[HN Gopher] Bastion Fort
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Bastion Fort
Author : ferros
Score : 51 points
Date : 2020-09-12 16:07 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
| xlance wrote:
| Fredrikstad, Norway:
|
| https://www.google.com/search?q=gamlebyen+fredrikstad&client...
| dang wrote:
| If curious see also
|
| 2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19061690
| Chris_Newton wrote:
| Also from 2018
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18482590
| gnatman wrote:
| Fort McHenry- Baltimore, MD
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_McHenry
| api wrote:
| Is this why the Pentagon is a pentagon? I always thought it was
| to contain the lloigor to prevent it from assimilating souls.
| edoceo wrote:
| When it was built we (USA) also had five branches of service:
| Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force & Coast Guard.
| mulmen wrote:
| This is commonly repeated but is completely false. The
| Pentagon was completed in 1943 but the Air Force didn't exist
| as a separate branch until 1947.
|
| I can't find any evidence that the Coast Guard was ever
| headquartered in the Pentagon.
| edoceo wrote:
| Yea, thanks! I heard it once on a tour of DC. A bit more
| history I learned today from here:
| https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-
| institution/why-p...
| mulmen wrote:
| > During World War II, messengers traveled the hallways
| by bike or roller skates.
|
| Amazing.
|
| If I ever gain the ability to time travel I'm taking
| roller blade technology back to the 1940s to see what
| effect it has on the war effort.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| No, Bastion forts are not convex polygons like the Pentagon,
| they are concave because the concavities create kill zones
| where the fort can fire at attackers from the sides as well as
| the front.
|
| The Pentagon is an (irregular) pentagon because of the roadways
| surrounding the site when it was selected.
| bryanlarsen wrote:
| The original chosen site was on Arlington Farms and was
| pentagonal. The current site wasn't, but they (mostly) kept
| the original design.
| User23 wrote:
| It's definitely to keep him from getting out. We're very
| fortunate that only the outer pentagon was broken 19 years ago.
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm
| CameronNemo wrote:
| related:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_denial_weapon
| Animats wrote:
| The history of warfare has gone back and forth between offense
| and defense being stronger. In the castle era, defense was
| stronger, which led to military and political strong points. But
| a castle can't project power very far, at best half a day's ride.
| Hence, strong barons, weak central governments.
|
| Better cannon changed that, and gave the attacker an advantage.
|
| Still better artillery and fortifications, plus heavy machine
| guns, gave the defender the advantage again, resulting in WWI,
| which was stalled with everyone in fixed positions for some time.
|
| Then came tanks, and offense started beating defense again.
|
| Arguably, guerilla warfare has given defense an edge again. It's
| a defense based on hiding and disappearing into the general
| population, but a defense nevertheless.
| ranc1d wrote:
| Think this was posted before but the French military are building
| these today
|
| https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/35863/the-french-army-...
| azepoi wrote:
| There are loads of bastion fortresses in France thanks to this
| guy:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastien_Le_Prestre_de_Vauban
| JoeDaDude wrote:
| If your flight lands on the right runway (27R) at Philadelphia
| International Airport, you will get a close up view of Fort
| Mifflin, a bastion fort dating back to 1771 which took part in
| the Revolutionary War.
|
| https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Fo...
| gatvol wrote:
| Cape Town, South Africa, 1679 -still used in part as a military
| base. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_of_Good_Hope
| gatvol wrote:
| https://www.google.com/maps/@-33.9261109,18.4279941,373m/dat...
| ForHackernews wrote:
| The _trace italienne_ also features prominently in the novel Wolf
| in White Van: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/26/books/wolf-in-
| white-van-b...
| kgwgk wrote:
| Again? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24249220
| cbanek wrote:
| I absolutely love military history, and it's interesting on how
| much I find it relates to other parts of life.
|
| It was just this week I was explaining to my therapist the
| concept of "Defense in Depth" and how that relates to trust,
| friendship making, security, life opsec, work opsec, work, and
| making reliable systems.
|
| The geometry in particular I always find to be interesting, since
| a lot of it is about reacting to life (both animal and human) and
| the natural shape of the terrain. Things like how animals hunt,
| or where they like to nest. Where and how colonies are
| established, etc. Covering distance quickly and secretly, and
| being able to see others coming. Protecting resources like food,
| water, or crypto keys.
| doukdouk wrote:
| They are still in use, see this [0] French FOB in Mali
|
| [0] https://i.redd.it/f325vekqsxh51.jpg
| Waterluvian wrote:
| I love reading about these designs but I find the Wikipedia
| articles don't do a great job explaining the logic behind the
| geometry. I assume it has to do with maximizing what your cannons
| can see while minimizing flat-on surfaces for their cannons to
| strike?
|
| But then there's probably some tactical reasons too like how the
| emplacements on the points of the star forces enemy engagement to
| take place a certain way.
|
| All guesswork. Any good links or videos that really do a good job
| explaining the why?
| andrenotgiant wrote:
| There's a good history stackexchange answer on the topic.
| https://history.stackexchange.com/a/35726
|
| > Bastion forts are designed to enable enfilade (or flanking)
| fire: shooting on the line of attackers from the side,
| significantly increasing firing efficiency of the defender.
| bob1029 wrote:
| If you think about it abstractly, all of these approaches are
| effectively increasing the surface area of the fortification
| without substantially increasing its internal area. This
| increases the number of positions from which defenders can
| operate, while simultaneously decreasing the effectiveness of
| any particular attack.
| Someone wrote:
| If you build a round tower or a circular fort (which is optimal
| in both area/wall ratio and strength) (edit: or use any other
| 'locally convex' layout), attackers who manage to sneak up to
| the wall at a location where there isn't any opening in the
| wall (i.e. most places) can hack away at the wall relatively
| (they may still be hit from above, but even that may be
| limited, depending on the design of the wall) unimpeded, as
| nobody shooting projectiles out of the fort can hit them. So,
| such attackers could work for days or even weeks to bring down
| part of the wall.
|
| These designs are such that, wherever attackers are standing
| near the wall, there's a position inside the fort from where
| one can hit them, often from both sides.
|
| You also don't want you projectiles, aimed at attackers, to hit
| and damage your own wall.
|
| Projectile range and rate of fire mean one cannot simple scale
| up a smaller design to make a larger one.
| tgb wrote:
| After clicking a few linkd deep, I too would like a video link
| showing not just this fort design but the development through
| history of these. I couldn't figure out the distinctions
| between this and star forts and polygonal forts and the
| differences of Vauban's attack plan versus what is used against
| polygonal, etc. Any video recommendations?
| nemetroid wrote:
| Gothenburg, Sweden, was built as a bastion fort [1]. When the
| fortifications were removed in the early 19th century, large
| parts of the ramparts were converted into a public park, which
| still surrounds the city center[2].
|
| 1:
| https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6teborgs_bef%C3%A4stning...
|
| 2:
| https://www.google.com/maps/@57.7036863,11.9640366,2382m/dat...
| fanf2 wrote:
| Also true for Utrecht in the Netherlands. They have just
| finished restoring the moat that goes around the inner city
| where the fortifications were. For several decades part of the
| moat was converted to a motorway.
| https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2020/09/09/cycling-around...
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(page generated 2020-09-12 23:00 UTC)