[HN Gopher] The social and economic costs borne by young people ...
___________________________________________________________________
The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices
Author : RickJWagner
Score : 75 points
Date : 2020-09-04 11:50 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theatlantic.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theatlantic.com)
| quxpar wrote:
| Currently subletting an apartment with an eat-in kitchen and two
| offices. Incredibly opulent by Brooklyn standards, but it's
| utterly essential for both me and my partner to have isolated
| space to work in. The kitchen is a nice bonus, because we can
| have coffee breaks together.
| barbecue_sauce wrote:
| No bedrooms?
| pelasaco wrote:
| I'm doing home-office since 2013 and I'm doing fine. Have my surf
| and social life in my routine. Work focused, produce more and
| spend less time trying to get stuff done. Cook daily is hard but
| sometimes a joy and a must if you want to leave healthy. I would
| never come back to a 5 days in the office routine. Never.
| bluntfang wrote:
| >Cook daily is hard but sometimes a joy and a must if you want
| to leave healthy.
|
| Hit this on the head. Since I've started working remotely, ~1
| year before the pandemic, I've really seen my diet improve. I
| eat clean. Fresh vegetables and grains are much cheaper than
| food truck/restaurants. I do put in hours though, but I haven't
| timed it. I usually can pull off cooking during my lunch break
| or during the 2-3 monthly all staff meetings I have where I
| don't do any talking.
|
| What really baffles me about all of this is how full the fast
| food drive thrus are when I go about on errands.
| pritovido wrote:
| As a long term worker from home I feel a sense of victimhood that
| floods all the article.
|
| I understand that most people are working for a company so others
| tell her what to do after school when they also train you what to
| do and you are micromanaged all the time.
|
| The article portrays that you need your boss to create your
| social circle for you.
|
| People do not see that as the enormous opportunity that it is.
|
| For example, before I worked remote I used to spend two hours
| every day commuting. I risked my life on the road with truck
| drivers and other carriers that were always late, stressed and
| dangerous. That also required my own money in gas and car
| repairs, expensive clothing...
|
| Most people at the office were not my friends, they were
| coworkers, and because I spent so much time there I had no time
| for seeing my real friends and family. I was also exhausted all
| the time, because I did not sleep enough.
|
| Working remote is amazing for me now(it was tough at first) and
| it could be for a lot of people is only they learn to grasp the
| opportunity.
|
| Take control of your own life, you will have to go against the
| training of the school days that is pervasive, school took years
| of your live. It will take you years to undo this training. Make
| your own group of friends, lovers. Sleep and eat well. Exercise.
| Invest on your skills.
|
| The article portrays young people as victims, and it is quite the
| opposite, they are the ones that can adapt and learn and grow.
|
| I went to Russia and most old people had a hard time working in a
| capitalist society because they grew up in a State that did
| everything for them, so as young people they did not developed
| the skills to make things on their own. If you actually tried ,
| you were strongly punished.
|
| But young people are adaptable. When I was young and started
| working remotely very few people did, so I had to learn on the
| go. Today it is much better and easier.
|
| Be proactive, refuse being a victim, if you have problems with
| working remote create a club, a mail list or whatever for other
| people in your same situation. Learn from people that have made
| it.
|
| But don't be a victim. We will be having covid for at least 5 to
| 6 months more in the north Hemisphere. You can spend that time
| doing something about it, learning and improving your skills or
| just complain all the time.
|
| After everything goes back to normal, most people will not do
| remote work 100%, but odds are they will do 30%, 40, or 50%, and
| their live will improve as a result if you have gotten the
| skills.
| benrbray wrote:
| As a recent graduate with an overseas job offer who has been left
| with no choice but to work remotely until Japan re-opens its
| borders to foreign workers, this really hits home.
|
| My student apartment is not equipped for this lifestyle. I do not
| have a home office in a sprawling estate in the suburbs on
| several acres of property where I can enjoy the sounds of nature.
| I live in a small apartment on a busy street surrounded by
| highways and golf courses who don't let plebs like me wander
| around inside.
|
| When I'm at home, I just feel this anxiety about working that
| just never subsides. I feel much more relaxed when I'm able to be
| outside, but the nearest public green space is campus, which I
| avoid as much as possible now that school is in session. The
| nearest park is a thirty minute drive, but I have to check the
| air traffic before leaving due to a nearby airport.
|
| At home, work seems to never end, especially with the 13-hour
| time difference that necessitates 10:30pm meetings twice a week.
| On one hand, I really enjoy this rare occasion to talk to my co-
| workers, but on the other hand, I can't shut off my work brain
| until after the meeting is over. On these days I end up going to
| sleep at 3 or 4am, adding to the cycle of stress and sleep
| deprivation.
|
| I figured this would last one, maybe two months at the most. But
| now it's been four months since I started remote work and six
| months since I accepted the initial offer. There's no word about
| Japan issuing new work visas any time soon.
|
| I want my life to begin.
| VLM wrote:
| If you're a 30 minute drive away from a park it must be
| extremely urban and therefore expensive. It might be cheaper to
| move somewhere suburban or go completely nomadic. You may not
| get a chance to see the Grand Canyon or other national parks
| anytime soon if you're moving to Japan, so now might be a very
| good time.
|
| Google searches for mountain view CA apartment rents as an
| example of hyper dense urban life far from green areas seem to
| indicate $2K to $6K/month is quite reasonable. Similar google
| searches for rural Wisconsin cabins indicate a thousand bucks
| per week will get a cabin on a lake in the woods with a pontoon
| boat, wet bar, and hot tub. You don't have to worry about your
| schedule if your closest neighbor is a quarter mile away.
| Internet might or might not be a problem.
|
| The problem with spending a couple months at some New Orleans
| bed and breakfasts is you'd be close enough to be reminded
| everything is shut down, and noise level. Might be easier to
| stick with rural retreats and adventures.
|
| The united states lighthouse association website lists rentable
| lighthouses if you really want to get away from it all. Again,
| internet via satellite may or may not be a problem. The entire
| lighthouse on Charity Island in Michigan can be rented for not
| too much more than a Mountain View apartment.
|
| You could do a very small house boat on a lake for $4K to $6K
| per month off season. There is no shortage of houseboat rentals
| and lakes and parks to visit. Could try the mississippi
| river...
|
| In all fairness I did spend yesterday in a park shelter at a
| county park with excellent wireless working away in 70 degree
| breezes, but there are many days when it rains or its 100 or 0.
| ci5er wrote:
| You are very (very!) generous with this. Tokyo ain't CA (for
| example, I can't imagine he would want to drive anywhere for
| a good while). There are more forgiving environments (and
| processes!), but it sounds as if he's going to have to spend
| some time on the ground to figure that out. It can be a weird
| place for six-or-so months.
| downrightmike wrote:
| You need to track your time and limit all that you put in. I
| use a spreadsheet that I put the times I start, take lunch, and
| then it calculates when I need to stop. So if I take a 37
| minute lunch, I can set a timer on my phone to go off and
| remind me. I've also setup a automatic timer to switch on a
| lamp that starts at roughly an hour before I need to log on and
| cuts out at lunch. After lunch I turn it back on util I'm off.
| I only go into work mode with that light on. Simple but
| effective. Then you have to make other things worth doing, like
| I'd rather throw a ball for my dog than keep working. Or a
| hobby that gets you away from the PC, knitting would work and
| easy to get started.
| mox001 wrote:
| "The stubborn human desire to stare at one's own face" (on Zoom)
|
| So others do that too?
| frompdx wrote:
| _This article appears in the October 2020 print edition with the
| headline "A Cubicle Never Looked So Good."_
|
| To be honest, I've never really had a cubicle. Usually just a
| desk in a bullpin type arrangement. No privacy. Distractions
| galore. The sound of co-workers flushing the toilets in the
| restrooms nearby. Nothing to reflect fondly upon in my opinion.
|
| _If I had wanted or needed a new job, completely changing
| careers would probably have been easier than getting another gig
| in my field with the experience I'd accrued at home._
|
| No doubt my experience is different doing technical work, but I
| have never relied on my co-workers to line up my next position. I
| flip the switch on linkedin to let recruiters know I'm looking
| and call or email the recruiters I have worked with in the past.
| Sometimes an employer might ask for a reference. I suppose I do
| have a short list of those.
|
| _"Outside of immediate family, people's co-workers become their
| most consistent opportunity for social interaction," Peditto told
| me. "What happens when you lose that is one of my greater
| concerns."_
|
| My social interactions really do revolve around my family and
| long time friends. It's not a large group, but I'm not a social
| butterfly either. I have a hard enough time keeping up with those
| social interactions. Who knows, maybe I was born for remote work.
|
| Overall this feels like yet another hit piece against remote work
| with a lot of anecdotes and not much else. Here I am arguing
| against it with my own anecdotes. I really don't understand why
| these keep cropping up. Are commercial real-estate conglomerates
| paying for these?
|
| Personally, I am happier than I have ever been working remotely.
| I don't struggle to keep a routine or maintain separation between
| my work life and my home life. I don't feel starved for social
| interaction either. I would hate to see the sentiments these
| articles convey ruin something that has been very positive for
| myself and my partner (and my dog).
| benrbray wrote:
| > Overall this feels like yet another hit piece against remote
| work...I really don't understand why these keep cropping up.
| Are commercial real-estate conglomerates paying for these?
|
| I appreciate the perspective you shared in the rest of your
| comment, but was this bit really necessary? Just because
| someone has had a different experience than you doesn't mean
| that they're a corporate shill paid to manufacture dissent.
| frompdx wrote:
| I do think it is necessary. It's one thing to share your
| experience about remote work as the author does. It's
| something entirely different to interleave it with with vague
| concerns of economic hardship for younger people or stunted
| career growth for women. What is the purpose of this?
|
| In my mind I imagine a boardroom full of Don Draper types
| sipping scotch and smoking cigarettes fretting over the
| decline in office leasing revenue while Draper spins a
| brilliant web of fiction. "We'll tell them that it is bad for
| the careers of women and we'll make them miss the smell of
| their co-worker's day old spaghetti as it spins on the
| microwave turntable. We'll even make them long for the
| awkward interactions in the hallway while they go down a
| level to the inconveniently placed restroom on the floor
| below. They'll eat it up."
|
| The anti-remote work hit-piece aspect is really my point. To
| me these articles feel like some kind of thinly veiled
| attempt to make people believe they missed working in the
| office. Maybe even make people fear for their futures if they
| don't work in an office. Maybe this isn't the case and isn't
| what the author intended, but that is how it reads to me.
| benrbray wrote:
| Sure, if there's evidence that the author is not really who
| they say they are, by all means go ahead and point it out.
| However, you just seem to be making vague accusations about
| some grand conspiracy by corporate real estate developers,
| rather than addressing the article's very legitimate
| points.
|
| As a young person working remotely, everything the author
| says reflects my own experience. It is very much a fact
| that remote work removes a lot of the unscheduled office
| interactions that younger / newer employees use to learn
| and advance their careers. I don't know about women
| specifically, but it is very plausible that remote work
| hurts social and economic mobility for young people, and
| for people without a stable home life.
|
| Yes, we should certainly collect data to measure the real
| impact of remote work, good and bad. But now that remote
| work is a part of everyone's lives, whether we like it or
| not, it's also valuable to listen to these individual
| stories, to get an idea of the breadth of possible outcomes
| when we get rid of the office.
| frompdx wrote:
| _Sure, if there 's evidence that the author is not really
| who they say they are, by all means go ahead and point it
| out. However, you just seem to be making vague
| accusations about some grand conspiracy by corporate real
| estate developers, rather than addressing the article's
| very legitimate points._
|
| I think all of your points are completely fair so I don't
| want you to feel that I am being obtuse or overly
| pedantic. You're correct that I have not provided any
| evidence to indicate the author is not authentic.
| However, you made me curious so I decided to open the
| article in a private browsing session with no ad blocker
| enabled.
|
| Maybe everyone sees a different advertisement, but what I
| saw struck me. The article is peppered by advertisements
| from facebook.
|
| "Support Small Business Together." Is the tag line of the
| facebook advertisement.
|
| What I say next is facetious of course. This article
| isn't part of a grand conspiracy by corporate real estate
| developers, it is a grand conspiracy by one of the
| largest advertising platforms in the world, facebook.
| Remote work is hurting facebook's advertising revenue
| because small business are dying off.
|
| Again, entirely facetious. Still, The Atlantic is
| partially supported by advertising and I found this
| particular advertisement to be interesting given the
| content of the article and the discussion on HN.
|
| Draper's eyes gleamed as he delivered the line that would
| seal the deal. "We'll make them nostalgic for their
| offices and that is how you will sell more advertisements
| to small businesses mister Zuckerberg."
| VLM wrote:
| This is not quite the "world wide web" we signed up for,
| but its definitely the one we got, LOL.
| benmller313 wrote:
| Perhaps its not a web of lies and this situation really is
| hurting this persons career? I think it's usually a good
| idea to assume that there isn't a large misinformation
| campaign going on.
| luckylion wrote:
| There has been a lot of selection going on until an
| article makes it into a newspaper though. The individual
| writer needs to want to write it, their editor needs to
| think it's a good idea, and there are plenty of chances
| for it to get pulled or rewritten in a major way. "It's
| just this person's opinion and by chance it landed in The
| Atlantic" does rarely happen.
|
| It doesn't require a conspiracy, of course. I find it
| much easier to believe that it's essentially pre-chewed
| stuff a large audience can nod along to. No need for any
| agenda other than "I want eye balls on my article, and I
| want lots of them and I want the brains that are attached
| to share the article because that will get me more eye
| balls".
| fxtentacle wrote:
| For what it's worth, I also wondered if this was a reaction
| to tech companies going fully remote and canceling their
| office lease. Especially because we just had another
| article about how remote work is hurting small businesses 2
| days ago, which started with the incredibly flawed
| assumption that people would stop going to local
| restaurants if they didn't accidentally walk past them on
| the way home from the office.
|
| And yes, offices are big business. And yes, they'll surely
| try lobbying and PR.
|
| Plus, the Atlantic has a history of "native advertising"
| https://www.adweek.com/digital/after-scientology-debacle-
| atl...
|
| I'd give it a 50% chance that this das paid for by real
| estate and a 50% chance that the author just wants to
| virtue signal by mixing in these seemingly less related
| topics.
| bobthepanda wrote:
| I mean, small businesses will be getting tanked, but
| mostly in office districts with very high lunch foot
| traffic; the assumption of the increased lunch custom is
| kind of baked into rents and the business model, and
| commercial leases are measured in years.
| fxtentacle wrote:
| The way you said it, it seems like small businesses are
| being screwed over by real estate companies. That's a
| different cause than people not going to the office.
| bobthepanda wrote:
| Really any restaurant model based on high, peaky lunch
| traffic is just going to get hosed.
|
| So I would imagine that in the worst case scenario, some
| food models, like the lunch truck, the NYC hot dog cart
| or the NYC deli, are going to have some severe issues
| generating enough cash even just to play their employees,
| since they are low-margin, high-volume businesses. At
| current volumes they will never make enough money to
| cover even non-rent costs at <$5 a sandwich.
| frompdx wrote:
| In this case I suppose I'll give The Atlantic the benefit
| of the doubt because they do clearly spell out their
| advertising and paid content guidelines in this document
| (pdf warning). http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/front/do
| cs/ads/TheAtlantic...
|
| They also make an effort to distinguish paid content from
| their editorial content like this article from College
| Board. https://www.theatlantic.com/sponsored/the-college-
| board-2017....
|
| Nonetheless, I'm skeptical of the proliferation of these
| articles in general. On the one hand, it's the talk of
| the whole world. On the other, what are the motives of
| the individuals and publications producing this content?
| Are they perhaps victims themselves of a subtle PR
| campaign? Others have said I am being too skeptical and
| making assumptions. I don't disagree, yet I remain
| skeptical.
| necubi wrote:
| Clearly you are someone who strongly believes in the
| superiority of remote work, but is it really that hard to
| believe that there are people who disagree?
|
| I'm a software engineer with no connection to the
| commercial real-estate industry, and I'm pretty sure I
| haven't been a "victim of a subtle PR campaign." And yet
| I find remote work alienating and psychologically
| difficult, and I'm eager for a return to the office.
|
| In addition to just...not enjoying remote work, I agree
| with the author that it would have been especially hard
| to be remote when I was younger. I would have missed out
| on a number of opportunities and connections that have
| been very helpful to my career.
| frompdx wrote:
| _Clearly you are someone who strongly believes in the
| superiority of remote work_
|
| For myself. I strongly believe remote work is a net gain
| for me and others like me. I appreciate that others do
| not feel the same way, but when the dust settles I stand
| to lose if I am the odd man out, no? I strongly believe
| that the sentiment conveyed in this article will be used
| as ammunition to drag those of us that prefer remote work
| back to the office. I'd prefer articles like this to find
| a balance that allows everyone to have their preference,
| but they seem to grapple for downsides that don't apply
| to everyone.
| slavapestov wrote:
| > My social interactions really do revolve around my family and
| long time friends. It's not a large group, but I'm not a social
| butterfly either. I have a hard enough time keeping up with
| those social interactions. Who knows, maybe I was born for
| remote work.
|
| > Overall this feels like yet another hit piece against remote
| work with a lot of anecdotes and not much else.
|
| I think you've answered your question there. It is an
| unfortunate aspect of modern society that for many people, work
| is their only opportunity to socialize with other humans (other
| than trivial interactions with the cashier at the grocery
| store, and so on).
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| The social aspect is interesting because the pandemic induced
| remote work has happened at the same time as many people's non-
| work socialization has also been taken away. Whenever people
| start going back to the office, they may try to use
| socialization there to make up for the socialization that has
| been taken away from them due to restrictions on public
| gatherings. I've been doing remote work for three years, so I'm
| used to not socializing with coworkers in an office context,
| but the general restrictions on the public as a whole has been
| a bit rough. I have no desire to go back to working onsite in
| an office but could be tempted back in if it were the only way
| to have some level of socialization again. My guess is that
| offices probably won't become the primary white collar work
| location again until well after the restrictions on public
| gatherings have been relaxed so maybe going to the office to
| regain socialization won't be necessary (knock on wood).
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| Best advice I can give is to have a dedicated space from which to
| work. This will probably mean you need more space in your home
| than you did when you went to an office each day. This might also
| mean that certain real estate situations are no longer viable or
| are at least less desirable than they used to be. Having roommate
| or living in a small crowded space can be detrimental to remote
| work. Leaving a city center with high cost per sq ft for a less
| dense residential area might be the trade off you have to make in
| order for remote work to work for you and your employer long
| term.
|
| For me it meant getting a house and setting aside a specific
| bedroom to be an office. I do use it for hobby activities but
| those uses are easily put away at the start of the work day. It's
| not used as a spare bedroom for visitors.
|
| There are also certain security issues that employees and
| employers are going to need to come to an understanding on now
| that remote work is getting more common. Some discussions should
| not be able to be overheard by spouses, roommates, friends, or if
| your walls are thin enough, neighbors. So far there seems to be
| very little discussion around the security side of things, likely
| because everyone knows for most of those suddenly thrust into
| remote work, there's only a limited amount they can do about it
| right now.
| GoodJokes wrote:
| My advice is to have money and buy your way out of it. Cool
| Cool.
| hevelvarik wrote:
| I love everything about WFH save for that I get far less exercise
| not making my daily MTA
| slavapestov wrote:
| I think people who are opposed to remote work should be honest
| about what they really want. They're advocating for all tech jobs
| to be concentrated in a handful of cities (SF, NYC, Seattle), all
| of which suffer from a housing shortage.
| snazz wrote:
| You can dislike WFH while also disliking centralization in a
| few cities with housing shortages. They're not mutually
| exclusive.
| throwaway021331 wrote:
| Being born in SF or in some african village is the biggest
| predictor of wealth.
|
| This makes borders the most impactful form of discrimination.
|
| Of course a lot of people in wealthy countries are not so happy
| with remote work (but offshoring cobalt mining is ok)
| supernova87a wrote:
| WFH has a huge difference in result depending on who you are,
| when you are (in your career), and where you are in a company (of
| organization).
|
| -- For the budding young developer who can't wait to show ideas
| to teammates and demonstrate being a go-getter by asking random
| questions and finding unaddressed issues to innovate on, WFH
| might be terrible. You're going to schedule time to fortuitously
| run into the senior person who takes an interest in your idea?
|
| -- For the working parent whose productivity has been slashed by
| 50% and stress has gone up by 50% due to parenting obligations,
| WFH might be terrible.
|
| -- For the middle manager who can coast along and not need to
| move greatly in his/her career, WFH might be great.
|
| -- For the developer who works by tickets on very concrete things
| and this is nothing new, WFH might be great.
|
| -- For the small company CEO who relies on force of personality
| and everyone in the same room urgently working to get something
| done, WFH might be terrible.
|
| There's a huge variability in what WFH means, depending on what
| you want from the situation.
|
| For some people, remote working is really not good.
|
| And that's aside from the point that, when everyone is remote,
| you're also competing with the world who is also remote. Jobs and
| job qualifications (and competition) may change...
| mumblemumble wrote:
| > -- For the working parent whose productivity has been slashed
| by 50% and stress has gone up by 50%
|
| Only up by 50%? That's impressive.
| slavapestov wrote:
| > -- For the developer who works by tickets on very concrete
| things and this is nothing new, WFH might be great.
|
| You're right, everyone who doesn't live in San Francisco is
| just mindlessly churning through tickets all day.
| wutbrodo wrote:
| I can't even imagine how huge a chip on your shoulder you
| must need to interpret the parent comment so ludicrously.
| chadash wrote:
| > And that's aside from the point that, when everyone is
| remote, you're also competing with the world who is also
| remote.
|
| Yup... once everyone is remote anyway, won't take too long for
| some manager to decide to offshore work to cheaper countries.
| Even if that doesn't happen to you, if it happens to enough
| people elsewhere it'll bring salaries down for everyone.
| WalterBright wrote:
| The D community is all over the world. We're used to that!
| thesizeofa wrote:
| Just how incompetent are you if you can easily be replaced by
| a cheap inexperienced worker in india?
| sJ646U9k6c6gME9 wrote:
| Offshoring is not a new concept, and everyone knows it
| doesn't work. How come offshoring hasn't eaten my lunch yet?
| thesizeofa wrote:
| Because you got skill and s/he doesnt. Hence it launches
| attacks on foreigners.
| ericmcer wrote:
| I try to fight my primal instincts of jealousy, etc. but it
| really feels like a lot of the 'butts in chairs' type people
| like human resources, various managers, etc. have slowly cut
| back to basically responding to emails/messages and maybe
| working a few hours a week. If that is your definition of WFH
| being great than it is definitely going great for them.
|
| As a dev it has kinda shredded my desire to do large scale
| unpredictable projects and made me pick up predictable
| boilerplate type work. One is easy to demonstrate progress on,
| the other is more abstract. This is also slowly eroding my
| passion for engineering so I may need a rebalancing.
| ci5er wrote:
| If so: Get promoted.
|
| I love it, because it has cut my commute down 10 hours/week
| and my dedicated meeting time 10 hours/week. That's 20 hours.
| Now I can dedicate 5 hours of that to taking walks or naps or
| cooking healthy food. 5~10 hours of that for more work. And 5
| hours for the company. Generally a win for everyone, I think.
| slykar wrote:
| > For the small company CEO who relies on force of personality
| and everyone in the same room urgently working to get something
| done, WFH might be terrible.
|
| Working remotely for a small company with a few people from
| around the world and it's going fine. We are in contact when we
| have to be. I can cut distractions when I need to. No open
| space office bulshit.
|
| I was raised on IM. I'm fine communicating like this. If I need
| to talk I can always call someone.
|
| In any case, you need a space to work. If you WFH you should
| have a space for work. I strongly believe that employers should
| pay you more so that you can afford an additional room. This
| should not be a cost cut for the employers. They should just
| pay you instead of paying the insane office rent.
|
| WFH is simply different from working at an office. It will be
| hard for some people to learn a new way, but this major change
| could even redesign our cities.
| konjin wrote:
| >They should just pay you instead of paying the insane office
| rent.
|
| Or pay the shareholders instead. Or the CEO. Or ... you are a
| cost center for your company. Why would they pay you more
| than the minimum anyone than they would for any other cost
| center? That said you should negotiate for an extra room as a
| part of doing business.
|
| >I was raised on IM. I'm fine communicating like this. If I
| need to talk I can always call someone.
|
| I finally got emacs connected to the corporate email server.
| My productivity went up 100% overnight. I'm debating setting
| it up for slack.
| jankotek wrote:
| >> For the working parent whose productivity has been slashed
| by 50% and stress has gone up by 50% due to parenting
| obligations, WFH might be terrible.
|
| And working at office with 1 hour drive home, makes those
| parenting obligations somehow easier?
| aspaceman wrote:
| Parenting is weird. Haven't you ever seen the parent whose
| kid goes quiet, and then they jump up in a panic? They know
| their kid is up to something horrible if they're quiet
| now....
|
| There's lots of thoughts like that and plenty to worry about
| as a parent. It's more than just "Shut up Johnny!"
| ianhowson wrote:
| Yes.
|
| - Small children don't really understand "mummy's working,
| talk to me instead." Interruptions are death to productivity.
| Children can't interrupt you if you're not present.
|
| - Most daycares are closed or at reduced capacity.
|
| - Nanny services are harder to find and come with risks.
|
| - Time at the office is time resting from the kids, and time
| at home is resting from the office. If it's all one place,
| __there is no rest __.
|
| My wife and I are finding it easier to alternate childcare
| instead of try to do everything at once, and being out of the
| home during the work time gives rest and focus.
| chadash wrote:
| As a parent, yes. I prefer an office because there are fewer
| distractions. If you hear your kid laughing outside your
| office, it's hard not to want to take a look. Plus, my
| commute is _me_ time, where i get to listen to podcasts
| /audiobooks and relax.
|
| Sure, if my commute were especially long, I might say
| otherwise, but that's a different discussion.
| jxramos wrote:
| Commute can also be exercise/activity time.
| srtjstjsj wrote:
| That's less good than not-commuting and choosing when to
| have exercise time, unless you have low willpower
| sokoloff wrote:
| WFH parenting is made much harder with daycare workers and
| school teachers now WFH.
| tayo42 wrote:
| This is a covid problem though, not a work from home
| problem. In a normal world, possibly even next year, this
| will go away
| Shivetya wrote:
| and here I find the fact I no longer have the stress of traffic
| to offset most of my concerns plus it really is beneficial to
| my wallet.
|
| So yeah, there are pros and cons but the parenting one is not
| truly fair in that the arbitrary handling of schools across
| this country is maddening in its own right. people who tend to
| be good at managing their own time are usually good at dealing
| with the children being around.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2020-09-04 23:00 UTC)