[HN Gopher] The Map Is Not the Territory (2015)
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The Map Is Not the Territory (2015)
Author : nonines
Score : 85 points
Date : 2020-06-11 10:27 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (fs.blog)
(TXT) w3m dump (fs.blog)
| cerberusss wrote:
| A.E. van Vogt wrote a fantastic SF novel based on the concept of
| "the map is not the territory". It's called "The Players of
| Null-A", if I remember correctly. It became a trilogy. I've re-
| read it multiple times and in fact, had just started reading it
| again. Some things did not age well since it was written in 1946,
| but overall fascinating stuff.
| mroll wrote:
| The first book is actually called "The World of Null-A". I
| picked it up at a local used book store last year and enjoyed
| it. Haven't read any more of the trilogy yet.
| cerberusss wrote:
| Ah, thanks for mentioning that. If you get the chance, the
| other two are pretty great as well. As an aside, one of my
| favorite authors, Neil Asher, recently blogged about A.E. van
| Vogt:
|
| http://theskinner.blogspot.com/2020/06/destination-
| universe-...
| interestica wrote:
| Even actuallier, the first book was titled "The World of A"
| but "to reduce printing costs, the 1953 and 1964 Ace Books
| paperback editions were entitled The World of Null-A, and the
| symbol A was replaced with "null-A" throughout the text." [1]
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_of_Null-A#Publica
| tio...
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| One of my favorite sayings is the old Swiss Army aphorism:
|
| _" When the map and the terrain disagree; believe the terrain."_
|
| It features in this screed I wrote:
| https://medium.com/chrismarshallny/concrete-galoshes-a5798a5...
|
| _(Scroll down to "Story Time." It's in that section.)_
|
| I also enjoyed learning about Farnam Street. I've bookmarked it.
| earthboundkid wrote:
| What's interesting are cases where the map is the territory. The
| Facebook map of your friends just is the graph of your Facebook
| friends. The chain of command for the military just is the chain
| of command. Etc.
| ssivark wrote:
| Trivially so, but are they even interesting?
|
| Such well-specific label territories are often artificial. Your
| Facebook social graph is a poor proxy for your actual IRL
| social network (or whose opinions you interact with the most,
| etc)
|
| Big bureaucratic organizations (or other less responsive
| intelligences) often try to force the territory to conform to
| the map, for convenience of steering, but it seems like there
| is a significant map/territory mismatch in the generally
| interesting/important cases.
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| The map says an O-1 outranks an E-7; the territory says a wise
| O-1 takes cues from their E-7.
| cheschire wrote:
| Ehhh, the chain of command in the military is defined by
| regulations (the map) because you never know exactly who is
| going to be incapacitated at any given moment. Therefore while
| today a peer platoon leader might have no authority over me, if
| our company commander is killed tomorrow and my peer has
| seniority, he may suddenly have command authority over the
| company.
|
| So while I get your point, I wonder how much people miss the
| map due to obscure knowledge requirements and think it doesn't
| exist.
| Tehchops wrote:
| I wonder if it's even useful anymore to consider mental models in
| the context of financial markets, even if it's just used as a
| metaphorical warning sign.
|
| I read an assertion recently that of all the "markets" in human
| civilization/culture, the financial one is the only one where we
| have truly have brought maximum resource and human capital to
| bear. With that in mind, no one is ever surprised when the next
| fat tail undoes hundreds of millions in mere moments, even when
| the capital was managed by ostensibly "smart" individuals.
|
| The map is certainly not the territory there, but for the average
| individual they're going to have a hard time understanding the
| map, the territory, the map legend, anecdotes about the map
| etc...
| SuoDuanDao wrote:
| Financial markets are also unusually tough because it's such a
| wicked problem. If there weren't so many smart people trying to
| predict them, they'd be easier to predict.
| segfaultbuserr wrote:
| > _The map is certainly not the territory there, but for the
| average individual they 're going to have a hard time
| understanding the map, [...], the map legend [...]_
|
| It's true in many fields of engineering and scientific
| research, including geography and map-making. Just see how
| complex Geographic Information Systems [0] (basically
| computerized maps) have became.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_information_system
| BurningFrog wrote:
| The financial markets are aware of the models of them, and use
| that knowledge to subvert their expectations.
|
| The financial markets may be the biggest intelligent entity
| that ever existed.
|
| The only way to second guess them is to figure out a tru
| theory, and _NOT PUBLISH IT_. I expect there are many such
| theories producing a lot of wealth to people who don 't talk
| about it.
| bearer_token wrote:
| Two implications:
|
| 1. We have many maps, models, or concepts - different ways of
| viewing the same situation. How we choose which map is often more
| important than the overall accuracy of our maps. Changing
| perspective often beats getting more accurate data.
|
| 2. There is no reason to have any emotional or sentimental
| attachment to one's knowledge. Think of "your knowledge" the same
| way you would think of "your map collection". Edit (or discard)
| them with extreme prejudice!
| FigmentEngine wrote:
| even better resource, learn wardley mapping
| https://medium.com/wardleymaps
|
| how to use maps in business
| setgree wrote:
| Two great illustrations of this concept from literature come to
| mind:
|
| * Borges's 'On Exactitude in Science' [0] about a map that is as
| large and as precise as the territory, which renders it useless;
|
| * the wonderful Eschaton scene in Infinite Jest [1], with Pemulis
| screaming: "It's snowing on the goddamn _map_ , not the
| territory, you _dick_!
|
| This point gets made enough over time that one suspects it's an
| enduring trait of our cognition to mistake the two. It certainly
| comes up when people present and talk about epidemiology models.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Exactitude_in_Science
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJpfK7l404I -- I think this
| Decembrists music video does Eschaton wonderfully.
| suryabeep wrote:
| I saw the title to this post and immediately thought of these
| two things. I clicked on the comments, and you've already named
| them. What great writers!
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