[HN Gopher] Drug overdoses are soaring during the coronavirus pa...
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Drug overdoses are soaring during the coronavirus pandemic
Author : antigizmo
Score : 123 points
Date : 2020-07-02 21:21 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.washingtonpost.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.washingtonpost.com)
| williesleg wrote:
| No kidding, just read all the shit in the news and here on what's
| supposed to be a tech news site, it's enough to make anybody do
| that.
| flattone wrote:
| A lot of drug trade has stopped due to border closures. Obviously
| cannot reveal sources. I guess technically i am the source of
| info, knowing folks who are nervous to make house payments due to
| mexico border
| perardi wrote:
| A lot of not-that-illegal-but-still-illegal drugs that are
| manufactured in bulk in China and India are still coming in
| just fine.
|
| Source: my sources.
| yingw787 wrote:
| I remember talking to a technically minded friend about my
| clinical depression, and I remember how she mentioned building an
| app to help solve it. I remember thinking at the time how
| sometimes building an app isn't the solution to a problem.
|
| Sometimes the best solutions are the simplest, most
| straightforward, and the least innovative ones: voting in
| policymakers who craft empathetic public policy, donating to
| charity, being there for a friend.
|
| Hope you all are doing well :)
| Melting_Harps wrote:
| > I remember thinking at the time how sometimes building an app
| isn't the solution to a problem.
|
| > Sometimes the best solutions are the simplest...
|
| I agreed with your reasoning and logic but not your conclusion.
|
| And while I'm a proponent of UBI, and to an extent Andrew
| Yang's platform, simply voting someone in doesn't solve the
| many pitfalls of the Human Condition. Which includes, but is
| not limited to, finding value and self-wroth from one's
| achievements and work in Society and in Daily Life.
|
| Nothing stops you from going and planting a community garden,
| or if that's not available in your area guerilla gardening, or
| volunteering in several capacities. Even taking up hobbies you
| may have put off is a very good use of time. Or launching a
| side gig that can teach you new skills in a otherwise neglected
| facet of your Life.
|
| I personally went back to school in Jan as a plan B to my
| pursuit to go to SpaceX, as I have been out of Supply Chain
| since 2017 when I left BMW and VW, and that has kept me pretty
| engaged. On top of that I also have neglected off-road project
| I needed to do some much needed maintenance on after driving
| through the 3ft+ of snow, so while my normal social-life has
| completely gone away (and I feel it, although they did
| temporarily open the clubs last week for 2 nights, only to re-
| close this weeks events) I'm still pretty engaged with my old
| team as well as have school and cars to keep me engaged--
| honestly, this feels too much like HS for my taste.
|
| In short: Public Policy can and should address many things,
| like de-funding and de-militarizing the police to focus on
| community outreach, but it cannot overcome the many perils of
| being Human. We need to feel engaged in our Community and
| within ourselves, and I think very few people have adjusted to
| that well, as most of Civilization has been built on overcoming
| the (in)convenience of Life and left very little room for self-
| reflection.
|
| Sidenote: I've been chef for the past years after leaving Tech,
| and the way restaurants operate now is completely odd and not
| at all appealing to me for in-room dining; I went with some
| friends and it's not at all pleasant, and they let us take off
| our masks at the table/bar area we were sat at. I don't foresee
| myself going on dinner dates at a resteraunt anytime soon. Its
| good for a take out deal and walk somewhere or go home, but I
| can cook, so the ambiance is really the only thing I pay for.
|
| > That's a hilarious sort of tech delusion that people make fun
| of
|
| Honestly, that seemed like something Mike Judge wrote if we had
| a new season of COVID based Silicon Valley, I can see the main
| character pitching something like:
|
| _Pied Piper now has a mood optimizer attached to your VR
| headset and relies on real-time data acquisition gathered from
| your fitbit to adjust the visuals to fit your Lifestyle!_
|
| I'm glad I left the Valley when I did. The collective mind-set
| there is not just delusional, its outright absurd and perhaps
| even dangerous. Having so many people unable to do even basic
| tasks outside of their controlled environment/World is a
| disaster waiting to happen.
|
| Honestly, I'm looking forward to the crazy twisted things
| coming out of Charlie Brooker's head right now for Black
| Mirror. I have a fan-art script I have been working on/off for
| years that probably would go really well in this social
| distancing era as it was about the emergence of people like
| this, and oddly enough I started writing it only months before
| this article came out in 2014:
|
| https://www.huffpost.com/entry/eating-in-front-of-webcam-sou...
| cosmodisk wrote:
| As long as it's not written in JS,right? Your friend's solution
| to the problem,while quite hilarious, shows a complete lack of
| understanding of how the world works among some techies. That's
| why we end up with AI based dog leash, remote juice press,or
| watches that do everything but show time...
| copperx wrote:
| Your friend must be hilarious. I don't think anyone would say
| something like that seriously.
| chongli wrote:
| I also knew someone who built an app to try to help depressed
| people. She was pretty serious about it. As a person who has
| battled depression off and on, I also found it difficult to
| believe someone would take such an app seriously.
| Mirioron wrote:
| It depends on what the app does though. One of the ways
| people cope with things like that is escapism. If your app
| can provide that then it can help some people. Eg a game or
| an app for stories, jokes etc.
|
| Another thing that can help with depression is exercise.
| But it's difficult to exercise while depressed. If you can
| somehow build an app that tricks people into exercising
| (like Pokemon Go "tricked" people into going outside) then
| that could help too.
|
| It's not as weird as it sounds.
| vmception wrote:
| > I remember thinking at the time how sometimes building an app
| isn't the solution to a problem.
|
| Is it ever?
|
| Let Apple and Google churn out that stuff. Let the rest of us
| sell shovels for $180k/yr to tech company founders. Or $500k/yr
| to Apple and Google.
| rohitb91 wrote:
| That's a hilarious sort of tech delusion that people make fun
| of
|
| Surely a react app is the only thing in the way between global
| peace and happiness and harmony, let's just make a nice webpage
| and raise hundreds of millions of dollars for it :)
| baddox wrote:
| It's also somewhat delusional to think that things will
| change if you just vote really hard and tell your friends to
| vote really hard.
| wavepruner wrote:
| "Sometimes the best solutions are the simplest, most
| straightforward, and the least innovative ones: voting in
| policymakers who craft empathetic public policy"
|
| This gets extraordinarily complicated because many political
| groups refuse to empathize with anyone who doesn't have the
| same life experience as themselves.
| pstrateman wrote:
| The same is happening in Canada, it's because addicts are able to
| get money from the government and they buy far more drugs than
| they're used to having.
|
| Edit: all the people downvoting me, why? not a single comment
|
| seriously, this isn't a theory, it's just the facts
|
| https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cerb-pandemic-opioid-addict...
| rohitb91 wrote:
| I've suspected it's the same and this is an extremely hard
| conversation to have.
|
| If Trudeau says 'he will take care of Canadians', how can
| anyone argue against that? He's a hero, he's sending out $2000
| to anyone with a social insurance number, based on the honour
| system. In practice, people began gaming it from day one,
| started groups telling each other how to game it, and soon the
| disconnect between CERB applicants and actual newly unemployed
| was in the millions.
|
| If you pass a policy that gets money in to the hands of
| Canadians, great, however, surely there should be some
| restrictions for those who can't handle any sort of money over
| $100 for their own health. Give a hard addict more than $100,
| and in a night they'll overdose. Give them, people skirting the
| line with full blown addiction, $2000, along with a border
| shutdown limiting supply and you have a recipe for a drug
| crisis.
|
| Unintended consequences are important to acknowledge too, and
| this I think is too hard to talk about, because how can you
| argue with someone who is just trying to take care of
| Canadians?
| Tiktaalik wrote:
| It's not this. After all to get CERB you need to show how
| you've been put out of work due to covid 19. How do you do this
| when you have no job or fixed address? How do you do this if
| you're a sex worker selling sex for survival and your
| occupation is illegal?
|
| A side effect of covid19 is that drugs have become more scarce
| and expensive due to the border shutdown. This may be having an
| impact.
| pstrateman wrote:
| That's the requirements for the program, but in practice
| anybody can get it.
|
| https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cerb-pandemic-opioid-
| addict...
| pstrateman wrote:
| > A side effect of covid19 is that drugs have become more
| scarce and expensive due to the border shutdown. This may be
| having an impact.
|
| Wait, less drugs, more overdoses... what?
| wolco wrote:
| This makes the most sense. Perhaps being forced inside away
| from someone who could say stop.
|
| Which raises the question would a basic income cause more
| misery for the general masses?
| ethanbond wrote:
| Potentially a factor, but don't you also think widespread
| unemployment and general trauma - collective and individual -
| could play a role?
| starkd wrote:
| Drug addiction will cause people to do truly unthinkable
| things. They get a wad of cash, the only thing they think
| about is drugs, and to hell with anything else. It's amazing
| how it re-prioritizes the structure of the brain.
| rohitb91 wrote:
| Were the drug addicts the ones that were employed beforehand?
| elchief wrote:
| For Vancouverites, you can get free take-home drug testing kits,
| here:
|
| http://www.vch.ca/public-health/harm-reduction/overdose-prev...
|
| There's not a _whole_ lotta point, since everything has Fentanyl
| in it these days, except pot (probably)
|
| And free Naloxone (Narcan) kits at Shopper's Drug Mart, London
| Drugs, and other places:
|
| https://towardtheheart.com/site-finder
|
| They only ask your age and whether this is your first kit. No ID
| required
|
| There were 131 overdose calls in Vancouver yesterday
| refurb wrote:
| It's only a matter of time before hard drugs are legalized,
| similar to marijuana. It'll probably take 20 years, but we will
| get there.
|
| I know Vancouver setup a legal opioid vending machine as a test
| run. Doctor checks you out, prescribes a legal opioid
| (hydromorphone in this case). You scan your badge and your dose
| pops out.
|
| No more stealing, prostituing, robbing, or other "hustle". You
| just take your dose. Much lower risk of overdose and far fewer
| complications from shooting street drugs.
|
| I've read about addicts in these types of programs and suddenly
| they don't have to hustle for 12 hours a day. They can get a
| job. Or, they just have the time to stop and think about their
| life and what direction they want it to go in.
|
| Not claiming it's a panacea at all. But it's better than the
| situation we're in now.
| kukx wrote:
| There are more and more reasons to open back the economy. Does it
| make sense to keep stalling? Most likely some people will avoid
| the infection this way, but at what cost to others.
| fzeroracer wrote:
| Texas is rapidly running out of capacity to treat patients.
| You're saying it's a good idea to 'open back the economy'
| knowing this?
|
| [1] https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/01/coronavirus-texas-
| ho...
| kukx wrote:
| In the same article: "Even as new cases and hospitalizations
| soar, the number of daily deaths in Texas has remained
| relatively low.".
|
| There may or may not be an increase of cases when the economy
| opens. While the former is more likely the latter is not out
| of the question, depending on whether the community will take
| precautions like wearing masks.
|
| However, if the economy stays closed, without a doubt, many
| lives will be negatively affected.
| fzeroracer wrote:
| Also from the same article: "But experts caution that
| rising hospitalizations today will likely result in a spike
| in deaths in the coming weeks, and those who require ICU
| care for COVID-19 but recover often leave the hospital with
| lasting health problems."
|
| Why did you ignore the line right after the statement you
| quoted? What we've seen over and over in each wave of the
| coronavirus is that the deaths lag behind the number of
| cases by a few weeks [1]. What you're arguing for is
| irrational and against the facts of the situation because
| the reason why we've seen an increase in cases is because
| our state opened up too early and too recklessly!
|
| How can you honestly argue that there won't be an increase
| of cases when the economy opens when we're facing down
| exactly that situation?
|
| [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-deaths-can-
| still...
| prostoalex wrote:
| From https://www.wsj.com/articles/masks-could-help-stop-
| coronavir...
|
| > Hong Kong, with 7.5 million residents, is one of the most
| densely populated places on earth, but recorded only six deaths
| from Covid-19 despite having no lockdown and receiving nearly
| 350,000,travelers a day from abroad until authorities started
| reducing cross-border travel on January 30.
|
| > The key secret of Hong Kong's success, Prof. Yuen said, is
| that the mask compliance rate during morning rush hour is 97%.
| The 3% who don't comply are mainly Americans and Europeans, he
| said.
|
| ...
|
| > The Czech Republic was the first European country to impose
| mandatory mask-wearing in some public spaces on March 18,
| before it recorded the first death by Covid-19. It has since
| reduced the number of daily new infections to below 50 and has
| one of the lowest coronavirus death rates in the world.
| maerF0x0 wrote:
| Back when this started I made the claim that the long term
| consequences of lock down would exceed the short term benefits .
|
| Depression, Drugs overdose, murder (despair), Suicide, extra
| sedentary issues leading to diabetese/CVD, loss of jobs/meaning
| et al.
|
| I havent seen anyone do the math of the uptick there to talk
| about the marginal benefit of lockdown or the fact that this,
| once again, is a form of biased benefit for the elderly at the
| expense of the younger (elderly more likely to die, younger more
| likely to suffer harder from lockdown)
| nostromo wrote:
| WHO has predicted hundreds of millions of people will risk
| starvation this year due to the economic ramifications of
| lockdowns.
|
| https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/pandemic-could-mean-260-mi...
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| There are _medical_ consequences to the lockdown also. Things
| like all the cancer screenings that didn 't happen because
| people weren't going to the doctor. And the people who died
| from heart attacks because they were afraid to go to the ER.
| Klinky wrote:
| Those aren't consequences of the _lockdown_ they 're
| consequences of a _pandemic_.
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| Of the two examples I gave you, I can agree on one. People
| afraid to go to the ER could be considered a consequence of
| the pandemic - the lockdown doesn't say "Don't go to the ER
| if you need to". But lockdown _did_ say "Don't make
| unnecessary trips to anywhere, not even the grocery store."
| Many of us interpreted that as avoiding unnecessary trips
| to the doctor also, which is why I for one have not had an
| annual physical so far this year.
| Klinky wrote:
| "Don't make unnecessary trips" isn't the same as "don't
| see your doctor for necessary medical intervention". Call
| your doctor, find out what they recommend, and/or use
| Teledoc.
|
| Regardless, if there was no lockdown, and medical systems
| were overwhelmed, like in New York, would you have been
| able to see your doctor then? Would you have wanted to go
| to an overcrowded ER or Urgent Care and wait for hours
| surrounded by infected patients?
| ianleeclark wrote:
| > Back when this started I made the claim that the long term
| consequences of lock down would exceed the short term benefits
| .
|
| And yet the USA will both have their cake and eat it too. You
| get both the full brunt of the virus alongside economic
| collapse.
|
| Instead of discussing the very real results of a demand
| collapse and how to address that, we get borderline eugenics
| posts attempting to throw more meat back into the grinder. Its
| all so incredibly abstract, these lives you want to sacrifice
| at your local Applebee's. But, hey, you're just worried about
| the long-term results--you're the caring one here. Those of us
| who want lockdown, were the ones causing the harm. Not the lack
| of a safety net, not the collapse of consensus, not the
| completely incompetent response, and never the fact that the
| copper has been so thoroughly stripped from the global supply
| chains that you couldn't even get enough masks into the country
| with a several months headstart.
| victorhooi wrote:
| I hear these sorts of sentiments from the USA a lot - where
| apparently people are actively rioting and protesting against
| the health lockdown.
|
| I'm from Australia - where while we've had some grumblings
| about the health measures, on the whole, we've been pretty
| lucky. Our death toll is 104 people - which even though
| (comparative) low is still a tragedy.
|
| Yet the USA death toll is over 130,000 people - that is a
| terrible thing =(. I do not get how the USA can be so blase
| about it.
|
| And that is _with_ measures in place (although I 'm sure there
| are breaches). Imagine if you simply let it run rampant, and
| let the health system get overhwelmed? (See Italy).
|
| It does seem like its overwhelming the young who are very laid
| back about COVID-19, and chaff the most at restrictions.
|
| To be frank - that seems very selfish.
|
| Imagine if the virus had a 30% mortality rate in your cohort?
| You'd be terrified.
|
| (I'm young, with two young kids under 5. My parents refused to
| see me or our kids for a couple of months, out of fear they
| might catch it from us - I missed them as did their grandkids,
| but I understand why - it must have been scary for them).
|
| And even that aside - have you considered that a lot of the
| economic downturn isn't from the actual health measures in
| place - but from the uncertainty, doubt and fear caused by a
| virus pandemic? People are scared, and that's naturally going
| to curb some spending. We are a interlinked global economy, and
| you cannot escape that.
|
| I hope that we'll have a vaccine soon, so we can go back to
| normal - but in lieu of that, trying to stamp out the virus or
| contain it isn't a bad goal.
| 1996 wrote:
| > To be frank - that seems very selfish.
|
| No, it seems logical: if the elderly are at risk, by all
| means, let them shelter at home and give them money without
| destroying the economy (as the elderly as less likely to be
| employed).
|
| Even better, for old people who need to work, give them full
| pay every week, and just ask them in return to stay at home
| and use uber eats.
|
| But we didn't do that. Too bad: it would still have saved a
| lot of money (and the actual economy)
|
| > I hope that we'll have a vaccine soon
|
| I will be generous enough to not claim my dose, to let you
| and others test it first, to make sure there are no
| autoimmune diseases or other bad things it can trigger
| victorhooi wrote:
| Also - I should mention - it's the job of governments to guide
| their people through these sorts of pandemics, natural
| disasters etc.
|
| This is why government are engaging in stimulus spending, or
| increasing their social support programs.
|
| This is why they exist.
| toiletfuneral wrote:
| my partner is a nurse so I just want to say fuck you
| chrisco255 wrote:
| Not to mention long term economic consequences of permanently
| (not sure how much of this social distancing thing will last
| after the pandemic is over) altering human connectivity. 15-25%
| unemployment in most developed economies right now. A lot of
| the activities people get enjoyment out of (dancing, concerts,
| church, school, etc) are completely shut down.
| p1mrx wrote:
| 40% seems low... how many more are just undiscovered? A lot of
| people stopped going to work / paying bills / attending events
| this year, so it's probably getting more difficult to notice when
| someone is dead.
| Tiktaalik wrote:
| Gotta love how everyone is applauding the wisdom of Dr. Bonnie
| Henry in her success in keeping the coronavirus under control in
| British Columbia and that of the government for following all her
| recommendations, and yet when Dr. Henry suggests that to tackle
| the opioid overdose epidemic, that BC needs to decriminalize
| drugs and create a safe supply of drugs for the addicted,
| suddenly everyone stops listening to her.
|
| Drug overdose deaths in BC in May eclipsed covid 19 deaths for
| the entire year. You'd think people would be a bit more concerned
| about drug overdoses and willing to listen to the provincial
| health officer and follow her recommendations.
|
| https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/overdose-dea...
| goatherders wrote:
| I live in Vancouver but am from Texas. I think the way they are
| dealing with the opiod issue in BC is on point and the right
| way to deal with the crisis.
| mtgp1000 wrote:
| People are stuck at home now, unemployed, fearful about the
| present and future, and if opioids were legalized now I have no
| doubt that dependence and overdoses would _surge_. Most people
| fundamentally don 't understand drugs or addiction.
|
| Granted I personally believe drugs should be at least
| decriminalized but I'm well aware that there will be a cost and
| people have a right to be opposed.
|
| If the last few months have taught me anything, it's that the
| average person really isn't capable of avoiding decisions that
| harm themselves and those around them with any consistency.
| Obviously we already have laws for murder and such but drugs
| also as it happens have a [lesser] external cost.
| mnm1 wrote:
| People are desperate. This is to be expected. Along with
| unemployment, loneliness, hopelessness, helplessness, stress,
| fear, and anxiety have all risen greatly. This is how people cope
| when they are not in control of their lives and especially when
| they don't see a path to regain that control. I would expect more
| of this. Drug overdoses were already a huge issue because of
| societal issues. Now, they will be even more so. In a society
| with no community and poor job prospects, prospects for the
| future look bleak. Can't really blame people for wanting
| something to console them in such bleak times. For many, it went
| from bleak to dire and horrific. The handling of the pandemic is
| just the latest way that society has failed so many.
|
| Being the richest country on earth and also the one with the
| worst virus situation can also lead to cognitive dissonance for
| many people. Envy of other places that are handling the situation
| better is another thing that can lead people to despair. As is
| having no leader or leadership, no direction, no goal, no plan,
| and no idea of what the future will bring.
|
| It's a nationwide disaster that people are simply not ready to
| deal with. Many people here have no idea what suffering is and
| therefore, they don't know how to suffer or how to get through
| such times. Suffering is externalized onto minorities and other
| unwanted people in society so that the well off don't have to
| deal with it. Now everyone's suffering and many simply can't cope
| with the suffering or with the additional suffering. Many resort
| to childish behaviors like refusing to wear masks or social
| distance to make themselves feel better by hurting others. A lot
| of people simply never grew up and now that suffering is
| inevitable, feel like they should be getting an exemption.
| ansible wrote:
| > _It 's a nationwide disaster that people are simply not ready
| to deal with. Many people here have no idea what suffering is
| and therefore, they don't know how to suffer or how to get
| through such times. Suffering is externalized onto minorities
| and other unwanted people in society so that the well off don't
| have to deal with it. Now everyone's suffering and many simply
| can't cope with the suffering or with the additional
| suffering._
|
| These are hard times, for all of us.
|
| My background: grew up in the USA, with typical public school
| education. When I was a kid in school, we (briefly) covered
| times like the protests against the Vietnam War, the Civil
| Rights Movement, Women's Suffrage, and such. But it all seemed
| distant to me back then. I knew, at an academic level, that the
| people fighting for change had a hard time... but we (as a
| nation) got through it, and made things better (well, maybe not
| really, but that's another discussion).
|
| We are _living_ through history, right here, right now. I can
| now see it from the other side. I can see a little more clearly
| what those people in the history books were going through. I
| now don 't have the benefit of reading in a book that it all
| worked out in the end (that women got the vote, that civil
| rights laws were passed, etc.).
|
| It may seem like it will never get any better. That the
| struggle for a brighter, better future for everyone is futile.
| That hate and stupidity will drag down this country, and that
| we'll never recover.
|
| Do we all have the courage to continue on? In the face of
| unfairness and injustice? What will the history books say about
| us 50 years from now?
| TheGrim-888 wrote:
| I'm not sure I agree with the statement that the US has the
| "worst virus situation".
|
| It has some of the most cases, sure, if you compare it by
| population though, it's still high, but it's not horrible. The
| US is #12 for cases per capita, most European countries are
| between 4,000-6,000 cases per capita, while the US is at 8,500,
| which is definitely more. But fewer people die per capita than
| in the UK, France, Spain, Sweden, Italy, and some other minor
| countries.
|
| It isn't like the US has orders of magnitude more infections
| per capita, and there's more people dying per capita in many
| other major countries. In such countries you'd have about the
| same chance of catching the virus, and a greater change of
| dying, as in the US.
|
| The majority of people that are refusing to wear masks are
| doing so because they believe the science/data supports that
| decision. You might disagree with that, and whether the
| science/data actually supports it is a different discussion,
| but they aren't just being "childish" and refusing to follow
| recommendations for no reason.
|
| I think there's obviously political power to gain in making the
| situation look as bad as possible, so that a group can then use
| that as a foothold to advance their own political policies.
| It's unfortunate that the issue is so political already. But
| you can easily tell when it's happening when people are
| referring to "society failing" and needing to "reshape society"
| and saying how horrible it is in the US when it really isn't
| that bad, etc. You can't advance new politics without a
| narrative of the old way of things being bad.
|
| I guess you can easily argue that there's political power for
| me to downplay the situation and make it look as good as
| possible, in order to prevent new politics from advancing. And
| that's true. But it's good to at least share both sides of the
| story.
| dkdk8283 wrote:
| Despair deaths will be the true toll of this pandemic. I feel
| very sorry for everyone who is getting screwed by the extreme
| response to the virus.
| lemonberry wrote:
| As a recovering alcoholic I'm incredibly grateful to have built
| a toolkit to stay sober. Getting sober is a nightmare in the
| best of times. People in AA - which I haven't attended
| regularly for a few years - talk about being a "grateful
| alchoholic". It bothered when I heard that. I just wanted to
| have some bourbon and not put myself and others at risk. But
| over time I realized that they're grateful because getting
| sober forced them to deal with life in healthier ways. Or to
| deal with it at all.
|
| While I don't think all of people that are overdosing are
| "addicts" per se, I know many non-addicts that don't deal well
| with life that great. Sure, they're fine when everything is
| going pretty well, but they fall down when the going gets
| tough.
|
| I feel for people. I've never felt despair or shame like I did
| when I hit bottom.
|
| Much luck and love to everyone out there. Life gets difficult,
| and sometimes it gets really, really difficult. Lean on people
| if you can, anyone that you can. Find a community if you can,
| online or not.
|
| I know this advice rings hollow when people are worried about
| putting food on the table or keeping a roof over their head or
| just trying to stay safe. But you can do this. Don't worry
| about thriving, just survive.
|
| Sorry, for the rambling, this just really hit home.
| wmeredith wrote:
| What's in your "stay sober toolkit" if you don't mind
| sharing?
| ideals wrote:
| This time period also seems to be radicalizing people at an
| accelerated rate. After that USAF military police sergeant
| murdered a cop and federal security officer I started
| investigating some of these communities and they're growing.
| Not just the right-wing "race war" types either. Both sides of
| the political spectrum are growing their radicalized bases.
|
| The communists and the facists types are both radicalizing
| around anti-government sentiment more than anything and we've
| seen real lives lost as a result.
|
| I hope things get better but everything is increasing in
| polarization at a time when people have a lot of free time and
| a country being consumed by an out of control virus that has
| been politicized.
|
| It's a recipe for disaster.
| joshspankit wrote:
| Just please watch out: the polarization you see on the
| internet (no matter where you see it) is rarely a reflection
| of the face-to-face reality. There is much more kindness and
| tolerance when people are face to face. Always has been.
|
| The danger, the reason I point this out, is that when people
| see too much of it on the internet they start to lose faith
| in humanity, and they start projecting that world view _on
| to_ the face to face interactions.
| eezurr wrote:
| If anyone here is "losing it" from your routine being destroyed
| and your city being shut down, I highly, highly recommend you
| take a week (preferably 2) off and do as much outdoor activity as
| possible. You should not return home during this period. This
| will reset your brain because it will break your new covid19
| routine with new activities and new location.
|
| When you come back, use this new state of mind to change your
| routine before you settle back into the state you were in before
| you left.
| Darmody wrote:
| I lived alone for 2 years but most of the day I was out, working
| and doing my stuff. Some weekends when I had nothing to do and no
| one to hang out with I kind of felt what loneliness is. Not that
| it was a big problem to me then as I can entertain myself with a
| good book, a game, some movies, etc, but several weeks of that
| would've been very different.
|
| Loneliness can hit you hard, very hard. And on top of that if you
| have any addiction and mental health problems...
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| Similar : moved cross country for work, felt for a few days
| lonely, then somehow thought "not as lonely as pets in
| shelters", adopted one, total improvement for both!
| Darmody wrote:
| Good to hear. Pets are amazing.
| lalos wrote:
| Well, right before the pandemic hit it was being reported that
| deaths of despair were up ticking so I doubt that trend has
| change with more pressure in the system.
|
| March 23: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/03/23/why-
| americans-...
| eezurr wrote:
| First thing when you open the article:
|
| >Suspected overdoses nationally jumped 18 percent in March, 29
| percent in April and 42 percent in May, data from ambulance
| teams, hospitals and police shows.
| drtillberg wrote:
| I'm cynical enough at this point to wonder whether the states
| will add these terrible losses to the COVID-19-related statistics
| to advocate for stricter and longer lock-downs.
| mrow84 wrote:
| What do you think motivates states to want stricter and longer
| lock-downs?
| Nasrudith wrote:
| Wanting the damn virus to die out and accepting that getting
| it spreading again will cause a longer pandemic. They expect
| patience to be rewarded by it staying gone like countries who
| did it right and are opening up borders selectively.
| kukx wrote:
| I guess some vocal voters may actually prefer free money,
| than going to a tedious work and politicians pander to them.
| ianleeclark wrote:
| Crazy to think someone would prefer unemployment to being
| coughed on by a jet ski salesman while waiting tables at a
| cheesecake factory.
| kukx wrote:
| I am not sure, if it is agreement or disagreement with my
| observation. And while I assume some people may genuinely
| be scared of the infection... It is hard not to notice
| that while the lockdown started the beaches were flooded
| with people. And I will not blame someone flipping
| burgers for preferring free money to their job. Having a
| low paid, boring job I would definitively prefer the free
| money and the free time. And I would probably even
| actively support the status quo. But it is nonetheless in
| the long term very harmful to the society and to the
| economic perspectives of normal people. The free money
| will be paid for in the years to come and it will be a
| long lasting burden. Maybe there will be some
| technological revolution, a great advancement in
| productivity that will help us mitigate this cost. But if
| not, the future looks painful.
| ianleeclark wrote:
| > But it is nonetheless in the long term very harmful to
| the society and to the economic perspectives of normal
| people.
|
| Why is it harmful to the economic prospects of people?
| Our economy literally relies on consumption. High rates
| of consumption.
|
| > The free money will be paid for in the years to come
| and it will be a long lasting burden.
|
| First thing: I reject the notion of "free money." It is
| money that is borrowed by people at time of crisis.
| Government works for the people, in theory, so it is the
| people borrowing the money from their descendants in
| order to weather a storm today without having a complete
| collapse.
|
| Secondly literally everything in our economy runs on
| debt. The idea is you outgrow your debt. If you want to
| have the whole "abolishing capitalism" conversation,
| that's a big suggestion to say the least, but the two
| ideas you're suggesting are either criminal or history
| defining:
|
| 1.) Just let all the poors die
|
| 2.) We have nothing to lose but our chains
|
| > But if not, the future looks painful.
|
| Were a sovereign nation we can literally just write it
| off.
| [deleted]
| yingw787 wrote:
| Aren't states prematurely lifting lockdowns to horrific
| infection increases due to budgetary concerns?
| fragmede wrote:
| I think so. Individual states don't control federal monetary
| policy, so the failure to pass additional stimulus packages
| so far means that state governments are in a precarious
| financial state, much like many of us are, personally, and
| any corporations we're involved with. Even in states with
| with the political will to continue benefits packages that
| would allow people to continue not working in service of
| public health, aren't able to afford to do so.
| nxc18 wrote:
| States have been chomping at the bit to end their lockdowns.
| The fact that cases are spiking again is precisely because
| states were too eager to end their lockdowns.
|
| China had a brutal lockdown early and thanks to that they are
| now largely back in business. Anti-lockdown sentiment early on
| is precisely the reason the US has had to prolong its
| suffering. The reason long lockdowns are happening is because
| we can't muster strict.
| starkd wrote:
| The lockdowns in China were indeed brutal, and involved a use
| of force that simply would not be acceptable in the U.S. But
| even there, there's evidence it was much more severe than the
| officials let on, and there was a rebound after reopening.
| They are very secretive about it though.
| nxc18 wrote:
| It doesn't have to be China-style brutal. It can also be
| strict and effective, like what was done in much of Europe.
|
| With a competent western-style government you can have
| great results. See New Zealand. What matters is not how
| authoritarian the country is, but how seriously the
| lockdown is taken.
| Darmody wrote:
| Let's not forget the massive protests. No matter if you agree
| with them or not. Thousands of people together on the streets
| with no security distance between them makes things worse.
| commandlinefan wrote:
| > had a brutal lockdown early and thanks to that they are now
| largely back in business
|
| Wait, that doesn't make sense - are you saying that they
| locked down long enough that everybody who had the virus
| "lost it" (either by getting healthy or dying)? That doesn't
| sound very plausible given what we know about epidemiology.
| The lockdown was sold here as a way to "flatten the curve":
| everybody who would have gotten it will still get it, but not
| all at once, so the hospitals won't be overwhelmed. Is
| anybody claiming that China's lockdown actually eradicated
| the virus within its borders entirely?
| Jtsummers wrote:
| > The lockdown was sold here as a way to "flatten the
| curve": everybody who would have gotten it will still get
| it, but not all at once, so the hospitals won't be
| overwhelmed.
|
| The lockdown was intended to do two things, not one:
|
| 1. What you say, reduce the rate of spread. The popular
| "flatten the curve" thing, which, when grossly simplified,
| suggests that if 1 million people were going to get it it
| was inevitable, but we could spread it out over months
| instead of weeks.
|
| 2. Reduce the total number of people exposed and thus
| reduce the total number who would eventually get it.
|
| The disease is not inevitable for anyone, it is not
| inevitable that 70% of the population (picking an arbitrary
| figure here) would get the disease. It is inevitable that
| it was going to spread, and with proper controls that
| spread could be changed both in rate and total number
| infected.
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| Entirely? No. Nobody (I think) is claiming that.
|
| But if you lock down so that each infected person, on
| average, infects less than one new person, and you do it
| long enough, then yes, you can completely eliminate the
| virus that way. And yes, that is perfectly consistent with
| what we know about epidemiology.
|
| The cure may literally be worse than the disease, but we
| could do that.
|
| But there comes a point where the number of cases is small
| enough that you use testing and contact tracing to do the
| rest.
| fzeroracer wrote:
| The point of flattening the curve is keeping the curve
| flat. No one anywhere has eradicated the virus, but through
| the strict initial lockdown plus constant vigilance on part
| of both the government and the individuals they can keep
| the curve flat and stop it from going exponential.
|
| The problem is that once we flattened the curve, we decided
| to go hogwild, masks off, open up everything and now we get
| to pay the price for that.
|
| Texas is a great example of that where our state government
| behaved like absolute jackoffs and now we're seeing a
| massive amount of new cases and increased pressure on
| hospitals. But people assumed that 'we're far below
| capacity! the lockdown is pointless!' as if the lockdown
| wasn't the reason for that in the first place.
| wolco wrote:
| I believe the reason is because it was in the US for much
| longer than thought. Somewhere summer last year on it started
| to spread undetected.
| chrisco255 wrote:
| Deaths are still on the way down in Georgia, one of the
| earliest states to re-open: https://ga-
| covid19.ondemand.sas.com/
|
| I would say, excessive lockdowns are not effective at
| fighting the virus. You win a short term victory at the cost
| of your long term future. You can kick the can down the road,
| but as soon as you re-open, if you haven't achieved herd
| immunity, the virus will spike again. That's going to happen
| to any country, anywhere.
|
| As for China, we have no real idea of how much death or cases
| they have there. And from what I witnessed in Wuhan, where
| residents were bolted into their apartment complexes and
| barred from leaving, and whisked away from their homes at the
| first sign of a fever...I do not wish that on any free
| person. That is what happens when you live in a Communist
| prison state. I'll take liberty with all the risks that
| implies over Chinese tyranny any day.
| Jtsummers wrote:
| Deaths are down in GA, but cases are on the rise which
| means that deaths will probably start rising again over the
| next 2 weeks. They've had 3500 new cases just today.
| Jtsummers wrote:
| I'm a bit confused by this. By my reading of the reopenings and
| behavior of state governments, many, if not most, state
| governments _want_ to reopen. They 're struggling financially
| since people aren't working or visiting the states to provide
| tax revenue. Most of my teacher friends have been in calls with
| their district administration where cutbacks (either in
| personnel or across the board pay cuts) have been discussed
| seriously.
|
| At this point, states want shorter lock downs and the ones that
| have reinstituted (partially or in whole) the previous lock
| down orders have done so because of rising case numbers
| (largely due, it seems, to people behaving as if there were no
| reason to continue social distancing or wearing masks).
|
| Which state governments do you think _want_ to continue the
| shutdowns and cripple their economies?
| travisporter wrote:
| I'd wager parent believes it's Democratic state
| governments/officials. Why is it that anyone arguing online
| believes the world is either communist or pure capitalist,
| and nothing in between. I'm glad we don't live there.
|
| OK, rant over.
| [deleted]
| modriano wrote:
| We haven't had real lockdowns anywhere. We've had please-stay-
| home recommendations.
|
| If we had a sufficiently strict lockdown early on, we could
| have brought transmission down to near 0, identified all new
| cases (and quarantined them away from the healthy population),
| set up strict testing at every border/airport, and been
| basically back to normal in 2 months, like China was. These
| deaths of despair are just another consequence of the Trump
| administration's total failure to grab the bull by the horns
| and come up with a plan. Trump's refusal to act forced state
| and city governments to figure out how to handle this, which
| created a major conflict of interests. State and city
| governments are largely funded by sales taxes, so shutting down
| bars/restaurants/retail/events/etc takes a crucial funding
| source away from state/city govts, but to stop transmission of
| the virus, those businesses can't be open. State/city govts
| can't print money like the Federal govt, and the GOP Senators
| are refusing to provide funds to state/city govts, which lead
| to the current explosion in case counts, which will just keep
| this going longer.
|
| TL,DR: we absolutely need stricter management of this, or it
| will drag on forever.
| dylan604 wrote:
| What are you on about? States are not reporting accurate
| numbers because they're wanting to re-open. I'm cynical in
| thinking that these numbers won't get reported as COVID related
| deaths for the simple reason the virus wasn't the cause of
| death even though they are results of the overall effect of the
| pandemic.
| WilTimSon wrote:
| Hardly a surprise, I'm sure suicide rates and alcohol consumption
| are going up as well. It's a combination of loneliness, lack of
| supervision (can't find a better word, I mean someone who could
| help in case of an overdose), despair about the future. This
| pandemic is unprecedented for the modern people, many don't have
| the means to deal with it psychologically.
| BurningFrog wrote:
| > _I 'm sure suicide rates and alcohol consumption are going up
| as well._
|
| Many of these overdoses surely _are_ suicides.
| redisman wrote:
| Relentless doom and despair for at least a year with no
| leadership or hope in sight and the only thing you can do to
| help is to stay at home as much as possible. Yeah it's the
| perfect storm for any "self-medicators" out there.
| starkd wrote:
| A doom and gloom from the media isn't helping either. It's one
| thing to provide information, but the endless speculation about
| "how bad its going to get" is irresponsible.
| Mirioron wrote:
| I would say the media is one of the larger factors (after
| factors such add unemployment though). When you can't go out
| and mingle with other people a lot of the information some
| people get about what's going on is from the media.
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