[HN Gopher] (Bay Area) Regional Shelter-in-Place Orders Extended...
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(Bay Area) Regional Shelter-in-Place Orders Extended as Some Rules
Ease
Author : hkmurakami
Score : 42 points
Date : 2020-04-29 21:21 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.sccgov.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.sccgov.org)
| jasonv wrote:
| Read the whole thing... hoping disc golf and dog parks can
| resume. That'd be nice.
| misscorona wrote:
| _All construction activities...will be allowed to resume..._
|
| This seems so arbitrary. Construction noise that you can hear and
| feel from home will be twice as maddening if you are stuck there.
| Speaking as someone whose apartment backs a sub basement deep-dig
| project. After a few days of quarantine one of my neighbors
| shouted some choice words from his balcony at the workers
| starting their banging and whistling at seven in the morning.
| CydeWeys wrote:
| Construction is important. They're literally building future
| homes, offices, and infrastructure. This has a massive outsized
| economic impact going forwards.
| mikeg8 wrote:
| Construction is a massive sector that supports a lot of working
| class families. It is/can be performed with maximum adherence
| to social distancing and use of respiratory masks/PPE is
| already standard practice. I can see how the additional noise
| will be an inconvenience to some, but not allowing construction
| would be, IMO, much more devastating to an already hammered
| economy/work-force. Disclaimer: I work in the construction
| industry.
| GuiA wrote:
| I've definitely been seeing and hearing construction (mission)
| the past month...
| hkmurakami wrote:
| It's been allowed if there was an affordable housing element.
| mikeg8 wrote:
| That was only one of the many exceptions. Public works
| projects, anything supporting an essential business/service
| like healthcare, food production, schools etc. have all
| been allowed throughout the shutdown. And up here in Sonoma
| county, the construction of fire-rebuilds from the 2017
| fires have also been allowed - none are affordable but all
| essential.
| anonAndOn wrote:
| Living in a half-finished renovation, I have to disagree. The
| permitting and inspection process needs to resume so that I no
| longer have to shelter-at-a-construction-site.
| gfodor wrote:
| It doesn't seem arbitrary to me, the thrust of these changes
| seems to be "if its done entirely outdoors, its OK, as long as
| there isn't an obvious, large transmission path."
| wpietri wrote:
| I feel you on the noise, but it makes sense to me. Construction
| is one kind of work where worker density is low and people are
| already used to wearing PPE when needed.
| nsnick wrote:
| Reopening childcare facilities seems very risky.
| trimbo wrote:
| Millions of people can't work on reopening other things without
| reopening those first.
| m463 wrote:
| The other method I've noticed people using is to leave the
| kids with the grandparents.
|
| I wonder if once people go to work/childcare if the kids will
| ever see their grandparents again.
| bittercynic wrote:
| THere'sno denying the importance of child care, but it seems
| just about guaranteed that if there is a case in one family
| it will spread to the other (up to) 11 families in the
| child's "stable group"
| fluxsauce wrote:
| Some are already open, but with strict limitations. It won't be
| the same as re-opening as it was before; there are restrictions
| on capacity (12 max per teacher), sanitizing procedures, PPE
| for staff, guidelines around child health and reasons for
| exclusion, drop-off/pick-up procedures, and so forth. It's also
| not a carte-blanche reopening for all; the focus is still on
| essential workers.
| captaincole wrote:
| Reading between the lines here
|
| "Other activities that can resume under the new order include
| residential moves and the use of certain shared outdoor
| recreational facilities that were previously ordered closed, like
| skate parks, but not others that involve shared equipment or
| physical contact." -- I believe this means they will open up
| parks that were previously closed and allow people to visit
| again.
| wessorh wrote:
| I am utterly impressed by the area's residents inability to push
| back on this order. For your safety you will do what you are
| told. I thought the brainiacs in silicon valley could do math.
| Maybe you can and just forgot how to stand up for your rights. I
| expect all you young sheltering in place to do exactly what your
| government says next time they tell you to do something for your
| safety.
| WorstSauce wrote:
| I'll take the bait. Whilst I'm confused on what rights are
| being violated that need to be fought for. I'm more confused as
| to your comment about doing what the government says to do.
| Your comment paints following orders from the government for
| the sake of safety as an unheard of concept. Why do you think
| driver licenses are required to operate a motorized vehicle? To
| collect fees from license applications? Or to ensure that
| drivers on the road and pedestrians safety isn't in danger due
| to reckless drivers?
| seppin wrote:
| > I'll take the bait.
|
| Don't. The Bay Areas infection numbers, despite their early
| exposure, are excellent. Early and aggressive shelter in
| place orders are to thank.
|
| Everything else is noise.
| sergiotapia wrote:
| The government lies about absolutely everything but _this time_
| they are being honest, so let's all stay at home for 17 months
| and play pikachu or whatever the hell is on the nintendo. baby
| yoda!
| dekhn wrote:
| It looks like the actions taken by the CA government were
| legal, reasonable, and had a very positive impact. What is the
| point of the pushback you're describing- proving a point while
| risking a worse outbreak?
| deminature wrote:
| Rebellion for the sake of rebellion helps nobody. The virus is
| a test of capacity for social cooperation, and California is
| passing with flying colors so far.
|
| Only with total cooperation can you reasonably contain the
| virus - some countries have succeeded at this already, and
| California is not far behind.
| anonAndOn wrote:
| Maybe it's because of the general levels of education, the
| telecommute-ability of many of the jobs and the plethora of
| delivery apps (including some for WEED, bro!) that make many of
| us in the Bay Area agreeable to a Shelter-In-Place order? Or
| maybe we learned from the mistakes of our forebears [0] and
| don't want more people to die if we all chip in? Take your
| pick.
|
| [0]https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/San-
| Francisco-s-...
| mistrial9 wrote:
| > I am utterly impressed ## this is a person's point of view;
| they want to be heard, and perhaps as an influencer
|
| > For your safety you will do what you are told ## it is true,
| that safety line is common to talk to civilians by enforcers,
| even when that is not at all what is happening.. and also when
| it is partially involved, such as evacuation orders due to fire
| danger
|
| > I thought the brainiacs in silicon valley could do math ##
| the person is not a math person, and is somewhat embarassed by
| that, as Silicon Valley math people are clearly a big deal for
| the society right now
|
| > forgot how to stand up for your rights ## the person is
| trying to emphasize your own volition here, not following
| orders blindly
|
| > I expect all you young sheltering in place ## this person
| feels older than most readers here
|
| > do exactly what your government says ## this warning is
| central to the emotion and appeal to individuality
|
| > says next time ## this is not an isolated thing, it will come
| up again and perhaps a lot, over the next years+
|
| > do something for your safety ## safety is an excuse for
| removing liberty
|
| -- It is not well-written or even good judgement necessarily,
| but I took the time to annotate it because these are serious
| things over time, from a legal rights point of view, and also
| huge landmines emotionally for those that deeply value self-
| determintation.
|
| This reply does not support or reject the post content -- it is
| more to say, look at this, do not dismiss it quickly.
| nemothekid wrote:
| What are you even trying to say? Would you drink bleach if the
| government said it was bad for you just to stick it to the man?
| battery_cowboy wrote:
| Several of them did that recently.
| tinus_hn wrote:
| Well not _all_ of the government said it was a bad idea
| SpicyLemonZest wrote:
| The area's residents are generally treating the order as a
| strong suggestion, which I think is the right model. I don't
| know anyone who hesitates to go visit family or a close friend
| when they feel they really need to. I was a lot more concerned
| about overreach before reading the linked post; if the
| government has specific goals they're working towards, and
| they're willing to loosen things up for safer businesses in the
| meantime, I'm pretty okay with the status quo for another
| month.
| supernova87a wrote:
| I guess the longer term question is --
|
| As mentioned in the daily governor's briefing, there is some kind
| of 2D matrix (or map) of places vs. types of activities or
| businesses that can be incrementally allowed to open or get to
| different levels of restrictions lifted. (or I hope this is the
| case, and not just a talking point)
|
| How are people to know / track this? Is there some visual
| dashboard that everyone can refer to daily and hopefully have
| consistent definitions to know whether their business is covered?
| Press conferences (and press releases in inevitable text form)
| are an inefficient method having to speak the words of each
| change in circumstance as this continues to evolve. New Zealand
| seems to have a clear system of Level 1/2/3/4 that everyone has
| the definitions of.
|
| This is going to have to go on for months, remember.
| discgolf187 wrote:
| > Whether we have the capacity to investigate all COVID-19 cases
| and trace all of their contacts, isolating those who test
| positive and quarantining the people who may have been exposed.
|
| We're all going to be inside for a long time ...
| vkou wrote:
| We have 20 million unemployed Americans, many of whom are
| currently getting paid to sit at home and play Animal Crossing.
|
| Surely, a well-functioning society would figure out how to
| employ some of them to be contact tracers. Why hasn't this
| happened yet?
| baggy_trough wrote:
| State incompetence at all levels.
| vkou wrote:
| What makes you think that to be the cause?
|
| Surely, in a country with over four thousand state, county,
| and major city governments, there have to be a few who are
| competent.
|
| Voters across so many different regions, across so many
| different levels of government, can't be so consistently
| incapable of electing competent officials. There has to be
| more to this.
| paxys wrote:
| You are touching upon a real problem here. America hasn't had
| excess labor for decades now, and so there are no systems in
| place to rapidly mobilize it. Governments in countries like
| China and India can scale from zero to millions of temporary
| employees for any project or effort in a matter of days. Even
| if San Francisco wants to pay people to stand at every
| intersection of the city and conduct tests, it will be months
| before they can even fill out the employment forms and
| finalize the logistics.
| [deleted]
| usaar333 wrote:
| We're more or less already there:
|
| https://abc7news.com/bay-area-coronavirus-update-california-...
| wpietri wrote:
| Down toward the bottom they have a link to 5 indicators that they
| will be using to evaluate progress:
| https://www.sccgov.org/sites/covid19/Pages/bay-area-health-o...
|
| I like that they have clear numerical targets for all of them.
| newacct583 wrote:
| Yeah, this seems to be about the right direction. California as
| a whole (I don't have access to Bay Area data specifically) is
| clearly at a relatively stable peak, but the new infection rate
| hasn't dropped much and there's comparatively little room for
| error.
|
| Other states are looking better[1]. Vermont, Alaska, Montana
| and Hawaii are all well below their peak infection rates and
| still dropping. Those are the places that should start relaxing
| rules earlier.
|
| [1] Some are looking much worse, of course. Watch Nebraska in
| particular: their new infection rate has been growing at close
| to 10% per day for almost three weeks, and at that rate they'll
| be at a New York scale outbreak in just two more. I haven't
| seen any coverage of what's going on there (i.e. whether it's a
| specific local outbreak like the Smithfield one in SD).
| r00fus wrote:
| Vermont and Montana are sparse states so not surprising.
| Hawaii - that is interesting. Are those numbers accurate?
| CydeWeys wrote:
| People give too much weight to overall sparsity/density,
| discounting how much human behavior has a role in creating
| personal density even in seemingly sparse areas. You can
| see massive infections in very sparse rural areas so long
| as people are congregating and not taking precautions. That
| seems to be what's happening in Nebraska.
|
| Behavior matters more. Here in Manhattan we're past the
| peak solely because of changes in behavior. It doesn't
| matter how sense the built environment is when most people
| are barely leaving their homes.
| usaar333 wrote:
| Bay Area has dropped significantly:
| https://covid-19.direct/metro/BayArea
|
| Santa Clara has dropped even more significantly:
| https://covid-19.direct/county/CA/Santa%20Clara. It's at 10
| cases/day/million now (3% test positive rate), below even
| Germany who is opening schools.
| usaar333 wrote:
| Interesting metrics.
|
| Indicator 1 (cases) and 2 (hospitalization) are clearly met.
|
| Indicator 3 (test capacity) has a very aggressive target. 200
| tests a day per 100k? Why must it be this high? (Germany by
| comparison, opening schools now, is at 80 per 100k). Santa
| Clara County is already at a 3% positive rate week to date
| (Korea level during their Feb epidemic)
|
| Indicator 4 (case investigation) status is not disclosed but I
| would guess is met or close to met in Santa Clara county given
| how steep the drop-off has been in cases and confirmation by
| other counties (Contra Costa). Of course, it gets harder to
| contact trace as you ease restrictions.
|
| Indicator 5 is a bit fuzzy - supply under what hospitalization
| assumptions?
| valuearb wrote:
| 3) might be linked to cases per million and relative growth
| rates. Germany has roughly 400 active cases per million,
| California has about 1,000, and I wouldn't be surprised if
| the Bay Area is well above CA as a whole given its density.
| usaar333 wrote:
| Bay Area is well below CA as a whole. Cases have grown by
| ~375/million in last 14 days to proxy for "active" cases.
| Santa Clara County's growth is only ~235/million
| contemporary343 wrote:
| Interestingly, LA county is nearly at that target. The public
| health system (excluding internal test capabilities at
| hospitals etc) can do 16K tests/ day for a population of 10
| million. So about 160 tests a day/ 100 K.
| SpicyLemonZest wrote:
| The Bay Area counties included here are all pretty dense, so
| it makes sense that they'd want to have more test coverage
| per capita than a full country might need.
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