[HN Gopher] The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design
___________________________________________________________________
The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design
Author : SirLJ
Score : 64 points
Date : 2020-08-28 11:27 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| trashcan wrote:
| I replaced an Aeron with a a gaming chair that was much more
| affordable (although it was back-ordered for a few months). What
| a huge improvement! It feels like I'm in a bucket seat in a car,
| which is basically what it is.
| rkagerer wrote:
| I hate how the first thing this site does is make me lie and say
| "I'm Happy" about their cookies.
| mattlondon wrote:
| Just out of curiosity, am I the only one that seems to be happy
| to just sit on a dining chair when at my desk?
|
| When the WFH wave hit, people seemed to be going mad buying
| webcams and office chairs. Loads of people I work with spent a
| _lot_ of energy researching and discussing chairs etc.
|
| I have a sit-stand desk and I stand for perhaps 2 to 3 hours any
| working day. But the rest of the time I just sit on a normal old
| wooden dining chair. No pain. No aches. No RSI. No CTS.
|
| I've been doing this for decades and nothing seems to have gone
| wrong yet. I do run 2 to 4 times a week so I do wonder if that
| helps avoid problems?
|
| Are all the uber-expensive office chairs just snake oil? Or have
| I just been lucky?
| kqr wrote:
| I haven't even turned 30 yet, so I imagine my body might well
| slowly be building up resentment towards me which will
| materialise in 20 years and I'll regret saying all of this,
| but...
|
| So far, my body has been happy spending extended amounts of
| time in any chair I set under it. Including the staple dining
| chair, or uncushioned outdoor wooden chair.
|
| However, I rarely sit _still_ for long periods of time. I 'm
| constantly shifting my position and doing all sorts of seated
| acrobatics to relieve tension and get variation. (I do this
| also in fancy ergonomic chairs.) Maybe this is what makes it
| work? I have no idea.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| >I do run 2 to 4 times a week so I do wonder if that helps
| avoid problems?
|
| I think there are a lot of stressed and unconditioned office
| workers who want some magical device to solve everything.
| Vertical mice, split vertical keyboards, expensive chairs. None
| of it replaces exercise.
|
| Might be a controversial opinion.
| nostromo wrote:
| This is my experience.
|
| I had lower back pain while sitting at a desk when I was
| younger.
|
| Once I started lifting weights, and specifically doing heavy
| deadlifts, I've never had back pain again.
|
| Interestingly, a lot of people are afraid deadlifts will
| _cause_ back pain, but in my case at least, it _cured_ back
| pain.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Not sure where that spine fragility myth came from.
|
| I used to have back and wrist pain. Now I do mild exercise
| like a brisk daily walk and 100 burpees. Basically the bare
| minimum to check off my exercise box. I read Sarnos book
| and took to heart the idea that a lot of aches and pains
| are not injuries but are in your head.
|
| Now I have no aches and pains ever.
| renewiltord wrote:
| This is literally the opposite of a controversial opinion.
| It's just the magic solution in a different shape.
|
| Most things in life aren't some sort of instant solution. If
| you run you won't live to be a hundred. If you smoke you
| won't get lung cancer. What these actions do is shift your
| probability distribution in certain ways. Running frequently
| improves your overall life-expectancy, smoking increases your
| risk of lung cancer1. You can do everything right and still
| have trouble. You can avoid every intervention and still have
| things work out.
|
| So, if you're outcomes-oriented you modify your environment
| and behaviour to match the outcomes you want based on what
| you know to be capable. Getting vertical mice, split
| keyboards, expensive chairs are all interventions that shift
| your distribution to better outcomes. Lifting well and
| frequently, having better posture, taking breaks to move are
| _also_ interventions that shift your distribution to better
| outcomes. Each intervention moves you to a better state of
| being.
|
| Some interventions require you to apply techniques of
| willpower and motivation. Others require you to place
| yourself in an environment where those things aren't tested.
| Yet others are just tools. I think I would go out on a limb
| to say that most people younger than their early 30s who aim
| to spend themselves into good health are making moves that
| are rational.
|
| Credentials here at bottom to prove I'm not some fat guy
| trying to justify not working out. My lift PRs indicate I'm
| not a novice (though not particularly exceptional). My weight
| at PRs (unless otherwise stated) was 165 lbs (75 kg). My
| height is 6' (184 cm).
|
| Deadlift: 375 lbs at 180 lbs body weight, 3x315 lbs at 165
| lbs
|
| Squat: 275 lbs
|
| Front Squat: 225 lbs
|
| Clean and Jerk: 135 lbs
|
| 5k time: 23:53 (within 3 mos of the PRs)
|
| 1 A quick test for your intuition for these events is to
| imagine in your head what you think the incidence of lung
| cancer in heavy lifetime smokers is and then look it up. 95%?
| 75%? 50%? 25%? 12%? 5%?
| yodsanklai wrote:
| I know lifting weight is a big thing in the US, but not so
| much in my part of the world. Sometimes my impression is
| that many guys primarily want big muscles and conveniently
| convince themselves it is the way to go to be in good
| health. Not saying it's not but because it looks unnatural
| and isn't functional (I mean, have homo sapiens ever needed
| that kind of muscles?), I'm just wondering if it's really
| that healthy.
|
| Are there any proven benefits to lifting heavy weight
| (compared to let say having a regular physical activity
| such as swimming, hiking, cycling, bodyweight exercises?)
| tonymet wrote:
| I prefer a bench. It helps you load weight on your pelvis and
| keeps your spine straight . All the soft stuff is protected
| agumonkey wrote:
| I have a really bad cheap ikea desk chair and even a stool is
| better than that .. thing. Sitting is killing me and this chair
| is a catalyst.
| [deleted]
| pbalau wrote:
| At the beginning of the lockdown, as I didn't have a dedicated
| computer desk and chair, I was working at my dinner table,
| sitting on a regular dinning chair. It lasted for about 1 month
| or so until I broke both the chair and my back (I could not
| move one morning and had to spend a few days in bed).
|
| It could be you have better sitting discipline (I tend to
| slouch when I sit), might be that you are more active (I didn't
| notice any issues last summer, when I was sailing every
| weekend, but then, I was not sitting at my dinner table for
| that long either), might be your regular chair is not that
| regular :)
| im3w1l wrote:
| I prefer a wooden chair to an office chair, because it's so
| rigid. I had a one of those fancy $2000 office chairs and I
| would always lock it so you couldn't lean back. But even locked
| it would have a little bit of give to it.
|
| Here's where it gets weirder though. I used to have padding on
| my chair. And it was the the kind of shitty strap on padding
| that would slide around, and after it did, my leg would
| reliably fall asleep. One day I got tired of it sliding around
| and just removed it. My leg never falls asleep anymore.
|
| Only complaint is that leg reinforcement has an II shape
| instead of H, so there is a little bit of sideways instability.
| krick wrote:
| Yeah, in fact I'm feeling that the simpler it is the better.
| All these expensive complex designs seem comfortable at first,
| but after a month it turns out that "ergonomic" features a
| chair has don't exactly fit your body anyway and it ends up
| with pain in the neck or something. With simple rigid chairs
| it's never really a problem, either you sit up straight or it
| just gets uncomfortable and you are forced to get up and
| stretch a little.
|
| I don't use a wooden chair, though, because I like the wheels
| and ability to rotate. But I much prefer very-very basic office
| chairs to all these gaming super-ergonomic overpriced whatever.
| I mean, they felt cool when I sat on them for the first time,
| but then it turns out to be fucked up in ways I admit I'll
| never be able to predict when buying one.
| rtkaratekid wrote:
| I used a fancy chair for a bit and got neck pain. Switched to a
| normal wooden chair, sometimes with a pillow to sit on, and I'm
| doing great now. Weird but works for me I guess. I do stand
| quite a bit too.
| ghaff wrote:
| The uber-expensive office chairs are really comfortable--if you
| pick one that works for you and properly adjust it. If you have
| an office and can afford it, it's IMO worth it to equip it with
| a good chair.
|
| That said, I probably only work in my office half the day and
| work in other spots around the house (including the dining room
| table) the rest of the time. (And get up and walk around quite
| frequently.)
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Do you have good posture?
| prox wrote:
| I'd like to chime in here. Posture is terribly important. No
| chair can help fully if there is dis or misalignment (maybe
| even from previous chairs that gave you bad posture)
|
| It is mentioned in the article briefly, and I feel it is a
| missed opportunity to discuss it.
|
| I currently use a series of exercises that I designed
| specifically for combatting the ails of sitting, and it has
| been a big improvement. The chair i use matters less now.
| elindbe2 wrote:
| I've been fine using a dining chair at home too. I don't feel
| much difference between my office chair at work and my wooden
| dining chair at home. I'm a runner too, for reference.
|
| Maybe sitting in less comfortable chair is better than a
| comfortable one over long periods because you adjust your
| posture more. I personally haven't noticed this but maybe I do
| it unconsciously.
| kleer001 wrote:
| You are very lucky. Ergonomics is complex, bodies are complex.
| You just happened upon a setup that works for you.
| Dumblydorr wrote:
| You're a bit lucky because the back is very likely to have pain
| in sedentary office workers. I think the standing and running
| are both key, yes, movement and change are key to keeping our
| fluidic bodies healthy.
|
| Then again, you are lucky because all manner of injuries,
| genetic weakness, and former life conditions have not all
| occurred, thus gotten you to this healthy spot. For instance,
| car or sporting accidents or falls, these could all lead to
| chronic weakness in the body, and luck determines their
| occurence.
| kshacker wrote:
| I used the dining chair for a couple of years when I was not
| working. But we changed the dining arrangement and it is not
| the same any more. I also use a sit-stand (stand mode) for 2-3
| hours, on a shop stool sitting mode ($60 odd from costco) for a
| bit, in my recliner for a bit, and recently tried sitting on
| the floor with a floor chair. It all works to varying degrees.
| My sit/stand is in my garage, so it does not work 3 months a
| year and then there is heavy reliance on inside, but for 9
| months a year, it is quite habitable.
|
| No RSI/other issues to me also (knock on wood) and I am over 50
| but I am starting to sense more and more that recliner (even if
| 4 hours) is not good and consciously try to reduce an hour or
| 2, but was quite hard to do that with the recent bay area heat
| and fires.
|
| Chairs? I am trying to move my office chair home, but that is
| so that I can cut down the recliner usage, but if I had a
| better dining arrangement (or my old dining arrangement) I
| probably would not bother.
| pottertheotter wrote:
| I used a dining chair for a while and it was ok. It got the job
| done. But then I got a "proper" office chair and I would never
| go back. My only regret is that I did not make the purchase
| earlier.
|
| Before purchasing a chair, I went to an office furniture and
| tested several chairs and had the employee point out why people
| preferred different chairs. In the end, I got an Aeron. Also,
| it comes in 3 sizes and I made sure to get the correct size for
| me.
| wozzeck wrote:
| I also use a wooden dining chair. I find the simplicity and
| hardness of the wood quite pleasant. I do use an adjustable
| height standing desk, so the main potential issue of a height
| mismatch between chair and table isn't a problem. One small
| issue with the chair is that the seat has a slight upward
| angle, as opposed to the downward angle recommended in the
| article. I add a buckwheat crescent pillow, which solves this
| and gives me the option of sitting in a wider variety of
| positions.
| sgt101 wrote:
| I got a gaming chair at the beginning of lockdown, and I propped
| up my desk to get everything to the right height. The things I
| looked for : adjustable arm rests, adjustable height, adjustable
| tilt and headrest & lumbar support.
|
| Also buy a 28" 4k monitor, proper keyboard and mouse device of
| choice (I got an apple magic pad).
|
| All for ~ PS500. It's worth the investment.
| _alex_ wrote:
| Do you like the gaming chair? I ordered an aeron and didn't
| like it, sent it back. Need a new chair. Decade old office
| chair is falling apart.
| sgt101 wrote:
| yes, it's good : https://secretlab.co.uk/collections/titan-
| xl-series
| user5994461 wrote:
| If you don't like the Aeron (I don't either), you can try the
| Sayl. It's still from Herman Miller but it's something else
| entirely.
|
| https://www.hermanmiller.com/en_gb/products/seating/office-c.
| ..
| polote wrote:
| I have been trying to find info on laying down desks and chairs
| in the past few weeks, but there is really not a lot of people
| who have experienced with it. If you had, please comment here
| megameter wrote:
| Here is my setup, which is a very inexpensive, low-footprint
| way of doing it:
|
| 1. A large lap desk. This is a powerful tool for adding
| flexibility as you'll see. It lets you keep all the peripherals
| near you. I currently use it with a USB hub, a 65% mechanical
| keyboard, a keypad with macro functions, and a trackball mouse.
|
| 2. A floor chair with reclining functions. The one I have is
| one of the cheapest on Amazon, basically a folding backrest
| with a bit of cushion.
|
| 3. A laptop/monitor arm and a shelf to hang it off of.
|
| With a laptop angled at 90 degrees so that the screen is
| overhead, I have a fully supinated setup on the floor, with the
| floor chair folded most of the way back for support.
|
| But it gets better. With a low folding table or breakfast tray
| I can switch the laptop and chair over to floor seating. Here
| the lap desk serves as a way to let me move around more. This
| is a great way to add variety of posture and stretch as I work,
| and I find that I use different positions for different levels
| of intensity during the day. Supination is better for passive
| viewing, while upright with no support is focused, intense.
| Seated with the chair reclined is the medium for "Tired but
| still want to work".
|
| And then I still have more traditional feet-dangling seats I
| can use too. Again, just haul over the lap desk and plug in.
|
| The best part is, none of these items need to cost more than
| $100. Most are closer to $50. So you can solve everything with
| an investment of perhaps $200-300.
| themodelplumber wrote:
| You mean laying down to operate a computer? I've been
| experimenting with that on and off for about 4-5 years now.
| Looking to deepen / accelerate this practice recently.
|
| It's pretty nice when it works well. I use one of those
| adjustable (3 joints per side) laptop desks and a mouse or
| trackball at my side. The laptop desk has a large lip on one
| end that prevents it from falling off when tilted.
|
| The great thing about this is that laying down seems to reduce
| strain on the nervous system so much that it's a more
| sustainable working position in a lot of ways. I find that my
| overall working mood is much more stable, especially compared
| to 1h+ sitting upright. I sometimes go back to a sitting
| position at work in the late afternoon (WFH) and my energy
| seems sapped by sitting within about 30-45 minutes (not
| completely sapped; just compared to the laying position).
| Laying down, on the other hand, is much more sustainable.
|
| I usually experiment with what I have on hand first (I used
| storage tubs and cardboard boxes to build my first standing
| desk), and I haven't yet tried any special chairs that allow
| laying down, except for a reclining couch.
|
| I think my next experiment in this area will be a lumbar pillow
| to be used when laying flat. I've been surprised at how much
| lumbar support can make a big difference in chairs, couches,
| etc. A friend told me he believes lack of lumbar support in his
| chairs at home caused his nerve damage, and I can see why he
| would say that.
|
| Some aspects that I don't like:
|
| - It has a social stigma. Either "hospital bed" (are you sick?)
| or "lazy" (you've been in bed for how long today?)
|
| - I can't (yet) put two 24+ inch monitors to use in this
| position :)
|
| - Same with my favorite keyboard...laptops are what allow this
| to work.
|
| - Some other minor things, but I believe paying attention to
| little adjustments can help here.
| armagon wrote:
| Gee, I was just thinking I needed to make some new chairs for the
| kitchen table (which seems to be a somewhat challenging
| woodworking project, as curves as usually called for and the way
| to craft them isn't obvious). I wish the article offered more
| advice about what makes a good chair, or chair alternative.
| cpwright wrote:
| If you are going to invest the effort in a set of dining
| chairs, I would recommend watching the Wood Whisperer guild
| dining chair videos. I have made a Hank chair and high chairs,
| but have never made a dining char. I did buy the class and
| found how Marc Spagnuolo broke it down interesting and
| informative.
| amanaplanacanal wrote:
| We would do better for ourselves to get rid of chairs entirely
| and sit on the floor. Getting down and up from the floor is a
| natural human movement that would keep us all fitter into old
| age.
| summitsummit wrote:
| source?
| greenmana wrote:
| I'd also recommend Turkish getups with a kettlebell.
| dwighttk wrote:
| Get rid of all furniture... just levels.
| smnplk wrote:
| Ok Cosmo Kramer..
| johnchristopher wrote:
| Have you tried sitting on the floor and work with a keyboard ?
| Do you have a setup you could share ?
|
| I suppose Japanese should have something fitting but that might
| be a stereotype.
| pfortuny wrote:
| The Japanese are the first to know that their posture is
| unnatural, uncomfortable and probably harmful.
| megameter wrote:
| See my other comment in this thread. I consider a lap desk
| _the_ essential tool for a floor sitting setup because it
| puts the peripherals exactly where they need to be, on a
| comfortable and portable surface. Everything else can be
| improvised to start.
| dmvinson wrote:
| https://www.nutritiousmovement.com/furniture-free-ahs13/ is
| an example of someone doing this in their home. Personally,
| my setup is a coffee table along with a zafu (buckwheat hull
| filled floor cushion) and sheepskins or a zabuton to cushion
| the floor a little. It's very comfortable, although I'd like
| to also have a standing desk to go with it. Coffee tables
| tend to be a pretty good height for this purpose if you want
| to avoid purchasing something custom. Besides that it's just
| a regular desk setup, albeit missing drawers or storage on
| the table.
| johnchristopher wrote:
| > https://www.nutritiousmovement.com/furniture-free-ahs13/
|
| Interesting reading, thanks.
|
| Would you be so kind as to share a picture of your setup ?
| To have a rough idea of heights, space arrangements, elbow
| positioning, etc. ?
| dmvinson wrote:
| Yeah, here is what I'm working with as of now. Moved
| recently (like everyone else) and still getting an office
| setup, but this is the basics. As far as height, I'd say
| it's a very ergonomically sound setup when in kneeling
| position with the cushion in between your feet. Laptop
| just below eye level, arms level, etc.
|
| I think the biggest benefits are it forces you to move
| and adjust a little bit more than in a chair, and forces
| you to use your muscles to sit properly much more. Would
| highly recommend to anyone. https://ibb.co/XYN3HFx
|
| The coffee table is https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/lisabo-
| coffee-table-ash-veneer-... The sheepskin is from
| sheepskin town, but any cushioning that softens the floor
| for your ankles/knees is good.
| johnchristopher wrote:
| Thanks a lot, much appreciated !
|
| I was browsing though the different pillow/cushion and
| was a bit worried at first by the $150 zafu/zabuton but
| it looks like there are ~$50 ones so I can give it a try.
| mspe wrote:
| You could also combine furniture instead of buying an expensive
| standing desk:
|
| https://imgbox.com/9tFW5Pvs
| jamespetercook wrote:
| I don't think I've ever found a chair that I felt completely
| comfortable in. I like to sit upright and feel alert and most
| chairs seem to be made for relaxing. I've always wondered if it's
| just me or not, and have often thought about designing a chair
| but realistically I don't have the skills :(
| TACIXAT wrote:
| I have this same issue. I've never seen a chair that supports
| shoulders back and down good posture. They all seem to hunch or
| arch forward. None offer the mid back support needed to put
| your chest forward.
|
| Same situation for sitting cross legged. My solution for
| posture has been a standing desk. I never really made any
| progress on my posture until I started standing.
| kjeetgill wrote:
| Same. For me it's old band habits. Used to sitting on front
| edge of the chair not using the back rest.
| aloer wrote:
| Check out the Haider Bioswing (https://bioswing.de/en/sitzsyste
| me/produkte/ergonomischer_ch...)
|
| No idea if they are available internationally.
|
| I got one last year and I'd say the architecture definitely
| forces you to sit straight and relax less than you do with most
| chairs.
|
| But not necessarily in an uncomfortable way. It's just not a
| chair for relaxed gaming or movie watching. That's what makes
| it so great when working
| jseliger wrote:
| For people working at computers in offices, get a motorized desk
| that can raised or lowered to a pre-determined height at the push
| of a button. https://jakeseliger.com/2015/01/24/geekdesk-max-sit-
| stand-de...
| Theodores wrote:
| Chairs need a failsafe mode. This is what I call better design.
|
| Recently my father sat on a chair that collapsed underneath him.
| It was a seemingly okay teak garden chair that had been recently
| in service and offered up to important guests. So in that way it
| was good that it was him rather than his brother in law or
| elderly neighbour that received a bruised elbow.
|
| This got me thinking about the safety of chairs. This chair - a
| folding chair - really should have included a wire around the
| seat so that it had a failsafe mode in order to prevent complete
| failure once the wood of the seat eventually gave up.
|
| There should be proper testing of seats to see if they are fit
| for purpose. Car seats for babies can't be passed on because
| there could be some crack in the polystyrene, yet regular chairs
| have no standards for safety. It is not a big deal until such
| time as you see a valued relative come a cropper.
|
| Design is how it works and chairs are not designed to have a
| failsafe aspect to the design.
| blueridge wrote:
| My sense is that we all just need to _move_ more: sit, stand,
| roll around on the rug, squat, go for a walk, you get the idea.
| Basically don 't spend the entire working day in a single
| position.
|
| I briefly went through a phase where I thought I'd enjoy the no-
| furniture lifestyle, but it wasn't for me. It also wasn't for my
| partner, nor my parents when they come to visit, nor anyone else
| whom I might want to invite into the home.
|
| I don't want to Marie Kondo the shit out of my space--I want to
| surround myself with beautiful, practical pieces of furniture
| that I enjoy using.
|
| I don't think most people go and try out furniture before they
| bring it home. I'm talking multiple trips to a furniture store,
| where you go and sit and explore the same few pieces over and
| over and until you're sure you've found something you love.
|
| You've got to stay seated for a bit to figure out where the
| pressure points are, whether or not the angle or depth of a seat
| makes your legs go numb, or hurts your back, etc. Do you like a
| firm seat? Do you like to sit "on" the cushions, or "down in to"
| the cushions? You want something with a high seat, or a low seat?
| There's a lot of furniture out there. It pays to take time to do
| the research, learn about how it's built, learn about different
| fabric types and how they affect the way a cushion holds it
| shape, then spend a good deal of money on a quality product.
|
| Furthermore, there's a huge difference in quality between buying
| a chair from West Elm and buying a chair from Knoll. For
| instance, I think this is one of the most comfortable and
| practical chairs on the planet:
| https://www.knoll.com/product/saarinen-executive-arm-chair
|
| We use it as a dining chair, and as a reading chair with an
| ottoman, and as a standard desk task chair. It's truly wonderful.
| Is it expensive? Yes it is. But it looks great, it's built well,
| it has a firm and comfortable seat, and it'll last a lifetime.
|
| But hey, comfort is subjective, you like what you like!
|
| Edit for those who are furniture shopping:
|
| - Saarinen chair linked above also comes with casters and
| hydraulic lift: https://www.knoll.com/product/saarinen-executive-
| arm-chair-s...
|
| - Don't knock it, it's surprisingly comfortable for long
| stretches: https://www.knoll.com/product/brno-chair-flat-bar
|
| - Great reading chair (with ottoman) if you have the space:
| https://www.knoll.com/product/womb-chair
|
| - Of course, the Eames lounge chair is a classic, though if
| you're taller than 5'8" go with the Tall version as you'll get a
| deeper seat and head support. For those with lumbar spine issues,
| probably not the most comfortable:
| https://www.hermanmiller.com/products/seating/lounge-seating...
|
| - Wonderfully firm sofa, great for long meetings, reading with
| attention. If you like to lounge, not great for movie nights.
| Durable fabric options, along with custom leather:
| https://www.roomandboard.com/catalog/living/sofas-and-lovese...
| scrooched_moose wrote:
| If anyone is looking for a better chair, we found this was a
| great time to pick up Herman Miller Aerons off of craigslist.
|
| There's a steady stream of small-to-medium offices in our area
| closing, and they're all liquidating office furniture. We picked
| up 2 for $500.
|
| They're a massive improvement over my $80 chair that was fine for
| a few hours a week pre-WFH, and my back is feeling much better.
| supernova87a wrote:
| This isn't exactly work related, but do people have opinions on
| the Herman Miller Eames chair? You know, this iconic look? [1]
|
| I ask because the lockdown has me fantasizing about distracting
| myself with replacement stuff for the home. But this chair is
| freakin $5000.
|
| Is it that good to be worth it? Or are any of those $1000
| knockoffs acceptable quality?
|
| [1] https://www.hermanmiller.com/products/seating/lounge-
| seating...
| scrooched_moose wrote:
| We have a 60s hand-me-down Eames.
|
| It is a very good chair. The build quality is fantastic and
| stylistically it still holds up.
|
| I find it much more enjoyable as a semi-recliner. I rarely
| use it if it's a social situation because it sits back so
| far. It's amazing for relaxing and watching TV or a movie
| though.
|
| I'm assuming the quality has held up. I've never tried a
| knock off.
| colmvp wrote:
| I found my Aeron chair triggered my lower back pain. Since then
| I've moved to mostly using a standing mat and standing up as
| well as strengthening my core. I might try sitting on my Aeron
| chair after a few months of core strengthening
| rtkaratekid wrote:
| I get some insane neck pain with these. Found I work better
| altering between standing and using a normal wooden chair.
| Not amazing sounding but it works for me.
| encom wrote:
| >lower back pain
|
| How low?
|
| I've had a terrible pain in my tailbone going on a few months
| now. I finally relented and got one of those donut shaped
| memory foam pillows. 40EUR for a block of foam with a hole in
| it is criminal, but after using it for a week now, I must
| admit it does help a lot.
| flanbiscuit wrote:
| > I've had a terrible pain in my tailbone
|
| This always happened to me on those Aeron chairs and pre-
| covid I was using those doughnut pillows for a few years,
| they worked great.
| powersnail wrote:
| Totally agree. Bought a second-handed Herman Miller (though
| from eBay) some time ago, and that's the best purchase of the
| past few years of my life.
| adamnemecek wrote:
| The worst chair in the world is the American high school/college
| desk+chair combo like this one
|
| https://www.schooloutlet.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/Screen...
|
| The people making and buying these place are committing crimes
| against humanity.
| II2II wrote:
| On the other hand, the people in those seats rarely do so for
| more than an hour. Other factors kick in because of that, such
| as cost and space utilization (which is effectively cost in a
| different form).
|
| Then again, I rarely had issues with sitting in them. Working
| space though, that was an issue. (Work on an in-class problem
| while referring to the text book? Ha!)
| EForEndeavour wrote:
| Mrs. Krabappel: Well, children, our new ultra-hard PostCherfect
| chairs have arrived. They've been designed by eminent
| posturologists to eliminate slouching by the year 3000.
|
| Martin: Mrs. Krabappel, I'm having back spasms!
|
| Mrs. Krabappel: I know they seem a little uncomfortable right
| now, but eventually your bones will change shape.
| Spartan-S63 wrote:
| They're find for like 15-20 minutes, but after that, they're
| unbearably uncomfortable. I remember starting to fidget quite a
| bit after about 20 minutes in those chairs/desks. It made
| sense, but it just wasn't ergonomic.
|
| Imagine sitting there for 50 minutes, having 10 minutes to get
| to the next lecture, and repeating that three times in a short
| span. It's awful.
| xwdv wrote:
| Fortunately being spry and youthful offsets those
| disadvantages.
|
| The only real crime of those chairs is enforcing right
| handedness on left handed students. This discomfort could be
| enough to create a slightly lower academic performance for
| left handed students on average compared to right handed.
| detaro wrote:
| My German high-school for some reason had one room with
| those chairs (which made them an interesting change once a
| week, not really annoying), but we had some lefty ones too.
| arnvald wrote:
| I've had to use these for some time, the worst part was that
| I'm left-handed and of course there was no chair with the
| armrest on the left side.
| axaxs wrote:
| Uncomfortable, but about perfect for popping your back. Though
| the back discomfort probably came from the horrid chairs in the
| first place, come to think of it.
| dwighttk wrote:
| Huh... had some of those in school and they were fine for me.
| There were left handed versions available.
| grugagag wrote:
| It's not comfortable but I don't think that's the worst chair
| especially if you pay attention how you sit in it. The worst
| chair is the cheap office chair that is often misaligned,
| wobbly and encouraging you to rest your back in a wrong way.
| And the free rotating swivel makes sure you are you really have
| a bad posture and not being able to sit properly. I relearned
| to sit down and now prefer a rigid surface and most often don't
| rest my back on anything. If your back is tired and you need to
| use the backrest it's time to get up and walk around a bit.
| Barrin92 wrote:
| I thought we had it bad with our school chairs in Germany but
| that picture makes me think Foucault was onto something when he
| compared the education system to the prison system.
| war1025 wrote:
| I read somewhere that if you want good posture, just sit on the
| edge of the seat. So that's what I do and it seems to work fine.
|
| Chairs with backs are nice, but it seems like they will always
| just lead to terrible posture.
| throwawaysea wrote:
| Perhaps we need to design for a furniture-less world, where we
| sit and stand as we did for most of our evolution.
| blunte wrote:
| At age 35, otherwise healthy and having spent 10 years in Herman
| Miller Aeron chairs, I had hip problems and a small but growing
| waistline.
|
| Then I transitioned to working from home and built my own
| standing desk (sadly before the very affordable mechanical Ikea
| standing desk was first released... But which I have now happily
| used for years).
|
| The first few weeks were challenging, but within three months I
| could stand for 12+ hours a day, and my hip problems went away.
| Also my overall energy seemed higher, and afternoon energy dips
| became less noticeable.
|
| For 13 years now I stand for virtually all of my day, and I have
| no back or hip problems. I do have slight spider veins on my
| ankles and knees, and that may be due in part to the standing.
| But it is cosmetic and barely visible, and totally worth the
| trade.
| grugagag wrote:
| How do you type standing for long periods of time? Do you rest
| your arms on the table?
| mattlondon wrote:
| I tend to rest my wrists/outer corner of hand on the desk,
| just like I do when sitting. Can't say I've ever noticed a
| difference between sitting and standing when it comes to
| typing
| grugagag wrote:
| The best position for me that I find for typing and this
| might be my own body and preferences, is to have elbows
| tucked close to the rib cage and keyboard on my lap or as
| close to the body as possible and relax arms, not rest on
| them at all but having them hang from the shoulders. Having
| a standing desk is very tempting, the only thing is that
| I'm not sure how I'd replicate the typing position I just
| mentioned. I'm now very curious and I think I'll run some
| experiments.
| svachalek wrote:
| I can't stand and type for long, as soon as I start to
| zone into it my legs want to go off and do their own
| thing and it totally messes me up. But, turns out most of
| my day is reading text, reading code, meeting, debugging,
| etc and not nearly as much typing as I would have guessed
| otherwise. It's easy to find a few hours that I really
| don't need to be sitting.
|
| With a sit/stand desk you can start by standing up for
| meetings, phone calls, etc, that don't really require
| typing at all and then see what else you can do standing.
| chiefalchemist wrote:
| If you're using a mouse my PT told me to "anchor" your elbow
| on the desk so you use your wrist to move the mouse, not your
| upper back. This is true whether standing or sitting.
|
| There was a good reason I was in PT and was told this ;)
| neilsense wrote:
| It's due to the standing - my mum spent most of her life
| standing at the counter in our shop and she has suffered from
| vein issues since she was about 50. Lots of swelling as well.
|
| Like anything, sitting, standing, jumping - it's worth doing
| everything within reason. Possibly just switching between
| positions throughout the day.
|
| Of course, these things can be gene dependant as well, but if
| you already have some spider veins showing, hopefully you can
| be a bit more aware of the problems that can come about later.
|
| She really suffers badly from all those years and it's not
| something that's easy to fix.
| akudha wrote:
| Could you please link to the standing desk you are using?
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