[HN Gopher] Vimflowy
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Vimflowy
Author : smusamashah
Score : 159 points
Date : 2020-11-04 16:48 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (vimflowy.netlify.app)
(TXT) w3m dump (vimflowy.netlify.app)
| basil wrote:
| Some of the most complete Vim keybindings I've experienced in
| something that isn't Vim.
|
| I love that visual character/line/block selection works. It's the
| first thing I test in any kind of Vim emulation.
| St-Clock wrote:
| Didn't read anything at first, just went and
| navigated/manipulated text and it worked as I would expect! This
| is a very nice VIM emulation!
|
| I stopped using workflowy because it did not feel natural to edit
| a large amount of plain text outside of VIM.
| SatvikBeri wrote:
| A similar tool with more features and partial vim binds is
| Checkvist, which I use (www.checkvist.com). I've been happily
| using it for 7 years now.
| awake wrote:
| looooove this. any chance we could express "select inner word",
| for example `viw` or `vaw`.
| Slackwise wrote:
| Eh, I've been using https://quire.io for Flowy-like task
| management for my team and it's been great.
|
| Relevant here as it has single-key shortcuts for actions and is
| an infinitely nested task list, but unlike Flowy, works way
| better for _teams_ , with GitHub integration, etc.
| keorn wrote:
| This post about their GitHub integration makes me chuckle,
| written by someone who heard GitHub is used for "codes":
| https://quire.io/blog/p/Hello-GitHub-We-are-Quire.html
|
| "For some of you, it is difficult enough to keep everyone up to
| date with the tasks at hand. It is even more so when they
| involve codes. Lots of codes."
|
| "refer and trace back between tasks and codes"
| rav wrote:
| Just like any other sort-of-Vim implementation, cw (change word)
| is made to be consistent with dw (delete word), and Y (yank line)
| is made to be consistent with D (delete line). In classic vi,
| these commands are illogical in that cw doesn't eat the space
| following the word like dw does, and Y works on the entire line,
| whereas D deletes only from the cursor to the end of the line.
| The Vim manual states that: If you like "Y" to
| work from the cursor to the end of line (which is more logical,
| but not Vi-compatible) use ":map Y y$".
|
| ...however, I'm used do cw and Y being illogical like that,
| goshdarnit, so when these Vim-clones come along and "fix" it, I'm
| thrown off at every step I take.
| timoth wrote:
| Interesting. I never use Y or D, I use yy and dd which both
| operate on the entire line. I like that they're lower case and
| 'fit' in my mind with their other 2 character counterparts, yw,
| dw etc. (and I use d$ for delete to end of line).
| v-yadli wrote:
| I usually think of cw vs. dw as changing the data in a node vs.
| removing a node (together with its next pointer), in a linked
| list.
| boogies wrote:
| Not _every_ sort-of-Vim implementation (ofc). I use vis1, which
| has the classic cw, but the consistent Y.
|
| And I prefer it the vis way. cw is a binding I use often, and
| more pleasant to type than ce. yy I also use fairly frequently,
| but Y is not much more pleasant, and y$ is much less pleasant,
| and I copy from the cursor to the line end often enough to want
| it to be easy, quick, and feel nice.
|
| 1: https://sr.ht/martanne/vis/
| krick wrote:
| I have absolutely no idea what people are talking about in this
| thread. I never noticed any of this, and even went right now to
| test it on Vim 8.0, and nothing of what you are saying seems to
| be correct. I have quite a big .vimrc, but I don't think I re-
| configured any of this. Maybe all of it applies only to vi, not
| vim?
| darrenf wrote:
| I've never found the cw/dw case illogical. When I'm deleting a
| "word" (in prose or code) it's rarely, perhaps never, my
| intention to leave a double space between the surrounding
| words. But if I am _changing_ one, the likelihood is that I'll
| want to trailing space to remain after I type the replacement.
|
| So whilst I see nothing illogical, I'm in agreement that a
| change to these commands would throw me!
| ysavir wrote:
| It's practical, but it's not logically consistent with what's
| considered a "word" in Vim. "Delete word" and "Delete until
| next word" are two different functionalities, so there's an
| inconsistency when a function shortcut is named to represent
| the former, but behaves like the latter.
| wraithy wrote:
| There's always "ce" (change until end of word), which enables
| the common use case and is also consistent with the rest of
| the vim language.
|
| I wonder why the special case for "cw" exists... I'd love to
| hear the story about that initial decision.
| boogies wrote:
| I'd guess just because cw is much easier/faster to type
| (because c and e are pressed with the same finger) on a
| QWERTY keyboard.
| kps wrote:
| `cw` and `ce` don't do the same thing if you're on the last
| character of the word.
| lol768 wrote:
| This had polluted my browser history to the point I couldn't even
| see HN after a few minutes of expanding bullets and playing about
| with it :(
|
| Why are people so tempted to do this?
| detcader wrote:
| oh man this is nuts. thank you. the copy and settings UI is so
| well done compared to what I see on average! I would pay for a
| browser New Tab version of this (if one doesn't exist already--
| you seem to have thought of everything!)
| jessep wrote:
| Nice! I'm founder of workflowy and this is indeed very cool.*
| I've often thought about a vim-like navigation mode for jumping
| around.
|
| * https://workflowy.com in case you aren't familiar
| bachmeier wrote:
| Your site doesn't provide any information about price or
| features. It just drops a box in front of me to enter my email
| address - not exactly the most effective way to turn me into a
| customer. I might give you my email only to find out that the
| "free" plan is very limited, you lock my data in your garden,
| and upgrading to a real plan is really expensive.
| jessep wrote:
| Yeah, we're going to address this. A/B tests and metrics
| guided us to this (it converts better), and I don't know why
| the minimal-information thing has worked well for us, maybe
| it forces people to try it out. I think some of it has to do
| with the fact that most of it is just word of mouth, and
| probably our attempts at more information weren't well done.
|
| We're working on building a library of examples with video
| and interactive documents that people can play with and find
| from the home page.
| aaron32311 wrote:
| Not the op, but there is a public playground here [1] that
| may help evaluate the app.
|
| https://www.workflowy.com/online-notepad/
|
| FWIW, it takes some getting used to, but redeems itself as
| quite powerful once you get the hang of it.
| alunchbox wrote:
| Amazing work, a little bit of feedback.
|
| * Exiting insert mode has a noticeable delay. * Operating system
| settings for escape (mine is mapped to caps lock) is not working.
| djhaskin987 wrote:
| It reminds me how sad I was to have to ditch emacs (due to hand
| injuries) because I loved org mode so much. I am an avid vim user
| -- it was nearly my first editor -- but I wish something like
| workflowy or org mode could be used in vim. Kinda sad to just be
| using markdown alone.
| anamexis wrote:
| Why not use emacs with vim bindings?
| aidenn0 wrote:
| As someone who uses vim as a daily driver and emacs with
| evil-mode for a lisp IDE and occasional org-mode, biggest
| issue is every new mode you add will either use chording like
| emacs or will need completely new vim-compatible keybindings.
| It's not a _lot_ of work, but it 's enough to say "eh, I just
| won't use that package"
| jascii wrote:
| I can't speak for others, but for me it comes down to work
| flow, vim is always 2 keystrokes away and starts instantly,
| and sane configuration defaults (my definition of sanity
| anyway..) it is available on all hosts I frequent and behaves
| predictably without having to sync extensive configurations.
| thotsBgone wrote:
| For me, emacs is also 2 keystrokes away and starts
| instantly (as long as the daemon is already running). Doom
| emacs has sane (good!) defaults.
|
| My main valid gripe with emacs is the slow rendering
| engine.
| djhaskin987 wrote:
| I'm really good in vim too, though. I like vim. I just wish
| we had nice things in vim, too. Besides, vim bindings is a
| square peg in a round hole. There are edge cases and
| community momentum to think about, all of which run against
| the grain when nonstandard setups are used with anything,
| including emacs.
| jordan_curve wrote:
| As someone who has only loosely dabbled with emacs and org,
| is there a reason that an org equivalent couldn't exist in
| vim?
|
| I know there's vimwiki and stuff but I mean is there a
| reason that the full functionality of orgmode couldn't be
| ported to vim (modulo some keybindings)? Does it really on
| having more control over the UI than just what's available
| in a terminal?
| djhaskin987 wrote:
| I think that full org mode wouldn't work in vim, but at a
| deeper level, it doesn't jive with the "zen" of vim. But
| I'd want a solution that did.
|
| Here's an example. Emacs has SLIME[1], and vim has like
| SLIME for vim[2]. The vim counterpart leaves editing in
| the editor but makes it easy for vim to work with
| terminal emulators to create a great but simple SLIME
| experience. It respects the "zen" of vim. I wish there
| were an org mode equivalent. Will be checking out
| vimwiki.
|
| 1: https://common-lisp.net/project/slime/
|
| 2: https://github.com/jpalardy/vim-slime
| fao_ wrote:
| You might love doom emacs. I've used emacs for 8 years and
| switched in July, and I can see myself using this for the next
| 10 years.
|
| I tried Spacemacs, and the vim integration was so sloppy that
| the first time I tried to install a single package I was dumped
| in with unfamiliar emacs bindings, which I then had to look up
| to even get out of it. The integration in doom emacs is much
| tighter and better fitting.
|
| https://github.com/hlissner/doom-emacs
| bananamerica wrote:
| Doom Emacs is superb :)
| root_axis wrote:
| Cool, but I wonder is key remapping possible? e.g. I use ijkl
| instead of hjkl (because it naturally maps to my wasd and arrow-
| key muscle memory)
| disown wrote:
| > e.g. I use ijkl instead of hjkl
|
| What do you use for i ("insert") then? Personally "hjkl", i,
| esc are the last keys I'd want to remap. Though I hear some
| people like to remap esc to caps lock or even space. But feel
| sacriligious to me.
| root_axis wrote:
| I switched "i" and "h" since "h" is no longer used for
| navigating left in my arrangement (that is now "j" so it
| matches the wasd/arrow-keys arrangement).
|
| For esc I actually use "hh" in quick succession (inoremap hh
| <esc>).
|
| Yeah, it felt a little sacrilegious when I first remapped it
| a decade ago, but ultimately I decided that all that was
| important was achieving the productivity benefits of home row
| navigation and ijkl does it just as well as hjkl but the ijkl
| arrangement was already immediately intuitive to me. For me,
| vim is all about the cumulative benefits of plugins and
| little hacks like this that optimize my workflow in a way
| that aligns to how my brain already thinks.
|
| The main criticism I receive for this setup is that if I ever
| have to ssh into a machine that I don't control, I won't have
| any of my custom settings and fancy plugins, but I'm ok with
| this since my custom vim setup is my IDE and I wouldn't
| expect to have my IDE available in an SSH session if it were
| vscode or webstorm or whatever. Also, it's possible to edit
| files over ssh, and worst case scenario I just temporarily
| switch contexts to hjkl, but in practice I don't really have
| to edit code over ssh.
| dnr wrote:
| Sorry if this is inappropriate, but for people looking for a tool
| like this or Workflowy, I want to suggest Dynalist, which has the
| simplicity of Workflowy but also a bunch more features. Cloud-
| based, always synced, mobile apps, easy sharing, calendar
| integration, etc. I'm a die-hard vim user but I still use
| Dynalist because it's so great.
|
| https://dynalist.io
|
| I'm a paying user but have no other affiliation (ask me if you
| want a referral code though). I just want more people to use it
| so the creators are successful and keep improving it.
| roveo wrote:
| I tried Dynalist and moved back to Workflowy literally a couple
| of days ago. The main problem for me was that you can't link-
| share an arbitrary bullet and it's children -- only the whole
| document. So if I need to share a link, I have to create a new
| document just for this purpose. The one-document model of
| Workflowy just seems more logical and simple. Although the free
| version of Dynalist is more complete/usable, so if you don't
| really care about sharing, it's better (for example, no
| limitation for created nodes per day).
|
| And obviously they are both missing vim bindings, which I would
| LOVE to see.
| dnr wrote:
| That's fair. I recall reading the developers' rationale for
| their decision to do multiple documents and sharing at the
| document level. They argued that it simplified the mental
| model, and I'd tend to agree: when I use shared docs I want
| to be careful with what's private and what's shared, and the
| UI (the document list on the left) make it easy to do that.
| Almost every time I've shared something, it's been intended
| for sharing from the start, so creating a new document is
| natural. (And the one time that wasn't true, cut and paste
| into a new doc was just a few clicks.)
|
| One problem with Workflowy for me was that the mobile app(s)
| were not very good. Dynalist's isn't great either but it's
| better.
|
| Anyway, the products are more similar than they are
| different.
| jessep wrote:
| Our mobile apps have had a major overhaul, you should try
| them again.
| three_legs wrote:
| Yeah I first found Dynalist on HN from a comment like yours
| about 5 years ago! I have so much of my life there
| kartoshechka wrote:
| sorry but i'm using colmak, see you later normies!
| arnklint wrote:
| Whoooaaaaat, finally! The perfect combo of the two best tools in
| the world! :)
| jph00 wrote:
| Very nice! One thing I noticed is that `}` (move-next-sibling)
| doesn't work if the next sibling isn't visible (i.e. if you're
| not showing the parent). I'd like `}` and `{` to work regardless
| of visibility.
| genezeta wrote:
| I guess you must be using key codes from a US keyboard, right?
|
| The problem with that is that when on a different layout the
| _help_ doesn 't really correspond to the mentioned keys.
| mlok wrote:
| I can confirm : lots of things are broken when using an AZERTY
| keyboard.
| demosito666 wrote:
| This is nice vim emulation, but why not take notes in vim in the
| same way? It can do all the same stuff and you don't need to
| leave the editor. vimwiki is never more than three keystrokes
| away...
| llimos wrote:
| This comment _strongly_ reminds me of the now-legendary Dropbox
| one[1]
|
| _For a Linux user, you can already build such a system
| yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it
| locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the
| mounted filesystem. From Windows or Mac, this FTP account could
| be accessed through built-in software._
|
| [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
| bxk1 wrote:
| This comment is also legendary misunderstood. He pointed out
| how trivial the idea was, which of course became a problem
| for dropbox when every tech company implemented it once they
| saw the demand for it and took its marketshare. Nowadays it's
| hard to consider dropbox as anything but a dying product of a
| dying company.
| daemoncoder wrote:
| I've been using The Vim Outliner (TVO) for years now, haven't
| found anything else that works as well for my daily workflow.
|
| https://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=517
| jonahx wrote:
| You can fold but how would you zoom?
| Sodman wrote:
| I've wanted to do something very much like this (vimflowy) in
| native vim for a while, but as a relative vim-noob I haven't
| found a way to do any of the following without going down the
| vim-plugins route:
|
| - Instantly collapsable/expandable lists (I guess maybe vim
| folds by indentation could be used?)
|
| - Open sub-list in new window
|
| - Mark a "task" as done
|
| - Basic text formatting (italics/strikethrough/monospace)
|
| - Easy way to "search everything, show a list of results, jump
| to the context of the chosen result".
|
| In contrast, vimflowy makes all of these quite easy and
| intuitive.
| demosito666 wrote:
| > - Instantly collapsable/expandable lists (I guess maybe vim
| folds by indentation could be used?)
|
| Yes, `set foldmethod=indent`
|
| > - Open sub-list in new window
|
| This is something I'm not sure exists as a ready-made
| solution, you'll have to write a function for that. It's
| trivial for the majority of cases though.
|
| > - Mark a "task" as done
|
| > - Basic text formatting (italics/strikethrough/monospace)
|
| I use vimwiki that has this, there are a lot of other ways to
| achieve the same.
|
| > - Easy way to "search everything, show a list of results,
| jump to the context of the chosen result"
|
| fzf.vim. The above and also supports fuzzy search.
| antognini wrote:
| I've tried `set foldmethod=indent`, but I've found it to be
| _very_ slow and it introduces a noticeable lag when typing.
| WorldMaker wrote:
| >> - Open sub-list in new window
|
| > This is something I'm not sure exists as a ready-made
| solution, you'll have to write a function for that. It's
| trivial for the majority of cases though.
|
| gf (or <Ctrl+W>f for the new window version) could be
| useful for this, if the sublists are separate files:
| https://vim.fandom.com/wiki/Open_file_under_cursor
| fouric wrote:
| Taking hierarchical notes in vim conflates content with
| presentation/representation, which is bad.
| Plugawy wrote:
| We've came around full circle - I made this few years ago
| https://github.com/lukaszkorecki/workflowish
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(page generated 2020-11-04 23:00 UTC)