[HN Gopher] $1 hearing aid could treat millions with hearing loss
___________________________________________________________________
$1 hearing aid could treat millions with hearing loss
Author : gumby
Score : 500 points
Date : 2020-09-24 12:01 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.sciencemag.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.sciencemag.org)
| jononor wrote:
| Based on the MAX9814 chip, which costs 0.75 USD in 2.5K volume,
| leaving 0.25 USD for everything else. The design is not
| integrated much (many connectors), so assembly costs will be
| high. It also requires 2xAA batteries as a consumable, which
| consumer has to pay as well.
|
| So this is not a 1 USD hearing aid in any way. And if current
| units are 500 USD, then going down to 50 or 10 USD would already
| be a huge improvement.
| jlgaddis wrote:
| I'm not surprised that someone who can fit two "AA" batteries
| in their ear has trouble hearing!
| tyingq wrote:
| The pdf shows a MAX98306. Curious where you saw the MAX9814.
| jononor wrote:
| The HearingAid.sch PDF says MAX9814 on the JP1 connector on
| the left side. So are they actually using both?
| anamexis wrote:
| The MAX9814 is the microphone.
|
| Here's the BOM which shows the full breakdown coming in
| under $1.
|
| https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journa
| l... (Table 1)
| tyingq wrote:
| Just the BOM image so it's easier to read: https://journa
| ls.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=...
|
| Also, I'm not sure where he's getting the prices. Prices
| for the MAX98306 and MAX9814 seem higher, even in high
| quantities, than what he's showing.
| kube-system wrote:
| Interesting that they list the cost of raw PLA pellets
| for the "mass production cost" of the 3d printed case.
|
| This is starting to smell like an exercise in making an
| incorrect BOM to justify the result they were looking
| for. Nobody will 3d print you a case for $0.06. If what
| they meant was that they'd 3d print the case themselves,
| then it should be the filament or resin listed on the
| BOM. You probably can get a plastic part pretty close to
| that price, but not 3d printed, it would be injection
| molded.
| dekhn wrote:
| If you read enough of Nature and Science you will realize
| that skilled scientists are practiced in the art of
| misrepresenting many details of their work to get
| published.
|
| Note that the pricing in there is organized around the
| idea of a very massive custom purchase by a large
| company.
| kube-system wrote:
| I don't think there's anything wrong with them citing
| volume pricing per se. You'd expect something like a
| hearing aid to be mass produced.
|
| It's the incongruency of the materials listed with the
| actual materials that would be used in a mass production
| scenario that I find unscrupulous.
| tyingq wrote:
| You can find plenty of these "personal amplifier" devices
| for $15 or so. I doubt they are making $14 on each one.
|
| https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p238005
| 7.m...
| [deleted]
| magicalhippo wrote:
| > The MAX9814 is the microphone.
|
| It's the microphone amplifier. This unit still needs an
| external microphone, as well as headset/plugs.
| Accujack wrote:
| >assembly costs will be high
|
| You read the article and know this is intended for DIY
| assembly, correct? That it's not a commercial product?
| emcq wrote:
| The most accurate description is probably the authors built a
| hearing aid from the 1960s with only $1 today [0]. Its worn
| around the neck, doesn't have any fitting, doesn't appear to have
| beamforming or feedback management, and low amplification.
|
| It turns out these things are all important in clinical outcomes
| for listening comfort and intelligibility. I've built a modern
| hearing aid and done extensive patient testing - the details
| matter and it's not just electrical or algorithm problems but
| tough mechanical and UX challenges to get something more state of
| the art.
|
| While I haven't worn many neck mounted devices, the Bose
| Headphones can get crazy feedback and the feedback path is
| similar. This would cause squealing discomfort for patients and
| everyone around them.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_hearing_aids
| rexelhoff wrote:
| This.
|
| The other issue to contend with in his grandparents demographic
| is the perception of being deaf and being seen wearing such a
| big bulky item. Image consciousness is a large hurdle to
| overcome these
|
| Great ingenuity but commercially it's hard to see it take
| traction
| shae wrote:
| I never wrote part 2 of this blog post, but there's a $300 open
| source hearing aid that can do way more than most hearing aids:
| https://shapr.github.io/posts/2019-08-03-tympan.html
|
| Here's the organization building this thing:
| https://shop.tympan.org/
|
| I'm kinda excited about the four microphone board, where you can
| subtract the ambient noise behind the listener from the noise in
| the direction they're facing.
| newyankee wrote:
| Can i mail you ? Where are you based in ?
| [deleted]
| mothsonasloth wrote:
| Hearing aids are useless for people with tinnitus like my
| grandmother.
|
| The most expensive or cheapest are all the same when you have a
| medium high pitched buzz in your ear all day
| ritchiea wrote:
| Too bad we live in the kind of world where the biggest hearing
| aid manufacturer will read this, raise additional capital, buy
| the patent & rights to the $1 hearing aid and then sell hearing
| aids for $5,000 each they'll bill to medicare and big health
| insurance co.
| pkaye wrote:
| You can already buy cheap amplifiers like this on Amazon.
| GuB-42 wrote:
| Patent this? This is just a microphone, an amplifier and a
| headphone jack. That's the most obvious thing.
|
| There is no real innovation here. The work being done here is
| closer to a market research: find the cheapest components that
| do the job.
|
| Cheap is also its only quality. $5000 hearing aids are better
| in every other aspect. It makes no sense for big hearing aid
| manufacturers to use anything about this design.
| pomatic wrote:
| It does seem like a bit of a missed opportunity - even
| slipping in the most basic ots equaliser or dsp would add a
| minimal amount to the BOM, whilst moving from a late 70s
| format aid to late 80s, albeit in a dated form factor. (Chest
| worn isn't too terrible IME, but expect to replace the
| "wiring harness" to the earphones on a regular basis.)
| tyingq wrote:
| At first, it seemed like a laudable effort. I hate it, though,
| when someone makes a github repo and sticks a single zip file in
| it: https://github.com/bhamla-lab/LoCHAid-2020-PLOS-ONE
|
| So I found the pdf in the zip file where you can see what it is.
| It's a MAX 98306 amp. The only peripherals are the typical filter
| capacitors, resistors, volume pot, microphone, etc. So, it's
| basically this: https://www.adafruit.com/product/987
| dcassett wrote:
| I was surprised to see a git repo consisting of one zip file.
| And that zip file itself contains a zip file.
| magicalhippo wrote:
| Actually it uses two IC's and the more interesting one, in
| relative terms, is the MAX9814[1] microphone amplifier with
| automatic gain control.
|
| I suspect there are cheaper class-D IC's that could be used
| than the MAX98306, but for a prototype why not.
|
| It also puts the volume control potentiometer on the amplifier
| output which seems wasteful for a battery operated device.
|
| [1]:
| https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/products/analog/audio/MAX...
| andai wrote:
| Looks like that's it in the first photo in the article: he's
| holding it in his hands and using earbuds. Presumably it would
| go in a pocket or clip on to your belt.
| vpribish wrote:
| here's a more detailed write-up including pictures of the device:
|
| https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
|
| It's a crude, bulky, ugly, and fragile thing and the $1 price is
| not realistic - but it would be less than $10. It seems like a
| decent product for the poorest places - which is their goal.
|
| The hearing aid biz in the US is glaringly inefficient and
| obviously ripe for disruption - but this product will not do it
| here. There's definitely a demand for hearing aids in the couple-
| of-hundred dollar range that doesn't require audiologist visits
| and insurance hassle - but the entrenched interests will not help
| bring it about.
| jiofih wrote:
| This is basically using academic journals as a marketing
| channel. As someone else linked above, there are tons of
| similar devices available from China, probably even using the
| same chips, at equally low prices.
| pontus wrote:
| With all the advances in tech, why does it seem that hearing aids
| are still from the 80s?
|
| I guess ultimately you're limited by your interface to the brain
| (something maybe neuralink could address?), but even still
| shouldn't there be some "magic" machine learning stuff going on
| in this space? Not at all an expert in audio processing, but I
| would imagine that we could do a decent job distinguishing voices
| from background noise, automatically thresholding sound in
| different environments, and possibly modulating sounds into
| different frequency bands when there are e.g. multiple speakers.
|
| For all I know, stuff like this is already going on.
| red_hare wrote:
| My mother, who's fully deaf in one year and mostly deaf in the
| other, has heavily depended on strong and expensive hearing
| aids her whole life.
|
| Over the years her hearing aids have improved in battery life,
| gotten smaller, and improved in things like filtering
| background noise. Every new hearing aid would start by sounding
| distorted and weird but her brain adapts to the new sounds
| after a couple of weeks.
|
| The single largest life improvement I've seen for her was about
| 10 year ago when she could finally get a hearing aid with
| bluetooth. Suddenly she didn't have to decide between the
| "whistling" (feedback) or not hearing to talk on the phone. We
| got her an iPad and she stopped watching TV almost entirely and
| now watches YouTube and Netflix. And she can do her yoga over
| Skype.
|
| Her biggest challenge, at this point, isn't a hearing aid
| problem but a bluetooh one. Her iPhone inconstantly switches
| between her hearing aid and her Volkswagen (pre-CarPlay).
|
| I agree hearing aids are stuck in the past, but I'm also
| convinced most of the problems are lower hanging fruit than a
| neuralink :).
| jki275 wrote:
| If she likes watching on a TV, the Apple TV can talk to
| bluetooth audio devices. Have never tried it, but it would
| probably be able to talk to the hearing aids directly.
| skybrian wrote:
| These days they are fairly sophisticated; my hearing aids will
| automatically switch between several different programs
| depending on the environment. (It doesn't work how I'd like it
| to, though, so I have a program that I manually set for music.)
| There is also a phone app for adjusting settings, though it's
| limited and buggy.
|
| It's difficult to evaluate hearing aids because they are
| proprietary. Reading about the features in a brochure for a
| hearing aid is like reading the features for a TV set or
| stereo. Who knows what those trademarked terms really mean when
| it comes to how the code works?
| pontus wrote:
| Would be cool to create an open standard and perhaps even
| open source the development. If nothing else, I would imagine
| that there are quite a few hearing impaired engineers and
| scientists out there that would gladly work on something like
| this if it meant that they themselves could benefit from the
| improvements.
| emcq wrote:
| Both https://audatic.ai/ and https://whisper.ai/ are taking the
| ML approach for speech enhancement, and the large companies are
| starting to get on board. It's the future!
| shariqm wrote:
| I agree! We're working on this at AudioFocus (YC S19). You can
| see an old demo here: https://www.audiofocus.io/demo
|
| There are a lot of challenges with putting this in a hearing
| aid: low latency inference (10ms), small power budget,
| consistent performance, fault tolerance, etc. Still a fair
| amount of R&D to be done, but change is coming.
| pkaye wrote:
| How many microphones do you need to do this filtering? I wear
| hearing aids myself and if you can do it that that level on a
| real hearing aid that would be amazing.
| newyankee wrote:
| Is it too difficult to ask for one that distributes the
| processes between phone/external device, rims of glasses and
| in the ear speaker. It will go a long way in addressing the
| issue of stigma and enabling more people to use it early.
| jononor wrote:
| Looks like Chinese manufactures already sell hearing aid devices
| in the 25-50 USD price range.
| https://www.banggood.com/search/hearing-aid.html Unlike the
| device from the article (which would cost more like 10 USD than
| 1), these are rechargeable and fully integrated over-the-ear
| units.
|
| Would love to see a low-cost open/hackable hearingaid/hearable
| though. For example BOM of 5-10 USD. But then it should use a
| reprogrammable chip for the signal processing, so that one can
| make improvements in software. Even the cheapest and simplest
| hardware is harder / more expensive to improve than software.
| newyankee wrote:
| Honestly what is needed is a cheap secondary device like a
| mobile phone which contains a custom designed chip to do
| Machine learning fast on sound and transmit it to the ear. Even
| if this costs 500 $ i would reckon the benefit would be worth
| it. I guess battery technology has advanced to a level that the
| said device can easily be recharged daily or probably swapped
| with batteries if needed.
| sputr wrote:
| Damn that link made me happy. Was wondering if anyone has done
| to hearing aids what they did for glasses.
|
| We just brought my father progressive glasses for 100usd (would
| be 400+usd here at a 'normal' store). Now he needs a hearing
| aid and we're dreading the multi-hundred payment on top of what
| is covered with insurance for a basic device.
|
| So.. What's the catch with these cheap hearing aids? Why would
| we not buy these?
| bagacrap wrote:
| quality? doesn't this question apply to every cheap Chinese
| product? My mom has had poor hearing for decades and always
| spent thousands on her hearing aids for marginal improvements
| in quality (e.g. noise cancelling, size, noticeability). The
| only thing that really made a big improvement was when she
| finally got a cochlear implant.
| criddell wrote:
| > doesn't this question apply to every cheap Chinese
| product?
|
| The question is always valid but the answer isn't always
| the same.
|
| I'm thinking specifically of cheap eyeglasses.I've had
| nothing but good experiences buying glasses that cost
| 10-20% of what I would pay from a local store.
| NonEUCitizen wrote:
| What's a good place for buying these cheap eyeglasses?
| criddell wrote:
| I've only used Zenni Optical. Their glasses start under
| $10 but different frames and different lenses can change
| the price.
|
| My biggest complaint with Zenni is that shipping can
| sometimes be slow. I've waited 4 weeks for glasses to
| show up and other times it's only a week. I think it
| depends if they come from China or their US facility.
| coupdejarnac wrote:
| These are hearing amplifiers, not hearing aids. The
| difference being that hearing aids can boost certain
| frequency bands to compensate for hearing loss at those
| frequencies. The hearing amplifiers boost all the audio
| frequencies in a one size fits all manner. There's no signal
| processing going on. Maybe that is good enough for your
| father, maybe not.
| pkaye wrote:
| I just got myself some Costco Signature hearing aids a month
| ago. Its $1499/pair. Its made by a major manufacturer named
| Phonak. The feature set is close to their top of the line
| model. Half the cost of the hearing aids in the US is
| actually the fitting by the audiologist and they have to pay
| for their expenses. You have to spend considerable time with
| the audiologist to measure, fit and calibrate the device to
| your needs. Costco is able to minimize the cost overhead
| since the office is inside a normal Costco store.
|
| The hard part about hearing aids is making them work in
| noise. You don't want to just amplify everything or you just
| hear more noise. Also you need to tune it to your hearing
| loss otherwise you may damage your hearing. They do things
| like expanding the dynamics or compressing to prevent loud
| noises. They suppress wind noise. They can focus on the voice
| of someone in a group of people.
|
| So the catch with the cheaper hearing aids is that may not
| help help your dad with understand speech as well as a better
| quality one.
|
| I'd suggest you watch the videos of Dr Clif Aud on Youtube.
| He is very informative.
| colejohnson66 wrote:
| Why are multiple audiologist visits necessary? Can't they
| just take a 3d scan of your ear and have a computer decide
| which shape will fit best? I recall when Apple introduced
| the EarPods, they said they scanned thousands of ears and
| derived a shape that would fit the most. So it is
| possible...
| volkadav wrote:
| they have to tune the DSP settings to get the
| amplification et al. profiles to match the patient's
| individual hearing loss pattern. that takes custom
| interface/programmer hardware the manufacturers generally
| only (afaik) give to licensed audiologists as it takes
| specialized education to do this work properly. the ear
| dome/mold bits themselves are a minor component of the
| overall fitting process. (src: been wearing hearing aids
| for about thirty years)
| pkaye wrote:
| I went with standard domes but it took a second visit to
| get the size right since they take time to conform to
| your ears. Custom molds are another option but they told
| it I would get a more plugged up feeling so I stay with a
| more open dome unless really needed. Also there is some
| time for adapting to any changes in settings. They also
| bump up the gain with each visit to reach target levels.
| A big jump might be too much.
|
| I think there is room for optimizing the whole process
| but anything medical related tends to move slowly. I
| still find the phone app a little slow and cumbersome.
| And switching between bluetooth devices is a pain. I wish
| Apple and Google would put more effort in improving that
| aspect.
| [deleted]
| brento wrote:
| I was told I could benefit from hearing aids, but was told they
| would cost $5K to $8K depending on which ones I wanted. I've
| decided for now that I'll put up with the issues associated with
| not having them for now. I was also told they blue tooth doesn't
| work very well if you have an android phone, so I'm hoping that
| there can be some real innovation and competition in this space
| to drive the prices down and also improve the technology!
| mgerdts wrote:
| If you can find your way to Costco, make an appointment with
| their audiologist. The test is free and hearing aids are less
| than $900 each. Follow-up visits are free. You do not need a
| Costco membership unless you decide to make a purchase. If you
| are unhappy with your purchase you can get a refund on the
| hearing aids and the membership.
|
| I believe that most of their hearing aids support bluetooth,
| but only when you get a pair. I only need one, so no bluetooth
| for me.
|
| I've had fittings by two people at Costco. One is an
| audiologist and the other was less credentialed, but I forget
| the title. I could hear better when fitted by the audiologist.
| jki275 wrote:
| This is so true! We were told 8k, Costco got us a top of the
| line set with all of the features the other set had for less
| than 2k for the set. Costco made a customer for life out of
| that deal. They do glasses as well, though I haven't used
| them for that and don't know if the discounts are as good or
| not.
| Hovertruck wrote:
| I don't have any first-hand experience to share, but my wife
| used to work at https://www.audicus.com/ which is a startup
| focused on exactly this problem, in case you're interested in
| further research.
| dhosek wrote:
| That seems really high. I have the fanciest hearing aids that
| Costco sells (rechargeable, Bluetooth, optional external
| microphone) and I spent under $5K on it.
| gedy wrote:
| If you have access to Costco their in house brand is much less
| (~$1600 pair) and good. Also I really like Bose Hearphones
| which work better for me and were $500, assuming you don't mind
| looking like you are on a conference call all the time.
| pkaye wrote:
| I just started using hearing aids and went with the Costco
| Signature. Half the cost of hearing aids is the office
| overheads since hearing aids need significant tuning. Costco is
| able to leverage its existing store overhead to minimize it.
| The Costco ones re made by Phonak and based on the features on
| the Phonak Marvel series.
| netdur wrote:
| Ok I will bit, I want to build this and redistribute in Africa, I
| lack technical knowledge to do this, what is best approach?
| janekm wrote:
| Talk to a Chinese factory on what's the lowest price they'll
| sell you the hearing aids for that they already make at near-
| cost prices. The article is literally a "my first soldering
| project" combining an OTS microphone amp module with an R-C
| high pass filter. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rechargeable-
| Digital-Hearing-Aid-...
| person_of_color wrote:
| Reminds of the clock boy who designed CPUs
| janekm wrote:
| The $1 figure in the headline is clickbait as it's only the
| cost of components for the PCB. Add the PCB + mechanical
| components + battery + plastic enclosure + assembly + testing
| + factory margin + overhead and it would be a miracle to come
| under the cost of existing low-cost hearing aids.
| anamexis wrote:
| That's not true, the $1 figure for all of the parts. Here's
| the original, search for "Table 1" for the BOM
|
| https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journa
| l...
| tyingq wrote:
| The BOM prices are just wrong. You can find the volume
| pricing for the MAX9814 and MAX98306. Those two alone add
| up to more than $1.
| jononor wrote:
| Good luck sourcing 3d-printed casings at 0.06 USD, or PCB
| at 0.05 USD a piece, even in 10k or higher scale.
|
| And of course in addition to the BOM comes production
| costs.
| anamexis wrote:
| The casing is just a rectangular plastic box with some
| holes in it, I'm sure you could get some made at that
| price.
|
| Even if the PCB costs 5x the quoted price, you're still
| rounding down to $1.
|
| That said, I have no idea what production costs are for
| something like this.
| jononor wrote:
| The casing is about 2 hours 3d-printing a piece. That is
| 20'000 printer hours for 10k units, giving a machine-time
| cost of 0.025 USD (including plastic). That is off by a
| factor of 10-100, at least.
|
| For injection molding, one would need to make the molds.
| That would cost probably more than 1000 USD, excluding
| engineering costs (the design is not injection molding
| ready). Amortizing the mold costs over 10k units alone
| would be 0.1 USD per unit. Then comes actually making the
| parts. Maybe 0.5 USD is doable.
|
| I checked an off-the-shelf casing (no custom molds
| needed) it was quoted at 0.20 USD at 1K units - but this
| then needs to be CNC machined on 2 sides to add the
| necessary openings. Probably 1 USD a piece, at the least.
|
| The costs in the scientific article does make any sense.
| It is really sad to see that it gets through peer review
| so easily... I mean OK that the scientist does not really
| know what things cost to produce, but then they need to
| consult someone who does! Ask a manufacturing or even a
| design house for a cost estimate. Quality check your
| numbers at least a little bit.
| jononor wrote:
| I would estimate the PCB costs, excluding Assembly time,
| to be 10x the quoted price.
| janekm wrote:
| I can understand how it may seem that way when a plastic
| takeaway box costs $0.1, why should this cost any more...
|
| The article's cost assumption is just based on the cost
| of the raw plastic material, which is hilarious (3D
| printer time doesn't really come free).
|
| But in more realistic mass production you'd make a mold,
| and the cost of the mold is dependent on how many "shots"
| you want to get out of it. Making plastic parts at the
| cost of takeaway boxes requires expensive high-volume
| molds.
|
| At 10k volume you'd be happy to get the box for $1
| including amortised mold cost (though in reality the box
| could be much smaller, reducing mold & material costs
| some).
| grenoire wrote:
| Step one is to come in contact with an electrical/industrial
| engineer who will be able to assist you in the manufacturing
| aspects.
| pkphilip wrote:
| Talk to someone in Africa who works with repairing mobile
| phones, laptops etc. They will have enough skills to assemble
| such a device.
|
| Recruit one of them or work with of them to make the devices in
| bulk.
| sokoloff wrote:
| Repair and bulk assembly are substantially different
| expertise. Almost no matter how cheap the local labor is,
| doing automated assembly with manual finishing is probably
| going to be way cheaper in China (especially since the supply
| chain for components is well established there).
| aaron695 wrote:
| Say you want a order of 10 million made up for a name brand
| company to a Chinese company.
|
| Send in the plans for them to check. Put on an expensive
| looking logo and paperwork.
|
| Done.
| Jaruzel wrote:
| > _the scientists anticipate that LoCHAid's parts will wear out
| after about a year and a half._
|
| Why would that be, I wonder. Anyone know?
| londons_explore wrote:
| Perhaps the AA batteries need changing that frequently?
|
| Or thats the average time till they get crushed/wet/stood on by
| the user?
| dpweb wrote:
| Unfortunately that $1 aid will cost $1000 when it hits the public
| market. It would be nice to see open source hardware in medical
| devices. And a health/safety approval of the DESIGN. At least
| devices that won't kill you if they fail. So I can build my own
| like I build my own desktop computer.
|
| Buying any Chinese electronics off Aliexpress doesn't excite me
| too much. Generally, they suck.
| ggrothendieck wrote:
| Personal sound amplification devices already exist at
| significantly less cost than conventional hearing aids.
| https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2635618
| https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-personal-sou...
| danjc wrote:
| I get that this product is about super low cost but seems to me
| that with a custom firmware, the AirPods Pro could do a brilliant
| job of noise cancellation and amplification of specific frequency
| bands. Ostensibly, you could even employ some ML to enhance
| clarity of spoken words, etc - like Krisp
| caymanjim wrote:
| This is not a $1 hearing aid and never will be. The material cost
| of almost any device is insignificant compared to the overall
| cost of manufacturing, testing, and distributing it. The barrier
| to low-cost hearing aids in most countries is medical regulation
| and liability coverage, not expensive parts. Maybe India's
| regulations are lax enough that someone could bulk-manufacture
| cheap, poorly-tested medical devices to get the price down to a
| few dollars, but there's no technological breakthrough in this
| "new device" that would enable that; if there were a viable
| market, it would already be manufactured. There's no profit to be
| made, so why would anyone bother?
| paulcarroty wrote:
| > if there were a viable market, it would already be
| manufactured. There's no profit to be made, so why would anyone
| bother?
|
| Big market, not super-complex tech, it's only matter of time
| when cheap solution comes.
| markc wrote:
| >There's no profit to be made, so why would anyone bother?
|
| Really dude?
| jiofih wrote:
| > if there were a viable market, it would already be
| manufactured
|
| Yup.
| https://m.aliexpress.com/wholesale/hearing+aid.html?channel=...
| joerango wrote:
| I wonder how different it is from something like this:
| https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pocket-Hearing-Aid-Sound-Voice-Ampl...
| [deleted]
| ajnin wrote:
| So this is a very simple circuit. Basically a microphone
| amplifier directly connected to some earphones with a volume
| knob. No frequency control of any kind. I'm wondering why this
| sort of device is not already available like loupe type glasses
| that we can easily find. I'm thinking this has something to do
| with legislation and maximum allowed earphone sound levels? Or
| maybe it is too crude to be actually useful?
| janekm wrote:
| It is available, even as in-ear style "hearing aid", for <$10
| from the usual factories. I gather it's a little problematic
| selling them in the US due to medical device regulations...
| pkaye wrote:
| You can choose among hundreds of cheap "hearing aids" on
| Amazon.
| coupdejarnac wrote:
| They can be sold here, but they can't be marketed as "hearing
| aids" afaik.
| subhashp wrote:
| My mother has been wearing Hearing Aids for over 20 years. These
| days she has trouble with hearing what is on TV even with a
| powerful hearing aid. Most times she just sits quietly in front
| of the TV watching moving pictures.
|
| I have always wondered why it is so difficult to make hearing aid
| which can be connected to a bluetooth enabled TV or Mobile phone,
| so senior citizens can watch TV or talk to their loved one.
| Whatever is available on the market is so expensive.
| jaclaz wrote:
| Well, my mom has one of those.
|
| They are actually two pieces, one is a match-box sized thingy
| that can connect to Bluetooth devices and that she wears around
| her neck that transmits to the devices in her ears and also has
| a microphone, it is very handy as she can easily answer the
| phone by pressing a button on it (leaving the telephone in the
| bag, it works as hand-free) and it also has two buttons that
| can regulate the volume of the hearing aids (the volume of her
| hearing aids can be regulated also through a teeny-tiny button
| on the back of the hearing aid, right hand one up, left hand
| down, but she simply cannot find/push them properly).
|
| We got the above first to better adjust volume and for the
| telephone use, then she started getting issue with the TV and
| we bought the following.
|
| Then there is a small transmitter connected to the TV that can
| link to the matchbox-like device (that has a fourth button to
| connect/disconnect to the TV device), it has both RCA plug and
| an optical input.
|
| She is very, very happy of this setup for the TV, much more
| than what she had before (wireless headphones).
|
| Prices are steep, to give you an idea, if I recall correctly:
|
| hearing aids EUR 2,500
|
| neck matchbox-like thingy EUR 250
|
| TV transmitter EUR 300
| pomatic wrote:
| They do come up on ebay - I got the tv link for my cochlear
| implant for PS30. Yes, I was lucky. I assume it was a
| deceased estate sale, and I'm grateful for their
| consideration. A charity shop specialising in recycling of
| this kind of tech would fill a definite gap in the market.
| pkaye wrote:
| There are bluetooth enabled hearing aids. Also you can get
| normal headphones with bluetooth capability. I have 60dB
| hearing loss and use the bluetooth headphones from time to time
| both with and without my hearing aids.
| patorjk wrote:
| As an aside, there's a lot of exciting regenerative work going on
| related to hearing at the moment. Sometime soon we may no longer
| need hearing aids. There are some neat drugs either in clinical
| trials or about to begin clinical trials that will re-grow hair
| cells and broken synapses in the cochlea (ex: FX-322, OTO-413,
| OTO-6XX).
| volkadav wrote:
| wow! ah, other than naive googling on those drug candidate
| identifiers, are there any sources you'd recommend to read more
| about this?
|
| (I have a genetic condition that tl;dr impacts hair cell
| substrate material leading to hearing loss by early teens.
| Being able to hear natively again would be ... words fail me.)
| snegu wrote:
| Are any of these supposed to work on congenital hearing loss,
| or only when hearing loss is caused by damage/age?
| newyankee wrote:
| In theory i believe if regeneration of cells is involved it
| should work with congenital but i guess there might be other
| complexities that might be involved (not a medical
| professional).
| ygjb wrote:
| It depends on the nature of the hearing loss, for example,
| FX-322 and OTO-6XX appear to work by triggering regeneration
| of hair cells, while OTO-413 appears to work by triggering
| regeneration of synaptic connections (both of which are
| probably egregious oversimplifications because I am a
| security nerd, not a medical researcher :P)
| xtracto wrote:
| I am closely following FX-322, but mostly for tinnitus. I do
| have hearing loss, but it is that disrupting so far. But the
| tinnitus is something I could definitely live without.
| newyankee wrote:
| Any other clinical trials that you can recommend ? Has the
| path from clinical trials to commercial launch shortened ?
| newyankee wrote:
| Stefan Heller from Stanford's lab had set a goal somewhere
| around in 2010 to cure hearing loss by 2020 by trying to
| convert stem cells to hair cells. I have never heard of any
| breakthrough. I hope this happens in 10 more years at least.
| patorjk wrote:
| This is similar to how Frequency's FX-322 drug works. It
| stimulates progenitor cells [1] within the cochlea to divide
| and form new hair cells. From what I've read, progenitor
| cells are basically one step away from a stem cell.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progenitor_cell
| newyankee wrote:
| thanks, looks interesting. I hope these are only first
| steps to more interesting developments.
| biggieshellz wrote:
| A few notes here:
|
| * This is intended to treat presbycusis, or old-age hearing loss,
| where the highest frequencies are lost first. It would not be
| effective for noise-induced hearing loss, where the frequencies
| around 4 KHz are lost first (the "s" and "f" sounds in speech).
| This matters in the low-income countries it's targeted for,
| because occupational health is not as strict and PPE is not as
| widely utilized, so people are more often exposed to damaging
| levels of noise at work.
|
| * It does not handle loudness recruitment, a common effect of
| damage to the outer hairs in the cochlea which causes loudness
| perception to become non-linear. Someone with a moderate hearing
| loss would hear an 80 dB sound as just a few dB softer than
| someone with normal hearing, but a 40 dB sound as many dB softer
| than someone with normal hearing, and a 20 dB sound as not
| audible at all. So if you do what this hearing aid does and boost
| it all by 15 dB, the 20 dB sound becomes barely audible, the 40
| dB sound is perceived as "about right", but the 80 dB sound is
| perceived as nearly 95 dB (really freaking loud). You have to
| have some non-linear compression in there to adjust for this, and
| not just overall -- it needs to be per frequency band
| (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bark_scale) to match the way the
| ear works.
|
| * Another commenter mentioned that the "bandwidth to the brain"
| is not available. That's only true in the case of damage to the
| inner hairs of the cochlea. What's more common is damage to the
| outer hairs, which amplify the sounds, and that can be
| compensated for with a hearing aid.
|
| What we really need is a common way to program a hearing aid, so
| we can have apples-to-apples competition. Right now, when you go
| to the audiologist, you get an audiogram, which tells you the
| minimum threshold of sound that you can perceive at each
| frequency band. But beyond that, there are proprietary
| adjustments for compression, noise reduction, profiles for
| different types of loss, and so forth. It's not like getting
| glasses, where your prescription fully defines the lens, and you
| can take it to any vendor and have them make it for you.
|
| Edit: If you're really into this stuff from a technical
| perspective, http://refined-audiometrics.com/wordpress1/ is worth
| a read -- it's a project by an engineer who experienced a hearing
| loss later in life who has built a software system to make music
| sound right for him again, basically building a "super hearing
| aid" running on a desktop CPU to do more fine-grained processing
| than what is possible within the power budget and form factor of
| a regular hearing aid.
| jerome-jh wrote:
| 15dB amplification is very little. A 15dB hearing loss can really
| go unnoticed. It may help a few people, however this will never
| be a medical device mainly because it has no medical use.
| HashingtheCode wrote:
| $1 hearing aid costs about $20...... what?? Clickbait.
| rini17 wrote:
| Hearing aids (nor cochlear implants, for that matter) do not
| "restore hearing", except for light hearing loss. They are only
| like crutches (not even wheelchair). For example, to follow
| conversations or phone/skype with multiple people is very
| exhausting even with fancy device, because in most cases the
| "bandwidth" to the brain just isn't available.
|
| That said, the hearing aids vendor lock-in is really atrocious
| and can use a disruption. They don't like users configuring the
| aids themselves, you are expected to make appointments with
| audiologist - in fact several of them because every hearing loss
| is different and it's hard to exactly measure, so usually the
| aids won't fit on first or second try. The algorithms are
| strictly proprietary - when there's 40dB difference between
| responses to different frequencies such as I have, usual
| equalizer won't do. To enable bluetooth the rule is to buy
| expensive add-on streamer.
| darkmoney007 wrote:
| DIY Hearing Aids is on the rise because of this.
|
| It's more accessible now than before.
| ampdepolymerase wrote:
| For a few dollars more it is possible to put a FPGA with
| perhaps a neural accelerator on it. It may tremendously
| simplify some of the DSP stack. More importantly, there should
| be a full-proof app or UI to allow the user to tune the hearing
| aid appropriately (or coupled with a training course for
| audiologists in the targeted regions to do so).
| KSteffensen wrote:
| Hearing aids are tremendously constrained with regards to
| power and mechanics. There is no way you will be able to get
| an FPGA in a hearing aid. An FPGA runnning complex DSP
| algorithms will:
|
| 1. Get hot. I don't want a +60C FPGA in my ear.
|
| 2. Eat up the battery. The batteries are small and fiddly to
| replace for an 85 year old with bad eyes and arthritis in the
| fingers. They should last for at least a week before needing
| replacing. No they are generally not rechargeable in the
| device. That would require a connector, which takes up
| precious volume. Wireless recharging requires a coil with the
| same problem.
|
| 3. Take up way too much PCB real estate. They are just too
| big to fit in your ear. Sure, you can run a wire to a box
| outside the ear, but that messes with the fashion statement.
| Most hearing aid users want small and discrete, so the world
| isn't reminded they have a disability.
|
| Besides, why would you put an FPGA in there? Hearing aids
| already feature some of the most high-grade low-power DSP
| ASICs available, custom made for that companys DSP
| algorithms.
| boogies wrote:
| > a connector, which take up precious volume. Wireless
| recharging requires a coil with the same problem.
|
| Couldn't a "connector" just be a tiny gold contact to meet
| another in a charging cradle/case like a smart watch or
| wireless earbuds? Would that be too big?
| etskinner wrote:
| More than just a connector, it also needs a charging
| circuit, which would also take up space.
| boogies wrote:
| Does that charging circuit need to be inside the hearing
| aid, and not in the charging cradle/case/dock thing?
| ygjb wrote:
| Generally, yes. The circuitry for power does more than
| charge the battery, it provides power regulation to
| prevent over discharge and reduce the likelihood of short
| circuits (among other things)
| loa_in_ wrote:
| About the precious volume and heat - the technology still
| seems very unimpressive given we have wireless earbuds in
| stores. Mounting something behind the ear doesn't seem very
| extravagant these days and vendors only profit from this
| forced conservative approach because it smothers any
| potential competition that thinks it has to be this way.
| magnetic wrote:
| There are trade-offs.
|
| Behind the ear is great when you still have reasonable
| hearing in a good chunk of the spectrum, so the dome from
| the BTE provides the boost that is additive to the
| natural signal.
|
| Wireless earbuds' counterparts in the hearing aid world
| are called "in ear" or "in canal" or "completely in
| canal" or "hidden", and they provide some benefits, but
| do have a couple of drawbacks: they can often give the
| impression of a plugged ear because they keep the natural
| signal out (exacerbating tinnitus, which is common with
| hearing loss), and they can irritate the ear canal from
| all the friction (that part of our body is very
| sensitive). They can also prevent the natural outflow of
| cerumen (wax) and cause its accumulation.
| DanBC wrote:
| Yes. Plenty of people prefer behind the ear devices
| because they are either rechargable, or brightly
| coloured. Young people in particular benefit from being
| able to chose an aid that's brightly coloured, and you
| see some YP modify their aids with skins or stickers.
|
| Here's the colour range for one modern aid:
| https://www.fmhearingsystems.co.uk/PDF/FocusColours.jpg
|
| Rechargable: https://www.phonak.com/uk/en/about-
| us/rechargeable-technolog...
| mdw wrote:
| Having a brightly coloured hearing aid as an adult
| doesn't look professional. Are these marketed towards
| younger people?
| ygjb wrote:
| This is your opinion. In many parts of the world,
| criticizing a piece of accessibility equipment as
| unprofessional is likely an HR violation, and probably
| grounds for termination.
| lostlogin wrote:
| It is and you are correct. It's not unreasonable for
| someone to want a more neutral colour if that is their
| preference though. Some HA users are self conscious and
| hide that they are wearing them.
| dhosek wrote:
| As an adult, I want a brightly colored hearing aid. I
| don't care about hiding my disability--in fact I'd rather
| it be difficult for others to ignore--and I want it to be
| easy to find if my kids knock one out of my ears which
| happens less now that they're six but still happens.
| libraryofbabel wrote:
| Why not? People wear brightly colored jewelry or
| "statement" eyewear in a professional context all the
| time.
|
| Are you saying that it's "professional" to hide your
| disability if you have hearing loss? If so, then I
| strongly disagree. It's a personal choice.
| nicoburns wrote:
| Indeed, to make an even more direct comparison: brightly
| coloured glasses are very common these days. They seem to
| be treated like neckties: it's acceptable for them to
| standout even in very formal situations.
| csunbird wrote:
| is it possible to use the users phone for those
| calculations ?
|
| Think about a dumb hearing aid, with a microphone and
| bluetooth connection, which is able to connect to any
| compatible phone and phone does the processing.
| coupdejarnac wrote:
| Easier said than done. I developed a hearing aid app for
| iOS.
| ampdepolymerase wrote:
| Realtime audio is tricky without hardware acceleration.
| Someone wrote:
| A recent smartphone has enough hardware for that, I would
| think, and if it hasn't, but the idea made sense, it
| would be added. If the hardware can power a GPU and a
| million-pixel display, it can power quite a beefy DSP,
| too.
|
| I would worry about the latency of a round-trip over
| Bluetooth. Google search tells me it's, optimistically,
| 100ms single-trip, so 200ms round trip
| (https://www.headphonesty.com/2020/07/fix-sound-delay-
| bluetoo...)
| pmayrgundter wrote:
| See madspindel's comment above ^^^ about Bluetooth 5.2 LE
| Audio and this:
|
| LE Audio: Announced in January 2020 at CES by the
| Bluetooth SIG, LE Audio will run on the Bluetooth Low
| Energy radio lowering battery consumption, and allow the
| protocol to carry sound and add features such as one set
| of headphones connecting to multiple audio sources or
| multiple headphones connecting to one source It uses a
| new LC3 codec. BLE Audio will also add support for
| hearing aids.
| TheRealSteel wrote:
| Can anyone who knows about Bluetooth comment on why I can
| ping google in 50ms (wirelessly, even), but a Bluetooth
| round trip over a few centimetres takes 2 - 3X that?
| callalex wrote:
| Please don't think of me as an expert, because the sum of
| my knowledge comes from browsing Wikipedia articles. But
| the summary of the issue is that Bluetooth gets all its
| energy efficiency and robustness by constantly scanning
| the spectrum it is to live in, and hopping around
| extremely fast to different slices of channels,
| essentially taking advantage of the tiny "gaps" in other
| signaling protocols that share the same free spectrum. In
| other words it operates on sloppy seconds/scraps like a
| vulture, which means it's timing is very loose and cannot
| provide any guarantees. But it's very low power as a
| result because it almost never has to shout over anyone
| else.
| EricE wrote:
| And wireless introduces significant latency! You don't
| want wireless anything if you can at all avoid it with
| real time audio.
| chrisweekly wrote:
| full-proof -> fool-proof
|
| NOT being pedantic, just trying to be helpful / educational
| (esp given the large % of non-native English speakers on HN)
| ampdepolymerase wrote:
| Sorry the auto correct changed the spelling. I meant fool-
| proof. I am a native speaker.
| SeasonalEnnui wrote:
| Multiple-decades of hearing aid wearing here. I agree with most
| of that. I ended up buying the programmer for my aids to do
| small tweaks (not the prescription/audiogram, just the program
| configuration where you can edit the level of DSP in various
| situations).
|
| I would say that this latest generation of hearing aids (Phonak
| Marvel) is the first generation where I've felt like they've
| got it right. Direct bluetooth connection that _just works_ ,
| and with a very wide range of volume adjustment (older models
| that used add-on streamer would not go loud enough). People
| receiving my voice over bluetooth, using the hearing aid's
| onboard microphones, report good sound quality. Magic.
| tobtoh wrote:
| I'm about to trial a replacement for my current HA (about 5
| years old) for the Phonak Paradise (the just released
| successor to the Marvel). The bluetooth connectivity has been
| a big reason why I want to upgrade - the work from home
| situation this year with constant phone calls and Zoom
| meeting requiring headsets has been a constant annoyance.
|
| I use an Airpod in my right ear and leave one HA in my left
| for those situations - but its fiddly and annoying to keep
| switching things in and out. The new IOS14 feature where I
| can tailor the Airpod audio response to my hearing frequency
| loss is simply amazing! However, being able to connect/stream
| audio directly to my HA will be even better.
|
| They are seriously pricey though - cheapest model is Aus$2700
| (US$2000) and the top line model is Aus$8400 (US$5900).
| However, given I feel I got made redundant from a previous
| job five years ago due to my hearing loss (1), I'll basically
| spend 'whatever' to ensure I can hear as easily as possible.
|
| (1) In that job, I was wondering why as the years went on, I
| felt like I was struggling to pickup new concepts or get a
| handle on projects as fast as I used to. I seriously felt
| like I was getting stupider. After I got my hearing aids, I
| realised how much speech I was missing - I was heavily
| relying on lip reading and also using the context of
| conversation to fill in the gaps of words I couldn't hear.
| Which is passable in general conversation - but when managing
| new projects or new technology concepts, you don't have the
| experience to generate the context that fills in the gaps. It
| was literally life-changing when I got my HA. Go an get your
| hearing tested if you ever feel you are even remotely
| struggling with your hearing!
| rajandatta wrote:
| Whats your view of the Phonak aids? As a user, would you
| say they are worth the money?
| jiofih wrote:
| > The new IOS14 feature where I can tailor the Airpod audio
| response to my hearing frequency loss is simply amazing!
|
| What feature is it? Can't the same be achieved with EQ?
| tobtoh wrote:
| https://support.apple.com/en-in/HT211218
|
| I'm not sure ... i was under the understanding the that
| EQ function on iOS only applied to music. I guess the
| other advantage is that audiogram function makes it a
| one-click accurate configuration of the 'EQ' based on a
| hearing test.
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| Wow, I wrote Apple and suggested they do exactly that.
| That this feature isn't part of the "introduction to your
| airpods" stuff is wrong. It should be!
| otoburb wrote:
| And the Phonak Marvel's retail price is north of $1,000 USD.
| Can some of the cost to the individual be defrayed through
| medical insurance in the US?
| snegu wrote:
| My insurance covers hearing aids, but it definitely varies.
| dhosek wrote:
| I've never had insurance cover hearing aids. It's
| criminal that something so essential isn't covered.
| [deleted]
| m0zg wrote:
| I think skype is exhausting not for this reason but because
| algorithms cut speakers out when someone else starts speaking
| for echo and feedback suppression. I wish there was true full-
| duplex mode that assumes everyone is wearing headphones, so
| there aren't any reverberation concerns.
| madspindel wrote:
| It's because it's a medical device. The OTC Hearing Aid Act
| will change that so Bose (and I would guess Samsung and Apple
| in the future) can sell hearing aids directly to consumers.
|
| Bluetooth 5.2 LE Audio will solve the vendor lock-in. So the
| future looks bright for us with hearing loss.
|
| Edit: And with iOS 14 you can use AirPods Pro as hearings aids
| by adding an audiogram to the Apple Health app. Works really
| well.
| [deleted]
| inetsee wrote:
| There is a hearing aid app called Fennex that seems to be
| very highly rated. It works with any IPhone running iOS 11 or
| later (thus less expensive IPhones) and works with any
| Bluetooth earbuds, not necessarily the AirPods Pro (thus less
| expensive earbuds). I have never owned an IPhone, but this
| app seriously tempts me to buy one.
| WrtCdEvrydy wrote:
| iPhone SE locked down to a specific carrier used in A-rate
| (best quality) goes for $50 on ebay. iOS14 is guaranteed to
| work on it for at least one year.
|
| Edit: I am not an Apple guy but needed some cheap AF
| development hardware.
| coupdejarnac wrote:
| I developed a hearing aid app for iOS in the past. You
| might not be happy with the delay that wireless earphones
| introduce.
| Someone wrote:
| Apple already sells a hearing aid that they can't legally
| call 'hearing aid'. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209082:
|
| _"With Live Listen, your iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch can act
| like a microphone that sends sound to your AirPods or
| Powerbeats Pro. Live Listen can help you hear a conversation
| in a noisy area or even hear someone speaking across the
| room."_
|
| It even supports hearing aids (a few? Some? Many? The most
| popular? I wouldn't know). See https://support.apple.com/en-
| us/HT210386
| emcq wrote:
| Unfortunately live listen is more like a replacement for
| remote microphones, not the hearing aids themselves. It
| adds around 70ms latency with a bluetooth headset. This is
| enough to be very uncomfortable. For comparison, most
| hearing aids on the market today have around 8ms of end to
| end latency.
|
| Source: I've built a hearing aid and done extensive latency
| tests :)
| eyesee wrote:
| I have a major hearing impairment in one ear. Using one
| AirPod with Live Listen was completely unusable to me
| because of this latency.
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| Hmm and I also heard John Carmack talking about problems
| with audio latency in conversations. 70ms is a lot!
| coupdejarnac wrote:
| I had a hearing aid app on the iOS app store for a few
| years, and all I got was whinging about my app not fully
| supporting Airpods/bluetooth headphones. I had in the app
| description and on the website recommending using wired
| headphones so there was no delay, but people don't
| understand how things work even when they are told point
| blank. The reason why people don't notice the delay with
| bluetooth devices during media playback is that media is
| delayed to sync with the bluetooth audio. When Apple
| deprecated wired headphones, I called it a day.
| pmayrgundter wrote:
| My gosh, thanks for posting this! It's been very frustrating
| watching hearing loss affect my older family members and
| seeing how bad the hearing aid situation is. The OTC Act +
| the updated Audio spec looks like the right solution!
| tootie wrote:
| Eargo lets you calibrate yourself, but the devices themselves
| are still fairly expensive.
| etse wrote:
| > That said, the hearing aids vendor lock-in is really
| atrocious and can use a disruption
|
| Agreed about the disruption in this space.
|
| > They don't like users configuring the aids themselves
|
| I get the feeling most users don't want to configure the aids
| themselves, and even if they did, wouldn't feel comfortable
| doing it or don't have the ability or audiology knowledge
| needed.
|
| Later on you mention how helping with hearing loss is not quick
| or straightforward, which seems to support that the default of
| encouraging sessions with an expert is right approach, at least
| to start.
| wefarrell wrote:
| Cochlear implants do not "restore hearing" but they do allow
| people who are completely deaf to sense sound well enough to
| understand speech.
|
| That's a huge change in a deaf person's life.
| canada_dry wrote:
| > to sense sound well enough
|
| My understanding is that it's like a low-sighted person being
| able to see _contrasts and outlines_ of things. It 's enough
| to differentiate things, but significantly less than the
| detail of regular ability.
| jonathanlb wrote:
| That could be for Deaf people. I'm a cochlear implant user,
| having been hearing impaired most of my life. Because I
| know what things sound like, I have an advantage over Deaf
| users of CIs. Thus, for me, hearing is like the difference
| between a RAW image or the same image in JPEG with heavy
| artifacting, or like seeing something in 60fps- you know
| what you're sensing, but it's just off a little, but still
| much better than sensing nothing or very little at all.
| noisem4ker wrote:
| There are several simulators on the Internet, so you can
| hear what it sounds like.
| jbarham wrote:
| > Hearing aids (nor cochlear implants, for that matter) do not
| "restore hearing", except for light hearing loss
|
| This claim is totally false for cochlear implants. I am a
| cochlear implant recipient and before the implant I had
| essentially no hearing in my right ear ("profoundly deaf").
| With the implant in my right ear my hearing has been restored
| to 90%+ of normal hearing.
| mgh2 wrote:
| I work on ecommerce, so I often see trendy products being
| marketed: usually sourced from China and hyped to sell at
| 20-50x its price.
|
| I am trying to see how different this device is compared to
| sound amplifiers marketed as 'miracle hearing aids' found in
| any ecommerce site. The last thing HN wants is to fall victim
| to an advertorial disguised as a scientific discovery.
|
| Note: I worked for a company that wrote 'scientific' articles
| like this as landing pages.
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| Yep. I have a pair of fully functional Bluetooth earbuds that
| cost $8 including shipping. It is already possible to make
| cheap amplifying earbuds. The problems are largely
| regulatory. I'm glad someone said the US passed or will pass
| a law that allows earbud manufacturers to sell their devices
| as hearing aids. I found a broken/crushed AirPod on the
| ground and my goodness they pack serious engineering into
| those tiny things.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| This all sounds similar to my experience with CPAP machines.
| Snitch-Thursday wrote:
| TL;DR: someone could make bank selling < 150USD a pop receiver-
| in-canal wireless bluetooth headphones.
|
| This is semi OT. I use a hearing aid every day. the hearing aid
| features are turned off, i just use it for bluetooth streaming
| and phone conversations. it is a receiver in canal hearing aid,
| and I've put a non-occluding ear dome on it so I can hear
| normally with it in, but when I play music, the music just
| arrives in my ear. its also very discrete, people dont notice it
| unless i tell them its there.
|
| Why someone doesn't take a cheap android/iphone bluetooth-
| compatible receiver in canal hearing aid and sell it not as a
| certified hearing device (heck, disable the hearing aid part in
| sw) but as a discrete wireless headphone set is a mystery to me.
|
| Wireless headphones give me earaches with pressure on my ear
| canal, over the ear headphones give me headaches with pressure on
| my ears, then glasses, then skull. Custom in-ear monitors conform
| to my ears just fine but block out most other sound and have
| wires to deal with.
|
| These? I put them in, forget about them for a long time, and have
| sound just floating into my ears when I turn on music.
|
| It's my go-to startup idea.
| DenisM wrote:
| Related to hearing problems there is also a thing called"Auditory
| processing disorder":
|
| _Individuals with APD usually have normal structure and function
| of the outer, middle, and inner ear (peripheral hearing).
| However, they cannot process the information they hear in the
| same way as others do, which leads to difficulties in recognizing
| and interpreting sounds, especially the sounds composing speech.
| It is thought that these difficulties arise from dysfunction in
| the central nervous system_
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_processing_disorder
| artonge wrote:
| The blueprints are hosted on github: https://github.com/bhamla-
| lab/LoCHAid-2020-PLOS-ONE
|
| Edit: there is also a video showing the building process:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0gnbOJ3nDo
| anamexis wrote:
| And the original scholarly article:
|
| https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
| Abishek_Muthian wrote:
| This is nice, I was looking at this problem a while back and was
| wondering whether implementing sound amplification features on
| cheap TWS earphones can solve that[1], of course it wouldn't be
| $1 and I wonder whether the latency of BLE would defeat its
| purpose.
|
| [1] https://needgap.com/problems/22-enabling-hearing-aid-
| feature...
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2020-09-24 23:00 UTC)