[HN Gopher] New Steve Jobs recordings from the '80s released
___________________________________________________________________
New Steve Jobs recordings from the '80s released
Author : mindcrime
Score : 230 points
Date : 2020-09-21 15:25 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.sfgate.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.sfgate.com)
| est31 wrote:
| On a related note, I remember watching shareholder meeting like
| events from Tesla on youtube where Elon Musk admitted that the
| first roadster prototype didn't work and had to be cooled after
| the demo. I can't find it any more. Is this still public?
| [deleted]
| laksdjfkasljdf wrote:
| > "If you want to make a revolution, you've got to raise the
| lowest common denominator in every single machine," [...] "You
| can not use features that are not built into every computer."
|
| * Looks around. See the entire Gaming market and Apple dongles.
|
| Yeah. spot on.
| S_A_P wrote:
| If news orgs are hurting in general why do they insist on
| spending so much money in bandwidth and hosting costs to force
| feed me video that has nothing to do with the article Im reading?
| I suppose this has to generate some sort of revenue stream but it
| is user hostile... I attempted to block the object with uBlock
| Origin which proved unable to do so. I then just went into the
| DOM and deleted the nodes containing the player and that
| instantly caused Firefox to consume mass CPU quantity.
|
| I will say this here, and Im a sample set of 1. I would be 100%
| more sympathetic to the cause of paying for news if I wasnt part
| of the shell game that is click through, engagement, page view
| and ad revenue metrics.
| dewey wrote:
| Anyone else who can't look at the page at all? I get the "Your
| Choices Regarding Cookies" popup but there's no button to confirm
| my choice.
| mindcrime wrote:
| I'm not having that same problem, but maybe try this?
|
| https://outline.com/7fmau4
| dewey wrote:
| Thanks, that works. That's what I saw FWIW:
| https://imgur.com/a/ZeuoQrq
| jkcorrea wrote:
| For those interested, AllAboutSteveJobs.com keeps a pretty good
| repository of Jobs moments. My personal favorite is his 1997 WWDC
| talk [1]. In one talk he demonstrates what it is to be a great
| leader organizationally, publicly, and as a product visionary.
|
| He also opens himself up to harsh criticism from people who were,
| in a lot of ways, rightfully pissed at him. He takes both tough
| questions and ad hominem attacks gracefully and reframes the
| narrative in a positive way without disparaging the questioner
| [2]. To me, this is in stark contrast to the staged events with
| canned/screened questions that most tech leaders run today.
|
| He also lays out much of the vision for products that are still
| being rolled out 10-20 years later. Crazy.
|
| Really recommend watching the full thing if you have time, but
| also linking to a little excerpt from one of the best moments.
|
| [1] (full video): https://archive.org/details/wwdc-1997-fireside-
| chat-steve-jo...
|
| [2] (insult excerpt): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeqPrUmVz-o
| endlessvoid94 wrote:
| You nailed it w/ your comment about how different today's most
| common public forums w/ leaders are run.
|
| I also enjoy how, in that Q&A session, he lays out a ton of
| what Apple would actually release in the subsequent decade.
| tambourine_man wrote:
| I've seen this many times, so great. Imagine Cook taking random
| developer's questions at WWDC today.
|
| In that same year, the famous Gates at the big screen speech.
| The audience was booing. Can you imagine something even close
| to that today?
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxOp5mBY9IY
| egsmi wrote:
| > Imagine Cook taking random developer's questions at WWDC
| today.
|
| Sure. Developers today would ask him about AppStore policies
| and things like that. No one would ask technical questions as
| it wouldn't make sense. And I am quite sure this scene will
| only ever exist in my imagination. :)
| moolcool wrote:
| I could see technical questions being asked about Apple
| Silicon, and other hardware considerations
| saagarjha wrote:
| Craig Federighi gets asked those once in a while.
| charliemil4 wrote:
| And again, there's a powerful way to communicate vision
| fielding the hard questions about the App Store - they are
| perfect opportunities to build a strong community, buying
| into a shared future.
|
| Most people only see App Store fees as a tax -- in some
| cases it really looks like that, but in the bigger picture,
| it's a beautiful example of values codified in a business
| model.
| duxup wrote:
| I think it is ultra hard to really convey the vision for what
| you're doing, what you did, and where you're going to really
| put developer decisions in context.
|
| It's super easy to declare whatever executive to be some evil
| guy because he shot your product down because he killed your
| framework or whatever.
|
| But sometimes these things are painful, but are done for the
| 'right' reasons.
|
| Steve was able to communicate those things, I think most
| folks can't and thus don't.
| jkcorrea wrote:
| For what it's worth, I think Cook is a better CEO for the
| current era than Jobs would have been. He's not a strong
| public speaker, sure, but he's an operator who can execute on
| the vision Jobs laid out better than anyone.
|
| On a personal level he's also a much more
| compassionate/empathetic person which I think plays well in
| the current social climate. I can't imagine Jobs getting away
| with some of his fabled antics today.
|
| Finally, and probably due to the previous point, Cook is much
| more adept at playing the geopolitics game with India, China,
| Trump, etc..
|
| But yes, him fielding random developer questions would be
| awkward at best. Which is why they shoo him off stage in
| favor of Craig/Sruji/some mid-level manager to talk tech
| every chance they get.
| philwelch wrote:
| That all having been said, I am curious how Steve Jobs
| would have handled the recent congressional hearings.
| BurningFrog wrote:
| We'll never know, but I think someone with Jobs' social
| skills would know what he could get away with in 2020, and
| adjust accordingly.
| adaisadais wrote:
| Tim Cook is arguably the greatest managerial operator of
| our times. Without him apple wouldn't have been able to
| scale and refine their businesses processes like they
| needed to reach the $1T mark.
|
| However, I believe it was Jobs who was the catalyst for the
| entire show. He was the spark that the rocket needed.
|
| The company is in an incredible financial position but is
| still vulnerable to the next big innovation. The next
| usurper. The next Black Swan.
|
| Jobs would be so antsy to have something new out at this
| point. And if he had a vision for something- which I think
| he would have Had- he would have made it happen.
|
| Maybe some next great thing will happen for Apple soon? The
| device that cannibalizes the iPhone like the iPhone did to
| iPod.
| imglorp wrote:
| Tim's obviously brought financial success, but where's
| Steve's user experience vision going?
|
| After Steve passed in '11, it seems his idea pipe got
| drained. The watch came out in '15, the earbuds in '16
| (neither earth shaking) and other than that, it's been
| small iterations on the same products for 10 years.
| Where's the new excitement?
| phonon wrote:
| Apple Watch and Airpods are a larger part of Apple's
| business than Macintosh.
| analyte123 wrote:
| Yep, I definitely believe Jobs would have released a
| robot, a hologram machine, a magical glove tactile input
| device, a roomscale collaboration platform, or just
| something, _anything_ besides 100 different variations of
| the iPhone and iPad.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I may be in the minority, but if the Apple Watch had a
| camera, I would leave my phone at home.
|
| But then I'm not one of those guys always staring at
| their phone/watch.
|
| What's the opposite of power user? Old guy, I guess.
| jkcorrea wrote:
| Very true. I think Apple's got another 10 years or so
| until they face this dilemma, so time will tell. Their
| commitment to data privacy really put them at a
| disadvantage in the AI race, but have made great strides
| with federated learning.
|
| And you can see them getting a little scared of this
| coming doom with their commitment to the App store
| monopolistic practices (whether you believe it's wrong or
| not, they really can't afford to cave on this front for
| their long-term sake)
| zobzu wrote:
| I think some of the "fabled antics" are necessary for
| success. Tim Cook simply continue on what's already been
| built and would have to be really bad to really fail in
| that period of time.
|
| In my opinion executive skills are of course needed but so
| are long term high level vision, with strong opinions like
| sjobs had - even if that makes them "less liked"
| ksec wrote:
| >On a personal level he's also a much more compassionate/
| empathetic person
|
| I really dont see any of that. Definitely not to its
| customers or professional users and developers. If anything
| I think these compassionate and empathetic note, the so
| called "enrich" people's live is a recent thing in the past
| 4-5 years.
|
| And personally I have not problem with that statement,
| except until you get caught not doing so people will judge
| you as a hypocrite. And it is exactly the same playbook as
| Google's do no evil. That is why Steve Jobs never talks
| much about any of that ( Despite I think he deeply cares
| about it ) and only talks about building _GREAT_ products
| for their customers.
|
| Steve cares or doesn't cares. You can tell. And he is being
| true to himself. Not the same could be said to Cook. I
| guess that is partly why Tim is an operational person and
| not a product person.
| jjeaff wrote:
| Is Cook more compassionate and empathetic? Or is he better
| at saying things to make him appear that way?
|
| I ask that because I don't know. He does seem empathetic in
| his words. But the actions of Apple (from its production
| processes and sub-contracted systems to its treatment of
| developers and even iphone customers) seem as draconian and
| cut throat as they have ever been.
| philwelch wrote:
| I think the main difference is that Jobs would lose his
| temper and scream at people while Cook is more of the
| quiet, unflappable type.
| DonaldPShimoda wrote:
| When I interned at Apple, every person from the mid-level
| upwards (who had been at Apple long enough) had a story
| of either being subjected to a negative experience at the
| hands of Jobs or else were party to one. Like...
| everyone. He was notoriously asshole-ish.
|
| Cook does not have this reputation. Whether that's a
| persona or the real deal is impossible for us to say
| (I've never met him and I'm not at Apple anymore), but I
| think it's not very useful to think about what he's
| "really" like. We can only see how he presents himself,
| and so far his self-portrayal is significantly more
| positive than Jobs's, regardless of how the company is
| run at a larger scale.
|
| ---
|
| I also think it's impossible to compare Jobs's ethics to
| Cook's ethics by looking at how Apple as a company
| operates. The company has grown immensely in the past
| decade, so I think 2020-Apple can't be compared to
| 2010-Apple in this way. However, we can maybe look at
| Apple's increased commitment to certain real-world
| ethical concerns and stipulate a little bit.
|
| Environmentally, they're 100% powered by renewable
| energy, and they recently announced they want to be 100%
| carbon-neutral by 2030. They have also said they want to
| manufacture new iPhones entirely from old iPhones, which
| would be great.
|
| They're also a leader in consumer privacy and security,
| more than any other company of a similar size.
|
| Then there's the manufacturing stuff. They certainly
| benefit from and make use of unethical manufacturing
| processes, but they seem to be trying to move away from
| that (to the extent that a company that requires as much
| manufacturing as they do can). I believe their chips are
| manufactured in the US (?), and I think they've started
| trying to manufacture certain other things in the US (I
| think the Mac Pro? or is that done with? I haven't
| checked in on it recently). Of course, they've got plenty
| of room to grow when it comes to ethical manufacturing,
| but what I'm highlighting here is that they've made
| _some_ effort to improve as new issues have come to
| light, which can 't be said of all companies with their
| manufacturing needs.
|
| All that said, Apple as a company has plenty of room for
| growth in the ethical sense, but we can at least
| appreciate that these are issues that they address
| explicitly compared to the Apple of the past. As far as
| I'm aware, this has all been done under Cook's
| leadership, so perhaps it reflects on his personal values
| to some extent.
| encom wrote:
| >Environmentally
|
| Bah. Apple makes a product like Airpod which is
| disposable and impossible to recycle. They design their
| products to be impossible to repair, and actually
| sabotage 3rd party repair efforts. Apple does not care
| about the environment _at all_. If they did, they would
| try to keep them out of landfills, make them easy to
| repair and recycle, and not design them to fail.
| agumonkey wrote:
| When I watch these confs and compare to today I see an empty
| pattern. Something's missing.
|
| ps: by that I mean, the show goes on but the soil is dry, I
| don't think the world dreams or needs more digital tech. It's
| ironically in autopilot.
| bpyne wrote:
| Tech as it stands today requires a cognitive overhead that
| I think is wearing down people. It seems like we can make
| more complex software but we can't make it work smoothly.
| People are spending far too much time searching the web for
| tech workarounds and contacting support teams. Tech, when
| done right, should be unnoticed in the background of
| people's minds. It's anything but that right now.
| charliemil4 wrote:
| What's happened is a very, very weird thing. Our
| 'capabilities' with computers have gone parabolic, but our
| personal 'possibilities' have not.
|
| The next great technology revolution will give people
| (developers and consumers) the ability to imagine new
| possibilities. Some would say that requires new hardware
| embodiments (AR/VR), while others would say it's a merely a
| psychological change from the folks who build today
| (FB/Google repenting).
| yellowstuff wrote:
| Bret Victor has captured this really well.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pTEmbeENF4
| charliemil4 wrote:
| Dynamicland is the best form of 'AR' right now. Apple is
| taking a note via App Clips and the physical version of
| that - whatever they call it.
| agumonkey wrote:
| That's true, we're the bottleneck now.. and also society
| got the brakes off on the web. Computing is now a double
| edged sword instead of a fun tool.
|
| I'm not sure AR/VR will make a big diff but time will
| tell.
| reaperducer wrote:
| There should be a betting pool for the month and year the
| first VR pop-up ad scares someone to death.
| mindcrime wrote:
| On the AR/VR note, does anyone know offhand if there's
| any decent "hacker friendly" AR and/or VR hardware out
| there? And by "hacker friendly" I mean "you can develop
| for the platform without having to buy some expensive /
| proprietary toolchain and SDK and need permission from
| the hardware vendor to load apps". Even better would be
| if the device firmware itself were F/OSS, but I realize
| that might be asking too much...
| Impossible wrote:
| Relativity was shared on HN a while ago. I can't speak to
| the quality of the hardware as I haven't tried it, but it
| fits your requirements, partially. For various reasons
| (and please correct me if I'm wrong) all VR compositors
| are tied directly to a store/platform because everyone
| has an appstore in 2020. wxrc (Wayland VR compositors) is
| in development but it looks like it's not quite ready for
| wide usage. That means PCVR is still mostly directly tied
| to Steam and standalone VR is mostly tied to Facebook...
| germinalphrase wrote:
| I am far less technically inclined than most on HN. I
| find the premise of AR to be very exciting, but only if I
| am - as a nontechnical user - provided with tools for
| solving my own problems and augmenting my life experience
| as I see fit rather than merely consuming a series of
| curated experiences.
|
| At the more extreme end, Keiichi Matsuda's
| "Hyperreality"* absolutely is a nightmare. It's not even
| the intensification of media that I find so abhorrent.
| It's the coercion and lack of user agency.
|
| *https://youtu.be/YJg02ivYzSs
| codetrotter wrote:
| Clickable link for the site you mentioned:
| https://allaboutstevejobs.com/
| hajile wrote:
| I've always loved that "insult" excerpt in showing the reality
| distortion field in full sway.
|
| He says he's completely ignorant about the technology. Despite
| the tech potentially being better and him not knowing, he
| sidesteps his ignorance and damns the messenger with faint
| praise "I'm sure you could make some cool-looking demo" before
| moving on to platitudes about "people over tech". By the time 5
| minutes has elapsed, he's mostly avoided the first question and
| everyone has completely forgotten the second question existed.
| setpatchaddress wrote:
| No, RDF was a more intimate thing -- Steve's ability to
| tunnel into your brain through his eyes. No one was intense
| like Steve.
|
| What he was trying to convey here was that you can have the
| best technology in the world, but if there's no purpose for
| it -- if people don't want it -- you have nothing.
|
| OpenDoc and Newton, one of them a solution in search of a
| problem, and the other fifteen years ahead of its time,
| didn't seem like obvious winners to the former NeXT and
| current Pixar CEO. This shouldn't be a surprise.
| KKKKkkkk1 wrote:
| > He says he's completely ignorant about the technology.
|
| Yeah, contrast that with Elon twittering about floating
| floating point [0] and too many zeros in fp32 [1].
|
| [0] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1307822172556193793
|
| [1] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1307822172556193793
| jiofih wrote:
| You may wanna check that mirror of yours, what he's saying
| is correct and nothing out of the ordinary.
| jccc wrote:
| Apple was barely above comatose, running on vapors. The point
| was that even OpenDoc being "better" tech does not
| automatically mean Apple could/should make it into products
| and sell those products to customers. Apple needed to invest
| rapidly diminishing resources into actual products it can
| sell to actual customers that would save the company from
| imminent death.
|
| Whether you like, dislike, agree or disagree with that
| argument, I don't think it can be dismissed as "platitudes
| about 'people over tech.'"
|
| Jobs had to make bird's-eye-view decisions, and articulated
| that point of view pretty well here.
| linguae wrote:
| Agreed. The other serious problem with OpenDoc, from a
| business standpoint, is that it could have alienated big
| software vendors such as Microsoft and Adobe from Mac OS at
| a time when Apple needed Microsoft's and Adobe's commitment
| to providing Mac versions of Office and
| Photoshop/Illustrator. Indeed, they even balked at porting
| their applications to the OpenStep/Yellow Box/Cocoa API,
| which forced Apple to change its Rhapsody strategy and
| announce Carbon in 1998. But OpenDoc's component-based
| software model would have been an even greater disruption:
| Microsoft and Adobe might have balked at supporting a
| platform that would make it easier for upstarts to compete
| by selling components.
|
| There's a nice Hacker News comment that is a repost of
| another comment that describes why OpenDoc didn't fit with
| Apple's business model and how the Linux desktop missed a
| big opportunity by not pursuing an OpenDoc-style approach
| to the Linux desktop in the mid-1990s when KDE was in its
| infancy:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13573373
| bradneuberg wrote:
| KDE attempted to bring OpenDoc-lite style components into
| itself ~2000 with KParts, while Gnome attempted the same
| with the CORBA based Bonobo system at the same time.
| Neither was successful - the true path to inter operating
| compound documents was the Web with HTML and JavaScript
| ultimately, but that didn't start coming into its own
| until about 10 years later.
| philwelch wrote:
| One of the fatal faults of NeXT was that it was built around
| the basic concept of developing cool technology and trying to
| build a product around it. I think in that context, Jobs
| answered the question perfectly.
| nostromo wrote:
| And people watching the video don't realize that the
| questioner was referencing a very rude comment Jobs had just
| made about a team of Apple developers, that had just been
| fired by Jobs, saying they had not done anything for seven
| years.
| jccc wrote:
| Was that mainly a criticism of those developers, or of
| management?
|
| [Edit:] Okay, I see now it's referencing this part that I'd
| forgotten:
|
| "I read these articles about some of these people that have
| left. I know some of these people. They haven't done
| anything in 7 years."
| foobiekr wrote:
| In reality, he would have been in the position to know.
|
| When you leave, you tend to get chatted up by two kinds
| of people - really good people, who want to do something
| interesting, and an army of really bad people, who think
| they can social engineer their way into coasting
| somewhere new that will succeed.
|
| I am certain Jobs had this experience with NeXT.
| Miraste wrote:
| It's a mistake to lump the rest of his response under
| "platitudes." What he's saying there-work backwards from the
| customer experience rather than forwards from the tech-is
| _the_ strategy that took Apple from bankrupt to $2 trillion.
| Technical people dismiss it all the time. If the technology
| is better, the thinking goes, it will win out eventually. It
| 's the thought process that launched the Zune, Windows Phone,
| and decades of attempts at tablets. Apple's entire existence
| is predicated on letting other "clever" companies try this
| and torpedoing them with worse but vastly more usable
| versions of their advanced technology.
| RogerL wrote:
| It's worth pointing out that the question was a pointed
| response to Job's first answer, where he was asked about Open
| Doc. Along the way, Jobs said the people complaining to the
| press hadn't done any meaningful work for the last 7 years.
|
| It's not really a question you should answer IMO. Whether the
| complainers did significant work or not is independent of
| what Jobs did. It's just a dumb 'gotcha' question with no
| gotcha. If the questioner had a legitimate beef with Jobs'
| productivity he could have been specific. And Jobs was
| extremely clear in his original answer as to what he was
| doing - reviewing tech, and 'putting a bullet in the head' to
| tech that didn't fit the overarching goals of Apple.
| klodolph wrote:
| I don't know what your personal experience is with OpenDoc
| is. I've used it, although I was never an OpenDoc developer.
| The developer isn't really asking a question. They're stating
| a challenge in the form of a question. This is something that
| happens here in the HN comments all the time, when people get
| into heated discussions.
|
| If someone asks me a question like that, I sure as hell am
| not going to try and give it a direct answer. The only reason
| the question was asked was to provoke Jobs into a particular
| line of discussion.
|
| Speaking of OpenDoc itself--sure, it seemed tragic when it
| got shut down. But it got completely steamrolled by--well,
| exactly what Jobs said--Java, in its various incarnations.
| The vision of how you combine data from different sources and
| different programs in 1997 onwards and put them in a single
| place is by writing Java apps, possibly some combination of
| web apps and applets.
|
| There have also been some analysis pieces out there on how
| Apple missed out on its potential in the 1990s because it
| didn't embrace networking the way that, for example, Sun did.
| HyperCard, for example, could have been the web or it could
| have been FileMaker or it could have been PowerPoint.
| notafraudster wrote:
| The answer is not perfect -- the questioner might be correct
| that Jobs doesn't have a handle on the tech side of things.
| But I did think that the answer was coherent. He concedes
| that, without going into details, OpenDoc may be the better
| option technically, and surely in a sort of contrived case it
| would be possible to come up with situations where it is. I
| can't speak to the accuracy of the claim given I am not
| familiar with whatever the actual arcane debate was at the
| time, but I immediately infer from context that this is the
| questioner mad that Apple is giving up superior technology in
| favour of broader adoption technology.
|
| Then he says that it's actually not about the tech, it's
| about the extent to which the tech enables a good end-user
| experience. The printer anecdote is imperfect, but it is him
| highlighting a point he referred to many times in his career,
| which is that tech (and especially tech specs) is just a
| means to an end and people just by the end. Like how 3.x era
| Android phones often had more RAM or nominally higher
| clockspeed but were substantially less responsive to their
| contemporary iPhone competitors.
|
| I do think he dodges the second question entirely, but the
| second question is, in so many words, "You suck at your job.
| Care to comment?" so, like, what is the ideal answer to that?
| Crucially, he correctly senses that many in the audience
| empathize with the aggressive tack taken by the questioner
| and he admits that it's a fair tack and he has no real
| defence. If someone tells me "you suck at your job", I think
| I'd be more likely to respond to validate their anger than to
| actually take it to be a factual claim in need of rebuttal.
| If anything I'm shocked that Jobs had the empathy to read
| that correctly.
|
| I don't see it as RDF so much as it is an honest and coherent
| and adequate but imperfect answer.
| ksec wrote:
| And yet 20 years later, even when people watch the video they
| still dont get it.
|
| God I wish this man is still alive, Apple would be so much
| better now.
| StillBored wrote:
| Its vision. He knows what fits in his vision, and he knows
| what doesn't and can name the reasons why not and what it
| would take to make it work. At the same time he can on the
| spot explain it, and if nothing else at least the listener
| understands the reasons, and not just the decision. Its crazy
| refreshing in the midst of soundbites and technology which
| doesn't serve the end user.
|
| Frankly, I think he nails it all in the first couple minutes.
| He's the chief NAK'er. Being able to say "no" is more
| important than yes. Yet so many people are afraid of hurting
| people's feelings or don't have the political will to do it.
| Although at that point in his career it had already bitten
| him once at apple.
|
| Also, can you imagine a current apple employee publicly
| disparaging one of their products like Jobs did the Newton
| and various other things? Take the watch, he might have loved
| it, but I can totally hear him complaining about how it was a
| subpar experience to the iphone, which you have in your
| pocket, cue the speech recognition bit. Also the thinly
| veiled bits about if the clone hardware were actually
| better..
| mrpippy wrote:
| It's a fascinating talk. I've uploaded a much better quality
| version to the Internet Archive (after Apple had it taken down
| from YouTube):
|
| https://archive.org/details/wwdc-1997-fireside-chat-steve-jo...
| imglorp wrote:
| Why would they want it removed? It's free advertising.
| saagarjha wrote:
| Apple frequently takes down older videos for the same
| reason I assume they don't want old iPhone 6 videos
| floating around alongside iPhone 11 ads.
| jkcorrea wrote:
| Ahh that _is_ much better, I 'll update my link. Thanks :)
| Dig1t wrote:
| Ahh what is this website!? sfsgate.com is so horrible. GIANT ads
| everywhere, popups, everything is jumping down as the page loads.
|
| The actual recordings are on Soundcloud here:
| https://soundcloud.com/user-626311220
|
| Please save yourself the pain of visiting this travesty of a
| website.
| [deleted]
| ciarannolan wrote:
| Do you use an ad blocker? Or browse with js off by default?
|
| I do both and this site looks fine, like any other article
| online.
| ehsankia wrote:
| Ads aside, when an article is written specifically about a
| rare video/audio that has been released, I expect it to be
| right at the top and clearly visible. Even with ad-block, you
| have to get past a long intro and dig for that single word
| link in the middle of the article to get to the audio.
| ciarannolan wrote:
| That's true. I've completely given up on watching videos on
| news sites like this for all the reasons you mentioned.
|
| I usually see the headline and go to youtube to find the
| video.
| tambourine_man wrote:
| I think we can agree that one shouldn't need that in order to
| have a decent experience on the web.
| crawlcrawler wrote:
| Yes indeed!
|
| Can we also agree that we don't need JS in order to produce
| a decent experience on the web?
| distrill wrote:
| Not really to be honest. The web does a lot more today
| than just transmit text documents. SPAs are overused and
| generally too bloated, but the idea that JS is not
| necessary (or should not be necessary) is a non starter.
| vaccinator wrote:
| It is pretty rare that a website requires JS for a good
| reason though (from a point of view of someone that would
| ratter not use JS). But many website are completely broke
| when JS is disabled...
| crawlcrawler wrote:
| For a decent browsing experience I'll take a plain ol'
| HTTP POST that causes my browser to reload the whole page
| giving me as a user a clear indication the app has
| understood my intentions (I wanted to submit information)
| over the initial page load time, elements jumping around,
| making me click the wrong element, any day of the week.
| untog wrote:
| I remember when mapping sites worked that way: image in
| the middle. Want to move it to the right? Click the right
| arrow button and the page will reload with the map
| shifted a little.
|
| Compared to Google Maps it was the Stone Age. I get it, a
| lot of sites use an unnecessary amount of JS and bog down
| the user. But there are very clear benefits to having JS
| in browsers.
| reaperducer wrote:
| SF Gate is a newspaper. It's not an interactive map.
|
| Different tasks should use different methods.
| willbw wrote:
| I think you would be in the extreme minority of web users
| there.
| ChickeNES wrote:
| At about 35 minutes in there was a video demonstrating their
| automated PCB assembly line, and luckily it's on YouTube:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSj6kvv7_Sg
| gscott wrote:
| At the very end they simply slide in the motherboard into the
| case. That is the way it should be.
| b0rsuk wrote:
| Seems like Steve Jobs is the modern equivalent of a saint in US.
| klmadfejno wrote:
| Then you've got a bubble to break out of
| Reedx wrote:
| The recordings and actual story:
| https://www.fastcompany.com/90541084/this-unheard-steve-jobs...
| dewey wrote:
| The full story is actually here:
| https://www.fastcompany.com/90541084/this-unheard-steve-jobs...
| coldcode wrote:
| When you listen to some of these early recordings, you realize
| how far ahead Job's thinking was from almost everyone else.
| Then you realize it took him decades to eventually ship these
| things. Despite being often a dreadful person to deal with, he
| was an original thinker who could actually ship things even it
| took most of a lifetime.
|
| I left Apple a year before he came back, I still regret it.
| thu2111 wrote:
| I dunno, I'd be more interested in long-form talks he gave when
| he was older, after he'd rebuilt Apple. Even though I've read his
| biography there's a surprising dearth of information out there
| about topics that seem important, at least if you want to learn
| management skills from his example.
|
| Take the question of how technical he actually was. The famous
| books and movies about Jobs hardly cover this at all. There's not
| even any agreement today about it, look at the contradictory
| answers to this question:
|
| https://www.quora.com/Was-Steve-Jobs-technical?share=1
|
| And I'm always reminded of this story where he asks about the
| light well gathering characteristics of CMOS vs CCD:
|
| https://www.quora.com/How-did-Steve-Jobs-thrive-in-a-technic...
|
| The biographies that are out there are OK as far as they go, but
| they're ultimately made by people who are in love with the idea
| of a humanities student getting rich running a tech company and
| telling those nerds where to go. They don't explore how he was
| able to recruit and keep people with strong skills, how he could
| tell them apart from those who just weren't as sharp. They don't
| explore how involved he was with at the time radical decisions
| like the macOS Aqua UI, merging BSD/NeXT/MacOS Classic, what
| exactly shipped in the first iPhone and so on. I've heard he was
| very involved with all kinds of minor things like the decision to
| keep using Objective-C well past its sell-by date, but again,
| such details come out in scraps here and there.
|
| If you look at other tech firms like Yahoo, after being taken
| over by people without a strong engineering background they went
| into decline and failed. Merely being "not a nerd" is hardly
| sufficient. To match what he accomplished requires skill in deal
| making, recruitment, retention, skills evaluation, technology,
| marketing, etc. Yet this story remains largely untold.
| scarface74 wrote:
| Yahoo was failing when their original founders were on board.
|
| You can listen to some of the old Debug podcasts with Nitin
| Ganatra and Don Melton for some first hand accounts.
| cercatrova wrote:
| I recommend reading a book called Think Simple if you want to
| learn more about Jobs' business philosophy, it's more of a
| discussion of his tactics moreso than a memoir or biography.
| thu2111 wrote:
| Thankyou. I will check it out.
| ksk wrote:
| Well, the other thing is that smart people like Steve Jobs can
| easily learn new skills and acquire knowledge even after
| college. He worked in tech for decades, so I'm sure he's read
| more a few books and/or experimented with tech hands-on :) Heck
| isn't programming one of those skills that we say you don't
| need to go college for?
| reaperducer wrote:
| _experimented with tech hands-on_
|
| And by "experimented," you mean he was employed by Atari as a
| solder jockey and more. The guy knew tech in ways today's
| javascript abstractionists could never imagine.
| ksec wrote:
| Yes. And there was a story [1] about Steve knew something (
| an algorithm? or something to do with Video or colour space
| ) in great detail that he jumped to question how was
| certain problem being dealt with before the Engineers got
| to start his presentation.
|
| And yet people constantly bash Steve Doesn't do any
| programming. I am willing to bet he knows a lot more about
| tech than any of the so called "Software Engineers" today.
|
| [1] Sorry I search for a few minutes and couldn't find
| anything. I remember it was on HN. But all my search query
| failed. So if anyone knows please post the link.
| ksk wrote:
| Your [1] , its here: https://www.quora.com/How-did-Steve-
| Jobs-thrive-in-a-technic...
| thu2111 wrote:
| Which is a link I actually posted in my question, lol.
| ksk wrote:
| Indeed, I thought they might have missed it :)
| lifepillar wrote:
| Seemingly little known fact, at least in this forum, is
| that Steve Jobs authored a fairly technical, albeit
| short, article in the '70s, entitled "Interfacing the
| Apple Computer" [0].
|
| [0] https://archive.org/details/interfacing-the-apple-
| computer
| egsmi wrote:
| > Take the question of how technical he actually was. The
| famous books and movies about Jobs hardly cover this at all.
| There's not even any agreement today about it, look at the
| contradictory answers
|
| I'm not surprised. Is there even agreement on the definition of
| technical? How can we know if anyone is technical, let alone
| Steve Jobs?
|
| Also, his partner was Woz. One has to be a bit more than
| "technical" to have it make sense to take a design from Woz.
| reaperducer wrote:
| _There 's not even any agreement today about it_
|
| There's a lot of revisionist history about whether Jobs
| understood the tech or not. I believe a lot of it comes from
| the later-day Woz worship that's been spreading since Mr. Jobs'
| death.
|
| If you go back and read interviews of the era when Jobs was
| asked technical questions by technical people, he clearly
| understood far more than we give him credit for today.
| pfraze wrote:
| I hear that kind of thing from two types of people:
| nontechnical people who are looking for a contrarian hot-
| take, and technical people who subscribe to the "credibility
| hierarchy" that's correlated to how close you work to the
| metal. They make fun of that nonsense in the first episode of
| Silicon Valley and it's probably one of my favorite jokes in
| the series [1].
|
| 1. https://youtu.be/kXQE2uGnR_U?t=19
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