure takes it toll.
| muxator wrote:
| > I'm not allowed even remotely near the kitchen
|
| Ahha! I do not know why, but in every international couple I
| have met (including mine) the Italian part always ends up
| taking over the kitchen.
|
| My non-Italian wife says it is a matter of low adaptability
| to different cooking styles on our part.
|
| Maybe it's true. But she seems to be happy to accept it :-)
| toyg wrote:
| As an Italian, I agree with your wife: my countrymen can be
| downright racist when it comes to food. Often they struggle
| to accept even other Italian food that is not from their
| own city. Then again, that's how Italian cuisine managed to
| survive the industrial revolution whereas others didn't
| make it.
| mrighele wrote:
| In my case it is my significant other which had trouble
| adapting to Italian food. I took over the kitchen anyway
| :-), and I'm learning how to cook Turkish food, which is as
| wonderful as the Italian food.
| perlgeek wrote:
| > The hardest part is having to wait 11 hours to eat it!
|
| That's mostly a matter of perspective. You have to plan your
| Pizza a day ahead, but making the dough on the day before and
| putting it into the fridge doesn't feel as bad as waiting with
| a hungry stomach before food is served :-)
| teekert wrote:
| I'm surprised they use yeast and not sourdough as that would add
| more flavor. Sourdough is surprisingly easy to make and maintain
| btw. During these wfh days especially: Just mix 50grams of flour
| with 50 grams of water and leave in an open container for a
| couple of days, when you see bubbles, put half of is (50gr)
| together with 25gr of flour and 25gr of water, repeat. In a bread
| of 500 grams of meal and 250 ml of water, add 100 gr of your
| bubbling sourdough, kneed, let rise for 3 hours, and overnight
| into the fridge, easy peasy.
|
| Btw, that standard kneeding hook of the Kitchen aid is really a
| pos: Get a better one asap.
| toyg wrote:
| For the daily "HN teaches you to" segment: HN teaches
| Neapolitan pizza master how to make pizza.
| teekert wrote:
| I doubt the pizza master will read HN, if he does, my
| surprise stands and I'd ask him... why not sourdough? ;)
|
| Sourdough is the ancient way, that's why I mentioned it,
| also, it gives me great pleasure to use it for baking. Take
| my comment as you will, perhaps you can derive some value
| from it.
| Krasnol wrote:
| I prefer thicker dough for my pizza.
|
| Those ultra-thin doughs just feel like a cheat.
|
| 550 flour, half cube yeast, a tiny spoon salt and sugar, 150ml
| milk filled up by water to ~275ml fluid. 5 spoons oil. Knead the
| dough and add the fluid. When it's nice textured leave it for the
| rest of the day or at least a few hours.
|
| You get a dough you can load full with whatever you want and
| you'll have enough food for a few days.
| tomcooks wrote:
| The article fails to mention Roman "pinsa", which was commonplace
| a _bit_ earlier than 1700 and is what gave pizza its name.
|
| https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinsa
| toyg wrote:
| Damn, the pinsa is delicious. Very hard to find outside of the
| Roma/Lazio region though.
| tomcooks wrote:
| Yes? You can find it in most big cities around Northern Italy
| toyg wrote:
| Not really - you can find _focaccia_ of various types which
| is close but not quite that.
| tomcooks wrote:
| I know the difference between a focaccia and a pinsa.
|
| Turin, Milan, Bergamo, Brescia and other cities have a
| lot of "pinseria" joints. Ma tipo tante eh. Saluti!
| toyg wrote:
| Maybe they don't cross the Po then, not really seen them
| in Emilia :)
| hellofunk wrote:
| The term "margherita pizza" suggests a different authentic
| meaning compared to the widespread conception.
| cosmodisk wrote:
| Pizza is a dough base with some veg and cheese sprinkled on top
| of it. Lets not make it more special than it needs to be. It's
| not very hard to make it and even first time it will taste good
| enough.Maybe not as good as if some Italian would do it but
| definitely not bad either.
| notechback wrote:
| And why not try to improve the pizza you make at home? Strange
| perspective.
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| Food is just nutrients held in a structure. Let's not make it
| more special than it needs to be.
| C19is20 wrote:
| Your beer thoughts?
| progre wrote:
| Using this exact reasoning I have gone from microbrew IPA:s
| to cheap straight vodka.
| syedkarim wrote:
| Nothing beats Neapolitan-style pizza. If you are ever in Chicago,
| skip the deep dish and instead head over to Spacca Napoli on the
| city's northside.
|
| https://www.spaccanapolipizzeria.com/
|
| Supposedly, the owner shipped in Italian raw materials for the
| clay oven, as well as Italian masons to build it. I don't know
| that the oven is the reason for why their product is so good, but
| it is just miles apart from any other type of pizza in Chicago.
|
| They also have wines that can't be found anywhere else in the US.
| balls187 wrote:
| The first episode of Ugly Delicious on Netflix was about Pizza,
| including Neapolitan pizza.
|
| Chef Chang ordered Domino's pizza to one of the restaurants.
| Hilarious.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2020-04-24 23:00 UTC)