[HN Gopher] Noprocrast
___________________________________________________________________
Noprocrast
Author : ChankeyPathak
Score : 139 points
Date : 2020-07-25 14:44 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (tutswiki.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (tutswiki.com)
| chinathrow wrote:
| I have (had!) a similar setup via /etc/hosts blocking HN and
| other sites. Entering a quick sudo gedit /etc/hosts has been so
| common, that my plan utterly failed.
|
| I then blocked some sites on the router. Too bad the cell phone
| has a decent 4G connection... oh well.
| sirodoht wrote:
| Disabling access from /etc/hosts has been very useful for me,
| though my similar [1] productivity script did not work as well as
| I wanted it.
|
| For quite some time I had been using hostess [2] to
| enable/disable specific websites, yet this too had a couple of
| problems.
|
| 1. Docker Desktop (macOS) keeps appending on my /etc/hosts
| without asking me when I start it. This requires usage of
| `hostess fix` to remove duplicate entries.
|
| 2. Changing /etc/hosts requires sudo access, which means I have
| to keep inputting it when I need to make any changes.
|
| Eventually I just `vim /etc/hosts` instead of `sudo hostess fix
| && sudo hostess on news.ycombinator.com`
|
| [1] https://github.com/sirodoht/productivity.sh
|
| [2] https://github.com/cbednarski/hostess
| [deleted]
| curiousgal wrote:
| You can use the NOPASSWD directive in your
| /etc/sudoers
|
| file to allow hostess to run in sudo without auth.
| chooseaname wrote:
| gasmask on mac allows you to swap /etc/host files also.
| croutonwagon wrote:
| I messed around with the settings in HN the other day and managed
| to enable the procrastination settings. Was locked out for a
| couple hours....
|
| That's what I get for just toggling things. It's been a habit
| since I was a child, if we visited a house or rented a car I
| would flip any switch or touch any button or knob I could reach.
| [deleted]
| danicgross wrote:
| I used to have script that would gradually dim my display unless
| I typed.
|
| The broader issue for me isn't a particular website. It's brain-
| dead consumption of feeds. Typing guarantees that you're thinking
| a little.
|
| Even with email, it made me less likely to overthink things. It
| gave a bias to action. Keep moving, keep typing.
|
| I had a whitelist of exceptions (IntelliJ, Terminal, etc).
|
| Unfortunately the script broke a few years ago. I keep on meaning
| to fix it but I've been too busy reading feeds.
| e40 wrote:
| Operating system on which it ran?
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| I've been trying various "noprocrast" approaches over the years,
| including /etc/hosts and HN's own noprocrast settings. The one
| that finally worked for me was disabling distractions directly on
| the router - it covers all my computers, as well as my phone. I
| set it so that distracting sites are disabled during work hours
| (Monday-Friday, 08:00 - 18:00).
|
| More details about implementation:
| http://jacek.zlydach.pl/blog/2020-05-25-blocking-distraction....
| baxtr wrote:
| You could still change to LTE on your phone. Just sayin...
| dmix wrote:
| I find some phone use to be fine, the worst productivity
| breaker is tabbing to Reddit/HN/etc when you were focusing.
| Switching to your phone is already enough to a break from
| focusing where it's not a big deal. Plus you could just leave
| it in another room.
|
| It's like what doctors recommend for bad sleep habits is to
| keep the bedroom/bed for sleeping only - don't spend hours
| using screens or eating in bed, then your body will have an
| easier association with sleeping + the mental habit. Likewise
| laptop + work hours = worktime. If you want to take a break
| stand up and check your phone or whatever.
|
| "Perfection is the enemy of good" anyway, you don't need to
| go all out.
|
| The primary point is using editing /etc/hosts (with `sudo
| chattr +i /etc/hosts` write locking to go further) is enough
| of a hassle for most of the time to break a negative loop. No
| need to make it impossible, the larger goal is self-
| discipline.
| roywashere wrote:
| +1! Six months ago I added reddit, hacker news, Twitter and
| two of my favorite news sites to /etc/hosts mapping to
| localhost. I use those sites exclusively on mobile. I still
| accidentally open a tab out of habit from time to time, but
| go back to productive matters quickly.
| unicornporn wrote:
| Doesn't that break with DNS over HTTPS (default on Firefox
| these days)?
| eddyg wrote:
| Not if you run pi-hole (which to be clear, runs in Docker
| just fine...) which includes the canary domain to disable
| this _when it's on by default_ :
|
| https://github.com/pi-hole/pi-hole/pull/2915
| thom wrote:
| I have found few things as effective as shutting down my X server
| and just working in Emacs in the console. Obviously less useful
| if you're doing web stuff (although NetSurf exists).
| saagarjha wrote:
| Do you not have to search for things online usually?
| oefrha wrote:
| M-x eww.
|
| (Then you discover M-x eww https://news.ycombinator.com, back
| to square one.)
| thom wrote:
| It's painful enough that I don't use it for social stuff,
| but most programming documentation (and Stack Overflow etc)
| renders well enough that it's functional when you need it.
| mmcgrana wrote:
| This post was scraped from my old technical blog:
| http://web.archive.org/web/20100423003857/http://mmcgrana.gi...
|
| Looks like the site has a few other scraped posts as well.
|
| FWIW I no longer use this exact noprocrast(1) approach to
| avoiding procrastination, but do apply the same basic idea.
| Apocryphon wrote:
| I don't know if the OP is even on Facebook, but I it noteworthy
| that it's not on their list of sample blocked sites. I don't find
| FB to be addictive either, unlike a lot of people. Usually when I
| check it, I find myself a quick skim of notifications and the
| newsfeed to be sufficient, really just a minute or two a day. It
| runs counter to the popular narrative of Facebook addiction.
|
| Anyone else feel that way? I wonder if it's because Facebook has
| no longer become a place for novel content, and there's an
| aversion to lingering on it. Of course this is my personal
| opinion, but I do think it's easier to find topical content on
| Twitter and HN, and so they're more distracting and worth
| blocking.
| rikroots wrote:
| I have a Facebook addiction. I post something; I crave
| feedback. When I get feedback, it's like a little jab of
| oxytocin to my system.
|
| Twitter, Linkedin - I don't have the same problem. I post
| something (when I remember, which isn't often) and then forget
| about it. I can go weeks without checking LinkedIn. I tried
| Instagram and just didn't 'get it'. Reddit annoys me. TikTok
| scares me - I tend to avoid mirrors at the best of times, so
| the thought of short video clips of me floating in the aethers
| ... it's never going to happen.
|
| I'm probably a little addicted to HN; I have no desire to cure
| myself of the site just yet. I'm not convinced that blocking
| the site in my browsers/devices would help me if I wanted to
| cure myself - I'd probably end up spending time trying to
| subvert the blocks (as a learning exercise, of course).
| zarkov99 wrote:
| yes, but it all changes the moment one posts something, no
| matter how inane. Then narcissism makes it almost impossible to
| stop checking it.
| derefr wrote:
| I don't find any reason to repetitively check a post on
| Facebook (or Instagram / any of the other image/video sharing
| platforms.) If I put something up, I can go back and find out
| what my "final earnings" in social-capital were days/weeks
| later. There's no _urgency_ to that. It 's not like the stock
| market; it's not going to suddenly start dropping. It just
| rises until it plateaus.
|
| I find places where I leave _comments_ (like Reddit, or HN,
| but Twitter also works this way) a lot worse for this
| "addiction via narcissism" aspect. On these services, your
| post/comment doesn't _only_ get more and more popular; it may
| also be _rebutted_ by a reply (not necessarily made in good
| faith), at which point it might start getting _less_ popular,
| possibly dipping into the negatives if the reply 's
| reinterpretation paints you in a bad-enough light. Because of
| this, there's a feeling of having to watch for these replies,
| and leap to defend your post against them, so that the
| reply's interpretation of your words doesn't "win out"
| against your own actual meaning (which may not always have
| been perfectly clear from your original, succinct wording.)
|
| That's "narcissism" too, in a much stronger sense of what
| Narcissistic Personality Disorder means: the obsessive
| paranoia over _losing_ social capital, due to being perceived
| as having committed a social faux-pas, that leads one to
| avoid taking social risks, and perhaps even lying to make
| oneself seem more "middle-of-the-road" within one's social
| cluster than one actually is in private.
| zarkov99 wrote:
| Oh, yes, sure, I was not really distinguishing posts from
| comments. Either works by attracting the attention of
| others in a public setting. In that context the effects of
| both praise and reproach are amplified enormously and
| otherwise sane people can't help but continuously engage,
| as you say.
| sudhirj wrote:
| Yes, I've long known that imaginary internet points are the
| only things that fill the void in my soul. I'm quite
| embarrassed to say that I go and re-read all my HN comments
| if I'm feeling low.
| organsnyder wrote:
| Funny--I re-read my HN comments if I'm thinking too highly
| of myself.
| zarkov99 wrote:
| Shhh, we do not talk about such things.
| diminish wrote:
| Disabling internet is fine How do you disable games?
| occamschainsaw wrote:
| Freedom[1] allows you to block apps but it is a paid service.
| [1] https://freedom.to
| bgutierrez wrote:
| On Facebook, most of the friends and family I used to know have
| been reduced to the memes and shares that flow through them.
|
| Twitter, on the other hand, will have me doomscrolling every
| single time.
| awild wrote:
| I've just deleted my reddit account because I found none of the
| communities I am interested in bearable anymore. But somehow
| Facebook keeps being the main source of interesting information
| for me.
|
| I've unsubbed from most people and keep my friend list
| extremely slim (less than 200 people over ~10y of usage, with
| extensive pruning). Its basically a news aggregator for me, and
| additionally a way to connect with the communities I am
| involved in (which are niche (home) brewing groups). The groups
| are surprisingly untoxic but that's entirely down to the
| awesome moderators and the scientifically minded people they
| manage to attract.
|
| I think the usage of mostly real names also helps knowing the
| people better than just some random nickname and knowing where
| (if even) they work.
| zitterbewegung wrote:
| I've tried various versions of Noprocrast as a chrome and safari
| extensions.
|
| I feel like that it falls into the category of that it will be
| 50/50 that it will work for you or not.
|
| For me I would eventually circumvent the whole thing anyways. You
| may also want to think about why you are procrastinating? Then
| figure out how to alleviate that.
| ausbah wrote:
| a side note, but a dimple but effective strategy I use for
| getting of time consuming websites is to just use a password
| manager for all my accounts on those sites. logging out of those
| accounts, and having the password only be accessible via another
| long and complicated password (to access the password vault) is
| usually enough of a barrier in the moment
| AndrewOMartin wrote:
| I did a combination of this strategy and the one in the
| article. I changed my hosts file, then changed my root password
| to something with ~20 characters, then I gave the password to
| my wife (coworker would have also worked) and told them not to
| let me have it before 6pm. In cases I need to install something
| I just had to convince them of the necessity.
|
| The human element really worked wonders compared to a poorly
| technical solution.
| JadeNB wrote:
| > coworker would have also worked
|
| I think some consideration of the social aspect here is
| required. I agree that part of a marriage is agreeing to help
| one another in these small accountabilities, but, if a random
| coworker tried to impose this on me, I would not appreciate
| even the small imposition on my time. It's not, and shouldn't
| be, my job to help a random coworker stop procrastinating.
|
| ... But maybe you meant "a coworker who is also a friend", in
| which case it's fine; but still then I'd argue that the
| important point is that you could give it to a _friend_ , not
| that you give it to a coworker. In fact, even from a selfish
| point of view, the friendship is important: if a coworker
| asks this of me who isn't already a friend, then I'm less
| likely to spend energy in arguing with any password request,
| and so will simply grant it reflexively.
| [deleted]
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| What happens when you need to perform other administrative
| tasks on your machine?
| AndrewOMartin wrote:
| I just had to make the case to my wife/coworker. The nature
| of this technique is that it works best when you don't have
| much serious administration to do and just have to grind
| out a lot of writing.
| Wistar wrote:
| My solution is to change the password of time-suck sites by
| closing my eyes, typing in the password and cut-paste to
| confirm.
|
| I find I do not miss them.
| Funes- wrote:
| Only a strong sense of purpose and an equally strong will to
| sacrifice everything we use to evade oursleves from our own lives
| will keep procrastination at bay. Nothing else creates deeply
| rooted meaning. Nothing else really works.
|
| Putting hurdles between us and our distractions will, at worst,
| start a vicious cycle of circumventing them and putting them up
| again; at best, make us dependent on them so we resort back to
| our bad habits whenever we can't make use of those mechanisms--
| back to square one.
| saagarjha wrote:
| Hacker News also has a noprocrast feature that's designed to keep
| you away from the site for a while if you've been using the site
| for too long. It's a little buggy with how it does detection,
| though, so I have it turned off.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| I don't think it's buggy, but it's probably _too simple_. From
| my observation, it just starts the counter on any HTTP request
| (with appropriate session data in it, of course). This means if
| you have HN open on a mobile phone and /or you have lots of
| tabs, there may be spurious reloads happening even when you're
| not looking at the page - all of which will start the
| noprocrast timer.
| 0xCMP wrote:
| Yep. I had mine at like 30m and then 120m block and so if I
| accidentally loaded it like you said I would be like "oh crap
| this is my chance!" and load every single story I could into
| tabs before it would block me. Mobile is a great example but
| also when Chrome has a tab but it isn't loaded in memory
| anymore.
|
| It did work, but it had some counter intuitive failures too.
| lucumo wrote:
| 10 years and some months ago I used that setting to try and
| permanently remove myself from this site. I set it to 1 visit
| in 10 years.
|
| It did stop me posting; I still wasted my time reading the site
| though. You can visit the site anonymously. A half win, I
| guess.
|
| 10 years felt like such a long time back then, nearly forever.
| kissgyorgy wrote:
| You can do this with Pihole blacklist, which not only apply this
| to your current machine, but your whole network.
| tarulahsan wrote:
| Great tool. i think i can use it for my kids
| Darmody wrote:
| I added Reddit and some other sites to my uBlock blacklist
| because most of the time I would end up there unwillingly.
|
| Control + t (new tab), red (autocomplete to reddit) and enter.
| Muscular memory.
|
| Now uBlock tells me that the site is locked, I realize what I'm
| doing and I close the tab. That muscle memory is now gone.
|
| Sometimes duckduckgo returns me some useful reddit links and
| uBlock gives me the option to allow it temporally which is a few
| minutes. So even if I start messing around after a while it
| blocks me again.
| wott wrote:
| That method didn't work for me (if I am thinking of the same
| thing you are describing, not sure). I would soon routinely
| unblock Reddit, so the block would become useless in achieving
| its purpose and become just an annoying extra layer.
|
| So what I did then was blocking specific subs (well, one
| actually, my national sub) in which I felt compelled to correct
| people all the time. On each browser on each computer I use, I
| installed an extension like "Silent Block" which allows to
| blacklist the URL you want with a regex (".*
| reddit.com/r/yourmostlovedandhatedsub.* "). Unlike /etc/hosts
| and similar methods, you don't have to block a whole domain,
| the control is finer.
|
| So I can still freely view technical or whatever subs with
| which I don't feel engaged, and follow links to Reddit from
| search engine or other sites.
|
| It's been over 1 year that I set up this system, and I never
| bypassed it. It's working fine for me.
|
| Or perhaps Ublock blacklist allows this kind of 'fine grain'
| blocking too?
| Darmody wrote:
| As far as I know you can block certain subreddits, yes.
| FPGAhacker wrote:
| I had to do the same with a number of my favorite news sites,
| including hacker news, while I'm working.
|
| It was shocking how many times I would open the browser to
| Google something and find myself reading stupid political news
| instead of working.
|
| I also installed a cli google searcher. That was helpful too.
| Darmody wrote:
| Yes, it's mind blowing how much of my procrastination is pure
| muscle memory and routine.
| jgilias wrote:
| Fwiw, I've found that the inversion approach of fighting
| procrastination works considerably better for me. So, instead of
| trying to not do something I try to do something instead. In more
| detail this means focusing on achieving a certain amount of deep
| work hours per day. First this means that I have to condition
| myself to want to do deep work in the first place. Rereading the
| first few pages of the book from time to time helps with this
| part.
|
| Also, if the last thing I think about before falling asleep is
| about what it is that I wanted to do next, then the next day
| starting to do meaningful work is a lot easier, as I actually
| feel like I want to try this thing I thought about. Keeping a
| work logbook is another good method in being able to start up
| easier, as you can just pick the easiest item in the list and do
| that. Once the ball starts rolling and you get deeper in the
| zone, then procrastination is rarely much of a problem.
| caleb-allen wrote:
| I'm with you on this. Doing something is much easier than
| resisting something.
|
| That said, I also do something like OP to block out some sites,
| but that really only is important as I "get the ball rolling".
| I noticed myself habitually tabbing to twitter or something
| whenever I got to a "hard part"
| ashton314 wrote:
| This is great. I might start using this.
|
| I really appreciate that HN has a noprocrast tool. I've also used
| Apple's Screen Time feature to help me break away from
| distractions. While I feel such tools are crutches for good self-
| control, _I_ am not yet disciplined enough to not need them some
| times.
|
| Facebook claims to care about its users. I think that's hogwash.
| If FB _actually_ cared I think they would have settings to
| enforce limits on engaging with their platform. But of course
| they have no incentive to do that because it cuts into their
| revenue stream. Apple has little problem putting limit tools in
| place because they get money just when you buy the device--not
| necessarily every time you use it.
| gavreh wrote:
| Here are some good, maintained lists:
| https://github.com/jmdugan/blocklists
| punnerud wrote:
| Run this on a Raspberry Pi in combination with DNSmasq, and point
| your routers DNS to Raspberry. Then you have a universal solution
| for all your devices at home, and that works for Chrome+Firefox.
| Most routers can have 2x different WiFi SSID with different DNS-
| settings, so you don't get complains from your loved ones.
| zucker42 wrote:
| There's a browser extension called "Leechblock" that I use and is
| good for this purpose.
| idclip wrote:
| I too had my go at this, and it was very effective
|
| Checkout these two files
|
| https://github.com/Shokodemon/smallhacks/blob/master/sh/depr...
|
| https://github.com/Shokodemon/smallhacks/blob/master/sh/proc...
| raldi wrote:
| echo `date`
|
| could be expressed as just date
| puttycat wrote:
| The only no-procrast tool that is absolute and unforgiving enough
| to actually stop me from procrastinating is Self Control [1]
| (MacOS only afaik). Anything else which offers an escape hatch
| will always be useless for professional procrastinators.
|
| [1] https://selfcontrolapp.com/
| tambourine_man wrote:
| Oh my god, this is hilarious:
|
| Q: How do I disable SelfControl once it has started?
|
| You can't. That's the idea. Just wait.
|
| "But, but but..." you say.
|
| Seriously, chill out. It's not the end of the world.
|
| The timer will run out and the internet will come back again.
| In the meantime, you may find comfort in curling up in a ball
| under your desk and rocking back and forth for a while.
|
| ---
|
| The whole FAQ is worth reading, but that one just cracked me
| up.
|
| https://github.com/SelfControlApp/selfcontrol/wiki/FAQ
|
| "Until that timer expires, you will be unable to access those
| sites--even if you restart your computer or delete the
| application."
|
| That's... intense.
| vsskanth wrote:
| Can someone please help me with how to achieve the same thing on
| windows that works on any browser ? I tried some DNS blocking
| programs and can't get anything to work properly.
| godtoldmetodoit wrote:
| I'm a user of Rescue time, which has a subscription component.
|
| Definitely a fan of the service, works for me to help me get in
| a flow state and worth the few bucks they ask for.
| falcor84 wrote:
| Can't you do the same by modifying
| c:\Windows\System32\Drivers\etc\hosts ?
| vsskanth wrote:
| I tried this and it doesn't seem to work on https
| Sebb767 wrote:
| Are you using Firefox with DNS-over-https?
| vsskanth wrote:
| Didn't work on Firefox, chrome or edge. I haven't enabled
| DNS over https specifically, just stock install
| Shared404 wrote:
| Firefox at least has DNS over https enabled by default.
| f00zz wrote:
| Back when I was forced to work on windows I'd add rules to the
| default windows firewall. E.g. to block twitter I'd add a rule
| to drop all outbound packets to 104.244.40.0/21.
| elektor wrote:
| You can install NextDNS and use their blacklist feature to
| block distracting websites.
| notRobot wrote:
| Seconded. This works really well.
| sixhobbits wrote:
| I know someone who had the same problem and didn't want to pay
| for one of the subscription apps so he built his own [0].
| Looked great from the demo he showed me but I don't have
| Windows so I haven't tried it personally.
|
| [0] https://lazarfocused.com/
| ChankeyPathak wrote:
| I liked ColdTurkey software back when I was using Windows.
| dugmartin wrote:
| I've been using this for years, both to block sites and to
| setup local dev servers: https://hostsfileeditor.com/ - its
| free and open source.
| majkinetor wrote:
| http://www.abelhadigital.com/hostsman/
| vsskanth wrote:
| Didn't work. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong
| satvikpendem wrote:
| I've tried this but browsers like Chrome (and perhaps Firefox as
| well) will ignore the hosts file and use Google's DNS servers to
| resolve sites that are blocked by hosts.
| darkhorn wrote:
| Why 127.0.0.1? It shows my website.
| nojs wrote:
| The problem with this approach is HN, reddit are necessary for
| work. I search HN all the time for technical info to avoid the
| blogspam and SEO marketing crap on Google. For me, the key to
| managing procrastination has been accountability - tracking my
| time and making myself radically accountable to friends I
| respect.
| readarticle wrote:
| For a natural & organic form of noprocrast, one can also try
| cultivating a crippling phone / tablet addiction that reduces any
| device with a keyboard to "work".
|
| Actually works quite well provided you keep the drugs in another
| room, it's a shame I'm an iOS developer.
| pandatigox wrote:
| There are also the apps, Self Control available for MacOS[1] and
| Cold Turkey[2], which is an universal app.
|
| [1]: https://selfcontrolapp.com/ [2]: http://getcoldturkey.com/
| fbelzile wrote:
| Maker of Cold Turkey here, thanks for sharing it! If anyone has
| questions about the app, let me know :)
| CodeWriter23 wrote:
| SelfControl is a free hosts file based blocker with some added
| features that prevent you from undoing your own blocks until the
| specified time period has elapsed.
|
| https://selfcontrolapp.com/
| tangoalpha wrote:
| Deleted
| smegma2 wrote:
| I don't think this is particularly relevant to the post.
| mnd999 wrote:
| Do you have a script to stop you procrastinating by writing
| scripts though?
| Shared404 wrote:
| https://imgur.com/a/Xmy7qgW
| buzzerbetrayed wrote:
| Lol. This is exactly what I need.
| henearkr wrote:
| Anything requiring sudo or su is not enough: too easy to just
| take the habit to type the password very fast.
|
| What I've found that works is using the command "lockout" with
| some weird modification of the sudoers file in order to allow
| only certain commands with sudo (or other commands with only
| certain arguments not matching forbidden patterns).
| jwally wrote:
| I actually built a password manager for myself that charges me
| $$ every time I want to access an addictive site
| (addictionlocker.com) _literally_ because I 'd do just this.
| JadeNB wrote:
| It doesn't stop it in the moment, but logging the date to
| ~/.procrasts does provide at least some after-the-fact
| accountability. I think a lighterweight initial approach is
| good, and, if logging reveals that it's abused, then one can
| move to harder-to-circumvent solutions.
| henearkr wrote:
| Aw nice, I hadn't noticed the log file trick!
| jawzz wrote:
| Another approach is to block the websites in your router
| settings and to make that password very long, assuming you
| don't need to access it as often as sudo.
| henearkr wrote:
| Nice idea, thanks. I have to check that my router can do
| that.
| ISL wrote:
| Thanks for the catalyst to re-enable my /etc/hosts approach to
| simplifying my life.
|
| I'm surprised to see that adding: 127.0.0.1
| youtube.com www.youtube.com
|
| to /etc/hosts doesn't seem to block youtube, but every other line
| I added blocked/routed as expected. Is there something special
| about youtube and chromium?
| [deleted]
| aeruder wrote:
| IPV6 can cause some issues around this because browsers will
| typically do an IPV4 and IPV6 lookup in parallel. Try adding a
| ::1 youtube.com www.youtube.com
|
| also.
| smegma2 wrote:
| Yes, some sites are more resilient somehow. I experience the
| same thing with twitter. You could try flushing your dns cache
| but IIRC that didn't even work for me.
| ISL wrote:
| It has now started blocking correctly. Must have needed
| something to get flushed.
|
| Back to it. $ noprocrast.sh
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