[HN Gopher] Forced social isolation causes neural craving simila...
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Forced social isolation causes neural craving similar to hunger
Author : prostoalex
Score : 119 points
Date : 2020-06-07 18:09 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (blogs.scientificamerican.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (blogs.scientificamerican.com)
| Nav_Panel wrote:
| This was Maslow's point from back in the 40s, that there's no
| real distinction between physiological and social hunger, besides
| the fact of an importance hierarchy (one needs to be decently fed
| in order to start caring a lot about sociality, although even a
| person in starvation may care somewhat).
|
| Glad to see it's being neurologically researched as well.
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| We need to ban solitary confinement in prisons.
| rb808 wrote:
| I have a lot more sympathy for animals in the zoo as well.
| djsumdog wrote:
| I have never liked zoos! The animals look so sad. The San
| Diego and Cincinnati zoos are very large and that helps, but
| I still don't enjoy going to them. The reptiles are usually
| fine, but many of the mammals really shouldn't be locked up
| like that. A polar bear swims up to 600km a day in the wild.
|
| I like aquariums. Most fish are fine in a big enough tank;
| turtles too. I avoid aquariums with Dolphins or Whales.
| Considering how much they swim in the while, that seems cruel
| too.
| belltaco wrote:
| In some countries it's illegal to have just one of a kind of
| some animals as a pet.
| rajeevtfi wrote:
| Eric Berne talked about this long time back in 1964 in his book
| "Games People Play"
| Nav_Panel wrote:
| Hah yes the classic "8 stroke American greeting" to prevent
| "spinal shriveling", good stuff.
| phkahler wrote:
| This makes sense to me because I dont think the feeling we call
| hunger is actually our bodies call to eat. I think from an
| evolutionary origin it is supposed to be a call to action. If
| that is so, then social isolation could trigger the same feeling.
| davidw wrote:
| I have been having backyard beers with a friend at a time, at a
| distance, on nice days. Feels safe enough and it is nice to see
| friends!
| SeanFerree wrote:
| Awesome article!
| op03 wrote:
| Cravings are satisfied a thousand different ways these days.
| Social interaction has a lot of competition.
| rb808 wrote:
| Honestly its scary the talk of another year like this. I have a
| family and even with them around living all day in my apt is
| starting to drive me crazy. I'd hate to be living by myself. Its
| a lot like solitary confinement.
|
| My Brother had the bug, had a mild cough for a few days and lost
| his taste. I'm very jealous.
| curiousgal wrote:
| Try spending 2+ months in an 18m2 apartment alone AND under the
| obligation of following courses and studying for exams. Being a
| college student in a French elite school sucks.
| cortesoft wrote:
| It's funny because I am having the opposite issue... stuck at
| home with my wife and two young kids, and what I want is MORE
| alone time. I need daycare!
| [deleted]
| chrisseaton wrote:
| > Honestly its scary the talk of another year like this.
|
| I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting you will not be
| able to leave your house for another year. I think everywhere
| has concrete plans to re-open everything short of mass
| gatherings pretty soon. That's the cautious countries and the
| less cautious countries alike.
| nprz wrote:
| Currently around ~5% of the US has contracted COVID. 60-70%
| of the population needs to become infected in order to gain
| herd immunity. Meaning we're about 7% of the way to herd
| immunity. We still have a long way to go.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| I don't think anyone's saying they're aiming at herd
| immunity any more, are they? The European and North
| American countries opening up, which is all of them, are
| just saying they have the situation generally under control
| enough to relax restrictions.
| nprz wrote:
| I mean it will continue to spread until that percent of
| the of the population is infected. Containment is not
| possible. So right now it's a balancing act of opening up
| the economy and preventing an explosive outbreak. The
| hope is a vaccine will be created soon and a large
| proportion of the population will gain immunity through a
| vaccine rather than just naturally contracting the virus.
| 0xFFC wrote:
| Yes. Those restrictions were from the time we were
| thinking the virus is more deadly than this (1-2% IFR).
|
| Now with more publications, data suggests an IFR of
| 0.1-0.6%. Which is pretty low and does not worth crashing
| the economy.
|
| This does not mean vulnerable people has to pay the price
| no. It is trade off. We have to reopen and go back to
| normal, while helping vulnerable people.
|
| Even some paper suggest far more infections than we
| thought.
| rb808 wrote:
| Yeah I go outside 2-3 times a week already. I just want to
| visit my parents, sit at a proper desk, and have my children
| play with some friends.
| whatshisface wrote:
| The open or closed status of everything has little to do with
| whether or not you should engage in non-essential visits.
| Policymakers do not schedule the virus.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| The 'non-essential' guidance is also being relaxed in all
| locations I've seen reporting on. Most are encouraging
| distanced socialising and return to work.
| whatshisface wrote:
| The non-essential guidance has little bearing on whether
| or not someone should engage in non-essential visits, as
| policymakers do not schedule the virus.
| [deleted]
| tempbi0ps3 wrote:
| It also seems to have little bearing on how essential an
| activity is, and it hastens the ongoing consolidation of
| our economy into a small number of enormous companies.
|
| Personal anecdote: I need a biopsy from a specialist
| surgeon who does not treat respiratory diseases and does
| not reside in a hospital.
|
| Sorry. That's non-essential. I haven't been able to get
| it done, and it's been months. I'm also on COBRA,
| so...clock's ticking.
|
| But if I want to buy a paperback? Well I can't visit my
| favorite local bookstore which is usually quite empty
| (non-essential), but I can go to a packed Walmart or
| order it off Amazon.
| [deleted]
| chrisseaton wrote:
| I don't know what you mean about 'scheduling the virus',
| sorry. Generally people are probably best off listening
| to official advice, not making their own assumptions.
| quickthrowman wrote:
| > I don't know what you mean about 'scheduling the virus'
|
| They're saying just because non-essential restrictions
| have been relaxed doesn't mean you should partake in non-
| essential activities.
|
| I agree with them, but not everyone will.
| dwaltrip wrote:
| The virus alone also doesn't schedule human behavior. I'm
| not sure exactly what you are implying.
| quickthrowman wrote:
| If that is the case, why were non-essential businesses
| shut down and shelter in place orders enacted all over
| the world?
| selimthegrim wrote:
| I guess he can eat the same food all the time now then
| bonestamp2 wrote:
| The one person I know who had covid said they didn't want to
| eat anything. It wasn't just that you lose taste/smell, it's
| that everything tasted/smelled funny.
| colechristensen wrote:
| Is it a permanent loss of taste or do your senses come back
| after?
| stronglikedan wrote:
| Texture is (just/almost) as important as taste!
| obvthrowaway2 wrote:
| Once you get used to protein shakes, you can stomach almost
| any texture.
| ericol wrote:
| More or less for my entire life I've had the idea that my social
| needs were not on par with the rest of the people, and this
| quarantine seems to have proven just that.
|
| Bear in mind _I do_ enjoy social life; when I was living in Spain
| in my 30s (and single) I had a very active social life, and had a
| moderate (~30) amount of friends split in 2 groups with which I
| continuously interacted.
|
| When I left Spain for my place of origin I had only a handful of
| friends, and then I moved to where I live now and have only one
| friend, whom I see sporadically.
|
| Nowadays I mostly interact with my partner and daughter, and the
| people I work with (I've been working remotely for 13 years) and
| to be honest, I have no cravings for social life (Except that I
| miss going for a stroll every once in a while at nights).
| briefcomment wrote:
| Can you really call living with your family isolation? There
| are people out there who live with no one, aren't near family,
| and can't see friends because of the lockdowns.
| kharak wrote:
| This fits me, and I have 0 problems with it. Do I want to see
| my friends again? Yes. But as I don't live in my home country
| anymore, I'm accustomed to only seeing friends and families a
| couple of times a year.
|
| Takes a bit of effort and empathy to remember that I'm an
| outlier and people truly did suffer during lockdown.
|
| I really wonder, how many people are there like me? What's
| the distribution? You naturally hear mostly from social
| people and extroverts. Hope there are some studies going on
| right now.
| ericol wrote:
| Well, guess you are correct here, I can't call my current
| situation isolation.
|
| But there have been times where I've been there (My partner
| tends to go on extended vacations with her mother) and, even
| without quarantine, I've been locked up all by myself only
| going out a couple of times a week only for grocery shopping.
|
| I enjoy reading an investigating things (And for programming
| related discoveries, time gets consumed too fast) probably a
| bit too much, and there are times when even family comes in
| the way.
| [deleted]
| Trasmatta wrote:
| Yep, this me. I haven't been able to see friends or family
| since March 15th. So I haven't even touched another human in
| that long. It's been really bad for my mental health. I have
| a hard time empathising with people who say they've been
| super lonely but still live with family.
| colechristensen wrote:
| I feel you, me too. I also had a relationship fall apart
| late last year and did quite a lot of my own social
| isolating at the time combined with my natural inclination
| to hibernate around the winter solstice because of lack of
| light.
|
| My closest friends also moved away in part motivated by the
| situation.
|
| I really don't remember the last time I interacted with
| another human who wasn't selling me food or through a
| computer or phone (which helps of course but is no
| substitute).
|
| There are probably a lot of us out there. If it weren't for
| a couple of cat monsters I probably would have lost all of
| my marbles by now.
| vmception wrote:
| Yeah, similar boat. I was content with the arrangement for
| about two months. I finally relaxed my shelter in place a
| little before memorial day. The point of living in a
| desirable area and within a city was to randomly meet
| people that also had their life together, while working on
| the career and financial circumstances that allow you to do
| this.
|
| With SIP, everything closed, and ongoing social distancing
| none of that is possible and you're also cut off from other
| social circles if you hadn't locked in a core friend group
| or significant other.
|
| I could really the see value of these areas plummeting much
| harder than before. Even when thinking of the protests as
| having some allure for being social, many of the people are
| from surrounding suburbs coming in for the action, whereas
| the wealthy transplants have already left indefinitely.
|
| I don't get the impression that those with family are
| overwhelmingly content. But some have routine at this point
| and aren't considering the social starving that people in
| different arrangements may be going through.
| ericol wrote:
| I'm sorry to hear that. The reality is that there's no
| substitute for human touch.
|
| Obviously it's an incredible complex decision, but have you
| thought about getting a pet? (If that's within your
| possibilities)
| wwweston wrote:
| Feeling it too. Last few weeks I decided that I was going
| to negotiate some limited contact (occasional masked walks
| and hugs) with a few select people.
|
| This is arguably a little irresponsible of me; I have a
| housemate who is a social worker and not isolating, which
| makes me a potential link in a transmission chain. But on
| the other hand, we're spending nearly zero time together in
| shared spaces (we literally go weeks w/o seeing each other)
| and I'm very conscientious about what I touch and when in
| shared spaces. And delivery or random passers-by on walks
| are my only other form of exposure, so it seems like a
| managed risk if not absolutely minimized.
|
| I think some who live alone are going to find this kind of
| quaran-team approach important as we break past the first
| few miles of the marathon. The trick may be in really doing
| it thoughtfully in a planned-out conscientious manner
| rather than waiting until arriving at some breaking point
| and throwing caution to the wind.
| kaybe wrote:
| I think it should be fine if you form a very small group
| and only ever meet these same people (optimally outside
| with a bit of distance of course). It shouldn't be that
| much different from people living in a medium-size
| household and much better for mental health.
| cortesoft wrote:
| Yes, this has certainly solidified my understanding of myself
| as an introvert... I am stuck home with my wife and two young
| kids, and I mostly want more alone time... I don't miss seeing
| other people.
| ethagnawl wrote:
| Same here. Though, I do wonder if it'd be a case of _be
| careful what you wish for_ if, for some reason, all of the
| sudden I was completely isolated.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| Same here, including your worry.
| pgt wrote:
| Being around your partner and daughter is social.
| ericol wrote:
| Well, yes. But it's not the same, and I'm in this boat as
| well:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23460927
| [deleted]
| tehlike wrote:
| That explains fair amount of us, I think. I'm on the same camp.
| It makes it a bit challenging as my wife is extremely social,
| so finding balance is a bit tough for both of us :)
| obiefernandez wrote:
| I have the same issue. My wife is going absolutely stir-crazy
| and dreaming of all the adventures, while I'm absolutely
| happy to be productive at home with relatively few
| distractions.
| ericol wrote:
| Well, my partner has the same issue.
|
| Even thought we are living in this city because it was the
| best for her career (She's a professional flamenco
| "bailaora" and where we lived before her career was dead in
| the water) she doesn't have a large amount of friends, but
| boy does she crave for going out.
|
| She is really having a bad time going through this, while
| I'm surfing the wave without issues.
| [deleted]
| LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
| _Stressfressen_
| kaybe wrote:
| _Kummerspeck_
| amelius wrote:
| In some circles, there's even an expression for a related
| phenomenon: "skin hunger"
|
| https://globalnews.ca/news/6929793/coronavirus-disability-to...
| the-peter wrote:
| Interestingly there is a Japanese phrase 'kuchi sabishii' that
| translates to 'lonely mouth' which means you aren't hungry but
| want to snack.
| LUmBULtERA wrote:
| I feel like they could have come up with a better name.
| starpilot wrote:
| I just haven't been able to read books when I've been isolated a
| lot. It's just like my mind can't focus, it's so anxious and
| doesn't considering the reading to be important. My theory is
| it's similar to waking up in the middle of the night when lonely.
| The mind is searching for dangers from being isolated and alone.
|
| I also notice my urge to buy stuff goes up when I am lonely.
| Another salve for the pain.
| smcameron wrote:
| I've lived alone my whole adult life. I haven't seen anyone I
| know since March 8. Doesn't seem to bother me. Guess I'm a freak.
| cameronbrown wrote:
| Would explain why I'm eating a bowl of cereal at 9PM nowadays...
|
| I would encourage people to see friends at a distance whenever
| possible. We must remember to balance our mental health (greatly
| affected by seeing others) with our physical health.
| tomrod wrote:
| This... makes a lot of sense. I get hunger cravings even when
| full when I have those 70+ (rare) or even 55+ (more often) hour
| weeks.
| Swizec wrote:
| > when I have those 70+ (rare) or even 55+ (more often) hour
| weeks
|
| This is likely a different phenomena. You're burning more fuel
| by working longer. Especially if it comes with less sleep as
| well.
|
| The brain is quite a fuel-hungry organ and will crave sugars
| and carbs when stressed. If you're also sleeping less, you're
| burning more physical energy as well simply by being active
| longer.
|
| I regularly lose weight during hard weeks unless I compensate
| by eating more.
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