[HN Gopher] Attention is your scarcest resource
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Attention is your scarcest resource
        
       Author : adambyrtek
       Score  : 358 points
       Date   : 2020-09-06 14:46 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.benkuhn.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.benkuhn.net)
        
       | elxavit0 wrote:
       | a key insight for me in this article is this one: "In order for
       | bullshit not to distract me for the rest of the week, I try to
       | minimize my number of "open loops"--projects or processes that
       | I've started but not completed."
       | 
       | I hadn't realized that I probably keep way too many "open-loops"
       | in my life. And they are draining away my attention-currency.
        
       | sova wrote:
       | "everything is downstream from controlling attention" - Joscha
       | Bach on the Lex AI podcast
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-2P3MSZrBM&t=3s
        
         | biddit wrote:
         | That's an amazing observation. Can you point to roughly where
         | in the video he says this? Thanks!
        
           | heed wrote:
           | It's about here (2:03:40):
           | https://youtu.be/P-2P3MSZrBM?t=7420
        
           | sova wrote:
           | 2:03:00 begins a discussion on meditation and at 2:03:45 he
           | says "everything is downstream from controlling attention" --
           | toward the end of the segment labeled "AI simulating humans
           | to understand its own nature"
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | einpoklum wrote:
       | Ah, the irony of saying this to people like us, wasting our
       | attention like there's no tomorrow on the odd news story on HN
       | :-)
        
         | crehn wrote:
         | What is it about HN that makes it feel much more productive
         | than other similar sites?
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | Lower troll ratio perhaps?
        
             | einpoklum wrote:
             | Perhaps: More intelligent and engaging trolls? :-)
        
           | inetsee wrote:
           | The promise of "The Silver Bullet". You'll find an article
           | that will tell you how to be more creative, more productive,
           | happier. You'll create the next unicorn business, get filthy,
           | stinking rich, and have everyone wanting to be your friend.
           | 
           | Of course, your best bet for achieving these goals would be
           | to spend less time reading HN and more time actually "Doing
           | the Work".
        
             | nullsense wrote:
             | I found a silver bullet here once. Read an article about
             | The DAO and smart contracts. Led to making 100k.
             | 
             | You're so right though. It is the allure of potentially
             | finding a silver bullet. Combined with the great community
             | and thoughtful discussions.
        
         | kempbellt wrote:
         | An ironic post indeed. There's a valuable message here: Give me
         | your attention for a moment so I can teach you to protect your
         | attention.
         | 
         | Like a move baddie saying, "Trust me when I tell you: Don't
         | trust anyone" <- this the bad guy right here. You don't need to
         | watch the rest of the movie.
         | 
         | TLDR: If you value your attention and want to respect the
         | intention of the article, don't read it ;)
        
       | asimovfan wrote:
       | What is mindfulness (smrti)? It is non-forgetting by the mind
       | (cetas) with regard to the object experienced. Its function is
       | non-distraction.
       | 
       | - Asanga, from Abhidharmasamuccaya
        
       | taway738039 wrote:
       | the article does mention "TIMEBOX BULLSHIT"; anyone has had
       | success with that, or has tips for the same? the reason I'm
       | asking is, I've tried in the past at the cost of not looking at
       | "bullshit", but it just keeps getting piled up to a point where
       | people start making mountains out of molehills.
        
         | vinceguidry wrote:
         | Time boxing is when you spend X amount of time to either get it
         | done or get it off your plate. If it's piling up, then you're
         | not really time boxing. Push back on whoever wants you to do it
         | if it's really bullshit or hand it to a report or coworker if
         | you still have to do it.
         | 
         | If you can't do either then you have to treat it like a
         | priority and not something that can be time boxed.
        
       | kirillzubovsky wrote:
       | Opened this in my 64th browser tab.
        
         | kilroy123 wrote:
         | I have ~150 open.
        
           | awinter-py wrote:
           | switch to chromium in ubuntu snap -- crashes at ~ 30
        
           | nullsense wrote:
           | My brain has too many tabs open.
        
           | maitredusoi wrote:
           | I have 500 opened(and some never closed since 2 years ...)
        
       | ineedasername wrote:
       | I'd say it's time, not attention that is most scarce, but they
       | are highly correlated so I suppose attention is a reasonable
       | proxy for time.
        
         | hooch wrote:
         | Time cannot be controlled. Attention, however?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | chrisweekly wrote:
       | cool blog; author Ben Kuhn founded the Harvard Effective Altruism
       | group, and wrote an amusing bit about "giving games"... etc
        
       | hh3k0 wrote:
       | > It took a while for me to train my friends not to instant
       | message me [...]
       | 
       | Ha. I hope said friends are not reading his blog.
        
         | ehnto wrote:
         | I feel like it's the wrong approach anyway. Just keep the
         | instant messages on silent, and check them when you have some
         | personal time. Training people to never message you is a good
         | way to lose some of the spontaneity of friendship.
         | 
         | I say that as a massive luddite in this regard, I hate always-
         | on culture. But I learned you have to make some concessions,
         | because your friends will use what's convenient to them and the
         | harder you make it the easier you disconnect them from you.
         | Real friendships aren't built in a day, and you'll be stifling
         | every relationship you try to build if you don't meet them
         | half-way.
        
       | aquajet wrote:
       | Attention is all you need
        
       | JimboOmega wrote:
       | (*: For clarity - EM = Engineering Manager, IC = Individual
       | Contributor)
       | 
       | I recently transferred to a team with an explicit intent for me
       | to be an EM on that team. A few months down the road they said I
       | wasn't meeting expectations because of my "time management" which
       | had too many meetings and lacked focus time for IC work - which
       | definitely was not my 50%+ focus. I'm "winning" the resulting
       | political war (my last 1:1 left my lead in tears), but only in
       | the limited sense that I'm not getting fired; it's been a bit of
       | a disaster for everyone.
       | 
       | The unclear expectations of what gets someone an EM role and what
       | is expected of that role is the root of my problem, some of the
       | author's, and a lot of the industry's as a whole.
       | 
       | Leaders are picked from those that are truly focused on tech and
       | truly excel at it... and then told not to do that. How can
       | somebody be "intuitively, emotionally invested in the outcome" of
       | tech work and then suddenly be expected to stop doing it?
       | 
       | I should have been that rare counter-example in that I got picked
       | for this role because of my very visible leadership in other
       | areas. However, when it came time to give me the position
       | formally they fell back on code output and found it somewhat
       | lacking (specifically, the number of commits I made while
       | onboarding was less than those of my established teammates).
       | 
       | There's a school of thought that switching back and forth between
       | IC and EM tracks lets you build a lot of knowledge and be both
       | better manager and IC (the author evidently did). While I do
       | think experience with each helps you do the other, there is a
       | cost to that focus shifting. This isn't like the cost of only
       | being able to code in 45 minute blocks. It's the cost of shifting
       | the things you care most about entirely.
       | 
       | Most managers fail to ever make that shift. Even if they manage
       | to hold themselves back from coding (not all do), their heads
       | remain in the code. One sign is when, in response to impossible
       | expectations from above, they try to come up with technical
       | solutions (e.g., if only we redesigned this module we could meet
       | these impossible deadlines). If your mind is focused on tech,
       | it's the tool you use to solve every problem. Another example is
       | when team members have no idea how to move their careers forward
       | and don't know expectations. A tech focused lead won't be
       | thinking about how a new project is actually the perfect
       | challenge for a more junior employee; their head will be figuring
       | out the best way to solve the task technically.
       | 
       | An EM is not a tech lead. It's not just a different skillset, but
       | a mindset change.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | I'm going to see how far I can get never trying to get promoted
         | above lead developer. Or more to the point, trying not to get
         | promoted above lead developer.
         | 
         | Sounds like some of your coworkers thought an EM role was [a
         | lead developer], which it is not. As a manager, being an IC
         | leads to a bunch of structural problems with the code and
         | therefore the team.
        
           | JimboOmega wrote:
           | This is another big part of the problem. While at my current
           | company management is a separate track on paper, many still
           | view it as a promotion (including my lead). But if that's not
           | the "promotion" you give them, what is it?
           | 
           | Even if you make it a separate track, it's hard to define
           | what the promotion looks like for more senior engineers,
           | especially at successful companies. When you have $2M of cash
           | in the bank thanks to stock, does a 10% pay bump from senior
           | to staff matter? Does the title bump matter? How can you
           | reward a long-standing successful senior engineer in a way
           | that seems meaningful?
           | 
           | This isn't a question I have an answer to, but "make them a
           | manager" is definitely the wrong one. The majority of my
           | managers have told me how jealous they are that I get to code
           | all day. More than one has told me straight up they do not
           | want to manage. I've watched several teams implode under
           | managers like that.
           | 
           | I think it's completely valid to not want to manage.
           | Hopefully your lead doesn't pressure you to take such a role
           | in the future. But have you thought about what success would
           | look like in your career otherwise?
           | 
           | It is also valid to not be particularly ambitious, to enjoy
           | the craft of software engineering until you retire, and spend
           | the mental energy you would spend on getting promoted on
           | hobbies, family, advocacy, or whatever else brings value to
           | your life... though it can be hard for those of us who are
           | more ambitious to realize that.
        
             | hinkley wrote:
             | I didn't figure out the public school system until the
             | middle of third grade. By then the era of gold stars had
             | passed me by, so any motivation I found was going to have
             | to be intrinsic, not public accolades.
             | 
             | I had a boss who was being weird about making me a lead for
             | the first time. I needed him to make it official, not fret
             | the title. I told him I didn't care what he called me as
             | long as people did what I asked them to do.
             | 
             | If you want to stay an IC, I can not recommend loudly
             | enough that you learn to manage your finances and your
             | consumption. Managing your "needs" makes your savings last
             | longer. Getting a raise just lets you build your savings
             | faster, which might not be the same (especially since your
             | needs will be inflation adjusted but your savings will
             | not).
             | 
             | It's harder to maintain the courage of your convictions
             | when you are in debt than when you are doing okay.
             | 
             | If someone makes you work for a promotion, they are
             | manipulating you. That could be good (in a mentor) or bad
             | (in a labor exploiter). But you are being manipulated, and
             | it's better if it's really your choice, not your mortgage
             | or your kids' braces.
        
               | JimboOmega wrote:
               | I am financially comfortable (though not at 'fuck you
               | money'), but also, personally, really want to be an EM.
               | My passion has been people, process, and management for a
               | decade or more at this point (I had my first tech
               | internship 20 years ago, and have been full time in the
               | industry for 15).
               | 
               | I initially didn't care about titles, but they do
               | constrain what work you can do. The reality is that if
               | your title is one of an individual contributor, even if
               | you lead culture change at the company level, they will
               | always look for the code. If they don't find it, you will
               | be in trouble.
               | 
               | One thing I have learned over the last year of my life is
               | that being "Shadow lead" - the one actually pulling the
               | strings and making things happen, with no formal
               | title/recognition - is the worst spot to be in. The work
               | you are doing doesn't match what you should be doing on
               | paper, so you are very vulnerable if somebody decides to
               | take a closer look.
               | 
               | It's "glue work" but on a larger scale. It's important,
               | but will go unrecognized. It's emotionally exhausting to
               | build a team and get a head pat and told someone else
               | will lead that now, thanks, and by the way how much code
               | did you write recently?
               | 
               | Though I do wonder what you mean by "official" but
               | without the title. It might be the case that "everybody
               | knows" what you do, but if your lead is replaced or just
               | changes their attitude, suddenly your IC work is under
               | the microscope, and could be found lacking.
        
         | hu3 wrote:
         | What's EM and IC?
        
           | JimboOmega wrote:
           | Engineering Manager / Individual Contributor.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | binbag wrote:
       | Quick, someone post this article to LinkedIn.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | 50 wrote:
       | From Rebecca Rozelle-Stone's _Simone Weil and Theology_ : "For
       | Weil, attention is the decreative release of self to receive the
       | world in all its reality. Paradoxically, this (passive) letting
       | go of self and accompanying control is simultaneously a
       | "creative" action: attention sees what is invisible (as the good
       | samaritan saw the bleeding, anonymous, dirty man in the ditch)
       | and hears what has been deprived of a voice because the din and
       | smog generated from our maintenance of control has finally
       | cleared."
        
       | unsatchmo wrote:
       | 50% of your time and energy seems like an impossible bar. At 16
       | waking hours, we are talking about 8 hours spent entirely on
       | focusing on some task. That's like the hyper optimistic
       | assumptions of time spent that lead to bad estimates in software.
       | I would say even the 10x engineers I met only focused for 5-6
       | hours a day max, so 30% focus.
        
       | burlesona wrote:
       | I think the most salient point of this blog is pretty much buried
       | as the closing thought. It's pretty hard to be a good engineering
       | manager when you also have programming responsibilities (IC
       | work). Sure, you can debate about what the different hacks are to
       | try and work around this and do a good job in spite of the
       | difficulty, but it's a lot easier to just go full-time managing.
       | 
       | In my experience it takes six or more people to fully occupy a
       | manager. Ten seems to be about perfect. You can go higher than
       | that (and many do) but at a certain point you're not evenly
       | investing in all your people anymore, you're mostly focusing on a
       | few at a time.
       | 
       | Obviously the hardest part of this is if you don't have 6+ people
       | to manage. My answer to very small teams is not to have a manager
       | at all, just have a technical lead and trust that a group of 1-5
       | people can work out their own crap.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | > In my experience it takes six or more people to fully occupy
         | a manager. Ten seems to be about perfect.
         | 
         | Aha, so it takes one full-time manager to manage one 10x
         | programmer ...
        
           | alexchamberlain wrote:
           | Is that a team of 10 without the communication overhead?
           | 
           | In all seriousness, is it time to get rid of the 10x meme?
           | People have strengths and weaknesses; people have areas
           | they've experienced before and things they've never done.
           | Some people are going to work faster than other people on
           | certain tasks - that's life.
        
             | harryf wrote:
             | 10 is already too many. 8 is the limit before you get
             | diseconomies of scale. This was already well described over
             | 40 years ago in the mythical man month
             | https://torchbox.com/blog/40-year-old-lessons-and-
             | mythical-m... ... there's also a ton of writing on ideal
             | Marine squad size that tells the same story
        
             | cschep wrote:
             | Is it time? Absolutely, yes. Will it die? Unfortunately,
             | never.
        
               | techbio wrote:
               | There are still plenty of places with 1/10X programmers.
        
               | aynsof wrote:
               | I've worked with at least three people who were -x
               | programmers. That is, they produced negative value to the
               | organisation.
               | 
               | They did this by breaking systems (DNS, build pipelines,
               | etc), producing code so bad that it had to be rewritten
               | from scratch, and distracting everyone on the team
               | through drama.
               | 
               | They also did it through endless requests for help - not
               | the kind where they learn from it, though. The kind where
               | they ask the exact same question next week of someone
               | else. They would cycle through asking everyone on the
               | team about the minutiae of their job, because they had no
               | idea how to do it themselves.
               | 
               | I realise that the idea of the '10x rockstar' is an
               | unpleasant one. But I also know that the best people I've
               | worked with over the years were at least ten times better
               | than the worst.
        
               | jrvarela56 wrote:
               | Why is this 'myth' talked about here in negative terms?
               | 
               | From my professional experience, it's obvious that there
               | are coworkers that can output even 100x impact qhen
               | compared to peers. When judging entrepreneurs it's
               | visible some people's multiplier/productivity is in the
               | million-times compared to others.
               | 
               | Given automation is at the core of our work as devs, why
               | do some people think 10x isn't credible?
        
               | fxtentacle wrote:
               | As long as some companies can get away with replacing an
               | entire team (including managers) with 1-4 highly skilled
               | developers, the myth will remain.
               | 
               | As a practical example, consider 4 people beating Windows
               | Mobile with what later became Android.
        
           | HenryBemis wrote:
           | This is for programming (only). In other areas (GRC/security)
           | the 10x is cumbersome/impossible.
           | 
           | Especially in many mega-big organizations, in non-dev depts,
           | the "Manager" is also tasked to: build and perform analytics,
           | do VERY HEAVY ad-hoc reporting (aka Directors bombarding you
           | with 10 different mini-projects weekly) and at the same time
           | you have to run the projects with 5-10 people, meaning
           | driving the ship, having huddles, handholding, coaching,
           | mentoring, reviewing, be present in 40% of the meetings, etc.
           | 
           | I don't know how much hands-on is a programming 'boss' of 10
           | people. But if it's no coding at all, I am happy for you and
           | I wish the same for me.
        
         | qznc wrote:
         | > It's not uncommon to find engineering managers with 30 direct
         | reports. Flatt says that's by design, to prevent micromanaging.
         | "There is only so much you can meddle when you have 30 people
         | on your team, so you have to focus on creating the best
         | environment for engineers to make things happen," he notes.
         | 
         | Source: How Google Sold Its Engineers on Management
         | https://hbr.org/2013/12/how-google-sold-its-engineers-on-man...
        
         | justicezyx wrote:
         | Agree
         | 
         | The more I move away engineering, the more I feel the
         | unreliability of human beings, and its stark contraction to
         | machines.
         | 
         | Of cuz, machines, when sufficiently complex, becomes unreliable
         | as well. But by operating still within that boundary, one can
         | already do exceptionally things.
         | 
         | People managers essentially are dealing with a completely
         | different entities than machines. Rarely one can operate on 2
         | different entities and still perform exceptionally.
        
           | an_opabinia wrote:
           | Y'all might not be machines but you're definitely cogs.
        
             | justicezyx wrote:
             | I dont think human are cogs, at least not swes, they are
             | more like little electronic controller...
        
               | cheschire wrote:
               | And a sigmoid function isn't a boolean switch but you
               | still get more or less the same result regardless of how
               | complex the definition is.
               | 
               | Ultimately employees move the company machine, whether
               | their job is to code, sell, manage, or clean toilets.
        
         | sandermvanvliet wrote:
         | From experience I'd say it's near impossible to combine the two
         | roles. Especially if the company is small there is just too
         | much: "we just need to get this done yesterday", but at this
         | point I guess that's startup life. Yes you could argue that
         | it's about priorities and that's true. However I do find that
         | this only works when you don't have people sick, on holiday or
         | whatever. The ideal situation just breaks down way too quickly
        
         | lumost wrote:
         | no manager management works ok at a small company without
         | career progression options. But in any shop where there is a
         | standardized performance review you'll need a manager who can
         | represent the team and individuals.
        
       | andrejserafim wrote:
       | I also find that 100 things to do as a manager is a
       | misconception. Doing 100 things well in a day is impossible.
       | Picking the 3 to do super-well and doing those. Yields the best
       | results.
       | 
       | Especially because those 3 are unlikely to come back.
        
         | roughly wrote:
         | I found being really clear with myself about the things I was
         | _Not_ going to take care today was really valuable - it made it
         | much easier to pull my focus back to what I was working on if I
         | knew the other stuff was "scheduled" for another day.
        
           | ehnto wrote:
           | Likewise, it's very freeing to completely rid yourself of a
           | task mentally so that you can focus on the tasks at hand.
           | 
           | Part of it is trusting that future me can get it done
           | properly. A trusting partner with which to delegate the task
           | to.
        
       | aliceryhl wrote:
       | I'm really curious about the tungsten cube it mentions. Anyone
       | who tried one got some experiences to share?
        
         | robocat wrote:
         | I noticed there is a heavy 4 inch version for $2500:
         | 
         | https://www.amazon.com/Tungsten-Cube-Biggest-Size/dp/B07WK9W...
        
         | komali2 wrote:
         | https://thume.ca/2019/03/03/my-tungsten-cube/
         | 
         | Looks like it's just a heavy cube to use as a fidgit toy? I
         | wanna play with it now too lol.
         | 
         | Edit: I don't know how to link directly to a single amazon
         | review but holy shit read the one from Richard , it should be
         | the first https://www.amazon.com/Tungsten-Cube-1-5-One-
         | Kilo/dp/B00XZBI...
        
           | OakNinja wrote:
           | It's the best Amazon review I've ever read.
           | 
           | "... I have carried the tungsten with me, have grown attached
           | to the downward pull of its small form, its desire to be one
           | with the floor. This force has become so normal to me that
           | lifting any other object now feels like lifting cotton candy,
           | or a fluffy pillow. ..."
        
           | kilroy123 wrote:
           | Link to the review:
           | 
           | https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/review/B00XZBIJLS/RZKKKAM6FE5AI
        
       | bilater wrote:
       | 'Attention is your scarcest resource'
       | 
       |  _Clicks on link_
        
         | realYitzi wrote:
         | underrated comment
        
       | hinkley wrote:
       | My most plausible scenario for the Singularity now is someone
       | figuring out how to augment short term memory with implants.
       | 
       | I think we are going to find that attention is dominated by
       | working set memory, and people who can juggle even twice as much
       | stuff are going to operate fundamentally differently than those
       | who can't afford or won't have the surgery. And past 5x it may
       | become difficult to even communicate, much less compete.
        
         | ncmncm wrote:
         | I can't say whether more short-term memory would make us
         | smarter, but I can say that when I had a short-term memory
         | problem, I could do everything except program.
         | 
         | This dependence on short-term memory is why I find Rust's
         | borrow checker intolerable during exploratory programming.
         | Whatever coding bugs it prevents have to be strongly
         | outnumbered by design errors it causes by stealing attention
         | from the most critical activity at that time.
         | 
         | The borrow checker would deliver 100% of its value if it
         | limited its enforcement to release builds, and just reported
         | numbers otherwise.
        
         | notemaker wrote:
         | This is touched upon in [1]. Great book.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Vernon%20Vinge+A%20Deepness%20in%2...
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | Those people were scary. I had blotted them out.
        
         | ehnto wrote:
         | I think you are right for deep work, but in my opinion it's
         | getting to deep work that is the problem most people face.
         | Having a deep work switch would be life changing.
         | 
         | Once I get into a deep work state, the ability to hold and
         | reason about more of the problem would definitely be helpful.
        
           | minitoar wrote:
           | Imo one of the biggest issues with "deep work" (aside from
           | motivation) is loading everything into short term memory.
           | Maybe if my short term memory was enhanced to be reloadable,
           | or maybe if I had enough short term capacity that I could
           | retain the working set needed for deepness and be interrupted
           | by a coworker for something unrelated.
        
             | hinkley wrote:
             | And not letting someone who wants to know if you are going
             | to the meeting later upset the entire house of cards.
        
         | acituan wrote:
         | > I think we are going to find that attention is dominated by
         | working set memory, and people who can juggle even twice as
         | much stuff are going to operate fundamentally differently
         | 
         | I would be careful equivocating working memory, attention and
         | processing power. Attention is much more complicated than what
         | one can juggle in mind actively, what is chosen to enter and
         | leave it also matters, just as the shape and form of the task
         | it conforms to. There is no singular unit in brain that
         | "creates" attention, it is best thought as an emergent property
         | of several, if not all, parts working together.
         | 
         | Besides that, even if we assumed a von Neumann architecture for
         | human cognition, an increase in memory wouldn't have expanded
         | total processing capacity unless it was starved of it. I don't
         | think that is the case for humans, if there was a selective
         | advantage to having more working memory as general problem
         | solvers, we would have had it already. Granted, the types of
         | tasks we undertake today can be different in shape, but not
         | completely; still need to survive a physical world, still need
         | to have successful relationships, still have to manage
         | emotions, still have to do all of these while doing our
         | specialized abstract cognitive tasks.
        
           | MauranKilom wrote:
           | Working memory is probably closer to cache than main memory,
           | and it's imo extremely limited and slow to warm up. Imagine a
           | CPU with just 6 cache lines for non-OS code...
           | 
           | Although your argument of "if it brought such an advantage,
           | we should have evolved into it by now" does hold water too. I
           | suppose it hinges on how much of an evolutionary advantage we
           | actually have from excelling in the kind of deep abstract
           | thinking that some jobs require nowadays, vs. how much this
           | improvement would've been worth in past centuries.
        
         | kanzure wrote:
         | Interesting concept. One of my favorite mutations in humans is
         | a single nucleotide flip that confers 19% improvement in
         | working memory capacity. Substantially underrated. Would only
         | work on embryos, of course.
        
           | AlexCoventry wrote:
           | Which nucleotide site is that?
        
       | graeme wrote:
       | He mentions timeboxing. Does anyone know of a good way to do this
       | on ios with certain sites?
       | 
       | The built in blocking with downtime is nowhere near granular
       | enough, and it is rather easy to turn off. Do any third party
       | browsers or apps have schedules for viewing certain sites?
       | 
       | Eg on mac I have an app, coldturkey, which blocks certain urls
       | during the workday.
        
         | chrisco255 wrote:
         | I recommend the Forest app. It works on both desktop and mobile
         | and allows you to block sites as well as apps and sync your
         | preferences between accounts. I will usually set a 2 hour timer
         | while I need to focus.
         | 
         | https://apps.apple.com/us/app/forest-stay-focused/id86645051...
         | https://www.forestapp.cc/
        
           | graeme wrote:
           | It still just blocks everything, right? Like, all or nothing,
           | no way to make a calendar appointment or send a message, but
           | keep web blocked.
        
         | elliekelly wrote:
         | It's not exactly what you're looking for but you might like
         | FocusMate[1] which sets you up with a (mostly) silent video
         | chat partner to work for an hour and then report back what
         | you've accomplished. You won't want to be the dingus who
         | reports back that you've done nothing but screw around for
         | hour. I've found it's helpful in getting me started on
         | something and then once the session is over I'm able to keep
         | going.
         | 
         | [1]https://www.focusmate.com/
        
           | Insanity wrote:
           | Does anyone else have experience to me? It sounds odd to me
           | but might work.
        
         | adav wrote:
         | I use NextDNS on my iPhone to block distracting sites (and
         | privacy stuff etc). It's quick enough to disable briefly for a
         | false-positive but annoying enough to stop me mindlessly
         | browsing Hacker News on the toilet all day...
        
           | graeme wrote:
           | Thanks! Is that something you have to configure on a mac/pc?
           | I see no website blocking options on iphone.
           | 
           | Edit: nevermind, found it. You configure a custom id on their
           | site, then enter that in the app
           | 
           | There aren't any scheduling features, correct?
        
         | eloff wrote:
         | I tend to use /etc/hosts to block sites on my desktop, like
         | YouTube or HN. YouTube DNS itself is somehow special because it
         | stays cached for new browser windows. So I further cripple it
         | with ublock origin by disabling JavaScript.
         | 
         | I can undo these things easily enough, but it's sufficient that
         | my monkey brain can't just open a tab and go there without my
         | conscious permission ( which disturbingly is how habit forming
         | these sites are for me.)
         | 
         | I keep them available on my mobile, but I have an old, slow
         | phone and I never keep it on my desk, I put it out of reach and
         | with notifications on silent.
         | 
         | For things like Facebook and Instagram my solution is simply to
         | delete my account and never let that abomination steal precious
         | minutes of my life. I don't miss them at all.
        
           | dllthomas wrote:
           | I use a tiling window manager called ratpoison. Much like
           | tmux or screen, there is a single key that says "I am talking
           | to you, WM" and then the next key is looked up in a key map.
           | 
           | Something I've done is bind a key that changes my top-level
           | key map to a pared down version that only has meta, a command
           | to tell me the time, access to my music controls, and a way
           | back to my main key map. Of course I can still get to
           | anything on my computer with just a little effort, but the
           | additional friction is sometimes useful for staying on task.
        
           | rement wrote:
           | PSA: /etc/hosts does not work on Firefox unless you turn off
           | the "DNS over HTTPS" setting [0]. Spent a good hour trying to
           | figure out why Firefox was ignoring my /etc/hosts file one
           | day.
           | 
           | [0]: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-dns-over-
           | https
        
             | eloff wrote:
             | Thanks for the tip.
        
           | baby wrote:
           | I do the same, but recently I've tried something else that
           | actually works! I turn the Wi-Fi off on my laptop. It's such
           | a stupid trick, as I can just turn it back on, but it usually
           | is enough of a friction to make me think twice "wait, am I
           | ready to procrastinate?"
        
             | eloff wrote:
             | Yeah, that's a good one. I need constant internet access
             | for my work though (software engineer) for slack, for
             | testing, for docs, so it wouldn't work for me.
             | 
             | Anything that introduces enough friction that you stop and
             | make a conscious decision will do the job.
        
               | baby wrote:
               | I need this as well but I try to get that stuff offline
               | so that I can stay productive as long as possible without
               | needing to go back online.
        
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