[HN Gopher] 'Success Addicts' Choose Being Special over Being Happy
___________________________________________________________________
'Success Addicts' Choose Being Special over Being Happy
Author : pseudolus
Score : 138 points
Date : 2020-07-31 10:20 UTC (12 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theatlantic.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theatlantic.com)
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| Curious if corona quarantines have changed folks' perspectives on
| this. I consider myself pretty high on the "success addict
| spectrum", but after sitting at home in my sweatpants (or
| underwear) for the past 4 months, I just feel like some of those
| "success desires" have lost their luster.
|
| So much of desiring success is really about desiring recognition
| from others, and for some reason I just feel like I care less
| after being socially distant for this long.
| hinkley wrote:
| In so many aspects of life, I see people chasing after an analog
| for the thing that they actually want, either because they become
| confused along the way, or could never decide/admit/discover what
| it is they really wanted.
|
| If I'm famous people will love or accept me (if you're famous,
| you will never again know for sure who really loves or accepts
| you). If I have money I will finally feel safe. If I am the most
| intimidating person in the room, I'll never feel intimidated
| again, and nobody will ever know how helpless and small that
| makes me feel. If I have tons of kids, someone will still
| remember me fondly when I'm old.
|
| These all end up fixing the wrong problem.
| AndrewKemendo wrote:
| "banality of mere happiness"
|
| That is exactly it.
|
| Based on this article I would certainly be a member of the group
| called a success addict. I can only speak for myself here but in
| my opinion "happiness" is not only the wrong goal, it's an active
| distraction from determining and pursing the right goal. I have
| MY version of what the right goal is, but have no illusions on
| it's generality.
|
| Therein the conflict lies: The average person in my estimation
| defaults to "happiness" as the generalizable optimization vector.
|
| To wit - the article demonstrates this with the language of
| addiction and a reinforcement of the ONE TRUE GOAL:
| "relationships and love." Deviation from happiness (epicurean or
| hedonistic) as the ultimate goal is exactly that - deviant!
| ryanmarsh wrote:
| Everyone has personal problems. I promise you it's much better to
| deal with those problems while not having to worry about money or
| career.
| es7 wrote:
| Put another way: many people choose to pursue a meaningful life
| over a happy life.
|
| The English word "happy" covers a wide range of states and I'm
| not sure the original article has even settled on one definition.
| They reference terms like 'life satisfaction', 'orginary
| delights', 'relationships and love', 'hedonic treadmill', etc.
|
| The article seems to be coming from a good place, but I think the
| deeper message got lost in the noise: "Work for a sense of
| personal meaning, not outward achievement" (paraphrased).
|
| Happiness and success don't have to be mutually exclusive.
| centimeter wrote:
| The Variability Hypothesis means that the evolutionarily optimal
| strategy for males is to be very special (top few percent) within
| their competitor group. Since competitor groups have grown a lot
| since the evolutionary environment, it's not surprising to see
| this manifest in arguably pathological ways.
| Hokusai wrote:
| "This might be hard to believe, but I'm just a regular Joe. I
| just want to be happy. And happiness comes from the achievement
| of goals. It's just that when you've made your first billion by
| the age of 19, it's hard to keep coming up with new ones! But
| finally, I've got myself a new goal: WORLD DOMINATION!" Darwin
| Mayflower in "Hudson Hawk"
| FailMore wrote:
| I have done this for a long time and am just waking up out of it.
| It is sad to have spent so much time lost... (when I
| embarrassingly thought I was found). Trying to find the right
| pathway for myself now.
| silveroriole wrote:
| I think this is why lots of people are unhappy nowadays. Think
| about life in a small community. It's easy to be the guy who is
| special because he's the best at baking, or juggling, or playing
| an instrument, or telling stories. Whatever it is. Wanting to be
| especially good at something and recognised for it seems like a
| pretty basic human need to me. How is anyone going to feel
| special now when everyone's seen a hundred YouTube videos of
| people doing your special thing infinitely better than you ever
| will? No wonder people get addicted to 'fake specialness' at
| work. Relationships can also make people feel special. But the
| nagging feeling that you're not REALLY special may remain...
| realtalk_sp wrote:
| It's almost like the problem is wanting to be special? Stoicism
| and tangential philosophies are more critically important than
| ever, in my opinion. I've also found a great deal of benefit
| from not participating in social media.
|
| EDIT: There's a related and quite important concept in the
| contemporary well-being discourse often referred to as 'the
| dispassionate pursuit of passion [or success]'. I think many of
| the people who show up on HN would benefit from understanding
| it. Choosing to not desire being special _is not_ the same
| thing as being inert. There is a balancing point. Here 's a
| resource (albeit maybe a bit too self-helpy) that talks about
| this: https://www.happinessacademy.eu/blog-en/the-6th-
| happiness-si....
| silveroriole wrote:
| I don't really subscribe to stoicism (and a lot, but not all,
| of mindfulness and CBT) for precisely this reason: it seems
| to me to be telling people that it doesn't matter if their
| needs aren't being met, the real problem is that they have
| any needs. If it helps you personally, that's great! But to
| me stoicism texts often feel like they're written by some
| dismissive parent, the kind who would just tell you "only the
| boring get bored" instead of playing with you when you were a
| kid :)
| lxdesk wrote:
| To me stoicism is helpful in the sense of the advice one
| gets in jujitsu: If taking one grip on something isn't
| getting you the leverage you want, don't grip it harder,
| let go and take a different grip.
|
| Stoicism can't help if you're just getting traumatized, but
| a lot of "I feel awful about the world generally" sentiment
| boils down to having a tense grip on one's worldview, a
| rigid set of norms leading to the judgment that it is all
| wrong and terrible and thus to a kind of flagellatory self-
| harm. Nature as a whole, on the other hand, is indifferent
| - the "is" instead of the "ought". We learn many oughts
| when we're young, but they all deserve examination.
| TheNorthman wrote:
| You desire to LIVE 'according to Nature'? Oh, you noble
| Stoics, what fraud of words! Imagine to yourselves a being
| like Nature, boundlessly extravagant, boundlessly
| indifferent, without purpose or consideration, without pity
| or justice, at once fruitful and barren and uncertain:
| imagine to yourselves INDIFFERENCE as a power--how COULD you
| live in accordance with such indifference? To live--is not
| that just endeavouring to be otherwise than this Nature? Is
| not living valuing, preferring, being unjust, being limited,
| endeavouring to be different? And granted that your
| imperative, 'living according to Nature,' means actually the
| same as 'living according to life'--how could you do
| DIFFERENTLY? Why should you make a principle out of what you
| yourselves are, and must be? In reality, however, it is quite
| otherwise with you: while you pretend to read with rapture
| the canon of your law in Nature, you want something quite the
| contrary, you extraordinary stage-players and self-deluders!
| In your pride you wish to dictate your morals and ideals to
| Nature, to Nature herself, and to incorporate them therein;
| you insist that it shall be Nature 'according to the Stoa,'
| and would like everything to be made after your own image, as
| a vast, eternal glorification and generalism of Stoicism!
| With all your love for truth, you have forced yourselves so
| long, so persistently, and with such hypnotic rigidity to see
| Nature FALSELY, that is to say, Stoically, that you are no
| longer able to see it otherwise-- and to crown all, some
| unfathomable superciliousness gives you the Bedlamite hope
| that BECAUSE you are able to tyrannize over yourselves--
| Stoicism is selftyranny--Nature will also allow herself to be
| tyrannized over: is not the Stoic a PART of Nature? ... But
| this is an old and everlasting story: what happened in old
| times with the Stoics still happens today, as soon as ever a
| philosophy begins to believe in itself. It always creates the
| world in its own image; it cannot do otherwise; philosophy is
| this tyrannical impulse itself, the most spiritual Will to
| Power, the will to 'creation of the world,' the will to the
| causa prima.
| [deleted]
| zozbot234 wrote:
| My guess is that wider and more open communities only make it
| _easier_ for everyone to become "special" at their own little
| thing, with their own little (but still quite large given the
| scale we're looking at!) following of admirers. But most people
| are failing to recognize this, because they expect the kind of
| dynamic that would apply in a tiny community - where you _can_
| be "the best" at something as broadly defined as 'telling
| stories', and be respected for that.
| jameslk wrote:
| Not everyone lives to seek happiness. There's no reason to view
| seeking "success" or any other mode of living as illness just
| because it's not going to achieve happiness.
|
| I don't think most want to be simply happy anyway. A lot of
| people want to have kids. Is this because they want to be happy?
| Is buying a house about seeking happiness? Is the author writing
| this article to be happy? Is reading Hacker News going to make
| you happy?
|
| It's usually a mixture of motivations. There's far easier ways to
| be happy than most choose, but happiness is not the only reason
| to live.
| rewq4321 wrote:
| Agreed. Some people are motivated by wanting to have a
| significant positive impact on the world, and they're fine if
| that makes me a little less happy overall. I think that's great
| - especially when it's someone who has a lot of
| privilege/power. We should be encouraging that over pursuit of
| happiness/pleasure.
| KaoruAoiShiho wrote:
| Yeah back in the day the pursuit of happiness used to be a
| vice, hedonism almost. Now it's seen as the ultimate life
| purpose, wtf.
| data4lyfe wrote:
| "In the 1980s, the physician Robert Goldman famously found that
| more than half of aspiring athletes would be willing to take a
| drug that would kill them in five years in exchange for winning
| every competition they entered today"
|
| Seems very probable that when it comes down to it and they had
| the pill in their hand, a lot would not go through with it once
| the reflection hits.
| cbanek wrote:
| > even though a good relationship is more satisfying than any
| job.
|
| Um, citation needed. Also relevant, "Find a job you enjoy doing,
| and you will never have to work a day in your life."
|
| If you love your job, it can bring you happiness and success.
| Look at jobs like being a doctor where you get to help people.
| Even though many doctors have plenty of money to retire, they
| tend to keep working and helping people because many times they
| just really enjoy it!
|
| This also misses out on all the problems of a relationship, like
| stress, cheating, money, fighting, etc. If relationships are so
| great, why do so many marriages end in divorce? (isn't that like
| "quitting" your "job"?)
|
| Maybe I'm just a success addict, but if it's something I care
| about, then I'm going to go for it. And I try to keep what I
| measure to be how useful I am to others, what I can bring to the
| table, rather than dollars or title.
|
| Of course if you constantly strive for the things you don't
| really want, you can stress yourself out trying, then stress
| yourself out failing, or stress yourself out being there. But the
| same could be said of a relationship with the wrong person.
| Coming from a broken home, I wish I could explain how easy it is
| to see people in broken relationships that make them unhappy, but
| also unable to get off the "relationship treadmill". Pick the
| right people and the right things!
| zwkrt wrote:
| A few points:
|
| - rhetoric about loving your job tends to come from a very
| small minority of people who do not have an absolutely mind-,
| body-, and soul-crushing job. Rich people like to talk about
| working at Wendy's as some sort of "introductory" or
| "transitional" job, but this is not the case. And on top of the
| job itself being awful, then you get to go home and worry about
| the fact that you don't have any money. There is something to
| be said for having a sense of Zen at work, since that will make
| it less miserable, but the strange capitalist utopia where
| everyone is whistling at work is probably a long way off.
|
| - "relationships" are more than just with your spouse. What
| about your friends, roommates, relatives, children, neighbors,
| baristas, janitors, etc. I don't count coworkers because I
| believe that a work environment tends to inculcate a sense of
| competition and scarcity among people which is the opposite of
| what good relationships are made of. It is so important to have
| at least a few people in your life that would be there for you
| even if you didn't have a fancy job or nice things, because one
| day you might not have those things and then where will you be?
| TimTheTinker wrote:
| I'm not rich, but even I view a food service job at a fast
| food business (besides owning the business) as transitional.
| In other words, I would have _no_ intention to stay there
| longer than absolutely necessary. I would forego many
| comforts to save what I need to make my move and get out.
|
| There's a saying that if you took away all of a rich person's
| financial assets (anything owned) they would be rich again
| within a few years. That may be a bit of a stretch (it might
| take more like 10 or even 20 years), but the point is, there
| is a required mindset that it takes to get out of poverty,
| and that is a firm determination to not accept the status
| quo.
|
| Don't get me wrong: having that determination doesn't
| guarantee anything (plenty of people work hard and don't
| break out of it after 20 years because of hard luck or
| inescapable obligations), but those who do make it out always
| have that mindset. And those who don't have that mindset
| _never_ make it out, even if they win the lottery.
| cbanek wrote:
| Good points and fair enough!
|
| I guess my point was that it's kind of a false dichotomy, in
| that you can have happiness from work, and sadness from
| relationships as well. But I think also they are inter-
| related, in that good relationships can bring about more
| meaningful work (job opportunities, people you can learn
| from, etc.) and good work can lead to relationships (people
| you meet at work, through work, customers, etc.)
|
| While you say that coworkers are considered a bit
| differently, I think that also depends on the type of job. In
| high pressure jobs, I think you are absolutely correct, but
| in some of the more "soul-crushing" jobs that you mention,
| the coworkers are the best part. I think some of the best
| coworker relationships I had were when I was making pizzas.
|
| People / relationships can also move on themselves (moving,
| death, other changes), so those aren't permanent either.
| jimbokun wrote:
| It's fascinating to see so many commenters here automatically
| assuming "relationship" must mean "spouse".
|
| It's important to invest in _some_ kind of close relationships,
| but that doesn 't have to mean marriage.
| jasode wrote:
| The topic of spending "too much time at work" is something I
| think about a lot. (Wrote 2 previous comments about this.[0])
|
| In the 2nd thread, one reply ask, _" Have you tried finding
| fulfillment in having a family?"_ -- I didn't reply to that but I
| want to do so here.
|
| It depends on the personality as a parent but it can be very
| dangerous to rely on your family to be the _source_ of happiness
| and hoping that it overrides an unsatisfactory job. I 'm heavily
| influenced by growing up with my unhappy mother because she had
| artistic ambitions that were disrupted by having children (me).
| She had to work at a "boring" 9-to-5 job to put food on the table
| and a roof over our heads. Because of her awful (but good paying)
| job, all of our misbehavior and problems were magnified and she
| lost a lot of patience with us. For our specific circumstances,
| we might have been all better off if she (over)worked 60+ hours
| at something she liked (for possibly even less pay) so we as
| children weren't such a glaring irritation to her. Lots of
| frustrations with us with exasperations such as, _" Do you know
| how hard I have to work to put food on the table?!"_
|
| Based on that, I think one of the greatest gifts you can give to
| your future spouse, and future children ... is to find work
| that's palatable. Don't bring your misery home. Don't ask your
| family to be the _source_ of happiness. That's too much pressure
| on them. Instead, see them as _enhancing_ your existing
| happiness.
|
| I'm not giving universal advice here. I'm emphasizing that you
| really need to examine yourself and understand who you really are
| before thinking your family and relationships will be your
| salvation. It wasn't for my mother and it's not for me. Maybe
| we're psychologically defective. I don't know. For me, I already
| tried the author's advice with a 40-hour job and "work/life
| balance". That doesn't make me happy. What works _for me_ is to
| pursue an unbalanced life.
|
| Yes, there's _" all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy"_, and
| _" nobody lies on their deathbed wishing they spent more time at
| the office"_, and _" hustle porn"_, etc. I'm aware of all the
| derogatory memes that try to invalidate how I feel but I can't
| help it.
|
| [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9426760
|
| [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23924830
| icelancer wrote:
| I'm with you 100%. This "the 40 hour work week is too long"
| stuff doesn't resonate with me at all. For some people,
| hustling is what makes them happy.
| jimbokun wrote:
| "Don't ask your family to be the _source_ of happiness."
|
| I think investing in a family means seeing _their_ happiness
| and successes and flourishing as one of the sources of your
| happiness.
|
| And working a job to make money to give them an environment
| where they can grow and thrive and flourish can be part of that
| happiness, even if the job itself is kind of "meh".
|
| (And if that's not something that motivates you, then, yeah,
| probably best not to start a family.)
| Natfan wrote:
| Incredibly interesting article, I don't think it's just America
| that suffers from "success culture", from Europe to Asia to
| Africa you can find swathes of people who want to "be the best".
|
| And it's worrying, because at some point you will do the best
| work you can. You will hit that goal. If you don't have any other
| things you want to achieve out of doing a good job at work, I
| could see it easy to fall down the slippery slope of depression.
|
| Thought provoking stuff!
| adamhowell wrote:
| Reminds me of the Harvard Study of Adult Development, which I
| think about often:
|
| https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2017/04/over-nearly-8...
|
| "[F]ollowed 724 men since they were teenagers in 1938.
| (Approximately 60 men, now in their 90s, are still left.) The
| group consisted of men from various economic and social
| backgrounds, from Boston's poorest neighborhoods to Harvard
| undergrads. (President John F. Kennedy was even part of the
| original group.) Over the years, the researchers have collected
| all kinds of health information, and every two years they ask
| members questions about their lives and their mental and
| emotional wellness. They even interview family members."
|
| "Close relationships, more than money or fame, are what keep
| people happy throughout their lives, the study revealed. Those
| ties protect people from life's discontents, help to delay mental
| and physical decline, and are better predictors of long and happy
| lives than social class, IQ, or even genes. That finding proved
| true across the board among both the Harvard men and the inner-
| city participants."
|
| "When we gathered together everything we knew about them about at
| age 50, it wasn't their middle-age cholesterol levels that
| predicted how they were going to grow old," said Waldinger in a
| popular TED Talk. "It was how satisfied they were in their
| relationships. The people who were the most satisfied in their
| relationships at age 50 were the healthiest at age 80."
| throw48e7 wrote:
| > Close relationships, more than money or fame, are what keep
| people happy throughout their lives, the study revealed. Those
| ties protect people from life's discontents, help to delay
| mental and physical decline
|
| I call bs, selection bias. If something bad happens, the "close
| relationship" ends faster than you can say "divorce".
|
| If you manage to maintain close relationship way into
| retirement, yiu are very lucky. Of course you will be in great
| shape.
| lisper wrote:
| Maintaining relationships has nearly nothing to do with luck
| and everything to do with doing those things that are
| required to maintain relationships. Those come naturally to
| some people but for others they are learned skills that
| require some focus and effort. But if you fail it's almost
| certainly not because of bad luck, but rather because you
| decided that it was too much bother.
| throw48e7 wrote:
| "Luck" in the meaning of statistics. Chances are not
| favorable.
|
| And please stop victim blaming. Not everyone can manage two
| jobs, while doing third shift at home.
| Taylor_OD wrote:
| I'm pretty introverted and generally dislike (in a passive
| this person will probably not be a new close friend type of
| way) most people I meet. I've still managed to develop a
| handful of close relationships over the years. Even the ones
| I fucked up I can still reach out to and get a response if I
| need it.
|
| Will everyone of them always be able to be there for me? No.
| But I'm not always there for all of them. My brothers about
| the only one I assume I could talk to about anything anytime.
| But just because other are not available to me during tough
| times doesnt mean I don't have a close relationship with
| them.
| dlkf wrote:
| If you are going to downvote this comment, provide evidence.
| It's an empirical claim and the direction of causality OP is
| proposing is totally plausible. Did the authors of the
| original study control for this?
| marcinzm wrote:
| I mean the quote is literally "relationships at 50" and
| "outcome at 80." It's not "relationships at 80." Causality
| is inherent in the 30 year gap between factor and effect.
| savingsPossible wrote:
| Only a partial control. Some bad effect @50 can cause
| both the divorce and the problems at @80
| majormajor wrote:
| > If you manage to maintain close relationship way into
| retirement, yiu are very lucky. Of course you will be in
| great shape.
|
| If you think both relationships and physical health are
| factors of luck, there's no reason to believe that those who
| have good luck in relationships would also have good health.
|
| A link in this study does, in fact, suggest they _aren 't_
| independent variables.
| jasonv wrote:
| I'm not so sure.. I'm an introvert and a loner, so I often
| feel a bias against these kind of assertions. I want to be
| able to continue being a loner, feel good about it, exhibit
| resilience and self-reliance in a way that leaves me
| satisfied with my days, and invested in my intentions.
|
| I don't have a lot of friends, but I have a few. I'm
| divorced, but I have a great kid and am still actively
| intertwined, familial-y speaking, with my ex-.
|
| I wouldn't be able to say how all this affects my EOL quality
| and vitality, but I'm almost 50 and I don't feel diminished
| or negatively impacted by my life decisions or lifestyle yet.
|
| I'm not "lonely" but I work to make sure I'm "alone" a good
| amount. I feel the urge to get social about once every 3
| months and I can usually make it happen. I have a few places
| in the world where I travel, have friends, and can be super-
| social for a few weeks at a time.
|
| If not determined by a lower bound, I wonder if they meant it
| qualitatively as we all quantitatively.
| TimesOldRoman wrote:
| You sound like you have enough close relationships to
| sustain you.
| throw48e7 wrote:
| I dont want to speak for OP, but I am at similar
| situation. I maintain close relationship with family to
| help people, not to "recharge".
|
| Close relationship are energy suckers. For relaxation
| there are casual friends and flinks. But I would not call
| that close relationships.
| jimbokun wrote:
| > If something bad happens, the "close relationship" ends
| faster than you can say "divorce".
|
| I think it's important to note, close relationships can take
| forms other than marriage. I think even for those of us who
| are married, having your spouse being your only close
| relationship probably isn't the healthiest.
| adamhowell wrote:
| The book "Aging Well" goes into detail about the men
| themselves, the study perimeters, and the interviews they
| conducted:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Aging-Well-Surprising-Guideposts-
| Deve...
|
| None of these guys led perfect lives. Alcoholism, abuse,
| death, divorce. But as they grew older the things they most
| often cited in hours of interviews as objectively making them
| happier, were the relationships they forged and kept along
| the way.
| mrkn1 wrote:
| I agree that happiness on a diet of achievements sets you up for
| failure. I also think that a lot of people know this intuitively
| but don't acknowledge it consciously or to others.
|
| However, the author should have elaborated on "meaningful
| relationships". Dominant networking sites have imposed the
| unproved notion that "who you know" is more important than "who
| you are" and "what you know". Constant social comparisons
| encouraged by social media are also contributing to depression.
| As the author of a University of Houston 2015 study [0] stated:
| "This research and previous research indicates the act of
| socially comparing oneself to others is related to long-term
| destructive emotions".
|
| [0] - https://uh.edu/news-
| events/stories/2015/April/040415FaceookS...
| jimbokun wrote:
| I don't think any of the relationships you describe would
| qualify as "meaningful".
| mrkn1 wrote:
| That's my point.
| henning wrote:
| See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o7qjN3KF8U
| natchy wrote:
| _" the notion that one's goal in life is to be happy, that your
| own happiness is the goal. i just don't buy it._
|
| _... i mean, happiness is... (pause) ...I 've heard from several
| people an now I wonder... (pause) ...is that what postwar
| democracy has amounted to?"_
|
| -- Hayao Miyazaki (of Studio Ghibli) in "The Kingdom of Dreams
| and Madness"
| jackfrodo wrote:
| There's a great parable relating to this: The Other Side of the
| Hedge[0] by E. M. Forster. It's not too long, and I can
| confidently say it's worth your while if this article struck a
| chord with you.
|
| [0] http://www.101bananas.com/library2/otherside.html
| ericmcer wrote:
| It is always a bit paradoxical to discuss articles like this over
| a message board where we compete for votes and the top comment
| haha.
|
| I often think that happiness is a shallow goal, and you leave a
| lot on the table if you are unwilling to suffer. Success and
| achievements are answers to that old question 'why?', they
| justify our existence.
|
| Contrary to that, to paraphrase Gene Wolfe from Book of the Long
| Sun: " _When something is good it needs no justification._ "
|
| another relevant quote (just because!) from East of Eden:
|
| " _On one side you have warmth and companionship and sweet
| understanding, and on the other - cold, lonely greatness. There
| you make your choice. I 'm glad I chose mediocrity, but how am I
| to say what reward might have come with the other? None of my
| children will be great either, except perhaps Tom. He's suffering
| over the choosing right now. It's a painful thing to watch._"
| swsieber wrote:
| I think we use the happy in too broad of a manner. There's at
| least two dimensions to happiness that I regularly talk about
|
| 1) ephemeral pleasure (candy)
|
| 2) longer lasting joy / satisfaction
| (legacy/friendships/service)
| maCDzP wrote:
| I disagree, I don't see happiness as a shallow goal. But for me
| happiness does not mean that I won't suffer. Kids make me
| happy, but they also bring great suffering.
| gentleman11 wrote:
| This is portrayed as being about social recognition. Is it? The
| facts talk about deeply anti social behaviour. This is about
| chasing a flow state
| baxtr wrote:
| _"There are only three requirements for success. First, decide
| exactly what it is you want in life. Second, determine the price
| that you are going to have to pay to get the things you want. And
| third, and this is most important, resolve to pay that price. "_
|
| H.L. HUNT
| MaxBarraclough wrote:
| Eloquent, intuitive, and wrong. You may still fail despite your
| best efforts.
|
| Of course, 'success', however defined, is presumably different
| from happiness.
| playpause wrote:
| Why does "You may still fail despite your best efforts" mean
| the above quote about success is wrong?
| jimbokun wrote:
| You can pay the price you calculated, and still not get
| what you want.
| Kinrany wrote:
| It says there are only three requirements, but those three
| are not enough
| [deleted]
| opportune wrote:
| I think competitive personalities and globalization just don't
| mix. When humans lived in much smaller groups it was possible to
| carve out a niche if you wanted to. Aside from the monarch you
| probably didn't know of many other people outside your community
| who were really good at X/Y/Z. Now there are 8b of us and it's
| not hard to find out how many of those people are really good at
| something. Survival in wealthier countries is also so easy that
| all the competition is really for prestige/glory/status (having a
| moderately bigger house, nicer vacation, sending your kids to a
| better school) anyway.
|
| The other thing is that our financial system is so well-defined
| it can gamify "success" as just increasing a simple, well-
| understood metric: money
| supernova87a wrote:
| Isn't the rise of the US based on breaking out of past stagnant
| structures, and using creative destruction to change how the
| world works?
|
| I don't know if the creativity and opportunities to grow, try new
| things, be someone else would be the same if everyone were "just
| happy" ala Old Europe (in Rumsfeld's words). You might not be
| very happy, if the environment were everyone just being happy...
|
| But I guess the article is suggesting that people readjust their
| definition of what happy is.
| yelloweyes wrote:
| It's not a choice. It's a disease. No one chooses to be
| miserable.
| commandlinefan wrote:
| Well, the article makes it look like striving for
| accomplishment necessarily makes you miserable, and makes the
| comparison to alcoholism. If so, it's a very deeply buried,
| unconscious misery: alcoholics wake up and go to sleep feeling
| horrible and will tell you out loud that they're miserable
| whenever they're sober and wish that they could stop feeling so
| awful. Pursuing excellence doesn't (in and of itself) ravage
| your body or destroy your sleep.
|
| I'm fascinated by computers, and I like to spend time learning
| more about them. This doesn't make me miserable, it makes me
| happy (and, lucky for me, I can turn this into money too). It
| _does_ make the people around me uncomfortable: they figure
| that if they were reading a book about programming computers,
| _they_ would be miserable, so they try to talk me out of
| "punishing" myself.
| thisisbrians wrote:
| Corollary to this, though: you _can_ (with a lot of caveats)
| _choose_ to be happy. Or, at least, commit to finding and
| pursuing the path(s) that will get you closer.
|
| It can (and does) take a lot more work than sitting in the
| familiar rut of misery. Sometimes, this involves doctors and
| pharmaceuticals, but, either way, requires a lot of work on the
| part of the individual.
|
| The process of starting this work when you are already
| overwhelmed is a big problem. Try to rig the game in your favor
| and be realistic about whether you can benefit from outside
| help.
|
| Edit: formatting.
| frequentnapper wrote:
| "The pursuit of achievement distracts from the deeply ordinary
| activities and relationships that make life meaningful."
|
| Obviously if they value achievement more, then that's what's more
| meaningful to them. Not sure how anybody can define what's
| meaningful in general for everybody. And meaning changes with
| time - what's meaningful today, may not be tomorrow.
| [deleted]
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| Wallace Carothers, the DuPont chemist that created nylon and
| contributed to the creation of neoprene, felt that he did not
| achieve much and committed suicide.
|
| To most people, those are outstanding life achievements.
| kbouck wrote:
| _No matter how good you are at something, there 's always a
| million people better than you._ -- Homer Simpson
|
| _Gotcha: Can 't win. Don't try._ -- Bart Simpson
|
| https://youtu.be/1YgGnfBNAqg
| hinkley wrote:
| I recall once having a conversation with the gifted kids about
| how being in the "99.5th percentile" meant that there were 8
| million people in the world smarter than you. That number is
| just bigger now, and ignores fields of specialization entirely.
| Kinrany wrote:
| > Rather, it should be work that serves others and gives you a
| sense of personal meaning.
|
| Way to finish the article with a tautology. "To find meaning, do
| something meaningful." Sage advice.
|
| Looks like I'm very bitter that the author suggests happiness as
| the alternative. Brainwashing ourselves into permanent happiness
| is clearly not something we'd want.
|
| > As I once found myself confessing to a close friend, "I would
| prefer to be special than happy." He asked why. "Anyone can do
| the things it takes to be happy--going on vacation with family,
| relaxing with friends ... but not everyone can accomplish great
| things." My friend scoffed at this...
|
| I had a similar exchange with a friend. I wish the author said
| more.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2020-07-31 23:00 UTC)