[HN Gopher] Spying with Your Robot Vacuum Cleaner: Eavesdropping...
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Spying with Your Robot Vacuum Cleaner: Eavesdropping via Lidar
Sensors [pdf]
Author : aleksi
Score : 83 points
Date : 2020-11-18 18:35 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.cs.umd.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.cs.umd.edu)
| denysvitali wrote:
| If only my Roomba was that smart, I wouldn't probably worry about
| eavesdropping: right now it can barely clean my floor and lock
| himself in the bathroom forever.
|
| Jokes aside, which Robot Vacuum Cleaner is equiped with a LIDAR?
| So far the only ones that I've seen barely have a proximity
| sensor, fall sensor and IR sensors . It could be that I've only
| bought and seen the cheapest versions though.
| outworlder wrote:
| > which Robot Vacuum Cleaner is equiped with a LIDAR
|
| Neato, all versions.
| adkadskhj wrote:
| Love my D7. Really helps with a dog being able to easily
| clean the house to pickup bits of paw dirt, grass, debris,
| etc.
|
| Far from perfect, but it makes cleaning the house once a week
| far easier, as the robot does a 90% or even 95% job every
| single day.
| gcblkjaidfj wrote:
| Neato had lidar from day one and launched a couple years after
| the first roomba. then irobot bought them and kinda killed it.
| jsight wrote:
| Neato was never acquired by irobot. The current Neato line is
| actually really good.
| Geeek wrote:
| I don't think this is true, Neato is not owned by iRobot
| zozin wrote:
| Xiaomi has been making Lidar vacuums for 4-5 year now.
| rblatz wrote:
| Shark IQ has a camera. It requires you to have some level of
| lighting in the house while it runs. Otherwise it can't do it's
| smart navigation
| baldeagle wrote:
| Wyze just started to promote one.
|
| https://www.geekwire.com/2020/wyze-releasing-199-robot-vacuu...
| denysvitali wrote:
| Looks cool! Do you know by any chance who are they selling
| the floor map data to?
| kapitalx wrote:
| Some like the deebot even have common household object
| detection in addition to the lidar and can move around them.
| Not sure how well it works in practice.
|
| https://www.ecovacs.com/us/deebot-robotic-vacuum-cleaner/DEE...
| dawnerd wrote:
| Roborock are really nice and not that expensive. I've actually
| been really impressed with just how well it maps the floors.
| The other day I had to clean some cat fur out of it mid cycle,
| placed it in a totally different part of the room that wasn't
| in sight of the dock and it was able to fairly quickly figure
| out where it was.
| piyh wrote:
| I bought an S50 from China and it constantly errors out on
| carpet. It seems to be a common thing, I guess China doesn't
| do full carpet like we have in the US so it's something they
| didn't test for on my version.
|
| The lidar is impressive though. Cleans way faster since it's
| taking efficient paths.
| blablablubblub wrote:
| Here is some overview: https://dontvacuum.me/robotinfo/
| [deleted]
| ramses0 wrote:
| The "Evil Maid" class of attacks have a new vector: "Evil Digital
| Maid/Butler" (assume pervasive, fully compromised electronic
| assistants).
|
| iPhone "Evil Maid" => GPS, Mic, Camera, Digital User
| Impersonation [post social network messages, iMessage, etc.]
|
| HomePod "Evil Butler" => Control HomeKit, Mic, Playback Arbitrary
| Recordings [freeze, this is the police, etc., impersonate a
| significant other]
|
| Roomba "Evil Maid" => Lidar (mm-resolution depth-camera?!?),
| Virtual Mic, Push/Close Doors, Push/Move Objects [tip over a
| table w/ candle]
|
| WiFi Cams "Evil Maid" => Camera, sometimes speakers, sometimes
| motion control
|
| ...if this is how the robot uprising begins, we're a long way
| from Terminators / SkyNet, but easy to see entire classes of
| vulnerabilities which are pretty obvious in retrospect.
|
| If you haven't seen "Enemy of the State" or "Conspiracy Theory",
| they're great movies with a similar premise: "What if 'the
| system' turned against you?"
| germinalphrase wrote:
| I would also recommend "The Conversation" (1974). Not because
| the vision of surveillance is up to date, but because it's a
| much better movie and (sort of) prequel to "Enemy of the
| State".
| staunch wrote:
| This is why I make sure to whisper when entering my 2FA codes.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Are you one of those people who moves their mouth when reading
| silently?
| staunch wrote:
| I think not. But with 2FA codes/phone numbers/IP addresses, I
| tend to repeat back to myself what I'm trying to remember a
| in a melodic way.
| kazinator wrote:
| This is stupid; if I'm going to be able to sneak an entire robot
| vacuum cleaner into the victim's environment, I'm putting an
| actual microphone and even camera in there, and not messing
| around with LIDAR bouncing off vibrating paper cups.
| fmntf wrote:
| The attack presented in the paper replace only the software
| without hardware intervention. It requires someone to MITM the
| robot update service, and that's not impossibile considering
| that someone still delivery software updates via HTTP.
| function_seven wrote:
| The scenario does not involve "sneaking" in a robot vacuum.
| It's just another attack vector to pursue when looking to bug a
| target. Maybe you can't get a 0-day on their Alexas or their
| Nests, but you do have one for their vacuum. You remotely
| update the firmware on the vacuum to exfiltrate the sound that
| way.
|
| Most people didn't realize that the :visited selector
| represented a danger until someone figured out how to get your
| browsing history by abusing it.
| qwertox wrote:
| Who says you get to put a microphone and a camera in there?
|
| You work with what you have. Ideally you'd have a microphone,
| but maybe that robot vacuum cleaner of your target doesn't have
| one. And maybe you also don't have access to other devices
| which have one.
|
| But, TBH, I wouldn't be surprised if today's vacuum cleaners
| have a microphone in them. "For voice commands", you know?
|
| Recently I bought another TP-Link HS110 Wifi Plug, and while
| working on reading it automatically every couple of seconds
| with a Python script, I noticed that a response contained a
| field labeled "mic_type":"IOT.SMARTPLUGSWITCH". "mic_type"?
|
| Some time ago the German router producer "AVM" had to explain
| why their DECT smart-plugs had a microphone in them.
| dylan604 wrote:
| How effective will a microphone attached to vacuum cleaner be
| though?
| function_seven wrote:
| When it's not running? Probably pretty effective. As long
| as it's in the same or a nearby room as the target.
| qwertox wrote:
| With AI probably better, from what the advances of AI on
| image/video improvement have shown.
|
| But a clever hacker would probably drive the vacuum
| cleaner to a better location and then make the "low
| battery" led blink and leave it there ;)
| tim-fan wrote:
| If you're playing around with this, it might help to be root on
| the vacuum. https://github.com/dgiese/dustcloud
| esel2k wrote:
| In reality though I never have my lidar robotvac running when I
| am at home. Even less having a conversation as all robotvac are
| loud. I personally would be still more concern about all voice
| activate device (alexa etc).
| joegaudet wrote:
| Isn't the implication that someone has already compromised the
| robot? So it wouldn't be running necessarily?
| 1-6 wrote:
| Human maid vs robot vacuum cleaner... I'd take my chances with
| the robot.
| whatshisface wrote:
| Vs. pushing a Dyson around.
| silentsea90 wrote:
| Human maid in the western world costs real $$$
| aaron695 wrote:
| Here's a clearer photo of the setup -
|
| https://umd.app.box.com/s/7qkltjg5xs6cpbjllu8fajpelbs736cm
|
| It's interesting work. It's a kinda like finding a really weak
| seemingly impossible to use buffer overflow and now someone has
| to weaponize it and put it into easy to use metasploit to become
| just one of 1000s of things to have available.
|
| Personally I'm surprised all these robots don't have microphones
| yet. Not being able to talk to robots makes them pretty lame.
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(page generated 2020-11-18 23:01 UTC)