[HN Gopher] Whale fall
___________________________________________________________________
Whale fall
Author : maze-le
Score : 419 points
Date : 2020-05-17 11:42 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
| benwerner01 wrote:
| Biologists reacting to a Whale Fall discovery:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZzQhiNQXxU
| [deleted]
| zomglings wrote:
| Was fascinated by the bone eating worms and their symbiotic
| relationship with the bacteria that digest the fats and oils
| from bone.
|
| Osedax: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osedax
|
| Thanks for the video!
| baxtr wrote:
| Odly, this reminded me of the classic honey badger video...
|
| https://youtu.be/4r7wHMg5Yjg
| Sharlin wrote:
| Their excitement made me so happy!
| FartyMcFarter wrote:
| I'm guessing you're not a whale?
| Sharlin wrote:
| I mean, I'd love to have my body be so useful after I die.
| exolymph wrote:
| Oh no. You made a joke. Don't worry, you'll be punished.
| p1esk wrote:
| _you made a bad joke_ FTFY.
| mudita wrote:
| Yes! Something that touched me a lot was also that they
| showed excitement together with some very real competence and
| detailed knowledge.
| jcims wrote:
| If you enjoy this at all, you may want to subscribe. The
| channel is always like this. Fantastic stuff.
| notRobot wrote:
| That was incredible! Thanks for sharing!
| MrJagil wrote:
| Tremendous. Are there any great deep sea docs out there?
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| Blue Planet I and II are top quality.
| BurningFrog wrote:
| They _really_ are!!!
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| At least for the second one, they talked about how they
| invented new camera equipment and imaging techniques.
| Amazing work!
| aphroz wrote:
| I really loved hearing them talking in meters
| dredmorbius wrote:
| But no rhyme.
| EndXA wrote:
| I found this video for those who want a visual example of what
| this can look like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZzQhiNQXxU
| simonkafan wrote:
| I've never heared of this term before and it's interesting to
| read people's interpretation before they knew what it means.
|
| I thought this may be a colloquial expression of IT
| infrastructure admins when all their Docker hosts suddenly fail.
| TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
| I initially thought it might have something to do with _high
| roller_ [1] gamblers.
|
| 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_roller
| unityByFreedom wrote:
| I don't get it, why is a wiki article #1 on HN?
| ddevault wrote:
| > On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting.
| That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to
| reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that
| gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.
|
| From https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
|
| Note that, in general, comments like yours are not appreciated
| here.
| octocop wrote:
| Totally agree, ideas like this is why i read hacker news
| gus_massa wrote:
| I agree. From a recent comment of dang:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22990237
|
| > _A Wikipedia link to something obscure, which most readers
| won 't have heard of before, about which there isn't
| necessarily a good general-purpose article or blog post out
| there, can be a great HN submission._
| dang wrote:
| See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23117614 and
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23089041.
| Symmetry wrote:
| Proximately, because it's really interesting. A step beyond
| that whale falls were mentioned in a good recent SSC post on
| slack using them as an example of a situation where suddenly
| there's a lot of slack in some creatures' existences.
|
| [1]https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/05/12/studies-on-slack/
| proto-n wrote:
| Just what I wanted to link, highly recommended reading to
| anyone with the time.
| graphpapa wrote:
| SSC also uses the a whalefall event as a very effective
| analogy in this older post:
|
| https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/
|
| Which was the first thing to come to mind when I saw this
| post
| milesvp wrote:
| I almost knee jerk downvoted you, then decided to give you the
| benefit of the doubt. You should know, that if a wiki article
| makes it to the front page on HN, then it is almost guaranteed
| to be interesting. My experience is that more often than not it
| was worth at least reading the first paragraph.
|
| HN is a place I turn to to feed my curiosity, and really
| appreciate that it's not just tech/startup content that makes
| it's way here.
| dang wrote:
| Other commenters gave great answers, but I'll add that a
| comment like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23212386 on a
| submission is a good sign, since it shows just the sort of
| intellectual curiosity-gratification HN exists for.
|
| There was a similar-but-different discussion at
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23087284 if anyone wants
| more.
| mmhsieh wrote:
| I don't think this post deserves downvotes because it is a good
| question.
|
| I think few people really think of what happens when a whale
| dies over deep ocean. It apparently has huge nonlinear effects.
| That is pretty cool in its own right, but there are some
| practical reasons why many HN readers may like this.
|
| Most of us working in areas where there is a complex interplay
| of technology, competition, big economic actors, small economic
| actors, evolutionary incentives, multiscale processes, etc.
| Whale falls map just enough on what we do such that it is a
| fresh starting point in thinking about the enterprises and
| industries in which we work, and just imprecisely enough such
| that it can spark some new thinking about things that we are
| working on that we might have missed before.
|
| I used to work for a multibillion dollar enterprise that is
| averse to public embarrassment. Already I am re-thinking of
| what really happens when a dying megaproject is sent off to
| quietly die without canning all of the people, some of which
| are actually talented and creative.
| amelius wrote:
| I'm just glad that plastic floats.
| pletnes wrote:
| Not all plastic does. E.g POM, used in car parts and other
| durable products. Mass density ~1.4x water.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyoxymethylene?wprov=sfti1
| xwdv wrote:
| Is it possible to do falls for other creatures? For example, a
| Human fall, where instead of being buried when you die you are
| lowered into the ocean and allowed to fall deep into its depths,
| where you become a new ecosystem.
|
| Or perhaps you wouldn't make it all the way down because you'd
| get eaten all at once by some larger creature? Or destroyed by
| pressure?
| goatherders wrote:
| That is among the more fascinating things I've read in a long
| time.
| grenoire wrote:
| This makes me wonder whether or not by overfishing (and many
| other economic activities) at the upper layers of the oceans we
| have caused significant ecological destruction at the lower
| layers. How far does the domino effect go?
| xchaotic wrote:
| It's mentioned in TFA - up to 30% of biomass
| BeeBoBub wrote:
| Whale fall described in chapter 81 of Moby Dick:
|
| _Now, this occasional inevitable sinking of the recently killed
| Sperm Whale is a very curious thing; nor has any fisherman yet
| adequately accounted for it. Usually the dead Sperm Whale floats
| with great buoyancy, with its side or belly considerably elevated
| above the surface. If the only whales that thus sank were old,
| meagre, and broken-hearted creatures, their pads of lard
| diminished and all their bones heavy and rheumatic; then you
| might with some reason assert that this sinking is caused by an
| uncommon specific gravity in the fish so sinking, consequent upon
| this absence of buoyant matter in him. But it is not so. For
| young whales, in the highest health, and swelling with noble
| aspirations, prematurely cut off in the warm flush and May of
| life, with all their panting lard about them; even these brawny,
| buoyant heroes do sometimes sink._
| echelon wrote:
| It might be me personally, but I can't stand old, long-winded
| and effervescent writing. My eyes start to jump around in it,
| and I can't maintain focus. It makes me wonder how our writing
| and media will be perceived in a hundred or more years.
|
| Entire patterns of thought become antiquated as our
| communication wiring adapts to the ever increasing pace of
| society. Social media is driving dopamine hits from shorter and
| shorter forms of engagement.
|
| It's amusing to think that Harry Potter might one day read like
| an opaque relic.
| hprotagonist wrote:
| don't go online for a week and try again.
|
| your brain will click right in.
| dang wrote:
| See also from 2015: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10657034
| tsjq wrote:
| this line is so sad. yet another damage caused by humans:
|
| >It has been suggested that the whaling industry has had an
| effect on the biological pump through the elimination of many
| large whales, reducing the amount of whale falls. The effects of
| this on benthic whale fall community assemblages is not well
| understood.[24] However, it is suggested that the removal of
| large whales might have reduced the total biomass of the deep sea
| by more than 30%.[24] Whales stored massive amounts of carbon
| that were exported to the deep sea during whale fall events.
|
| >Whaling has thus also reduced the ability of the deep sea to
| sequester carbon.[24] Carbon can be sequestered for hundreds to
| thousands of years in the deep sea, supporting benthic
| communities.[24] It is estimated that, in terms of carbon
| sequestration, each whale is equivalent to thousands of
| trees.[25]
| [deleted]
| pax wrote:
| Somebody laid a joke there:
|
| > In the past three years whale fall sites have come under
| scrutiny, and new species have been discovered, _including
| potential whale fall specialists_
| lukas099 wrote:
| I was confused by this statement at first, too. I thought it
| meant 'specialists' as in 'scientists who study whale falls'.
| But I believe it actually means species that specialize in
| living in whale falls.
| eevilspock wrote:
| I used to want my body or ashes buried under a newly planted
| tree.
|
| If it weren't for the expense and trouble this would cause my
| loved ones, I would now ask for a burial at sea into the abyss^.
| So poetic in word and effect.
|
| ^abyssal zone
| popol12 wrote:
| Funny, I watched an episode of << Our planet >> called << Deep
| waters >> yesterday that is quite related to this article. Life
| at these depths is really fascinating.
| quickthrowman wrote:
| Also from the BBC/Attenborough, there's an episode of _Blue
| Planet II_ which shows a whale fall and the subsequent process
| of consumption by different species that follows.
|
| I agree, it's fascinating!
| ctoth wrote:
| I cannot speculate to the author's reason for submitting this
| article, but it is interesting to conceptualize our recent
| civilizational advancements as a Whale Fall made possible by
| cheap and abundant energy. What happens when we run out of whale
| to eat?
| schoen wrote:
| I imagine that the submitter, like me, might have heard about
| it from the link a few days ago in
|
| https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/05/12/studies-on-slack/
| [deleted]
| haukur wrote:
| While not exactly the same, the concept of "whale drift" has
| existed in Icelandic law [1] for almost 8 centuries, and still
| applies today. It specifies to whom a whale carcass would belong
| to, depending on the situation, and so forth. The concept of
| "whale drift" also exists in the Icelandic language, and is used
| to point out an event as a stroke of great luck.
|
| [1] Hvalreki (whale drift) in Icelandic law, from Jonsbok in
| 1281: https://www.althingi.is/lagas/150b/1281000.401.html
| mike_n wrote:
| One reads stories of pork/etc carcasses that aren't being
| processed right now, perhaps we could ship those onto barges and
| into the ocean and dump them overboard to seed new pockets of
| offshore life on the sea floor.
| [deleted]
| tsjq wrote:
| good point, yes. what about the loads of hormones and
| antibiotics pumped into these? would we want those also to
| enter the ocean floor biology ?
| FillardMillmore wrote:
| How could we dump it to the bottom without surface-dwelling
| scavengers tearing through the carcass?
| Drdrdrq wrote:
| Besides, when does anything that we try to do to improve the
| nature, actually help it? Besides limiting our access to it,
| of course.
| FillardMillmore wrote:
| That's somewhat fatalistic and cynical, but there's a
| kernel of truth in your sentiment. We have of course done
| good and meaningful work when it comes to environmental
| protections and preservation - sure, we could argue that
| perhaps we haven't done enough and should do more, but the
| effort is there.
|
| I'm not sure if our primary goal in "improving nature" is
| to help "nature" or simply keep nature sustainable for
| humans and future humans.
| samatman wrote:
| From what I've been able to gather, scuttling ships to
| provide artificial reefs works: it increases the surface
| area of part of the ocean, which in turn leads to an
| increase in bio-density and species variety.
|
| Note that this is a vague impression of a topic I know next
| to nothing about; I could easily be wrong here.
| crispyporkbites wrote:
| Torpedo them down there
| jondubois wrote:
| This is just like the economy. When a big economic whale falls,
| it creates opportunities for new smaller entities to evolve by
| feeding on its carcass.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Coal, oil, and gas.
| appleiigs wrote:
| The govt doesn't allow economic whales to fall/fail.
| zaroth wrote:
| This would be really neat if it actually happened!
|
| I think we usually see two distinct failure modes; either a
| company rots from the inside and loses a significant portion of
| its peak value before finally succumbing to an acquisition, at
| which point the single acquirer picks their bones dry. Or a
| massive company fails in a spectacular fashion, like we might
| see with some airlines in the next few months, but isn't it
| also true that either they will restructure in bankruptcy or a
| large single competitor will come and sweep them up?
|
| I guess the difference is that there's nothing in the ocean
| that can devour a whale in one bite, the only option is for
| many very smaller creatures to feast on it over a long time
| period. TFA also mentions a crucial factor is the whale needs
| to fall in the deep sea, coastal water falls don't result in
| the same effect. What would be the analogy for the deep sea
| effect -- to preserve the company over time to allow the
| smaller entities to "feed" on it?
|
| If there was a way to better emulate the natural effect I think
| it would be hugely beneficial to _market_ diversity and
| competition. I think markets continue to evolve in ways that
| support and encourage monoliths. This long-term trend has just
| been massively accelerated over the last couple months.
| isoprophlex wrote:
| Whoa, apparently they are rather important for carbon
| sequestration!
|
| See the section on the impact of whaling:
|
| > However, it is suggested that the removal of large whales might
| have reduced the total biomass of the deep sea by more than
| 30%.[24] Whales stored massive amounts of carbon that were
| exported to the deep sea during whale fall events. Whaling has
| thus also reduced the ability of the deep sea to sequester
| carbon.[24]
| parhamn wrote:
| Very cool. Given the coming monopoly suits, failing businesses
| and the political economic discussions, I can see "whale fall"
| becoming a common analogy.
|
| https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=w...
|
| What happened in October 2019?
| blauditore wrote:
| A whale fall was discovered (top commend in this thread):
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZzQhiNQXxU
| leethomas wrote:
| Thank you, I had recorded the definition of "whale fall" on
| October 16th last year in my log book as I had just learned
| about it, but I couldn't remember from where or how.
| octocop wrote:
| I was thinking about this as well, Yahoo was basically a Whale
| fall
| alangibson wrote:
| The spacing of them and the specialization of scavengers is
| surprising.
|
| When I woke up this morning, I had no idea that deep sea whale
| carcases would constitute an entire hidden global ecosystem, but
| that's just another day on HN I guess.
| nck4222 wrote:
| I had the same thought, which made me think how little we know
| about the ecosystems on earth, which made me think it's even
| more important to protect the environment. We destroy things
| before we even know they exist.
| joyj2nd wrote:
| Here you see an animation of a falling whale...
| https://giphy.com/gifs/fat-anS1ZNfpzXSjm
| mercurialsolo wrote:
| What's a whale fall equivalent in internet lore? Yahoo?
| asah wrote:
| old ISPs and social networks, which are recycled for their
| users.
| SydneyPumpkin wrote:
| Whale fall = bitcoin jargon for large market swings
| octocop wrote:
| The word whale is pretty common in econ slang
| SydneyPumpkin wrote:
| Don't understand why people are down voting me for this... No
| sense of humor in HNews...
| [deleted]
| mongol wrote:
| I thought first the article would be about the falling whale in
| Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
| smoyer wrote:
| I read it as "Fail Whale" ... between aging eye-sight and on-
| and-off-again dyslexia, I didn't really stand a chance.
|
| OTOH ... awesome article - thanks for sharing!
| CRASCH wrote:
| I read "whale fail". I expected an insightful article on the
| failure of large software projects. smh.
| cproctor wrote:
| And I thought it was going to be about Zynga's monetization
| strategy.
| dylan604 wrote:
| All your data are belong to us? That strategy?
| oaiey wrote:
| I thought it was about a gamer whale failing.
| cocktailpeanuts wrote:
| Came here having misread the title as "Whale Fail" and thought
| it would be about some early days of Twitter where they
| displayed whales when the server went down.
|
| But actually learned something very cool!
| Jaruzel wrote:
| To me, 'Whale Fall' makes think of the Hitchhikers Guide to
| the Galaxy, when the Heart of Gold invokes it's infinite
| improbability drive to avoid incoming missiles and said
| missiles turn into a pot of Petunias and a Whale, with both
| then falling towards the nearby planet at high speed[1].
|
| --
|
| [1] 'I wonder if it [the planet] will be friends with me?',
| thought the Whale.
| dylan604 wrote:
| "Oh no, not again!" To this day, I still wonder why the
| bowl of petunias thought that
| objclxt wrote:
| > I still wonder why the bowl of petunias thought that
|
| It's covered in the third book! (Life, the Universe, and
| Everything)
| Drdrdrq wrote:
| It is an incredible set of books. You can return to it
| years later and find jokes and references that you missed
| in first... few hundred readings (don't judge me :) ).
| [deleted]
| Benjammer wrote:
| Because Arthur Dent keeps killing Agrajag over and over
| again and he reincarnates into various people and
| creatures that then are killed by Arthur. The pot of
| petunias is one such reincarnation.
|
| The entire character arc is basically Douglas Adams
| taking out his frustration with Jaguar drivers in
| traffic.
| mrlonglong wrote:
| Wasn't there was a film where a sentient missile refuses to
| explode as it wants to live?
| simonh wrote:
| In Dark Star a sentient bomb gets stuck in the drop
| mechanism. One of the crew teaches it existentialism in
| an attempt to stop it detonating, but then it comes to
| believe its the only being in the universe and decided
| "Let there be light".
| vidarh wrote:
| While the sibling comment correctly points out Dark Star
| as the movie, I'd also like to point out Starship Titanic
| - Douglas Adams was involved in the game, based on a
| throwaway line from one of the Hitchhiker novels. Terry
| Jones novelized the game. Both include a talking bomb
| where the plot involves distracting the bomb until it
| looses track and has to start counting down all over
| again.
| michaelcampbell wrote:
| I thought the same, but went back further in time to the
| live-ish news report of the demolition team trying to
| vaporize a dead beached whale back into the ocean using
| construction dynamite.
|
| It didn't go well. Classic news blurb though.
| krrrh wrote:
| Twitter sunk all those countless fail whales only to provide
| a perfect habitat and breeding ground for scavengers and
| bottom feeders. What a perfect metaphor.
| siberianbear wrote:
| Here's what a "Whale Fail" is [1]. In 1970, a whale died near
| Portland, Oregon and washed up on the beach. The local
| authorities decided to blow it up using explosives, with
| awful and unexpected results.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBgThvB_IDQ
| cocktailpeanuts wrote:
| Haha in a sense this is also a "whale fall". In fact, this
| is more of "whale fall" than the original article. The
| whale literally fell from the sky!
| narag wrote:
| Talking about sci-fi references, my first thought was of a
| budong.
| meej wrote:
| A similar phenomenon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurse_log
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2020-05-17 23:00 UTC)