[HN Gopher] MasterClass is seizing its moment
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MasterClass is seizing its moment
Author : gdubs
Score : 55 points
Date : 2020-05-26 20:23 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
| gdubs wrote:
| Interesting article worthy of a discussion. But I also have a
| selfish motive - I've been really intrigued by some of the
| teasers and I'm wondering if people have done any of the courses
| and have an opinion on whether or not it was worth the money.
| Jac21 wrote:
| Which teasers/subjects in particular pique your interest? As an
| amateur musician, I've found it's been well-worth the
| subscription I split with a friend during a recent pricing
| special due solely to having certain classes inspire me through
| some ruts. Otherwise, I'd imagine it'd be a hard sell without
| having a field you're wanting to dig into in mind that doesn't
| already have a bevy of content on the site.
| thrav wrote:
| I've watched the Judd Apatow one with my wife a bit, so it's
| the only one I can comment on, but here's where I think it
| shines:
|
| 1. Exposure to his story. How did he get there. What did it
| take? How long? How did he pay his dues? How did he get lucky?
| How did he make his luck?
|
| If I were a teenager, this would've been HUGE. It isn't a blue
| print, but it gives you an idea of what these people go
| through, and how many years it takes to get where they are.
|
| 2. Exposure to his methods. How does he come up with jokes? How
| does he shape a story? How does he harness inspiration? How
| does he workshop and develop those ideas?
|
| This is valuable to anyone interested in doing what he does.
| It's a playbook for getting started. It has the potential to
| shatter the whole, "I don't even know where to start" barrier.
|
| "Start writing down funny things that happen" is obvious as
| hell, but hearing that's exactly how one of the best in the
| world does it, from the horses mouth, gives it a different
| weight.
|
| 3. It's entertaining. Even if you're not intending to write
| comedy, it's kinda like watching an episode of VH1
| Storytellers. You get to hear great stories about how things,
| that you're intimately familiar with, happened.
|
| 4. Pro-tips. This kinda goes with 3, but there are some real
| gems. He'll say something casually about how he does X, and you
| just think, "duh. Of course that's how I should be doing X.
| Can't believe I never thought of that."
|
| Think about times in your life when you've learned something
| small from a peer and had your mind blown that you've not been
| doing it that way your whole life. Those are peppered
| throughout.
|
| 5. Demystification of the "master". I actually think this might
| be the important thing in all of this. These people are just
| people. They worked hard and put themselves out there. They
| fail a lot; probably more than most.
|
| I had the same feeling arriving in a start up office in Silicon
| Valley from a Texas childhood. I had pulled back the curtain,
| and it was just more people. Sure, they know a lot about
| machine learning, but that's not because they're superhuman,
| it's because they spent the last 10 years (PhD) studying that
| extremely specific topic.
|
| Seeing how human these people are makes me feel like there are
| a lot of people I know who are every bit as capable of writing
| funny things as he is. That doesn't mean it'll be easy for
| them, or that they'll ever reach his level, but it makes it
| feel like if they just reprioritized a few things and did it --
| they might surprise themselves.
|
| ---- So, will he teach you the intricacies of script structure,
| dialog, timing, etc... no.
|
| Will he spark enough creativity and interest that you get off
| your butt, start writing some stuff, and go find the content
| that will teach you those things? I think so.
|
| In my mind, Masterclass is like a tasting menu of hobbies /
| alternative professions. It gives you a feel for what's
| involved and what it takes, and then the person can decide if
| that's the rabbit hole they'd like to go down.
| powersnail wrote:
| Depends on what you want to get from the class and what that
| amount of money means to you.
|
| For example, the violin class by Perlman that I took. Judging
| by the content alone, I wouldn't say it's worth $90, since it's
| not that deep, and a lot of the information is online for free
| already.
|
| On the other hand, I can comfortably afford it. I'll happily
| pay that 90+ bucks just to hear Perlman talk about violin for a
| few hours, regardless of the depth.
|
| I'd say the same for the writing courses. Not deep, no special
| secrets, not going to make you a master. But if you just want
| to hear them talk about their own crafts and processes, it's
| also a bearable price.
| andygcook wrote:
| I thought this thread on MasterClass's coordinated distribution
| strategy was interesting and worth reading:
| https://twitter.com/TheCoolestCool/status/126538262872474009...
|
| The fact MasterClass ranks first in Google for "what is a
| shallot?" is pretty surprising.
| oh_sigh wrote:
| How many people who don't know what a shallot is are going to
| drop $80 or whatever on a Gordon Ramsay masterclass?
| esrauch wrote:
| Seems like there's two possible answers where this makes
| perfect sense:
|
| - maybe many people who don't know what a shallot is would
| drop $80 for a Ramsay masterclass (kind of like how Gyms
| primarily profit from non-users).
|
| - that many people who search for "what is a shallot" in fact
| do already know what a shallot is and are interested in
| gaining advanced/deeper information about the subject.
| jaquers wrote:
| can confirm #1, fell for it... edit: not that I don't know
| what a shallot is X-)
| luhn wrote:
| If you're Googling "what is a shallot," it means you don't
| know much about cooking and are trying to learn more. Seems
| like the perfect target market for an online cooking class.
| OJFord wrote:
| I agree with GP though, if you don't know what a shallot
| is, it's not likely you have sufficient _interest_ to _pay
| money_ to learn about cooking.
|
| Obviously it's regional, but from my UK perspective
| shallots are not exotic.
|
| I'm not aware that they even suffer from multiple names as
| do spring/salad/green onions/scallions. Echalions of
| course, but that's a subcategory.
|
| If shallots are unfamiliar, again, UK, you've spent little
| time even in supermarket vegetable aisles or restaurants
| and, surely, are therefore unlikely to actually part with
| cash a cooking class?
| jkhdigital wrote:
| Pretty sure this is what search analytics is for... and
| it's not about whether a particular phrase is the best
| signal, but the _cheapest_ signal.
| fermienrico wrote:
| Every MasterClass series I've watch (I've watched about half a
| dozen), they seem to be more of an entertainment thing than a
| professional class. There is a general lack of rigor and details
| that just can't be conveyed in a single course.
| diehunde wrote:
| I think that's what a masterclass is. If I see a flyer saying
| some X professional musician is giving a masterclass I'm
| assuming it's going to be 2 or 3 hours of just ideas, tips,
| methods and his general vision about music.
| donretag wrote:
| I really do not think the Chris Hadfield series on Space
| Exploration will help you become an astronaut.
| fermienrico wrote:
| Yea! I watched it on a plane and thought it was more of
| Educational Entertainment than anything else. It had a place
| but not as a source of learning.
| danielodievich wrote:
| SNL take on the MasterClass lampooned it perfectly
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U31rKSYX07E.
|
| Having said that, I watched a couple of Neil Gaiman's
| lectures and because I love Neil's work, I loved what he
| had to say.
| Jugurtha wrote:
| I learned a lot about writing better _software_ and product
| development from David Mamet's masterclass on writing
| _screenplays_.
|
| He has a no-bullshit, get to the point, approach that I liked. He
| has points on what should a story accomplish, where the
| responsibilities of a character end, and the nature of the job
| being to entertain, not inform or lecture. It can directly be
| transferable to feature creep, single responsibility, etc.
| seppin wrote:
| I would have thought that MasterClass would struggle because of
| the cultural "anti-expert" zeitgeist we have right now. Glad i'm
| wrong.
| heisenzombie wrote:
| What happens when an immovable "anti-expert" zeitgeist meets an
| unstoppable "pro-celebrity" culture?
| psychometry wrote:
| The fact that they chose Dan Brown of all people to do a writing
| workshop does not inspire confidence.
| kinkrtyavimoodh wrote:
| Why? He is an extremely successful author (whose success is not
| due to gimmicks but literally because of his books being read
| and loved by millions).
|
| I'd love to learn from him.
| mrlala wrote:
| I kind of suck at reading but I can whip through a Dan Brown
| book fully entertained and not constantly struggling. But then
| I try some "real authors" as you would say and I have a bit of
| a hard time.
|
| So which author is better? Not necessarily the one that is more
| difficult to read...
| volkk wrote:
| depends on how you view writing. he might not be your average
| book nerd's cup of tea, but his astonishing success is nothing
| to balk at. i love all sorts of authors, and maybe he might not
| write the best literary works of art, its entertaining as shit
| and i devoured his books in my teenage years.
| runevault wrote:
| They have a LOT of writing classes. Neil Gaiman, David Mamet,
| Judy Blume, Joyce Carol Oates, Billy Collins, Margaret
| Atwood... Yes they have Dan Brown, but if you want to study
| writing there are some fantastic ones (Gaiman, Mamet, JCO,
| Billy Collins, Balldacci were all fantastic)
| lovegoblin wrote:
| Who? The renowned author Dan Brown?
| [deleted]
| kleiba wrote:
| Well, you could either go the route of a Nobel laureate in
| literature that you've never heard of, or for a guy with
| commercial success.
|
| From Wikipedia: _His books have been translated into 57
| languages and, as of 2012, have sold over 200 million copies.
| Three of them, Angels & Demons, The Da Vinci Code, and Inferno,
| have been adapted into films._
|
| It all depends on what your goals are. No-one is forced to take
| any of the offered classes.
| oh_sigh wrote:
| You don't sell 80 million copies by mistake.
| aksss wrote:
| doesn't make you a good teacher, only an exceptional
| anecdote. Which has value, but it is what it is.
| oh_sigh wrote:
| Being a highly lauded author doesn't make you a good
| teacher either. The best writing teachers are probably
| relatively nameless individuals out there at various
| colleges and universities, or maybe even high schools. But
| no one is going to pay for a "masterclass" from them.
| 0898 wrote:
| The Kevin Spacey one is genuinely brilliant. They've taken it
| down, but older accounts like mine still have it.
| davidsawyer wrote:
| What was it about?
| kinkrtyavimoodh wrote:
| "Choosing to live his life as a gay man..."
| surfpel wrote:
| MasterClass is somewhat paradoxical in my opinion. They're
| attempting to reach a wide audience (people who aren't
| technically proficient in the respective fields of say cooking or
| music) but they're framing it as a "masterclass" which is a class
| given by a master of a topic to students who are proficient in
| their topic. Seems like more entertainment than an actual
| masterclass which I would prefer
| munchbunny wrote:
| I've seen similarly named classes taught by university
| professors who were former highly respected practitioners.
| They're often taught as light intro/survey lectures, usually a
| couple hours of lecture. I think that's the type of
| "masterclass" that the brand is named after. In the context
| where I saw these classes, they're very much a sort of
| "edutainment" to either market the university or to give alumni
| a taste of the college academic life they remember.
|
| I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think having
| an unfamiliar subject presented to you in an enjoyable and
| understandable way is actually a really good thing for
| expanding your perspective. But that's very different from
| taking a class to gain proficiency.
|
| Of course there's also the other type of "master class" where a
| master teaches the nuances that set the masters apart from the
| "merely proficient".
| crooked-v wrote:
| > but they're framing it as a "masterclass" which is a class
| given by a master of a topic to students who are proficient in
| their topic
|
| But they're not?
|
| They're using the word as a trademark, sure, but the actual
| service is obviously intended for people of a variety of skill
| levels, as thematically connected by being taught by well-known
| 'masters' (such as the Penn and Teller magic lessons).
|
| In other words, when I buy an Apple computer and it doesn't
| include any apples in the box, that's not 'paradoxical'.
| mandelbrotwurst wrote:
| I don't think that's quite the same. Apples are very
| obviously not computers, while MasterClass's offering is
| extremely similar to what a "masterclass" is, which leads me
| to read it as meaning "we offer a service that maps to what
| our name is".
| bsder wrote:
| > Seems like more entertainment than an actual masterclass
| which I would prefer
|
| Teaching is hard. Just because you are an expert in a field
| doesn't mean you can teach it.
|
| Probably the only one I would actually trust is the Gordon
| Ramsay one. He knows his stuff, _and_ it 's clear he can teach
| it.
| johnsonjo wrote:
| Yeah, I think a true master could technically teach anyone,
| though that isn't always true. Also, if a master teacher
| teaches to a novice it would be widely different than to a
| professional, so, like you, I too have the question who is this
| targeted to? I personally haven't taken a masterclass so I
| wouldn't know. (Not that I wouldn't like to though.) I would
| believe it's the novice though they could have different
| classes for different levels, but you couldn't really prepare
| someone from novice to master in the manner of a few classes. I
| think you can be somewhat proficient, if not highly proficient
| in a new skill quickly say like 80th to 90th percentile of the
| whole world, but to get any further and really excel and be one
| of the best (keywords here are being a master) at something
| takes a lot of skill, knowledge, and determination. I'd say a
| master is generally quite well above 90th percentile of people
| in their field (notice I didn't say the world there).
| kinkrtyavimoodh wrote:
| A true master can teach anyone but not necessarily at the
| same time. This is the same problem that plagues even school
| teaching. Pairing someone who groks the content at a rapid
| pace and comes up with derivative insights with someone who
| struggles to understand the basics is a waste of both
| people's times.
| alasdair_ wrote:
| >I too have the question who is this targeted to? I
| personally haven't taken a masterclass so I wouldn't know.
| (Not that I wouldn't like to though.) I would believe it's
| the novice though they could have different classes for
| different levels, but you couldn't really prepare someone
| from novice to master in the manner of a few classes.
|
| I've had a subscription for about eight months now.
|
| Most of the classes are at the same level that "prosumer"
| hardware is marketed at: advanced amateur or beginning
| professional.
|
| For example: Daniel Negranu (a poker pro) has a very good
| class on poker. At no point does he explain how to play the
| game or what terms like "on the button" mean - that's all
| assumed knowledge. The target user is a player who can play a
| solid game already and hold their own in tournaments, perhaps
| without actually winning the final table.
|
| Thomas Keller's (a famous chef) masterclass is similar: at no
| point does he explain what a shallot is or how to hold a
| chef's knife (obscure, seldom-used hooked knives ARE
| explained if they come up), but he does go into a lot of
| precise detail about how to cook certain dishes and exactly
| how to identify the freshest produce or tell when the lamb
| shank you are braising is done.
|
| >I'd say a master is generally quite well above 90th
| percentile of people in their field.
|
| The quality of instructors is truly amazing - easily the top
| 0.1% - most are world-famous masters of their art. Things
| like acting lessons from AAA celebrities, dancing lessons
| from the lead ballerina at one of the top companies in the
| world, music lessons from multi-platinum artists etc.
|
| This sounds like a giant ad for masterclass. I just happen to
| really like their content and am definitely not paid by them
| in any way :)
|
| Hope this helps!
| toasterlovin wrote:
| > The quality of instructors is truly amazing - easily the
| top 0.1% - most are world-famous masters of their art.
| Things like acting lessons from AAA celebrities, dancing
| lessons from the lead ballerina at one of the top companies
| in the world, music lessons from multi-platinum artists
| etc.
|
| FWIW, the best talent usually do not make the best
| teachers. This is a fact widely remarked upon in the world
| of sports. Knowing how to get _your_ body to do something
| well is a very different skill from being able to get
| _another person 's_ body to do something well.
| ipnon wrote:
| Chris Voss' negotiation class has easily justified the $100 per
| year subscription. Kasparov's chess class is valuable, but it
| wouldn't be worth it on its own. Paul Krugman's economics class
| is interesting but pedantic. It only serves as a basic
| introduction, but does so in a field in which the introduction is
| barely useful. Tyler Cowen's Marginal Revolution University
| course fills the gap between beginner and intermediate economics
| for free.
| hckr_news wrote:
| Hmm will check out the Chris Voss course
| medell wrote:
| What does Voss' class have that's not in his book?
| ipnon wrote:
| Live demonstrations
|
| The book was too abstract for me. Seeing Voss in the act
| allowed me to imitate him.
| Cyclone_ wrote:
| Why on earth does the headline on NYTimes say "only school left"
| as if there are no other online schools running.
| superhuzza wrote:
| >It's the Year 2120. MasterClass Is the Only School Left.
|
| It's a joke prediction about the year 2120, not 2020.
| arielserafini wrote:
| "It's the Year 2120. MasterClass Is the Only School Left."
| galkk wrote:
| I had a chance to watch ~half of Kasparov's class on Masterclass.
| For casual player (1850 lichess in blitz and bullet, 77
| percentile), it was close to useless. Too high level and pretty
| unstructured.
| seppin wrote:
| My experience watching carlos santana's class on guitar was
| similarly disappointing. He just keeps talking about "finding
| your sound" then plays a few notes. Not really helpful.
| bsder wrote:
| The only person I have seen do _really good_ videos for
| guitar is Jimmy Bruno.
|
| And, eventually, even he gave up.
|
| Doing really good videos for training is _really hard_ and
| takes a _lot of work_. Fundamentally, most people good at it
| conclude that online isn 't worth it and that meatspace pays
| better.
|
| Covid has flipped that around for a bit, but I suspect it
| will hold true again within a couple months.
| ssttoo wrote:
| Same with Hans Zimmer. Useless.
|
| However Tom Morello's was cool. Both technical and nerdy as
| well as inspirational. And I'm not a big Rage against the
| machine fan or anything.
| oh_sigh wrote:
| MasterClass in the past has benefited from famous/accomplished
| people feeling they want to "give back" to the world some lessons
| they've learned.
|
| The standard model is something like $100k up front + 30% of
| sales. If someone's net worth is in the dozens of millions or
| more, this really isn't moving the needle, so the major incentive
| has to be the altruism.
|
| However, will people continue to choose to be altruistic on this
| platform, when it is turning the creators into the ultra wealthy?
| One might be less inclined to altruism if you're actually giving
| a +1 to the world but a +50 to a random company who hosts a
| website. Many of the people that have done Masterclasses could
| make an arbitrary individual wealthy and famous (e.g. Spielberg
| could just say "<random no-name filmmaker> is my protege and all
| films I work on will be co-directed by them"). The question is
| how many people are going to make that choice for Masterclass
| when they could just as well host it on their own website, or put
| it on their own channel on youtube, etc.
| ybot wrote:
| I don't actually think the celebrities are contributing purely
| out of an altruistic desire to 'give back'. I think that's
| _great_ marketing by Masterclass, but the primary thing
| celebrities get by associating themselves with Masterclass is
| helping continue to build their own brand. Masterclass has
| positioned its self as "the best in the world teaching their
| craft", so by agreeing to be on their platform a celebrity is
| getting publicity that reinforces the idea that they're the
| best in the world at that thing, and that they're still
| socially/culturally relevant.
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| Not purely. But there are 1000 things they could be doing.
| Taking the time to create thoughtful instructional videos is
| hard. I admire them for sharing what they know.
| aksss wrote:
| > the major incentive has to be the altruism
|
| Sorry, no. The major incentive is keeping one's name
| relevant/established. Think about the Masterclass as an
| advertisement for their personal brand and it will make a
| little more sense to you.
| aksss wrote:
| MasterClass is using celebrity and production value as an
| attractant, but accomplishment in a field does not necessarily
| equate to expertise and certainly doesn't imply any significant
| teaching ability.
|
| MasterClass brings you close to recognized greats, but to an
| extent your learning will be more about _them_ and only
| tangentially about the field of interest. There are some
| MasterClass episodes conveying very practical knowledge -
| typically the cooking ones - but again I'd call this a different
| thing than really learning about cooking (theory, law, etc).
|
| Systemically understanding a field of interest is a different
| endeavor requiring more rigor. The Great Courses product is
| probably the more rigorous (categorically similar) educational
| tool in comparison to MasterClass. It has less production value
| (though more than sufficient) and the lectures are from obscure
| though academically recognized authorities rather than curated
| celebrities.
|
| _IF goal is to:_
|
| Really learn a new field or skill during the pandemic = The Great
| Courses.
|
| Watch autobiopic on recognized authority = MasterClass.
|
| For the record, I have both and am affiliated with neither.
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