[HN Gopher] Cameo's CEO on how he plans to disrupt Hollywood ___________________________________________________________________ Cameo's CEO on how he plans to disrupt Hollywood Author : ericzass Score : 43 points Date : 2020-06-22 18:18 UTC (4 hours ago) (HTM) web link (dot.la) (TXT) w3m dump (dot.la) | ineedasername wrote: | The venn diagram of contract workers is not a perfect overlap | with "gig" work. Just because you're self-employed, selling your | services to others on a contract basis, doesn't make that gig | work. | TallGuyShort wrote: | Other than the fact that celebrities have more unique value | (however superficial or subjective) to bring than a typical gig | worker brings to say, Uber, what else do you think defines gig | work? | notatoad wrote: | >Just because you're self-employed, selling your services to | others on a contract basis, doesn't make that gig work. | | doesn't it? as far as i can tell, the only distinction between | "gig economy" and contract workers is that contract workers | actually get paid at rates that make it sustainable and that | being between contracts isn't a catastrophe, whereas jobs | classed as "gig economy" pay low enough to keep the workers | desperate for the next gig. | eswat wrote: | Most gig work is done through middlemen/platforms where only | some contract work like that exists and typically for longer | engagements (ie: through agencies and temp staffing). | | Contractors also have more flexibility to develop a | relationship with the "client" for better opportunties down | the road without the middleman/platform interfering. | walshemj wrote: | The modern use of "gig" economy is mostly a tax dodge and | avoiding classifying them as employees. | | That's quite different to say a session musician getting the | call can you by at Abby Road tomorrow at 9 "big name star" | needs a guitar player. | | Gig in the original sense originally a musicians term for a | Job | daenz wrote: | In my mind, the prices that celebrities can be bought and paid to | say anything really casts doubt on whatever other social causes | they claim to have. | Jarwain wrote: | I'd think that they'd be able to reject a request that they | aren't interested in or would have them go against their | values. | sharkweek wrote: | Cameo is one of THE WEIRDEST service I've ever seen, but it | shouldn't surprise me at all that it exists I guess. | | Looking through the list and seeing that I can get the To Catch A | Predator guy to say almost whatever I want for $50, Diamond | Dallas Page for $85, The Mooch for $50... it's unbelievable. | | The service practically markets itself too, as the more people | that share the videos they buy, the more it'll spread. No idea | what the end game is here, but it feels like something right out | of a dystopian sci-fi novel. | haram_masala wrote: | Those rates seem really low, for some reason. Anthony | Scaramucci, who was a big-time trader at GS and then started | his own fund, will record one of those messages for fifty | bucks? I don't get it. And just being on this platforms seems | to put a specific dollar figure on one's dignity. | ponker wrote: | For "The Mooch" it's probably an addiction to attention | that's driving his Cameo participation. | psds2 wrote: | He could also just be getting paid $200 for his $50 cameo. | Why would this be any different than the other VC | subsidized consumer focused services? | haram_masala wrote: | I hadn't thought of that, you could be exactly right. In | fact that should be the default assumption. | sct202 wrote: | Some of these lower tier celebrities like interacting with | fans, like a lot of celebrities aren't that popular or rich | enough to have people manage their social media for them and | are the ones actually interacting with online fans... or | critics. | mjburgess wrote: | Think about how many clips they can do in an hour. At say, < | 5min/clip you can maybe do 10/hr. | | Have a few hours on a morning/evening spare? Easily a few | $1000 | notahacker wrote: | But would Scaramucci notice the extra $500 from devoting an | hour to reading scripts? I doubt he gets an enormous number | of requests anyway. If it's an ego thing, surely that's | cancelled out by the amount people are actually willing to | pay for his greetings being substantially less than the | cheapest Pro voiceover actors on Fiverr. | | Might make a lot more sense for the sort of artists that | get a lot more TV/radio/YouTube exposure than actual | income, but even some of them might wonder if they're | devaluing their ability to charge much bigger bucks for | endorsements and ads | mjburgess wrote: | I suspect it says something about the somewhat dystopian lives | celebrities often lead. | AndrewKemendo wrote: | For me Cameo, more than any of the celebrity zoom calls, | twitter sing alongs etc... has busted the bubble of celebrity. | | For better or worse, society forces celebrities to live in this | superposition of untouchable and relatable. Cameo kills the | untouchable part because it's putting a price on their time - | which to the layperson like me _feels_ invaluable - even if we | know that there is certainly a dollar figure to it. | | $30 per second [0] is unreal money for anyone - If the numbers | are right Hasselhof has made $11,000 for doing 51, 30 second | videos. So it's certainly a benefit from each side, obviously! | At that rate he could work ~30 minutes per day during the work | week (2 videos per day, a couple of tries, login and upload) | take a full month off a year and still make $140k. | | I think for me it comes down to the realization: "I can't | believe these huge celebrities have time for this" - but it | could just be an artifact of quarantine. | | [0]: https://www.cameo.com/davidhasselhoff | luckydata wrote: | Money is a bonus but the part a big time celebrity cares | about is getting their face out there and look like they are | relatable and nice people. Helps when they have a new | project. | AndrewKemendo wrote: | That's exactly my point though. For me personally, the more | relatable celebrities are, the less they are able to create | the distance and mystique that is in my opinion the | foundation of what celebrity is. | | I think most people want to continue to be able to pretend | that their favorite celeb doesn't have bad breath in the | morning, binge watches bad TV or leaves their dirty towel | on the floor in the bathroom. | TigeriusKirk wrote: | And then they see the celeb's tweets. | vikramkr wrote: | I think the opposite. It's all about that authenticity | now. Look - they're vlogging! They're just like me! Or | whatever. | machinehermit wrote: | To Catch A Predator guy saying almost anything for $50 sounds | like the greatest service ever. | boxfire wrote: | I think it would be pretty interesting to scrape the site for | celeb prices over time and analyze them. At the least it would | be a hilarious stock ticker to put in a waiting area or | restroom | ChainOfFools wrote: | it's just a form of signed memorabilia for the virtual property | age. Like getting a CD cover or photo signed with a greeting. | hckr_news wrote: | My friend's brother-in-law used this service a couple months ago | for his engagement and wedding, and had a celebrity basically | wish them congratulations on the wedding and even mentioned the | couple by name (I think you just give them a script of what to | say, and they'll record themselves doing it). The cool and maybe | the natural part of it was that it didn't look scripted. The | celeb record themself on their own phone I believe, and sent it | in the form of a video message. Something like Facebook live. | When I saw the video message, it seemed very natural. I suppose | for your friends who don't know of this service, it'll make it | seem like you're on personal terms with a celeb and you received | a video from your "celeb friend" saying congrats. I definitely | see a market for this service as it reaches the masses and grows. | | Birthdays, weddings, anniversary milestones, bar mitvahs, high | school graduation. Imagine Lebron wishing your kid happy | birthday. And all You had to do was pay $5000 and send a script | for a 15-second video. | pbhjpbhj wrote: | What's the root cause of this pathological behaviour. | | Why is it impressive, to a large proportion of the population, | rather than just sad and wasteful (as it appears to me). | | I mean I get that it's an [fake] indicator of social | associations that could have high value, it's more why is that | impressive as opposed to people actually acquiring value. Like | a "demonstration of ability to pay" but with social credit. | | This seems like the social equivalent of when a brand becomes | well known for having high-quality goods -- they then put their | logo on lots-and-lots of super-low quality goods that people | then buy to pretend they have high-quality goods. | | It all makes no sense to me. | | Is it something about audio-visual media that we can't use it | for entertainment without our brains inadvertently treating | characters as part of our social circles; then we fail at | recognising actors as not being their characters; ...? | | Is everyone insane or is there something I'm missing. | eyerony wrote: | > Is everyone insane or is there something I'm missing. | | Difference in taste based on class-related norms & values, | mostly, is what I'd say you're missing. Can make a thing | really impressive/desirable to one group of people, and | simultaneously gauche/disgusting to another. | chrisseaton wrote: | > Is everyone insane or is there something I'm missing. | | Different people have different tastes. Relax and let them | enjoy what they enjoy. | aabeshou wrote: | > Is everyone insane or is there something I'm missing. | | in a sense, much of the world is insane because they pursue | narcissistic types of social status. | | but I also do think this is just fun - putting aside the idea | of getting a cameo as a status symbol, it's just fun to get a | message from some public figure whose work you admire. | _curious_ wrote: | Status symbol? Maybe for highschoolers, but if someone | showed me this IRL, as an adult, and actually paid real | money for such platitudes I would question their maturity | level. What an exploitative model. | aabeshou wrote: | yeah I would feel sad for someone who's not rich who paid | thousands for a shoutout from someone | ummonk wrote: | It's nowhere near thousands. It's usually like a hundred | bucks. E.g. I've had friends do one from Chris Hansen as | a joke for a large age-gap couple in our group, for the | cost of $50. | aabeshou wrote: | thats genuinely hilarious, money well spent | smt88 wrote: | > _Is everyone insane or is there something I 'm missing._ | | You're missing something. They're not insane, and neither are | you. | | Imagine you've loved a certain musician your entire life and | you could pay them to sing a song with your name in it. | | Or, imagine you and your spouse saw a certain movie on your | first date, and you think it would be funny and thoughtful to | have one of the actors (or characters) from that movie wish | your spouse a happy birthday. | | Or, imagine you have followed a sports team for years and | have the opportunity to talk to one of the stars. | | There is nothing strange or new about celebrity. Touching | fame is interesting and exciting to people. There are | celebrities who are genuinely meaningful to people -- maybe | their work helped get through a tough time. | | You don't have to understand it, but it's not hurting anyone, | so there's nothing insane about it. It's just a form of | personalized entertainment. | haram_masala wrote: | Just about the very last thing I would do to a musician | whom I admire would be to debase them like that. | pedalpete wrote: | I feel like this is the point that gets missed. For these | people that are famous for a skill or craft, Cameo turns | them into an Organ Grinder Monkey. Obviously if the celeb | is doing it, nobody is forcing them, but the whole thing | just feels so cheap and degrading. | | Who ever would have thought you'd say "I'll pay you $500 | to wish me a happy birthday" | hammock wrote: | All of these celebrities regularly take appearance fees | to show up at nightclubs, bar mitzvahs, birthday parties, | etc. It's extremely common. You don't hear about most of | them because they're private events. | slg wrote: | Why do you consider this any more degrading than any | other form of patronage? Why is paying a musician to wish | someone happy birthday somehow more shameful than | demanding they sing and dance for me when I show up to | their concert? In both cases, the artist gets the funds | to keep making their art and the audience gets to | continue enjoying that art. | smt88 wrote: | > _but the whole thing just feels so cheap and degrading_ | | What do you propose as an alternative? | | These are mostly people who aren't getting work anymore. | What dignified career do you imagine for them, when there | are a million younger, cheaper entertainers to take their | place? | | It would be great if they all had college degrees and the | ability to be hired in a stable white-collar job, but | that's rarely an option after a life in entertainment. | majormajor wrote: | Orrrrrr they realize it's just another way to entertain | people and make them happy. Same thing as their regular | job, but now with an extra level of personal-ness. | AndrewKemendo wrote: | Humans are wired for reinforcing social hierarchies by | proximity and repetition - to confer "status" via all sorts | of methods which may or may not be grounded in anything | "tangible" to health, longevity or knowledge. | | Media and Celebrity in general hack this system for profit. | | The root cause of all pathological behavior is your brain. | | [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430590/ | GaryNumanVevo wrote: | Personalization of consumption is the final frontier for | consumerist capitalist culture. | RobRivera wrote: | No one is insane for having different views and priorities | pbhjpbhj wrote: | If someone had a cardboard cutout of a piece of amazing new | tech, that they were pretending was the real thing, would | you think "ooh, nice supercomputer" (or whatever), or would | you think "that's a bit insane"? | | I think convincing yourself a picture of a fridge full of | food is as good as an actual fridge full of food is | objectively a mental problem - and that this is somewhat an | analogue of that. | new2628 wrote: | Really, no one? that's a bold claim. | balls187 wrote: | > Why is it impressive, to a large proportion of the | population, rather than just sad and wasteful (as it appears | to me). | | Don't underestimate the power of nostalgia on humans, which | triggers the release of endorphins which targets the pleasure | center of the brain. | | There are so many dimensions a service like this can be used | in powerful (and postive) ways. | | My father turns 73 next week how great would it be for me to | send him a personalized recording of song from a famous Tamil | musician? That would be $50 better spent than the $50 | wireless food thermometer I got him instead. | | Or for my soon to be 5 year old son, have one of the voice | actors from his favorite tv shows, record him a personalized | birthday greeting? Better than $50 worth of toys that he will | forget about in a years time. | waterbadger wrote: | If you Google "parasocial relationships" you might find some | interesting content. | izzydata wrote: | I've brought this term up a handful of times before, but | nobody I know personally feels the same way I do about | this. I find this kind of thing incredibly strange, but it | is just the norm for so many people. | | Celebrity culture just makes no sense to me. They were in a | movie and are now rich so now I have to care what they have | for breakfast? It just seems so backward. | akiselev wrote: | I wouldn't pay $5,000 for a celebrity message but I paid $50 | for an actor who played a minor Game of Thrones character for | a birthday message for my dad (a GoT fan) that will be | delivered along with a 3D printed brass polished Hand of the | King pin. It's just a really fun way to create a personalized | gift for someone close to me, which is important because I | have a really hard time coming up with meaningful gifts - | it's usually just easier to throw money at it, and the | personalized celebrity message is more meaningful with the | same amount of effort. | | The specific service I used sends the money to the charity of | the celebrity's choice (which they display before you buy) | and no one will see the message except my family. I think the | wedding example is just a little more public than how people | normally use these things. This is the first time I've heard | of them charging four figures but no surprise. | Icathian wrote: | Would you mind naming the service you use? I struggle to | think of good gifts in the post-stuff era and that sounds | like a nice one to add to my toolbox. | willcipriano wrote: | Another use case, for my daughters first birthday I had a | Elmo impersonator (this guy was spot on, you could not tell | the difference) make a video with a puppet for her. It was a | private thing we shared together not something I publicly | shared but her face lit up when "Elmo" said her name and | wished her a happy birthday. It's weird to do this for | yourself, however it makes a thoughtful gift under the right | conditions. | packetslave wrote: | An anecdote: a good friend of mine just found out she's | pregnant with her first child. She's a _huge_ Harry Potter | fan, and her favorite characters are the Weasley Twins. | | For not-all-that-much money, I was able to get James and | Oliver Phelps (the actors who played the twins in all 8 | movies) to each record a separate video message (about 1 | minute each) wishing her congratulations by name and wishing | her and her baby well. | | I made the two Cameo requests on a Friday night, and had both | videos by Sunday morning. Both were warm, friendly, and | seemed to be genuine and happy for her (obviously to the | extent that they know her: "name is X, first-time mom, huge | fan". | | She was absolutely over-the-moon happy about receiving them. | cameronlpm wrote: | I think I'm seeing it through the same lens as you. I'm | really fascinated by the social phenomena of celebrity. Are | you aware of any good papers or resources that explore the | psychology of this? | ChainOfFools wrote: | > This seems like the social equivalent of when a brand | becomes well known for having high-quality goods -- they then | put their logo on lots-and-lots of super-low quality goods | that people then buy to pretend they have high-quality goods. | | I can't quite put my finger on why, but this suggests an | alternate form of IPO is being reinvented, where the currency | of issue was branded social capital, and actual cash is a | kind of leveraged instrument instead of the primary medium of | exchange. | | I also feel like this might be a well known pattern in | behavioral economics and I just don't know the proper name | for it. | jrvarela56 wrote: | We are primates guided by emotions. Our brain responds to | incentives similar to those of other living beings (checkout | mammals and other monkeys). | | Our consciousness is freeing itself from this situation via | computers. The transition seems weird but digital systems are | just implementing tricks we've been playing on each other for | millenia. | | It's just weird when you see Black Mirror type of stuff. | master-litty wrote: | People tend to make negative associations with poverty. | | To survive in social circles, we tend to mask such negative | associations -- Because sometimes it does have genuine | negative consequence, regardless if it is fair or logical. It | comes from the same idea that certain topics aren't | appropriate to discuss on first dates, with your extended | family, with children present, etc. | | So to guarantee social survivability, in this mindset, you | must offer something that creates a positive association. | | Lying is a risky way to create that association. It's social | cheating, in a way. If you're convincing enough, your lie | might as well be real, as far as your relationships are | concerned, and you gain the social benefits of that; | Intrigue, mystery, perceived power. But if you get caught, | you are labelled as someone who will lie for these benefits. | | Many of us can look at these consequences and say it isn't | worth it -- Some of us look at those same consequences and | say it _is_ worth it. This doesn 't make sense to you because | you perceive the consequences as the former, not the latter. | jedberg wrote: | Celebrities elicit an emotional response, similar to going to | a place that has meaning to you. If you've spent twenty hours | watching that person's work, and seeing them reminds you of | the joy you had watching them, it makes sense that seeing | them _say your name_ would elicit a greater response. | homakov wrote: | This is so cringeworthy though | sizzle wrote: | I rather run an open source AI algorithm to generate a | celebrity's face and voice for free to deliver the message. | hckr_news wrote: | Someone on here could probably whip something up like that on | a weekend and start charging money. Those AI generated fake | Obama videos as an example. Can't imagine it's too hard to | make it say "Happy birthday so-and-so". Although can already | see the lawsuits if someone is making money off the likeness | and image of a celeb without permission. | SquishyPanda23 wrote: | > Imagine Lebron wishing your kid happy birthday | | This makes sense if the service is relatively unknown on small. | But if Lebron is mass-producing birthday wishes, and if | everybody knows he's mass-producing birthday wishes, then | wouldn't the coolness actor diminish somewhat? | rhizome wrote: | The reason it looks natural is because it's new. If it gets | popular, it'll be commodified and it'll be the same "radio | station bumper" sound you've always heard. As your wedding DJs | plays the Brad Pitt, "I heartily congratulate you on your | celebration or achievement. Congratulations[static] Wanda and | Billy" generic message they sit down once a month to hammer out | 300 of. | kevinmchugh wrote: | The professionalism of the celebs varies widely. Some can turn | a 50 word prompt into a four minute, fun, natural video, others | read instructions verbatim or fail to read the instructions at | all | BurningFrog wrote: | Candidate for least professional one: | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORpBAIB9j64 | gwbas1c wrote: | Oh, that's a hard video to do. Johnny Depp plays such deep | characters that it often takes me until the middle of the | movie before I realize it's him. | | What kind of character can he be to make a PSA? | jedberg wrote: | Yeah, I've seen a few. Some just read your words staring | straight into the camera and some have fun with it. | | The last one I saw, my friend said, "please wish my husband a | happy father's day". She sent it to the actor who plays his | favorite character on his favorite show. | | The actor turned that prompt into a 30 second in-character | monologue that was just brilliant. It was totally worth the | cost just for the entertainment value to both him and the | rest of us (she shared it on Facebook for us). | hckr_news wrote: | Yeah the couple's video was about a minute long, and was | quite a heartfelt message wishing them congrats and sending | well wishes. | hckr_news wrote: | > Whatever the number, Cameo keeps 25% of the transaction and the | talent does what it wishes with the remainder. | | That's...a lot. The App Store strategy I guess. | josefresco wrote: | Random Trivia: High Pitch Eric, a guest on the Howard Stern show | is making significant money on Cameo. They (the Howard Stern | Show) have speculated that he's one of the top earners on the | platform. I believe he's on pace to make over $100,000 this year. | nytesky wrote: | Super weird, seeing some relatively famous people doing this. | Sean Astin is on a bunch of current Netflix shows fro example. | | Now some do it for charity, which I think if they had started as | a nonprofit and took that angle it could end up huge. Think fo | the kind of legacy it could become, though I guess they wouldn't | become millionaires going that route... | | One shout out to a Silicon Valley alum, whose proceeds go to | charity: https://www.cameo.com/suzannecryer | op03 wrote: | Isn't this the same model Obama, Trump et al use to raise | campaign funds? It feels like they have already proved you can | raise billions selling dinner tickets, photo ops etc. | jedberg wrote: | Keep in mind that even famous middle-class actors with regular | jobs aren't working right now. Film production has only just | restarted in the last week. | | Actors are used to taking whatever gig they can. I suspect as | film production picks up you'll see fewer of those really well | known celebrities on there. | | On the other hand, it takes all of a minute to record one of | these. You could literally do it in your trailer on set while | you wait for them to set up cameras. | BurningFrog wrote: | I'd expect them to do a few takes and "find their motivation" | etc. | | Many hours go into acting for each minute that end up on | screen. | tootie wrote: | Some people are terrible with money. Nic Cage spends money as | fast as earns it which is why he's in so many terrible low | budget movies despite being an A list actor. Seems like the | kind of guy who'd make a killing on Cameo too. | hn_throwaway_99 wrote: | I've got to imagine this is a _huge_ moneymaker for any celebs | that have "event appropriate" fame. For example, I saw a friend | get a personalized graduation message from Natasha Bedingfield | (singer of that ubiquitous graduation song "Unwritten"). I | thought it was really cool, and at a couple hundred bucks a pop I | can imagine that Ms. Bedingfield can make more in a month's worth | of graduation messages than the average person could in years. | tootie wrote: | Appearance fees for celebs are nothing new. It just used to | require talking to their agency. Top celebs probably will still | require it. This is creating a market place for mid and bottom | tier notables to tap into that. | und3rth3iP wrote: | Cameo is a fascinating company. Chicago mag also published a | longread on the company earlier this year if anyone is going down | a rabbit hole: http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago- | Magazine/January-2020/Came... | mc32 wrote: | "Celebrities with over 20,000 Instagram followers - which | occasionally stretches the limits of what one might consider a | "celebrity"" | | It certainly does. | | I would not classify A-list actors and actresses as "gig economy | workers" by any stretch of current understanding of the meaning | of that phrase. | | Maybe "Talent" (tarento) in the Japanese meaning of the word, | maybe. | kostarelo wrote: | I was on a presentation where their CEO presented the service | and said Giannis Antentokoumpo is a gig worker and now with the | the COVID-19 they won't be able to get paid like the rest of | us. | | I didn't know if I should scream at him or jump out the window | on the void. | ardy42 wrote: | > Maybe "Talent" (tarento) in the Japanese meaning of the word, | maybe. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarento | | > Tarento (tarento) are celebrities who regularly appear in | mass media in Japan, especially television. The term is a | gairaigo word - a foreign language loanword - derived from the | English word talent (Japanese does not distinguish /l/ and /r/ | sounds), and has a connotation of "famous for being famous". | mcguire wrote: | For one thing, they're unionized. | Avicebron wrote: | This very much cheapens the struggle of those driving for Uber | etc, we can't conflate an A-list actor with someone scraping by | as a real gig economy worker | michaelbuckbee wrote: | I heard an anecdote on a podcast about Donald Sutherland [1] who | has done both high profile and really steady acting work for | going on 50 years got done with his last scene and then said: | "Well, that may be my last job. I might never work again." | | Even established actors are in a fairly fragile position with | delays, weird hollywood accounting, and the inherent "gig" nature | of their work playing havoc with their salaries. | | I can imagine Cameo seems like incredibly easy and steady money | (even pre Covid) comparatively. | | 1 - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000661/ | spraveenitpro wrote: | Can Brad Pitt deliver Pizza as a "Gig economy worker"? | chrisaycock wrote: | _The New Yorker_ also wrote about Cameo today. The _dot.LA_ | article mentions celebrities in general, but this article | specifically covers people with political connections: | | https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/06/29/from-the-trump... | | Rod Blagojevich (former governor of Illinois) says that Cameo is | his main source of income now. | [deleted] | BurningFrog wrote: | You shouldn't always trust everything Rod Blagojevich says :) | bcrosby95 wrote: | I'm just your average web dev, but the Cameo site seems to send a | lot of unnecessary information on pages. E.g. the request that | fetches recent public videos made by someone seems to include the | price paid... because, why? Reviews include the original order | id... because, why? This just seems to be asking for trouble. Is | this how most AJAX-heavy sites work? | treelovinhippie wrote: | Waste of human attention. | jerkstate wrote: | I think this service is incredibly cool. celebrities have been | making paid appearances at parties and events forever, this is | just the social media version of that, a much cheaper way to get | a celebrity on your social media feed. I bought one for my wife | for mothers day last year, I was a little worried about how it | would go over, but she absolutely loved it. Yes, it's a little | silly, and no, it doesn't solve any glaring social problems, but | it's more memorable and personal than flowers and chocolates. | [deleted] ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2020-06-22 23:00 UTC)