[HN Gopher] Facebook acquires Mapillary
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Facebook acquires Mapillary
Author : liotier
Score : 157 points
Date : 2020-06-20 10:17 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (blog.mapillary.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (blog.mapillary.com)
| wasmitnetzen wrote:
| Previous discussion from 2 days ago:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23564854
| dang wrote:
| Normally we'd mark this one a dupe, but it looks like that
| thread was underwater the whole time
| (http://hnrankings.info/23564854/), meaning it never made the
| front page. That's usually an indication of greater interest,
| so we'll leave this one up.
|
| Yes, it's on our list to write software to detect such cases.
| krick wrote:
| Uh, ok, but for those who never heard of Mapillary, what does
| that _actually_ mean? Is it still something notable, even though
| we don 't see it? I mean, Facebook buys tons of stuff, it's not
| always clear how a particular acquisition is interesting.
|
| FWIW, "Mapillary's involvement in OpenStreetMap" part doesn't
| explain to me what this stuff really has to do with OSM either.
| [deleted]
| rvz wrote:
| Honestly, no-one knows but Mapillary and FB. Given that FB is
| starting to enter into the maps arena with Google, Apple, etc I
| wouldn't want to know the sort of stuff that FB could do with
| it.
|
| It's too easy to think about the ugly side of this 'incredible
| journey' than it is to think about any good that will come out
| of this due to FB being 'FB'.
| thinkingemote wrote:
| Mapillary is basically the Google Street View part of OSM.
| There are a couple of other street view offerings though.
|
| Given that Google Maps was mainly built directly from street
| view (and gps) this is important.
|
| Additionally, recently, both fb and mapillary were using ML
| tech on images and maps to extract info for a kind of automated
| mapping.
| kyawzazaw wrote:
| Some efforts like this, https://mapwith.ai/
| tjoff wrote:
| Not sure I understand, google maps predates street view by
| many years and the street view becomes obsolete quite quick.
|
| Doesn't seem that important (for maps).
| Doctor_Fegg wrote:
| Though it's not "part of OSM" - it's an entirely separate
| project (set up as a VC-funded commercial entity, rather than
| a non-profit Foundation like OSM). It does allow OSM to use
| its imagery and API for mapping purposes.
| Krasnol wrote:
| That "part of OSM" describes the good relationship the OSM
| community had with Mapillary up until this moment.
|
| Also I'm quite sure if they hadn't "allow" OSM to use its
| images, their photo database would have been much smaller.
| perennate wrote:
| Facebook uses OpenStreetMap for many map displays so they
| may have an incentive to improve OSM and continue
| maintaining the good relationship between Mapillary and
| OSM. Facebook has contributed tools to OSM before, e.g.
| the RapiD editor [1], though I don't think they are used
| much.
|
| [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/RapiD
| Krasnol wrote:
| I'm not sure how this is related to the comment before
| but what do you think would happen if Facebook started
| misusing data of Mapillary for example? Do you seriously
| think OSM would "lock them out" or something?
| petre wrote:
| Not possible. FB can use OSM data to build their own maps
| like everybody else does.
| tempodox wrote:
| Never heard of Mapillary, but does that mean that web requests to
| OSM shovel data to Facebook now? The article is too opaque and
| euphemistic to allow practical conclusions.
|
| Mapillary can "journey" wherever they want as long as they don't
| take me, as their non-user, with them.
| KaiserPro wrote:
| > but does that mean that web requests to OSM shovel data to
| Facebook now?
|
| Other way round. Facebook pile a bunch of time and tools into
| OSM maps.
| maxerickson wrote:
| No direct impact on OSM services.
|
| Mapillary is/was a private for profit company that allows
| people to extract information from their crowd sourced photos
| and then add it to OpenStreetMap. So a road sign or business
| name or whatever.
|
| This arrangement encouraged lots of OSM users to contribute
| photos to Mapillary, as it is a nice way to add information to
| OSM (and to enable others to add information).
|
| The indirect impact on OSM services is that turning on the view
| of the Mapillary images in an OSM editor will request that data
| from Mapillary servers (which are now Facebook servers). So you
| _can_ go to the OpenStreetMap website and engage in an activity
| where you request data from Facebook servers. But you have to
| sign in, activate the editor and then activate the view of the
| images for that to happen.
|
| A lot of the people that contributed heavily to Mapillary are
| disappointed with this outcome, as they have strong feelings
| about Facebook. I've contributed a little bit to Mapillary and
| will likely continue to do so, as I'm not trying to create an
| open data street view commons, I'm using it as a convenience.
| tempodox wrote:
| Thank you for that excellent explanation.
| blackboxlogic wrote:
| it would take a lot of convincing for me to welcome Facebook
| into any project I'm part of. I've pointed out to one of
| their POs that they are violating OSMs copyright by not
| showing any attribution when browsing on mobile. I'm not
| confident it will ever be fixed. When they ask to be
| integrated into a project they're already abusing, the answer
| should be hard no. I'll reply to this comment if they start
| respecting OSMs copyright (unless comments get locked?). Just
| musing... but where do I file a DMCA?
| maxerickson wrote:
| Their use of the data is subject to section 4.3 of the
| ODBL. The language there demands a notice "reasonably
| calculated" to make the user "aware" of the data source. It
| doesn't demand on map attribution.
|
| Attribution on the map is a clear, easy way to meet that
| bar (and acknowledges the many OSM contributors that see a
| prominent notice as being necessary to meet the license),
| but it isn't clear that the court tested bar will be so
| high.
|
| Note that I'm not drawing "We'll see you in court" as a
| good way for a company to act towards a community, just
| commenting on where and how their obligations are defined.
| blackboxlogic wrote:
| Well, browse to a FB page on mobile, and play "find the
| data source". When you lose that game, I'd say they did
| not "make the user aware".
| texasbigdata wrote:
| Especially when the FB map guys go on podcasts and brag
| about how they use the data source and how advanced they
| are.
| scatters wrote:
| If you edit using iD (the default in-website editor), and you
| explicitly choose to request Mapillary imagery (at least two
| extra mouse clicks) then yes, in the abstract Facebook will be
| aware that you used Mapillary imagery to aid your
| contributions. Similarly other editors (programs and apps) may
| have Mapillary integration; you'll have to check with them but
| typically you'll be aware if you're using Mapillary imagery
| (you should, to be able to attribute correctly). Finally some
| OSM apps (e.g. OsmAnd) use Mapillary to provide street-level
| imagery (Google StreetView-style) for general use; if you're
| concerned you can probably disable this.
|
| The main website does not at present integrate Mapillary
| directly. Of course, this could change in future if they decide
| to make it more interactive, but even then it seems likely that
| this would only be in the case the user asks to see street-
| level imagery.
| KaiserPro wrote:
| It will be interesting to see how effective facebook's rampup
| of"opensource" OSM infrastructure will be.
|
| They have bought other mapping companies, which on the surface
| look like they are able to generate city scale point clouds.
| Combine those with mapillary's very compelling annotation
| framework, and the resources to do street sign detection, it
| looks like Facebook/OSM will be able to dramatically lower the
| cost to entry for people wanting high quality fully featured
| maps.
|
| This is facebook of course, so it equally turn to shit. But one
| has to at least hope for a better outcome
| annadane wrote:
| Stop letting them buy companies. The lack of ethics and trust
| they have from people should preclude any of this from happening
| adsadsads wrote:
| Possibilities of this acquisition are endless. For instance,
| combine the location data in the Facebook App with the street
| view to identify which businesses people are at - and charge
| higher ad prices to those users who were previously saw an ad for
| that business.
| easytiger wrote:
| Do they have street view equivalent data? My understanding was
| they have crowdsourced images/panoramas which are overlayed on
| a map using the geotags.
|
| I'm not sure how that's even useful as anything other than a
| curiosity.
|
| Perhaps I've missed something
| maxerickson wrote:
| They have enough images that it is more than a curiosity
| (they can do reasonable 3d point clouds of buildings in some
| ares). They also have quite a lot of software for extracting
| information from the images.
| jraph wrote:
| One can use OsmAnd a bit like street view in places where
| Mapillary images are available.
| folmar wrote:
| There is also crowdsourced streetview-like continuous stream
| of street images, and some code to extract features.
| tuukkah wrote:
| Mapillary is cool technology and important to OpenStreetMap in
| many ways: 1) Satellite imagery only gets you so far regarding
| object visibility and recognition. 2) GPS locations and traces
| are inaccurate. 3) Google's ecosystem provides a street view and
| to meet expectations, OSM should have one too.
|
| Do you boycott React, which Facebook provides as Open Source as a
| contribution to the JavaScript ecosystem?
|
| Do you boycott Mapillary, which Facebook provides as Open Data as
| a contribution to the OpenStreetMap ecosystem? Many parts of the
| system are Open Source too: https://github.com/mapillary
| trynewideas wrote:
| "You hypocrite! You claim an allergy to nuts, and yet you eat a
| coconut."
|
| Well, coconuts aren't selling user-collected data to Facebook.
|
| "BUT THEY'RE A NUT! IT'S RIGHT THERE IN THE NAME"
| tuukkah wrote:
| Mapillary does not have and is not selling personal data.
| Mapillary's main dataset is photos of (public) streets, and
| as openly licensed it was available for Facebook's use even
| before this sale.
| Tepix wrote:
| That's correct. They can collect more data about mapillary
| users now, however. Not a good thing. I don't think I'll
| contribute to Mapillary in the future.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Please consider contributing to OpenStreetCam instead.
|
| https://openstreetcam.org/map/
| [deleted]
| AlexTrask wrote:
| 5 edits on OSM since 2014 I can't see his interest on OSM
| maxerickson wrote:
| It's not incongruous to like and support OpenStreetMap and then
| also find editing tedious and so look for other ways to
| contribute.
|
| Like say using VC funding to create a company that makes tens
| of millions of photos available for people that are editing
| OSM.
| ATsch wrote:
| I wonder if the OSM Community will draw any long-term conclusions
| about trusting especially VC-backed companies from the fate of
| both Mapillary and MapZen in the last year as well as earlier
| back-turns such as MapQuest.
|
| In these cases, it always seemed to me, as an occasional editor,
| like the OSM community was maybe overly eager to rely on services
| provided by external companies with not enough concern given to
| long-term risks. But beggars can't be chosers of course.
| lowdose wrote:
| This is probably related to Facebook Aquila [0] drone project
| with the ambition to deliver internet to the whole world. MVP
| successful in 2016 and more developments in 2020.
|
| With Tesla launching Starlink it wouldn't be a surprise with
| Zuckerberg's competitiveness that he upgrades this specific part
| in his gameplay.
|
| In the words of Jim Collins to maximize the impact of the limited
| supply of gunpowder companies should first try to hit the the
| target with a riffle and with the knowledge of a success, aim the
| canon and hit the target at first attempt.
|
| [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook_Aquila
| jmkb wrote:
| Admins, consider changing the link to
| https://blog.mapillary.com/news/2020/06/18/Mapillary-joins-F...
| -- the current link implies that this is directly related to
| OpenStreetMap, when in truth it's just a blog ("diary") of a
| Mapillary employee hosted under his OSM user account.
| dang wrote:
| Ok, changed from
| https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jesolem/diary/393358.
| hk__2 wrote:
| Translation for those who don't speak marketing: Facebook bought
| Mapillary.
| TomJansen wrote:
| Is seems that they really do not want to admit that they have
| been bought. They make it sound like that they are in a
| partnership or something.
| rcthompson wrote:
| I don't understand this decision. Do they really think that
| creative wording will keep people from figuring it out? And
| once people figure it out, the "creative wording" just makes
| them look dishonest. Is it just about preventing news
| websites from being able to use "FB bought us" as a direct
| quote?
| Kiro wrote:
| This is not the announcement post but in the very first
| sentence it says "Today we announced that Mapillary has
| joined Facebook", linking to
| https://blog.mapillary.com/news/2020/06/18/Mapillary-
| joins-F...
|
| Seems pretty clear to me.
| Lammy wrote:
| I agree that's pretty clear, but I can also see how
| "joins" can read like a partnership or some other
| collaboration and not outright ownership.
| moksly wrote:
| The real worrying part is that they think the creative
| wording makes them seem less dishonest than outright
| telling people that Facebook bought them.
| tempodox wrote:
| > the "creative wording" just makes them look dishonest.
|
| I feel the same way. Whenever I see that kind of language I
| infer an undisguised attempt to mislead readers.
| TomJansen wrote:
| I think they word it this way because they do not want to
| anger the OSM crowd too much (ie massively deleting their
| profiles & photos)
| kyawzazaw wrote:
| They are already getting started on that.
| https://framagit.org/Midgard/exit-mapillary
| dang wrote:
| (This comment was posted when the linked URL was
| https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jesolem/diary/393358 and the
| title was "Mapillary and Facebook - Combining our open mapping
| efforts")
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(page generated 2020-06-21 23:00 UTC)