[HN Gopher] Metal Spheres Swarm Together to Create Freeform Modu...
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Metal Spheres Swarm Together to Create Freeform Modular Robots
Author : headalgorithm
Score : 51 points
Date : 2020-10-31 15:37 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (spectrum.ieee.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (spectrum.ieee.org)
| jugg1es wrote:
| Is it using an electromagnet? or is it moving a permanent magnet
| around inside?
| utexaspunk wrote:
| It looks like a permanent magnet:
| https://spectrum.ieee.org/image/MzcxMTU3OA.jpeg
| wintorez wrote:
| I have a hunch that we will discover (not invent) the strong AI
| not in Neural Networks, but in Swarm logic. Infinitely complex
| systems can emerge from simple units multiplied exponentially. I
| still can't stop being amazed by crazy thing they have discovered
| in Conway's Game of Life.
| [deleted]
| abeppu wrote:
| This is an interesting direction. But what is the critical
| attribute of a swarm that would give rise to strong AI?
|
| The argentine ant supercolony is an enormous swarm, but we
| don't really expect to be able to have a conversation with it,
| or see it deal with abstract concepts, but they can solve lots
| of local approximate optimization problems.
|
| Slime molds are single cells but you might think of them as a
| swarm of nuclei and organelles that can solve hard optimization
| problems when in the right form, but again they don't seem like
| a general intelligence.
|
| Is the missing piece that swarms must be of agents with certain
| properties? Or that the interactions between the members of a
| swarm need to have some specific properties?
| wintorez wrote:
| One more thing, I think the viability of communicating with
| an intelligence of a different kind is still an open
| question. It's speculated that intelligences that are too
| different in form or quantity might not be able to
| communicate with each other at all.
|
| Likely the most probable scenario of our contact with
| extraterrestrial intelligence is they will completely ignore
| us, and will not attempt to communicate, or even if they
| attempt to, we will not perceive it as communication.
| 6510 wrote:
| Communication needs to have purpose. Negotiating some kind
| of trade seems the way to go. We can provide ants with
| unimaginable "wealth" and they have unique skills that
| could be useful to us. Just not useful enough for us to
| make the effort?
| wintorez wrote:
| What I wanted to suggest is even if this communication is
| possible. This question has been the main theme of two of
| Stanislaw Lem's books, "His Master's Voice" and
| "Solaris".
|
| Essentially, an intelligence can be so alien that the
| concept of communicating with it would be impossible.
| 6510 wrote:
| Between the nodes and in their configuration [by lack of
| vocabulary] something like an n dimensional ink blob arrises.
| If this just happens to map reasonably to some n dimensional
| problem and the parameters of the swarm can be tweaked
| (evolve) to better map to it you can have logic with few
| moving parts. A simple example would be to first place the
| sugar pot in random locations until it ends up next to the
| coffee machine from where it migrates to the coffee table.
| The bags of sugar (to refill the pot) move around similarly.
| wintorez wrote:
| I was on the same opinion as well. But I would like to
| borrow form Conway's Game of Life. The initial rules are
| simple, and to the untrained person, it just creates random
| blobs that disappear after a while. But then we have things
| like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2vgICfQawE
| bonestormii_ wrote:
| The interesting property is embedded in the parent's use of
| the word "emerge" I think. It is the property of emergence
| that takes swarms of ants and forms an organized colony, or a
| network of nerves that creates intelligence.
|
| I think it's something along the lines of.... randomized
| interactions of entities, constrained only by the attributes
| of the entities.
| wintorez wrote:
| One thing that makes me think that is possible is Conway's
| Game of Life. The rules are simple, and on the face value,
| doesn't create anything exciting, but then we have this:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2vgICfQawE
| wintorez wrote:
| You raised some very valid questions. I'm speculating here,
| so take my answer as sort of sci-fi premise. I think as the
| internet and IoT grows, it becomes more decentralized, it
| will be come unfeasible for all these nodes to communicate to
| some central nodes (i.e. servers), so we will move toward
| automated peer-to-peer communication, with some simple
| routing and optimization rules.
|
| These of these nodes automatically detect, connect, and
| communicate with the nearest node. Think of it as bluetooth
| vs wi-fi hybrid of the future. The aim is to make a more
| resilient internet by eliminating single points of failure
| (i.e. AWS servers down), but the end result will be some sort
| of rudimentary network, that will lead to "emergence" of some
| sort.
|
| I just realized I've been describing "Edge computing".
| theamk wrote:
| I cannot imagine this happening in the world we live in.
|
| I would not my IOT lightbulb (or worse, a camera) to
| communicate with my neighbor's house -- there are
| significant availability, privacy and security concerns.
|
| The same way, I remember seeing lots of open WiFi networks,
| twenty years ago... and now they are virtually gone.
|
| Instead, it would be still centralized servers, but with
| more reliability -- think fiber + 5G backup at home, and
| multi-region/cloudfare workers approach in the cloud.
| sadness3 wrote:
| There are precedents for this type peer-to-peer
| operation, where inherently limited protocols achieve a
| subset of functionality with acceptable privacy
| implications. For example, videogame distribution clients
| which download using a torrent-style process.
| Shared404 wrote:
| I believe there is an option to download/upload Windows
| updates in the same way.
| wintorez wrote:
| I really don't think we get to decide if we allow this or
| not. A company like Cloudflare or any other edge
| computing provider is easily in the position to make this
| happen, for completely innocent and valid reasons.
|
| What I'd like to emphasis is what I'm suggesting will be
| the unwanted side-effect of this type of peer-to-peer
| communication.
| navaati wrote:
| If that happens, it'll be so far from human intelligence, and
| thus probably terrifying !
| wintorez wrote:
| My guess, which reads more like sci-fi than anything is, the
| strong AI will emerge as a side-effect of IoT communicating
| with each other. Once the number of connected things hits a
| critical mass (I'm talking about billions), it will happen.
| baxtr wrote:
| That my friend sounds very similar to a famous movie from
| the 80s!
| wintorez wrote:
| Which one? :)
| tobr wrote:
| There are already many billions of devices connected to the
| internet.
| wintorez wrote:
| We're still a few iterations away from what I call the
| primordial network that could lead to that. We need some
| sort of automatic peer-to-peer communication between
| nodes, that is not in place yet, but I'm guessing will
| become norm in the future to solve a different problem.
|
| I think "Edge computing" is taking us to that direction.
| carapace wrote:
| Yes, and instead of small metal spheres you make big geodesic
| spheres that are also kites!
|
| (Cf. Alexander Bell's kites & Bucky Fuller's geodesic mega-
| structures.)
| sadness3 wrote:
| This seems too complex, too prone to failure, and too difficult
| to keep powered. I imagine the first industrially viable modular
| robots will be solid-state, with a mains power supply which is
| able to connect ambiently or arbitrarily. Power distribution
| circuits will be dynamic, and the abundant power will be used to
| control multiple electromagnets per module.
| 1over137 wrote:
| Reminds me of the bitbots in The Dervish House by Ian McDonald.
| mleonhard wrote:
| Would holes in the steel reduce the magnetic properties very
| much?
|
| Holes could enable sensors, charging, and optical communication.
| For inter-node communication, radio signals can conduct between
| the shells and would be far more robust than optical. But optical
| would be more resilient against interference, jamming, and
| eavesdropping.
| zipotm wrote:
| Looks like an alpha version of Genisys T1000
| zizee wrote:
| Keep iterating on this concept and eventually we'll have liquid
| metal T-1000 like robots.
|
| Makes me wonder if Arnie could have defeated him/it by throwing
| lots of strong magnets into the mix.
| robertlagrant wrote:
| This feels like those little robots from Big Hero 6 made real. I
| love it.
| UnbugMe wrote:
| For me, a yellow devil, ala Megaman came to mind.
| http://shmuplations.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/megaman17...
|
| If they could make it so you could control them as a whole,
| once linked, then they would be getting somewhere.
|
| Maybe have some other RC pieces that are bars and the spheres
| could be the joints. Have it all linked with some IK action.
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